Would a naturalistic gfx style have worked?

[Crayfish]

Been curious as to how a naturalistic graphics style in SF would have worked out especialy with the rendering power seen in games like VF5. Was always a fan of the pre-Alpha less cartoony Capcom style (last seen in Super Muscle Bomber), and these two 3rd party creations look pretty awsome:
http://www.mvelasquez.com/Dhalsim.htm
http://www.turksandwich.com/3d/sagat_body_final.jpg


Hyper Fighting Channel. (http://www.youtube.com/Crayfis)

[Kataklysmic]

No, because realism just isn't as interesting. Although I would've preferred the pre-Alpha art as a reference for the models myself.

http://arcadeflyers.com/?page=flyer&db=videodb&id=1150&image=6

[Jimmy Bones]

No. Capcom didnt want SF4 to look like DMC, Planet Lost or other capcom titles, because of realism. SF got his own style, to be more anime because it always been like that.

[hubcapsignstop]

sure it could have worked
i think those models look cool
i want to see that raggedy andy dhalsim pull out a dirty little lighter and spit someone on fire
hs sideshow ass madde a belt out of his dead kids' skulls
that moT*ther fc*(ker is crazzyy

[Lonestar]

Those are some pretty awesome models there. While I do really like the way that SF4 is turning out so far, I think it would be interesting to have a SF game with models such as those.

[AlphaDragoon02]

LOL, I personally know the guy who did the Dhalsim model. We went to school together.

[coco_j]

^ It's a pretty good design. Still, I'd rather the more anime/cartoony look we have now.

[shatterstar]

no, but save it for that Namco X Capcom 2.

you know it's gonna happen...

[triplefierce]

NO- all current 3D fighters are using realistic models, by choosing to use more exaggerated models capcom makes SF4 stand out graphically from the other titles.

IMO there is a bland, photo-realistic visual sameness to most games of this current generation.

[hubcapsignstop]

as stylized as SF4 is trying to be visually
the graphics remain kinda bland as is to me

[GStick]

the Dhalsim model looks awesome. Wouldn't mind the game in that style, reminds me of SF2 a bit to be honest.

[capcom2d.com]

I think they really should have tried to get a look like KOF XII but with less shading and 3d models. Anyone have that Super (Maybe Super Turbo) art with the somewhat realistic looking but still horribly muscular Street Fighter characters, I think at a airport? I always liked the look of that, but it's really weird.

[goodm0urning]

Those models are nicely done, but they look like they could be from any fighting game. The hand-drawn look is by far the best for Street Fighter.

[megaultrasuper]

Those models are pretty bad ass looking and I could definitely see an alternative SF4 with this look. However, I wouldn't call them that realistic looking. They may be more naturally colored, but the bodies are just as comic book looking as ever.

I always thought that SF4 would end up being a Virtua Fighter-ish type of game, and those models remind me a lot of what I imagined the game would look like.

[Rhio2k]

NO- all current 3D fighters are using realistic models, by choosing to use more exaggerated models capcom makes SF4 stand out graphically from the other titles.


Exactly. The other companies want to look realistic, or like you're actually playing an anime...and Capcom wants to look like SFEX3+ or like Mame w/smoothing filters. Everybody's doing their own thing kinda. The fans will determine how well things go. Providing they don't switch camps.

[ramberk]

NO- all current 3D fighters are using realistic models, by choosing to use more exaggerated models capcom makes SF4 stand out graphically from the other titles.

IMO there is a bland, photo-realistic visual sameness to most games of this current generation.

Exactly. Photo-realism is rather boring. Besides it would take Capcom years to achieve 3D models that are comparable to Tekken and VF. The models in the newest VF and Tekken games did not appear over night, they are a culmination of years and years of work. Work that is built upon from earlier games.

[felineki]

Street Fighter has never been realistic, but pre-Alpha, it was much less stylized. It was still simplified and comic book-ish, but proportions were more realistic and such. Those models in the OP are more realistic than SF has ever tried to be, and I don't think it works well. Something more pre-Alpha-ish would have been nice, though. All the current official characters kind of look they've had an "SF3 Stylize" filter applied to them about a dozen consecutive times.

[proto]

the dhalsim model is great, though not really "realistic" and the sagat model... looks like a mortal kombat character.

i like his 'sim sketch way better than the model anyway. it just seems to work better, more convincing as a character. ya know?

[felineki]

I agree, the sketch is quite nice. I'd imagine it's hard to replicate that sort of thing in 3D,, though.

[crazydiamond]

This gives me faith in the SRK community. I thought everyone would be going for this type of thing but most are saying no. Good stuff.

I like the SF4 designs 100% better than these. No offense to these designers, sure it's a taste thing.

To tell you the truth I actually think I even preferred the original high contrast SF4 models. It had a rich Frazetta like quality to it not seen in anything before. The new crisp colouring is good too but we've seen it before. Feels safe, comfortable but not exactly cutting edge.

[coco_j]

http://arcadeflyers.com/?page=flyer&db=videodb&id=1150&image=6

This link right here is proof that from an early stage Capcom decided to cement a stylised look on SF.

[Kataklysmic]

To tell you the truth I actually think I even preferred the original high contrast SF4 models. It had a rich Frazetta like quality to it not seen in anything before. The new crisp colouring is good too but we've seen it before. Feels safe, comfortable but not exactly cutting edge.

I have to agree. They said they wanted to mimic the production art from past games, a lot of which did have that painterly detail. But then they did a 180 to try and match the in-game art instead. Do they want to make it look perfectly 2D?

Oh well, at least the models are still authentic. I can't see Blanka without his eyes buldging out.

[Irish-Ken]

Sure it would have 'worked' but no where NEAR as well as how it's looking now.

Team Fortress 2 is a damn good example. The stylised cell shaded look in 3D can look fucking fantastic.

It also means the game will continue to look good for longer. As with "photo realistic" games like 'tekken', 3 years down the line the new games will make that old tekken look like shit.

I remember how people thought tekken 3 was photo realistic....

Another thing to keep in mind about SF4 is a lot of the screen shots and footage don't do the game justice to how good it looks in actual full motion HD.

[Darkmeltdown]

It's a bad idea. If it looked like Street Fighter: The Movie, Ryu would look like some generic Japanese salesperson in a gi. Now imagine Kakuto Chojin. Just think of Dhalsim looking all maladjusted with his bald head shiny and sweaty. Chun-Li's thighs would be slimmed down to real proportions but with boob physics compared to DoA. Now watch Street Fighter: The Later Years. Do you really want your characters to be looking like that?!

[The Mullah]

not yet. Maybe in a couple of console generations time then photoreal SF would be cool, but until it looks like i'm looking at real people, i'd rather have cartoony style.

[Crayfish]

I think people are getting confused by what I meant by naturalistic. What I mean was the 'more' naturalistic style of Pre Alpha not photorealism. If you look at the models I posted they dont look realistic, but high definition renderings of SF2 style.
What I proposed was a return to this style.. Like the watercolor artwork for SF2CE: http://www.sfgalleries.net/art/sf2ce/series2/sf2ce-balrog.jpg


Hyper Fighting Channel. (http://www.youtube.com/Crayfis)

[Demon Dash]

Should I stick a pair of scissors into the plug socket?

[Mixah]

no, it wouldn't have worked.

[ssjtin]

Who knows? Important thing is, that's not what they're going with, the art style has been determined.

[terracotta]

YES.

But to be fair, I think a lot of disagreement is because no one defined 'realistic' properly. I could say Tekken is 'more realistic' than DBZ, but I really don't think Tekken would look better if it used DBZ style art. In contrast, I will pick any incarnation of SFA over Mortal Kombat.

The point is 'realistic' and 'crap' are two different things. i'm not too fussed how realistic SF4 looks as long as it doesn't look like crap.

[ramberk]

YES.

But to be fair, I think a lot of disagreement is because no one defined 'realistic' properly. I could say Tekken is 'more realistic' than DBZ, but I really don't think Tekken would look better if it used DBZ style art. In contrast, I will pick any incarnation of SFA over Mortal Kombat.

The point is 'realistic' and 'crap' are two different things. i'm not too fussed how realistic SF4 looks as long as it doesn't look like crap.

We may have not explicitly defined what realistic was but we all had it in our mind. When we think of "realistic 3D fighters" we think of VF and Tekken and not of DBZ or MK. No one wants SF to have MK's 2D (or 3D) realistic art style.

[Crayfish]

Ok let me re-phrase a third time. Would a SF game that looked
'like the examples I posted'
have worked?

[Crab_Lips]

For me, Street Fighter's charm increased by 1000 when they did the Alpha series. I personally prefer the more refined, anime (some say "cartoony) style that Alpha, DarkStalkers, and SF3 brought to the games. It feels more professionally done, more stylistic, and as if it stepped right out of a manga or animated film.

I was hoping SF4 did something more cell-shaded and took a different approach to the 3D fighting game. I guess it's never too late, if they ever decide to do it.

[Darkmeltdown]

Ok let me re-phrase a third time. Would a SF game that looked
'like the examples I posted'
have worked?

No. Those example I looked at would fit in right with Kakuto Chojin or any other semi-realistic game that have characters as Mortal Kombat fill ins. If I saw those in a game, next thing I know, there would be a bear in the cast along with bright flashes of color every hit that goes by.

[Helter Skelter]

The characters in Kakuto Chojin looked fucking amazing.
However, I do agree that Street Fighter would not look that nice in that styling.

[Kataklysmic]

I think people are getting confused by what I meant by naturalistic. What I mean was the 'more' naturalistic style of Pre Alpha not photorealism. If you look at the models I posted they dont look realistic, but high definition renderings of SF2 style.
What I proposed was a return to this style.. Like the watercolor artwork for SF2CE: http://www.sfgalleries.net/art/sf2ce/series2/sf2ce-balrog.jpg


Hyper Fighting Channel. (http://www.youtube.com/Crayfis)

Okay yeah, Akiman was Capcom's best artist IMO. That would've been cool to see in 3D. I prefer the oil painted look over watercolor, however. Either way, the characters should still be exaggerated.

[terracotta]

We may have not explicitly defined what realistic was but we all had it in our mind. When we think of "realistic 3D fighters" we think of VF and Tekken and not of DBZ or MK. No one wants SF to have MK's 2D (or 3D) realistic art style.

Isn't it a bit presumptuous to think that what you have in mind is the same as what everyone else does?

Think of Tekken as it is. Now try imagining it if characters had statistically more 'realistic' proportions, faces, etc - asian characters all looking short slanty eyed, pasty white caucasians, etc. Tekken art is essentially an anime style translated into 3d - it's tailored to look realistic' but also heavily stylized. Stylizing is the important bit.

[ramberk]

Okay, so I exaggerated, when folks think of a realistic art style in a 3D fighter, they think of something else other then VF and Tekken.

As for the original poster's question... The Dhalsim piece looks great. The Sagat piece not so much. I prefer stylized over realistic. So its kind of a moot argument for me.

[SlothHands]

SF2 Dictator > Fat disgusting stylized Dictator

[DieDeadDeath]

towards the original poster, yes.

i just wish street fighter would grow up like i have. thats kind of a ridiculous statement but what ever, sue me, i like it when shit gets serious.


i also like really good looking animations which sf4 is utterly failing to provide.

[Snatcher]

SF2 Dictator > Fat disgusting stylized Dictator

QFT, Dic looked BOSS in CvS2 with the SF2 style on a new sprite.

[Ultima]

The short answer is "no".

The long answer: We're already getting an updated look of SF2. SFIV is essentially using SF3 style models in 3D, and SF3 was already an updated SF2, art-wise.

Street Fighter (as in, from the first SF, as well as SF2) was always meant to be an anime-style fighter, as shown by virtually ALL JPN Street Fighter artwork. It just used an older style of colouring, either because it was a style they were familiar with, and/or because the CPSI couldn't handle the brighter colour palettes that they wanted, and had to wait until CPS2 to unleash their real vision. SF3 continued merely that trend. And now we're getting the same style in 3D (though with a heavy Ikeno influence; I would have preferred Akiman myself).

These more "realistic" models aren't necessary. They would not only be contrary to the style that Capcom has always set out with SF, but moreover, they would cause SF to stand out less than it currently does. If Street Fighter isn't going to be the most gorgeous game around like it was for SF2 and SF3 (the latter only for 2D though), then it at least needs to make sure it stands out from the fighting game crowd. Those models, while nice, wouldn't have accomplished that.

Indeed, not only has Ono has progressed with SFIV graphically in the best possible way, it's pretty much the only path SFIV has to (mass commercial) success.

[GStick]

^^^^

Agreed, he just looks serious in SF2. Like he's really gonna kick your ass and that you're going to just have to deal with it.

Alpha, not so much. Same with Sagat.

[goodm0urning]

Huh?

There is nothing about Alpha Sagat that doesn't scream, "You're about to get your ass kicked."

[KnoXX]

I would have loved to have the animation in between cartoony and realistic. I personally think it's to cartoony and the graphics remind me of a dragon ball z budokai game.

[ShinjiGohan]

I'm not sure if I'd call it a naturalistic look, but probably just a super detailed 3D model.

Would it work? If the movements are smooth enough and if its animated correctly then sure. But SF wasn't meant to be realistic. That was one of the faults that people dislike EX supposively. The art that was posted here is far more detailed and if people did have a problem with a detailed/realistic look to SF characters then it probably wouldn't be received well.

Well thats according to TAS anyway lol.

Eventually though with these 3D models, they're going to have to render everything else though when it gets that far. What I mean is the muscles contracting, characters breathing, the clenching of their fists before they punch. and while that still may be a ways away (we'd need someone who is as good as 3D modeling as they are with human anatomy to correctly render the model animations).

[crazydiamond]

I think people are getting confused by what I meant by naturalistic. What I mean was the 'more' naturalistic style of Pre Alpha not photorealism. If you look at the models I posted they dont look realistic, but high definition renderings of SF2 style.
What I proposed was a return to this style.. Like the watercolor artwork for SF2CE: http://www.sfgalleries.net/art/sf2ce/series2/sf2ce-balrog.jpg


Hyper Fighting Channel. (http://www.youtube.com/Crayfis)

I think the current SF4 looks more like this CE style than the samples you posted in your first post. The very first rendering used on sf4 (the dark contrast) was VERY street fighter II -ish.

[Hedgeshot]

I definitely would have liked more realistic style graphics. The proportions on the models just seem really... off. Currently ryu looks like the horrendous offspring of Rosie O'Dennell and a Ford F-350 Super Duty.

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t141/hedgerhog/tryuck-1.jpg

He clearly has his mother's face and his father's locking rear differential and truck-like charm.

[-Beat-]

It would look weird having two photo-realistic people fighting in the 2D aspect. Also, it would not work out with frames.

[Kataklysmic]

It would look weird having two photo-realistic people fighting in the 2D aspect. Also, it would not work out with frames.

But have people ever moved realistically in 3D fighters? There were always skipped frames, like when you got juggled for instance.

[Zandwich]

i wish it looked like street fighter the movie

[EndLeSS8]

Yes.

Personally, I like the official art for CE, Turbo and ST the best (Akiman, IIRC)

I would of liked the character designs and the gameplay to be from both SF: The Animated Movie, and SFA: Animated Movie (The 1st one, not the crappy 2nd one)
However, I think that's wayyyyyy too much work and too big of a risk if it bombed.

$0.02

[alpharudy]

new game, new designs guys. new director, new vision. i like it a lot

[Pablo_the_Mex]

I don't think Capcom could have matched VF5, so it was probably safer and better to keep with the comic book style renders.

[Green]

Street Fighter has never been realistic, but pre-Alpha, it was much less stylized. It was still simplified and comic book-ish, but proportions were more realistic and such.
Ryu got his shins shortened...

[Cronopio]

I personally think that SFIV would have looked way better with less exaggerated proportions but still using the 'painting' look. Not as overly cartoony like it's right now, but not attempting to go for hyperrealism either.

Still, I like SFIV's current look.

[jabhadouken]

i wish it looked like street fighter the movie

That's some funny shit. :rofl:

[crazydiamond]

I don't think Capcom could have matched VF5, so it was probably safer and better to keep with the comic book style renders.

I don't think Capcom would have wanted to match VF5. Because then it wouldn't feel like Street Fighter.

[Yurinka]

A realistic SFIV wouldn't worked because:

a) All the other SF games (except SF the movie) weren't realistic. They're more anime-like.
b) The "realistic" 3D fighting games like Virtua Fighter, Tekken or Soul Calibur are more experienced doing this kind of graphics and would be harder to compete against them than to open a new way.

So I think the actual SFIV 3D style fits better with the "SF style and spirit", is more personal, more artistic, more unique and evades to compete graphics-wise directly with the other 3D games, where SFEX mainly failed.

[Ryu1999]

HF still has the best artwork, probably should have went with that artylse for ST Remix

http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters3/ryu-turbofix1.gif

http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/guile-turbofix.jpg

[*Onslaught*]

HF still has the best artwork, probably should have went with that artylse for ST Remix

http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters3/ryu-turbofix1.gif

http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/guile-turbofix.jpg

That looks awful. :wasted:

[Chrisis]

For Guile it must be clobbering time as his hands are huge o.o.

[centennial]

i wish it looked like street fighter the movie

Heh, no need to.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4UdQVYkCZg

[terracotta]

yeah Guile is a superskrull in that drawing. and Ryu has some cactus punch going on.

j/k those are some of the better drawings. it should be possible to take realistic renders and stylize them into that.

[crazydiamond]

That looks awful. :wasted:

There's nothing awful about it. It's just drawn in exagerated perspective. Can't anyone see that? Technically and stylistically better than most fecal matter that is passed off as video game art these days. Let alone modern American comic book art. *shudder*

[ToyRobotTerror]

re: topic

no

[OrangeCat]

Mebbe. The problem is that you see to differentiate between your competitors. While SF has iconic characters by itself, the examples you shown look WAAAAAY too much like Tekken character. That might work against Capcom because it would create an unnatural feel to it all if suddenly what we've associated with Tekken style of realism (or quality) doing non-Tekken moves. At least Soul Calibur has it's own style different enough from Tekken that it doesn't need to adopt a specific style.

The only problem I have with the art style is wishing it could have been a bit more paintbrushed; although I guess with the limited amounts reserved for the new gameplay specials seem to indicate had they done that...I'd get tired of it quickly. So far it looks good.

OC

[EVERDRED]

Heh, no need to.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4UdQVYkCZg

check this one out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL9ETeDDsV4&NR=1

[Futch]

http://arcadeflyers.com/?page=flyer&db=videodb&id=1150&image=6

This link right here is proof that from an early stage Capcom decided to cement a stylised look on SF.

That looks awesome. Who did those!?

[BaSiK_TeKniK]

no not really. theres something about it that keeps it's "cartoon" structure.

[terracotta]

http://www.pixolator.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=51109&page=1&pp=15

[EndLeSS8]

http://www.pixolator.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=51109&page=1&pp=15

That Zangief is really good, but he just needs to be taller.

[terracotta]

i think the artist started with that in mind actually - to me his proportions looked just right in the unclothed models. it's when they add his belt that he starts to look kinda pudgy, since it goes up to halfway from his waist to his chest. in the end it looks like he wanted the proportions to resemble that piece of official art that he used for reference. if he just made the belt smaller he'd probably look more like Alpha Gief.