Ken Thread

[Cynistar]

i'm gonna try to compile this info from this thread into this op. i'd appreciate it if you guys could help me out. here it goes:

Similar to 3s:
-Crossups: EX Air Tatsumaki and j.mk
-Target combo:strong->fierce
*strong->fierce whiffs on crouching characters
*whiffed fierce has alot of recovery so try to cancel it into a fireball
*generally better to start off a combo with cr.short/cr.jab than with the target combo

New:
-EX hado does not knockdown (though it does have quicker recovery)
-F+mk comes out quicker, has less recovery, can combo into cr.mk, and is used for kara-throw (about chun reach in 3s)
-B+mk is only 1-hit

Miscellaneous:
-Use mp.shoryu for anti-airs. jab and fierce shoryus will trade alot or get cleanly beaten

Combos
Saving Attack Combos:
- strong->fierce xx hp.shoryu xx SADC->Ultra
*must cancel the 2nd hit of hp.shoryu into SADC

- (in corner) cr.mp xx EX hado xx SA lvl2 xx dash cancel xx Ultra
*must be lvl 2 SA for the character to get stunned and register as a combo

Non-Saving Attack Combos
- cr.short xx cr.jab xx cr.mk xx hp. shoryu
-cr.jab xx cr.jab xx cr. jab xx cr.mk xx EX hado

[time_attack]

see 3S Ken thread.

[Tigerboi]

^ no. He game looks alot different now.

He still has mp-> hp, though. I loled.

[JoeMasters]

Ken has these from 3rd Strike:

strong -> fierce target combo.

air ex tatsumaki cross-up -> mk

New things:

EX hado doesn't knock down.

super can juggle with ultra? ( not confirmed )

couple of new kicks :/

Focus Attack combos/Dash cancel combos have many possibilities

All info gathered from Videos and Loketest Threads.

I still dont know a lot about my main at this point :[

So any info from the peeps who are playing the game would be greatly appreciated.

[Wasted]

I noticed EX Hadou recovers relatively faster than 3s, though. Is there any real obvious use for it since it doesn't knockdown?

[JoeMasters]

I noticed EX Hadou recovers relatively faster than 3s, though. Is there any real obvious use for it since it doesn't knockdown?

Focus Attack/Dash Cancel options.

[forgenjuro]

Goddamn how many times do i have to say this? YES you can combo an ultra after a super in the corner. i dont know how good the damage is though cuz you only get the rising uppercut portion of the super.

as for now most people just use ex projectiles to win fireball wars

his mp into fp target combo has HUGE recovery if blocked so always follow it up with at least a hadouken. sometimes the fp whiffs which i think is relatively safe. sometimes if you cancel into jab srk after the combo it whiffs sometimes. im pretty sure a fierce srk wont whiff however.

his forward+mk is his greatest asset. is quick, has long range, at an advantage if blocked, can combo into jab, sk if hit deep, and can combo into crouching mk if hit at max range.

ill add more stuff later

[Wasted]

Focus Attack/Dash Cancel options.

Well, that's a given. I was looking for something more than that. Can he follow behind it?

[KiShiDo]

Well and what other effect has the EX Hado compared to his normal one. I don't like that they are just stronger... Ok I'm a newbie I have to admit

[goblin]

I'm not much good at this game yet, but this is what I've got so far;

-toward+MK, down+MK, fireball (or shoryu up close)
I've used this to stuff saving attacks or rushing Abel players. The toward+MK was
clearly nerfed in 3s because it would be beastly if you could combo into SA3.
-LP shoryu seems like the best meter builder?
-I've had good luck against Rufus players by baiting dive kicks and then using HP shoryu.
Maybe they just didn't know how to use Rufus though.

I'm mostly getting beaten though, so if people have anything to add, that would be awesome.

[Bass X0]

couple of new kicks :/

what kind of new kicks? why the face?

[JoeMasters]

Goddamn how many times do i have to say this? YES you can combo an ultra after a super in the corner.


Take it easy :confused:

More stuff would be much appreciated though, thankies :lovin:

@forgenjuro does standing close fierce -> mp shoryu -> super still work?

Edit: @Bass Just new weird lookin kicks. I believe he has a better step kick ( ->mk ) like forgenjuro said. He also has a completly new kick. Looks like standing mk from SFII but isnt has high and covers more range. Correct me if im wrong forgenjuro. And the face is because he always has new kicks and thats all that I saw that was different about him.

[let blood run]

i cannot for the life of me get short short super to work. is this even possible?

[forgenjuro]

Take it easy :confused:

More stuff would be much appreciated though, thankies :lovin:

@forgenjuro does standing close fierce -> mp shoryu -> super still work?

Edit: @Bass Just new weird lookin kicks. I believe he has a better step kick ( ->mk ) like forgenjuro said. He also has a completly new kick. Looks like standing mk from SFII but isnt has high and covers more range. Correct me if im wrong forgenjuro. And the face is because he always has new kicks and thats all that I saw that was different about him.

hmmm i dont know about this "new" kick. if its in, i havnt used it much.

close fierce-> mp shoryu-> super should work. I havnt tried it yet.

at max range crouching mk into jab fireball wont combo. but i think fierce fireball might. i once did a combo crouching mk into jab fireball into super but this was relatively close range so i dont know if you can do it at max range with fierce fireball. ken will whiff the first part of the super though (it still hits).

he still has his heel kick, back+mk, but its only 1 hit and i dont know if you can combo anything after. possibly an ex shoryu or a super. will have to try it out.

for a stationary SA ken has good range on his SA. of course a dash up mp,fp,srk will be your best follow up after crumple.

ken's tatsumaki doesnt knock down like ryu's

[JoeMasters]

Wow that's weird hearing about the new 1 hit heel kick. Does it have decent damage?


As for the new kick I was talking about

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_C9yXGfjTwg

The first attack in the first round Ken does is the kick I meant. It came out extremely fast so im guessing its a standing short?

Also I see a lot of people doing strong -> fierce -> fierce shoryu. Now is it a fierce, or is it an ex shoryu?

[drobizh]

Also I see a lot of people doing strong -> fierce -> fierce shoryu. Now is it a fierce, or is it an ex shoryu?

I believe they said fierce shoryu combos after the strong fierce chain. Jab shoryu will whiff sometimes.

[Nokato]

I could be dead wrong here--but I'm speculating that Ken's target combo seems to work similar to linking Crouch Jab into Standing Fierce in CVS2 with Ken. You can combo a Fierce Shoryu from it but a Jab Shoryu will just push you away. You also notice...No one uses this combo in CVS2--its my assumption that his Target Combo really isn't that good. I'd be pretty careful with that Target Combo in SF4, meaning I'd only pull it out in punishing situations until I knew exactly what weight class each character is and knowing which ones actually get hit by Strong, Fierce, Jab DP.


One question--can Ken cancel Fierce Shoryu into Reppa from either the first or second into the Shoryu or is it set to be cancellable only at the first hit?

[Rioting Soul]

i cannot for the life of me get short short super to work. is this even possible?

Some people are saying that rapid fire chains work like in ST. You can't cancel jab or short if you chained two of the same together. You have to work around it by either linking or renda cancelling.

[forgenjuro]

Nokato unfortunately i dont have the answers to your questions.

but I totally fuckin forgot Ken's #1 addition in SF4.

you can kara-throw with his toward+mk!!! wohoooooo~~~!!!
great range!

[DevilJin 01]

Yeah...the Ken player in the newest Azrael vid (with Chun's alt outfit) did a kara throw in the middle of the video. It's the best of 3rd and ST in one game.

[JoeMasters]

Nokato unfortunately i dont have the answers to your questions.

but I totally fuckin forgot Ken's #1 addition in SF4.

you can kara-throw with his toward+mk!!! wohoooooo~~~!!!
great range!

sweet:lovin:

Ken has a mp -> hp chain in cvs2? :amazed:

[Nokato]

sweet:lovin:

Ken has a mp -> hp chain in cvs2? :amazed:

No...I was making a comparison to the fact that his Target Combo in sf4 (Strong, Fierce) isn't as good as it was in 3s. I was saying that its similar to the LINK of Crouching Jab, Standing Fierce in CVS2--in the fact that while it works, its not every practical because if you try to 2-in-1 a Jab Shoryuken, it doesn't connect. Fierce Shoryuken connects from this combo but compared to Ken's other bnb, the combo really doesn't get used often.

I'm saying that the Target Combo in SF4 with Ken probably isn't worth using compared to how good it was in 3s, which means that Ken players may be better off trying to use other bnb that may offer more potential for offensive momentum and setups in SF4.

I don't see how this was confusing. No one has Target Combos in CVS2. :confused:

[Cynistar]

I don't see how this was confusing. No one has Target Combos in CVS2. :confused:

i know its off topic, but didn't terry have a target combo in cvs2 where u could combo his close st.fierce to df fierce?

[MAGUS1234]

maki and yun, but who cares.

I think the combo is fine, just use it point blank vs non small crouchers. c.lkc.lk fp.srk was working well it seems too. Plus mp,fp xx ex hadou SA cancel into mp fp, fp.srk might work :/, or just mp fp xx super

[Nokato]

maki and yun, but who cares.

I think the combo is fine, just use it point blank vs non small crouchers. c.lkc.lk fp.srk was working well it seems too. Plus mp,fp xx ex hadou SA cancel into mp fp, fp.srk might work :/, or just mp fp xx super

Actually I forgot about those 2 characters, so I stand corrected. The potential there for Ken sounds better than I thought. If the SA prediction is right. My one gripe gameplay wise is that the dashes have no distance so its hard to cover ground without doing something the causes alot of recovery animation.

I wonder if anywhere on the EC will get a chance at testing the game out.

[JoeMasters]

No...I was making a comparison to the fact that his Target Combo in sf4 (Strong, Fierce) isn't as good as it was in 3s. I was saying that its similar to the LINK of Crouching Jab, Standing Fierce in CVS2--in the fact that while it works, its not every practical because if you try to 2-in-1 a Jab Shoryuken, it doesn't connect. Fierce Shoryuken connects from this combo but compared to Ken's other bnb, the combo really doesn't get used often.

I'm saying that the Target Combo in SF4 with Ken probably isn't worth using compared to how good it was in 3s, which means that Ken players may be better off trying to use other bnb that may offer more potential for offensive momentum and setups in SF4.

I don't see how this was confusing. No one has Target Combos in CVS2. :confused:

Sorrrrry. I read to fast I guess. Take it easy Peter Pan :looney: I understand what you mean, and I hope that isnt the case because I love the 3s version of the target combo. I gotta do some research on some of the videos ive seen. Maybe it just whiffs on crouching characters?
But yeah i'm wondering about the same thing with the EC getting a crack at the game.

[Maximilian Masters]

Sorrrrry. I read to fast I guess. Take it easy Peter Pan :looney: I understand what you mean, and I hope that isnt the case because I love the 3s version of the target combo. I gotta do some research on some of the videos ive seen. Maybe it just whiffs on crouching characters?
But yeah i'm wondering about the same thing with the EC getting a crack at the game.

Kens target combo completly wiffs the mp at the start if the opponent is crouching. If you happen to press the fierce after, it leaves you wide open, so the target combo is kind of a risk instead of being through and through amazing like it was in 3s. I had this happen to me several times at SDCC, which you can see it over and over again in my videos from the event... http://youtube.com/user/Miles923

[JoeMasters]

Kens target combo completly wiffs the mp at the start if the opponent is crouching. If you happen to press the fierce after, it leaves you wide open, so the target combo is kind of a risk instead of being through and through amazing like it was in 3s. I had this happen to me several times at SDCC, which you can see it over and over again in my videos from the event... http://youtube.com/user/Miles923


Well that sucks. Did you try target combo into lp shoryu at all? Or are those all the matches you had? If so, does it whiff randomly? or is there something to it?

And hows the timing for Ken's SA cancel for his shoryus?

[Nokato]

Well that sucks. Did you try target combo into lp shoryu at all? Or are those all the matches you had? If so, does it whiff randomly? or is there something to it?

And hows the timing for Ken's SA cancel for his shoryus?

^Yeah, this guy pretty much confirmed that Ken's Target Combo is still pretty decent on Standing Characters at least. I just watched a few of his vids from SDCC--and it seems to work on most characters. Even in comboing the Fierce Shoryuken, it looks like you have enough time to go for a Cross up attempt or other mixups. And on Normal/Heavy (not sure if Blanka counts as Heavy in this game yet) Target Combo into Strong Shoryuken in the corner works also.


I wish Ken had his roll in this game, well it might be too slow in this game though so maybe it would'nt have been as useful.

Anyways, good show with Ken--Maximillian Masters.

[Maximilian Masters]

^Yeah, this guy pretty much confirmed that Ken's Target Combo is still pretty decent on Standing Characters at least. I just watched a few of his vids from SDCC--and it seems to work on most characters. Even in comboing the Fierce Shoryuken, it looks like you have enough time to go for a Cross up attempt or other mixups. And on Normal/Heavy (not sure if Blanka counts as Heavy in this game yet) Target Combo into Strong Shoryuken in the corner works also.


I wish Ken had his roll in this game, well it might be too slow in this game though so maybe it would'nt have been as useful.

Anyways, good show with Ken--Maximillian Masters.

Thanks much Nokato. I really wanted to try and show off the new system for the Capcom and SRK community. Unfortunatly Ryu is so different in this game from all other SF incarnations, hence my Ryu videos suck.

To answer the other questions, Yes LP SRK combos off the target combo. It generally safe too, you fall pretty quick but doing Target Combo into Firece SRK does more damage and is eaisier to Focus cancel. As far as cancelling goes, I'll try to explain why focus cancels can get confusing...

Since SF4 runs at 60 fps, you can have alot more command input in each second. When you focus, you generally hold the mp and mk buttons down and release it when you want to attack. When you focus cancel something like a fireball or shoryuken, you would THINK that you would just need to tap the buttons(ala CVS2/3s tapping) but this is not the case. As you land the first hit of a shoryu, you immediatly hold down the MP and MK buttons to cancel the remainder of the shoryu (sucking away a quarter of your meter).

Now.....you can let the focus attack animation continue on...for another hit...or you can cancel it while dashing (at this point you are STILL holding down the mp and mk buttons). After the focus attack comes out, or after you press the ->-> to dash out of it...is when you let go of the MP and MK buttons.

This sounds easy to do, but once you hold the focus attack buttons down and try to think of what to do next can get very tricky. I would get confused several times in the middle of a combo->focus->more combo string and end up doing some retarded huge shoryu or wasted ex move. As I mentioned before with the game running at 60 fps and the input commands, srk's/fireballs or anything really is very easy to pull off since you have 30 extra frames per second to pull off a move.

Big gripe is when doing Ultras. 1/2 the time I ended up doing an EX srk instead of the desired ultra, since you have to press all 3 punches at once. The timing on that is very sensitive, and the 60 fps makes it even more difficult to pull off.

[Nokato]

Sounds like Focus Combos take a bit of dexterity, to me thats not a bad thing so that means when I do play it I'll be fiddling around with it in Training Mode moreso. I get why SF4 isn't coming out until early 2009 via console, but I think for the curious its really long wait. Sadly, only a handful of "arcades" in the US will even get the game due to the high price tag so the majority of the US will either be waiting or travelling to play it.

I don't play tournaments anymore but I am curious as to how the game plays and making a conclusion myself after actually playing it.

[Maximilian Masters]

I don't play tournaments anymore but I am curious as to how the game plays and making a conclusion myself after actually playing it.

Indeed the best way to go. All previous thoughts and gameplay expectations completely changed when I played the game.

[forgenjuro]

Heres some info i previously posted on other threads copy and pasted. mind you this is old ass info.

-

For Ken, i dont know if you can hit confirm super since his super has less range than a fireball. But the super has surprising range so maybe at some distances its possible. It definitely hits at close range of course. His ultra though has very little reach. His best combo IMO is when opponent is in corner, jump in round house, strong punch fierce punch chain into jab SRK, into super, and into Ultra. Kind of like in CVS2. i dont know if you can do more damage but you can SA cancel the first jab SRK and dash forward and do another SRK, SA cancel that into another SRK then ultra.

Ken has his strong fierce chain into SRK but jab SRK wiffes alot and is prolly only guaranteed in the corner. Possibly strong fierce into fierce SRK might be guaranteed out of the corner but didnt have time to try it. If you jab SRK your opponent in the corner you can juggle with your super as a cancel as soon as you SRK, OR you can do the super as your opponent is falling down from the SRK. Not sure if theres any damage difference between the two.

For both Shotos and possibly anybody else who has a SRK type attack, empty jump into SRK is still a viable strategy.

[Angel 666]

Well that sucks. Did you try target combo into lp shoryu at all? Or are those all the matches you had? If so, does it whiff randomly? or is there something to it?

And hows the timing for Ken's SA cancel for his shoryus?

yeah, lp shoryuken whiffs sometimes. but the hp shoryuken always hit after a chain, and even the EX one.
the ultra range is not that bad. yesterday ryan hart used the ultra to go through an hadoken, and the ultra caught the opponent that was pretty far. we were like "wtf??"

[let blood run]

honestly fuck strong fierce, if that fierce whiffs youre basically fucked. this shit has happened to me over and over again whenever i play and its really annoying. its a bad 3s habit to just throw it out there too much.

ps. gene wong aka hail and kill wins sdcc sfiv tourney. I hope theres vids out there because so much dope shit went down. gene wong ... too good.

[mumeigaijin]

pardon my noobness, but i've been reading elsewhere that ken can kara throw, and i have no idea what this is. help? while i'm at it kara cancel? renda cancel?

[Poklin]

I'm pretty sure ken can kara throw with his Foward MK, what this means is if you do a f+mk and cancel the first frame(i think its first) of the move with a grab it will greatly increase the range of your grab.

[JoeMasters]

Yes Ken's f.mk can be used for kara throwing, and has the range of Chun's kara throw in 3rd strike. ( which was very good )

[Grand Viper]

Thanks much Nokato. I really wanted to try and show off the new system for the Capcom and SRK community. Unfortunatly Ryu is so different in this game from all other SF incarnations, hence my Ryu videos suck.

To answer the other questions, Yes LP SRK combos off the target combo. It generally safe too, you fall pretty quick but doing Target Combo into Firece SRK does more damage and is eaisier to Focus cancel. As far as cancelling goes, I'll try to explain why focus cancels can get confusing...

Since SF4 runs at 60 fps, you can have alot more command input in each second. When you focus, you generally hold the mp and mk buttons down and release it when you want to attack. When you focus cancel something like a fireball or shoryuken, you would THINK that you would just need to tap the buttons(ala CVS2/3s tapping) but this is not the case. As you land the first hit of a shoryu, you immediatly hold down the MP and MK buttons to cancel the remainder of the shoryu (sucking away a quarter of your meter).

Now.....you can let the focus attack animation continue on...for another hit...or you can cancel it while dashing (at this point you are STILL holding down the mp and mk buttons). After the focus attack comes out, or after you press the ->-> to dash out of it...is when you let go of the MP and MK buttons.

This sounds easy to do, but once you hold the focus attack buttons down and try to think of what to do next can get very tricky. I would get confused several times in the middle of a combo->focus->more combo string and end up doing some retarded huge shoryu or wasted ex move. As I mentioned before with the game running at 60 fps and the input commands, srk's/fireballs or anything really is very easy to pull off since you have 30 extra frames per second to pull off a move.

Big gripe is when doing Ultras. 1/2 the time I ended up doing an EX srk instead of the desired ultra, since you have to press all 3 punches at once. The timing on that is very sensitive, and the 60 fps makes it even more difficult to pull off.

I was thinking this might be the case. In one of the first few interviews, Ono was saying that back when they were working with sprites, the player wouldn't have noticed if a move that was 5 frames was shortened down to 3, but now that the game is (graphically) 3D, there is nowhere to hide. Everything has to be animated. Being somewhat of an arcade stick noob, this gave me hope, as I still have trouble with execution on arcade sticks as far as canceling and such goes. That is odd about the ultras though. I'm still not sure why they changed it from two to three buttons to activate.

[Maximilian Masters]

I was thinking this might be the case. In one of the first few interviews, Ono was saying that back when they were working with sprites, the player wouldn't have noticed if a move that was 5 frames was shortened down to 3, but now that the game is (graphically) 3D, there is nowhere to hide. Everything has to be animated. Being somewhat of an arcade stick noob, this gave me hope, as I still have trouble with execution on arcade sticks as far as canceling and such goes. That is odd about the ultras though. I'm still not sure why they changed it from two to three buttons to activate.
I was thinking when the console version is released, that we would be able to configure our pads/sticks for a punch x 3 button to counteract this problem. Thinking further into it, if your FP is a punch x 3 or FK is a kick x 3, then if you ever use that button for anything but an ultra...you will get an EX instead. The beast returns! :rofl:
Yes Ken's f.mk can be used for kara throwing, and has the range of Chun's kara throw in 3rd strike. ( which was very good )

It makes sense since throwing is the same as 3s, and might be significantly easier to do with more frames in each second. I was testing that f-mk move quite a bit. It's really the best incarnation of the move in any SF before it, however his standing FK got seriously knocked down the ladder. It takes forever to start, and usually doesn't hit the target when you want too. ->Mk to crouch hadoken works, and its really fast...just eaiser and better in SF4.

[MoxManiac]

Wait, what? I'm pretty sure all the 2D SFs (as well as most 2D fighters) run at 60fps, barring poor quality ports like the psx versions.

[Maximilian Masters]

Wait, what? I'm pretty sure all the 2D SFs (as well as most 2D fighters) run at 60fps, barring poor quality ports like the psx versions.

Reading into a bit and I'm pretty sure you're correct. The screen in every SF game does refresh 60 frames per every second. The default average of a videogame is naturally 30 fps, while film and movies are 24 fps. The big difference you noticed when playing SF4 compared to other SF's, is that SF4 has 60 unique and individual frames of animation per second.

To put this into perspective, take ST. When a character does a sweep motion, lets say its composed of 6 unique animation frames from start to finish. Even tho those 6 frames occupy maybe 2 full seconds(where the screen refreshed 60 times per second), you only saw 6 frames of real animation. In SF4, the refresh rate is the same, but the sweep in SF4 has around 120 unique frames of animation. 6 vs 120. It does no justice watching videos online, since almost every one you will find runs at the default 24 fps. Your missing 36 frames there.

It might be this huge visual and mind trick and it sounds weird, but when you get the game in your hands this'll all make alot more sense!:wonder:

[OMEN]

honestly fuck strong fierce, if that fierce whiffs youre basically fucked. this shit has happened to me over and over again whenever i play and its really annoying. its a bad 3s habit to just throw it out there too much.

ps. gene wong aka hail and kill wins sdcc sfiv tourney. I hope theres vids out there because so much dope shit went down. gene wong ... too good.

I'm sorry but did you just say you wanted to watch a video of someone who's played sf4 one or two days? :confused:

[mumeigaijin]

regarding srk sadc srk...after i sa and dash i can't get anything but a mp srk to come out. guess because i'm releasing the sa at that point. anybody else having this problem? if so any pointers? i'd prefer to be doing a fierce or ex srk, but...

also after mp, fp is there any rhyme or reason to when jab srk will whiff after mp, fp? just range? can't figure out when it's going to miss.

one last thing, srk sadc is only useful off jab srk in my experince. is this true? mp and fp srk when sa canceled leave the opponent standing next to me. no launch. or am i doing it wrong?

[Maximilian Masters]

regarding srk sadc srk...after i sa and dash i can't get anything but a mp srk to come out. guess because i'm releasing the sa at that point. anybody else having this problem? if so any pointers? i'd prefer to be doing a fierce or ex srk, but...

also after mp, fp is there any rhyme or reason to when jab srk will whiff after mp, fp? just range? can't figure out when it's going to miss.

one last thing, srk sadc is only useful off jab srk in my experince. is this true? mp and fp srk when sa canceled leave the opponent standing next to me. no launch. or am i doing it wrong?

Only the last hit in the MP or HP shoryu's will actually launch. Hence if you want to SRK->FADC->SRK you have to use the LP. I was able to do it ONCE awhile ago during Fight Club, but tried several times since and it just hasent happened.

As far as LP shoryu wiffing....I noticed that from each LP->MP->HP shoryu, the horizontal distance changes. LP->Close, MP->Mid, HP->Long, which is why target combo->HP shoryu works so well, since it's easy to connect. To be honest, target combo -> EX Shoryu is the best and takes off a beastly amount of life.

[JoeMasters]

Only the last hit in the MP or HP shoryu's will actually launch. Hence if you want to SRK->FADC->SRK you have to use the LP. I was able to do it ONCE awhile ago during Fight Club, but tried several times since and it just hasent happened.

As far as LP shoryu wiffing....I noticed that from each LP->MP->HP shoryu, the horizontal distance changes. LP->Close, MP->Mid, HP->Long, which is why target combo->HP shoryu works so well, since it's easy to connect. To be honest, target combo -> EX Shoryu is the best and takes off a beastly amount of life.

I actually noticed in a couple of videos it never whiffed off of chun-li. Could it be possible that its based off of certain character hitboxes?

[Maximilian Masters]

I actually noticed in a couple of videos it never whiffed off of chun-li. Could it be possible that its based off of certain character hitboxes?
Absolutely. The boxes in SF4 are traditional 2d based as well. I can even recall situations in 3s, if you cross over Yun (and only Yun) you could target combo into fierce shoryu with all hits connecting. Granted, the damage was ass, and seriously impractical, but he was the only one it worked on.

[Grand Viper]

So with Ken's ultra can you tap for more damage like in past SFs, or is it just the 17 hit autocombo everytime? What about when the initial hit whiffs and you just get the anti-air shinryuken? Can you tap on that?

[Maximilian Masters]

So with Ken's ultra can you tap for more damage like in past SFs, or is it just the 17 hit autocombo everytime? What about when the initial hit whiffs and you just get the anti-air shinryuken? Can you tap on that?
Didnt even think to mash for more damage, ala MVC2. I had that happen in one of my videos, where an opponent jumped over, missed the initial ultra startup hit, and the vertical shinryuken connected.

[Hatred Edge]

Anyone know what Ken's Ultra is called?

[Grand Viper]

AFAIK it's just the Shinryuken. It's a, "Shinryuken on crack" as one of the posters over at GAF that played the game said.

[Maximilian Masters]

Looks like Ken's gonna get alot more playtime with SF4 being available in So Cal now. I'll be sure to take a shit load of videos, while any technical/focus attack/combo related requests for me and any other Ken players able to attend?

[Duy Nguyen]

Are you guys having trouble anti-airiing using Ken's Shoryukens?

I'm getting stuffed tons and tons of times on many of my attempts.

[MAGUS1234]

learn how to last second DP, like sagat ST style.

[Duy Nguyen]

learn how to last second DP, like sagat ST style.

I'm actually hitting the Fierce Shoryus pretty damn deep. I swear I see the fire come out and everything but I still get stuffed.

[MAGUS1234]

you get stuffed all the time or trade? Cause Im pretty sure in this game you can do some crazy shit off trades.

[CFAY]

i seen him get stuffed from heavy DP all the time, you'll see the flame then ken gets knocked back lol. his best anti air SRK is MP. ken is not pulling anything crazy off a trade, maybe another DP for a little more than chip damage.

[Duy Nguyen]

i seen him get stuffed from heavy DP all the time, you'll see the flame then ken gets knocked back lol. his best anti air SRK is MP. ken is not pulling anything crazy off a trade, maybe another DP for a little more than chip damage.

Yea you're right I was anti-airing perfectly today with his Strong Shoryu. Both the Jab and Fierce Shoryu are getting stuffed or traded too easily. It's not like Sagat either because Sagat can trade a Fierce Tiger Uppercut and follow it with a Tiger Knee that does a ton of damage.

[Maximilian Masters]

Got to successfully try out a combo that I was very curious about for a long time with ke
Ken. The setup goes

LP Shoryu->FADC forward->Ultra as they fall.

This is similar to the Ryu FADC, srk into ultra that we all saw Daigo do. I was able to pull off this combo twice last night, and....nothing...it completely wiffed. It looks like it should hit, but it just goes right through the opponent.

So far, the only way I've found to get his ultra into a combo is....

lv 2 FA, hit, dash cancel, Ultra on crumple.

I'll post videos later of my experiments with Ken from the evening.

[CFAY]

Got to successfully try out a combo that I was very curious about for a long time with ke
Ken. The setup goes

LP Shoryu->FADC forward->Ultra as they fall.

This is similar to the Ryu FADC, srk into ultra that we all saw Daigo do. I was able to pull off this combo twice last night, and....nothing...it completely wiffed. It looks like it should hit, but it just goes right through the opponent.

So far, the only way I've found to get his ultra into a combo is....

lv 2 FA, hit, dash cancel, Ultra on crumple.

I'll post videos later of my experiments with Ken from the evening.


you can target combo, heavy SRK, dash to ultra.

try this also, never done it but i been thinking about it lately and havent had a chance to try. shit i might come back with a confirmation today on whether it works or not. i know for sure that ken can C+mk, fireball, SADC, c+mk, fireball or SRK so im thinking since his ex fireball doesnt knock you down and leave you stunned a bit longer than a regular fireball....he should be able to c+mk, EX fireball, SADC, ultra

[Maximilian Masters]

you can target combo, heavy SRK, dash to ultra.

try this also, never done it but i been thinking about it lately and havent had a chance to try. shit i might come back with a confirmation today on whether it works or not. i know for sure that ken can C+mk, fireball, SADC, c+mk, fireball or SRK so im thinking since his ex fireball doesnt knock you down and leave you stunned a bit longer than a regular fireball....he should be able to c+mk, EX fireball, SADC, ultra

Wow good idea. Im going back tonight, and will be sure to get it on video if it does in-fact work. As you we're mentioning on the shoryu-fadc-ultra, it has to be the MP strong shoryu, and you just cancel after the 2nd launching hit right? Usually when I cancel MP shoryu, its on the first hit and they don't launch...

Thanks for the help Cfay

[CFAY]

Wow good idea. Im going back tonight, and will be sure to get it on video if it does in-fact work. As you we're mentioning on the shoryu-fadc-ultra, it has to be the MP strong shoryu, and you just cancel after the 2nd launching hit right? Usually when I cancel MP shoryu, its on the first hit and they don't launch...

Thanks for the help Cfay

use the heavy SRk for the cancel to ultra. you'll cancel after the second hit. much easier than ryu's since ken HP SRK stays on the ground longer and youre doing it after the second hit. after SADC you can also just do another heavy SRK or EX SRK if you dont want to do the ultra but its best to take the ultra if you have it since there arent many way for ken to catch you with an ultra use your super bars for something else.

no prob. i main ryu but i try to get in some play with everyone especially when no good players are around.

[Maximilian Masters]

use the heavy SRk for the cancel to ultra. you'll cancel after the second hit. much easier than ryu's since ken HP SRK stays on the ground longer and youre doing it after the second hit. after SADC you can also just do another heavy SRK or EX SRK if you dont want to do the ultra but its best to take the ultra if you have it since there arent many way for ken to catch you with an ultra use your super bars for something else.

no prob. i main ryu but i try to get in some play with everyone especially when no good players are around.

Cancelling that fierce srk is rough. Always end up doing the first hit instead, other than that I didnt get much done with ken tonight. I'll keep trying tho.

[JoeMasters]

Max, can you combo things off of cl.foward now? I think I saw it in a Jap match some where.. Also, is kne bash in the game at all? Neutral throw/tuffle throw etc

[CFAY]

Cancelling that fierce srk is rough. Always end up doing the first hit instead, other than that I didnt get much done with ken tonight. I'll keep trying tho.

just watch and listen for the second hit then SADC, thats all i can tell you. also confirmed that jab SRK SADC to ultra does work. if you SADC a heavy SRK, you can get a standing fierce or standing roundhouse, i think this is better and takes more life than another SRK but it seems like the normal whiffs sometimes.


that damn combo with the ex fireball didnt work with the ultra. i tried it three times and failed. after the ex fireball i was able to dash in a do almost anything but if i do an ultra, you'll see the op in the hit animation from the fireball(even the fireball hit effects still on screen) but then theyre able to block, da fcuk is that?!

i did try something else though and it only works in the corner...after the c+mp, ex fireball, do a SA and charge to level 2 for a stun, then dash in for the ultra. you dont want to wait too long with the SA or the op will be able to block. you also want to make sure if reaches level 2 or you will not get the stun. i did it twice and it all registered as a combo so it does work. most of the times i did it the op was able to block so its another one of those things that require quite some skill to get off 100% of the time.

[Maximilian Masters]

Max, can you combo things off of cl.foward now? I think I saw it in a Jap match some where.. Also, is kne bash in the game at all? Neutral throw/tuffle throw etc

Yea, C Forward works really well in SF4, lots of possibilities. But no knee bash, its all like 3rd strike throws.

[mumeigaijin]

yeah man i've been thinking about that heavy srk sadc ultra combo for a while but haven't been able to get it and didn't want to　put it up until i did. just can't seem to cancel anything but the first hit of heavy srk. glad to hear that it is possible because i would really like to find a way to hit ultras besides whiff punishing/after sa.

[caliagent#3]

Can you not cleanly AA with a deep dp anymore?? It seems in every vid i see, it trades.

[Duy Nguyen]

Can you not cleanly AA with a deep dp anymore?? It seems in every vid i see, it trades.

Shoryus will trade if you do a Jab or Fierce, however, the Strong Shoryu AAs cleanly.

[K4ever]

Is there something you can do to hit ur opponent right after hitting them with a b+MK ? I guess its possible to do it early when the opponent is on the floor and waking up since you will recover faster than them ... but what about in normal conditions ? Like for example, b+MK, then a EX shoryuken since that one comes very fast ... will this work ? ( opponent just crouching ).

[YuuFone]

why do i see most people using
MP>HP Fierce Shoryu?
cuz it doesn't hurt a lot
would a MP>HP Jab Shoryu hurt more??

can Ken do Air EX tatsu>Shoryuken?
is Ken's ground tatsu any good?

i've only played ken once in the arcades
i don't want to play charge characters cuz i don't know how to cancel with them

[Akutabi Gamma]

IIRC, the LP Shroyuken won't combo from his Chain unless u do it at the corner.

[YuuFone]

IIRC, the LP Shroyuken won't combo from his Chain unless u do it at the corner.

thanx for telling me!
what about MP>HP>tatsu or EX tatsu?
any good?

[Akutabi Gamma]

Well if anything, I believe they do Chain->HP SRK because of damage, super bar meter gain and due to knockdown (which maybe allows Ken to mess up his opponent's play).
I don't think Chain-->QCB+K does a lot of damage tho in this game.

[Cruxay]

I got kara srk'ed mid screen or something that obviously resembled that. I can't exactly remember the condition though. I think I was jumping in, and I ate a l.srk and then another one after this.

maybe it is similar to 3s only with the f+mk this time?

Seems after all the trials with ultra set ups that ken just doesn't match up to Ryu. This is sad :sad: Let's keep trying though!

[Eckostyle]

Is this possible?

meaty j.mk > close mp > close hp > hp srk > SADC > close hp > any srk?

I've got some Ken combos down, but trying to make use of his SADC for rushdown opportunities, since I'm finding myself landing close mp > hp a LOT in this game.

[Duy Nguyen]

Is this possible?

meaty j.mk > close mp > close hp > hp srk > SADC > close hp > any srk?

I've got some Ken combos down, but trying to make use of his SADC for rushdown opportunities, since I'm finding myself landing close mp > hp a LOT in this game.

I don't think so. Well I haven't tried that specific combo you posted but I tried this...

j.roundhouse -> Target Combo xx Fierce Shoryu -> FADC -> Target Combo

The Target Combo didn't combo after the FADC and I would imagine the s.strong coming out faster than the s.fierce.

And how are you landing these strong-fierce target combos!? Stupid thing whiffs all the time not to mention the horrible recovery after the s.fierce.

[Eckostyle]

I just do really meaty cross-ups, and if the mp misses or is blocked, I just stop. I just play conservatively and zone in, then surprise the crap out of them with cross-ups when I have them where I want them or when they try to SA or attack out of the corner. Works like a charm.

As of now, what are some confirmed combos in/out of SADC?

[DaFeetLee]

I'm pretty sure you can ultra after the FADC. :cool:

[Duy Nguyen]

I just do really meaty cross-ups, and if the mp misses or is blocked, I just stop. I just play conservatively and zone in, then surprise the crap out of them with cross-ups when I have them where I want them or when they try to SA or attack out of the corner. Works like a charm.

As of now, what are some confirmed combos in/out of SADC?

Whaaaaa...the s.strong has so much recovery frame even if I stopped after the s.strong I can still get thrown. People just aren't aware that you can punish both of Ken's s.strong and s.fierce with ease. Well once people catch on you can swap over to c.short -> c.jab xx Fierce Shoryu on hit confirm after the crossup.

The best thing I got so far after a FADC is...

*insert combo here* xx Fierce Shoryu -> FADC forwards -> Ultra/Shoryu

[Eckostyle]

Wait, FADC dosent eat away bar?

[DaFeetLee]

Wait, FADC dosent eat away bar?

I think it eats super bar. But it doesn't eat ultra bars. =P

[CrimsonDisaster]

If you do fierce DP (2-hit) SADC, you can juggle with-
fierce DP (only the last hit connects, waste of bar)
EX DP (good damage, actually)
ultra (timing to get the good version)

Might want to check and see if jab or strong DP SADC to EX does more damage. Won't get to play for about a week but if nobody says anything by then I'll try it out.

If your AA DP trades, try doing reversal EX fireball (IIRC Ryu can do this) or dash EX DP. My AA DPs never traded so I never got to mess with it.

Kara-DP sounds like it'd be possible off early AA jab DP (ie. DP hitting late). Maybe even off a ground hit, though it doesn't look like it?

Far away fireball SABDC to bait some anti-fireball ultras = lulz.

[Duy Nguyen]

Far away fireball SABDC to bait some anti-fireball ultras = lulz.

STEALING THAT SHIT!!!

Lol.

[JoeMasters]

how much priority does Ken's f. mk have? And does ex tatsu as useful as it was in 3rd Strike to get in on zoners?

[Eckostyle]

Soooo....f.mk kara throw?

[Maximilian Masters]

how much priority does Ken's f. mk have? And does ex tatsu as useful as it was in 3rd Strike to get in on zoners?

It's by FAR ken's best normal. It has disgusting range, and fits extremely well into poke string. In some of the videos i'm current uploading, I abuse and use the move alot and in many different fashions so you guys can see how good it is. It makes up for kens super slow fireball recovery in some ways, but alot of time I do better with Ryu it seems. Kara throw is extremely good in the same poke strings I was talking about. When all this stuff gets uploaded, i'll stick in some highlight ken videos for you guys to see.

[Cynistar]

updated original post. let me know what else i can put in there or if it even makes sense.

[Maximilian Masters]

There was some talk about Ken's effectiveness against a good Guile player. Have several videos from an evening at Super Arcade with perhaps one of the best SF4 Guile players yet, and me trying NOT to use Ryu to beat him. The Guile player is Exiled/christian, and you can see some fairly decent examples of how Ken can get into Guiles defense even with his terribly slow fireball recovery. Essentialy...f.mk is one of the greatest weapons Ken has in SF4.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=COveX300UjQ Ken vs Guile(ultimate night ending match)

Several videos of Ken from the same night against the same Guile are posted too.

[caliagent#3]

Ken's mp,hp target combo sucks really bad, as does his close s.mp. You're better off doing c.lk,c.lp xx dp or c.lk,c.lp,c.mk xx dp since they start from a low, and are way easier to hit confirm.

[Cynistar]

really? you can combo a cr.mk after a cr.jab? is the timing strict?

[Maximilian Masters]

really? you can combo a cr.mk after a cr.jab? is the timing strict?

Its strict, but slower than you think. I literally do cr.jab cr.jab cr.jab cr.mk hadoken/ex hadoken for a decent damaging/5-6 hit combo. Its a great poke/spacer and you can mix up the c.mk with f.mk.

[Dr.Chaos]

I didn't know you could combo c.lk, c.lp into c.mk good to know. I saw this video you posted Max and wonder how exactly to do it and if its possible off mp -> hp -> Fp srk or is it just jump ins. http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=JSBfjUsEFQk I was trying to do it today but im not sure if i just have to do focus attack then dash or just dash. I manged to get another srk juggle sometimes not the ultra though.

[caliagent#3]

really? you can combo a cr.mk after a cr.jab? is the timing strict?

Timing isn't strict at all. It's about the same timing as it is in cvs2, i was pulling it of pretty consistently yesterday. Mid match i thought to myself "hey, i wonder if i can do a dp after this", tried it and I was surprised that all hits of the dp connected after the initial 3 hits.

[Maximilian Masters]

I didn't know you could combo c.lk, c.lp into c.mk good to know. I saw this video you posted Max and wonder how exactly to do it and if its possible off mp -> hp -> Fp srk or is it just jump ins. http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=JSBfjUsEFQk I was trying to do it today but im not sure if i just have to do focus attack then dash or just dash. I manged to get another srk juggle sometimes not the ultra though.

The Ultra from FADC after a HP SRK only comes after the 2nd hit.... that sounds weird but i'll lay it out to make it seem eaiser.

Most simple situation

You HP SRK an opponent

HP SRK does about 3 hits

1st hit lites the opponent on fire, doesent launch

2nd hit launches-if you FADC after this hit, you will get the full ultra

3rd hit launches late-FADC after this will get you the Shinryuken with decent damage, but no full ultra



So the 2nd and 3rd hit are the opportunities where a ken player can DC out of an HP SRK to connect an ultra after.

[Dr.Chaos]

Hmm, I see. So whats the input for the dash cancel is it focus attack forward forwad, or is it just forward forward, or is it just focus attack. :wonder: Because last night I was getting the srk cancel'd into a focus attack or sometimes a dash. I need to know the right inputs.

[Maximilian Masters]

Hmm, I see. So whats the input for the dash cancel is it focus attack forward forwad, or is it just forward forward, or is it just focus attack. :wonder: Because last night I was getting the srk cancel'd into a focus attack or sometimes a dash. I need to know the right inputs.

Hold down focus attack, press forward forward, release focus attack-> ultra

[Dr.Chaos]

Hold down focus attack, press forward forward, release focus attack-> ultra

Thank You. :karate:

[Maximilian Masters]

Thank You. :karate:

Good luck! On anti air, if you FADC the first hit of a HP SRK and dash cancel, the ultra will fully connect.

[Duy Nguyen]

Is it possible to AA using the Strong Shoryu FADC into an Ultra?

Considering through my experience the Strong Shoryu AAs a ton better than any other variant.

[Mickey D']

Hey, Max, thanks a lot for contributing so much info. Next time that I get to play it, I'm definitely gonna be playing some Ken. You're turning into a great player...that match with Christian's guile was amazing.

Have you toyed around with: c.lk, c.lp, c.mk, ex hadou, SADC...

I know it's 2 meters and all, but I'm just wondering what kind of crazy'ness he can get into....I guess i'll try testing it out for myself later this week.

[Maximilian Masters]

Yea Duy, the first hit or 2nd hit from kens HP shoryu can be FADC'd into ultra. The 1 hit to FADC gets the full ultra to connect, 2nd hit to FADC is just shinryuken. Its much eaiser than the whole combo itself.

Hey, Max, thanks a lot for contributing so much info. Next time that I get to play it, I'm definitely gonna be playing some Ken. You're turning into a great player...that match with Christian's guile was amazing.

Have you toyed around with: c.lk, c.lp, c.mk, ex hadou, SADC...

I know it's 2 meters and all, but I'm just wondering what kind of crazy'ness he can get into....I guess i'll try testing it out for myself later this week.

Much appreciated Mickey. Whenever I see my full meter I'll start to get into the habit of using a FADC'd ex Fireball and see how much stun you can get out of it. Honestly, I don't use ken's c.LK much in SF4. In previous SF's c.lk is so much better than c.lp that you rarely used c.lp at all except for poke strings. In SF4 I think ken and ryu's c.lp is much eaiser to combo. Both can do c.lp, c.lp, c.lp, c.mk, ex hadoken, and its really simple to do. All in all for the SF4 shotos... c.lp > c.lk, but c.lp is a high/mid block, and c.lk is low.

[Mickey D']

Much appreciated Mickey. Whenever I see my full meter I'll start to get into the habit of using a FADC'd ex Fireball and see how much stun you can get out of it.

Yeah, I hear you. With the focus attack opening up so much technicality to the game, we gotta start thinking about what special attacks into SADC's can do on hit as well as on BLOCK. Don't get me wrong, the combos will always be there, but I'm thinking that as the game evolves, when a string is blocked, SADC's are going to need to get more creative other then just throw while opponent is off guard.

But by seeing you're ken, he can REALLY lay down the pressure with that f+mk and kara throw...the distances are just ridiculous.

I think I saw you do something in you're videos where I was like "oh thats hot!" You mixed up on a person's wake up...like this

- crossover mk, land, c.lp, c.lp, kara throw
- crossover mk, land, c.lp, c.lp, SA lvl 2 (into crazy'ness)

Ken is BUFF, and you are proving it man.

[Maximilian Masters]

Yeah, I hear you. With the focus attack opening up so much technicality to the game, we gotta start thinking about what special attacks into SADC's can do on hit as well as on BLOCK. Don't get me wrong, the combos will always be there, but I'm thinking that as the game evolves, when a string is blocked, SADC's are going to need to get more creative other then just throw while opponent is off guard.

But by seeing you're ken, he can REALLY lay down the pressure with that f+mk and kara throw...the distances are just ridiculous.

I think I saw you do something in you're videos where I was like "oh thats hot!" You mixed up on a person's wake up...like this

- crossover mk, land, c.lp, c.lp, kara throw
- crossover mk, land, c.lp, c.lp, SA lvl 2 (into crazy'ness)

Ken is BUFF, and you are proving it man.

Ken does have some aspects that really make him good, then at the same time I do really well with Ryu. I still think after extensive play with SF4, that Ryu is a little better...with a much eaiser FADC Ultra juggle, and super fast hadoken recovery... but Ken has a much better pressure and rush down game. It fits their personality's alot actually... Ryu being the patient cool fighter, and Ken being the flashy offensive guy.

[McRomes]

With Ryu its also much simpler than FADC Ultra. You could just catch them with j. strong if they jump which comes out really fast into Ultra when you land. I honestly save my meter for EX Fireballs and safe wake up DPs. Which I half to say, safe fierce DPs on wake up is a gift from above for Ryu.....maybe actually a bit cheap.

And Mickey D brought up a REALLY good point.....with FADC block strings can last extremely long if you can EX Fireball FADC into another string/mix up.......Really reminds me of Venom's pressure strings in GG a bit.

[ChrisLionheart]

ken's standing RH is not as safe as it was in 3rd strike. There is so much recovery time after that now. It's mostly just low poke games for now. I need to try ultra from a dash canceled fierce shoryu.

[polarity]

ken's standing RH is not as safe as it was in 3rd strike. There is so much recovery time after that now. It's mostly just low poke games for now. I need to try ultra from a dash canceled fierce shoryu.

f+Forward is really, really good.

[caliagent#3]

Yea Duy, the first hit or 2nd hit from kens HP shoryu can be FADC'd into ultra. The 1 hit to FADC gets the full ultra to connect, 2nd hit to FADC is just shinryuken. Its much eaiser than the whole combo itself.



Much appreciated Mickey. Whenever I see my full meter I'll start to get into the habit of using a FADC'd ex Fireball and see how much stun you can get out of it. Honestly, I don't use ken's c.LK much in SF4. In previous SF's c.lk is so much better than c.lp that you rarely used c.lp at all except for poke strings. In SF4 I think ken and ryu's c.lp is much eaiser to combo. Both can do c.lp, c.lp, c.lp, c.mk, ex hadoken, and its really simple to do. All in all for the SF4 shotos... c.lp > c.lk, but c.lp is a high/mid block, and c.lk is low.

Since c.lk can combo into c.lp, you should almost always be doing c.lk,clp into whatever. There's no point in just doing c.lp, especially since his fierce dp has so much range it'll combo off c.mk. This has to be the easiest hit confirm into a dp in SF history.

[Mickey D']

I'm thinking about this combo right here:

- crossover mk, c.lp, c.mk, Ex hado, SADC, f+mk, d.mk, fierce dp.

I've seen people do f+mk, d.mk, fierce dp before. Max what do you think about this?

[K4ever]

I'm thinking about this combo right here:

- crossover mk, c.lp, c.mk, Ex hado, SADC, f+mk, d.mk, fierce dp.

I've seen people do f+mk, d.mk, fierce dp before. Max what do you think about this?

f+MK, d+MK ? ... does this combo ? ... People do this to put pressure but I havent seen it combo.
Vids please ! ^__^

[CFAY]

f+MK, d+MK ? ... does this combo ? ... People do this to put pressure but I havent seen it combo.
Vids please ! ^__^

yea it combos depending on how the f+mk hits. its not one of those things that will always work.

[Maximilian Masters]

I'm thinking about this combo right here:

- crossover mk, c.lp, c.mk, Ex hado, SADC, f+mk, d.mk, fierce dp.

I've seen people do f+mk, d.mk, fierce dp before. Max what do you think about this?

In a corner yes. Just switch out the command after the FADC.

... FADC, Strong, Fierce target combo, fierce dp

[Mickey D']

I was thinking about that combo (the one i posted before) and I was just thinking to myself...that combo should mainly be for show. I'm sure the damage is scaled a ton, it'd be much better just to do c.lk, c.lp shoryuken instead.

Anyways, I'll play it tonight to see if I figure anything out.

[caliagent#3]

Can anyone try to see if ken can link anything after his EX hurricane kick. I was playing at CF on sat. but didn't get many chances to attempt it since you're limited to 6 wins, the few times i tried it looks like he can at least link a jab.

[JoeMasters]

Can anyone try to see if ken can link anything after his EX hurricane kick. I was playing at CF on sat. but didn't get many chances to attempt it since you're limited to 6 wins, the few times i tried it looks like he can at least link a jab.

sure ill try tommarow. air ex tatsu or ground ex tatsu?

[BlackShinobi]

I've been meaning to post in here for a while i've been playing alot of ken trying to figure him out. One thing Someone else found out while playing a game for me is that ken can link two shoryukens without a FADC in certain situations. I swear he got it to work on the ground but I couldn't duplicate it there yet. I did confirm that you can get a fierce shoryuken to connect after a anti air jab shoryuken with no cancel.

I'll figure it out fully soon.

Also the more I play ken the more I am leaning towards the c.lk, c.lp, shoryuken or c.lk, c.lp, c.mk (....) combos. The target combo has a bad habit of the fierce whiffing in the worst situations.

I'm also really interested in other people's use of his meter and If they are using it for supers EX moves or FADC combos. Right now I'm mostly using it for supers and Ex moves depending on the matchup because my FADC combos need more work and I'm tired of losing rounds where my ultra misses after the FADC or they don't launch.

[CFAY]

I've been meaning to post in here for a while i've been playing alot of ken trying to figure him out. One thing Someone else found out while playing a game for me is that ken can link two shoryukens without a FADC in certain situations. I swear he got it to work on the ground but I couldn't duplicate it there yet. I did confirm that you can get a fierce shoryuken to connect after a anti air jab shoryuken with no cancel.

I'll figure it out fully soon.

Also the more I play ken the more I am leaning towards the c.lk, c.lp, shoryuken or c.lk, c.lp, c.mk (....) combos. The target combo has a bad habit of the fierce whiffing in the worst situations.

I'm also really interested in other people's use of his meter and If they are using it for supers EX moves or FADC combos. Right now I'm mostly using it for supers and Ex moves depending on the matchup because my FADC combos need more work and I'm tired of losing rounds where my ultra misses after the FADC or they don't launch.

save the target combo SRK for punishment. you open more windows when you start with a simple c+lk and its a lot more safe.

for meter, i'ld say no need to beast on it when you really dont need to. its always good to see someone block your SRK and you know you have two bars to save your life.

[Mickey D']

I've been meaning to post in here for a while i've been playing alot of ken trying to figure him out. One thing Someone else found out while playing a game for me is that ken can link two shoryukens without a FADC in certain situations. I swear he got it to work on the ground but I couldn't duplicate it there yet. I did confirm that you can get a fierce shoryuken to connect after a anti air jab shoryuken with no cancel.

I'm also really interested in other people's use of his meter and If they are using it for supers EX moves or FADC combos. Right now I'm mostly using it for supers and Ex moves depending on the matchup because my FADC combos need more work and I'm tired of losing rounds where my ultra misses after the FADC or they don't launch.

The two shoryuken combos do work, but best when you're able to hit you're first srk very early. It pops the opponent up a whole lot more if hit early.

Exactly like C said, I mainly use my meter for only a few situations: punishment, retreat. If i get a combo opportunity in, I'll ALWAYS target combo, ex shoryuken. The ex shoryuken does MAD damage. You can also always get: anti air mp shoryuken, SADC, Ultra (once again another punishment situation). As for retreat, when I'm playing someone who's got crazy momentum on me (Abel, Gief, etc.), I'll wake up hp shoryuken, SADC back wards. It gets me out of command grab/mixup range, and i'm back to being able to control the floor via f+mk, or hadoken's.

[JoeMasters]

air ex tatsu recovery is INSANE. You can just go into c.foward right when yo land and it connects.

My Ken has a very long way to go though. Need to improve on so many areas :xeye:

[Akutabi Gamma]

Sorry if this was already discussed but can you increase the number of hits for the Shinryuken by tapping the buttons rapidly?

[Dr.Chaos]

Sorry if this was already discussed but can you increase the number of hits for the Shinryuken by tapping the buttons rapidly?

Yeah, and can you mash out of throws like blankas bite?

[Duy Nguyen]

Yeah, and can you mash out of throws like blankas bite?

Don't think so.

All throws like Blanka's bite, Sagat's knee bash, and Dhalsim's noogie always does a set amount of hits and damage to my knowledge.

[ilurk4free]

sorry if this was already discussed but can you hp SRK into an ultra as you can with the super?

[JoeMasters]

sorry if this was already discussed but can you hp SRK into an ultra as you can with the super?

no, specials cant be canceled into ultras. Just supers.

[BlackShinobi]

so is landing the full ultra on someone in the air just a matter of precise timing on any situation or can it only be done after certain hits? Assuming they are in the corner so they aren't flying away can you always land the full ultra if you time it right or will you just get the shinryuken?

[Dr.Chaos]

When there in the air you should wait till there like slightly above kens head or something. I believe his ultra has a bit of delay and if you do it to late they can block and to early you just get shinryuken. So I think its all just timing.

[JoeMasters]

When there in the air you should wait till there like slightly above kens head or something. I believe his ultra has a bit of delay and if you do it to late they can block and to early you just get shinryuken. So I think its all just timing.

Honestly, ive been trying to figure this out throgh match videos and im still not SURE what it is.

What ive gathered was that in order yo get the pay off version of the ultra, your opponent must be HIGHER from Ken after a HP shoryu. If the fist meets him when his fist is just starting to shinryuken, you'll just get shinryuken. But if it hits when the fist is mid body of Ken, you'll get the pay off.

[Dr.Chaos]

I never got it off someone jumping in then srk to ultra, i just mp hp srk. Then as there coming down ultra. I thought he meant someone jumping in the air and using the ultra as the anti air.

[BlackShinobi]

i can get the ultra as an anti air and I can get the Fierce SRK, SADC, ultra combo out but I've never gotten the entire ultra out after that combo or after the super, for that matter.

For a while it would just miss completely and then I realized that I was misjudging the speed of his ultra because it looks alot faster than it is. Now that I've got the timing down for that I'm trying to figure out if tightening it up further will allow me to get the full ultra at the end of these combos every time.

[JoeMasters]

yeah I dont know what the deal is with it. I'll def be messing with it next time.

[caliagent#3]

It's possible to get the entire ultra. I saw in one of the japanese vids a while back

[Dr.Chaos]

Max does it off srk twice in this vid. One in corner and other slighty out of corner. You can kind of see he does it when there slighty above kens head. Since the ultra has a bit of delay it comes out when they are basically on the ground. Giving you the full ultra. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSBfjUsEFQk

[JoeMasters]

Max does it off srk twice in this vid. One in corner and other slighty out of corner. You can kind of see he does it when there slighty above kens head. Since the ultra has a bit of delay it comes out when they are basically on the ground. Giving you the full ultra. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSBfjUsEFQk

I guess you have a better chance getting it off of an anti air?

[ViciousSLASH]

I am happy Ken is from America.

He on my allowed playable characters list.

Real Americans only play as Real Americans.

Luckily 3 of the characters on that list are looking like really good characters. GOD BLESS AMERICA.

[Dr.Chaos]

I guess you have a better chance getting it off of an anti air?

I believe its all about timing. I got full ultra off target combo srk. However, I only managaged it once because I was having trouble with the focus attack dash cancel input. I kept getting the focus attack, instead of dash. Next time I go to the arcade im going to try and hit up trial mode, isnt that like training mode for 90 seconds?

[Golden_Gunman]

So can you connect Full Ultra after Focus Attack->Dash Cancel from Ken's Target Combo anywhere on the screen?

It makes him a lot more powerful in my view if this is true.

[ChrisLionheart]

forward medium kick, so very, very beastful.

[Wasted]

I believe its all about timing. I got full ultra off target combo srk. However, I only managaged it once because I was having trouble with the focus attack dash cancel input. I kept getting the focus attack, instead of dash. Next time I go to the arcade im going to try and hit up trial mode, isnt that like training mode for 90 seconds?

Survival mode, basically. You can't be challenged. Timer starts at 180 seconds, you get +10 for each win.

[BlackShinobi]

Max does it off srk twice in this vid. One in corner and other slighty out of corner. You can kind of see he does it when there slighty above kens head. Since the ultra has a bit of delay it comes out when they are basically on the ground. Giving you the full ultra. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSBfjUsEFQk

So can you connect Full Ultra after Focus Attack->Dash Cancel from Ken's Target Combo anywhere on the screen?

It makes him a lot more powerful in my view if this is true.

the video backs up what maximilian, that the second hit of a fierce shoryuken can be cancelled into a full ultra, but since both of the ones in the vid where anti air SRKs where the opponent is higher from the start it still leaves some questions about if you can get the full ultra from a ground combo into SRK.

I was playing a ryu the other day who liked to crouch alot and whenever I would cross him up. while he was crouching the fierce in my target combo would miss. Anyone know if that's with everyone or just certain characters?

[Dr.Chaos]

the video backs up what maximilian, that the second hit of a fierce shoryuken can be cancelled into a full ultra, but since both of the ones in the vid where anti air SRKs where the opponent is higher from the start it still leaves some questions about if you can get the full ultra from a ground combo into SRK.

I was playing a ryu the other day who liked to crouch alot and whenever I would cross him up. while he was crouching the fierce in my target combo would miss. Anyone know if that's with everyone or just certain characters?

Its not just ryu its almost the entire cast. If they are crouching its a very high chance the mp or hp will whiff. Thats why people are leaning more to the lk lk mk srk set up and saving the target combo for punishment situations.

[DaemoN_]

Can someone post what the difference between
-cr.short xx cr.jab xx cr.mk xx hp. shoryu
and
-cr.jab xx cr.jab xx cr. jab xx cr.mk xx EX hado

Which one does more damage and are these combos better than target combo XX fierce shoryu XX SADC shoryu?

[BlackShinobi]

Its not just ryu its almost the entire cast. If they are crouching its a very high chance the mp or hp will whiff. Thats why people are leaning more to the lk lk mk srk set up and saving the target combo for punishment situations.

Thats what I plan on doing, or at least c.lk, c.lp, shoryuken, but for the last week i've been using the target combo just to study to when it whiffs, Same thing for adding the c.mk at the end, there are time when it causes the SRK to whiff. so after I get the target combo figured out i need to figure out the range for that combo.
Maximum damage with without the fear of anything whiffing, thats the plan.

Can someone post what the difference between
-cr.short xx cr.jab xx cr.mk xx hp. shoryu
and
-cr.jab xx cr.jab xx cr. jab xx cr.mk xx EX hado

Which one does more damage and are these combos better than target combo XX fierce shoryu XX SADC shoryu?

My ken could be alot better but here are my thoughts.

The first one can't be blocked high at the beginning, the second one can. The second one is safer on block. The first on has a better follow up option FADC into ultra/srk. I'm pretty sure both do less damage than target combo but they don't run the same risk of whiffing and leaving you wide open. those combos also leave you the option of stopping and going for something else on block crossup/throw etc. once you get to the fierce in ken's target combo you're sort of locked in to a hadouken/SRK or focus cancel since it leaves him open.

[K4ever]

I guess it depends on reaction but for me I prefer to do the ultra as an antiair as itself, no srk into FADC needed. That way I save FA meter and dont get damage scale on the ultra =).

[BlackShinobi]

that combo work great - sort of
I used fierce shoryuken as my anti air to get used to cancelling it into the ultra, its not that hard at all, the problem is how many things stuff a fierce shoryuken in this game. I need to test it out more with the EX shoryuken and see if that works because baiting a jump for an ultra setup is stupid when you get jump kicked out of your anti air.

[JoeMasters]

that combo work great - sort of
I used fierce shoryuken as my anti air to get used to cancelling it into the ultra, its not that hard at all, the problem is how many things stuff a fierce shoryuken in this game. I need to test it out more with the EX shoryuken and see if that works because baiting a jump for an ultra setup is stupid when you get jump kicked out of your anti air.

People also get popped up higher if you Shoryu them out of a Focus Attack. Thats what I gathered from the videos anyway. Man I really wanna play this game again :sad:

[Dr.Chaos]

I think strong shoryu then ultra would work and be better for anti air situations. Since its similar to how ryu connects his ultra. I think I may stop by the arcade after class to see about this stuff.
I could barely get the focus cancel dash out until my like 100th game. I think I got the input now I was doing it to fast I believe. Although I couldnt connect the ultra to save my life, I got it once but it was just shinryuken. Anyway his forward mk is to good and his kara is great, but you guys already know this :wgrin:

[YuuFone]

does anybody know how to cancel ex shoryuken????

[ilurk4free]

ive been reading alot about this target combo but what is it. and also do u guys have and tips on facing keep away characters like guile? i have alot of trouble trying to get in on them

[Sephiroth73003]

Target Combo is also referred to as "auto-combo" or "Chain." It's a combo that is directly built into the character but is not canceling a normal into a special. For Ken this is pressing MP than FP. Proper notation st. MP>FP.

Rufus's is st. lk, HK and so forth

[CFAY]

does anybody know how to cancel ex shoryuken????

same way you cancel a regular sho ryu ken

[Dr.Chaos]

ive been reading alot about this target combo but what is it. and also do u guys have and tips on facing keep away characters like guile? i have alot of trouble trying to get in on them

Well for guile try to get him in the corner and tell him "I hope you like pain!":nunchuck: Since Ken cant really have epic fireball battles like Ryu dont try, your going to have to get in close and do damage. Get in close by using using forward mk, that gives you some good distance and catches alot of people along with ex hadokens.
If you get a knockdown go for cross up, and make good use of tick and kara throws. Stay on the ground for the most part dont jump for no reason (well atleast for sagat) Once you close the gap and get in there face, it should be pretty easy to do damage. Make sure you watch out for flash kicks on wake up but closing the gap and getting in there face is key.
For someone like Blanka (I think hes keepaway) dont do fireballs that often, cause his sweep crap goes like full screen i swear. If you are like full away from him and he has enough bar to ex, dont hadoken beacuse his ex ball will go through it. When you get in close make use of the focus attack to stuff his pokes and dash in with target combo ex srk or something else. I think focus might beat his sweep too, im not sure but 1 or 2 will teach him and lesson and he will be more careful about poking reckless, and will probably go ball and electricity spamming. So watch out for that and abuse forward mk and throws.
Same thing for Sagat just get in close with same tactics as above.

[BlackShinobi]

For guile so far I've had to tone down my normal play style and be more patient, there was a guile player in there the other week who made me realize how much work my fireball game needs.

Full screen fireballs against Blanka aren't a problem if he EXs through them he will eat an Ex shoryuken. You can hit him with the ultra but if you time it wrong he will go through you.

Also something i'm quite ashamed to admit but, it took me two weeks to realize you can still jab blanka out of that ball regular or Ex.making it a little less troublesome fighting him for me at least.
The other thing i didn't realize about blanka for a while is that his ultra is not the same as his super, it hits before the ball even starts and for some distance in front of him its very visually deceiving move, just something to watch out for.

[Dr.Chaos]

For guile so far I've had to tone down my normal play style and be more patient, there was a guile player in there the other week who made me realize how much work my fireball game needs.

Full screen fireballs against Blanka aren't a problem if he EXs through them he will eat an Ex shoryuken. You can hit him with the ultra but if you time it wrong he will go through you.

Also something i'm quite ashamed to admit but, it took me two weeks to realize you can still jab blanka out of that ball regular or Ex.making it a little less troublesome fighting him for me at least.
The other thing i didn't realize about blanka for a while is that his ultra is not the same as his super, it hits before the ball even starts and for some distance in front of him its very visually deceiving move, just something to watch out for.

I totally forgot you could do that too, thanks for the reminder.

[magus704]

Is Ken's kara throw an essential tool to learn when playing him? Like, is his throw range increases so dramatically that attempting to grab someone without it is worthless?

[Dr.Chaos]

Its good for poke strings and stuff like lp lk the kara. Its safer then dashing in and throwing which ken had to do in 3s. It also catches people off guard and adds to his mix up options. So its not essential but its a great addition to your game.

[JoeMasters]

Is Ken's kara throw an essential tool to learn when playing him? Like, is his throw range increases so dramatically that attempting to grab someone without it is worthless?

I think it is. To fireball characters the most anyway. He doesnt have much of a fireball game, so when you get in you have to make it count. It makes cross up a hell of a lot easier because you can roll tech throws. Its good for strings and fake outs, and it always keeps your opponent guessing.

[magus704]

Thanks for the tip, it seems that I'm going to have to start incorporating it as apart of my mixup. I've always tried to avoid trying to do it generally since I'm not sure the exact timing to do it. I know that I'm supposed to use f+mk, but I'm not sure at which frame during that move I have to cancel it to the throw.

[Wasted]

Don't pay attention to frames; you don't need to look at the screen to kara-throw. Animation is so fast that you won't be able to see two or three frames ahead, react, then hit throw within 1/60th of a second.

Get your execution right, and you'll do it everytime with your eyes closed.

Just drum it: f+MK~LP+LK. That's all there is to it.

Despite what some say, it isn't hard.

[YuuFone]

same way you cancel a regular sho ryu ken

but i've seen people EX shoryuken and then dash in to other moves

i've tried EX shoryu and then dash but it doesn't work

or am i just timing it wrong....

[Duy Nguyen]

but i've seen people EX shoryuken and then dash in to other moves

i've tried EX shoryu and then dash but it doesn't work

or am i just timing it wrong....

That's not an EX Shoryu. Everytime you FADC a move your character will flash yellow. If you look closely at it again you'll see the Shoryu animation come out but it doesn't necesarrily startup yellow but your character will turn yellow midway then he dashes.

The inputs are...
DP+P, MP+MK (hold), dash forward/back

[Duy Nguyen]

Is the c.short, c.jab into Fierce Shoryu a link or a cancel?

[Laishin]

how's that a cancel?

[K4ever]

You cant do ANY special move after c.low, c. jab IF these are pressed as a string. BUT if you TIME the c. jab so it will connect right after the c.low finishes the animation then it MIGHT be possible to do a special move after. Still its pointless. You are better doing c. lowX2, c. jab, c. forward, into fierce fireball or qcb+RH.

[Duy Nguyen]

You cant do ANY special move after c.low, c. jab IF these are pressed as a string. BUT if you TIME the c. jab so it will connect right after the c.low finishes the animation then it MIGHT be possible to do a special move after. Still its pointless. You are better doing c. lowX2, c. jab, c. forward, into fierce fireball or qcb+RH.

What's so pointless about it? Good damage and a knockdown, what more can you ask for? If the the c.short->c.jab doesn't hit they're in a good position to Kara-Throw.

Also I figured it out already when I went to AI just now. You cancel the Fierce Shoryu off the c.jab. Still not use the 3D animation so I thought you can link the Fierce Shoryu on hit confirm instead of canceling into it from the videos I've seen.

[K4ever]

What's so pointless about it? Good damage and a knockdown, what more can you ask for? If the the c.short->c.jab doesn't hit they're in a good position to Kara-Throw.

Also I figured it out already when I went to AI just now. You cancel the Fierce Shoryu off the c.jab. Still not use the 3D animation so I thought you can link the Fierce Shoryu on hit confirm instead of canceling into it from the videos I've seen.

You go to AI too ? .. cool. Hey dude, if u want we can get some Ken vs Ken matches if u want. Maybe even with money involved :lovin:

[Mr Mat]

Ken Owns.

[Duy Nguyen]

You go to AI too ? .. cool. Hey dude, if u want we can get some Ken vs Ken matches if u want. Maybe even with money involved :lovin:

Hahahaha, I would so money match if the machine didn't cost $1 already. Today was my first time coming to AI for SF4 and I am very damn impressed at the setup. Probably hit it up again on Thursday if I don't have work.

[K4ever]

Ill probably be there thursday from 1 to 4pm.

[Maximilian Masters]

Been playing SF4 at FFA alot frequently, and got hours of playtime to dink around with Ken. To solve the mystery of why Ken's SRK-FADC-Ultra either connects for full ultra, or doesent connect to give you shinryuken(shitty damage) is this....

Only certain setups work. Example...

Opp jumps in, you FP Srk ->FADC off the first hit-> Ultra (full connection)

You cross up opp, strong fierce target combo->HP Srk-> FADC off the 2nd hit(and only the 2nd hit)->Ultra (shinkryuken)

Whats the difference in both these situations? It's the distance. The target combo doesent push the opp back enough for a FP Srk, but it will push them too far to get a full ultra.

Example. FP Srk an opp with no hits before it, FADC off 2nd hit, Ultra for full connection. Ken is already close to the opp enough for the ultra to hit....essentially if you do a multi hit combo before you FP Srk, you will only get the shinryuken out of your Ultra. Going to mess around with c.MK - HP srk - FADC - Ultra to see if one hit is allowed, but I'm pretty sure it'd work.

[JoeMasters]

Been playing SF4 at FFA alot frequently, and got hours of playtime to dink around with Ken. To solve the mystery of why Ken's SRK-FADC-Ultra either connects for full ultra, or doesent connect to give you shinryuken(shitty damage) is this....

Only certain setups work. Example...

Opp jumps in, you FP Srk ->FADC off the first hit-> Ultra (full connection)

You cross up opp, strong fierce target combo->HP Srk-> FADC off the 2nd hit(and only the 2nd hit)->Ultra (shinkryuken)

Whats the difference in both these situations? It's the distance. The target combo doesent push the opp back enough for a FP Srk, but it will push them too far to get a full ultra.

Example. FP Srk an opp with no hits before it, FADC off 2nd hit, Ultra for full connection. Ken is already close to the opp enough for the ultra to hit....essentially if you do a multi hit combo before you FP Srk, you will only get the shinryuken out of your Ultra. Going to mess around with c.MK - HP srk - FADC - Ultra to see if one hit is allowed, but I'm pretty sure it'd work.


Figured it was distance. thanks Max.

[magus704]

Is it possible to get the ultra after landing your super? Or any move after landing your super for that matter? It seems that Ken lands the opponent hits the ground on his super so I'm wondering if it's possible to juggle the opponent again for a re-launch of some sort.

[BlackShinobi]

Is it possible to get the ultra after landing your super? Or any move after landing your super for that matter? It seems that Ken lands the opponent hits the ground on his super so I'm wondering if it's possible to juggle the opponent again for a re-launch of some sort.
The ultra connects in the corner at least the shinryuken part does.

Been playing SF4 at FFA alot frequently, and got hours of playtime to dink around with Ken. To solve the mystery of why Ken's SRK-FADC-Ultra either connects for full ultra, or doesent connect to give you shinryuken(shitty damage) is this....

Only certain setups work. Example...

Opp jumps in, you FP Srk ->FADC off the first hit-> Ultra (full connection)

You cross up opp, strong fierce target combo->HP Srk-> FADC off the 2nd hit(and only the 2nd hit)->Ultra (shinkryuken)

Whats the difference in both these situations? It's the distance. The target combo doesent push the opp back enough for a FP Srk, but it will push them too far to get a full ultra.

Example. FP Srk an opp with no hits before it, FADC off 2nd hit, Ultra for full connection. Ken is already close to the opp enough for the ultra to hit....essentially if you do a multi hit combo before you FP Srk, you will only get the shinryuken out of your Ultra. Going to mess around with c.MK - HP srk - FADC - Ultra to see if one hit is allowed, but I'm pretty sure it'd work.
Now I'm starting to get ideas. does anyone know if FP SRK backard FADC in the corner would be to far for an ultra to connect.

By the way I spent the weekend getting killed trying to get the figure out how to use fierce SRK as an anti air to get the full ultra but it just doesn't seem reliable enough.

[Mickey D']

By the way I spent the weekend getting killed trying to get the figure out how to use fierce SRK as an anti air to get the full ultra but it just doesn't seem reliable enough.

Yeah, definitely keep in mind that though Srk, FADC, Ultra IS very good, you have to realize that this cannot be something that you can put so much of you're game play into. In other words, you can't rely on hitting the Ultra with all hits right now, therefore, you're going to have to put you're time into something more effective in getting in damage.

There are plenty of ways to get in damage with Ken. To whoever asked "is learning kara throw vital?" Yes it is. It enables you're Ken to have a dual 50/50 mixup after a couple of jabs/shorts.

Ken's mixups in a nutshell: After a knockdown
- Crossover with j.mk, c.lk, c.lp...
- Empty jump over, land, c.lk, c.lp...
- Throw on wake up (crossover j.mk, land throw...empty jump over, throw...dash back, dash forward, throw, etc.)

It's going to be essential to mixup you're options after you're knockdown. Go high with a crossover j.mk, or go low, by jumping over without a crossover, and beginning with a c.lk instead. Lastly, throwing on you're opponents wake up is going to get you're opponent to start reacting to you're crossover differently.

Obviously, if you hit you're crouching normals, finish you're combo off with a hp shoryuken. If you're two crouching hits are blocked, go for a kara throw. After kara throwing, when you're opponent seems to be catching on, react to what they're doing. For example, they like to try and jab you out of you're throw attempt, go for a c.hk to reset the situation all over again.

A side note, remember that the more you knock them down, the more you test you're opponents patience. When a person becomes impatient they result into scrubby tactics such as wake up dp/super, or wake up throw. Keep that in mind when you're getting consecutive combos/throws.

Conclusion: The point is to get you're opponent to become conditioned to throw you. Once you have them constantly trying to tech you're throws, you are now able to mix up by combo'ing instead. Get the opponent to be scared of a kara throw and watch their reaction so that later in the match you can counter it.

[K4ever]

wheres a vid of ken's kara-throw? ,, I have been trying to do it many times and still cant pull it out. I just press constantly jab+short immediately after I perform f+mk. Whats the timing?

[Mickey D']

wheres a vid of ken's kara-throw? ,, I have been trying to do it many times and still cant pull it out. I just press constantly jab+short immediately after I perform f+mk. Whats the timing?

Timing is weird if you're new to kara throws. Here's a video of Max's Ken doing a Kara throw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvyRvAz2D64 (1.59 - 2.02)

How to exactly DO a kara throw (you might already know but here it is anyways): f+mk XX lp+lk (throw). The timing is right after another. You pretty much press the f+mk and throw command at the same time. There's really NO time spaced between the two. Ask someone at you're arcade to show you the cancel if you get the chance.

[MAGUS1234]

Use your annular or middle finger to press the mk input and use your index and thump to hit the throw cmd. Almost simultaneously

[Igotdembombs]

Gotta say, I miss Kens various Supers. Lets say someone is above your head, maybe Vega(claw) flying over you or something. In past games that would call for a shinryuken. If you try to do a Shinryuken in that situation what would happen? I mean, does he still do the straight up motion?

[Duy Nguyen]

Gotta say, I miss Kens various Supers. Lets say someone is above your head, maybe Vega(claw) flying over you or something. In past games that would call for a shinryuken. If you try to do a Shinryuken in that situation what would happen? I mean, does he still do the straight up motion?

Yes, if the full Ultra doesn't land you'll get the Shinryuken part.

[Golden_Gunman]

How do you connect cr.LK, cr.LP, cr.LK into a Dragon Punch. Do you have to renda kara cancel? I can't seem to be able to do this and it's obviously a massive thing to have in your arsenal. Could someone please tell me how it's done?

[Duy Nguyen]

How do you connect cr.LK, cr.LP, cr.LK into a Dragon Punch. Do you have to renda kara cancel? I can't seem to be able to do this and it's obviously a massive thing to have in your arsenal. Could someone please tell me how it's done?

No Renda Canceling required.

I don't think adding in a 3rd c.Short after the c.Jab is a good idea due to distance and whatnot. I just straight up c.short -> c.jab xx Fierce Shoryu. You just gotta add in those inputs faster.

[Laishin]

yea only 2 hits from my experience. or else shoryu will miss.

[BlackShinobi]

It will connect after a third hit, but it will also miss to sometimes. I haven't seen or had c.lk, c.lp Fierce SRK miss yet.

[FullMetalRoss]

I thought you couldn't cancel light attacks with the shotos? do you have to link it off the cr.lp perhaps? it would make sense that the dp was that fast....

[Duy Nguyen]

I thought you couldn't cancel light attacks with the shotos? do you have to link it off the cr.lp perhaps? it would make sense that the dp was that fast....

I believe it is a cancel. You can combo c.short -> c.jab xx Jab Shoryu with Ken back in 3s so it is no different here. Well except the combo mentioned in earlier posts works anywhere on the map whereas the one in 3s are character and/or wall specific.

[FullMetalRoss]

I believe it is a cancel. You can combo c.short -> c.jab xx Jab Shoryu with Ken back in 3s so it is no different here. Well except the combo mentioned in earlier posts works anywhere on the map whereas the one in 3s are character and/or wall specific.

except this isn't 3s... I don't have the game to test, but try just doing short,jab cancel into fireball... It doesn't seem to work, Im guessing its a link to dp not a cancel, which really doesn't make it tougher at all, just a different way to think about the inputs.

[Duy Nguyen]

except this isn't 3s... I don't have the game to test, but try just doing short,jab cancel into fireball... It doesn't seem to work, Im guessing its a link to dp not a cancel, which really doesn't make it tougher at all, just a different way to think about the inputs.

I went to AI yesterday to play some more and try to visually see if it's a link or not and to be honest I can't really tell. The time and window to put in the Fierce Shoryu is so damn small and fast that I can't even tell. But I'm still leaning towards the cancel simply because sometimes I don't do the inputs fast enough and I get nothing after the c.jab. If it was a link the Fierce Shoryu would've came out and whiffed or get blocked.

Regardless if it was a link or a cancel just treat it like a cancel in terms of adding in the inputs. I immediately buffer and do the Fierce Shoryu as soon as I see the c.jab hit.

[FullMetalRoss]

okay cool. Thanks, I was having tons of problems doing it, I guess I just need to put it in asap.

[MOD]

to do specials after normals such as shorts and jabs, you need to link the final hit.

Its like this. c.jab link c.short fireball. or c.jab link c.jab shoryuken. If you try to cancel things like in 3rd strike, it doesn't seem to work.

[BlackShinobi]

i'm pretty sure its not a cancel

[Mariodood]

if you guys need practice with kens kara throw, pick elena In 3s. She has the exact same kara throw as sf4 ken and the same timing.

Speaking of the timing, it is NOT pushing all 3 at once. You push forward mk, THEN you hit lplk.
The time between the two inputs is so small that people watching you would think you're just
hitting all 3 at once, but if you really hit all 3 at once, you won't be able to consistently do it.

I do it by holding out my middle,index and ring fingers over the buttons. My ring finger is slightly lower than my index and middle are. Then I lower all 3 fingers onto the buttons at the same time. Because my ring finger is lower than the other two, it hits it's button (MK) slightly before my index and middle hit their buttons (LP and MK). Sorry if my description is hard to understand, but thats the best I can do without a camera. Once again, if you wanna practice, dust off your copies of 3s and pick elena.

[K4ever]

Nothing new with ken?
Q: Which moves ( normals or/and specials ) can be FAcancelled? I know many characters can cancel with a FA several normals, so I dont know if Ken attacks could be cancelled the same way. Like it would be awesome if you could cancel b+MK, or f+HK as these moves are overheads ( but Im pretty sure I have tried cancelling them .. with no results. Or maybe theres strict timing when cancelling ).

[Mickey D']

Nothing new with ken?
Q: Which moves ( normals or/and specials ) can be FAcancelled? I know many characters can cancel with a FA several normals, so I dont know if Ken attacks could be cancelled the same way. Like it would be awesome if you could cancel b+MK, or f+HK as these moves are overheads ( but Im pretty sure I have tried cancelling them .. with no results. Or maybe theres strict timing when cancelling ).

Out of my experience he has been able to cancel out of these normals: Standing: mp, hp (didn't try s.mk or hk, or jab/short moves as those are lack luster anyways). Crouching: jab, strong, forward, fierce (didn't try short and I know c.hk cannot be cancelled)

He can combo the focus attack by using his target combo...though this isn't anything but flash, I'm still trying to learn if you can combo after the FA. I'm guessing you can throw afterwards if you hit this combo, however an opponent could get away by jumping or back dashing....though this would take REAL good reflexes or even psychic ability to know that throw was gonna happen after this combo. All in all, showy and flashy, yet waste of meter imo.

[K4ever]

Out of my experience he has been able to cancel out of these normals: Standing: mp, hp (didn't try s.mk or hk, or jab/short moves as those are lack luster anyways). Crouching: jab, strong, forward, fierce (didn't try short and I know c.hk cannot be cancelled)

He can combo the focus attack by using his target combo...though this isn't anything but flash, I'm still trying to learn if you can combo after the FA. I'm guessing you can throw afterwards if you hit this combo, however an opponent could get away by jumping or back dashing....though this would take REAL good reflexes or even psychic ability to know that throw was gonna happen after this combo. All in all, showy and flashy, yet waste of meter imo.

I didnt know that you could FA the target combo ... thx!:china:

Btw, I read on the general forum that you can cancel a FA into a super or ultra ... meaning that "maybe" its possible to do a close target combo ( after a crossup mk ), then FA, and then cancel it into Ultra!! :looney: Im just speculating here but I will try to do some setups out of that mp, hp, FA combination.

Thx again !! :wgrin:

Edit: Oops, now that I read your post carefully I