The Real Bout FF Special Thread: RANGE Line Shift Counter Chart Part I up!

[Dark Geese]

Okay since we got started with the RB2 thread and things got carried away with RBS in that thread, I decided it'd be best make my own here in FGD also...



Tournament Rules:

1. Everyone is legal except Nightmare Geese

Match Vids-

Geese Tower:

4-15-08:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4985274&postcount=1

Japanese:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMq1vc2oYpY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFSdVZKCwm8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6Ost8kje9Cw

Juarez, Mexico "Juarez, Dojo Series"-

Look up on youtube handle DarkGeeseMexico.

Week of 4-21 to 4-28:

MWC 2k8-

How to pick the hidden characters-

RBS is a very deep game guys..

It doesnt just boil down to Line shift attacks..Real Bout Fatal Fury Special is sooo much more..

I say the top tier at least in America is as follows:


US RBS Tier List..

God Tier and Banned:
Nightmare Geese

S + Class: (courtesy of shinblanka)
1. Billy
2. Sokaku
3. EX Billy
4. Yama



S-
Mai, Krauser, Kim, Duck King

A Class: Everyone else but Cheng

Bottom Tier:
Cheng

Also the line shift system is deeper than in RB2 in this game..

I have a matchup chart you should check as well as other things..

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4560626&postcount=16
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4997118&postcount=39
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=5124726&postcount=82


Speed Line Shift/Counter Chart- (unfinished)
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4983646&postcount=2320

How many Planes are there and how does it work?
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4981171&postcount=2294

RANGE Line Shift Counter Chart:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=5131807&postcount=138
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=5140593&postcount=186
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=5143615&postcount=200
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=5145422&postcount=208

Billy:

What makes him The best in the game?
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4985190&postcount=38
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4985221&postcount=40

Sokaku:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4996478&postcount=34

Josh's Sokaku Unblockable:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=5084803&postcount=61

Joe:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=5084803&postcount=61
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4996478&postcount=34
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=5125004&postcount=84

EX Mary:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=5091486&postcount=69

Mai:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4997186&postcount=40

Why is she S-?
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=5124534&postcount=79

Discuss!!!

-Dark Geese

[Jimmy Bones]

Billy:

What makes him The best in the game?
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4985190&postcount=38
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4985221&postcount=40

Great stuff, DG. But Billy is the best only at this game? Its not the same thing in RB2?

[Dark Geese]

Great stuff, DG. But Billy is the best only at this game? Its not the same thing in RB2?

Billy is the best character in RBS by far..but hes not unbeatable as my chart shows how..you just gotta know the matchups..and people like Krauser vs. Billy and Franco vs. Billy is ALL in Billys favor..some of the worst matchups in the game..

Billy is not nearly as good in RB2..over half the cast in RB2 got butchered severely..so the game feels watered down if you've been playing RBS...
RB2 is still a good game..but if you know your character from RBS..you will notice the severity of the watering down..

Some characters are still good like Mai, but not as good as in RBS, Kim is still good too but not as good as in RBS, characters like Billy and Laurence got the worst nerfing!!!

[Jimmy Bones]

Billy is the best character in RBS by far..but hes not unbeatable as my chart shows how..you just gotta know the matchups..and people like Krauser vs. Billy and Franco vs. Billy is ALL in Billys favor..some of the worst matchups in the game..

Billy is not nearly as good in RB2..over half the cast in RB2 got butchered severely..so the game feels watered down if you've been playing RBS...
RB2 is still a good game..but if you know your character from RBS..you will notice the severity of the watering down..

Some characters are still good like Mai, but not as good as in RBS, Kim is still good too but not as good as in RBS, characters like Billy and Laurence got the worst nerfing!!!

Right i see, i'll do the test. I wonder why SNK doesnt keep the same game experience, i mean the characters, why do they have to be diffenrent in every game? Making them better or worst to make the game better or worst than the other games. I dont get that point. I hope you understand what im saying.

[Dark Geese]

Right i see, i'll do the test. I wonder why SNK doesnt keep the same game experience, i mean the characters, why do they have to be diffenrent in every game? Making them better or worst to make the game better or worst than the other games. I dont get that point. I hope you understand what im saying.

Yeah I understand..but I think to a degree its better..if theres something broken they fix it..

What its strange is when certain characters are top tier or near top tier in every SNK game they are in even AFTER changes..

(See Iori and Kim lol)

The Supreme buddy where you at dude? :wonder:

[Syxx573]

hey houz it goin dood

and lets begin

choose your favorite character

[ThrowTheDice]

hey houz it goin dood

and lets begin

choose your favorite character

Be tuff!

Or be dead, big guy!

[Dark Geese]

LOL yeah the announcer kinds reminds me of what happened in MIRA..

:razz:

edit- Also the first RBS tournament at a Major will be held at MWC end of June!!!!

[MUSOLINI]

the first opponent looks ready to kill.

also, geese is excluded from the tier list i presume? cause he is NR1 by far, even owning billy easily.

what i really hated when i first bought RB2 (when it was just released on the neo) compared to RBS was that even though in the end the game was better, they didn't improve everything. some things where better in RBS, and thats something that shouldnt have been in a true sequel. besides, i remember cursing snk for watering the characters down so damn much. but then again, i was also complaining about why everybody seemed to fight so similarly in RBS, at least that got changed.

p.s. while it doesnt deserve a thread of its own, but maybe we should ad a list of improvements and fuck ups they made going from RBS to RB2 in both the RBS and RB2 thread? theres quite some shit to be said about this.

[Dark Geese]

the first opponent looks ready to kill.

also, geese is excluded from the tier list i presume? cause he is NR1 by far, even owning billy easily.

what i really hated when i first bought RB2 (when it was just released on the neo) compared to RBS was that even though in the end the game was better, they didn't improve everything. some things where better in RBS, and thats something that shouldnt have been in a true sequel. besides, i remember cursing snk for watering the characters down so damn much. but then again, i was also complaining about why everybody seemed to fight so similarly in RBS, at least that got changed.

p.s. while it doesnt deserve a thread of its own, but maybe we should ad a list of improvements and fuck ups they made going from RBS to RB2 in both the RBS and RB2 thread? theres quite some shit to be said about this.

Go right ahead and add that stuff from changes from RBS to RB2 and viceversa in here..I'll archive it post the link you made in the RB2 thread when people ask...

:tup:

Yeah N.Geese is God Tier and banned..he surely fucks up Billy.

[digimonemporer]

Dan which game was it that we played and Mai was pretty broke? Because if it's this one then u already know how I feel about this game....

[Dark Geese]

Dan which game was it that we played and Mai was pretty broke? Because if it's this one then u already know how I feel about this game....

RBS Mai is arguably one of her best forms EVER .. It cant be RB2 and it cant be RB1..this has to be the game.

Maybe Fatal Fury Special but even then Kim is top tier...RBS Mai's top tier hands down. More people than her have abusable stuff in this game..you just gotta think how to get around it..

But as one of the OG Mai RBS players I can tell you theres ways around her...

EDIT- Guys updated first post with two match vids..I will update with some more of me playing when I go to Mexico and MWC...they will be recent..nothing out there of me even touches the surface of how much stronger I am in this game..I'm about 10x stronger than even the most recent vids people have seen...

Also guys there are Wall Breaker comboes in this game people should learn! Also since EX Mary is top tier that confirms that she is a playable character!

-Dark Geese

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

hey houz it goin dood

and lets begin

choose your favorite character

HONK YOU BABY

honestly if i had thought of it back when people still thought aye bay bay was funny i woulda got myself one of those avs with billy sayin HONK YOU BAY BAY

and yes webster this is THAT GAME

[Dark Geese]

Guys yet another reason I just found out why Mai is top tier..

-SHE CAN DO 25-30% GUARANTEED (on one bar that is) OFF A FUCKING THROW!

She has a guaranteed Ultimate Juggle combo off a throw!!! :looney:

EDIT- This only works on the bigguns guys...

I got a practical 90% Dizzy Wall Breaker combo with Mai..wanna see it?? I will also show the Ult. Juggle that works vs. the Bigguns only like Krauser and Bash...

Stay tuned I'm posting the vid up soon!

[Dark Geese]

Here it is..a Practical Wall Breaker 90% combo with Mai in RBS...from me..

Plus the throw combo that works on bigguns..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBK2krB-NVY

No I aint bothering trying to sync the audio..that takes extra time..not worth it right now.

-Dark Geese

[Syxx573]

Best part about the game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA7NkmbvV_E

come back boy

[Dark Geese]

Yeah thats good shit right there without doubt! :tup:

EDIT- Guys I have Sokaku as a backup also in RBS should Mai and Billy not be enough to win me the title...

Heres a reason why..,thought that was sick with Mai? Heres a 100% practical non infinite combo with Sokaku that I am getting ready to put up...

Stay tuned..

Sokaku was severely toned down in RB2..see for yourself with what I am about to put up..this is just ONE way to do it..he has quite a few..

EDIT 2-

Here is my own practical 100% combo with Sokaku..even if I were to not have any meter and repeat the same combo post dizzy its STILL 90% of your health!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weXJVJfZxzg

[Soh]

Guys yet another reason I just found out why Mai is top tier..

-SHE CAN DO 25-30% GUARANTEED (on one bar that is) OFF A FUCKING THROW!

She has a guaranteed Ultimate Juggle combo off a throw!!! :looney:

EDIT- This only works on the bigguns guys...


Mai after the throw can combo her :hcf: +:snkc: and even the S.power (for nearly 3/4 of the yellow life bar) but only on some character.
If we are talking about the same thing i'm 100% sure it works on Andy (so not only on big guys), someone should try that on every character for a complete list...
When the opponent is in the corner even Joe can combo his dp after the multihit throw.

Finally I want to point that the damage taken when the life bar is yellow is MORE than then when the life bar is red.

PS: I'm working on a complete combo video about 100% combos with stun, I'll let you know when it will be finished.

[Jimmy Bones]

EDIT 2-

Here is my own practical 100% combo with Sokaku..even if I were to not have any meter and repeat the same combo post dizzy its STILL 90% of your health!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weXJVJfZxzg

Whoa. If Sokaku can do 90%, Nightmare Geese could do like 110% or something like that, that's why he's banned. Right?

Great Stuff DG.

[shinblanka]

Yo IMO your rankings are not correct lukus.

IMO the only 1 you got right is billy at #1

The ranking imo is the following without using ex characters and N.M. Geese:

1. BILLY KANE- need I say more
2. Wolfgang Krauser- If he had the combo's he would be #1 imo
3. Sokaku- Combo master in rbs. Best downed attack in rbs!
4. L. Blood- has a dodge, long range attacks and easy high damaging combo's
5. Terry Bogard- 2nd best combo master in rbs.
5. Blue Mary- counters good combo's and a great dp, but kinda hard to play with properly.
7. Kim- Damaging Combo's with range, and great anti air
7. Tung Fu Ru- he's better than everyone thinks, but hard to play with correctly.

Mai is not in the top 5 IMO. I use to play this game hardcore back in the day and I use to play with that hoe. Now she has some good shit, but I can't put her above those characters.

I don't count ex characters because you need to do a code to use them. The ranking would be different if you use the ex characters.

[Dark Geese]

Yo IMO your rankings are not correct lukus.

IMO the only 1 you ghot right is billy at #1

The ranking imo is the following without using ex characters and N.M. Geese:

1. BILLY KANE- need I say more
2. Wolfgang Krauser- If he had the combo's he would be #1 imo
3. Sokaku- Combo master in rbs. Best downed attack in rbs!
4. L. Blood- has a dodge, long range attacks and easy high damaging combo's
5. Terry Bogard-2nd best combo master in rbs.
5. Blue Mary- counters good combo's and a great dp, but kinda hard to play with properly.

Mai is not in the top 5 IMO. I use to play this game hardcore back in the day and I use to play with that hoe. Now she has some good shit, but I can't put her above those characters

I saw that tier list back in the day a long, long time ago and on gamefaqs.com but can't necessarily agree with it...

I've seen far too much more so I really cant agree with that tier list...esp. with Mai and Kim...they are far too deadly in the right hands, you are forgetting how potent their line shift attacks are Larry. I own up pretty much everyone on that list except Billy with Mai's Line Shift attacks. (And even Billy I go head to toe with)

EX Blue Mary is better than reg IMO. L. Blood is good, I think he's possibly Bottom S -A Class.. Mai can handle Krauser pretty much the same way Billy can...I haven't finished my matchup chart it would show that Mai pretty much has an advantage vs. Krauser.. Where as Krauser doesnt matchup well vs. Kim, Sokaku, Billy (He loses 9-1 to Billy) either..Mai goes head to toe with ALL OF THEM.. Krauser has more bad matchups also..Mai has very few if ANY bad matchups..her worst being Billy.. (and even then its not a "bad" matchup)

Heres another thing..Sokakus Line Shift Cs in top and Bottom plane OWN KRAUSER..Krauser gets owned up by my Top Tier pretty much...keeping him out of S Class..

I'll challenge anyone in RBS with Mai..

Soh is right though about what he posted..I'm in the process of fully testing the stuff though. I'd say Terry is High A Class..

Kim is better than Terry though..and Blood...

So with that S Class staying the same I will put in A Class:

Krauser, Terry, Blue Mary, Laurence Blood.



So top tier why?

Billy- Best Line Shift attacks in the game, best pokes, easy damage, anti air Pinwheel fire super, safe qcb+b, best spacing in the game, Down+C to qcf+C is good.
Sokaku- Easy 100% comboes, too many options, best pursuit in the game, Excellent Line Shift attacks.
Mai- Safe qcb+C thats abusable, Excellent Line Shift attacks, easy stun 90% comboes, rising flame is good and comes out fast, can combo off a throw vs. certain characters, hcf+c is safe blocked.
Kim- Excellent Line Shifts that beat a lot, P-Power can combo off a Line Shift C (top/Bottom), safe pokes, excellent dive kick off crossup or jumpin attack, qcb+b is safe and abusable off Line Shifts, aerial S power is good, good anti air, good easy ground combo into P Power!
EX Mary- Excellent damage, good mixups, Good damage off a sweep, easy damage.

[Dark Geese]

Mai after the throw can combo her :hcf: +:snkc: and even the S.power (for nearly 3/4 of the yellow life bar) but only on some character.
If we are talking about the same thing i'm 100% sure it works on Andy (so not only on big guys), someone should try that on every character for a complete list...
When the opponent is in the corner even Joe can combo his dp after the multihit throw.

Finally I want to point that the damage taken when the life bar is yellow is MORE than then when the life bar is red.

PS: I'm working on a complete combo video about 100% combos with stun, I'll let you know when it will be finished.

I'll test it when I get home and come up with a full list of who it works on...

This is more of a reason why Mai is top tier guys!!! Shes TOO GOOD..best version of Mai ever!!!!

[Dark Geese]

Whoa. If Sokaku can do 90%, Nightmare Geese could do like 110% or something like that, that's why he's banned. Right?

Great Stuff DG.

Nightmare Geese has about 20-30 something ways to kill you..seriously...hes wayyyy too strong...strongest form of Geese ever...

Hence why hes banned..

[shinblanka]

The good thing about RBS is every character is good and compete imo. I think I can beat anyone with my Tung. Even billy sometimes, but billy is by far the best in RBS not counting the EX characters and N.M. Geese.

[Dark Geese]

The good thing about RBS is every character is good and compete imo. I think I can beat anyone with my Tung. Even billy sometimes, but billy is by far the best in RBS not counting the EX characters and N.M. Geese.

This is the truth..everyone can compete..so though thats my S class...

I think pretty much everyone could fall ranging from A Class to B..

Cheng may be Bottom but thats about it..even then everyone has something as I say..

But yeah I'd put money on a Billy vs. Krauser anyday of the week..Krauser cant do shit vs. Billy...

[shinblanka]

I saw that tier list back in the day a long, long time ago and on gamefaqs.com but can't necessarily agree with it...

I've seen far too much more so I really cant agree with that tier list...esp. with Mai and Kim...they are far too deadly in the right hands, you are forgetting how potent their line shift attacks are Larry. I own up pretty much everyone on that list except Billy with Mai's Line Shift attacks. (And even Billy I go head to toe with)

EX Blue Mary is better than reg IMO. L. Blood is good, I think he's possibly Bottom S -A Class.. Mai can handle Krauser pretty much the same way Billy can...I haven't finished my matchup chart it would show that Mai pretty much has an advantage vs. Krauser.. Where as Krauser doesnt matchup well vs. Kim, Sokaku, Billy (He loses 9-1 to Billy) either..Mai goes head to toe with ALL OF THEM.. Krauser has more bad matchups also..Mai has very few if ANY bad matchups..her worst being Billy.. (and even then its not a "bad" matchup)

Heres another thing..Sokakus Line Shift Cs in top and Bottom plane OWN KRAUSER..Krauser gets owned up by my Top Tier pretty much...keeping him out of S Class..

I'll challenge anyone in RBS with Mai..

Soh is right though about what he posted..I'm in the process of fully testing the stuff though. I'd say Terry is High A Class..

Kim is better than Terry though..and Blood...

So with that S Class staying the same I will put in A Class:

Krauser, Terry, Blue Mary, Laurence Blood.



So top tier why?

Billy- Best Line Shift attacks in the game, best pokes, easy damage, anti air Pinwheel fire super, safe qcb+b, best spacing in the game, Down+C to qcf+C is good.
Sokaku- Easy 100% comboes, too many options, best pursuit in the game, Excellent Liner Shift attacks.
Mai- Safe qcb+C thats abusable, Excellent Line Shift attacks, easy stun 90% comboes, rising flame is good and comes out fast.
Kim- Excellent Line Shifts that beat a lot, P-Power can combo off a Line Shift C (top/Bottom), safe pokes, excellent dive kick off crossup or jumpin attack, aerial S power is good.
EX Mary- Excellent damage, good mixups, Good damage off a sweep, easy damage.

I didn't get my list from gamefaqs. I got my list from playing the game! Maybe I haven't seen a top tier mai yet in RBS.:sweat: I would like to play against one. Matter of fact I think TUNG is waaaaaaaaaaaay better than Mai in rbs or atleast on the same level. I'm willing to put up $50 1st to 5 wins My Tung vs. Your Mai.:karate: ANd i'm not the type to money match, but i'm very sure I can beat mai with Tung.:karate::badboy: Now I am rusty as fuck seeing that I haven't played RBS hardcore in 12 years! But as soon as the FATAL FURY battle archives2 is released I will have enough time to practice for our MM. That if you accept my challenge.:sweat:

..... Krauser gets own by mai.:wtf::wtf: lol ok buddy if you say so.

[Dark Geese]

I didn't get my list from gamefaqs. I got my list from playing the game! Maybe I haven't seen a top tier mai yet in RBS.:sweat: I would like to play against one. Matter of fact I think TUNG is waaaaaaaaaaaay better than Mai in rbs or atleast on the same level. I'm willing to put up $50 1st to 5 wins My Tung vs. Your Mai.:karate: ANd i'm not the type to money match, but i'm very sure I can beat mai with Tung.:karate::badboy: Now I am rusty as fuck seeing that I haven't played RBS hardcore in 12 years! But as soon as the FATAL FURY battle archives2 is released I will have enough time to practice for our MM. That if you accept my challenge.:sweat:

..... Krauser gets own by mai.:wtf::wtf: lol ok buddy if you say so.

I'll accept that MM...DeadlyRave Neo has a potent Tung and he saw if Mai is played played correctly its hard for Tung/anyone to do anything. Sure Tungs got a good Top+C that can beat Billys Bottom+C and other stuff but now I know to look out for that..and what to counter it with.

I will have that matchup dissected to a TEE today.

Yeah man have you tested the Line Shifts?

Krauser has some of the worst Line Shifts in the game due to how long they take to come out.. thus they get stuffed..

Sure Krauser matches up against Mai well in the main plane/regular plane, but loses in Line Shifting to Mai..which is two planes..thus Mai has the upperhand..

Same for Kim and Sokaku...its gonna be really hard for Krauser to deal with them on the Line Shifts..I'll win if anything by TIME OUT.

If I'm playing Krauser I'm staying in the Top/Bottom Planes..thus he loses...

I can play aggressive Mai or turtle Mai as I did many times vs. DeadlyRaveNeo..plus like I say Mais Line Shift attacks are gonna be something hard to deal with for Tung..I'll post up some stuff about that matchup when I get home in a few when I test it..

-Dark Geese

[shinblanka]

I'll accept that MM...DeadlyRave Neo has a potent Tung and he saw if played correctly its hard for Tung to do anything.

Yeah man have you tested the Line Shifts?

Krauser has some of the worst Line Shifts in the game due to how long they take to come out.. thus they get stuffed..

Sure Krauser matches up against Mai well in the main plane/regular plane, but loses in Line Shifting to Mai..which is two planes..thus Mai has the upperhand..

If I'm playing Krauser I'm staying in the Top/Bottom Planes..thus he loses...


Really the worst line shifts? I though chen had the worst in RBS.:wtf: If that's the case I need to see this evil Mai S. you keep talking about!:karate::sweat: After our MM can we run a 1st to 5 your Mai vs. my krauser for casuals. You can put it up on the web if you like! Maybe i'm over rating Krauser and under rating Mai S.:sweat: Only time will tell.:badboy:

[Dark Geese]

Really the worst line shifts? I though chen had the worst in RBS.:wtf: If that's the case I need to see this evil Mai S. you keep talking about!:karate::sweat: After our MM can we run a 1st to 5 your Mai vs. my krauser for casuals. You can put it up on the web if you like! Maybe i'm over rating Krauser and under rating Mai S.:sweat: Only time will tell.:badboy:

Yeah I'll accept it..Cheng, Franco Bash (another 9-1 win for Billy) and Krauser have some of the worst Line Shifts..seriously...they are slow as hell..now sure flatout as I say in the main plane Krauser can give Mai a hard time with fb zoning, Kaiser Wave, command grab, knockdown white tomahawk, crossup body splash..all that stuff..

but once I am in the Top/bottom Plane..you lose all those specials..and the only way to get into that is via Line Shift attacks or getting in the same plane, and once you line shift period you are vulnerable...and in regards to line shift attacks, mine beat his flatout..I've even tested it vs. Boss Krauser...Mine wins EVERYTIME..

So Boss Krauser would lose via Time Out because hed have to block,Break shot or hed get counterhit damage losing to Mais Line Shifts!

[DeadlyRave-Neo]

I'll accept that MM...DeadlyRave Neo has a potent Tung and he saw if Mai is played played correctly its hard for Tung/anyone to do anything. Sure Tungs got a good Top+C that can beat Billys Bottom+C and other stuf but now I know to look out for that..and what to counter it with.

I will have that matchup dissected to a TEE today.

Yeah man have you tested the Line Shifts?

Krauser has some of the worst Line Shifts in the game due to how long they take to come out.. thus they get stuffed..

Sure Krauser matches up against Mai well in the main plane/regular plane, but loses in Line Shifting to Mai..which is two planes..thus Mai has the upperhand..

Same for Kim and Sokaku...its gonna be really hard for Krauser to deal with them on the Line Shifts..I'll win if anything by TIME OUT.

If I'm playing Krauser I'm staying in the Top/Bottom Planes..thus he loses...

I can play aggressive Mai or turtle Mai as I did many times vs. DeadlyRaveNeo..plus like I say Mais Line Shift attacks are gonna be something hard to deal with for Tung..I'll post up some stuff about that matchup when I get home in a few when I test it..

-Dark Geese


you gotta remember when i was playing you i havent played hard core in years in rbs this coming finalround its gonna be different or at evo even.:nunchuck:

[shinblanka]

Yeah I'll accept it..Cheng, Franco Bash (another 9-1 win for Billy) and Krauser have some of the worst Line Shifts..seriously...they are slow as hell..now sure flatout as I say in the main plane Krauser can give Mai a hard time with fb zoning, Kaiser Wave, command grab, knockdown white tomahawk, crossup body splash..all that stuff..

but once I am in the Top/bottom Plane..you lose all those specials..and the only way to get into that is via Line Shift attacks or getting in the same plane, and once you line shift period you are vulnerable...and in regards to line shift attacks, mine beat his flatout..I've even tested it vs. Boss Krauser...Mine wins EVERYTIME..

So Boss Krauser would lose via Time Out because hed bave to block, or hed get counterhit damage losing to Mais Line Shifts!


We will see sir. I'm more about showing more than taking. I can't make it to MWC due to no vacation time.(All used up for FR) Me and the wife might goto vegas for EVO, but I don't know if she wants to spend time around smelly gamers if it's not FR.:sweat::lol::rofl::sweat::rofl:

[Dark Geese]

you gotta remember when i was playing you i havent played hard core in years in rbs this coming finalround its gonna be different or at evo even.:nunchuck:

So you down for a RBS Exhibition at EVO World if we got the time???

Your Tung was good but I got wayyyyyyyyyyyyy more now than I did at NEC8..I'm about 15x better in RBS than I was at NEC8..

So lets do dis!!!

:nunchuck:

We will see sir. I'm more about showing more than taking. I can't make it to MWC due to no vacation time.(All used up for FR) Me and the wife might goto vegas for EVO, but I don't know if she wants to spend time around smelly gamers if it's not FR.:sweat::lol::rofl::sweat::rofl:

Let me know if you're going to EVO World..

:tup:

[Dark Geese]

Just added Tung to A Class in RBS as he is..

[MUSOLINI]

yeah mai can do her spower in RBS after a throw. joe can tiger kick after his multi hit knee grab (not the jumping one you finish with :d: + :snkc:).

also, sokaku has 3 main killer combos.

:snka:, :snkb:, :r: + :snkc:, repeated :snka:, :snkd: combo on, in corner where the bg is knocked over you can infinite.

:snka:, :snkb:, :r: + :snkc:, :qcb: + :snkd:, :dp: + :snkb:, :d: + :snkc:

:snkc:, :snkc:, :snkc:, :d: + :snkc:, :d: + :snkc:, :d: + :snkc:, :r:, :l:, :r: + :snkc: or :dp: + :snkb: into pursuit or special bug of his.

all these are hard core combos taking over 1 bar of life.

also, i wouldn't be forgetting characters with super AA's like terry, kim, andy and joe too fast (kim is a known S character). all 3 of the main characters can do 1 + bar damage from their bnb combos, can combo their ppowers and have great normals and specials. and characters like hon fu and NORMAL marry are killers as well. EX MARY can fuck anybody up with her spower (the best one in the game by far IMO).

all 3 of the main characters have the same starting combo (unless your going for their second combo, in which joes starts with :l: + :snka: into the :snkc:'s and terrys and andys with :df: + :snka: into the :snkc:'s. the combo they all share (along with over half of the cast) is the standard :snka:, :snkb:, :r: + :snkc:, :l: + :snkc: into special.

ending terry's with :l:, :r:, :r: + :snka: into :dp: + :snkb: (wont work on shorties like the chons) or with :d: ~ :u: + :snka: or with his ppower. timing it well will make all 3 geysers hit your opponent.

ending andys with :hcb: + :snkc: or spower or ppower.

ending joes with :dp: + :snkc: into :qcb: + :snkb:. joe ppower combo is with his launcher (:snka:, :snkb:, :df: + :snkc:). also, unlike andy and terrys special combo i listed (the one that doesn't use the back plane), joe can actually make sure some of the hits you perform hits 2 times instead of one. just make sure that you don't push the next button too fast and you'll notice that with some of his hits he hits twice. been too long since i played this, so test it out for yourself.

p.s. a good terry, joe and andy (and kim, but hes known to everybody already) can keep up with anybodys best mai or billy.

also normal mary can own just as hard, and ex mary taks a little more skill but her small combos still do almost 1 bar of damage. not to mention you can pretty much kill anybody after a block with your spower. or just do it while attacking. its too damn good. her ppower combos and works good as an anti air.

id rate any of these characters higher than most others. closely followed by characters like hon fu and bob.

bash can take of 1.5 bar without the use of s or p power but it needs to start with a close hard hit, meaning it still doesn't make him as good as the top tiers IMO. even though he can still pretty much own.

also, krausers ppower can catch you from as much as a 1/4 to almost 1/3 screen distance, furthest reaching grab super in the game. theres too much i can tel you guys about this game, but ill be leaving soon. so another time. though back in 96, i gotta admit this was one of my if not the most fun fighter to play. played it for too damn long (mainly cause RB2 took its sweet time to come out back then).

[Dark Geese]

Excellent post Musolini..funny thing though is I remember a long time ago reading about people saying Joe was bottom tier in RBS....

I didnt agree with that...I think Cheng is Bottom Tier ..

But all of them like Terry, Andy, etc..I believe are A..I will put them there.

This is proof..anyone can compete in this game mostly..so yeah there IS an S Class..but the A Class can compete against them for the most part.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4985274&postcount=1

Updated the tier list..as we can see this is also a pretty well balanced game because everyone can compete!!!

[MUSOLINI]

Excellent post Musolini..funny thing though is I remember a long time ago reading about people saying Joe was bottom tier in RBS....

I didnt agree with that...I think Cheng is Bottom Tier ..

But all of them like Terry, Andy, etc..I believe are A..I will put them there.

This is proof..anyone can compete in this game mostly..so yeah there IS an S Class..but the A Class can compete against them for the most part.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4985274&postcount=1

Updated the tier list..as we can see this is also a pretty well balanced game because everyone can compete!!!

the game is definitely balanced (cept they seem to have forgotten about cheng being in the game, hes basically the opposite of geese's tier, nightmarishly bad). also anybody saying joe is bottom tier is sick in their head. joe is A, better believe that. too bad i cant SHOW it to y'all. only his spower sucks.

also another thing, people with good plane attacks can taken care of by sticking close to them, not to close, but close enough. this way you have more options against characters like billy, though mai with her fast annoying pokes can still be hell. you wont believe how FAR the C attack works on opponents just going to the other plane. attack them and combo with a special or super. having the health in you advantage will make them come to you, instead of turtling.

p.s. ive been looking at a lot of vids lately. seems we (my lil bros and some of our friends) seem to be the only ones playing these fighters (actually all fighters) without time. am i the only one who thinks playing fighters with time kinda sucks. you fight till you die damn it, fuck losing to time.

[DeadlyRave-Neo]

So you down for a RBS Exhibition at EVO World if we got the time???

Your Tung was good but I got wayyyyyyyyyyyyy more now than I did at NEC8..I'm about 15x better in RBS than I was at NEC8..

So lets do dis!!!

:nunchuck:



Let me know if you're going to EVO World..

:tup:

ill be there and we can do this.:rofl:

[Dark Geese]

the game is definitely balanced (cept they seem to have forgotten about cheng being in the game, hes basically the opposite of geese's tier, nightmarishly bad). also anybody saying joe is bottom tier is sick in their head. joe is A, better believe that. too bad i cant SHOW it to y'all. only his spower sucks.

also another thing, people with good plane attacks can taken care of by sticking close to them, not to close, but close enough. this way you have more options against characters like billy, though mai with her fast annoying pokes can still be hell. you wont believe how FAR the C attack works on opponents just going to the other plane. attack them and combo with a special or super. having the health in you advantage will make them come to you, instead of turtling.

p.s. ive been looking at a lot of vids lately. seems we (my lil bros and some of our friends) seem to be the only ones playing these fighters (actually all fighters) without time. am i the only one who thinks playing fighters with time kinda sucks. you fight till you die damn it, fuck losing to time.

So true..I believe attacking till time is up too.unfortunately in tournaments we gotta allow time though..but for MMs/Exhibitions etc I allow my opponent to decide the rules...after all its just between two people.

Yeah how I beat Billy is I dont allow him to distance himself..I stay on him like White on rice..and yeah if health is on my side then with Mai beware... Mai is good up close also..has some normals that have high priority...so I dont mind getting up close and personal.

ill be there and we can do this.:rofl:

Good..we will come up with a time to do it.

Also just added Joe to A...as you all see..the majority of the cast is A CLASS in this game guys...balanced game? I think so.. very broken? I dont think so..

So yes now you all can see why we treasure this game..and when you look at the tier list for RB2 you see not everyone is A..they fall into Mid Tier...

There is no mid tier in this game really...Its either Top Tier, High Tier, or Bottom Tier (Cheng).

[Dark Geese]

Larry I did this just for you and to illustrate a point..Just tested all this..

Line Shift Counter Chart/Matchups Part II:


**Disclaimer- Once again this is assuming both characters do their attacks at the same time, what the results are-

Mai vs. Tung
-Mai's Top+C beats Tungs Bottom+C.
-Tung's Top Down+C beats Mais Top+C.
-Mai’s Bottom+C beats Tungs Top+C.
-Mai’s Bottom+C beats Tungs Top Down+C.
-Tung loses this battle in the Line Shift overall. He’s gotta play it safe and turtle to win this, Mai wins this matchup though.

Mai vs. Krauser
- All Krausers line shifts get beaten by Mais Top+C or Bottom+C. Bad matchup for Krauser!!
- I’d say Mai wins this about 7-3, Krauser can get the upperhand in the main plane, but that’s all hes got working for him!

Mai vs. Terry
-Mai’s Top+C and Terry’s Bottom+C Trade!
-Mai beats Terry’s Top+C with her Bottom+C!
-Mai’s Top+C beats Terry’s Bottom Down+C.
- Mai’s Bottom+C beats Terry’s Top Down+C.
-To win this battle in the line shifts, Terry has to trade with Mai and not her in the Bottom Plane.
-Mai has the upperhand here, but not by too much because Terry has a strong regular plane game, like Krauser.

Mai vs. Kim
-Mai’s Top+C beats Kims Bottom +C!
-Mais Top+C beats Kims Bottom Down+C. Only way he gets this is if he does it OUT of Mai’s Top+C range.
-Mai’s Bottom+C beats Kim’s Top+C!
-Mai’s Bottom+C beats Kim’s Top Down+C.
-Now how the hell you all gonna argue Kim’s better than Mai?? Mai has this matchup too, but its probably 6-4, hella close, because Kim is dangerous all around, Top Tier certainly. However, Mai can also ZONE better than Kim, Kim doesn’t have a projectile, Mai does plus her Line Shifts are better, and she can zone better than Kim thus Mai is better overall!! Also for those that say Kims got a good Anti Air in flash kick..hell SO DOES MAI..in her rising flame.. but airblock takes away both of those..so Mais better than Kim OVERALL!!

Kim vs. Krauser
-Kims Top+C and Bottom+C own Krauser FREE! Just like Billy, Mai, Sokaku, a tough matchup for Krauser! Kim has no projectiles so he has to pretty much stay in the line shift to win, but what can Krauser do? I’d say Kim wins this easily 8-2.

Sokaku vs. Krauser
-Both Sokakus Top+C and Bottom+C beat ALL of Krausers Line Shift attacks!
-Another BAD matchup for Krauser, like Billy, Mai,Kim, however Sokaku relies heavily on projectiles and shit thus Krauser can take advantage of that with Kaiser Wave! I’d say Sokaku wins 6-4.

[Dark Geese]

Here guys I just got finished testing, and roughly on half of the cast Mai can land a S Power Super or hcf+C after a throw...even more of a reason why shes top tier! Shes TOO GOOD! :lovin:

Here are the people I tested Mai can land these on:
-Andy
-Tung
-Krauser
-Franco Bash
**Billy!!!
-Chonrei
-Hon-Fu

Yeah that makes her strong, but its glitchy as hell, like why the hell can I land it on Chonrei but NOT Chonshu? :wtf:

Still makes her super strong...without a doubt top tier..this just solidifies it!

EDIT 1:

Guys I am convinced Mai is the Chun Li of the game..on half the cast shes got a deathly free mixup (When she has S-Power or EVEN WORSE IN THE RED!!!!!!!!! :looney: ) of attack and combo into super (Super easy hitconfirm) or THROW INTO SUPER (another not hard confirm!)..do you all not see that?? :confused:

Thats just DIRTY..Block and still eat a super..attack? Get beat out by her high priority Regular Plane normals that combo into super!!! :devil:

-Dark Geese

[shinblanka]

Larry I did this just for you and to illustrate a point..Just tested all this..

Line Shift Counter Chart/Matchups Part II:


**Disclaimer- Once again this is assuming both characters do their attacks at the same time, what the results are-

Mai vs. Tung
-Mai's Top+C beats Tungs Bottom+C.
-Tung's Top Down+C beats Mais Top+C.
-Mai’s Bottom+C beats Tungs Top+C.
-Mai’s Bottom+C beats Tungs Top Down+C.
-Tung loses this battle in the Line Shift overall. He’s gotta play it safe and turtle to win this, Mai wins this matchup though.

Mai vs. Krauser
- All Krausers line shifts get beaten by Mais Top+C or Bottom+C. Bad matchup for Krauser!!
- I’d say Mai wins this about 7-3, Krauser can get the upperhand in the main plane, but that’s all hes got working for him!

Mai vs. Terry
-Mai’s Top+C and Terry’s Bottom+C Trade!
-Mai beats Terry’s Top+C with her Bottom+C!
-Mai’s Top+C beats Terry’s Bottom Down+C.
- Mai’s Bottom+C beats Terry’s Top Down+C.
-To win this battle in the line shifts, Terry has to trade with Mai and not her in the Bottom Plane.
-Mai has the upperhand here, but not by too much because Terry has a strong regular plane game, like Krauser.

Mai vs. Kim
-Mai’s Top+C beats Kims Bottom +C!
-Mais Top+C beats Kims Bottom Down+C. Only way he gets this is if he does it OUT of Mai’s Top+C range.
-Mai’s Bottom+C beats Kim’s Top+C!
-Mai’s Bottom+C beats Kim’s Top Down+C.
-Now how the hell you all gonna argue Kim’s better than Mai?? Mai has this matchup too, but its probably 6-4, hella close, because Kim is dangerous all around, Top Tier certainly. However, Mai can also ZONE better than Kim, Kim doesn’t have a projectile, Mai does plus her Line Shifts are better, and she can zone better than Kim thus Mai is better overall!! Also for those that say Kims got a good Anti Air in flash kick..hell SO DOES MAI..in her rising flame.. but airblock takes away both of those..so Mais better than Kim OVERALL!!

Kim vs. Krauser
-Kims Top+C and Bottom+C own Krauser FREE! Just like Billy, Mai, Sokaku, a tough matchup for Krauser! Kim has no projectiles so he has to pretty much stay in the line shift to win, but what can Krauser do? I’d say Kim wins this easily 8-2.

Sokaku vs. Krauser
-Both Sokakus Top+C and Bottom+C beat ALL of Krausers Line Shift attacks!
-Another BAD matchup for Krauser, like Billy, Mai,Kim, however Sokaku relies heavily on projectiles and shit thus Krauser can take advantage of that with Kaiser Wave! I’d say Sokaku wins 6-4.

Well with all of that data you should own me 5-2 in our money match!:sweat::sweat::wtf::karate:

We will see shawty!:karate:

Call me shinfreemoney

[shinblanka]

So if I beat you with tung will you say that Mai isn't in the top 3 of the game? Then after the mm we can play krauser vs. mai casuals, because I think he is better than mai also. :sweat::karate:

[Dark Geese]

Well with all of that data you should own me 5-2 in our money match!:sweat::sweat::wtf::karate:

We will see shawty!:karate:

Call me shinfreemoney

Thats the data I was talking about how Mai beats Krauser/Tung matchup wise overall...

So if I beat you with tung will you say that Mai isn't in the top 3 of the game? Then after the mm we can play krauser vs. mai casuals, because I think he is better than mai also. :sweat::karate:

If you beat me with Tung its because you are better than me point in simple..I've presented enough data to argue Mai is top tier clearly..

[Dark Geese]

RBS Geese Tower casuals from last night and plenty more coming from Mexico in about 2 more weeks stay tuned!!! With FFBA2 hitting, more and more are gonna jump on RBS..

Here I am using Mai in casuals I am on the left...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1nlztzPY9U

[Rik]

Hey DG I have a very specific question so I hope ur up to awnser it. What makes RBS so balanced?

[Dark Geese]

Hey DG I have a very specific question so I hope ur up to awnser it. What makes RBS so balanced?

The fact that only one character is bottom tier...Cheng..and most of the cast is A Class..which is high..only four are S Class..and the A Class does well against them except certain matchups which you gotta be wary of which my matchup chart explains..

I DARE anyone to come in here arguing Line Shift ruins the game...whats your basis for this argument??

What do you know about the game????

I've done more research on this game than the people spouting off these claims..

:sweat:

-Dark Geese

[Rik]

I really don't know about the RB series but from visiting various other sites on the game they all seem to shit on RBS pretty bad because of the line shift. They say RB2 is were the series starts getting serious and that the competitive aspect to RBS is ruined due to line shift.

[Dark Geese]

I really don't know about the RB series but from visiting various other sites on the game they all seem to shit on RBS pretty bad because of the line shift. They say RB2 is were the series starts getting serious and that the competitive aspect to RBS is ruined due to line shift.

And thats Bullshit..I challenge ANY person that says this to come in here and defend themselves..I feel I know more about the game than any of them do...

The only reason they would shit on the Line Shift is because-
1. Its too complex for them to FULLY understand or they dont fully understand it
2. They are looking for a copout excuse...

Thats really it...

Nothing else to it. I've done the work to shut this theory up..so the evidence is there..but if people dont wanna read it that's their own fault...

Show me these other sites that say this...I will show them my line chart and shut them up also...

[Rik]

Crap they were some random generic SNK sites I came accross, I know some dudes on this site feel that way. When the archive#2 comes out I don't know which one to get into....RBS or RB2?

[Dark Geese]

Crap they were some random generic SNK sites I came accross, I know some dudes on this site feel that way. When the archive#2 comes out I don't know which one to get into....RBS or RB2?

Play them both...they are both good games... I play RB2 though I prefer RBS...

I play everything SNK though..so people cant say "You only play this game"

I'm like "No...though I prefer xyz watch out and dont let me kick your ass in such and such!"

People would be foolish to sleep on me because I prefer one game over another...:wonder:

The people that feel this way about RBS even on this site I have yet to see some concrete evidence..so until they can give me some concrete evidence to counter what I have said their argument is invalid...

Also makes me question just how much they know about the game....

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

Geese, the problem with the line shift is that it results in at best a guessing game, or at worst an impossible fight.

You still think "A beats X, but Y beats A, but B beats Y" is an example of depth. This is simply not true - depth lies in being able to create a gameplan that allows the better player to consistently win. Games that heavily emphasize guessing (such as this one, or DOA) are lacking in this area. Guilty Gear features a lot of these mixups, yes, but it also allows you to stay out of them if you are skilled enough or escape them if you have meter; in RBS, on the other hand, the mixup begins whenever somebody shifts to the opposite plane, so you can't guard-cancel or avoid it like you can a high/low.

In RB2, this entire guessing game was tossed out, and spacing & other high-level skills became important again. The line shift still has its uses, but it is extremely risky and it does not drastically alter the game like it does in Special.

Special isn't a terrible game - there's just better stuff out there. But I will gladly play you whenever we meet again. =)

-Josh

[masher]

REI is hella low tier.

he got hit with the nerf stick hord after RB1! :shake:

[Dark Geese]

Geese, the problem with the line shift is that it results in at best a guessing game, or at worst an impossible fight.

You still think "A beats X, but Y beats A, but B beats Y" is an example of depth. This is simply not true - depth lies in being able to create a gameplan that allows the better player to consistently win. Games that heavily emphasize guessing (such as this one, or DOA) are lacking in this area. Guilty Gear features a lot of these mixups, yes, but it also allows you to stay out of them if you are skilled enough or escape them if you have meter; in RBS, on the other hand, the mixup begins whenever somebody shifts to the opposite plane, so you can't guard-cancel or avoid it like you can a high/low.

In RB2, this entire guessing game was tossed out, and spacing & other high-level skills became important again. The line shift still has its uses, but it is extremely risky and it does not drastically alter the game like it does in Special.

Special isn't a terrible game - there's just better stuff out there. But I will gladly play you whenever we meet again. =)

-Josh


I see what you are saying but its not unbeatable except for a couple of people..

Also you said you can stay out of them in Guilty Gear if you have meter..you can do the same with Breakshot in RBS...Burst in GG..Breakshot in RBS..you can stay out of all this stuff..same thing...

The line shift does have some depth..

I created a gameplan with Mai that enables me to win..the better player will win in RBS...all there is to it..I think abusing Line Shift all the time is not high level play...you gotta mix it up, if not its scrubby. Theres holes in abusing line shift that I've exposed...

You make it seem like all you gotta do is sit in Line Shift and you win..it doesnt work that way at a high level...

As I've illustrated..and Ghostpilot said...because if I block your LS attack, we are on even planes...time to punish you..so you gotta be solid in the main plane also...

So you gotta be the better player period to win in RBS.. An average Billy I will destroy..why? Because I am the better player...

If someone just sits and whores Line Shift I will destroy them..why? Because once they get in the main plane THEY ARE TOAST..

I also know the intracies of the matchups RATHER WELL ontop of the Paper-Rock-Scissors thing you just said of what to counter what with what..so if they just sit there and whore normals they die a miserable death..

Breakshot is the counter for almost everything also...Its the Alpha Counter of the game...(and it doesnt take a full super meter to use..H Power builds up rather quickly!)

Also in regards to line Shift Josh you're wrong..

It doesnt amount to a guessing game...

not really..Think about it...vs. the S Class, take for example...

You KNOW Mai is gonna abuse Top and Bottom+C...

So you get the counters for that..same with Billy, Sokaku, Kim..

Thus get your counters ready for that....no guess work..which means now they cant whore that..

They arent gonna use the other stuff too much except the sweeps...

Thats what I see...let someone use the other Line Shifts all day.

LOL..they too will die as they are very ineffective...as I will stick to WHAT WORKS...

So yeah, at a low to intermediate level you are guessing between 8 options.. (Top Four= A,B,C, Down+C, Bottom Four= A,B,C, Down+C)

But at a very high level when you KNOW what the the other person is abusing and what to counter..you only have TWO OPTIONS... (Maybe four max if you include the LS Sweeps) Makes the "guesswork" rather easy..I've figured all this out...so the top tier doesnt bother me ONE BIT..

And theres a counter you know in the Top and the Bottom most characters HAVE!!!

-Dark Geese

[Dark Geese]

Ontop of this Josh no one has mentioned countering with the Universal Counter..as I call it..the b,f+a move that everyone has that are their A+B attacks in RB2 that can stop MANY MANY MANY HIGH attacks in the game!!!

So that balances EVERYTHING out..why? Because the most potent line Shift attacks can be blocked High or low (As I say The Cs..limiting the options)..meaning they are High attacks..meaning b,f+a will counter it if done correctly..(It has to be done the moment someone attacks NOT like RB2)

Theres plenty ways to formulate a gameplan in the game of RBS..but thing is you just cant wing it...

You gotta know the system to eliminate the bad options..and that is what I do..I eliminate the bad options and can show you why you eliminate from 8 to four in Line Shift if you want..

[MUSOLINI]

for those interested, BA2 review.

http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/launchreview.asp?reviewid=933889

[Dark Geese]

Thanks Musolini!

Also guys I got some stuff now..SIX WAYS that I think you all will like how to counter Line Shift-

1. Universal Counter- Yes..I've tested it..many work vs. LS attacks.
2. Backdash- Yes during a backdash you can't be punished with LS attacks..so USE THEM..
3. LS jump- Jump either forward, hop forward or whatever in the other plane, their attack will miss or you will throw them off
4. Block! Yes it puts them in the same plane!
5. DELAYED Breakshot- Yes delayed meaning you dont BS the Line Shift normal..you BS the special move that follows that is normally safe...
6. Line shift normal counter attack...see my chart...

There you go..I've been playing a LOT of RBS today getting S's on the CPU Level 8 with this stuff...

The CPU is good on the hardest level of this game to play FOR THIS PURPOSE..it will show you how to work the Line Shift system..

even Boss Billy will use his potent attacks etc...Mai, Sokaku, Kim, you name it..the CPU knows what to use...so its good to learn how to fight against it on the hardest level...

-Dark Geese

[MUSOLINI]

Thanks Musolini!

Also guys I got some stuff now..SIX WAYS that I think you all will like how to counter Line Shift-

1. Universal Counter- Yes..I've tested it..many work vs. LS attacks.
2. Backdash- Yes during a backdash you can't be punished with LS attacks..so USE THEM..
3. LS jump- Jump either forward, hop forward or whatever in the other plane, their attack will miss or you will throw them off
4. Block! Yes it puts them in the same plane!
5. DELAYED Breakshot- Yes delayed meaning you dont BS the Line Shift normal..you BS the special move that follows that is normally safe...
6. Line shift normal counter attack...see my chart...

There you go..I've been playing a LOT of RBS today getting S's on the CPU Level 8 with this stuff...

The CPU is good on the hardest level of this game to play FOR THIS PURPOSE..it will show you how to work the Line Shift system..

even Boss Billy will use his potent attacks etc...Mai, Sokaku, Kim, you name it..the CPU knows what to use...so its good to learn how to fight against it on the hardest level...

-Dark Geese

yeah cpu level 8 is great, same for RB2. though they do cheat sometimes. same ol same ol like in all fighters cpu doing 2 sec charge moves without charging them. doing tons of damage. i remember i was going to kill geese, but krauser stopped that really cheap. i had only 1 pixel of damage from a blocked LT. the guy catches me from a 1/4 screen distance and kills me with his gigantic cyclone. 99.9% damage on one ppower? thats crazy.

fun lil yamazaki trick. hit geese at the start of the round with a snake tamer (mid). hell throw a repuken, double return it. do another snake tamer and repeat till he dies. i just like throwing them fireballs back. in this one his fireball (double return) goes nicely through all fireballs (ala geese repuken A version). nice way to hit joe with. especially after his triple hurricane.

[Dark Geese]

yeah cpu level 8 is great, same for RB2. though they do cheat sometimes. same ol same ol like in all fighters cpu doing 2 sec charge moves without charging them. doing tons of damage. i remember i was going to kill geese, but krauser stopped that really cheap. i had only 1 pixel of damage from a blocked LT. the guy catches me from a 1/4 screen distance and kills me with his gigantic cyclone. 99.9% damage on one ppower? thats crazy.

fun lil yamazaki trick. hit geese at the start of the round with a snake tamer (mid). hell throw a repuken, double return it. do another snake tamer and repeat till he dies. i just like throwing them fireballs back. in this one his fireball (double return) goes nicely through all fireballs (ala geese repuken A version). nice way to hit joe with. especially after his triple hurricane.


The truth..I'm posting Juarez matches in a week or so when I get back Tuesday.

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

So I'm actually playing this now.

I think EX Tung might be even worse than Cheng. Seriously, just try him out once and you'll see why.

EX Andy is fun if you can get in on the opponent, and probably better than the normal version...he has a pursuit, and an air-to-ground throw much like Fuuma's in WHP. And you can do it from a hop, even!

I dunno if EX Billy is better than the normal one, but I think he's more fun at least. After the b,f+A->b,f+C, you can JUGGLE his P-Power in the corner!

Also, with Billy in general, in case you didn't know, you can link a far C into a standing A combo at long range.


Honestly, the more I play this the more I realize that a good number of characters are weaker than in RB2. Here are my thoughts:

Chonshu: The most obvious one probably. His P-Power is terrible in Special, rather than one of the best in 2, and it's almost impossible to get his silly crossup game to work. Additionally, after that close C string, you can only combo the DP and sometimes not even that.

Franco: Another very obvious one IMO. He has almost NONE of the high/low or constant pressure that makes him so dangerous in 2. You can combo the uppercut super in this one, true, but the P-Power is garbage. No way in HELL he is A tier...I actually think he's one of the worst characters overall, when you combine all of this with his crappy line-shift attacks.

Yamazaki: He's extremely similar in the two games, but I think 2 has a slight edge. This is mostly because of the d/f+A upper - just another medium-speed normal in Special, but the single fastest normal in 2. Also, Special doesn't have the sand kick overhead, and the f+A overhead is a little better in 2 as it has a chain that knocks them into the background.

Bob: The breakdance move is nice, but he can't juggle after DP kick in RBS, the P-Power is a little better in 2, and I think he can't juggle from his throw unless I'm missing something. Oh yeah, and then there's that infinite he doesn't have in RBS...

Krauser: I'd rather have 2's version of the leg tomahawk - the RBS one only combos from an A-C chain at point-blank range. The grab super has an easier/quicker motion in 2. The added dp+C move in 2 is an effective and very damaging anti-air. The Iori-style grab is also much better in 2 thanks to the f,f+C->dp+C followup. And RB2 has better corner combos thanks to feint cancels. So in RBS he's not exactly a dominator in a head-to-head fight, and horrible at the line shift game...so why do people think he's good again?



I also think Hon-Fu, Terry, & Cheng are debatable, but that may have to come later...

I'm coming for ya, Geese!

-Josh

[Dark Geese]

So I'm actually playing this now.

I think EX Tung might be even worse than Cheng. Seriously, just try him out once and you'll see why.

EX Andy is fun if you can get in on the opponent, and probably better than the normal version...he has a pursuit, and an air-to-ground throw much like Fuuma's in WHP. And you can do it from a hop, even!

I dunno if EX Billy is better than the normal one, but I think he's more fun at least. After the b,f+A->b,f+C, you can JUGGLE his P-Power in the corner!

Also, with Billy in general, in case you didn't know, you can link a far C into a standing A combo at long range.


Honestly, the more I play this the more I realize that a good number of characters are weaker than in RB2. Here are my thoughts:

Chonshu: The most obvious one probably. His P-Power is terrible in Special, rather than one of the best in 2, and it's almost impossible to get his silly crossup game to work. Additionally, after that close C string, you can only combo the DP and sometimes not even that.

Franco: Another very obvious one IMO. He has almost NONE of the high/low or constant pressure that makes him so dangerous in 2. You can combo the uppercut super in this one, true, but the P-Power is garbage. No way in HELL he is A tier...I actually think he's one of the worst characters overall, when you combine all of this with his crappy line-shift attacks.

Yamazaki: He's extremely similar in the two games, but I think 2 has a slight edge. This is mostly because of the d/f+A upper - just another medium-speed normal in Special, but the single fastest normal in 2. Also, Special doesn't have the sand kick overhead, and the f+A overhead is a little better in 2 as it has a chain that knocks them into the background.

Bob: The breakdance move is nice, but he can't juggle after DP kick in RBS, the P-Power is a little better in 2, and I think he can't juggle from his throw unless I'm missing something. Oh yeah, and then there's that infinite he doesn't have in RBS...

Krauser: I'd rather have 2's version of the leg tomahawk - the RBS one only combos from an A-C chain at point-blank range. The grab super has an easier/quicker motion in 2. The added dp+C move in 2 is an effective and very damaging anti-air. The Iori-style grab is also much better in 2 thanks to the f,f+C->dp+C followup. And RB2 has better corner combos thanks to feint cancels. So in RBS he's not exactly a dominator in a head-to-head fight, and horrible at the line shift game...so why do people think he's good again?



I also think Hon-Fu, Terry, & Cheng are debatable, but that may have to come later...

I'm coming for ya, Geese!

-Josh


Good shit Josh! Knockdown tomahawk by Krauser in RBS...hes A class but thats about it...his main plane game..I think hes more solid in RB2..

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

Something else I noticed: You can't cancel a dash directly into a command grab. You have to press back to stop the dash first.

And I think there really is a "low tier" just above Cheng & EX Tung. These would be characters like Chonshu, Bob, Franco, maybe Krauser & others.


Also, just figured out something that could potentially be game-changing:

If you're in the foreground and the opponent is in the background, the D followup to Sokaku's Dance of Demons is UNBLOCKABLE! This is the only move in the entire game that has this property!

Now, if you're in the background and the opponent is in the foreground, it will completely whiff. But luckily enough, you both start the round in the foreground, so you can stay there and use this to shut down people's line-shift game! And remember that this move also has other followups that beat anything else the opponent can try - an overhead, a low sweep, and an anti-air.

Note that in order to execute this, you will need to hop or backdash and mash A during that animation.

Considering that Sokaku is one of the very best characters on an even playing field, I think this could potentially put him up there with Billy and maybe even make him #1.

-Josh

[Dark Geese]

Something else I noticed: You can't cancel a dash directly into a command grab. You have to press back to stop the dash first.

And I think there really is a "low tier" just above Cheng & EX Tung. These would be characters like Chonshu, Bob, Franco, maybe Krauser & others.


Also, just figured out something that could potentially be game-changing:

If you're in the foreground and the opponent is in the background, the D followup to Sokaku's Dance of Demons is UNBLOCKABLE! This is the only move in the entire game that has this property!

Now, if you're in the background and the opponent is in the foreground, it will completely whiff. But luckily enough, you both start the round in the foreground, so you can stay there and use this to shut down people's line-shift game! And remember that this move also has other followups that beat anything else the opponent can try - an overhead, a low sweep, and an anti-air.

Note that in order to execute this, you will need to hop or backdash and mash A during that animation.

Considering that Sokaku is one of the very best characters on an even playing field, I think this could potentially put him up there with Billy and maybe even make him #1.

-Josh

Well Sokaku is #2 in the game so he is up there with Billy certainly..

[MUSOLINI]

So I'm actually playing this now.

I think EX Tung might be even worse than Cheng. Seriously, just try him out once and you'll see why.

EX Andy is fun if you can get in on the opponent, and probably better than the normal version...he has a pursuit, and an air-to-ground throw much like Fuuma's in WHP. And you can do it from a hop, even!

I dunno if EX Billy is better than the normal one, but I think he's more fun at least. After the b,f+A->b,f+C, you can JUGGLE his P-Power in the corner!

Also, with Billy in general, in case you didn't know, you can link a far C into a standing A combo at long range.


Honestly, the more I play this the more I realize that a good number of characters are weaker than in RB2. Here are my thoughts:

Chonshu: The most obvious one probably. His P-Power is terrible in Special, rather than one of the best in 2, and it's almost impossible to get his silly crossup game to work. Additionally, after that close C string, you can only combo the DP and sometimes not even that.

Franco: Another very obvious one IMO. He has almost NONE of the high/low or constant pressure that makes him so dangerous in 2. You can combo the uppercut super in this one, true, but the P-Power is garbage. No way in HELL he is A tier...I actually think he's one of the worst characters overall, when you combine all of this with his crappy line-shift attacks.

Yamazaki: He's extremely similar in the two games, but I think 2 has a slight edge. This is mostly because of the d/f+A upper - just another medium-speed normal in Special, but the single fastest normal in 2. Also, Special doesn't have the sand kick overhead, and the f+A overhead is a little better in 2 as it has a chain that knocks them into the background.

Bob: The breakdance move is nice, but he can't juggle after DP kick in RBS, the P-Power is a little better in 2, and I think he can't juggle from his throw unless I'm missing something. Oh yeah, and then there's that infinite he doesn't have in RBS...

Krauser: I'd rather have 2's version of the leg tomahawk - the RBS one only combos from an A-C chain at point-blank range. The grab super has an easier/quicker motion in 2. The added dp+C move in 2 is an effective and very damaging anti-air. The Iori-style grab is also much better in 2 thanks to the f,f+C->dp+C followup. And RB2 has better corner combos thanks to feint cancels. So in RBS he's not exactly a dominator in a head-to-head fight, and horrible at the line shift game...so why do people think he's good again?



I also think Hon-Fu, Terry, & Cheng are debatable, but that may have to come later...

I'm coming for ya, Geese!

-Josh

terry and hon aint really that debatable. they are that high cause they got good moves and priorities, in hons case good s and ppower, in terry case just the ppower. another thing that shouldnt be overlooked is the damage these characters can do with just 1 combo, without s or ppowers. this is another reason why franco aint just as low as you say he is. cause after hitting 1 C you can pretty much take 70% of their life, and thats without the spower or corner combos. ex tung probably only has his corner combos and normals going for him. which does make him suck a lil bit. his 2 shitty throws don't do him justice. normal tung is better IMO.

[Dark Geese]

terry and hon aint really that debatable. they are that high cause they got good moves and priorities, in hons case good s and ppower, in terry case just the ppower. another thing that shouldnt be overlooked is the damage these characters can do with just 1 combo, without s or ppowers. this is another reason why franco aint just as low as you say he is. cause after hitting 1 C you can pretty much take 70% of their life, and thats without the spower or corner combos. ex tung probably only has his corner combos and normals going for him. which does make him suck a lil bit. his 2 shitty throws don't do him justice. normal tung is better IMO.

You beat me to the punch..I was gonna say this.

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

I know about the damage people can deliver in this game. But what can Franco do against a turtle? Maybe empty-jump -> throw, but that's not damaging or easy to set up. He has little mixup in this one, there are no feint cancels, and his Barom Punch (the A+B move in RBS) has much worse recovery than in 2.

The same criticism applies to many other characters as well - I think a lot of SNK players just hate turtling and don't want to believe it's a viable option, but in RBS it is very strong indeed. Musolini, you play with infinite time, right? That would explain why you see things differently.


Now then, since people are curious, I'll comment a little more. Upon further playing, I do agree that Hon-Fu is better in this one, but I'm still not so sure about Cheng or even Terry. The thing with RBS Cheng is that he can't use the B version ball as a breakshot - only the really slow C one. That's his bread & butter right there. And the P-Power is even worse in this game, since opponents can easily line shift and punish him with a standing C combo.

Now, as for Terry, well, Power Dunk just sucks, period. The Power Charge -> Power Dunk chain doesn't work on the girls, the Jin bros., or Tung. And Rising Tackle only combos from the charge at close range (i.e. not after a chain). Compare this to the Fire Kick - you can always juggle something from it at least, and (far more importantly) it's a breakshot. With its convenient motion and damage, it is one of the very best breakshots in the game, and RBS Terry's Power Dunk breakshot doesn't even come close. Oh yeah, and he can't combo his P-Power in RBS, except for a 1-hit juggle from the Power Charge.



Now, on a more positive note, holy crap is Joe fun in this! Great combos all around, a Kaiser-Wave style P-Power that doesn't need a charge and combos from his launcher strings, and insane pressure with his projectile. In fact, Geese, could you maybe look into how good his line shifts are? In head-to-head fighting he blows Mai away, but we gotta see how he matches up on opposite planes...

Thanks,
Josh.

[Dark Geese]

I know about the damage people can deliver in this game. But what can Franco do against a turtle? Maybe empty-jump -> throw, but that's not damaging or easy to set up. He has little mixup in this one, there are no feint cancels, and his Barom Punch (the A+B move in RBS) has much worse recovery than in 2.

The same criticism applies to many other characters as well - I think a lot of SNK players just hate turtling and don't want to believe it's a viable option, but in RBS it is very strong indeed. Musolini, you play with infinite time, right? That would explain why you see things differently.


Now then, since people are curious, I'll comment a little more. Upon further playing, I do agree that Hon-Fu is better in this one, but I'm still not so sure about Cheng or even Terry. The thing with RBS Cheng is that he can't use the B version ball as a breakshot - only the really slow C one. That's his bread & butter right there. And the P-Power is even worse in this game, since opponents can easily line shift and punish him with a standing C combo.

Now, as for Terry, well, Power Dunk just sucks, period. The Power Charge -> Power Dunk chain doesn't work on the girls, the Jin bros., or Tung. And Rising Tackle only combos from the charge at close range (i.e. not after a chain). Compare this to the Fire Kick - you can always juggle something from it at least, and (far more importantly) it's a breakshot. With its convenient motion and damage, it is one of the very best breakshots in the game, and RBS Terry's Power Dunk breakshot doesn't even come close. Oh yeah, and he can't combo his P-Power in RBS, except for a 1-hit juggle from the Power Charge.



Now, on a more positive note, holy crap is Joe fun in this! Great combos all around, a Kaiser-Wave style P-Power that doesn't need a charge and combos from his launcher strings, and insane pressure with his projectile. In fact, Geese, could you maybe look into how good his line shifts are? In head-to-head fighting he blows Mai away, but we gotta see how he matches up on opposite planes...

Thanks,
Josh.


Sure Josh I'll take a look at Joes Line Shift and I'll get back to you about that!

I know Mai beats Joe in the Line Shifts though..hence Mai wins that matchup.

[MUSOLINI]

I know about the damage people can deliver in this game. But what can Franco do against a turtle? Maybe empty-jump -> throw, but that's not damaging or easy to set up. He has little mixup in this one, there are no feint cancels, and his Barom Punch (the A+B move in RBS) has much worse recovery than in 2.

The same criticism applies to many other characters as well - I think a lot of SNK players just hate turtling and don't want to believe it's a viable option, but in RBS it is very strong indeed. Musolini, you play with infinite time, right? That would explain why you see things differently.


Now then, since people are curious, I'll comment a little more. Upon further playing, I do agree that Hon-Fu is better in this one, but I'm still not so sure about Cheng or even Terry. The thing with RBS Cheng is that he can't use the B version ball as a breakshot - only the really slow C one. That's his bread & butter right there. And the P-Power is even worse in this game, since opponents can easily line shift and punish him with a standing C combo.

Now, as for Terry, well, Power Dunk just sucks, period. The Power Charge -> Power Dunk chain doesn't work on the girls, the Jin bros., or Tung. And Rising Tackle only combos from the charge at close range (i.e. not after a chain). Compare this to the Fire Kick - you can always juggle something from it at least, and (far more importantly) it's a breakshot. With its convenient motion and damage, it is one of the very best breakshots in the game, and RBS Terry's Power Dunk breakshot doesn't even come close. Oh yeah, and he can't combo his P-Power in RBS, except for a 1-hit juggle from the Power Charge.



Now, on a more positive note, holy crap is Joe fun in this! Great combos all around, a Kaiser-Wave style P-Power that doesn't need a charge and combos from his launcher strings, and insane pressure with his projectile. In fact, Geese, could you maybe look into how good his line shifts are? In head-to-head fighting he blows Mai away, but we gotta see how he matches up on opposite planes...

Thanks,
Josh.

yeah i play any and all the fighters i play with infinite time, unless its impossible like in the old SS (1/3) and KOF (94/96) games. you do have good points, but thats exactly why there is a RB2 after RBS, they tried to improbe their mistakes. that doesnt change the fact that some characters are better in RBS than they are in RB2. and fuck yeah, joe is a killer in this one. cant believe somebody actually said he was low in this one. hes top dog, just below the S class. 50% normal combos, Bg breaking combos, can combo his ppower after a juggle.

back to your terry point. you should try and time you ppower better. after a powercharge do the ppower at the very last moment and you WILL hit all 3 geysers and do a shitload of damage. do this close to the corner and add a rising tackle at the end. only character so far in the game who io havent been ableto succesfully hit with all 3 geysers is yamazaki for some odd reason. but even he WILL get hit by 2. so your timing is really of if your only hitting 1.

also, powerdunk is a great fucking anti air, with lots of priority. you would need an aniti air with invincibility to actually beat terry out of this move. PD doesnt combo on some characters after the PC, but the RT always does if timed right, unless you combo from really far away. also RB2 terrys fire kick isnt as good as yu make it out to be. if its blocked your fucked, so its best done from a certain distance. and in combos a lot of the times either the firekick will be done from too far and the first hit wont hit, or if it does the second one doesnt, and even it that one also hits you wont be able to juggle afterwards. not even with the CS. though it IS a great BS for sure and has its uses in combos if you know when to use it.

p.s. why arent more people playing with no time just life. since we dont play these games in the arcade but in our home, there aint no arcade owners that are forcing us to play 45 second games, just curious. losing through time is one of the gayest things in a figter IMO. right after the time out draws. double K.O. is O.K. with me though.

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

A time limit in fighters is a good thing because it gives you an extra way to win and adds pressure if you're behind. Seriously, could you imagine Justin Wong vs. Steve Harrison with no timer? 1 round would take 10 minutes!

I understand that you're not fond of defensive play in general, so this just may be an "agree to disagree" thing. I've always been of the opinion that games should try to accommodate as many different playing styles as possible.

-Josh

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

OK, to get more directly on-topic, in case people still don't know, here is why EX Mary is crazy!

1. S-Power. Just perform it once, realize that it's a throw, and you'll see what I mean. Shit is Duck King on crack...

2. Extremely high damage from the most basic combos. Jump C, Crouching C XX dp+B -> d/b,f+C, then finish with the d+B pursuit - with only 5 hits, you'll remove the entire first lifebar! She can also chain a crouching A/B into d+C and finish with the same special, though this doesn't have the greatest range.

3. The least obvious element, but perhaps the most important: The Dodge. This isn't the crappy RB2 version that hardly dodges anything - this is a true KOF-style dodge, invincible to everything except throws. It's much better than in KOF, actually, because she can cancel it directly into a command grab. This means that even if the opponent sticks out his best poke and you perform the grab, you will throw him; there is no vulnerable period between the two moves. The grab doesn't even have a whiff animation, so you will remain dodging if it misses.

Once the opponent figures out what's going on, he will be forced to jump, throw you, or line shift, and all of those present you with the opportunity to dish out serious damage. Here is your answer to each of these options:

Throw: Just attack the opponent instead of dodging. The crouching A/B combo mentioned earlier is the most damaging one, but if not in range you can use Standing A/B -> C -> hcb+C.

Jump: dp+B -> d/b,f+C, pursuit. Just make sure you actually see them jump first, because this move does not hit people on the ground (hence why you need a launch to combo it). The P-Power might even work, though the motion is cumbersome.

Line Shift: These are vulnerable during their startup, and easier to punish than in RB2 since you use your standard attack buttons instead of D. If you see this, you can hit him with a standing C on reaction and combo that into b,f+B -> hcf+B -> pursuit (wait for them to stop bouncing). The P-Power will sometimes combo here, but sometimes whiff as well, so I wouldn't recommend it.

With the damage you can get from any of these, the opponent will likely be scared back into blocking and leave himself open to dodge throws and S-Powers.


On an even plane, EX Mary may well be the best character in the game, but her greatest weakness is the line-shift. The other top-tier characters gain a clear advantage there, so her goal is to stay on top of them and keep them out of the background. With her array of offensive options, she has the best chance of anyone at pulling this off!

-Josh

[Dark Geese]

Guys uploading Day Two Juarez, Mexico RBS matches right now...

Day Five/Six though is where things get interesting..I also turn it up some notches with Mai during that time and stop fucking around and get to business..pulling out my heavy hitter comboes...

Stay tuned..


EDIT- Last of Day Two Juarez, Mexico matches:

Set 1:
1. Dark Geese vs. Kane9998
2. Dark Geese vs. Benji
3. Dark Geese vs. Kane9998
4. Dark Geese vs. Kane9998

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3KahF1UvdU

Set 2:
1. Dark Geese vs. Benji
2. Dark Geese vs. Kane9998
3. Dark Geese vs. Kane9998

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9XfKTaukCk

Day Six matches when I get serious will get uploaded soon..

-Dark Geese

[Dark Geese]

RBS Juarez casuals from Day Six when I actually stop fucking around with Mai and get serious..

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=5092737&postcount=2606

And more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U7b3qh3cvk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7X8CmFBAQ8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHScRU9SZQY

Next batch I'm putting up is me fucking around with some other characters like Kim and Sokaku from the last Day..

[FatalFuryD]

Learned more about the rb series in here with you three posting than I did in past decade playing. keep up the good work.

[Dark Geese]

Learned more about the rb series in here with you three posting than I did in past decade playing. keep up the good work.

Sure thing..still trying to figure out who rated this thread two stars..whatever..

:rofl: :rofl:

I laugh at that shit now..so childish.

EDIT- The latest batch of Juarez, Mexico RBS casuals, the last sets I believe:

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=5094400&postcount=2631

[Dark Geese]

Gonna post about Joes Line Shift attacks vs. the top tier today so stay tuned.

Also Josh about that Sokaku unblockable stuff..its not fool proof..the problem is you are still guessing....if you guess wrong you can get punished severely...

Josh- Another reason why sure thats a good gimmick with Sokaku but an expert will get around it..

Ways to get around Sokakus Unblockable/why its not game changing necessarily:
#1- All I gotta do is jump while I am in the background constantly (forward or backwards) or hop vs your D Dance of Demons Line Shift unblockable attack. Your Anti Air and all other Dance of Demon attacks will completely whiff..thus rendering that move useless if I am in the air!!!
#2- Plus if I am right next to you Mai's Line Shift Top Down+C sweep will trade, its only effective if the person doesn't know how to jump lol to evade it. Plus your whole strategy on this is based off just sitting in the foreground using that attack..you can't just do that vs. experts and expect to win...they will see right through that gimmick indeed..because jumping/hopping evades it free!
#3- Notice also as Josh said his main thing is it only works in the foreground not viceversa..so thats the checkmate for it...he cant use it while in the background so you know what hes going to be using in the foreground!!!! Get that jump ready!

As I find more ways I will post them up! Sure its strong but its like Line Shift..doesnt ruin the game...

And sure I'm already ontop of something else..sure in the corner with meter he gets a free mixup of S Power (which covers both planes) or Dance of Demons UB and combo into it..but only a amateur would not jump OUT of the corner the moment they get in it or get out of it so as to not fall for that corner mixup.

-Dark Geese

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

Actually played this a few times, and learned a few things.

Mai is not high tier. Nor is EX Mary, I will admit. And Krauser is strong - his line shift attacks are awesome, the total opposite of what you claim.

More on this later, have to work today!

-Josh

[Dark Geese]

Actually played this a few times, and learned a few things.

Mai is not high tier. Nor is EX Mary, I will admit. And Krauser is strong - his line shift attacks are awesome, the total opposite of what you claim.

More on this later, have to work today!

-Josh

Krausers Line Shifts get totally beaten by Sokaku, Kim, Mai, Billy.. hence the reason Krauser is not Top Tier...His Line shifts may be awesome against EVERYONE ELSE..but not against the S Class! Mai and Billy own him free in the Line Shift!!

So you are gonna have to come strong Josh!

What argument do you have that Mai is not high tier?? She has some of the best Line Shifts in the game and is more solid than even Kim..

[Spooty Whiteboy]

What argument do you have that Mai is not high tier?? She has some of the best Line Shifts in the game and is more solid than even Kim..

You know this is a good game when the only argument for top tier is "[blank] has the best line shift!"

</sarcasm>

[Dark Geese]

Matter of fact Josh I'm retesting Krauser now and if your argument that Krauser is strong because he beats people like Hon Fu and the others that are not in S Class's Line Shifts..sure he does..

If it aint The S Class, Sure stuff like Krausers Top+C is BUFF..but against the S Class forget about it...

But I'm checking again right now...and he still gets his ass owned by Billy, Mai, Sokaku, Kim in the Line Shift both Top and Bottom..hence he aint top tier! The S Class owns him in the Line Shift!!!

-Dark Geese

[Dark Geese]

You know this is a good game when the only argument for top tier is "[blank] has the best line shift!"

</sarcasm>

Why Mai is top tier-

1. Some of the best line Shifts in the game..along with Billy, Sokaku, Kim, Joe that beat most of the cast INCLUDING KRAUSER!!
2. Excellent anti airs in Rising Flame, S Power, Hop+C or Hop+B or air combo Hop/Jump forward+ B,C.
3. Abusable special that takes off time, builds meter (slowly), is safe blocked, does chip damage : multifan
4. Ryuenbu builds mad meter FAST!
5. Excellent normals like cr.a, st.a, cr.b, jump C, far st.b all have very good priority.
6. Has basic comboes that can dizzy/wall break and do one bar of damage with ease!
7. On half the cast has a free mixup of Throw into S Power/HCF+C or combo into S Power!
8. Can counter each of the S Class's Line Shifts with her own!
9. Has abusable traps in corner that can be evaded mainly by Line Shifting (to which I can Line Shift C and put you back in it) possibly jumping at the right moment, or Break Shotting.
10. Has the tools to play defense or offense! She's very well rounded!
11. A Blocked Hcf+C is SAFE, and at the right angle a blocked aerial down+AC is SAFE...
12. Ryuenbu at the right angle also is SAFE blocked..her best meter builder is safe!
13. Has a very easy time getting the opponent in the corner where she becomes extremely deadly due to her target wall break comboes!!
14. Has safe moves such as multifan or ryuenbu, or hcf+C or even Kachosen that can be used after a blocked Line Shift attack!
15. Doesnt have to end everything with Multifan, if the opponent has H Power can cut it short to ryuenbu to throw off the opponents Break Shot timing! (esp Kachosen from a distance, what, are you gonna Breakshot my fan and leave yourself open to be counter attacked??? :lol: :lol: )
16. Has some corner traps that you CANNOT jump out of!!! :wow:

[LWK]

A lot of stuff is easy as hell to see for break shots to, we need to keep this in mind when ranking anyone. For example, is X character so good for one exploit, when anyone can beat it? IE, if someone tries some stupid shit constantly, like pressure strings that are repeated, you can break it with a decent meter, while some strings benefit even with the potential break shots being used. I really need to go over as many probably situations as I can, and there is just so much stuff to go through.

This is a counter match game more then usual and we just don't have enough footage of top level play to make accurate assumptions of who is god tier, I think the list isn't bad so far, but there is just so much bullshit in this game, like so much to where its a stupid investment. Lets get those vids going! For example that weak infinite on krauser with terry.

However, Krausers cyclone is next to impossible to see, and it has ridiculous range, and he can get free set ups based on the fear it creates. Which is one of the refining factors of Hugo in 3S, once that meter is built, you better pay damn well attention to taking any action that leaves you unsafe.

So with this in mind, we figure in that Krauser is a infinite target, has pretty good range pokes, so you can go somewhere with his game of course.. My worry is his far C as a edge poke might be break shot bait. His area coverage doesn't seem that bad.

I need to go over this game more and really go through, Billy is definitely up there though, in every game of this series he is way to good.

Like the ABC string in RBFF, you can LITERALLY center your spacing game around that and tick with it constantly, the first two parts of it you don't even need to hit, just press ABC in rapid succession.. In a deeper match its return attack bait, but its a simple foundation that forces you to rush down, which is exactly what billy wants cause he hunts air easily. Thank god for line switching.

If billy has that ABC full screen poke bait, he can literally go alpha 2 style, which is bad ass. (ala, the old charlie turtlers) and in a game as fucked up as RBS, why not?

[Dark Geese]

Good points

You make very good points...esp about the Break Shotting..like for example people that think Mai is tops just because of the multifan..PLEASE :confused:..if all you do with Mai is whore multifan as someone that now knows the ins and outs of her..

I can truthfully say you are an Amateur Mai..she has soooooooooo much more to offer...

And she can build meter very very well!!!

#1-For example, it only takes 5 whiffed Ryuenbus to build H Power, and it recovers very fast!

Heres even better...

#2- I land one of my MAIN target comboes with Mai and my meter is already HALF FULL!!!

:wtf: :devil:

So for me if I cant use the throw mixup into S power or HCF+C with Mai, I will do ryuenbus post knock down to build meter, to which you must tech and use your meter just to tech and try and punish me!

So combine nailing my target comboes with Mai and whiffing RyuenBus and I can almost have meter when I please!!!

Even better than that???

#3-Even BLOCKED my target combo STILL BUILDS HALF METER!!

:rock:

So you gotta use meter for Break Shotting just to stop me from BUILDING METER...yeah thats right...and by the way, blocking/interrupting my target combo!

#4- My target combo can be SWITCHED to go low whenever I want and still finish!

-Dark Geese

[Dark Geese]

Also in addition I just tested one of my Mai corner traps and not even the CPU can jump out of it if I do it right..CPU is locked in the trap pretty much...

Added more reasons why Mai is top tier!

Joe vs. the S Class:

Joe vs. Sokaku:
-Joes Top+C beats Sokaku's Bottom+C.
-Joes Top+C beats Sokakus Bottom Down+C.
-Joes Bottom+C beats Sokaku's Top+C.
-Joes Bottom+C beats Sokakus Top Down +C.

All Sokakus major Line Shifts get beaten by Joes! Sokaku wins this fight overall due to the other tools at his disposal, but it aint gonna be in the Line Shift unless hes using Josh's Sokaku Unblockable to slow things down a bit, but even then a simple hop and punish will make Sokaku think twice about using that! This matchup is much closer than people would think..Joe can go head to toe with Sokaku! Joe's got some very, very potent Line Shift attacks guys!!!

Joe vs. Kim:
-Joe's Top+C beats Kims Bottom+C!
-Joe's Bottom+C beats Kims Top+C!
-Joe's Top and Bottom+C beat Kims Top and Bottom Down+C!

Once again Joe's Line Shifts overpower another top tier person! I am starting to wonder if Joe is borderline top tier himself...hes buff as hell!!! Joe can certainly win this matchup as hes better than Kim in all three planes!!! :wow:

Joe vs. Mai:
-Mai's Bottom+C beats Joes Top+C!!!!
-Joes Bottom+C beats Mais Top+C!
-Joes Bottom+C and Mais Top+C TRADE!
-Mai's Bottom+C Beats Joes Top Down+C.

Mais Line Shift attacks are better here, with the main advantage as I've said before being her Bottom+C being her best Line Shift attack and one of the best in the game HANDS DOWN. (Top 3 at least I think top two) Joe can fight against her well...but I give the edge to Mai due to Line Shift attacks!

Joe vs. Billy:
-Joes Top+C beats Billys Bottom+C! :wow:
-Billys Top+C beats Joe's Bottom+C.
-Theres two phases to Joes Bottom Down+C vs. Billys Top+C.
Phase #1- Not in close range Billys Top+C beats Joes Bottom Down+C.
Phase #2- In Close range, Joes Bottom Down+C beats Billys Top+C!!!
-Joes Top+C beats Billy Top Down+C!!

Joe surprisingly :wow: wins this battle in the Line Shift vs. Billy!!!!!
This battle could be even though due to Billys strength in the main plane I give the edge slightly to Billy.

All this to me suggests Joe is borderline if not Top tier! And now for the end..

Joe vs. Krauser:
-As I suspected, Joes Top and Bottom+C beat ALL Krausers Line Shift attacks! (No surprise :rofl: :rofl: :lol: )

Unless someone can argue against me, I have some good evidence for the time being to put Joe as Top tier...
Meaning now we have-

1. Billy
2. Sokaku
3. Mai
4. Joe
5. Kim

Also what Musolini was talking about on page 2 about Joe is true..after his df+C throw you can land an B button tiger Kick! Good damage almost a full bar if all 9 hits of the throw land and the tiger kick! What may hurt Joe is I am having a hard time finding out how to combo into his S or P Power! :sweat:

P.S. Also everyone remember that every country has different tiers..so what may be top tier in our country may not be in another... (EX Mary tops in Japan like the supreme said)

-Dark Geese

[shinblanka]

Actually played this a few times, and learned a few things.

Mai is not high tier. Nor is EX Mary, I will admit. And Krauser is strong - his line shift attacks are awesome, the total opposite of what you claim.

More on this later, have to work today!

-Josh

I wonder how you found that out sir?!?!?!?:rolleyes::wink::wgrin::wgrin::karate::k arate::rock::karate:

[Dark Geese]

I found out how to combo into Joe's P Power but not quite his S-

To combo into his P Power you gotta do cr.bx2 df+C..then immediately do his P Power.

Larry- I've already countered his arguments..he's gonna have quite the explaining to do to counter what I've said...

I'll be waiting.

EDIT- When Joe has P-Power in the corner he has a nasty mixup-

Df+C throw into tiger kick, or cr.bx2 to df+C to P Power!!

[shinblanka]

Also in addition I just tested one of my Mai corner traps and not even the CPU can jump out of it if I do it right..CPU is locked in the trap pretty much...

Added more reasons why Mai is top tier!

Joe vs. the S Class:

Joe vs. Sokaku:
-Joes Top+C beats Sokaku's Bottom+C.
-Joes Top+C beats Sokakus Bottom Down+C.
-Joes Bottom+C beats Sokaku's Top+C.
-Joes Bottom+C beats Sokakus Top Down +C.

All Sokakus major Line Shifts get beaten by Joes! Sokaku wins this fight overall due to the other tools at his disposal, but it aint gonna be in the Line Shift unless hes using Josh's Sokaku Unblockable to slow things down a bit, but even then a simple hop and punish will make Sokaku think twice about using that! This matchup is much closer than people would think..Joe can go head to toe with Sokaku! Joe's got some very, very potent Line Shift attacks guys!!!

Joe vs. Kim:
-Joe's Top+C beats Kims Bottom+C!
-Joe's Bottom+C beats Kims Top+C!
-Joe's Top and Bottom+C beat Kims Top and Bottom Down+C!

Once again Joe's Line Shifts overpower another top tier person! I am starting to wonder if Joe is borderline top tier himself...hes buff as hell!!! Joe can certainly win this matchup as hes better than Kim in all three planes!!! :wow:

Joe vs. Mai:
-Mai's Bottom+C beats Joes Top+C!!!!
-Joes Bottom+C beats Mais Top+C!
-Joes Bottom+C and Mais Top+C TRADE!
-Mai's Bottom+C Beats Joes Top Down+C.

Mais Line Shift attacks are better here, with the main advantage as I've said before being her Bottom+C being her best Line Shift attack and one of the best in the game HANDS DOWN. (Top 3 at least I think top two) Joe can fight against her well...but I give the edge to Mai due to Line Shift attacks!

Joe vs. Billy:
-Joes Top+C beats Billys Bottom+C! :wow:
-Billys Top+C beats Joe's Bottom+C.
-Theres two phases to Joes Bottom Down+C vs. Billys Top+C.
Phase #1- Not in close range Billys Top+C beats Joes Bottom Down+C.
Phase #2- In Close range, Joes Bottom Down+C beats Billys Top+C!!!
-Joes Top+C beats Billy Top Down+C!!

Joe surprisingly :wow: wins this battle in the Line Shift vs. Billy!!!!!
This battle could be even though due to Billys strength in the main plane I give the edge slightly to Billy.

All this to me suggests Joe is borderline if not Top tier! And now for the end..

Joe vs. Krauser:
-As I suspected, Joes Top and Bottom+C beat ALL Krausers Line Shift attacks! (No surprise :rofl: :rofl: :lol: )

Unless someone can argue against me, I have some good evidence for the time being to put Joe as Top tier...
Meaning now we have-

1. Billy
2. Sokaku
3. Mai
4. Joe
5. Kim

Also what Musolini was talking about on page 2 about Joe is true..after his df+C throw you can land an B button tiger Kick! Good damage almost a full bar if all 9 hits of the throw land and the tiger kick! What may hurt Joe is I am having a hard time finding out how to combo into his S or P Power! :sweat:

P.S. Also everyone remember that every country has different tiers..so what may be top tier in our country may not be in another... (EX Mary tops in Japan like the supreme said)

-Dark Geese



:rofl::rofl::looney::looney: at that list! Just have my money ready sir!:wgrin::karate: I'm going to teach alot of people the correct way to play rbs online on that 2df client! I don't talk about how or what is top tier I show it and that's why josh made that statement about krauser!:karate: You can study all you want, but the shit I do you won't see on a combo vid, unless someone records me playing!

P.S. don't anyone record any of my matches damnit!:annoy: It doesn't matter because I suck at snk game anyways.:rolleyes::sweat:

[Dark Geese]

:rofl::rofl::looney::looney: at that list! Just have my money ready sir!:wgrin::karate: I'm going to teach alot of people the correct way to play rbs online on that 2df client! I don't talk about how or what is top tier I show it and that's why josh made that statement about krauser!:karate: You can study all you want, but the shit I do you won't see on a combo vid, unless someone records me playing!

P.S. don't anyone record any of my matches damnit!:annoy: It doesn't matter because I suck at snk game anyways.:rolleyes::sweat:


Dont record the matches lol..okay sure no prob. I still am going to wait for someone to counter my argument about Krauser..I've put up some solid evidence that pretty much counters everything thats been said...

I said again the reason Krauser is A class is because the S Class keeps him OUT of S class lol.

Hes got a good Main plane game and as I see a solid Line Shift plane game against others EXCEPT the S Class, but as my specialty has been focusing on the top tiers, Krausers Line Shifting doesnt do SHIT against the top tiers....

So hes weak in that regard..pure ownage..I will be glad to demonstrate this in person too..

Tap a button and watch it get beaten pretty much... (In Line Shifting)

I will show you in person why Mai is top tier..you havent played the right one yet..whoring multifan is scrubby if they are just doing that..

:lol: :rofl: :rofl:

You see that list of 16 things up there Mai has at her disposal?? AN EXPERT MAI (Key is expert...not average, not beginner, not one that just whores multifan, none of those! :sweat: ) will throw all that at you..so get ready..that's what you're up against..

Plus you play Krauser and Tung?? This shit is gonna be fun..that's a free throw into S power or HCF+C FREE bud against those two characters... :devil: :badboy: (I got the list memorized)

I put my shit up there because I want to see someone come out and do better...I look forward to our showdown... :china:

-Dark Geese

[Syxx573]

why don't u just hop on 2df and actually play some people... you could be playing him now... i just did and i got raped hahaha

seriously takes like 5 mins to set up... and close to no lag

[Syxx573]

oh ya i don't think mai's hcf+C is safe, i was in throw range against krauser on block every time but against tung i was fine

and that qcb c move is terrible on block because most if not all of the parts (except the last hit) are not safe and on top of that it is easy to breakshot

[shinblanka]

why don't u just hop on 2df and actually play some people... you could be playing him now... i just did and i got raped hahaha

seriously takes like 5 mins to set up... and close to no lag


GG's sir! Let him keep thinking she is top tier. I think it's more that he is good with mai. Not that mai is top tier, but dg is top tier with her.:wink:

[Spooty Whiteboy]

Are line shifts really that important in this game? Can you not...idk...jump straight up and attack to counter them? Or block them, then breakshift during the block string? Because if they aren't, then I'm sure Krauser could be top tier; seeing as how the only argument thrown up so far is how he doesn't have good line shift attacks.

[Dark Geese]

oh ya i don't think mai's hcf+C is safe, i was in throw range against krauser on block every time but against tung i was fine

and that qcb c move is terrible on block because most if not all of the parts (except the last hit) are not safe and on top of that it is easy to breakshot


Thats why you finish it ALWAYS..the last hit is safe....The others are not..

Never do the move unless you finish it...thats a rule of thumb in regards to Mai's hcb+C..
Also you all are just figuring out something I been known for a while..breakshot hcb+C always

But like I say if your entire strategy revolves around hcb+C..you're fucked in the ass from the getgo..

I'll show you at MWC how 2 push your Mai into her full potential..shes more than about HCB+C thats beginner level stuff really it is...the more I play her the more I realize to abuse that all the time is hella scrubby....You also gotta watch your opponents H Power..thats when they will try to BreakShot..

And hcf+C may be safe on a few people..haven't tested if it is against everyone...something I will do in the future...

[Dark Geese]

Are line shifts really that important in this game? Can you not...idk...jump straight up and attack to counter them? Or block them, then breakshift during the block string? Because if they aren't, then I'm sure Krauser could be top tier; seeing as how the only argument thrown up so far is how he doesn't have good line shift attacks.

Line Shifts are important but all you gotta do is jump to avoid them and use the other things I've said to avoid them also...

Against people like Mai, Billy, Kim, Joe, Sokaku, if they sit in the other planes its pretty hard for Krauser to do much to punish it... Even if he jumps he cant jump and punish...most if not all line shift attacks recover quicker than a hop in the other plane..

Very hard...hes just gotta turtle and Breakshot when he has the opportunity..

What I call Delayed Breakshotting..it seems some of you are discovering this now..

As I say there are ways around almost everything in this game..including Mai's hcb+C..if your strategy revolves around it you will lose to an expert.. all it is to it.

[shinblanka]

Thats why you finish it ALWAYS..the last hit is safe....The others are not..

Never do the move unless you finish it...thats a rule of thumb in regards to Mai's hcb+C..
Also you all are just figuring out something I been known for a while..breakshot hcb+C always

But like I say if your entire strategy revolves around hcb+C..you're fucked in the ass from the getgo..

I'll show you at MWC how push your Mai into her full potential..shes more than about HCB+C...the more I play her the more I realize to abuse that all the time is hella scrubby....You also gotta watch your opponents H Power..thats when they will try to BreakShot..

And hcf+C may be safe on a few people..haven't tested if it is against everyone...something I will do in the future...


I breakshot that move all day long during the end sir!:karate: Ask the guy if i'm lying! Am I telling lies on this thread or am I legit syxx573?

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

Spootz: If you jump over a line shift attack, you cannot attack yourself. And the line shift C attacks (which are about all anyone ever uses) keep the opponent on the opposite plane anyway.

Your best solution is to try to rush the opponent down and stay on top of him so he can't escape into the background. If they manage to do so, then you just have to hit them or block their attack.