2nd time around, low tier rules.

[shoultzula]

so as with the first one, I would like to see what people think of it now.

Basically, we play by these rules.

ban top 4
cyke
IM\wm
strider\doom
BH
SIM
spiral****

everyone else is playable and no ratio to make it as simple as possible. The ratio system is kinda twacked out. For instance, iceman isn't super top tier but since strider is playable, strider\iceman is ghetto strider\doom so he has to be in the same ratio to prevent that duo from exsisting etc... not fair for iceman who's probably top 30 but its in place to stop strider. So iceman takes more of hit than strider does.

SIM is gone because that bitch can just run forever. Not fair for low tiers who can't reach that height. Which is 90% of them. By leaving him in, he makes this low tier system damn near useless. Get the life advantage vs someone, then run for 90 seconds.

Tron\mando are allowed because all though the may be good assists, there are better point characters than them.

Tron, counters mando AA but sonson, charlie\guile, shoto's, psylock, cammy all beat tron so there is balanced amongst the AA's. If someone is going to whore psylock AA which is likely, baiting her out and punishing with tron once can make or break the fight.

To some extent, the characters I banned we all know what there capable of except for SIM but I already listed why he's banned. Do we really need to see doom\BH are capable of when those characters have gotten 10 years worth of play in top tier tournaments? My answer, no. Lets give the rest of the cast a shot @ high level play.

Banning the characters I mentioned leaves the characters who are very good but don't get any kind of exposure of large exposure. It also makes for the most diversity amongst the rest of the cast thats left.

comparing this simple system to a ratio system thats complex\ not fully tweaked, imo its easy to see why the ratio system is flawed from the start.

But as before, if there are any counter arguements, I'm all ears.

[Tech Romancer]

Ban Sim?

But not Ban Tron?

I'm already confused, here.

[disgruntled goa]

I think there still needs to be a ratio system or else you get ridiculous teams like Rogue/Cammy/Tron.

[eczangief]

low tier isn't even marvel w/o tron though tech.

:arazz:

[Tech Romancer]

I just don't agree. Why on earth should we ban Sim and not ban people like Commando and Tron? I can't wrap my brain around that. You pick a few and leave the rest? I still say just ban the top four and leave the rest. Picking Tron along with some other guys is as boring as Strider/Doom IMO.

[Mixup]

thats because sim is a totally different kind of character than tron or commando.

tron and mando are assists with "decent" point games

sim is a decent assist with unlimited runaway potential and a MUCH better point game overall than 90% of the cast.

sim is more like a high tier where tron and commando are mid tier characters at best.

understand?

[Tech Romancer]

Its just that he is so hard to master. You can't pick him up and just expect to have an advantage at the outset like blackheart or Cyclops. You can't push a magic button like Tron and Commando and make stuff happen. If there were more advanced Dhalism players (and they're rare) then maybe I would understand.

And the ones I have seen that are even decent with him don't run away like that. Even Kanu, one of the best Dhalism players I've seen is fairly aggressive. I think that should be taken into account. I guarantee if Dhalism were allowed, there would be few who would pick him and even fewer who could play him well.

EDIT: Basically, this is not just about Sim. This goes in line with the argument that low-tier tournaments seek to see more characters used outside of the big four. We have a severe shortage of Morrigan, Dhalism, Thanos, etc. players. Yes, I mean without Tron, BTW. So, please don't ban characters that need to be repped more like Sim. Rather, I believe low-tier is truly low tier without Tron than with it, since basically Tron will make anyone go up a tier or two, easy. And the list conveniently forgets Morrigan, who is basically godlike with Tron. Take Sim? Then Morrigan should go too. And where's Cammy? But really, I just think the big four should go and leave it at that.

[judge_rl]

Marvel is Marvel. If there is a tourney, and someone calls rules regarding a ban, I'd still play. To each his own. The game is very flexible.

[tharimrattler]

Ban Sim?

But not Ban Tron?

I'm already confused, here.

Shut up plz

[xero15]

Shut up plz

:lol:

[Tech Romancer]

Alrighty then...

Tell this marvel noob what he's missing. Explain to me where I went wrong in my logic. Instead of wasting my time and yours with Shut Up this, Shut up that, tell me what I'm so wrong on. That'll make me shut up. I want to know why Tron defines low-tier. I want to know why we can keep Morrigan/Tron, Cammy/Tron and other dangerous people. I want to know why we're banning Dhalism when people hardly play him and even less get good with him. So far, I haven't been satisfied.

[disgruntled goa]

Alrighty then...

Tell this marvel noob what he's missing. Explain to me where I went wrong in my logic. Instead of wasting my time and yours with Shut Up this, Shut up that, tell me what I'm so wrong on. That'll make me shut up. I want to know why Tron defines low-tier. I want to know why we can keep Morrigan/Tron, Cammy/Tron and other dangerous people. I want to know why we're banning Dhalism when people hardly play him and even less get good with him. So far, I haven't been satisfied.

Tron isn't as broken as you seem to think. She's an amazing assist but you just need to adjust your strategy to fight against her (eg. blindly rushing down someone with Tron assist will get you killed really quickly). On the other hand, if someone really chooses to runaway with Dhalsim, there's absolutely nothing most low tier characters can do about it and you just have to sit there and hope the Dhalsim player messes up. I play Morrigan/Cammy/Tron and other combinations of xxx/Cammy/Tron. They're good solid teams with some nasty tricks but once you learn what things to watch out for, they're very beatable. You just need to step up your game and learn how to fight Tron.

[Tech Romancer]

Okay, you got me with the "step up your game" argument; I can't argue with that. Yeah, I know she's beatable but I do think we see too much of her. But then again, like you said, if you know how to get around it then its not a problem. I just think we should see more Dhalism players. Alright, I'm done with it, I guess.

[beatsofdevil]

Shut up plz
thanks! lol

btw, no spiral ban? hmmm

[judge_rl]

When someone gets hit by Tron:
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=-nWFcQsAo50
*this is the 2nd place I've posted this link so far today on SRK...it's just that funny

When a person who knows how to watch out for Tron gets the slip on a Tron-assist masher:
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=kZho5myNUdY&feature=related
*same scenario lol

Yea, that's odd. Spiral is usually included in the first batch of banned cookies.

[beatsofdevil]

i would imagine spiral with iceman/tron or something and some of her other trap variations like jump, summonswords, sword-sword-sword, land, jump-sword-sword-sword-summon might be 'ugh'

[Tech Romancer]

I'd totally forgotten about Spiral.

[eczangief]

I'm gonna give some respect to Tech on this. Granted, I don't think Sim should be allowed in Low Tier tournament action, I still think he deserves to hear the debate from the other side in a civil manner.

He's admitting to being someone comin up in the game, so give him what he wants, not just some fluffy response to the effect of 'ur dump'.

For a bit of a response to your question-- and Goa hit it pretty right on--

Tron when coupled with random low tiers equates to some serious damage output. Look at the matchup Sabertooth vs. Chun-li-- w/o Tron, Chun is ALL over 'tooth she's got double/triple jump, air dash, wall jump-- very simply a whole bunch of ways to land a hit from multiple angles where the best Tooth can go is a very simple high, low, or an weak overhead w/o many followup options.

On the other hand, give Tooth some Tron rings and all of a sudden, his 1 hit overhead is deadly, he's got followups on hit or block. Tron brings the notion that you MUST fear this character's ability to hit you and makes random bums turn into Fierce Combatants.

If you ban tron, then basically what you establish is the need for a ratio system within the bastard characters. B/c there's no way Morri/Chun/Rogue/Cammy/Spidey/Iceman blah blah blah are in the same league as Sabertooth/Jin/Amingo/Sakura/Gambit/everybody else.

Very simply, it's in the spirit of the game to leave Tron in. Chun/Tron vs. Tooth/Tron-- all of a sudden its not lookin bad for the furry guy. But thats not to say that Iceman/Thanos/CapCom isn't givin' em a run for their money. If you're too good for Tron or it gets boring for you, have faith in your hobos bc 9/10 you will still have the advantage when it comes to Team Chemistry bc its harder than you'd think to build team thats square from both xx/Tron characters as well as Tron on point.

I just got beasted yesterday with my Tron teams against Spidey/Akuma/CC because i got too greedy/dumb with my tron calls. Very easy to do versus a good holding assist or an AAA and anybody who can block. I'll post em up later.

IMO leave the top assists Psy/Tron/CC bc A) they're all very useful and open up new avenues for the rest of the cast, B) they're all closely matched and can effectively counter/punish each other and C) they all deserve to get some more love on point.

Low Tier is IMO a dead even heat btwn:

Random Hobo/Tron/AA : standard Tron makes some bum good

Slowpoke/Projectile/Ground type Assist/AA : aka gives Hulk/Bison/Gief etc a way to close ground in a hurry and safely ie ROOP FYTAAAGH

xx/Beamer/CC : to create ghetto hail storms/safe/damaging dhcs

also, theres a lot of room w/in low tier for some gnarly assist kill based teams i.e. Battery/Thanos/AA

Lots of ways to win w/o Tron especially bc thatsss one assist thats vulnerable on screen for a long time = dead little girl in a robot suit. Plenty of team Tron slayers out there to be found.

[judge_rl]

Hey, I'm going to need you to stop making Marvel seem like it could possibly make sense, sir. Thanks :tup:

Also, as I told Tech, I don't think Sim should be banned until his run-away, drill cancel into AD plus assist has been exploited to win a low-tier tourney. mho

[Tech Romancer]

Agreed. Okay, I agree with the Tron thing; very enlightening explanation.



Lots of ways to win w/o Tron especially bc thatsss one assist thats vulnerable on screen for a long time = dead little girl in a robot suit. Plenty of team Tron slayers out there to be found.

Team Sacrilege FTW

EDIT: But, since I don't play with Tron, does that mean my teams suck with Morrigan? Am I losing untapped potential? Can I still make my Morrigan good by compensating with my skills and using my assists creatively?

[beatsofdevil]

or how about, if his runaway is the only reason to ban him, we ban 'stalling' (smash brothers)?

[judge_rl]

Oh let's not go there...Smash Bros that is. We just started to bring in the possibility that Marvel makes sense...and then we bring in Smash? *dies*

[J360]

IMO i thinks strider should be banned zoo is too good, even though i know theres some bullshit out there to fight it. Question would strider/doom be banned even i pick doom purple beam assist?

[jaded]

cutting everyone else out as in the first post, I have trouble believing any team will beat strider/xxx/tron. zoo + orbs + tron = anti everything else save top tier

strider/tron already gives top 4 major problems, and now that you remove them, it's free reign.

[eczangief]

lol j360, s/d would be banned ESPECIALLY if you pick purple people eater. IMagine trying to fight that LOL.

i think you could conceivably pick doom, war machine, cyke, sim and mids in a scenario where the gods are banned, but you get to pick literally any other team you want. Double Speed/Up wolvie/tron, pick em i dont giva fuck. Lets get dat Tron/Tron/Doom on make it happen. Also 2x Son-son and Gief/Gief/Tron are probably the scariest teams you can't pick.

Forget low tier i wanna see this LSD tier




also i'm not that serious:rofl:

[50mOrEcEnTz]

shout, try out this low low tier team =P

bison/cammy/hulk it will blow ur mind =P

[shoultzula]

thanks! lol

btw, no spiral ban? hmmm

no you're absolutely right, I forgot to add her woops :rofl:

[shoultzula]

EDIT: But, since I don't play with Tron, does that mean my teams suck with Morrigan? Am I losing untapped potential? Can I still make my Morrigan good by compensating with my skills and using my assists creatively?

No other assist in the game will open up morrigans mixup better than tron and thats just a simple fact. You can go the jwong\justinK way and run morrigan\gambit\AA combinations but who else is going to allow triple mixup relayer?

[shoultzula]

Tron opens up virtually any character game plan. Tops don't need her because of their options being so vast. However for low tier, she needs to be staple because of her damage output and blockstun time.

characters like spiderman\charlie are pretty good in terms of the entire cast but when you add tron to them, they become 2 hit kill characters. As opposed to magnus who's a one hit kill character. It allows them to compete.

What I would like to eventually see is that low tiers+tron start beating tops which is very likely with a little defense and smart play combined with proper team chemistry.

This low tier version of marvel still has all the aspects of top play. Trap, rushdown and runaway. They're all there in low tier form.

[shoultzula]

I think there still needs to be a ratio system or else you get ridiculous teams like Rogue/Cammy/Tron.

There are multiple retarded teams in the scheme I provided.

speedup wovlie\psy\tron = fucking god like best low tier team in the game hands down. Mixup should have that team named after him.

rubyheart\AA\tron
megaman\AA\tron
jugg\xxx\tron
omega red\aa\tron
cammy\xxx\tron
marrow\AA or xxx\tron
mummy\morrigan\tron
megaman\AA\tron
gambit\AA or xxx\tron

I can keep going. The point is that the cream rises to the top and with said characters banned, the top 30-40 is going to compete. So of the 11-12 characters banned, there are now close to 30 characters that are going to be able to compete @ high level low tier play. Thats pretty good for tourney diversity to make more room for teams.

Even something super ugly like colossus tron is super strong. Super armor colossus is nothing to fuck with in a low tier system.

[Augmint]

No other assist in the game will open up morrigans mixup better than tron and thats just a simple fact. You can go the jwong\justinK way and run morrigan\gambit\AA combinations but who else is going to allow triple mixup relayer?

characters like spiderman\charlie are pretty good in terms of the entire cast but when you add tron to them, they become 2 hit kill characters. As opposed to magnus who's a one hit kill character. It allows them to compete.

What I would like to eventually see is that low tiers+tron start beating tops which is very likely with a little defense and smart play combined with proper team chemistry.



Personally - IMO - as a duo cyke with morrigan is way better balanced than morrigan/Tron - emphasis on duo - i.e cyclops ending up on point.. Morrigan/storm/Tron would be an exception.

I don't see the last part happening (competing vs top tier teams) - alot of low/mid tier characters without good mobility are still gonna lose cos of angles.
e.g charlie/Tron isn't gonna get near spiral drones or BH j Hp and drones - and alot of xx/TRon teams are still gonna find it hard to beat fly back sent or cable/cyke or storm/cyke.

I'm not completely adverse to using Tron - I run Omega/storm/tron and Ruby/Doom/Tron.
But you can still lose alot of matches having Tron where even though your damage output is huge - you'll still lose to better zoning.

[Augmint]

Agreed. Okay, I agree with the Tron thing; very enlightening explanation.



Team Sacrilege FTW

EDIT: But, since I don't play with Tron, does that mean my teams suck with Morrigan? Am I losing untapped potential? Can I still make my Morrigan good by compensating with my skills and using my assists creatively?

You basically want anyone who can help you link Darkness illusion and then think about how that assist will do on point.
Cyclops is a way better choice due to him building meter way better than Akuma and he does much better vs sent.

Also Ruby combines better with other characters than morrigan.

Also quick note on Tron - alot of low/mid tier assists have priority over her rings.

[shoultzula]

I don't see the last part happening (competing vs top tier teams) - alot of low/mid tier characters without good mobility are still gonna lose cos of angles.
e.g charlie/Tron isn't gonna get near spiral drones or BH j Hp and drones - and alot of xx/TRon teams are still gonna find it hard to beat fly back sent or cable/cyke or storm/cyke.

I'm not completely adverse to using Tron - I run Omega/storm/tron and Ruby/Doom/Tron.
But you can still lose alot of matches having Tron where even though your damage output is huge - you'll still lose to better zoning.

I agree but there are other low tier characters who will be able to compete. Cammy, speed up wolvy, mummy, morrigan, marrow etc... maybe not charlie but the TOP of the low will more than likely be able to hang to some extent

But yea, low tiers will lose to zone primarily. Run away storm and trap characters will eat up low tier :shake:

good point

[disgruntled goa]

What I would like to eventually see is that low tiers+tron start beating tops which is very likely with a little defense and smart play combined with proper team chemistry.



I play Rogue/Cammy/Tron and Storm/Cammy/Tron against top tiers all the time and I usually do pretty well. Cammy/Tron can handle pretty much any top tier characters except for runaway Storm and Spiral. Cammy/Tron does surprisingly well against Sentinel. Cammy's biggest weakness IMO is the randomness of KBA. I lose so many matches because KBA randomly drops Cable or Sentinel and then I get AHVBed or HSFed to death when I would have won otherwise.

[RisunoMeijin]

Despite what everyone is saying, i would prolly play chun/psy....there is proof of non tron teams right off the bat. I guess I could play chun/psy/tron like mixup said...more likely

Marrow/Chun/Tron

and

Chun/Cammy/Psy...give cammy chuns overhead assist >.<...or some random shit like that.

[Magnetro]

I've yet to see any matches of you two (shoult/mixup) playing low tiers...

[lovepig78]

why is cyke banned???

and youd see a lot of rogue/doom/tron

[beatsofdevil]

doom is banned correct?

and yeah, I don't think cyke should be banned.

I like morrigan/cyke/tron

but I'd prob play anak. teams, chun/psy....hmm cammy/gambit/thanos or some shit

[Tech Romancer]

why is cyke banned???

and youd see a lot of rogue/doom/tron

A lot of rogue, doom, tron? I know if Doom were allowed he would probably be pretty popular, and definitely Tron would as well. I didn't know Rogue was so popular in low-tier tourneys.

Sorta unrelated, but I found this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts3Wpc-qEy0&sdig=1

In case, anyone wants to watch.

No other assist in the game will open up morrigans mixup better than tron and thats just a simple fact. You can go the jwong\justinK way and run morrigan\gambit\AA combinations but who else is going to allow triple mixup relayer?

True, but Gouki EXP and Ruby AAA provide many possibilities - and remove many limitations - that Tron does/does not provide. I'm going to prove to you and SRK that I can play a better (not necessarily more damaging) Morrigan without Tron. My capture device is on its way; according to Amazon will arrive around the 27th of this month. Yes, Morrigan is beastly with Tron, but as Justin proved you certainly don't need her to play a superior Morrigan.

[eczangief]

its all about preference and the level of your basic skills. Your blocking/awareness/yomi presence has to be godlike to be able to swing a low tier team to victory, bottom line. Don't worry if you don't pick Tron, who cares? Don't worry about 'proving' anything bc ppl are just gonna say "i'd block that" or "i'd counter that with xx" or "you're playing scrubby opponents" bc its all gonna be in theory. Its really a losing battle, just bring your teams and beast with em. All you can do.

Spend some time and learn the gods, bc to me its seems that maybe you havent ventured into them yet. When you spend some time with magneto and then switch to morrigan/tron it is absolutely mind-blowing how you can apply the skills you've honed into 10x as much damage and reset potential.

Low tier doesn't get practical infinites (for the most part) so its only righteous that you get 1~2 touch kill via Tron.

I wouldn't mind playing low tier with Sim/Cyke allowed bc while they are low-mid in terms of skills, they still don't get THAT much love. If Sim runs away just get 20-30 ppl shouting "Don't be a pussy". As long as money isn't on the line that could work.

Technically couldn't ppl be cheap with runaway Dark Sakura too?

[judge_rl]

I've yet to see any matches of you two (shoult/mixup) playing low tiers...

I feel you. Though I understand not everyone has the tools to record at their own cribs or things don't go right when recording is planned on taking place. I would like to post more footage myself of stuff that I'm referring to. I planned on linking some footage of UnknownEnemyZero (Clockwork) vs myself (Akuma Teams) in our ft10 yesterday, but he missed out on grabbing his camera. :/ It would help a TON as far as sharing ideas and such with others, so I'm on the same boat as Tech right now. Expect newer footage from me within the next 2mnths as I will be getting my own camcorder and traveling the tourney scene more. I posted some footage of me in play with a few teams on Youtube during my inexperienced Marvel days using my gfs camera (she moved to Fl...and I may soon as well :/ ), so I would really like to post some recent footage.

On another note, It would be cool to see some Shoult vs Mix-up. Rep that Fl homies!!! I'm not looking for GDLK, b/c Marvel does not have the GDLK feel since it's been so explored (which is a lie, but I don't want there to be any pressure), but I do know you guys have some mean tricks up your sleeves...and Mix-up's execution is no game. I've really picked up my pad stuff, but it still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth at the end of the day when I think about getting my own stick (is that even possible?!? bitter taste?!? ftw?!? more like tired fingers lol).

EDIT: For the record, one of my matches yesterday ended up being UEZ's lone Sentinel vs my Ken (I don't think it was a lone Ken...). Sent was playing run-away-punish so I went into battery mode. I had nothing to lose, so there was no need to chase him. I began to sj. hp in different patterns while Sent flew full-screen away. Ken scores the win in the air by trading his sj.hp w/ Sent's RP. You have no idea how hype that moment was. sigh

[eczangief]

^straight up i'm lookin' for dat GDLK flow. 'n i know you're playin ROOP fightaa now. no excuses

i'll look a give horse straight in the mouth :smokin::smokin::smokin::china:

[Tech Romancer]

Technically couldn't ppl be cheap with runaway Dark Sakura too?

Go on....

[eczangief]

her teleport is instant recovery iirc

[djnocturnal]

Finally making my first post in this topic.

Definitely believe there should be ratios. It might be confusing at first but it will be fine as we go on. Without ratios, teams with 3 top tier assists will dominate.

Banning on
Top 4
Cyclops
Iron Man
War Machine
Blackheart
Spiral
Dhalsim

Choosing not to ban Doom or Strider because both should be Ratio 2. One without the other is alot easier to fight against as opposed to both on the same team.

Ratio 2 is probably all the top assists and some other people which I'll think about in my posts later on

[judge_rl]

Yep. Good point. I'm curious though, so a person could just infinitely do that Burnt Sakura's version of Asura Warp and be virtually invincible to all attacks? I would assume she would still be vulnerable to things that are nonphysical (i.e., don't do chip to Iceman). There has to be at least a small window of vulnerability if not then, right? During the input? I've only had to fight against such a tactic once and it was versus EricV. I think he did it like 3-4x in a row and just basically passed through everything seamlessly. I didn't really get the time to toy with hitting him out of it, as 1) I was getting annoyed, and 2) he only picked her once. Just for the record, I picked Dhalsim after that match...he got me with MSP. :/

[Magnetro]

I'm just saying 'cause I gave them a capture card (cheap 10 dollar one but still) and I thought they'd record some matches by now.

[Mixup]

he made 2 combovideos already

making another one now:arazz:

[Mixup]

her teleport is instant recovery iirc

this is shoultzula

Thats a very good point but here's the difference between sak and sim. SIM can fuck up his air teleport and still judge what sides he's on while maintaining a height thats still unapproachable.

With sakura if your character is fast enough which doesn't need to be that fast, you can crossup sakura as she recovers making her quickly react on that teleport input not to mention she needs 3 bars to hor that out.

[eczangief]

^^ makes sense

never had to fight that but it came to mind

[shoultzula]

Its still something that should be considered though. I'm not sure what I think of it really. It does take 3 bars for sak to get that advantage and w\o that bar, she's not super dangerous on point and her priority isn't extreme from what I remember about her.

If she's on point, teleporting all day is just cheesy with tron not to mention that teleport is an AA w\in itself.

hmmm.......

the way I see it right now, I say let her in and see if she fights for the top spot but I'm seriously doubting that.

[shoultzula]

Yep. Good point. I'm curious though, so a person could just infinitely do that Burnt Sakura's version of Asura Warp and be virtually invincible to all attacks? I

iirc, its 0 frame startup and 0 frame recovery. She can teleport in and out of AHVB.

[eczangief]

So I picked Double Gief/Tron today, and i think that team should be considered for entry... :wgrin:

double 2-sided hitboxes kinda top-tier

and lets squeak some extra grab range with FABxxFAB

you grab high, i'll grab low = win.


at least i thought he had a twin :looney:


edit: lil diversion so sak can stay?

[shoultzula]

can't really say but there are pro's and cons to it. She'll be super good run away if you had th timing strictly down. I just realized that you probably can teleport backwards over and over so there won't be a mixup you can use to trick her. Also, that mixup where you crossup the opponent's input doesn't matter because they'll just teleport the other way duh? Maybe twitch guard might lock her into place for 1 frame if you time an early tron vs her who knows.

You'll never hit her from an above angle because she can just teleport any position attempt @ all. Then she probably could fake teleport shit. She'll be able to win positioning all day.

Maybe something like teleport away, teleport onto point, normals+tron?
or teleport away, teleport onto point, point tries to counter her sak with assist, sak does short teleport instantly and is out of range of the helper and can now punish with tron.

that right there will loop over and over and it would be pretty hard to stop if the teleport does work like that. Thats something top tiers would have a hard time with easily because you just can't hit her.

I'm gonna go practice this shit haha

[judge_rl]

Hilarious. Wasn't there mention some time ago, that a lot of Japanese players revealed their secret weapon for EVO to be Sakura? How did that go? It is safe to assume that it didn't go too well. =)

It makes me laugh to think about Burnt Sakura doing that, but it soon pisses me off that they didn't give it BACK to Akuma. :/

[Tech Romancer]

What I can't understand is why they would even give that sort of thing to Sakura and not Gouki. Its not like Sunburnt Sakura takes more damage when she transforms or something.

I guess we Gouki players just have to be very prudent and careful with our teleports.

[eczangief]

my guess is somebody woke up drunk next to some bimbo at a karaoke stall at about 11:00 am and decided sakura didn't really need playtesting

[judge_rl]

Ah ok. Just wondering. :tup:

[shoultzula]

Hilarious. Wasn't there mention some time ago, that a lot of Japanese players revealed their secret weapon for EVO to be Sakura? How did that go? It is safe to assume that it didn't go too well. =)

It makes me laugh to think about Burnt Sakura doing that, but it soon pisses me off that they didn't give it BACK to Akuma. :/

yea iirc, there was an early japan tier listing where they had sak way up on the ladder. wasn't it like top 10 or something for the very reason of her teleport but there are problems with that.

1. You'll need to find a team that will allow 3 bars worth of meter all for sak. Said team would need to be able to fight tops and have very few counter matchups going against it.
2. Since its 0 recovery 0 startup, how many times is it possible to jframe that over and over? thats very hard to do consistently imo. You could very well end up doing that input 50-100 times a round and 1 fuck up could be the end of her. Thats a good bit of jframe inputs JUST to make her effective.

I may be wrong here but saks teleport joins a small list of wake up options in marvel. It would be really hard to mixup her up after KD's.

but this is all just theory marvel. I do believe that a master sak player would be just be retarded to witness though.

[eczangief]

i was diggin through my mini archive of low tier jap stuff ive found here and there, and there's quite a few with sak teams.

nothing of that potential retard caliber though. i'll post up if i can find a youtube link otherwise i'll link to the site i got em.

but goddamn Sintaisokutei vid series is wtf retarded-- godlike hayatos, jins, colossi (colossuses?), shit-ton of thanos, chunners, son-son is/was retarded over there, and a psylocke/hulk/thanos opening move that made me change my pants after.

they like the pirate too

[judge_rl]

Sintaisokutei series? Are you referring to the vids you linked to in the wolvy threads? Where the marvel matches have comic scenes alongside them?

Hope your pants can be washed...Hulk/Thanos puts a hurting on ppl like that.

[eczangief]

ya thats what i'm on about.

that one is the final installment so there's 15 others and theyre all beast/comedic gold.

speed up wolvie owned my joystick hard so im just peepin vids
now

edit:

boop

http://otg.client.jp/movie.html

and low-fi utube:

http://www.youtube.com/user/roshikacyon


well worth it to random DL any of that stuff


vol 13 is the first actual tron use ive seen from jp low tier, and damn if i didn't spot one of shoultz' teams. didnt exactly do it justice though.

[50mOrEcEnTz]

As of late, I have been playing this team exlusively when I devoid from the top tier. I will try to explain [IF NOBODY MINDS] why I think its a GrrrEaT example of a team that is still around the top of low tier teams yet doesn't have tron (I got too many ppl using tron as a cop out excuse for losing:rofl:)


Bison/Cammy/Hulk

Assists-bison is on the explosion ball, cammy is of course aa, hulk is on dash

The basic concept of the team is 3 meter one hit KO like...lets say combofiend without the benefit of a powerful super after bison, the damage comes from the 2 or 3 hit gamma crush. Bison's magic series in the air to air psycho crusher dhc late to cammy's vertical super dhc to hulks gamma crush gets you the 2 or 3 hit version of it.

Outside of the "i can kill you if i have 3 meters" factor...which isn't all that scary once you play marvel enough, it loses its "scariness," this team seems to function VERY good.


[Warning: Rang about Bison on point]
Bison on point is not a real speed up wolvie/tron, morrigan/tron...aka mix you up and freaking kill you character.

But one would be surprised how much he benefits off of cammy's aa JUST BECAUSE OF THE AIRTIME/FREETIME it gives him. Bison can setup a fp explosion, with a lp fireball to keep them grounded full screen almost everytime. And if they are playing somebody that can airdash, you can still react because alreadi know where the gap is they have to attack you. Over your head. Most of the time if they try something like that though they spend MORE time in the air trying to position themselves past all the crap you have going on and that lets you at least get out a lp explosion ball most of the time, so that when you block their first air attack, pushblock them into it, or around it making them block again.

Bison uses hulk-dash type mainly as an assist punish tool. For full screen punishing I normally just call out hulk and throw a fp fireball, which will hit AFTER hulk pops them into the air. You of course have more damaging options BUT not many more that are much safer. And you can always do something that looks and IS REAL UNSAFE and tele and see how they react to that...but the safe route is suggested. I also like the call hulk, fp fireball route because he can get out a lp explosion ball fairly quickly after that to put you back in your type of game building the meter to kill if you ever do get teh god forsaken hit off.

Bison gets c.lk+hulk, c.lk patterns and hulk creates enough blockstun to get an explosion off most of the time which helps because most of the time somebody blocks c.lk+assist...another assist comes flying out :rofl: this at least causes some damage and gets them back up off the screen. If your c.lk+hulk, c.lk hits you ALWAYS have time to dash in and jump up for your death combo. Another side note is that bison can also s.rh, call hulk on second hit and go into flight, and you can do what you normally do, super, or you can time a scissor kick knockdown, or fly over and connect a f.lp, throw. I wish I could find more uses out for that but as of now thats all I can think of.

Cammy on point also gets the c.lk+hulk, c.lk option and you alreadi know she gets dash in air combo super. if the opponent doesn't have an aa that makes you respect them you can start doing hcb+k cross up's/mind games. hcb+k, p shortens the time she is vunerable, and hcb+k, k keeps you on the front side of opponent. cammy also gets a safe tag out to hulk with killer bee attack to hulk's kick super (unless hulk's kick super is just unsafe:confused:).

Hulk is where my team gets ghetto and shabby. I have been able to get a 3 hit overhead with hulk/cammy...but its ghetto, you have to call cammy out SLIGHTLY before you do j.lk, then you can either do j.fp for the 3 hit combo, or go for another delayed j.lk and go for an airthrow, j.lk, the charge dash move, to pull the carpet up super. Whenever I see c.lk hit, and get charge move to hit, I do the pull the ground up super because it leads the opponent to the corner...which is where hulk/bison can actually do a little chip damage.

Hulk can keep the opponent pinned down if he uses bison then charge move xx kick super (excluding somebody guard canceling super g style, im convinced you can get out of all crap in marvel with gc'ing). Once the opponent has seen you do that once or twice, its not bad (I guess, im not a awesome hulk player :rofl: im workin on him) to just chip with j.lk's while bison's explosion ball is heading towards them. They can get out of course but its not as easy as it seems sometimes. Hulk can tag back out to Bison with pullll the carpet up super dhc'd to the explosion ball super...its not ahvb safe but its pretty damn safe.

ALL of the characters have DAMAGING combos from airgrabs. Bison can throw into hulk then air super (for some reason he glides up after a quick air throw, perfect for hulk's dash assist)...and that leads to death with meter. Cammy gets throw into hulk dash in air combo dhc'd to hulk takes away too much life. And everybody knows if you dont roll out of hulk's airthrow its a game changer.

Also, these characters dont have bad alpha counters. Cammy's being the worst imo. Hulk's is VERY safe when he has enough meter to cancel into a super. Bison's explosion ball has some potential as an alpha counter...the other night I alpha countere'd in with bison, and he immediately got hit and I rolled, but to my surprise, the explosion ball was coming RIGHT WHERE I ROLLED. I thought that shit was super cool...and of course, if you can spot a tri jump, cammy's alpha counter will do the job.

[RisunoMeijin]

^truth, that team is scary. just wanted to add that im 70% sure you can alpha counter into super cancel with cammy.

Problem with sak is even after you get the timing down, try teleporting in and out of AHVB all day. >.>

In a game where every 7th frame gets dropped iirc.

In a game where one mistake can cost your team.

Do you really want to rely on reversal dragon punches for like 50 seconds of clock time?

Not that good imo even compared to non dark sakura strats :rofl:

But its still a thought.

[beatsofdevil]

you would just teleport behind or under cable...

and if it's instant recovery, you can still block just incase right?

[RisunoMeijin]

you would just teleport behind or under cable...

and if it's instant recovery, you can still block just incase right?

Well, cable wouldnt even really be the issue, assuming top 4 are banned. I just dont think that you would be able to avoid chip from say...iron man, doom, iceman, many others...without risking the chance for missing a reversal teleport and eating the actual damage. The same goes for any kind of a meaty high/low or crossup attempt where you are reappearing, both of which would be safe, assuming you were either going for a reversal teleport, or attempting to block. Counter hits with sakura on an airborne opponent while coming out of a teleport just dont seem like that great of an option.

So basically, im just saying, you wouldnt be able to avoid safe mix-up attempts, or even safe chip attemps that would be risky to teleport out of...like a meaty doom call...or a meaty tron call + high low >.<

[beatsofdevil]

how does teleport>insta recovery...assist (like doom maybe? or something really good like jin explosion or other invincible AAAs)+teleport sound?