Konami suing Rock Band creators

[ChairHome]

Link (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=aHQODoKwFYrA&refer=japan).


July 10 (Bloomberg) -- Konami Corp., the Japanese creator of the ``Dance Dance Revolution'' music video game, sued Viacom Inc.'s Harmonix studio, claiming its ``Rock Band'' game violates patents.

The Konami patents, issued in 2002 and 2003, relate to simulated musical instruments, a music-game system and a ``musical-rhythm matching game.'' Konami also makes the ``Karaoke Revolution'' music game with microphones, as well as the ``Metal Gear Solid'' espionage game.

``Rock Band,'' the game in which players emulate rock and rollers with toy instruments, drove a 16 percent increase in first-quarter revenue at New York-based Viacom's media networks business. Konami's Digital Entertainment unit said in May it plans to begin selling its own rock band game, called ``Rock Revolution,'' later this year.

Konami is demanding cash compensation, plus an order that would block Viacom and Harmonix from using the inventions, according to the complaint, filed yesterday in federal court in Marshall, Texas. The suit names Harmonix Music Systems, Viacom, and Viacom's MTV Networks Co., which owns Harmonix.

Viacom spokeswoman Kelly McAndrew said the company hasn't received the complaint, so had no immediate comment.

Konami American depositary receipts, each representing one ordinary share, fell $1.67, or 5.2 percent, to $30.15 at 4:02 p.m. in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. They have risen 26 percent in the past year. Viacom's Class B shares rose 22 cents to $28.12 and have dropped 32 percent in the past year.

The case is Konami Digital Entertainment Co. v. Harmonix Music Systems Inc., 08cv286, U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Texas (Marshall).

I guess it makes sense that they would do it when they're competing product is getting ready to be released? Its kind of late for this.... Personally, I can see why they're doing it, but then they'd have to sue Activision for Guitar Hero, and maybe other companies for the other karaoke games (High School Musical?). I think Rock Band stands above the competition though... so hopefully it doesn't interfere with the release of RB 2...

[Grog]

Honestly I'm surprised this didn't happen years ago with Guitar Hero, do they think this is a magic trump card that will be more of a marketting ploy to help their newer version?

[DanielRGT]

It's kind of late for them to suddenly go "Oh right we should sue them"

If they honestly had anything that could win they would've sued them a long time ago. The reality is they're not confident about Rock Revolution so they just want a piece of the Rock Band pie. They probably will be denied that deliciously decadent pie, and Rock Band will continue to thrive.

[mastermind]

If anything, Konami should've sued Red Octane years ago for ripping off their DDR pads and such. It would've built a "AMERICANS BIT OFF OUR GAMES" case or something towards Guitar Hero and ultimately lead to Activision/Neversoft and Harmonix/EA.

[Adam Warlock]

You'd think they'd sue the actual DDR ripoffs first.

[DanielRGT]

You'd think they'd sue the actual DDR ripoffs first.

They already did:

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=25802


I think there's still like 50000 more out there though.
Also, it's kind of different considering when you mention a DDR ripoff people will often go "You mean DDR?" because DDR has already won it's "Dancing but not really dancing" genre.

They had the rhythm game idea before Harmonix with Guitar Freaks, Drummania, etc. but they weren't as popular as Guitar Hero because some people just REALLY don't like J-Pop.

[mastermind]

Bemani = win. It's a shame they couldn't really make the full western translation for the whole instrument games. Guitar Freaks, Drummania, and Keyboard Mania would have covered a LOT of ground if they had more recognizable american songs on their lists.

And if IIDX was available with some "american" electronic songs, people would eat that up over here.

[DanielRGT]

I would buy rock revolution if it had playable versions of video game themes.

Like I'd buy it so fuckin' fast

[ethnic_scrap]

As far as the Guitar Hero issue goes, it seems like Activision is in the clear.

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=16014

[Mr-Phelps]

Drumscape (http://www.drumscape.biz/), its basically explains the same thing ethnic_scrap posted

[Black Chanler]

I didnt think you could sue over game concepts, just character likeness.

[DanielRGT]

I didnt think you could sue over game concepts, just character likeness.

You can if the clone game is making a shitton more money.

[PozerWolf]

You'd think they'd sue the actual DDR ripoffs first.
They already did.

RIP, In The Groove 3 =(

[tsukihimeblood]

They already did.

RIP, In The Groove 3 =(

twas a sad day. ITG >>> DDR

[Warpticon]

twas a sad day. ITG >>> DDR

ITG + good music >>> ddr

ITG <= DDR

[UltraDavid]

I didnt think you could sue over game concepts, just character likeness.Yeah, well... I don't know what to tell ya. The patent system is more than a little broken at this point.

[Derez-]

If anything, Konami should've sued Red Octane years ago for ripping off their DDR pads and such. It would've built a "AMERICANS BIT OFF OUR GAMES" case or something towards Guitar Hero and ultimately lead to Activision/Neversoft and Harmonix/EA.


I believe redoctane pays a royalty to Konami for every guitar hero that is sold.


And all this ITG > DDR stuff......it's the same goddamn game with different music. Except ITG had some old ddr songs on it as well so....

[Alex]

Sony might as well start sueing for everyone bitting off PaRappa the Rapper.

[tsukihimeblood]

And all this ITG > DDR stuff......it's the same goddamn game with different music. Except ITG had some old ddr songs on it as well so....

i couldn't care less about the music. itg has better(imo)/more challenging stepcharts and more features than ddr.

meh, doesn't matter anyway. konami won. i need to get ahold of a hacked ITG2 machine and put some stepmania songs on there.

i don't see them winning this one though.

[Akuma4Real]

Konami has been suing like crazy over music games. I don't blame them, they missed out on some major business over here. People here don't even know what Guitar Freaks is or Drummania. Keyboardmania, maybe.

[Grog]

twas a sad day. ITG >>> DDR

Yeah, I chat with Vospi quite a bit and he had a contract to have some songs in ITG as well, really too bad for him since that would've been a HUGE help for him.

[sainthuey]

word, fuck were they thinking making guitar hero straight stole from guitar freaks, I knew it was just a matter of time till drum mania/beat mania came to america too, america ruins everything smh.

[BaSiK_TeKniK]

Yes finally. Now for that evil guitar hero...

[PozerWolf]

i could care less about the music. itg has better(imo)/more challenging stepcharts and more features than ddr.
Truth!
I heard part 3 of ITG was just going to destory DDR (haven't played part 3 myself)with all the new stuff added.


But just like this senerio(?), I guess Konami likes to wait and see if the people who "ripped them off" and waits till they get enough money so they can sue them or something, lol.

I love Konami's games, but c'mon =/
"Hey, looks like there doing a better version of our game. Let's sue them!"

[Syxx573]

This goes back a long time, even before the whole ITG thing started, which I fucking saw coming a mile away before the game actually came out. The game is a blatant ripoff and used the same damn machine that DDR did (litterally)

Back in the olden times when Pump It Up was released at almost the exact same time, Konami and Andamiro (maker of PIU) sued each other, and it resulted in Andamiro paying Konami some money.

so ya, they did sue BOTH of the DDR "ripoffs" first, though if PIU is not really considered a ripoff because... the mystery still remains as to which came first, DDR or PIU.


Now on to this nonsense, I don't know if Konami has much of a case. MTV owns the rights to Drum-based games in the US because of their shitty "game" Drumscape, which I've "played" but all it does is play like an Eminem or some other gay song in the background and you just hit whatever drums you want, and there is no guidance or anything as to what notes you need to be hitting.

So it'll be interesting to see what exactly Konami is suing over.

Don't get me wrong, rock band (THE DRUMS ONLY) is pretty fun but I'm a pretty big Bemani fan, so I'm hoping things go smoothly with the release of Rock Revolution.


Oh and far as Konami WAITING to sue people... what is the point of suing companies without money? ;) They're just like the music game mafia, and just want a little slice of the action. :)

[Warpticon]

i could care less about the music. itg has better(imo)/more challenging stepcharts and more features than ddr.

meh, doesn't matter anyway. konami won. i need to get ahold of a hacked ITG2 machine and put some stepmania songs on there.

i don't see them winning this one though.

I play ITG, but I usually have a hard time finding a song I actually want to play. Granted, if you're AAAing 10's on DDR, I can see where the higher level charts would be appealing, but that's a pretty small minority of dance gamers in general. (and who knows, maybe I'd be there if I hadn't basically quit playing in early '04...) And, beyond mines and a handful of arrow scroll styles, what "features" does ITG have that are so far beyond DDR, anyway?

Also, couldn't care less.

[Grog]

I play ITG, but I usually have a hard time finding a song I actually want to play. Granted, if you're AAAing 10's on DDR, I can see where the higher level charts would be appealing, but that's a pretty small minority of dance gamers in general. (and who knows, maybe I'd be there if I hadn't basically quit playing in early '04...) And, beyond mines and a handful of arrow scroll styles, what "features" does ITG have that are so far beyond DDR, anyway?

Also, couldn't care less.

Yeah you're absolutely right on this, for those of us who were tired of the same easy songs on DDR this was a relief but the mainstream gamer really doesn't care about that and wants to play better songs. Just to answer your question though the songs are a little longer, it's actually 3D so the mods are better (if you like them), and if you're lucky the arcade you're at has a dedicated cab which is much more sensitive and durable :tup:

Can't think of anything else that would make ITG better than DDR for the common person.

[tsukihimeblood]

I play ITG, but I usually have a hard time finding a song I actually want to play. Granted, if you're AAAing 10's on DDR, I can see where the higher level charts would be appealing, but that's a pretty small minority of dance gamers in general. (and who knows, maybe I'd be there if I hadn't basically quit playing in early '04...) And, beyond mines and a handful of arrow scroll styles, what "features" does ITG have that are so far beyond DDR, anyway?
by features I was talking more about battle mode, easy USB profiles, add your own songs/stepcharts, that kind of stuff. i agree that most of the songlist is pretty forgettable though.
Also, couldn't care less.
heh, thanks. fixed it.
and if you're lucky the arcade you're at has a dedicated cab which is much more sensitive and durable
oh god, the dedicated machine pad is so much better. we had one for a while but it's gone. :sad:

[Warpticon]

by features I was talking more about battle mode, easy USB profiles, add your own songs/stepcharts, that kind of stuff. i agree that most of the songlist is pretty forgettable though.

lol, i'm pretty much just arguing for the sake of arguing.

oh god, the dedicated machine pad is so much better. we had one for a while but it's gone. :sad:

Heh, our dedicab kinda sucks...it breaks down more than any of our DDR pads did, and the left side wobbles. And somehow the USB key thing slipped my mind, that's a pretty awesome feature (though I guarantee if DDR had come out in '06 instead of '08 it'd have had the same thing...after all, it supports freaking playstation memory cards)

And i think you missed me correcting your grammar. :lol: saying "I could care less" is indicating that you care quite a bit, which is the opposite of what you're trying to say. :arazz:

[tsukihimeblood]

And i think you missed me correcting your grammar. :lol: saying "I could care less" is indicating that you care quite a bit, which is the opposite of what you're trying to say. :arazz:

yeah, i thought you meant something else at first :sweat:

[Syxx573]

all the hype about ITG has to do with the features and you can upload your own songs

the songs that are in the game by default suck

so i think people just care more about the stepmania aspect of it

NOT that it's IN THE GROOVE

but that it's custom DDR

[Pablo_the_Mex]

If they were going to do this, they should have done it sooner. That is what Konami gets for acting like a bitch and not releasing these type of games here in the states with American songs and not that queer ass j-rock.

[pherai]

They had the rhythm game idea before Harmonix with Guitar Freaks, Drummania, etc. but they weren't as popular as Guitar Hero because some people just REALLY don't like J-Pop.

I'd be hesitant to say the reason those games weren't popular was because of the soundtracks when the only way they even made it stateside was as imports.

[Warpticon]

I'd be hesitant to say the reason those games weren't popular was because of the soundtracks when the only way they even made it stateside was as imports.

They took waaaay too long to bring Beatmania over, and when they did, they gave it a shitty interface with some hideous colors and a bunch of old songs. Ironically, the US controller is way better than the much more expensive JP one. Just never made any sense to me.

[Night]

Bemani = win. It's a shame they couldn't really make the full western translation for the whole instrument games. Guitar Freaks, Drummania, and Keyboard Mania would have covered a LOT of ground if they had more recognizable american songs on their lists.

And if IIDX was available with some "american" electronic songs, people would eat that up over here.

Yup.

It either just a REALLY bad oversight, or for whatever reason, they just didn't think they could make it a sellable product in the US. Konami has only themselves to blame for not taking a shot at that opportunity. They had all the technology and everything first, but just didn't take the chance at localizing it, and maybe Guitar Hero or Rock Band may not have existed if they did so, who knows.

[pherai]

There you go. The support for those games here was almost null. In fact I think most people would kind of enjoy J Rock. I'll bet if Guitar Hero released a version with a bunch of J Rock it would sell. Fuck, if they can do all Aerosmith songs, they could sell anything.

[StuartHayden]

Good. Fuck Rock Band.

[tsukihimeblood]

Ironically, the US controller is way better than the much more expensive JP one. Just never made any sense to me.

Really? I'd hate to try the jp version then. My US one has a really stiff turntable but the buttons aren't too bad. Maybe i'm just spoiled by the arcade version.

[iwst99]

And i think you missed me correcting your grammar. :lol: saying "I could care less" is indicating that you care quite a bit, which is the opposite of what you're trying to say. :arazz:

Maybe he did mean he "could care less" because he cares even less about your grammar correction?

JK..........

I'm also surprised this didn't happen sooner, and those articles on DDR/PIU and Drumscape pattents were all very interesting.

In Mexico all you see is PIU from what I remember.

[Night]

There you go. The support for those games here was almost null. In fact I think most people would kind of enjoy J Rock. I'll bet if Guitar Hero released a version with a bunch of J Rock it would sell. Fuck, if they can do all Aerosmith songs, they could sell anything.

Well, Aerosmith is one of the most recognized bands in US music history, so of course that would sell and with GH already being an established name, it helps with future releases. I don't necessarily think a version with Japanese songs would be a super hit, it'd probably sell well with the otaku crowd, but for the casual white person gamer maybe not as much because the average non-otaku probably prefers to play/listen to a song where they actually understand the lyrics.

I guess if they released one in the future with Japanese music, it might sell to non-otakus because of the status GH/Rock Band has already gained from the past success. But if the timing was that the first ever Guitar Hero released just had a soundtrack of Japanese music, that would've probably failed, and that's why Konami didn't pursue that opportunity because that's all they had and didn't think about scoring anything with US music as only the otakus went out of their way to import Guitar Freaks. It was their own fault for that oversight.

[Warpticon]

Really? I'd hate to try the jp version then. My US one has a really stiff turntable but the buttons aren't too bad. Maybe i'm just spoiled by the arcade version.

THe turntable is really stiff but with an easy mod or just a lot of play it loosens up. JP KOCs get sticky keys REALLY easy. You can't do shit when your key needs to be pried back out of its socket.

I've only gotten to play arcade once. :( I still intend to get a Dao RE someday.

A J-rock game in America would have to have some sort of hook to draw people in, because average dude is not going to spend an extra whatever on a game full of stuff that looks completely outside his area of interest.

PIU is fun, btw. I'd play it more if I had easier access. Music is better than ITG, and it gets pretty fucking stupid at high levels.

Reminds me of yet another way Beatmania US was a massive failure. Put 60 songs on the game....but stick half of them on the old, obsolete 5-key interface. Yay, one difficulty level and no upgrade path for anything. That was sheer idiocy. The game has a massive learning curve as it is; why make it more complicated? Also, there was absolutely no reason to rape the scoring system.

[EveryFlowerFlow]

This is maybe the ONE thread Sep can't talk in. Let's all make fun of him behind his back. :tup:

I heard Sep has 6 toes.

[Grog]

This is maybe the ONE thread Sep can't talk in. Let's all make fun of him behind his back. :tup:

I heard Sep has 6 toes.

And they're webbed like a frog





..... ribbit.

[Superking]

Honestly I'm surprised this didn't happen years ago with Guitar Hero, do they think this is a magic trump card that will be more of a marketting ploy to help their newer version?

Reason why it doesn't happen with Guitar Hero or the upcoming Guitar Hero 4, is because Activision pays Konami to license the patents, whereas Viacom (MTV Games and Harmonix) did not.

[Grog]

Reason why it doesn't happen with Guitar Hero or the upcoming Guitar Hero 4, is because Activision pays Konami to license the patents, whereas Viacom (MTV Games and Harmonix) did not.

I did not know that, thanks!

[Kusanagi02]

Reminds me of yet another way Beatmania US was a massive failure. Put 60 songs on the game....but stick half of them on the old, obsolete 5-key interface. Yay, one difficulty level and no upgrade path for anything. That was sheer idiocy. The game has a massive learning curve as it is; why make it more complicated? Also, there was absolutely no reason to rape the scoring system.

Which is why i sold my US Beatmania game and i'm so enjoying playing IIDX Gold and Distorted.
I heard Harmonix is trying to do IIDX style of game anyway. Now that would be interesting.

[Warpticon]

Which is why i sold my US Beatmania game and i'm so enjoying playing IIDX Gold and Distorted.
I heard Harmonix is trying to do IIDX style of game anyway. Now that would be interesting.

I think they're trying to do a DJ game, but not one like IIDX. If it's good, I would welcome it with open arms. I love IIDX, but it is absolutely nothing at all like DJing. It's as much like DJing as basketball is like sex.

[DS]

Good. Fuck Rock Band.

My sentiments exactly.

[Grog]

I think they're trying to do a DJ game, but not one like IIDX. If it's good, I would welcome it with open arms. I love IIDX, but it is absolutely nothing at all like DJing. It's as much like DJing as basketball is like sex.

Or DDR to dancing /zing! :rofl:

[Warpticon]

Or DDR to dancing /zing! :rofl:

:lol: Yeah, although it is *possible* to dance to DDR.

[Grog]

:lol: Yeah, although it is *possible* to dance to DDR.

Oh I know I know just a funny pun haha

Also I heard Sep was born with a bill instead of a set of lips, any evidence of this?

[Warpticon]

Oh I know I know just a funny pun haha

Also I heard Sep was born with a bill instead of a set of lips, any evidence of this?

Ah, the rare and elusive duck-billed sourpuss.

[Superking]

My sentiments exactly.

Hey, I bought Rock Band, for a GF+DM+KR ripoff, it's pretty good, albeit dumbed down version of GF+DM, but at least a lot of the songs are good and they are master tracks. :D

But fuck Viacom, they had this coming for the Youtube shit.

[Will Gotti]

I remember when I was stationed in S. Korea Guitar Freaks by Konami came out as well as all their other music games like Beatmania and the like. After as few years I started seeing everyone else dipping their fingers into the music genre and basically not adding anything to the genre. So I can see why Konami is suing. Don't know why they chose who they chose to sue cause they should sue all of them.