The Saving Attack thread(high level)

[Rex0r]

I tried making this thread about a month ago just to talk about SOMETHING. This was during the non-stop flame wars and very little actual gameplay talk. Now that the game is out however i think we should compile a list of all the SA's. Meaning there speed/reach/priority/usefull ness/ability so set up. Also different combos which can be done off of them. Obviosly i mean character specifc, eg:

Character Name
Speed of move
Usefull ness
Then in a paragraph or two below to describe exactly what the attack looks like, when its best used, and most importantly the combos that exist off it.


PS- on the off chance this thread exists(iv seen similar ones but not on this level if it getssupported well by team japan) I appologize but this is the second time iv made it:arazz:



PLEASE japan sf4 help me make this thread great, its the only thing im still curious about in SF4. :lovin:

[Humbag]

I know that giefs FA/SA seems to have great range as does Sims. Not sure of speed compared to others.

[CFAY]

vega/claw got a nice saving attack also that can be abused.

[Rex0r]

Also edited to first post. SA dash combos, blcked sa xx dash tricks, AS dash backwards to escape, anything goes in this disscusion. LETS GET HYPE ABOUT THE ONE THING THAT MAKES THE GAME STAND APART!

[Rex0r]

I know that giefs FA/SA seems to have great range as does Sims. Not sure of speed compared to others.


If we get enough info maybe we can rank interms of speed/priority SA. Almost like a SA tier list. I can just feel theres gonna be alot of juice:amazed:

[Humbag]

Quick Ryu SA features:

blah->dp->FADC->Ultra works

blah->dp->EX spin kicks works

[Chachi]

*waits for Dudley rose SA*

[erikstanton]

*waits for Dudley rose SA*
yes. sf IV: double impact
i am waiting too 8)

[Maximilian Masters]

Played about 50 matches at the SF event in LA, so I can confirm a some FA tricks with Ken. This one looks the best...

MP Shoryuken->FADC (first of the 2 hits from the srk)->Shoryuken any strength

Lots of "oooohs" and "aaahs" from the crowd around. At comic con i'm gonna work on trying an Ultra after the FA dash cancel, just as the opponent lands...

[Gutter Trash]

*waits for Dudley rose SA*

<=====

[Azrael]

Saving Attack (renamed Focus Attack for NA - I play in Japan so I'm calling it SA) is the new system implemented for SFIV. While its still new and players are still getting a grasp of its potential, even now a lot of good and innovative uses have been seen for it.

Basics

To perform a SA, hold down MP+MK. Your character will go into a "charging" animation, in which they wind up in preparation to strike. When you release the two buttons, the character will perform the actual strike. There are three levels of SA, which depend on how long you hold down the attack buttons. The first level simply hits the opponent; its a regular hit. The second level will cause your opponent to go into crumple stun; they will fall to their knees, and then hit the ground. At the first part of the crumple stun, the opponent will be in a grounded state. The third level is unblockable; you can distinguish it in that the character performing it will have the signature brush strokes effects of SFIV. The opponent will go flying across the screen if hit by the unblockable level 3 SA.

While your character is in their "wind up" state, they can absorb one hit. Only one. Your character will lose the appropriate damage, but the damage will be refilled so long as the character doesn't take additional damage while the energy is refilling. The SA damage will contribute to Revenge Meter, even if the actual damage itself is regenerated. If you SA two attacks in a row, you can still regain the energy lost from both attacks, so long as you are not hit by an actual attack before the regeneration can complete.

Example:
Ryu is throwing fireballs from full screen at Sagat. Sagat SA absorbs two fireballs, then decides to jump over the rest. Sagat will regain the health lost from both fireballs.

Strategy: Building Revenge Meter
Against characters/players who often use SA vulnerable attacks, especially fireballers, you can use the regeneration properties of the SA charge to build Revenge Meter without actually losing health. In this way, its possible to have full Revenge Meter but still have 100% health. Also, it would be possible to have access to two Ultras per round.

If your character has absorbed one hit during SA charge, and they are hit by another attack before the strike can complete, it will break the SA animation, and the character will take the damage from both attacks. SA charge is also vulnerable to all throws, including command throws. SA charge can also be broken by certain one-hit special moves. By nature, SA charge will be broken by all EX moves.

Example:
Ken enters SA charge, Ryu does C.MK, Hadouken. Ken's SA charge will absorb the C.MK, but the Hadouken will break Ken's SA charge and Ken will take full damage from the C.MK, Hadouken.

Guile enters SA charge, Chun-Li is throwing C.jabs. The first jab will be absorbed but the second jab will break the charge.

Dhalsim enters SA charge, Blanka throws him out of it before the strike comes out.

Zangief enters SA charge, Honda does a regular headbutt and the SA charge is broken.

Special One-Hit Moves (non-EX) that break SA Charge (not a comprehensive list): Honda's Headbutt, Blanka Ball, Boxer Balrog's Dash Punches, Sagat's Tiger Knee, Bison's Psycho Crusher, C.Viper's Thunder Knuckle, El Fuerte's Charge Body Press

Some Special One-Hit Moves that DON'T break SA Charge: Ryu's Shoryuken, Chun-Li's Hasan Shu, any character's fireball.

The SA strike itself is actually vulnerable, all 3 levels.

Example:
Ken knocks Ryu down, and as Ryu is down Ken begins to charge Level 3 SA. If Ryu does wake-up Shoryuken while the move is still charging, the SA charge will absorb it. However, if Ryu times it so that the Shoryuken hits as the SA it coming out, it will beat the actual SA attack.

Dash Cancelling

The SA animation may be cancelled into either a forward or backwards dash. While the actual strike itself is not cancellable, the charge leading up to the strike, as well as the recovery frames afterwards, may be cancelled into a dash. To perform a dash cancel before the strike, input F,F or B,B while still holding down MP+MK.

Strategy: Moving Parry
You can use SADC to "blow" through certain one-hit moves. For example, Ryu vs Chun-Li - in close range, Chun tries to sweep Ryu. Ryu performs a SADC to absorb the sweep, then dashes forward. Now Ryu is in close while Chun is still in recovery from her sweep.

Strategy: Fake-Out
You can use SADC to trick your opponent into thinking you are going to do a SA. Example: Ryu vs Ken - Ken has knocked Ryu down, and he begins his SA charge. As Ryu wakes up, he does Shoryuken/EX Shoryuken to knock Ken out of the Level 3 SA attempt. However, Ken SADC's backwards and Ryu whiffs the wakeup DP.

Strategy: Cancel
You started an SA in anticipation that your opponent was going to throw out an attack. They didn't. You can SADC backwards to make sure you're not punished for the SA attempt, or even SADC forward to apply the pressure.

To perform a SADC after the strike, input the dash command as the strike takes place. The game animation will pause briefly as the strike is carried out, but after the strike your character will automatically go into dash animation. For many characters, an SADC forward will be their only way to perform a combo after successfully hitting a SA.

Strategy: Charge Partitioning
While the SADC system seems to favor non-charge characters, charge characters can take advantage of it as well through charge partitioning. The idea is to start charging for the special/super/Ultra as the SA charge is taking place, perform the SA, SADC, then finish the charge and do your move. For example, with Guile: SA (hit - crumple stun), SADC Forward, C.MP, Flash Kick. Personally, I haven't got the hang of charge partitioning yet, so I can't give you more detailed information. I also do not know if charge partitioning will work with the "Moving Parry" type of SADC.

Saving Attack Cancel

At the cost of half of your super meter, normal or special moves with grounded properties may be cancelled into a Saving Attack. Its important to note that if a Saving Attack cancel is performed, the character will go into Saving Attack animation - if you wish to do something else, you will have to SADC out of the SA animation.

The game seems to allow for a degree of leniency regarding "grounded" moves - Guile's Flash Kick may be Saving Attack Cancelled.

Strategy: Combos
By cancelling the recovery/momentum of certain moves, new combos may become possible. For example, as was seen in the E3 trailer, Chun-Li performs a combo that is Jumping Forward HP (2 hits), C.FP (1 hit), FP Kikousho xx Saving Attack Cancel xx SADC Forward, B+MK, MK, D,U+K.

Juggle combos also become possible, such as Ryu Shoryuken xx Saving Attack Cancel xx SADC, Ultra.

Strategy: Bail-Out
Saving Attack Cancel may be used to make certain risky situations more safe. Example, Ken has knocked Ryu down, and is hovering over him. Ryu can wake-up Shoryuken, and then Saving Attack Cancel xx SADC backwards. Even if the Shoryuken is blocked, Ryu dashes backwards and out of harm.

Strategy: Feint
The Saving Attack Cancel can also be used to trick your opponent into thinking you've missed a special move. Example - Sagat jumps in on Ken, does Jump FK, C.MP, FP Tiger Uppercut xx Saving Attack Cancel xx SADC Forward, Throw. As the player is thinking that Sagat has missed the Tiger Uppercut, Sagat is dashing forward and ready to throw.

Players are still putting this new system to the test, but so far its shown a lot of potential. I will try to update this thread with more info if/when it becomes available.

[The Mullah]

brilliantly i failed to use focus attacks almost entirely when i played sf4 so i have a question Az or anyone else.

If i FA, release, they block can i then dash cancel during the recovery frames of the FA and if so does it cost meter? You don't mention a cost above.

[Kunai]

brilliantly i failed to use focus attacks almost entirely when i played sf4 so i have a question Az or anyone else.

If i FA, release, they block can i then dash cancel during the recovery frames of the FA and if so does it cost meter? You don't mention a cost above.

That is correct. You can cancel the rest of the animation for the FA on block or on hit by dashing forward or backward, and it doesn't take any meter to do so.

[The Mullah]

Thx buddy, if the opponent mashes jabs does the block stun end before the dash allowing them to hit you as you dash forwards?

[Time Mage]

Basics

To perform a SA, hold down MP+MK. Your character will go into a "charging" animation, in which they wind up in preparation to strike. When you release the two buttons, the character will perform the actual strike. There are three levels of SA, which depend on how long you hold down the attack buttons. The first level simply hits the opponent; its a regular hit. The second level will cause your opponent to go into crumple stun; they will fall to their knees, and then hit the ground. At the first part of the crumple stun, the opponent will be in a grounded state. The third level is unblockable; you can distinguish it in that the character performing it will have the signature brush strokes effects of SFIV. The opponent will go flying across the screen if hit by the unblockable level 3 SA.
Excuse me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this info correspond to one of the earlier loketests? I mean, AFAIK, level 1 SA crumples on counter hit, and level 3 won't send the opponent flying. Obviously you're the one that's playing the game, not me, but maybe you copy/pasted this from an earlier report? I think you did one like this one in one of the first loketest threads.

[Captain Ryu]

Question.

If I use an SA with a pixel of life left will the first hit kill me?

[igniz13]

I thought the SA could be used on more than one move; i'm sure i've seen it used (and used it) to absorb more than one hit.

[PENETRATOR]

I doubt a level 3 SA/FA would send an opponent flying unless he was airborne, it would defeat the point of the attack if it did.

[Kunai]

Thx buddy, if the opponent mashes jabs does the block stun end before the dash allowing them to hit you as you dash forwards?

That's a good question. I believe you still can, but I will have to confirm later. It was a tactic of mine in earlier loketests. It seems different when you cancel a normal/special to FA to dash cancel... the dash seems to come out quicker, but you may be able to get some hits in if you mash upon very quick reaction. It happened to me when I tried to fool someone, and at the same time, I was getting owned by Sagat doing FADCs on me, even upon anticipation at times.

Question.

If I use an SA with a pixel of life left will the first hit kill me?

Yes. You need to have enough life to absorb the hit in the first place, and it varies depending on what move hits you.

I thought the SA could be used on more than one move; i'm sure i've seen it used (and used it) to absorb more than one hit.

No, I believe it is impossible to absorb more than one hit with a single Focus Attack. I have never seen it before throughout the many times I have played and watched this game.

[YellowS4]

I'm just going to call them SA1-3 just to denote levels when it comes to combos.

[noodleman]

just like 3rd strike :P

[Jay Wang]

AZ,

thanks for taking the time to write that up. very informative and complete.

now i can sit at my desk and practice drumming away SADC's all day!

:P

[Captain0wnzor]

Level 3 saving attacks (and all other saving attacks for that matter) only send the opponet flying if you hit them while they are in the air.

[defcon]

Good shit Azrael, your write-up was very informative.

But to clarify: how is meter consumed in the use of SAs? Is meter only consumed at lvl 2 SA or above? If so, does lvl 3 SA consume more meter?

Also, the dash cancel window for SAs may differ according to level, and be impact dependant. I was messing around against the computer last night for a little while with SADC and could not SADC when far away and whiffing the SA itself. However, on hit or on block, SADC became possible. As for the window of dash cancel input, from my limited experience so far, it seems like you have to commit to the dash cancel before you hit the SA. So hit confirming SA and then DCing is not possible (either that or my execution is worse than I thought). I will play around with the "wind-up" frame window for dash cancelling though.

loved the SADC tactics section.

[Kunai]

Good shit Azrael, your write-up was very informative.

But to clarify: how is meter consumed in the use of SAs? Is meter only consumed at lvl 2 SA or above? If so, does lvl 3 SA consume more meter?

Also, the dash cancel window for SAs may differ according to level, and be impact dependant. I was messing around against the computer last night for a little while with SADC and could not SADC when far away and whiffing the SA itself. However, on hit or on block, SADC became possible. As for the window of dash cancel input, from my limited experience so far, it seems like you have to commit to the dash cancel before you hit the SA. So hit confirming SA and then DCing is not possible (either that or my execution is worse than I thought). I will play around with the "wind-up" frame window for dash cancelling though.

loved the SADC tactics section.

Charging up your SA does not affect the super meter at all. The only time SA draws super meter of any sort is when you cancel a normal or special move into Saving Attack, and that takes 2 EX stocks from your Super Meter. You will flash yellow when this happens.

As for your explanation afterwards, it's a bit confusing. When you charge up an SA, you can input a forward or backward dash at any time to cancel the SA as long as you don't let go of MP+MK. However, when you do let go, you have committed and you cannot cancel the SA. However, when the SA physically hits the opponent, whether it is blocked or not, you can dash forward or backward to cancel the rest of the SA animation the INSTANT it has hit.

[CFAY]

something i firgured out about ryu and saving attack, he can actually juggle you from a level 2 with a normal special move but not level 1. if level 1 he has to juggle with an ex attack.

[defcon]

just want to add that it seems like if you get hit during your health recovery after safely SA "parrying" an attack, you lose all the greyed out health you were supposed to recover.

also: for the life of me i can't SADC without the SA actually making contact. i understand that i have to dash during the charge up process, but i've tried everything from SA~ff_bb (mashing dash in the first couple of frames) to SA... ....ff_bb. all no goes. any advices?

[NotGood]

Hold Mp+MK while your dashing, then release the buttons after your dash finishes.

[SiMan]

I understand you can dash cancel the buildup of the SA by dashing whilst holding MP+MK, but does dash cancelling after the SA strike itself hits require you to still be holding MP+MK? Cause if it does, wouldn't you only be able to do it after charging to SA lvl3?

[huge balls]

if you have chun & Start charging the SA while holding back. Can I dash cancel back then keep holding back and keep my back charge so I can ultra or super after the back dash cancel? This is basically a charge partioning question.