Empire-online top 50 comic book characters

[darksoul173]

http://www.empireonline.com/50greatestcomiccharacters/

Well what do ya think about that list? *waiting for all Deadpool fans to rant about being rank so low*

[chopperbyrne]

Constantine should be a lot lower.

Doom should be a lot higher.

The main reason the list fails is because Norman Osborn isn't on it.

[Zephyranthes]

I stopped reading it after I saw Spawn on the list.

[Sano]

Spider-Man at #5 below Wolverine? I blame OMD. :rofl:

[Carpet Lint]

Haha, open window, Spawn at #50, close window.

[darksoul173]

:lol: yep Spawn should be minus 50

[Sano]

They forgot Uncle Scrooge. Blasphemy I say, BLASPHEMY! :annoy: Carl Barks (RIP) and Don Rosa FTW. :tup:

[Pained Auron]

deadpool is not #1. the list is invalid

[oDaS]

hmm the tick was a tad low for my taste

and no Lobo at all? wow they were slippin

[goodm0urning]

Number one.


*lights pipe, adjusts fez*

Yes, yes.

[P. Gorath]

any list with maus in it is auto fail for me

death and dream in the top 15 is wankery

rorshach is too low

they put a picture of grendel prime for the Hunter Rose entry

venom? seriously?

I would have added: Virginia Applejack, Kevin Matchstick, Magnus Robot Fighter, The Crow

[Sheng-Long]

lol venom, dr strange, marv, hellboy, ironman, magneto, the thing, deena pilgrim, agent graves, emma frost, john constantine, spider-jerusalem, jenny sparks, saint of killers, jesse custer, apollo and midnighter shouldn't even be on that goddamn list.

Also, for all the euro-fanboy stuff that list had, it didn't have Marvelman?

[m121akuma]

deadpool is not #1. the list is invalid

I haven't even seen it yet, but agreed.

Deadpool is the best thing since sliced chimichangas.

[Zephyranthes]

any list with maus in it is auto fail for me


Why do you hate Maus so much? Give me the unabridged rant.

[Windlord0]

I guess they wanted some lesser known comics to get some accolades, but without The Crow, nothing from Top Cow, and nobody from Kabuki I don't like this list.

Constantine and Dredd don't deserve to be so high. Constantine still deserves a place on the list, and Dredd's comics I thought sucked, but Stallone's amazing performance as him would warrant a spot somewhere as well, but nowhere near the top ten. I'm glad sandman got a mention, but it doesn't deserve two spots, when so many others are missing.

Oh and fuck spawn. He is iconic, but so are the flash and robin, and they didn't make it. If it was just being iconic then this list would have just been a who's who of marvel and DC characters, with maybe 4-5 others thrown in.

[goodm0urning]

The Crow is self-indulgent dogshit, and Spawn is merely an attempt at iconography.

[Sano]

Why do you hate Maus so much? Give me the unabridged rant.

To be honest I found Maus to be a little boring myself and found it more entertaining to read books on concentration camps like Eli Weasel's Night or One Day In the Live of Ivan Denisovich. I don't hate Maus though but I don't praise it as highly as others do I suppose. If it serves as a gateway for people to read other kinds of literature on the subject or more attention to horrors of the past, than so be it. For that alone it belongs somewhere on some list, maybe not a list for comic book characters though but one for greatest comics at the very least for it's importance, something like that. I mean I found From Hell entertaining but I don't think Jack the Ripper belongs on a 50 greatest comic book character list either...

I don't know, lists are wierd... I think the only list that counts is the one you have in your head. Well that should be the only list that matters, to yourself anyway.

[DS]

List sucks. Real talk.

[Septimus Prime]

#1 and #2 are legit (like anyone really thought it wouldn't be them, in that order), but the rest of the list is trash.

[Violent By Design]

I'm not a harsh credits on the list. But this list had some serious flaws.

I think because they were trying so hard to have lesser comic book characters on the list they really lost their priorities. I mean some of those rankings were outragous.

[goodm0urning]

The irony about the huge number of lists we have these days is that not many of them are particularly valid or relevant. In order to attempt to canonize something, there must be a set of specific criteria. This is how a canon works.

The criteria behind most of the lists we see these days (including this one) are a mystery. What is Empire going by? Sometimes it seems to be cultural relevance. Others it seems to be underappreciation. Sometimes it's down to "Well, we like them, so we stuck them in the list somewhere." A canon is meaningless if there isn't a uniform system of reasoning for why A comes before B, and why D comes after C.

Like Sep said, Superman (number one) and Batman (number two) are obvious choices. Whatever criteria you devise for a canon of great comic book characters, those two are pretty much a shoe-in for the top spots in any instance. The rest of the list is a series of arbitrary choices, ranked in arbitrary order. Try not to get too bent out of shape about it and enjoy the exposure that some of your lesser-known favorites are getting.

[robotchop]

batman should beat out superman
list is weak

[Are_you_okay?!]

batman should beat out superman
list is weak

Seconded.

[goodm0urning]

batman should beat out superman
list is weakSeconded.Why's that?

[Are_you_okay?!]

Why's that?

Other than my biased opinion, Batman just seems more iconic to me these days. When I ask my brothers who is there favorite superhero, it's either Batman, Spidey, or the Hulk that comes out.

They even have a Superman action figure, and my bro keeps asking me who it is.

I just prefer Bats, and these days I believe his comics are selling better. Seems most of the top 10 is based on that.

[goodm0urning]

Other than my biased opinion, Batman just seems more iconic to me these days. When I ask my brothers who is there favorite superhero, it's either Batman, Spidey, or the Hulk that comes out.

They even have a Superman action figure, and my bro keeps asking me who it is.

I just prefer Bats, and these days I believe his comics are selling better. Seems most of the top 10 is based on that.That's fair enough, except I don't think Batman will ever be more iconic than Supes. I do think he fits with our cynical times a little bit better, but Superman as a symbol carries so much more weight. In our collective consciousness, the simple figure of the "S" inside the pentagonal shield conveys tons of meaning in and of itself, in a way that I'm not sure Batman's choice of insignia ever could. By modern standards, Superman has gone a bit square, but everything he stands for still counts and is embodied in his image.

But we could debate that all day, and we wouldn't reach a conclusion any more valid than these lists. We ultimately have no good working criteria for superheroic iconography, anymore than the list makers have good criteria for making their lists. As you said, it's either down to sales figures (which don't necessarily mean anything important) or general favoritism (even more meaningless, unless you have the exact same personal tastes as the people who made the list).

It would be nice to see someone take a shot at developing well-rounded worthy criteria and work out a real canon for comic book characters, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

[Are_you_okay?!]

That's fair enough, except I don't think Batman will ever be more iconic than Supes. I do think he fits with our cynical times a little bit better, but Superman as a symbol carries so much more weight. In our collective consciousness, the simple figure of the "S" inside the pentagonal shield conveys tons of meaning in and of itself, in a way that I'm not sure Batman's choice of insignia ever could. By modern standards, Superman has gone a bit square, but everything he stands for still counts and is embodied in his image.

But we could debate that all day, and we wouldn't reach a conclusion any more valid than these lists. We ultimately have no good working criteria for superheroic iconography, anymore than the list makers have good criteria for making their lists. As you said, it's either down to sales figures (which don't necessarily mean anything important) or general favoritism (even more meaningless, unless you have the exact same personal tastes as the people who made the list).

It would be nice to see someone take a shot at developing well-rounded worthy criteria and work out a real canon for comic book characters, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

I agree with all of this, Superman is very iconic, I just think these days he's kinda lost his touch with the general public. This can be easily solved by a new movie, preferably with a villain that can take a punch and give one back.

I'm sure SRK could develop a great, well rounded list of great comic characters....for a while at least. It would then end up being a fight for #1 status between the Deadpool fan base, The Church of Bru, and all three FAAAAAAABLES!!111 fans.

[Rugal 3:16]

The Right Top 3 should be

1. Supes
2. Bats
3. Spidey

No Way is Wolverine Higher than Spidey, and supes has the most intriguing history, interpretations and mythos of them all that stoof the test of time through the years

[Sano]

I'm sure SRK could develop a great, well rounded list of great comic characters....for a while at least. It would then end up being a fight for #1 status between the Deadpool fan base, The Church of Bru, and all three FAAAAAAABLES!!111 fans.

Sounds like fun! Maybe in November when people are voting for the President we can do something like that. Everyone picks anywhere from 1-10 characters and I'll count the votes. I'm thinking it can run from November 1 - 30.

If people want me to and providing my schedule's not too crazy in November, like it is now... I imagine it won't be but not 100% certain...

Only thing, DC characters are sure to get shafted. This is SRK, afterall. :rofl:

[shadowkiller]

I said to my self that if superman and batman are first and second i wouldn't bother checking the rest... It doesn't pay off to be right most of the time.

[robotchop]

That's fair enough, except I don't think Batman will ever be more iconic than Supes. I do think he fits with our cynical times a little bit better, but Superman as a symbol carries so much more weight. In our collective consciousness, the simple figure of the "S" inside the pentagonal shield conveys tons of meaning in and of itself, in a way that I'm not sure Batman's choice of insignia ever could. By modern standards, Superman has gone a bit square, but everything he stands for still counts and is embodied in his image.

But we could debate that all day, and we wouldn't reach a conclusion any more valid than these lists. We ultimately have no good working criteria for superheroic iconography, anymore than the list makers have good criteria for making their lists. As you said, it's either down to sales figures (which don't necessarily mean anything important) or general favoritism (even more meaningless, unless you have the exact same personal tastes as the people who made the list).

It would be nice to see someone take a shot at developing well-rounded worthy criteria and work out a real canon for comic book characters, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

you make really good points. The main reason I wanted batman first was mainly for selfish reasons: I like him more haha. I've never been that big of a superman fan and once I read dark knight returns I became convinced batman was the hardest dude ever. but I agree about superman being a very iconic figure and hes definitely a character that will always be important.

[RockCho]

Where's Goku?

Superman is way more iconic than Batman sorry. Believe it or not, Superman is the embodiment of the American Dream. He was a newborn child sent off and raised in a world where he's given opportunities he could never have on his homeland. Not only is this dude accepted into this foreign culture, he becomes VERY successful and becomes well... Superman.

Superman is the ideal for every immigrant that comes to America basically.. and every culture in the US is of course one that immigrated into it. Other than the natvie Americans of course.

[brandowned]

Why does everyone hate Spawn? I have never really read the comics just watched the HBO animated series. Is Spawn just written that shitty?

[chopperbyrne]

Why does everyone hate Spawn? I have never really read the comics just watched the HBO animated series. Is Spawn just written that shitty?

I don't think people hate Spawn that much, more they hate that after Spawn came out style over substance ruled the roost for a few years in the 90s.

[archetype]

Also, for all the euro-fanboy stuff that list had, it didn't have Marvelman?

my thoughts exactly

[Sano]

What's been going on the last few weeks? I added this to the rules just last week because someone did this a week ago... Anyway, please refrain from using the word f*****, you know the word that's offensive to homosexuals. Some mods will give you an infraction right on the spot for using that word. Said word has been edited out of posts. Please do not use that word in this forum. It's hurtful and there are people who are offended by it.

If you wish to discuss in detail, my PM box is always open.

Thanks and carry on.

[KnuckIfYouBuckley]

I wish this list had Invincible in there somewhere, definitely my favorite hero and the one I most identify with.

Batman trumps Superman for me always. Who likes a boy scout in this day and age?

[Are_you_okay?!]

Sounds like fun! Maybe in November when people are voting for the President we can do something like that. Everyone picks anywhere from 1-10 characters and I'll count the votes. I'm thinking it can run from November 1 - 30.

If people want me too and providing my schedule's not too crazy in November, like it is now... I imagine it won't be but not 100% certain...

Only thing, DC characters are sure to get shafted. This is SRK, afterall. :rofl:

Sounds like a plan to me, would be pretty fun to vote on this.

KIYB, where the heck have you been? I haven't seen you post in ages, lol.

[KnuckIfYouBuckley]

Sounds like a plan to me, would be pretty fun to vote on this.

KIYB, where the heck have you been? I haven't seen you post in ages, lol.

Let's see...since May of last year I've been in Missouri (2 months), Arizona (4 months), Central Texas (5 months), Kuwait (10 days) and now Iraq. LOL. I joined the Army a little over a year ago. Since then I've mostly been posting in the Premium thread.

[Are_you_okay?!]

Let's see...since May of last year I've been in Missouri (2 months), Arizona (4 months), Central Texas (5 months), Kuwait (10 days) and now Iraq. LOL. I joined the Army a little over a year ago. Since then I've mostly been posting in the Premium thread.

You are a busy man :amazed:

Well good to see you semi-back in the normal threads, didn't know you liked comics.

[KnuckIfYouBuckley]

You are a busy man :amazed:

Well good to see you semi-back in the normal threads, didn't know you liked comics.

Why thanks. :D

I enjoy my fair share of comics, everything from the Watchmen to Jojo's Bizarre Adventure to anything by Robert Kirkman (especially Invincible) to Batman.

I remember going to a spring sale at Bedrock City Comics the day after prom and buying $200 worth of Batman stuff. Some of which has since been sold off.

Back when 52 was being released, I'd go to the comic shop every Wednesday to pick up the latest issue.

So yeah, I'm a comics fan.

[MUSOLINI]

most of them look shitty or are just shitty. one thing i don't get is how come batman is the oldest comic hero out there but not the most popular one. IIRC its got more movies and shit than superhoe? also even if i don't like superhoe's or marvel or dc, spiderman IS on of the few good heros and one of the most popular. should have been 1 IMO, at least the cartoon was better than super, and as good as the last batman.

[Sano]

most of them look shitty or are just shitty. one thing i don't get is how come batman is the oldest comic hero out there but not the most popular one. IIRC its got more movies and shit than superhoe? also even if i don't like superhoe's or marvel or dc, spiderman IS on of the few good heros and one of the most popular. should have been 1 IMO, at least the cartoon was better than super, and as good as the last batman.

Superman's older than Batman actually. Supe's technically the first super hero ever.

[goodm0urning]

Batman trumps Superman for me always. Who likes a boy scout in this day and age?At this point, the "grim 'n' gritty antihero" shit is more played out than the boy scout superhero ever was.

It's no accident that a book like All Star Superman is garnering so much acclaim. It's not just that it's well written and well drawn; it's definitely hitting at just the right time. I think it's sort of its own little backlash against the trend of dark-for-the-sake-of-dark comics that ruled the 90s and early 2000s.

[Zephyranthes]

I agree with all of this, Superman is very iconic, I just think these days he's kinda lost his touch with the general public. This can be easily solved by a new movie, preferably with a villain that can take a punch and give one back.


Superman hasn't lost touch with the general public. The general public's lost touch with him. Superman is the epitome of all that is good in humanity, and we just aren't worthy.

I wish this list had Invincible in there somewhere, definitely my favorite hero and the one I most identify with.

Hey, by the way, I've been taking good care of those Invincible HCs you sold me the other month. I devoured them all in like two sittings.

[Sheng-Long]

Batman in the comic books has become a joke.

Reading it is like playing a video game with money cheat + god mode. I know DC fans hate Wolverine for being broken but Bruce Wayne is just fuckin ridiculous.

What if Wolverine was the richest man in the Marvel universe (surpassed Lex Luthor even, for some reason), and with that money decides to protect a city, but oh wait...that city's crime hasn't decreased at all despite all his efforts! ...but Wolverine is supposed to be the best as at what he does! He's a trained ninja afterall! and has million dollar gadgets! He's also the world's best detective...except he can't solve his parent's murder for some reason... he also is quite the ladies man...but that's just for show of course, he really prefers them younger (and male)....sure one of them died under his care but that's part of the job of being a vigilante! (He was underage, sure he couldn't have rendered consent and he shouldn't have been really risking his life just so Wolverine has somebody to play cops and robbers with). So with all that money and all that effort to clean up the city he lives in, Wolverine still fails?...miserably...but somehow he's the greatest hero in the world?

I can't wait for Batman: Dark Knight...at least that one is more rooted on what Batman used to be about.

[KnuckIfYouBuckley]

Hey, by the way, I've been taking good care of those Invincible HCs you sold me the other month. I devoured them all in like two sittings.

Hahahaha yeah, that book's hard to put down isn't it?

[goodm0urning]

Batman in the comic books has become a joke.

Reading it is like playing a video game with money cheat + god mode. I know DC fans hate Wolverine for being broken but Bruce Wayne is just fuckin ridiculous.

What if Wolverine was the richest man in the Marvel universe (surpassed Lex Luthor even, for some reason), and with that money decides to protect a city, but oh wait...that city's crime hasn't decreased at all despite all his efforts! ...but Wolverine is supposed to be the best as at what he does! He's a trained ninja afterall! and has million dollar gadgets! He's also the world's best detective...except he can't solve his parent's murder for some reason... he also is quite the ladies man...but that's just for show of course, he really prefers them younger (and male)....sure one of them died under his care but that's part of the job of being a vigilante! (He was underage, sure he couldn't have rendered consent and he shouldn't have been really risking his life just so Wolverine has somebody to play cops and robbers with). So with all that money and all that effort to clean up the city he lives in, Wolverine still fails?...miserably...but somehow he's the greatest hero in the world?

I can't wait for Batman: Dark Knight...at least that one is more rooted on what Batman used to be about.B-but he's so cool... and I can relate to him! Fuck you, BATMAN IS AWESOME. *faps*

[robotchop]

My issue with superman isn't so much the boy scout thing, but mainly he's just too powerful. I like batman cause he's just a normal guy (physically at least. mentally the dudes paranoid as shit and probably just as crazy). I really want to read all star superman cause I heard it's really good. goodmourning you're right about the grime and gritty thing though because it seems like everything from books, video games, and film are all about that stuff now a days. I'm sure soon it will get to the point where you'll be eating some trix or captain crunch cereal and learn how the rabbit/ the captain must ban together in a world lost in chaos and misery in order regain their cereals and save the world...or some lame thing like that.

[Zephyranthes]

Hahahaha yeah, that book's hard to put down isn't it?

Yeah, it's a pretty compulsive read. It's a lot better when I have a whole stack of issues (or hardcovers) to burn through all at once, too. That way I was able to see (and remember) a lot of the various subplots. I remember reading the series when it first came out and I kind of stopped after the second TPB because of the pacing. Now, I think Invincible's like a good '80s soap opera/superhero comic, but without the cheesy, ham-fisted dialogue and unnecessary exposition captions.

[goodm0urning]

My issue with superman isn't so much the boy scout thing, but mainly he's just too powerful. I like batman cause he's just a normal guy (physically at least. mentally the dudes paranoid as shit and probably just as crazy).In theory, Batman being a human without special powers could make him more interesting, but in practice, it just doesn't work. The writers typically make him capable of ludicrous things so he can keep up with the rest of the DC heroes, such as maintaining his mental acuity while going for days without sleeping, suffering no ill effects from repeated injuries that would shortly cripple a real person, and so on. Superman is more believable because his alien heritage at least gives him an excuse for doing things that an ordinary man wouldn't be capable of. What's Batman's excuse?

[Rugal 3:16]

I really find it retarded when some of my old gradeschool classmates hated supes because he's "Too Powerful" and then I ask him who would win in a fight between supes and *pit a marvel character with class 100 strength* in a weightlifting contest..

they always say the Marvel character with the class 100 strength but they don't label them too powerful,...

BTW Batman is my favourite character ever. but if it comes to the theory of

Smiling goody goody boy scout (that GenX-ers hate)
vs the extreme polt-less angst ridden era of the 90's with dark alleys, guns and trenchcoats

I'd EASILY go with the former.

F*CK being "cool" i'm no longer a teenager.

The Notion of Supes being a "lonely Alien" in a world not his own and being looked upon is a much more strenious even as a repsonsibility itself, and more human IMO thing than paying bills, and taking care of a sick aunt.

BTW the term "Super-Hero" can be arguably be coined from "Superman"

[Rugal 3:16]

Who likes a boy scout in this day and age?

People who are sick and tired of 90's era coolness since generally it restraints creativity, very pointless and limiting and appeals to a demographic who's just growing pubic hairs and finds it hip to be rebellious to parents.

Basically Darker does not = more depth.

[archetype]

Kid Miracle should have been numero uno haha