Got two questions about blocking / unblockables

[Mixah]

1. you know when magneto does his hp throw, and person thrown auto blocks upon escape? what happens if they were hit by an unblockable right out of that? eg, say you're using combofiend with drones... throw in the air, call drones, dhc to proton cannon (assuming you DHC at the exact same time they break out and in auto block mode, and the frame before the drones hit)

2. i've noticed that normal unblockables wont work if there's something close to the opponent on the screen. eg, if you call magneto assist + spit at the same time, it's typically blocked...

so my question... if i were to do a tempest, and DHC into proton cannon right before the shard was to hit, is it unblockable, because there are other things on the screen? (just as an example, not as something literal.

[jaded]

i think your perception of unblockables is different, but Magnetro could better explain.

my understanding is that only certain moves allow unblockable (dhc's that don't require you to go to block animation). tempest isn't one of them.

sim's qcf+kk is. I'd imagine if you did mag-a + sim's qcf+kk, the mag-a now allows them to go into block animation (that the qcf+kk didn't), thus removing the 'unblockable' status.

sent unblockable is different on its own. not sure anything else really fits into that category.

[Tech Romancer]

I'm not sure, but isn't Darkness Illusion part of the category you speak of? I'm not sure but I think I remembered someone saying that somewhere...I should just test it.

It would be a great assist to my "Team Sacrilege" composed of Ruby, Akuma and Morrigan.

[#reload]

darkness illusion, strider's ragnarok, storm's LA, etc, aren't those all crossups?

[Mixah]

The unblockable DHCs that I'm talking about...

if you DHC the frame before a projectile hits, it's unblockable.... regardless of scenario.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbnTwHXWhXo
at :50 seconds, watch what happens. sent calls drones, does plasma super, sent comes in and goes into block animation, DHC into hail right before the drones hit... sent can't block the drones.

Now, does the same thing apply with all projectiles. that's what my second question was asking? In other words, DHCing at the right time during a tempest, would that cause an unblockable scenario?

As for the first question, I meant, when the opponent goes into an auto block situation (like coming out of Magneto's HP throw), and gets hit with an unblockable at the same time, like the projectile unblockable situation that i mentioned before with the sent drones, and as seen in the video, what happens? auto block + unblockable = what?

[distal Stimulus]

well proton cannon isn't "unblockable" (like sen'ts c.hp) it just hits before u get a chance to block, so if u are already blocking, i would assume that u would block the proton cannon.

and, i didn't know that u go into auto block after u get hp trown with magneto, but i know u get invincibility from assist hits if are in the midst of trowing someone.

i remember so many times that i call drones, and someone trows me, then like 2 drones go through them, but the last one hits them and then i combo off of it lol

and for ur 2nd question, it is probably becuz the game recognizes the other attack on the screen, so your opponent ends up be able to do the blocking animation.

the only reason unblockables work is becuz the game system doesn't recognize an attack.

but if something else is on the screen then unblockables are n/a

[Tech Romancer]

darkness illusion, strider's ragnarok, storm's LA, etc, aren't those all crossups?

Explain.

[Mixah]

you're still missing the point

if you DHC the moment before a projectile hits you, the projectile becomes unblockable.

watch the video and see what i mean. the drones are completely unblockable in that scenario. I've seen bill do it last week in chinatown

[distal Stimulus]

shit, i just seen that

i dont know what is going on

it could very well be a guardbreak, u gotta ask djb13

i think it would help to ask if sent DHC'ed into something that didn't hit, like let's say , doom's Hyper combo where he just shoots a blast upwards, would the drones still hit or would they be blocked.

[Mixah]

ok, it's NOT a guardbreak. it's an unblockable.

need i type it again and again to drill it into your head?

[#reload]

2. i've noticed that normal unblockables wont work if there's something close to the opponent on the screen. eg, if you call magneto assist + spit at the same time, it's typically blocked...

EM disruptor lets you block i'm assuming?

i.e. waking up into mouthbeam = waking up with nothing TOO block since the 2nd hit doesn't let you. disruptor puts something on the screen which allows you to block

but then again, if you do the corner OTG setup (which has flying screen), this wouldn't make sense because the disruptor would come out later then the mouthbeam

unless you're talking about unfly setups, like launch whatever whatever f.lk xx unfly hp, land, unblockable?

man fuck this confusing broken ass game

[judge_rl]

1. you know when magneto does his hp throw, and person thrown auto blocks upon escape?

Yea. Question for your question though: when have you seen a human opponent auto-block upon escape of the HP throw? I've only seen this occur with the cpu dummy in training mode and rarely w/ the cpu in arcade. Most players mash to escape Mag's HP throw (the capture after-effect, not the tech), so will be escaping DOING something, not auto-blocking...that makes them vulnerable to a hit in itself...

what happens if they were hit by an unblockable right out of that?

You want to attempt an unblockable on an auto-blocking opponent? You would have to first find out what causes them to auto-block in the first place...

eg, say you're using combofiend with drones... throw in the air, call drones, dhc to proton cannon (assuming you DHC at the exact same time they break out and in auto block mode, and the frame before the drones hit)

You just made it interesting. I'm pretty sure, iirc, when thrown with Mag's AIR HP throw, the victim will bounce after hitting the ground and will then return to the ground paralyzed, if I may. So, you have just entered a new factor into the equation. You have auto-block grounded, and auto-block bounce. Your initial question deals with auto-block grounded, so, again, you have to figure out what causes them to auto-block in the first place.

Auto-block bounce is interesting, though. Say your opponent escapes from Mag's AIR HP throw during the peak of their bounce (would have to find out how soon player could escape to be sure if it's possible). During the interim they are falling, are they in NJ or SJ mode? Given NJ, if Mag's uf+hp or his ad/df sj.hk are fast enough to tick them before they land and he DHCs into someone who can pursue ideally, you have a GB situation. Lot of ifs and experimenting though. Then again, if your opponent mashed out of an AIR HP throw and attacks at the peak of their bounce, given they are in NJ mode, they can't block again until landing anyway.

Highly specific, but interesting.

Your example though doesn't quite fit your situation well. You want to AIR HP throw them with Mag...then land...then call Sent...then wait for drones to get about 4-5 frames away from opponent...then DHC and have the in-coming HC hit just as the drones are within 1 frame of your opponent. I could see your opponent having escaped by then...

Maybe if you play around with it a bit (after experimenting to find out what causes them to auto-block in the first place), you could do a little something. You could call drones faster to allow less escape time:

after AIR HP throw, ad/d sj.hp/hk (sure you've noticed how Mag uses his momentum to land slightly faster than w/o a fierce/roundhouse), then call drones, sj. ad/f and over your opponent to move the screen and force them closer to the drones, then proceed to test your set-up...

after AIR HP throw, fly, then proceed to do your set-up...


2. i've noticed that normal unblockables wont work if there's something close to the opponent on the screen. eg, if you call magneto assist + spit at the same time, it's typically blocked...

How can you be sure, mang? You gotta wonder if in the time you called your assist, did it screw up your timing on the unblockable? Did the assist hit before your spit, thus messing up your hitbox? Something to think about...

so my question... if i were to do a tempest, and DHC into proton cannon right before the shard was to hit, is it unblockable, because there are other things on the screen? (just as an example, not as something literal.

This is very similar to the drones situation, so it seems plausible. Much more specific, but plausible. Also, considering that the shards have a random factor as to where they travel and how many there are, you would have to have eagle eyes and surgical precision.

[Mixah]

Yeah, all the things I'm asking don't necessarily have a practical value. I just want to know what happens to an unblockable in any auto blocking situation.

as for the human auto blocking, if you mash out and don't move, you auto block. my buddy does it all the time because he believes in not abusing the stick... he'll never mash more than he has to. hes' yet to beat me though, and i suck.

[xero15]

i wanna say you block the unblockable. yeah sounds weird. but when you auto block it will then recognize the drones on the screen but with PC being a frame kill DHC it would just appear on the screen and keep them blocking. i think the reason the drones are unblockable in the vid is because of the delay after the DHC with hailstorm. i have to test that scenario just to be sure though.

[MaxVandalism315]

ok, it's NOT a guardbreak. it's an unblockable.

need i type it again and again to drill it into your head?

:rofl: look at the join date ur getting responses from

[judge_rl]

:rofl: look at the join date ur getting responses from

So why didn't you respond? :china: No pressure...just curious.

[MaxVandalism315]

because i dont know the answer either :sad:

[Mixah]

why is it that the only responses that i've gotten that weren't hypothetical asshat responses so far are from #reload, who really didn't have anything to do with my question, and xero?

anyway, xero, you're thinking what i was thinking.

supposedly, the reason that the drones are unblockable is the same reason sent's spit is. for whatever reason, certain things get two hits (like his spit)... well, remember when you do a ffly combo and DHC at the right time during commando's spark? it hits twice... same principle.

[judge_rl]

^B/c you posed a 'hypothetical, asshat' question. No practical value...as you mentioned. You ask a question that requires a bit of thought in understanding exactly how the situation would work. In your question, you pose a factor of something highly impractical happening that hasn't yet been understood, and you diss the brainstorming you get from those who post in your thread. Nice. Have fun with that.

[Mixah]

or the fact that almost all the answers that i got were from people who didn't even know about the projectile unblockable crap that i was talking about and first insulted me as thoguh i don't know what an unblockable is. You have fun with that.

[xero15]

back to the question at hand. maybe its not even an unblockable maybe its more of a guard break usin the freeze frames oh dhc's. i dont have a certain answer but thats another theory i came up with.

i say this because sentinel comes in blocking drones before plasma starts then storm comes out and hailstorms. inbetween that small gap sents block is broken and he gets hit with drones right before hailstorm. :wonder: marvels crazy but until i know for sure thats my theory. and like i said in my first post it wouldnt happen in the said incident since they would already be blocking from the unblock and iron mans dhc is instant as compared to storms who has a slight delay before the hits.

[Mixah]

i could see that....

[xero15]

if you find a better answer than that let me know.

[Divine Tenken]

back to the question at hand. maybe its not even an unblockable maybe its more of a guard break usin the freeze frames oh dhc's. i dont have a certain answer but thats another theory i came up with.

i say this because sentinel comes in blocking drones before plasma starts then storm comes out and hailstorms. inbetween that small gap sents block is broken and he gets hit with drones right before hailstorm. :wonder: marvels crazy but until i know for sure thats my theory. and like i said in my first post it wouldnt happen in the said incident since they would already be blocking from the unblock and iron mans dhc is instant as compared to storms who has a slight delay before the hits.

Is there a sure fire way too setup for the unblockable with sent or cable just had too ask also great thread thanks for the info peace.

[Mixah]

sent only can guarantee it with meaties and against characters with no air control.

examples of air control >
air dashing (except when coming in, such as in magneto's case)
double / triple jumping (except when coming in, such as psylocke's case)
floaters (storm, i think might be the only one)
advanced falling techniques (eg, if you stomp with sentinel, you'll automatically get hit, but you'll fall fast enough to recover)
character specific moves that let you float (eg. cable)


meaties will always hit as long as they're timed properly. Cable's meaty wont work on most of the cast as they're duckable.

[piponaz]

i think that's a guard break but i'm not so sure because you can't really see it properly cause of the poor quality of the vid. i tried searching at preppy's site for that vid but found none. i'll try to pm him later if he has that vid to see if that really is a guard break or a unblockable.

but if someone could contact dj-b13, that would be much better.

edit:
just finished watching the vid, and i'm pretty sure that's a guardbreak because it's the same thing around 1:56mark where he used it against storm. it only seems to be an unblockable because of the delay of the DHC.

[Mixah]

the thing is that when you do certain, if not all supers, there's a frame delay (hence why HG xx temp works at the end of an air combo) the projectiles move a frame or more? and auto attach.

the game is registering the character in block animation, BUT, the game is also registering the projectile already being in their hitbox.

if you're asking if it's a guardbreak, it can't be, because the character isn't ever blocking, just goes into the block animation.

[piponaz]

you could also be right.

why don't you just pm dj-b13 to clear things up and share it up if ever.

[Mixah]

beacuse that's not what my question was about.

i'm asking what happens when an unblockable situation occurs in an autoblocking situation.

[xero15]

sent only can guarantee it with meaties and against characters with no air control.

examples of air control >
air dashing (except when coming in, such as in magneto's case)
double / triple jumping (except when coming in, such as psylocke's case)
floaters (storm, i think might be the only one)
advanced falling techniques (eg, if you stomp with sentinel, you'll automatically get hit, but you'll fall fast enough to recover)
character specific moves that let you float (eg. cable)


meaties will always hit as long as they're timed properly. Cable's meaty wont work on most of the cast as they're duckable.
can you set up cables unblockable bullet with something like call drones first nj hp then s.hp x4? not sure since im not a cable player really. just thinking about things.

anywho if they auto block theyll continue to block im sure. something like sents beam would be an example i guess. they are in the air coming down you call lets say blackhearts assist and they block if they land on the "unblockable" hit they still block it since they were already blocking. so in this situation im sure its about the same.

[Mixah]

i meant auto blocking like int eh case of coming out of magneto's throw. not when the player actualy goes to block.

[anthonEEEzy]

sups MIXAHH!

seems most ppl arent understanding.

#1. i think auto block can be broken but gotta try it out. forget throw in the air just do it on ground.

mag calls drones on ground + grab, opponent gets out and auto block occurs, proton cannon before drones hit.

#2 Ya i think this is correct u cannot unblockable + assist at same time. But, i have seen unblockable then calling assist after. I think everyone knows this.

just dont press c.hp + assist, press it after and it will work.

another unblockable scenerio: say you kill cable the same time he pressed his drone assist. cable is in dead state and drones coming after you, drones are unblockable. dunno why though.

[Mixah]

sups MIXAHH!

seems most ppl arent understanding.

#1. i think auto block can be broken but gotta try it out. forget throw in the air just do it on ground.

mag calls drones on ground + grab, opponent gets out and auto block occurs, proton cannon before drones hit.

#2 Ya i think this is correct u cannot unblockable + assist at same time. But, i have seen unblockable then calling assist after. I think everyone knows this.

just dont press c.hp + assist, press it after and it will work.

another unblockable scenerio: say you kill cable the same time he pressed his drone assist. cable is in dead state and drones coming after you, drones are unblockable. dunno why though.

THANK YOU!
wtf to that cable scenario!?

The auto block situation in number 1: that makes sense. Just, I don't have access to a second person who has the capability to test these things out with me.

2, that's what i was thinking. the other thing about that question though, is projectiles like tempest > dhc... is it possiblet o cause the same type of unblockable situation that the drones / dhc thing causes?

[judge_rl]

Just leaving doing some Cable BnBs from training mode, and a possible way to test out your unblockable vs autoblocking opponent would be to put cpu on autoblock, launch with sent and attempt to get the 2nd hit of the spit to hit on their way down. Trial and error...that or use an assist (e.g., Cyclops) that hits them up and away for spacing. This way you can test to see if it is even possible to get the hit off on autoblock target before getting too far in this. Good luck.

[Mixah]

cpu autoblocks unblockables.

[anthonEEEzy]

the cpu is cheap/GDLK!

I was using cable as an example but it happens with all characters. When you kill a character and their assists move is coming at you it is unblockable.

I killed someone and the drones were coming after me and I couldnt block it. I'm not sure if it happens with other assists(typhoon, doom rocks, ect.) but i primarily remember sentinel drones.

ITS MARVEL BABY!

when chunksta comes back i will be sure to test #1 out.

[Mixah]

hmm hot