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Septimus Prime
06-03-2008, 02:18 PM
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080603-photonic-jets-could-increase-optical-disc-capacity-tenfold.html

Photonic jets could increase optical disc capacity tenfold

By Chris Lee | Published: June 03, 2008 - 11:26AM CT

So it turns out that Sony did something right and it, along with a large consortium of supporting folks, won the format war. Blu-ray is now the HD disc format pf choice, but even so, the data storage capability won't keep users happy indefinitely. Some recent research from Northwestern University shows that much higher storage densities are possible using technology based on existing optical media.

The limiting factor is the area on which light can be focused, set by the diffraction limit. Using conventional optics, light can only be focused to a spot that is about the same as the wavelength—for Blu-ray, the wavelength is about 405nm, and the spot size is about 580nm. This means that the pits and landings that represent the data need to be a significant fraction of this size (~100nm) and be separated by a significant fraction of the spot-size as well (100-300nm).

This sets limits on the data density and, currently, the only way to overcome these limits is to layer the disc. That can only go so far, as each layer has to reflect a significant amount of light so that the data can be read. For instance, if each layer of a dual layer disc is 50 percent reflective, then the signal level can be expected to drop by a factor of four between two adjacent layers.

Recently, it was discovered that the interaction between light and a simple glass sphere has some really odd properties. In particular, on the side opposite to the illuminating light, a very narrow and very bright stream of light, termed a photonic jet, exits the sphere. Within a very short distance—on the order of a micrometer for a blue-light laser—the light stream begins to expand rapidly. But very close to the sphere it has dimensions that are much smaller than the wavelength of light. The researchers realized that if they placed the pits and landings within this narrow beam of light, they should be able to store data at much higher densities.

The researchers also realized that this would be difficult to test this using blue-light lasers because it would be very difficult to manufacture and align a suitable demonstration surface at the micron scale. Instead, they did a proof-of-principle using microwave radiation, which has a wavelength of 10 millimeters. The microwaves illuminated an acrylic sphere to create a photonic jet. An optical disc was approximated via a polished aluminum plate that had pits and landings machined into the surface; the plate was coated with the equivalent of the protection layer that comes standard on all optical media, making the whole device as close to a scaled-up optical drive as possible.

Their experimental results and modeling indicated that the light reflected from a pit was about 700 times weaker than from a landing, making the difference very easy to detect. Furthermore, modeling results showed that the reflected signal varied strongly with pit depth, opening up the possibility of encoding additional data by pit depth.

Two big questions remain: how much more data can be stored, and can the reader be be scaled down? If scaled directly, the pits would be approximately 50-80nm long, making the per-layer capacity a factor of two larger than current blu-ray discs. However, the depth encoding could easily provide another two to four times the capacity. Furthermore, this is the first experiment, so we can probably expect another factor of two to four from lessons learned during the development process—the optimist in me says that this could give us 30 times more data than a single layer disc.

The question of scaling is more tricky. The sphere would be on the order of two micrometers in diameter, which is pretty easy to make. However, the distance between the surface of the disc and the sphere would be only around 200nm, which would be very difficult to maintain while the disc was spinning. If that problem can be addressed, then this technology would probably be a winner, particularly since it would be compatible with existing discs.
Yes, yes, we all know about holographic storage, but I doubt that would become available anytime soon.

OrangeCat
06-03-2008, 02:35 PM
I just want my fucking flying cars....IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK?

However cool find nevertheless. Spheres are trying the way to the future.

OC

True Grave
06-03-2008, 02:39 PM
I just want my fucking flying cars....IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK?

However cool find nevertheless. Spheres are trying the way to the future.

OC

Your post made me think of this article:
http://www.cracked.com/article_15655_5-awesome-sci-fi-inventions-that-would-actually-suck.html

Which goes into detail on why flying cars would be a BAD thing(among other inventions).

Yes, yes, we all know about holographic storage, but I doubt that would become available anytime soon.

Also we need to be realistic, in that how much friggin' data do we really NEED for movies/games, and would make use of? There is a point where it just becomes stupid and needless.

They should STOP trying to come up with these new, high-storage formats, and focus on making the best of the new tech that we do have, until there is an actual NEED for this stuff. Otherwise its just wasteful.

"Sure i can store my whole DVD collection onto a single 4 Terabyte disc, but then what would i do with the remaining 3.2TBs?"

BaSiK_TeKniK
06-03-2008, 02:49 PM
I still want sex-robots in the future. seriously...

maxx
06-03-2008, 02:51 PM
i think mutherfuckers are jusst super greedy wit this disk shit.

remember floppys and zip disks..lol.

Septimus Prime
06-03-2008, 02:57 PM
Also we need to be realistic, in that how much friggin' data do we really NEED for movies/games, and would make use of? There is a point where it just becomes stupid and needless.

They should STOP trying to come up with these new, high-storage formats, and focus on making the best of the new tech that we do have, until there is an actual NEED for this stuff. Otherwise its just wasteful.

"Sure i can store my whole DVD collection onto a single 4 Terabyte disc, but then what would i do with the remaining 3.2TBs?"
Availability and economics of scale breed new utility. Before DVD, no one thought VHS could be topped (except for Sony and its betamax, but we all know how that ended). During DVD's heyday, no one thought BD or HD DVD were needed. Wrong. We don't actually know what we want or need until it's available to us.

Toward the end of the HD optical media format war, people created an Ultra High Definition TV (UHDTV) capable of displaying images at 7K resolution (IMAX is 4K). So each frame of this media would contain 7x7 times the data of a 1080p image, or 49-times the data of a 1080p resolution image. No optical media we have today can hold all that.

DeathScythe
06-03-2008, 03:00 PM
Also we need to be realistic, in that how much friggin' data do we really NEED for movies/games, and would make use of? There is a point where it just becomes stupid and needless.

Games tend to use a good chunk of memory on a Blu-Ray disc. There's a lot that goes into a games programming these days. Plus, you have to take into account that there is uncompressed 5.1 audio in this day and age and that's a helluva chunk of memory right there. I, for one, enjoy 5.1 uncompressed audio.

They should STOP trying to come up with these new, high-storage formats, and focus on making the best of the new tech that we do have, until there is an actual NEED for this stuff. Otherwise its just wasteful.

You do realize that the computer a person buys today becomes obsolete the very next month or so? Technology is too busy advancing at a rapid pace.

"Sure i can store my whole DVD collection onto a single 4 Terabyte disc, but then what would i do with the remaining 3.2TBs?"

You add some fucking porn to those remaining 3.2 terabytes. That's what you do.

fishjie
06-03-2008, 03:02 PM
Also we need to be realistic, in that how much friggin' data do we really NEED for movies/games, and would make use of? There is a point where it just becomes stupid and needless.

They should STOP trying to come up with these new, high-storage formats, and focus on making the best of the new tech that we do have, until there is an actual NEED for this stuff. Otherwise its just wasteful.

"Sure i can store my whole DVD collection onto a single 4 Terabyte disc, but then what would i do with the remaining 3.2TBs?"

people like you with their short sighted and myopic opinions are the ones who will never innovate and make progress. many people thought that the PC would fail, because no one would need it. or how many people we'd never need faster than a 486 processor. or need more than a gigabyte of space. or need more than 56k modem. blahblahblahblah. bottom line, just because you are unimaginative and can't think of any reason to use terabytes of data, does not mean others cannot.

fP_tHuG
06-03-2008, 03:09 PM
im just waiting for the day where we have small cubes to store data, that shit is too cool.

EveryFlowerFlow
06-03-2008, 03:19 PM
You do realize that the computer a person buys today becomes obsolete the very next month or so? Technology is too busy advancing at a rapid pace.



Truth. Actually is obsolete by the time it's on the self.

Moore's law ftw. :rock:

Remy Saotome
06-03-2008, 03:33 PM
That's pretty neat. Wow, 200nm is a really, really small space.

Rod Driguez
06-03-2008, 03:46 PM
im just waiting for the day where we have small cubes to store data, that shit is too cool.

That day is here... it's called a USB flash drive. Welcome to 2003! :looney:


No seriously - good read, thanks Sep.

OrangeCat
06-03-2008, 03:58 PM
Truth. Actually is obsolete by the time it's on the self.

Moore's law ftw. :rock:
It's that type of worthlessness that makes me think of There Will Be Blood's milkshake speech. Like how Crysis came out and supposedly so many computers cannot run it at top spec.

You crawled out with your mother's filth and should be put in a glass jar over the mantle.

OC

Septimus Prime
06-03-2008, 04:07 PM
Moore's Law probably won't hold forever.

AlphaDragoon02
06-03-2008, 04:21 PM
That's crazy, I can't even think of what they could put on a disc that big. Rest assured, people will find something that will require such space, though. :rofl:

True Grave
06-03-2008, 04:22 PM
people like you with their short sighted and myopic opinions are the ones who will never innovate and make progress. many people thought that the PC would fail, because no one would need it. or how many people we'd never need faster than a 486 processor. or need more than a gigabyte of space. or need more than 56k modem. blahblahblahblah. bottom line, just because you are unimaginative and can't think of any reason to use terabytes of data, does not mean others cannot.

Theres only so far we can progress through a certain period of time till it becomes repetitive. Look at the processor & home Pc market, its been stagnant for years because they just kept pushing ahead when there was really no need too.

Now with the exception of cutting edge stuff like gaming, your basic, entry-level computer on the market can handle damn near anything. I'm all for advancing technology but there is just a point where it becomes pointless at that particular moment in time to have something thats *insert multiple* better than current tech.

What i'm basically trying to say is i'd much rather they work on ironing out all the issues and perfecting the new technology we've only just recently gotten, like Blu-Ray stuff, than looking ahead this SOON for the next big thing.


Edit: A good example is Microsoft with Windows Vista and how we didn't and still don't need a new Windows O.S. Instead of making a shitty new O.S with problems out the ass, just for the sake of having something new, Microsoft should have just cranked out a new service pack to improve upon the already Great WinXP.

OrangeCat
06-03-2008, 04:25 PM
Your post made me think of this article:
http://www.cracked.com/article_15655_5-awesome-sci-fi-inventions-that-would-actually-suck.html

Which goes into detail on why flying cars would be a BAD thing(among other inventions).

I counter with Avery Brooks assist.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LrFgRAcr0jg

OC

Septimus Prime
06-03-2008, 04:32 PM
"Soon" means in the next 10-20 years. Blu-ray will be way dated by then, much like DVD today.

True Grave
06-03-2008, 04:37 PM
"Soon" means in the next 10-20 years. Blu-ray will be way dated by then, much like DVD today.

10-20 years would be acceptable i guess, but it seems like new stuff comes out faster and faster. Who knows, we might have a new format ready 5 years from now and they'll be expecting everyone to convert over already.

By the time you re-buy your favorite Tv series on Blu-Ray, it might get replaced with the holographic-disc stuff and then BD is "obsolete". Just sayin'.

Septimus Prime
06-03-2008, 04:39 PM
Blu-ray won't even overtake DVD in sales for another 4-5 years, and holographic discs probably won't be ready for consumer use for some time.

True Grave
06-03-2008, 04:41 PM
Blu-ray won't even overtake DVD in sales for another 4-5 years, and holographic discs probably won't be ready for consumer use for some time.

I guess so, i'm probably just overreacting.

regulate
06-03-2008, 04:46 PM
I counter with Avery Brooks assist.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LrFgRAcr0jg

OC

You cant beat cpt sisko. He solved the problem, flying cars+IBM comps running them.

Shaft Agent
06-03-2008, 04:53 PM
I counter with Avery Brooks assist.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LrFgRAcr0jg

OCread Warren Ellis's Doktor Sleepless XX recounter counter with Bruce Sterling. (http://www.vimeo.com/769193) caution: long speech. 10 minutes into it he starts ripping on the standard definition of what the 'future' will be like. i found it interesting...