Has anybody heard of an interview with the development team of MvC2?

[jaded]

I mean was Sentinel intended to be slow and hard to maneuver which is why he has that stupid HSF that combos into itself?

Was AHVB an intended feature in the game engine? I mean it's funny that you can hit both punches a little bit late and a super still comes out (wouldn't the game register the hvb as qcf+pp??). I realize ryu's qcf+pp has the same thing, but then Ryu has recovery?

Magneto is interesting cuz his hypergrav is escapable, but it's not easy since even the pro's mess up the escape. it's like a balance fix of itself?? completely unintentional balance fix?


these are just some of the questions that are burning in my heart that I want to ask the design team of mvc2.

[RisunoMeijin]

I mean....Tiger knees have been around for awhile. I have enough faith in capcom development to believe they realized that AHVB's will chain. At this point, they already knew about guard breaks as well from previous games. Whether or not cable as we know him was intentional is a slightly different matter.

But if they knew AHVB would link, im sure they knew HSF would to. As soon as they gave sent the ability to xx c.FP, and its not just fly cancel, they had to know sent would be fast. If not in mobility then in getting the screen filled up.

[Tech Romancer]

I like to assume good faith on Capcom and think that they didn't intend for any of these guys to have the absurd tools that they have. It's common knowledge they tried to rush the game out the door and basically just made a character buffet from all the previous games. I mean, when a "god tier" is created in a game that generally means something is very, very wrong. I remember a friend telling me back about tiers, that basically God Tier = banned tier. This is like one of the few games people decided not to do that and I think it ruins and dwindles the span of the game.

On the other hand, I'm willing to assume that when they figured out all the shit people were pulling, thus creating a "god tier" they'd stay away from interviews as much as possible. ;)

I just realized Oni-Suzuki worked on this game, CvS2, Project Justice and (I think) Vampire Savior. I wish I was into the scene back then; I would've asked him about this stuff. Then again, AHVB, Sent's HSF, etc. weren't figured out until a little later into the game's lifetime.

[jaded]

interesting comments. I am non-plussed by capcom's choice of character abilities.


i also noticed IronMan's infinite was in MVC1 via war machine. It's too bad we can't get sirlin on a MvC3 project to work out balance testing. Or just a new vs game in general with more balance testing.

[RisunoMeijin]

This isnt karnovs revenge (Ballooooooooon!!!) . God tier isnt banned because it is balanced within itself. If you think they werent prepared for crazyness when they released this game that is the opposite of having faith in them.

You honestly think they didnt realize they put instant recovery on both AHVB and HSF? Thats a really big accident to make.

Eh, if they made a marvel 3, it most likely wouldn't carry on the same fanbase. You would either have to take away from the god tier, which would make high tier the new god tier, or else give everyone else broken shit too.....oh wait, they already have it. Mobility is a big part of what makes god tier in this game. You cant just give gambit a n.jump infinite and expect any more balance. You cant just give chun her air super and expect her to hang with sent air to air.

Whats so great about this game is you can create your own balance through taking control of the match, which is very doable, however hard, in pretty much any situation as of now. After mags kills AAA, he rushes down for free -counter hits, kill = GB next char; broken? Chun vs. Sent - AAA; free ground trap, mixup leads to infinite (80%ish) after death next char gets GB; just as broken?

[Tech Romancer]

This isnt karnovs revenge (Ballooooooooon!!!) . God tier isnt banned because it is balanced within itself. If you think they werent prepared for crazyness when they released this game that is the opposite of having faith in them.

You honestly think they didnt realize they put instant recovery on both AHVB and HSF? Thats a really big accident to make.

Eh, if they made a marvel 3, it most likely wouldn't carry on the same fanbase. You would either have to take away from the god tier, which would make high tier the new god tier, or else give everyone else broken shit too.....oh wait, they already have it. Mobility is a big part of what makes god tier in this game. You cant just give gambit a n.jump infinite and expect any more balance. You cant just give chun her air super and expect her to hang with sent air to air.

Whats so great about this game is you can create your own balance through taking control of the match, which is very doable, however hard, in pretty much any situation as of now. After mags kills AAA, he rushes down for free -counter hits, kill = GB next char; broken? Chun vs. Sent - AAA; free ground trap, mixup leads to infinite (80%ish) after death next char gets GB; just as broken?

Hmmm. You have a good point, but Karnov's Revenge's tiers are far closer together than MvC2. You can get good with just about anyone. Besides, there's so many ways around Karnov's Ballon, at even moderate play it becomes just a prioritized overhead. I've seen Marstorious (sp?) knock him out of it with a standing chop. A tier list for Virtua Fighter has ratings from S tier to C tier. But it is so close together that it doesn't matter. Draw a line that can only be seen with a microscope and is as narrow as the most finest of threads. That's how far apart they are. In my eyes makes the tier list irrelevant.

I think you are right about the Cable thing; as I looked around after posting and saw Capcom had actually advertised this in their Solo Combo Exhibition #1 series for MvC2. So yeah, that's really scary that they felt they had to do that. I'm guessing it was for flashiness and leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I don't think Sentinel was meant to be able to abuse HSF, though; he had similar recovery time in Children of the Atom. This was probably just laziness and became abusable because of the multi-super bar. He could only do it once in the original game and they just slapped him in here. I still would like to think they did not intend to make a broken game...but maybe you're right, my faith is unfounded. I mean, Sent's Unfly mode is due to glitch...that's laziness.

There's nothing wrong with a top-tier. That's how fighting games will always be. I just think they should make the tiers realllly close, or if they knew stuff could be abused like that why even bother putting in the rest of the cast? Balanced within itself? That destroys the point of a large character rooster. I can't stand seeing so many nice characters being expelled from high-level play unless they have Tron or a God-Tier backing them. But I solely play low-tier only and don't intend to compete, so I guess it doesn't matter to me.

[jaded]

you know, funny thing is that cable isn't even the main character of the game... ruby heart is.

and ryu, the equivalent of Namco's DevilJin/Kazuya, blows.

do i want to see a super hadouken x5 with Ryu? hell yea I do. something different than this boring game of mvc2 which the only way peon tier can compete is with a sick amount of practice. if chunli infinite was as easy as IM infinite, i'd use her more, too.

[lovepig78]

I mean was Sentinel intended to be slow and hard to maneuver which is why he has that stupid HSF that combos into itself?


sentinel is not a slow character, if played right.

and i find nothing wrong with HSF laser HSF

unless your talking about HSF to HSF to HSF via THC

thats just funny

[jaded]

sentinel is not a slow character, if played right.

and i find nothing wrong with HSF laser HSF

unless your talking about HSF to HSF to HSF via THC

thats just funny

what i meant was that the developers originally thought sentinel would be played slowly and hard to move around, which is why they gave him stupid stuff like hsf to hsf.

let's see what's wrong with HSF:
it does decent chip
it's safe
it does a lot of damage
it links to itself
it attacks at perfect height to link to a large number of supers (hsf dhc headcrush anyone??)
it works as anti air in some instances
and half of the time , even if you escape, it's a flipped coin whether you can hit sentinel out of HSF or not. nothing is more frustrating than you use mag/storm, air dash out and over hsf, but somehow sentinel hits you or you get tagged by the last set of drones.


sentinel is broken sht

[shoultzula]

its been a while but iirc, the game was beta tested first. Doom comes to mind as being altered on the market release.

[judge_rl]

Iirc, I think Sent had more firepower in X:CotA.

I understand your feelings on why-MvC2-Sentinel-is-such-a-bitch, but it would be odd to water this guy down just so that the other characters could have a better chance at taking him in match. I think it's actually a lot more accurate if they attempt to capture what it feels like for an X-man or a Street Fighter to fight a Sentinel. From what I recall, when Sentinels were first revealed in the comics, there wasn't an ounce of bitch in them (big-ups to DP lol). I think Sentinel was modeled rather accurately in this game.

[Tech Romancer]

Iirc, I think Sent had more firepower in X:CotA.

I understand your feelings on why-MvC2-Sentinel-is-such-a-bitch, but it would be odd to water this guy down just so that the other characters could have a better chance at taking him in match. I think it's actually a lot more accurate if they attempt to capture what it feels like for an X-man or a Street Fighter to fight a Sentinel. From what I recall, when Sentinels were first revealed in the comics, there wasn't an ounce of bitch in them (big-ups to DP lol). I think Sentinel was modeled rather accurately in this game.

I don't think so. In Alpha 2 and Third Strike Akuma is depicted as being able to destroy islands and entire mountain ranges with a single hand. But they didn't give him that ability, did they?

Also, if they wanted to be so faithful to the comics, realize that wolverine and Gambit could take Sentinels down in seconds after practice. Also remember that Magneto hardly ever touched anyone in CC, nevermind having a kick faster than the Martial-arts trained Wolverine! And Cyclops having a Shoryuken, flip kick and Chinese boxing attacks?! Huh?! He was physically fit, but almost always depended on his optic blast to do the work.

Anyway, screw canon if it messes up a game. I'd rather have a fair roster where I didn't have to put 6-7 times amount of work into a character just to beat some overpowered Robot.

its been a while but iirc, the game was beta tested first. Doom comes to mind as being altered on the market release.

It wasn't beta tested enough.

[judge_rl]

You don't think so what? You don't think the other characters are modeled in the game accurately enough to portray their comic abilities? That is debatable on multiple fronts, even though I was only referring to Sentinel's accuracy.

Akuma: Actually, I was talking to my roommate a few weeks ago about whether game developers captured his full power given he can sink subs and islands with a single move. On your point though, I would say Akuma is a strong character in MvC2. He just doesn't take hits well.

Wolvy and Gambit: You mentioned they could take Sentinel's down like it was nothing after practice. Are we playing Wolvy and Gambit before or after practice? lol And have you just not practiced enough to take Sentinel out as efficiently as they can or should be able to, as you say. Most people seem to think Joe Zaza has put forth good time in the training room. All up to debate.

Magneto: In the comics, he just never had to (though I do remember him kicking the shit out of someone). You know he is fast, given his response time to assailant's attacks as far as putting up his barrier or countering. Characters were shitting themselves simply trying to figure out how to work as a team just to get to the guy! It doesn't surprise me, given his ability to levitate and move freely in the air, that he can air dash...

Cyclops: That guy is very agile. It doesn't blow my mind that he can perform an upwards punch and then remove his visor to shoot a quick blast at the end of it. :/

[Tech Romancer]

You don't think so what? You don't think the other characters are modeled in the game accurately enough to portray their comic abilities? That is debatable on multiple fronts, even though I was only referring to Sentinel's accuracy.

I think some are modeled too accurately, and some not enough. The latter being Sentinel and the former being someone like Magneto.


Akuma: Actually, I was talking to my roommate a few weeks ago about whether game developers captured his full power given he can sink subs and islands with a single move. On your point though, I would say Akuma is a strong character in MvC2. He just doesn't take hits well.

True.


Wolvy and Gambit: You mentioned they could take Sentinel's down like it was nothing after practice. Are we playing Wolvy and Gambit before or after practice? lol And have you just not practiced enough to take Sentinel out as efficiently as they can or should be able to, as you say. All up to debate.

You're right, I need more practice, but I also like my games balanced. Its too late to complain; the games been out awhile. Just contributing to the thread.


Magneto: In the comics, he just never had to (though I do remember him kicking the shit out of someone). You know he is fast, given his response time to assailant's attacks as far as putting up his barrier or countering. Characters were shitting themselves simply trying to figure out how to work as a team just to get to the guy! It doesn't surprise me, given his ability to levitate and move freely in the air, that he can air dash...
Right, but that sounds more like a AOE or run-away character than a rush-down character.



Cyclops: That guy is very agile. It doesn't blow my mind that he can perform an upwards punch and then remove his visor to shoot a quick blast at the end of it. :/

I recall one episode where he lost his powers in this town and basically couldn't do much, even against the normal humans. I would never really describe him as having much of a speed advantage, though.

This reminds me of conversation on youtube where a guy notes they were trying so hard to make the Marvel characters super-powered like the comics but just made the Capcom characters like they always do (balanced, not necessarily representing what they could actually do). This is probably why the Marvel side is overall better than Capcoms. Maybe they thought the comic geeks would complain or something.

[anthonEEEzy]

I remember reading the game was made pretty quickly. No supprise here cuz of the madness IN the game.

56 characters to balance out.

capcom developers LAUGHED!


THERE IS NO GOING BACK ITS MARVELLLLL

[Person-Man]

I think they just made Marvel ASAP to cash in on the dieing American arcade scene while they still could. The game is very good on accident, and I have no problems with that.

[Preppy]

let's see what's wrong with HSF:
it's safe
...There's a variety of fun ways to punish HSF.
Far-screen: Hyper Megaman, DHC to Cable just as the drones are about to hit. (You'll get hit if you screw up the timing.)
Close: call your favorite assist.
Mid: duck and call any assist that covers your body height. They eat drones, you punish Sent.
Assist-less: guard cancel! (probably too hard for most...)

Sentinel's spit (and lifebar) are the annoyances to me.

It wasn't beta tested enough.It's hard to ever beta test anything enough. :tup:

[xero15]

well considering the marvel cast alone it would have been hard balancing it out you think it should be balanced. for whatever reason spiderman comes to mind against lets say sentinel. lets say you were to give him more stuff to try and putting him up with sent what could you give him when his arsenal is mostly web based? venom is more of a fighter than spiderman and cannon wise hes just as fast as spidey but hes slow. i think they did good on representing the cast.

i hate spideys terrible in this game on his own but he doesnt just need tron to be good. i think people are confusing balance with laziness sometimes.

[KillerKai]

If you look at the mechanics of some characters, you know they tried to balance a lot of shit out compared to previous games:

Characters Capcom obviously took the time to look at and say "you know, this shit is gay":
Cyclops: Took out optic bullet canceled into optic blast
Chun: Took out air super and easy combo into senretsu kyaku
Gambit: Took out his infinite
Thanos: Don't even get me started
Storm: Rapid meter building from XvSF, LA knockdown leads to infinite
Magneto: No Hyper Grav infinite.

In the end though, Magneto Storm and Cyke still benefited pretty well from the way the engine was made (through super canceling and whatnot). I'm guessing capcom had no idea wtf a Rom was though.


One could easily argue they tried to weaken Blackheart and Strider as well, but both also ended up having too many benefits from the engine. I'm guessing they decided to give Strider a few more weapons like teleport attack and faster recovery on animals after realizing how useless he would've been without it.

[otter]

I always thought that Magneto was a mid-tier gone wrong. The dude can't even do a magic series on the ground and he became the combo god.

Magneto-ROM-Hyper GrabxxTempest=not that great

[SNAKESHOTPEOPLE]

Not to mention Wolverine was one of the best characters in the game in EVERY VS game until they came out with Marvel 2, so they did a REALLY good job fucking him up.

No game is really balanced, Marvel is balanced enough, nothing is outlandishly broken. The only way to make a game completely balanced is to have one character and people have to play that mirror match all day.

[distal Stimulus]

capcom wasn't even trying with the street fighter characters

LOOK AT KEN'S launcher, it is a friggin joke

now compare that to magneto's launcher



JESUS CHRIST

[Mixah]

Thing about sentinel....

if he didn't have unfly mode and the unblockable, he'd be more balanced..

several characters were designed differently than their use, like magneto

several characters were intended as joke characters, so don't try to categorize tiers with roll, dan, servbot, amingo, etc

i don't think any game until mvc2 took steps to ensure an infinite free game.

Not to mention Wolverine was one of the best characters in the game in EVERY VS game until they came out with Marvel 2, so they did a REALLY good job fucking him up.

No game is really balanced, Marvel is balanced enough, nothing is outlandishly broken. The only way to make a game completely balanced is to have one character and people have to play that mirror match all day.

this is the fucking truth. mvc2 might not exactly be balanced, but it's far from broken... broken, would be, imho, when low tiers don't even stand a chance... people like zaza and mike z have clearly went against that rule. HNK is broken... KoF2k3 is broken... lol

[Tech Romancer]

several characters were intended as joke characters, so don't try to categorize tiers with roll, dan, servbot, amingo, etc

this is the fucking truth. mvc2 might not exactly be balanced, but it's far from broken... broken, would be, imho, when low tiers don't even stand a chance... people like zaza and mike z have clearly went against that rule. HNK is broken... KoF2k3 is broken... lol

Amingo isn't a joke character, unless by joke character you mean people don't use him very often...

I guess I don't think MvC2 broken, but it skirts the line really, really close. And I wouldn't exactly consider Mike Z going against the rule; he has Doom assist and glitched juggernaut can deplete almost anyone's lifebar so quickly, its ridiculous.

I think the best example of someone going against the rule would be VDO or probably Vidness.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and the Japanese player Kanu. He's got some good low-tier shit going on all the time.

[KillerKai]

Sentinel always had unlfy mode since COTA. It was just damn near useless back then. It also existed in every other marvel game since.

[UnknownEnemyZero]

I think they just made Marvel ASAP to cash in on the dieing American arcade scene while they still could. The game is very good on accident, and I have no problems with that.

Probably the best comment in the world, hahahha probably because it's so true.

[Mixah]

Sentinel always had unlfy mode since COTA. It was just damn near useless back then. It also existed in every other marvel game since.

that i didn't know.

amingo? you kidding me? a fucking fat cactus with little cactus lolis and some really stupid ass moves wasn't intended as a "oh, we ran out of ideas, let's do something stupid"? I still think that he was intended as a joke... roll, i think was just a novelty because of megaman, servbot had to have been a joke, dan has always been considered the joke (even though his cc in alpha 2 can wreck some damage), and that's all i can think of... they definitely didn't put a lot of thought into the game though when they designed it. i mean, they could have given wolverine the bullshit stamina and kept his moves to balance it out, but they raped his damage and his attack power for this game. mike z still defies the rules a bit by doing things really creatively. he's always been a connoisseur of big damage, and he just uses the characters that can cause the biggest damage with the least amounts of hits (SA3 Makoto... i think so...). Regardless of having doom and tron assist or not... he still manages to play tron and juggy well. it's not like he's completely dependent on dr. doom. could the same then be said if he used spiderman / hulk / doom? isn't there a guy on SRK that uses hulk really well also? he used to have a hulk avatar... can't remember his tag though.

back to amingo for a second, i think they just figured that the more characters they managed to squeeze into the game, the better it would sell. some fighters have sold well on that basis alone... i'm thinking the console ports of SFA3... generally, the psx and dc versions sucked (not that i like the game anyway)... but they sold well because of the amount of characters (i think at least)... they definitely sold better than alpha 2, but i think alpha 2 was the best of the series. of course it's just an opinion, but whatever. they catered a lot to people who don't play fighters seriously, whereas the SF3's are commonly confused by many people with SFA3 for some stupid reason (this is from personal experience... "do you play street fighter 3?" "yeah, i have it, street fighter 3, alpha, right?"..... "......... never mind") as said... mvc2 was intended to be a cash cow.... i think they gave up after mvc, which was a fantastic fighting game overall... i just suck donkey balls at it.

[Tech Romancer]

that i didn't know.

amingo? you kidding me? a fucking fat cactus with little cactus lolis and some really stupid ass moves wasn't intended as a "oh, we ran out of ideas, let's do something stupid"?
Well, his design, yeah. But from a gameplay standpoint, no. Those cactus people can control space rather well, has damn good BnB combo, regular damage modifier, damn good range, and not too quick, but not slow either. I know a guy who beasts with him back in Germany and was only above casual level. Preppy's casual match with Ian back in 2004 is another example of good Amingo play.

http://zachd.com/mvc2/fulllist.html?Ian (AmingoCharlieDhalsim) vs Preppy (W ChunSakuraTron)
BTW Preppy, Tron assist so saved your rump in that match ;)


... mvc2 was intended to be a cash cow.... i think they gave up after mvc, which was a fantastic fighting game overall... i just suck donkey balls at it.
Me and you both. How long have you been playing the game? I just started playing seriously like a year or so ago so that's probably why; I see that people on VDO or Preppy level have been playing this for years. I'm just starting to get the hang of it....

[Mixah]

i started the day the game came out... i stopped taking it seriously in 2k3... i still played... but whatev... i haven't played since evo 2k7

[narc]

Personal opinion, (with that obvious out of the way) I think that if you took had most of the god and high tiers as the main cast, and not all the extras characters you'd have maybe a bit more balance then you have now, technically a lot more. With the sheer number of characters I don't really mind the brokenness label that the game has garnered.

However in my mind now, I see the god tier as a makeshift main cast now. Sort of like a MvC1 cast with more easily selectable assists (as opposed to MvC1, but it's really more like MvSF just with three playable characters instead of the team of two). The rest of the characters are just an added bonus.

Perfect world I would obviously like to see more characters be able to compete with God tier without gimmicks or assist dependent teams. I still love the game though even with the lack of team choices at high level play, the small variety in those teams is enough for me. Guess I'm simple like that.

I would be interested in reading about what the developers envisioned for the game, and their opinions on the life it has taken on now.

I've been playing since the game came out, and much like Mixah kinda stopped seriously playing around, I believe, the first Evolution (the one where they showed Bang the Machine for the first time and had the exhibition with the Japanese on SF3 and Alpha 3, which were not tournament games at the time). Still love and enjoy the game in a more casual competition level now with friends and locals. The competition hype really gives the game life, I mean even though I don't play competitively anymore I love watching, mostly due to the love of the progression of skill. From B4 till now there are still new things (even though now they're much more few and far between) that are discovered. I remember when mashing out of Magnetos super was discovered. Imagine how broke Magnus would be without being able to mash with all the rest of his tools now. Back at B4 I think a Magnus player (Image) got third, and that was just with MS > HG > Tempest.

Sorry for the Adderall ramble. I love this game, and the shit talking hyping community.

[Tech Romancer]

There's a variety of fun ways to punish HSF.
Far-screen: Hyper Megaman, DHC to Cable just as the drones are about to hit. (You'll get hit if you screw up the timing.)
Close: call your favorite assist.
Mid: duck and call any assist that covers your body height. They eat drones, you punish Sent.
Assist-less: guard cancel! (probably too hard for most...)

Sentinel's spit (and lifebar) are the annoyances to me.


Well, those are great solutions for Team Preppy, but the rest of us may not use Cable, Megaman and Tron. ;)

[Preppy]

^-- the point was that there are options, and that your own team, which is obviously going to be different because my team is a pretty pathetic one, probably has options you should investigate too before just calling HSF some perfect unpunishable monstrosity. I generally figured out my own solutions on my own, so it's not like you need to be a Marvel genius to come up with answers.

[Tech Romancer]

^-- the point was that there are options, and that your own team, which is obviously going to be different because my team is a pretty pathetic one, probably has options you should investigate too before just calling HSF some perfect unpunishable monstrosity. I generally figured out my own solutions on my own, so it's not like you need to be a Marvel genius to come up with answers.

Crappy?! You whoop ass. I don't see what you're beating yourself up for. My teams are the ones that are crappy; picking characters I like and finding team chemistry later instead of the "proper way"; the other way around.

[Mixah]

Crappy?! You whoop ass. I don't see what you're beating yourself up for. My teams are the ones that are crappy; picking characters I like and finding team chemistry later instead of the "proper way"; the other way around.

stop being a fucking tard.

[Tech Romancer]

stop being a fucking tard.

No. I'll keep being me, no matter what you or anyone says. Stop wasting your time trying to look cool on the threads...it doesn't bother me.

Oh yeah...I see you neg repped me too. Guess my life's gonna end. Seriously, is that supposed to do something? Man, that's weak. :rolleyes:

^ I tried thinking what would work against Sentinel with my main team. I guess...

* Ruby - Freeze time with Red ball super ~ Masastou Goh Hadou
* Akuma - Asura Senkuu (?), but I if I warp behind him, wouldn't I get hit anyways?
* Morrigan - this is a tough match-up. Soul Eraser would work, but only if I did it way in advance. I don't know how to get past it with her.

I guess this should probably be in the low-tier thread or something.

[Mixah]

No. I'll keep being me, no matter what you or anyone says. Stop wasting your time trying to look cool on the threads...it doesn't bother me.

Oh yeah...I see you neg repped me too. Guess my life's gonna end. Seriously, is that supposed to do something? Man, that's weak. :rolleyes:

Not trying to look cool at all. What do you take me for? I'm not exactly 19 years old anymore. I'm passed childish nonsense. However, by attempting to contradict then sucking up to another member of this forum, you make yourself look like a jackass and thus cast a negative view overall on the site.


Well, those are great solutions for Team Preppy, but the rest of us may not use Cable, Megaman and Tron. ;)

Smartass remark, AND completely missing the point of Preppy's post

^-- the point was that there are options, and that your own team, which is obviously going to be different because my team is a pretty pathetic one, probably has options you should investigate too before just calling HSF some perfect unpunishable monstrosity. I generally figured out my own solutions on my own, so it's not like you need to be a Marvel genius to come up with answers.

Preppy's rebuttal where he clearly makes it clear to YOU that you missed his point.

----
interlude: you realizing, "OH SHIT I'm a TARD!", proceeding with this:

Crappy?! You whoop ass. I don't see what you're beating yourself up for.

So, after you realize that you're wrong, you instead attempt to cover it up by sucking up to him than actually admit that you misread his post. GOOD JOB :tup:

[Preppy]

This is a great argument in the wrong thread. Please stop immediately and let's focus on the general game development as opposed to HSF counters. :tup:

[Tech Romancer]

Stuff
(cut out my own reply from earlier)
Nevermind, I'll just say you're completely wrong and leave it at that.


This is a great argument in the wrong thread. Please stop immediately and let's focus on the general game development as opposed to HSF counters. :tup:
I think its a sad argument. And I will take fault for leading the thread in the direction of HSF, although as we were discussing Sentinel I did not consider it at first.

^ And speaking of which, I do think I will take furthur discussion to the low-tier threads. It might interesting to see how someone might deal with Sentinel using Morrigan. I can't do a thing unless I ground him.

[fishjie]

the game would have been more interesting if they hadn't nerfed so many of the characters (sabertooth and wolverine come to mind). oh well. i guess its a good thing arcade games don't have patches, because the game would be a lot more boring if they had released a patch that nerfed sentinel, storm, cable, and magneto to balance out the game.

[jaded]

I don't think so much that anyone is claiming HSF is unbeatable, but that it's unbalanced.

sure, I can try to call assist (if I have that gap to call it) that, if it comes in front of me, I can ahvb sent or sj out, but the timing/skill required to do that is much greater than qcf+kk. That's what i mean by unbalanced.

Would MvC2 be more boring with patches? I don't know that'd be true. All of the sudden you can't just use sent/storm/cable/mag for all solutions, but now you have a much larger cast to pick from. Sure there will still be tiers, but the balance along the lines of T5:DR would have been nice.

a good mishima is much harder to come by than a good Sentinel. there's no dispute over that.

[RisunoMeijin]

Um....you guys know you can just c.normal your way through HSF right?

You can also GC to get out of chip patterns with every character.

Also off hand, many of the people that you play with can c.FP/c.RH xx super through HSF TechRomancer.

Im not testing this in training mode or anything, but seriously, try like c.FPxxrandom super with say....Akuma. Im pretty sure you can bypass HSF punish ably with like 75% of the cast solo with 1 meter charge.

Seriously look into this tech...to many people play sent for you to not know all your options. And to everyone else honestly...before you could GC out, before you knew you could DHC punish, and before you knew normals and assists blew through drones, the only way to punish HSF was to get above sent while he was doing the super. To 90% of the marvel cast that is pretty cheap XD.

I guess im just trying to say tech has a point. For people just starting off, or coming from other FG's even...HSF seems alot more solid than it actually is.

[Tech Romancer]

Um....you guys know you can just c.normal your way through HSF right?

You can also GC to get out of chip patterns with every character.

Also off hand, many of the people that you play with can c.FP/c.RH xx super through HSF TechRomancer.

Im not testing this in training mode or anything, but seriously, try like c.FPxxrandom super with say....Akuma. Im pretty sure you can bypass HSF punish ably with like 75% of the cast solo with 1 meter charge.

Seriously look into this tech...to many people play sent for you to not know all your options. And to everyone else honestly...before you could GC out, before you knew you could DHC punish, and before you knew normals and assists blew through drones, the only way to punish HSF was to get above sent while he was doing the super. To 90% of the marvel cast that is pretty cheap XD.

I guess im just trying to say tech has a point. For people just starting off, or coming from other FG's even...HSF seems alot more solid than it actually is.

Well I was thinking about it after Preppy told me to use my head and I did come up with solutions! See:

--- With Meter ----
* Ruby - Flan Mer
* Gouki - Messatsu Gou Shouryuu (but not if I'm too far away)
* Morrigan - Silhouette Blade; but the the other two could work based on the situation and amount of yomi

--- Without Meter ---
* Ruby - couple ways....could sweep with crouching RK, maybe use Cheval Seller and redirect up and into Sentinel, call Morrigan assist
* Akuma - Asura Senkuu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yboZLO3o4t4) - Thanks, Vidness
* Morrigan - Evasion - Vector Dash; but normals? I don't have a clue besides using Shadow Blade when up-close.

[xero15]

Well I was thinking about it after Preppy told me to use my head and I did come up with solutions! See:

--- With Meter ----
* Ruby - Flan Mer
* Gouki - Messatsu Gou Shouryuu (but not if I'm too far away)
* Morrigan - Silhouette Blade; but the the other two could work based on the situation and amount of yomi

--- Without Meter ---
* Ruby - couple ways....could sweep with crouching RK, maybe use Cheval Seller and redirect up and into Sentinel, call Morrigan assist
* Akuma - Asura Senkuu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yboZLO3o4t4) - Thanks, Vidness
* Morrigan - Evasion - Vector Dash; but normals? I don't have a clue besides using Shadow Blade when up-close.

as far as meter goes wouldnt the boat be better since its almost instant as where the ghost come out but you still get hit unless you dhc?

[Tech Romancer]

No, the boat is fast, but isn't instant. And unlike the Flan, while it protects and overrides against a lot of stuff, it isn't invincible at start-up. The Flan is instant, invincible and allows me DHC or quickly hit Sent (if close enough).

[tharimrattler]

I like to assume good faith on Capcom and think that they didn't intend for any of these guys to have the absurd tools that they have. It's common knowledge they tried to rush the game out the door and basically just made a character buffet from all the previous games. I mean, when a "god tier" is created in a game that generally means something is very, very wrong. I remember a friend telling me back about tiers, that basically God Tier = banned tier. This is like one of the few games people decided not to do that and I think it ruins and dwindles the span of the game.

On the other hand, I'm willing to assume that when they figured out all the shit people were pulling, thus creating a "god tier" they'd stay away from interviews as much as possible. ;)

I just realized Oni-Suzuki worked on this game, CvS2, Project Justice and (I think) Vampire Savior. I wish I was into the scene back then; I would've asked him about this stuff. Then again, AHVB, Sent's HSF, etc. weren't figured out until a little later into the game's lifetime.

Dude shut up! You are so ignorant/annoying!

[MaxVandalism315]

^ i need to spread my rep before i can pos rep u again :(

[Tech Romancer]

^ This thread just shot to hell again.

[xero15]

i thought flan was the ghost. obviously i dont pay attention to the names of supers.