Universal (Char Specific) Chun Mixups and Combo info :)

[RisunoMeijin]

Over the last few days, I have been documenting Chun vs. specific character information, and have a general idea now of how to apply these tactics universally.
I play chun/sent/psy and chun/sent/capcom, although I tried to make much of this apply to any team choice you may have for chun, high or low tier. If anyone would like to add or dispute anything let me know and I will edit after testing. I hope people find this useful. :)

Universal Chun-Li mixups:

IOH
-----
Type 1: call assist, n.jump stomp, AD, short, (slight pause) RH, (land) s.jab, s.RH, Upper Shom

Type 2:call assist, n.jump short, stomp, AD, short (slight pause) RH, (land) s.jab, Hazan Tenshoukyaku

Both types work with CapCom, Psy, and Cammy AAA. Combo can be slightly altered for Cyke, just wait untill you land from stomp and SJ into the upper shom. Tron and Storm -projectile types also work to continue combo with the proper timing on assist call.

Type 2 is used to break super armor. Ironically enough, the characters Chun cannot upper or lower shom as of right now are the same ones with super armor; we call them the big 3. (Juggernaut, Sent, Hulk) Other than these three, Upper Shom works midscreen and Lower shom works in corner and close to corner on all characters.
Type 1 therefore works on all other characters. The only exception to this is if you are using psy in which case kobun and roll will not be picked up after stomp. In the event type 1 connects, your best damage option is as follows.

IOH --- Assist hits --- upper shom to wall --- lower shom --- TenshoukyakuxxKikoshou xN (lower shom in between to build meter) --- DHC or Reset --- Guard break incoming char

Once again, this works on everyone but the big 3, remember some characters must be hit with the 3 hits in the air during upper shom instead of 2 to be taken to the wall. I use sj.short, sj.strong, stomp.

Lower Mixup
---------------
c.lk + capcom, s.mp (SJC) upper shom
c.lk + capcom, s.mp (SJC) AD (pause) lk (pause) RH lower shom

c.lk + psy, c.mk , s.lp, s.RH upper shom
c.lk + psy c.mk , dash in, lower shom

c.lk + cyke, c.mk , (pause) SJ, upper shom

c.RH SJC
-----------
Try calling your ground zone assist (Sent drones, Storm typhoon) when or before you c.RH. If c.RH connects, SJC and homing AD toward your opponent. Good opportunity for mixups, crosses, and mind games. For example with storm, no roll = launch or super, yes roll = pin down on wakeup with you on top of them.

Wall Reset
--------------
Many people dont seem to know this, but a wall throw with Chun can reset many combos into the lower shom. This can be done on anyone but the Big 3, with some degree of difficulty on certain hitboxes such as cable. (on characters you find it difficult to lower shom on the wall, you can always do one rep to Hazan) Methods are as follows:

1) wall throw, s.lp, s.mp while opponent is falling (works on 80% of the cast) lower shom

some opponents push you back to far to get the s.mp in after the throw, here you have options;

2a) wall throw, s.lp, walk up wall throw (faster than you think)

2b) wall throw, c.lk (juggle not rollable) s.mk (SJC) lower shom

some opponents push you back to far to get even a s.jab in....for many of these you can:

3) c.lk (juggle not rollable) + psy, dash up, lower shom

Some opponents push you back to far and fall to fast for a juggle. sent is a good example. Are these characters safe from high damaging wall resets? Hell no. Call the drones before you throw and immediately start TenshoukyakuxxKikoshou after the last drone hits.

So what does that leave open for discussion? Teching throws. j.lp + psylocke and tech hit guard break the fool that tried to escape a chun li wall reset.

As mentioned before, lower shom on wall leads to;

TenshoukyakuxxKikoshou xN, (lower shom to build meter) DHC or Reset, GB incoming char.

Midscreen Reset
---------------------

There are many options here, just be creative. Lower and upper shom can both be reset all over the place, use assists like drones, rocks, and typhoons to your advantage. My personal new favorite reset as previously mentioned in the vid thread:

Ground inf, or Shom dash under cross into:

Launch + Drones SJC AD under opponent

at this point you will either see them blocking (drones onscreen), not blocking, or mashing jab or short

Blocking: Throw into drones (land) Kikoshou
Not Blocking: Neutral RH into drones (land) Kikoshou or Hazan
Mashing: Neutral RH into drones (land) Kikoshou

If the opponent has alot of life left and is not a member of big 3 you can go to upper shom instead of super out of this reset. If the opponent techs the throw you can tech hit guard break with j.short (land) Hazan.


Ground Infinite
-------------------

No Go:

Spidey, Venom, Strider, Roll, Chun, Kobun, Rockman, Wolvie, B-Wolvie, Son-Son, Marrow, Jin


-N.jump/SJC AD, lk, FP, (pause) neutral RH (works better on short ppl):

Bulleta, Ryu, Hayato, Morrigan, Sakura, Ken, Dan


-N.jump/SJC AD, lk, FP, (forward) RH:

Everyone else =)


Ground infinite hits Sent and Juggernaut while they are crouching. If ground inf connects a few good options are as follows. Keep in mind this does alot of damage untill around 20 hits, so don't stop the infinite too soon.

-Ground infinite --- reset midscreen ---- super

-Ground infinite --- reset wall throw ---- supers

-Ground infinite --- call drones ---- QCF + KKxxHSF


QCF + KK invincibility
-------------------------
Activating this super will net you several frames of invincibility as you are moving forward rapidly. This can be used to bypass alot of stuff. You can go through Shockwave, Drones, and ground typhoons to name a few. Get familiar with recognizing a good situation and you will find yourself punishing typhoonxxhail, and sent chip attempts.


Hazan Tenshoukyakuxx....
-------------------------------
When sent is trying to chip you with HSF, keep in mind you can not only go through the super with QCF+KK, but also DHC before the first wave hits with Hazan to make the DHC character safe while punishing sent. HazanxxHail works just like tempestxxhail in this regard. HazanxxProton Cannon comes to mind.


....xxKikoshou invincibility
--------------------------
Dont forget you can DHC to chun with this super to completly negate chip from many sources. Storm trying to HS your capcom when its just capcom/chun left? Negate the chip and get chun out there with a quick Captain Sword xx Kikoshou. Many other ways to use this to your advantage if you use your noggin'.


Guard Breaks
-----------------
-j.jab + psy ,launch, upper shom to wall, lower shom, kikoshou xN

-s.jump/n.jump AD, lk, (pause) (Guard Breaks) RH, (land) s.jab, s.RH, upper shom to wall, lower shom, kikoshu xN

-------------------------------------------

I hope this is enough to get many started on Chun. If you have any questions feel free to PM me about specifics, or if you want the actual list of what works on every char in the game. I tried to make it where no one would need to wade through it, but some ppl like to have stuff like that on hand. Other than that, there is still much more to be discovered with chun, Shin Chan and I are working on ways to upper shom the Big 3, which could change her game plan significantly against these characters. There are an untold number of wonderful midscreen resets to discover, even though the wall throw one is pretty much broken as hell if you get the tech hit guard break down. People need to play with chun more! She has one touch death! She is good! More in depth look at vs. Top tier coming soon!

[shoultzula]

can you explain the timing of the infinite vs character sizes? the air to ground infinite to be exact.

dope thread by the way.

[RisunoMeijin]

Thank you sir!

My notes are as follows:

No Upper Shom:

Sent, Juggernaut, Hulk

3-hit upper shom (I use short, strong, stomp) :

Doom, Blackheart, Jin, Shuma

2-hit upper shom:

Everyone else

Only other thing is that I found it is easier to relaunch some hitboxes (for me) with s.lp, s.mp, s.RH instead of just s.lp. I found this to work well on omega red and in some situations cable.

I pretty much use the same timing for all char, only thing that changes is the delay on the sj.RH. There is a sweet spot on the hitbox for this normal that you will get a feel for, instead of changing the timing for ppl such as doom and blackheart where it is hard to get to this spot, I just add in the strong punch before air stomp to put them higher above you.

You need to try out that c.lk + capcom, s.mp (SJC) lk, stomp, AD, RH, starter...that shit is too dope looking.

just thought i would add

When meeting air to air, sj.lk (sj.mp) stomp, (short pause)AD lk, (short pause) RH (land) s.lp

Also getting directly under opponent and doing j.(neutral) RH + psy , land, s.lp is good.

[RisunoMeijin]

Sooo....2 things.

Lower shom works 100% on sent midscreen all the way to wall. Try to shom him higher than normal and do the lk to cancel the AD a little sooner than usual. This means shortly, air to air hit confirm on sent or psy on flying sent = death or at least 60-70% before reset. Just need to mess around abit. I will test on Juggs and Hulk today.

Maybe im just slow to notice...but chuns j.short hits almost anyone crouching. I mean mags, psy, storm, anyone. This really opens up her game, cause now we can:

j.short + (capcom, psy, cammy, cyke, whatever) stomp, AD lk, (pause) RH, s.jab, s.RH into upper shom midscreen.

2 piece IOH that is pretty damn safe on block. Pretty hard, but worth the effort imo. :wink:

More stuff later....lots of resets, and talk of a corner unblock on sent (AD to apex of wall pinned sent), as well as a unblock for other chars (hitbox cross up on forward.FP anyone :o). lmao. not even kidding.

[RisunoMeijin]

Resets

Midscreen

*Call drones, launch, HCB + RH
*Call drones, s.jab, launch, HCB + RH

Cancels the delay on launcher, pins opponent between you and drones, or on contact sets up a mixup game.

Delay the cancel on RH to cause the HCB + K to cross up (and still hit high xD) while the drones keep you safe + give you a hi/lo/throw relayer....stupid. This method works perfect on c.storm....mess with the distance abit to get some other chars...im on this believe it. SERIOUSLY TRY THIS ON ALL BLOCK C.STORM. You will get an idea of where chun + drones is headed.

----------------

*Launch + Storm (SJC) lk, mk, (forward) RH, land jab

Jab can be canceled into Hazan, or you can dash under and mix it up.

----------------

Wall

*s.lp + psy, s.mp (down + back) RH (land) throw

Good simple reset into wall throw....can be done out of ground infinite, or the upper and lower shoms if you still have your assist call.

*s.lp + drones, reverse throw, (pause) wall throw

Good reset out of ground inf, does significant damage, and leads to the shom.

--------------

Risu Signature Chun combo (i love doing this shit out of guard break so much I have to TM it) xD

*GB, launch, upper shom 1 rep, land, s.lp, s.mp, (SJC) AD, lk, FP (pause) neutral RH (one hit) {OTG}, c.jab

Sooooo much damage, sets up for a dash under cross up or a really quick throw (back into more nastiness) reminds me of 3x fierce c.jab....so much damage into good reset. If you end c.lp s.mp you break FS back into lower shom.

Remember if you end with c.lp, throw and they tech the throw to guard break with j.lp + psy, or solo GB.
-------------

More stuff later....working on sent corner unblockable....so far the most ive gotten from (forward) FP is that in corner as a meaty (timed correctly) it goes directly into lower shom and has zero recovery time. Excellent meaty.

[RisunoMeijin]

So...messing around with ai on all block. You can do

j.short, stomp, ad lk, mk, (forward) RH on standing mags, cable, and several others characters. Crouch blocking at any point in this sequence will leave you open to launch.

So...5 piece overhead into infinite midscreen anyone? :amazed:

You can call drones, do this, and relayer off the bat...pushes opponent to the wall too damn fast which is just where you want them...this is getting more and more interesting people.

[jaded]

dude this is pretty sick stuff. Your chun has got to be pretty good, even if you can only do 1/4 of these things in a real match.

Any chance we could get Magnetro in on this to make a tutorial vid showcasing all of this stuff?

It really looks like you took Shin's stuff to the next level, the applicability level, and I have to admit, if anything, now I know you can do all of this stuff for sure (rather than just theoretically speaking). There's no way to come up with these resets otherwise.



See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p5eMYtSruI&feature=related for an example of a great tutorial that showcases everything.

I'm sure Magnetro would be down do to this.

[RisunoMeijin]

Haha...All this stuff is very doable in real match.

Ive been playing with chun vs. some really good GA people and getting results better than I had expected, this has driven me to play her more.

I have been talking to Shin alot, and we have been collaborating alot. He still has alot more tricks up his sleeve than I do im pretty sure, and i never even wouldve started on this if it wasnt for him, so yeah I dunno about taking it to the next level. Not alone at least for sure. Shin is the Chun-Li master.

If anything, ill get a combovideo on youtube soon, and showcase the blockstrings and that risu combo...those are really the most impressive things to me about her right now....

I have to thank you as well Jaded, a big part of my execution level up came from trying to prove her stuff was match doable...training mode on wall I can lower shom to dizzy like 6/10 times. Upper shom I get 3 or 4 reps almost every time. That is enough to take them to the wall the way i see it. Anyway... I appreciate the kind words.

[RisunoMeijin]

One thing I do need Magnetro's help on is the sent unblock...

We need to test this on a programmable pad to take some of the randomness out of it. It catches sents turn around frame if preformed perfectly, and if you don't catch the turn around frame, I get random blocks holding either direction. You can get into this many other ways....but for now I will just list this one, it is rollable obviously xD.

sent pinned on wall

c.RH (SJC) air dash when you get to the point right above where sents head would be on wake up. As sent wakes up, preform a heavy attack (to break super armor on first hit) I get really ambiguous glitchy shit when doing neutral RH or forward RH...

Sent holding back on wake up
1.) Sent gets hit, no block from holding back
2.) Sent turns around 2 or 3 times and blocks facing opposite of chun
3.) Sent turns around and blocks other way even though no direction change for block applied :\

Sent holding forward on wake up
1.)" "
2.)" "
3.)" "

the kicker is...If you call the drones with the c.RH...I cannot imagine any person blocking this xD. You can recreate this situation with no roll chance by doing a forced roll combo on sent close to the wall.

If you have the time to test this at any point, maybe we can find a way to 100% either an unblockable or a really ambiguous cross up...Many ways to put sent in this situation out of her infinites...so maybe Ground Inf = sent death if we work this out. We need to get on this temporarily people.

[Magnetro]

You should talk to mixup. I gave him a capture card for this very reason. All you guys making long posts about MvC2 stuff with lowtiers need someone (not me) to capture it on video. Talk to mixup or shoult who visits mixup a lot, they can record stuff now.

FYI the capture card I gave mixup was 10 bucks. It's on newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815100120&Tpk=capture%2bcard

[RisunoMeijin]

Thank you very much for noticing this post...I have been talking to mixup actually, maybe I will go down to Florida soon.

After speaking with mixup, and some more testing, I have concluded this attack is not at all "unblockable", just a very ambiguous cross up. Depending on the timing of attack, + the normal you use, + the timing of AD, this attack will hit on front or behind, even though with proper timing you will always appear behind sent.

Doesnt seem to be any way other than proper timing to make it always hit one way or the other...still testing.

Thank you again for posting Magnetro.

[jaded]

Just as a note, I noticed certain frames in qcf+kk may in fact be invincible just after it starts, momentarily, as you posted, but there DOES appear to be a startup time prior to that where Chun is NOT invincible. When you speak of going through HSF, I think you are able to pass through when the drones are not hitting chun during this startup period.


I did s. jab, s. strong xx qcf+kk to try to finish off a point blank Sent with no life left, but he actually c. fierce'd me before the super came out and I lost lol. I was pretty amazed, but I did see the frames where you can see Chun is about to start her kicks.... it's conceivable there's a startup (you can plainly see it).

In retrospect, I should have qcf+pp, but I thought (and he might have had enough life to) push block out of it and kill me.

[rogueish 1]

s. jab, s. strong qcf+p cancel qcf+kk would probably have worked a little better

[Shin-Chan]

Just as a note, I noticed certain frames in qcf+kk may in fact be invincible just after it starts, momentarily, as you posted, but there DOES appear to be a startup time prior to that where Chun is NOT invincible. When you speak of going through HSF, I think you are able to pass through when the drones are not hitting chun during this startup period.

indeed, when he is raising her leg, before the flash of the super, she has no invincibility, but after that she do have. an example, if u r 1/2 or closer and sentinel do HSF, u can do c.hp no the first drones then xx hcf+kk. the super flash make the super goes invincible throu the second row and then hit sentniel =).


I did s. jab, s. strong xx qcf+kk to try to finish off a point blank Sent with no life left, but he actually c. fierce'd me before the super came out and I lost lol. I was pretty amazed, but I did see the frames where you can see Chun is about to start her kicks.... it's conceivable there's a startup (you can plainly see it).

In retrospect, I should have qcf+pp, but I thought (and he might have had enough life to) push block out of it and kill me.

if u were sure he was blocking, u could do s.hk, 100 kicks xx 1000 kicks super.

[Tech Romancer]

I have a few questions: Is there any guaranteed way to combo into the QCF + KK super other than of a cr. RK OTG? Because since this is tech rollable, it is punishable since this super lasts awhile.

Also, my team consists of Chun, BlackHeart, and BB Hood. Generally I start of with Chun and use her on point. Sometimes I start out with BH and use him to build meter. Of course Chun's AAA assist is used to relieve pressure after landing.

My assist types: Chun: B
Blackheart: A
B.B. Hood: B

Generally, I try to rush down with Chun, using BH's ground assist and BB Hood 's projectiles to zone because Chun is lacking in the long range department. If I have meter, and BH's ground assist hits, I combo into the qcf+KK super (not sure if its rollable). The aerial rave is my bread and butter, which can reach 10+ hits if you master the triple jump air combo with her, and I use j.Short > j.Forward \/ d.c.Jab > c.Short > c.Strong > c.Fierce as a ground BnB combo.

My problem is how to get more mileage out of this team, and also I need tips on how to super jump cancel in to her air dash for a brutal mix-up game.

Tips?

[Deathfist]

Does IOH mean Instant Over Head? Also, please repost the Shoms here to keep everything together.

[Tech Romancer]

Does IOH mean Instant Over Head? Also, please repost the Shoms here to keep everything together.

Yeah, I think that's what IOH means.

Aren't the shoms already included in the original post?

[RisunoMeijin]

Upper Shom;

s.RH, (sjc) lk, {mp}, down + roundhouse, AD/F lk, RH(second hit only) land, s.lp, repeat

use the mp to control height

Lower Shom;

s.lp, s.mp, (sjc) AD/F lk, RH (second hit only) land, repeat

this one you want them about the same height as sjc cancels with Iron Guy, you can set it up from a wall throw, upper shom, or guard break.

there is tons of talk of the timing for these combos in Shins Video Thread, this thread is/was more for what works on which sprites/hitboxes.

[RisunoMeijin]

I have a few questions: Is there any guaranteed way to combo into the QCF + KK super other than of a cr. RK OTG? Because since this is tech rollable, it is punishable since this super lasts awhile.

Also, my team consists of Chun, BlackHeart, and BB Hood. Generally I start of with Chun and use her on point. Sometimes I start out with BH and use him to build meter. Of course Chun's AAA assist is used to relieve pressure after landing.

My assist types: Chun: B
Blackheart: A
B.B. Hood: B

Generally, I try to rush down with Chun, using BH's ground assist and BB Hood 's projectiles to zone because Chun is lacking in the long range department. If I have meter, and BH's ground assist hits, I combo into the qcf+KK super (not sure if its rollable). The aerial rave is my bread and butter, which can reach 10+ hits if you master the triple jump air combo with her, and I use j.Short > j.Forward \/ d.c.Jab > c.Short > c.Strong > c.Fierce as a ground BnB combo.

My problem is how to get more mileage out of this team, and also I need tips on how to super jump cancel in to her air dash for a brutal mix-up game.

Tips?

You can combo into DP+KK out of launch, and you can shom to DP+KxxQCF+KK, though it doesnt hit clean. Most of the time i would suggest DP+KxxQCF+PP.

Her mixup game doesnt need sj. It helps in some situations, but for starters, like beginning chun use:

n.jump AD/F...RH (long range overhead)

n.jump AD/FxxFP (medium range overhead)

n.jump lk + assist, down + RH (close range overhead)

c.lk + assist (low)

c.RH + assist (mid range low) can be xx to HCB + K on block or whiff

wall throw into launch

mid screen throw into assist

:wgrin:

[Tech Romancer]

You can combo into DP+KK out of launch, and you can shom to DP+KxxQCF+KK, though it doesnt hit clean. Most of the time i would suggest DP+KxxQCF+PP.

Her mixup game doesnt need sj. It helps in some situations, but for starters, like beginning chun use:

n.jump AD/F...RH (long range overhead)

n.jump AD/FxxFP (medium range overhead)

n.jump lk + assist, down + RH (close range overhead)

c.lk + assist (low)

c.RH + assist (mid range low) can be xx to HCB + K on block or whiff

wall throw into launch

mid screen throw into assist

:wgrin:

Have any tips for the team chemistry?

[RisunoMeijin]

Have any tips for the team chemistry?

Only problem I see is fast protection for chun on point, and safe DHC's. Blackhearts assist gets stuffed out if someone is rushing you more often than not, and it would be hard to gain momentum and establish an offense without a reliable way to break your opponents attack patterns.

A bigger problem is if chun is hurting, and you wanna get her out and bring next person in. Her best non comboing DHC option is DP+KKxxwhatever, and I dont see much safety in blackhearts supers after this, especially against anyone with a good airdash or projectile super.

I do think you could make some really nasty blockstring patterns with chun/bulleta though. using the rocket to fill gaps in offense would work nicely and let you relayer in many situations im sure. try messing around with:

c.RH + bulleta, (kara RH option) HCB+K

im not trying this in training mode or anything, but im sure you can magic series, calling bulleta at some point, use a c.FP or c.RH to push them back HCB hits overhead, followed by the rocket to keep them in blockstun. At this point you can high, low, or throw, or else keep the blockstings coming. Be wary of pushblocks, and try to create patterns that can get around them, so if you use one, and they do push at the right spot, they stay in the pattern. In most cases, these patterns are crossups when they are not push blocked, so its all part of the mixup game anyway.

[Tech Romancer]

Only problem I see is fast protection for chun on point, and safe DHC's. Blackhearts assist gets stuffed out if someone is rushing you more often than not, and it would be hard to gain momentum and establish an offense without a reliable way to break your opponents attack patterns.

A bigger problem is if chun is hurting, and you wanna get her out and bring next person in. Her best non comboing DHC option is DP+KKxxwhatever, and I dont see much safety in blackhearts supers after this, especially against anyone with a good airdash or projectile super.

I do think you could make some really nasty blockstring patterns with chun/bulleta though. using the rocket to fill gaps in offense would work nicely and let you relayer in many situations im sure. try messing around with:

c.RH + bulleta, (kara RH option) HCB+K

im not trying this in training mode or anything, but im sure you can magic series, calling bulleta at some point, use a c.FP or c.RH to push them back HCB hits overhead, followed by the rocket to keep them in blockstun. At this point you can high, low, or throw, or else keep the blockstings coming. Be wary of pushblocks, and try to create patterns that can get around them, so if you use one, and they do push at the right spot, they stay in the pattern. In most cases, these patterns are crossups when they are not push blocked, so its all part of the mixup game anyway.

To fix the protection problem, I'm thinking maybe change Blackheart's assist type to AAA. That's about a CapCom AAA with tracking, correct? That might help, although I'll have to keep BH safe.

For DHC from Chun to BH, I think the qcb+PP super is my safest bet. It recovers fairly well and is not punishable from a distance (I think), might be trouble if DHCed up close.

I'm in training mode right now; I'll try to develop some strings/mix-ups with Bulleta.

Finally, how do I Super Jump Cancel? This is my first encounter with the action, I'm baffled.

[RisunoMeijin]

To fix the protection problem, I'm thinking maybe change Blackheart's assist type to AAA. That's about a CapCom AAA with tracking, correct? That might help, although I'll have to keep BH safe.

For DHC from Chun to BH, I think the qcb+PP super is my safest bet. It recovers fairly well and is not punishable from a distance (I think), might be trouble if DHCed up close.

I'm in training mode right now; I'll try to develop some strings/mix-ups with Bulleta.

Finally, how do I Super Jump Cancel? This is my first encounter with the action, I'm baffled.

It is really hard to SJC at first, it may seem close to impossible even. After you get it though its not that bad.

what you wanna do is the same thing you do when you launch. think of it like this, if your s.RH whiffs or is blocked, you are stuck in delay unless you xx into something. but if it connects, you can cancel that delay with a super jump.

try to go to training mode, and do s.lp, s.mp on a non super armor opponent. try to time a super jump immediatly as the s.mp hits. remember to reset to neutral and not be still walking forward before you do the super jump.

after you get this down, you can try the lower shom, which is considerably harder, instead of posting here though, you can send me PM's from now on, alot of this stuff is pretty basic, no offense, and we can work it out over aim (tehrisusama) or PM's.

just hit me up, peace.

[launchpad]

good job zach. play her against me lol

[RisunoMeijin]

Ive beat you with her :p

[RisunoMeijin]

Random Chun Reset:


Ground inf to wall, s.RH + sent PA, (SJC) low AD/F RH (whiff to land) ground to air (directly underneath) s.lp, s.mp, sent hits, lower shom

Can do s.RH instead of s.lp to hit other side for mixup

Can also do s.lp wall throw for mixup

Small char wall trap :lovin:


{s.lp + sent, c.FPxxHCB + K (drones blocked) relayer into n.jump AD/F FP, n.RH (2 blocked hits)}

[RisunoMeijin]

Bumped just to say Ive got a chun vid coming out sometime over the next couple of weeks.

Also wanted to point to some chun matches recently uploaded on youtube :woot::woot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nx9HEOgdZI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvcN42grUQI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K48zaKuVF8Y&feature=related

The vid is most likely gonna be divided into 2 sections; a 10 minute-ish tutorial showing blockstrings, combo options, mixups using almost every viable anti-air, and a Djb-13 eat your heart out resets vid. Updates and a transcript for the vids will be posted here.

[jaded]

awesome start. Any chance you could put up more vids, maybe with more infinites and vs. good teams?

Thanks for the updates so far.

[RisunoMeijin]

awesome start. Any chance you could put up more vids, maybe with more infinites and vs. good teams?

Thanks for the updates so far.

Im gonna try to get some chun vs. the best in my state vids recorded.

[RisunoMeijin]

Blockstrings vs. Normal To Large (anyone that j.lk hits crouching)
-------------------------------------------------

Step 1: Force a stand block
-----------------------------------

-Very Close/Wakeup : j.lk

-Medium Range : n.jump AD lk

-Full Screen : n.jump AD (pause) lk (can cross up on hit)

Ok, so they do not want to get hit by the infinite. You do not want to be counter hit into ROM, HSF, TyphoonXXHail, LAxxLS, Proton Cannon, you get the picture. Apply pressure and force a stand block when you get the chance. On the event your attack is c.blocked and you connect, do the following:

-Very Close/Wakeup : [j.lk connects] ,call psy, down + RH, AD, lk, (pause) RH (1hit) - (Shom)

-Medium Range : [n.jump AD lk connects] chain j.mk, RH (one hit) dash up launch - (Shom)

-Full Screen : [AD lk connects or crosses up and connects] chain j.FP, land, launch - (Shom)

---

On the event you force a stand block do the following:

-Very Close/Wakeup : j.lk, down + RH, AD, lk, lk, {landing}down + RH

-Medium Range : n.jump AD lk, lk, {landing}down + RH

-Full Screen : n.jump AD lk (or crossup lk) lp, {landing}down + RH

Using these block strings in a non wake up situation, if timed correctly, are enough to stop the opponent from calling their assist, assuming they dont call it before the j.lk is blocked. Remember, play smart, apply pressure, then force the stand block. After the initial block, no counter assist is coming out for the duration of this block string.

--------
Frame advantage in these strings
--------

The next step is understanding the down + RH normal on the next level. According to magnetro, and supported by Joos data, is the block stun formula:


*Active Frames + Guard Stiffness frames = number of frames in blockstun

*Chun's j.down+RH - hits on first frame - 14 active frames


Now what happens if we create a block string where we land and stomp at nearly the same time, forcing it to be blocked as a string ender? A rough estimate on my part is that preforming the {landing} stomp is gonna take 3-6 active frames depending on how well it is preformed. Assuming we drop 8 to 11 frames off this move and force it to be blocked upon our landing (instant recovery) this gives us an 8-11 frame advantage upon landing. More than ample time to re layer high (j.lk 3-5 frames) or low (c.lk 4 frames) while the opponent is stuck in block stun....But wait.......we havent figured in guard stiffness yet ~.~! So using sent:

*Sentinel - guard stiffness of 8 frames - blocks {landing} stomp with an 11 frame advantage. = +19 frame advantage on landing.

+19!!! Enough time to do hi/low without having to worry about counter hits or assists? Especially considering that whether crouching or standing sent misses a high or low block on the ground, he is getting hit with a easy mode 100% ground infinite combo. Just keep in mind that on wakeup people get a free assist call, and force them to block high into a {landing} stomp. Lets take Sents example and replace with other top 3.

*Magneto - Guard stiffness of 12 frames - blocks {landing} stomp with a 10 frame advantage = +22 frame advantage on landing.

*Storm - Guard stiffness of 20 frames - blocks {landing} stomp with an 8 frame advantage = +28 frame advantage on landing.

*Cable - Guard stiffness of 25 frames - blocks {landing} stomp with an 11 frame advantage = +36 frame advantage on landing.


------
Solo infinite Block string (with no push block or block mistakes)
-----
During these +18 - +39 frame advantage situations, as previously stated, your opponent may not counter hit without Guard cancel, or call an assist. You may not immediately throw your opponent either. What you can do is go hi/or low and all they can do is block, push block, or get hit.

So assuming some never push blocked or blocked low and got hit with the overhead, you have a solo mid screen infinite block string:

{j.lk, down +RH, AD, lk, lk [landing] down+RH} xN

The frame advantage on landing stomp allows you to re layer high for free, if they block your second overhead attempt, you keep them in block stun until you get back around to the next {landing} stomp, another +18-39 situation.

----------
Using frame advantage block strings to promote mix up
----------

So basically, in these extreme frame advantage situations, you are forcing a reaction from the opponent while the opponents options are severely limited. Main options are as follows:

-Block High
-Block Low
-Push block

If you notice someone blocking (high) your overheads a lot in these frame advantage situations, your options are:

-c.RH + drones-(SJC) homing AD (wake up mixup)
-c.RH + drones-xxHCB +K (cross up overhead)
-c.lk (hit confirm) c.mk + psy
-c.lk c.mp (SJC) ground infinite

If you notice someone intent on blocking your lows in these frame advantage situations, which you will (you are landing after all, its instinct) you have these options:

-vary timing on stomp to either whiff and go low faster, or hit overhead late. land launch.
-j.lk (hit confirm) call psy, stomp, AD, lk, pause, 1hit RH (shom)
-j.lk (block confirm) AD, lk, lk, {landing} stomp, back into frame advantage
-s.lp + drones, s.mp, s.RH (whiff cancel) xxHCB + K (cross up high into drones into shom)

The last option, push block, is very situational. Different push blocks can lead to many things. Chun can get guard canceled, they can get kept in trap if you learn to watch for certain guard cancel attempts as well however. Anti guard cancel tools to keep in mind when you see push blocks mid chain:

-s.lp +drones, rocks, what ever pin down assist, down+back+RH flip when you see push block
-call drones, HCB+RH when you see push block
-n.jump AD forward + RH to stuff people trying to super jump out from far away (good push block)
-s.jump throw to match people trying to super jump out with a (bad push block)
-let people out and reposition if you think you see a good guard cancel coming.

I figured since this stuff is in the vid, i would go ahead and post it up, since an explanation is needed with the transcript anyway.

[Slangin Smilez]

Any Vids Of Her Ground Infinite??

[RisunoMeijin]

If you mean the old ground infinite yes...

If you mean the infinite blockstun without pushblock, not untill my vid is finished around the end of this month.

[Slangin Smilez]

Yes And Yes Lol..Well I Guess I Gotta Search..Thanks Though..Can't Wait To See The Vid

[RisunoMeijin]

Mm...search for Shin Chan Chun Li Mvc2 on youtube and look at shins first 2 vids.

They have the ground infinite, as well as the upper and lower shom infinites.
She also has a rejump infinite you can find on zachd.com in the infinites section, there will be more variations of this coming out soon.

You can search my SRK name on youtube and get some chun li stuff. Like I said, 2 vids coming out towards the end of this month. Over 40 minutes of footage to edit down, and im still not done recording.

What chun teams are you playing right now? How long have you been playing marvel? How long have you been playing chun?

[Slangin Smilez]

I've Been Playing Marvel Since It Came Out...I Like Her With Sentinel And Cyke..But Im Not Too Good With Them Either...Upper And Lower Shom Look So Beast..Also I Saw The Ground Infinite Too..I Love How Quick She Is..I Don't Know I Kinda Want To Use Her As A Surprise You Know..Have People Thinking WTF??...I'm Pretty Persintent When Learning New Combos..So I'm Open To Anything That Involves Her

[RisunoMeijin]

Yeah man,

That is a good team. Jump lk + cyke stomp for overhead into lower/upper shoms. c.lk + cyke, sj lk stomp for lower mixup into either.

Her blockstrings are nasty. Combine those with drones and you got some really tricky mixup.

Runaway with stomps and youve got alpha counter psy/cyke into sent setups.

And youve got those nasty DHC's into sent;

~upper shom, tenshoukyakuXXkikoshouXXHSF
~lower shom, s.lpxxhazanxxHSF
~ground infinite, drones hit, 1000ksXXHSF

since you dont have psy for guard breaks, try to mess around with sj.lk AD lk (pause) RH. It all links if they take it and breaks guard with normal block. If they pushblock whiff stomp to land and sj back up, repeat pattern.

[Slangin Smilez]

Cool Sounds Good..I Can't Land The Upper Or Lower Shoms Or The Ground...Can You Give Me The Step By Step In What I Sould Do

[RisunoMeijin]

Try:

c.lk + cyke, c.mk, dash, sj. lk, down +RH, AD, lk, (pause) RH (1 hit) land, s.lp, DP + KK

then put the AI on crouch, and try:

j.lk +cyke, down + RH, (pause) AD lk, (pause) RH (1 hit) land s.lp, DP + KK

for the ground infinite practice:

{dash s.lp, s.mp, SJC, AD lk, FP, forward + RH, (land)} xN

the reason to practice with the SJC is because it is the same SJC you use in lower shom. when you get all three of these things down, practice replacing s.lp DP+KK with:

{s.lp, s.mp, SJC AD, lk, (pause) RH (1 hit) land} xN

those are the chun/cyke setups and the cyke into lower shom setups.

practice the upper shom solo, which is simply:

{s.RH, sj.lk, down+RH, AD lk, (pause) RH (1 hit) land s.lp} xN

[Slangin Smilez]

Dude Thank You Thats So Beast

[RisunoMeijin]

Dude Thank You Thats So Beast

I know its alot to practice, but when you get it all down it gets pretty sick, lemme know when you can do it all.

I recommend starting on storm, and moving onto mag/cable/sent for training opponents.

Also read the whole thread/basic chun thread in general XD

I know its really long, but there are some good tibits here and there. Most important to watch out for considering your team are gonna be:

s.lp + drones, s.mp HCB + K
s.lp + drones, c.FP HCB + K

Use these to take the opponent to the wall/cross them up midscreen, and try:

wall throw

(no tech) hit s.lp, s.mp on the fall
(with tech) s.lp + cyke

[Slangin Smilez]

I'm Having Trouble With Her Ground Infinite..Its Crazy..Haven't Got To The Shom Yet

[RisunoMeijin]

Just n.jump...its slightly easier to time. Try to go:

n.jump AD lk

this part is fast. pretend you are doing the second half of the rom, and either slide or claw dash to lk. then go:

FP (slight pause) forward +RH

repeat this till you can easily rep it. then try to add in the lp, mp, SJC for early shom practice.

[jaded]

so how about those match vids?

[RisunoMeijin]

so how about those match vids?

I had a really good night of matches at east point last week, the 2 best in state werent there, but i was beating some good people.

The problem is, I dont own a camera, so I have to wait untill I am playing chun li vs people actually good at marvel, and there is a camera around to get more matches captured.

Also, for the record concerning your other posts, Slick Vic is a good player and Santhrax is a good team.

The combovideo is scheduled to be completed on the 24-the end of the month.

[Slangin Smilez]

Yo Risuno
I'm Having Problems With Her Air Infinite I Can't Connect With The Lp When I Land..And What Would You Say Is The Timing?? Also I Noticed..Bigger Peepz Like Silver Sam..Doom-U-Less Prime Are Hard To Get Cuz They Fall Faster..Any Pointers On The Lp..Or Anything Else

[RisunoMeijin]

Its really hard at first.....what you want to do is hit with the (one hit) RH as late as possible, so you are underneath them when it connects.

This way you land before them, although it is still somewhat difficult to work out timing on s.lp, s.RH.

This version of the upper shom works on everyone excepting Sent, Juggs, and Hulk.

On people with weird air hit boxes, (cable, omega, maybe sam) you can s.lp, s.mp. s.RH.

I advise practicing on Storm, Magneto, Psy, Cyke, and Capcom first, then move to cable and sent.

[RisunoMeijin]

Bumped to say that j.down + RH command normal if timed is unblockable as long as the opponent isn't already in blockstun. Info has been added to the basic Chun thread as well. Im gonna get in depth with this ASAP and try to combine it with the solo blockstrings. Let them out of frame advantage, and unblock that ass. Real talk.

[eczangief]

scary, as if there wasn't ANOTHER reason for me to learn Chun quick

[Slangin Smilez]

Yo Risuno
I Got Her Upper Shom To About 30 Reps..I Was Messing Up With The " Land Then Standing Lp Then Launch..I Was Holding Forward..It Makes A Difference..It's Hard But Pretty Damn Amazing When You Got It Down

[RisunoMeijin]

Good shit man, the vid comes out in a day or 2. You can take the basics and work from there looking at the new vid, as well as Shins material.

[RisunoMeijin]

New chun vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkJRUrygAy0).

New thread to post random comments, full transcript, and all that stuff. Lets keep this thread to discussing the advance of chun mixup, the new unblockable, and frame advantage strings.

From now on lets also try to post basic questions about execution in the basic chun li thread. I would like for this thread to become less cluttered with randomness.

[RisunoMeijin]

The unblockable (j.stomp) has been confirmed to work everywhere on the screen, regardless of the state of either player. This means {landing} stomps can also be unblockable. Conditions for the unblock require the opponent to not be in guard state when the normal is input. They can be holding back, just not blocking a previous layer or recovering from one when you make the input.

This unblockable occurs due to the game dropping frames. Since the game runs at 60fps, and drops 1 frame after every 4, there is a 15/60 or 25% chance of this unblockable happening, EVERY time you input a j.down+RH and get hitbox interaction, assuming the opponent was not already in guard state when you made the input.

Unfortunately, there is no way for a human to mentally slow down marvel to the point where you can 100% technique / Loop or control the unblockable. Because of this we are limited to a 25% chance of glory for all eternity. Considering that it hits low block, breaks high/j. block a quarter of the time, and all of these scenario lead to infinite, its still a damn solid option on wake up.

The reason why this is previously undiscovered?? First of all, no one plays with Chun. (slightly appalling) Second, this is the only j.one frame in the entire game.
The only exception to this is speed up rouge j.mp, which obviously comes after j.lp, putting the opponent in guard state for the active frames of j.lp + guard stiffness.
As previously stated, no unblockable will occur if the opponent is in guard state.


Big props go out to:

Magnetro, Shin, ECZangief, Shoultzula, and Mixup for helping pave the way to fully understanding this marvel anomaly.

[RisunoMeijin]

Ok,

So my next big chun project is gonna be to make upper/lower shom notes as to how they can most effectivly be preformed against each character in the game.

We all know upper shom can be difficult due to the spacing in timing, and although watching for the right spot on the 1 hit RH is the key, there are defenitly some things you can do to increase your success rate against different hitboxes.

Im gonna start with God tier, which has pretty much already been ironed out; then move on to top 10/top 20. I will have the cooperation of Shin on this, so we can make sure its not just easy for me, but univerally the best method for each individual character.

Just to give a small example, lets use Psylocke for reasons of ease. You want to divide the upper shom into 2 sections, the setup and the infinite. After the first rep, she is gonna be off the ground about by about 1 body length. This, for all characters, is gonna either slightly change the timing, or change the normals you want to use to keep the infinite going.

Psylocke is slightly unique, in that her hitbox allows almost the exact same inputs for the setup and the infinite. So all you people just now stating the upper shom, start here.

What you want to do, is immediatly jab after you super jump, and chain this jab to stomp. This keeps you under psylocke for the duration of the setup. AD/lk then pause, one hit RH. You should have enough time to land, and link a s.lp, s.RH. This is the point where the setup ends and the infinite begins, as she will be a good bit off the ground for the remainder of this combo.

Because of psylockes hitstun animation/hitboxes, you can keep the upper shom going 100% of the time using the fast jab on the way up for the infinite; Although some other characters require different setups and infinite inputs.

I will organize this idea into a chart, and work should be finished on it by the end of next week.

In other news....3 chun vids scheduled to come out >.>. And my Chun will be playing at the GA regional tournament Impact Clash this weekend. Surely we will get some match vids from this.

[judge_rl]

:u: I thought you already did the Shom run-downs for the cast (who can be hit with it and the variations necessary to get them in it and maintain it, etc)...

Fuck it. I'm just using the basic Shom starters for option trees afterwards HAHHAAH this chick is TECH-NI-CAL!!! good stuff dude

[RisunoMeijin]

Well, the first time through, all I did was confirm the upper shom works on every character. The only ones that are not capable of being kept in the upper shom midscreen are Hulk, Juggs, and Sent. The lower shom works on all 3 midscreen though.

People are still having some trouble with the upper shom, and there are so far around 5 specific variations that I think will make it easier to preform on certain characters.

Ive been really sick lately, :sweat: its the only reason i havent finished a chart yet, and I do apologize for the amount of time its taking to get the chart/advanced chun vid together.

Gimme a few weeks to pull everything together. :karate:

[Slangin Smilez]

Chun Fuqin Li Baby...I Love Her!!! :lovin: I Seriously Don't Have Fun With Magneto Anymore Cuz Of Her