Honda Thread

[The Mullah]

thoughts on honda:


Anti Airs: honda has the most beastly anti air when he has ultra and super meter, without it he can ex butt slam or headbutt, his normals suck for anti air (chop will trade always). Jump up roundhouse comes out faster than jump up fierce, but doesn't have the range (and power?). jump fierce (forwards and backwards > than in ST) makes jumping over fireballs a breeze.

-Hands = piano cvs2 style, requires 6 inputs though. fierce hands hits loads of times, ex hands lets him shuffle forwards, not bad.

-headbutt packs a punch, always trades favourably vs balls, psycho crusher etc. ex headbutt works as an AA when i used it. If the opponent is high above you i don't know if it would work as well.

-ochio seems to grab easily, i'd tick of a crouching mp or crouching lk and it was easy enough. i don't actually know what the ex version does even though i did it lots of times.

his new overhead seems pretty slow and crappy range, knocks down though.

towards and RH is a great counter poke, real fast. i would stand just outside of sweep range vs shotos and counter whiffs or fireballs if i was lucky to throw it out as the qcf'd.

crouching forward seemed to come out fast, decent range despite looking pretty stubby and combod into headbutt for good damage.


I played about 20-40 matches with Honda, didn't really get much of a clue about the priority of his ground normals and i've never used honda in any previous SF so i didn't know what would normally work.

how the hell do i beat turtle guile? He seems hard to cross up, my splash whiffed a lot of the time, guess i need to get the spacing and timing down.
can you dash cancel and ex headbutt once honda is airborn?

[Rojo]

thoughts on honda:


Anti Airs: honda has the most beastly anti air when he has ultra and super meter, without it he can ex butt slam or headbutt, his normals suck for anti air (chop will trade always). Jump up roundhouse comes out faster than jump up fierce, but doesn't have the range (and power?). jump fierce (forwards and backwards > than in ST) makes jumping over fireballs a breeze.

-Hands = piano cvs2 style, requires 6 inputs though. fierce hands hits loads of times, ex hands lets him shuffle forwards, not bad.

-headbutt packs a punch, always trades favourably vs balls, psycho crusher etc. ex headbutt works as an AA when i used it. If the opponent is high above you i don't know if it would work as well.

-ochio seems to grab easily, i'd tick of a crouching mp or crouching lk and it was easy enough. i don't actually know what the ex version does even though i did it lots of times.

his new overhead seems pretty slow and crappy range, knocks down though.

towards and RH is a great counter poke, real fast. i would stand just outside of sweep range vs shotos and counter whiffs or fireballs if i was lucky to throw it out as the qcf'd.

crouching forward seemed to come out fast, decent range despite looking pretty stubby and combod into headbutt for good damage.

I played about 20-40 matches with Honda, didn't really get much of a clue about the priority of his ground normals and i've never used honda in any previous SF so i didn't know what would normally work.

how the hell do i beat turtle guile? He seems hard to cross up, my splash whiffed a lot of the time, guess i need to get the spacing and timing down.
can you dash cancel and ex headbutt once honda is airborn?

He really has no good anti airs unless you have meter. Though I didn't have time to test his new normals out.

FHB does good damage and has good priority. I remember I traded hits with Ryu's super when doing a FP FHB. I was like, crap...then suprise. Ryu died. His EX FHB really is his best AAA.

Never used his ultra, or Super. for some reason i couldn't get down charge supers on those sticks (honda,blanks,rog) unless I did them really slow. charge partioning wasn't happening for me :(.

ochio - EX has pretty good range. Yeah, c.lk,s.lp,c.mp tick ochio works really well. Only difference with EX is that it does more damage.

I am not sure, but I think fast hands cause alot of stun meter? I hit this guy with them several times, and he dizzied several times from them. Guess it makes up for the crappy damage.

His overhead?... is that the sumo stomp? you can cancel out of it with Ochio for mind games.

[The Mullah]

didn't realise you could cancel out of it....it may be pretty useful.

super and ultra were great anti air, really really easy to land and do huge damage. Also jump up roundhouse is fast, jump up fierce does big damage for a normal and is angled horizontally so it works well if you jump early. But yes, grounded normals appeared to suck, but i only tried chop more than once.

[SN3S]

Honda's always had trouble with turtle guile, or any other char. with projectiles that doesn't get in honda's face.

That being said, I love playing as honda and I plan to come home release.

Some Q's:

How are his jump ins? Does he still have the belly-flop like J.d+mk, and the j.lk that leads to tick throw ochio? Also, how good are his ticks? I'm hoping they're like 3rd strike Alex's.

How do you lead in/combo/link up super/ultra? Do they go past projectiles/have super armor?

Thanks for any answers.

[The Mullah]

Honda's always had trouble with turtle guile, or any other char. with projectiles that doesn't get in honda's face.

That being said, I love playing as honda and I plan to come home release.

Some Q's:

How are his jump ins? Does he still have the belly-flop like J.d+mk, and the j.lk that leads to tick throw ochio? Also, how good are his ticks? I'm hoping they're like 3rd strike Alex's.

How do you lead in/combo/link up super/ultra? Do they go past projectiles/have super armor?

Thanks for any answers.

His splash still works as a crossup but its hitbox isn't as good as it used to be in cvs2. I had some teething difficulty landing it vs guile but i imagine 5 minutes in training mode and more familiarity with character get up times would solve the problem.

Annoyingly, i didn't test out his short butt drop thing, is it down +lk or just plain old lk? May have been useful for skimming over fireballs and then ochio'ing. Sorry, i'm not a Honda player so i totally forgot.

Ticking is a breeze, but jumping out is a breeze too, so i would chop after a short to hit them as they jumped back. Didn't play alex in 3s, sorry.

Super and ultra have tons of invincibility and cruise through fireballs. i didn't use them in a combo because i would use them as anti air or when fireballed. They're not amazining fast though, so you'll need to be pretty quick to tag a guile through his sonic boom before he gets the chance to block

[SN3S]

His splash still works as a crossup but its hitbox isn't as good as it used to be in cvs2. I had some teething difficulty landing it vs guile but i imagine 5 minutes in training mode and more familiarity with character get up times would solve the problem.

Annoyingly, i didn't test out his short butt drop thing, is it down +lk or just plain old lk? May have been useful for skimming over fireballs and then ochio'ing. Sorry, i'm not a Honda player so i totally forgot.

Ticking is a breeze, but jumping out is a breeze too, so i would chop after a short to hit them as they jumped back. Didn't play alex in 3s, sorry.

Super and ultra have tons of invincibility and cruise through fireballs. i didn't use them in a combo because i would use them as anti air or when fireballed. They're not amazining fast though, so you'll need to be pretty quick to tag a guile through his sonic boom before he gets the chance to block

Aight, thanks for that. Sounds like he's been toned down a bit from II Turbo, but no worries.

And 3S Alex's tick are like always easy to land unless you time it wrong, other wise just get in there and j.lp > powerbomb away :lol:

[VruS]

c.mk is another good poke leading into ochio.

[koolaidsmile]

good stuff guys. looks like ill pick him being that there are a lot of boxer riders than honda. i just hope that there is a AA somewhere that we didnt realize yet. or a decent bnb. otherwise the opponent will always look for the tick command grab

[FlyMike]

Ok, so I'm gonna main E. Honda when this drops. I know their hasn't been a tier list or anything(or has there?) but from what's been gathered/ analyzed as of yet, how well doesn't Honda stack up with the other characters? How does he compare?

P.S. Koolaidsmile, lmfao at sig. Awesome. Reminds me of a convo I had with my gf about GGXXAC. ;-)

[CoMeBaCk386]

ok so philly got this and i am a honda player threw n threw... here what i have discovered..


1. his belly flop seems to trade with guiles flash kick i noticed i can hit people outta it if meated properly. even ex's too so that is a plus.

2. his ST ticks do work but a good player will have time to jump out if not done properly so just becareful on that.

3. ex ochio throw gives u a crap load of range on it.. very noticable and if u use it as a wake up will beat alomst anything. i have thrown people outta meatys like it was nothing.

4. although i havent tested out a combo into a super or ultra i dont see why it cant be done. ultra guys if u have it and ur opponent jumps RAPE THEM FOR IT.... FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!

5. if u notice u need to play a ranged char like shotos or guile best thing to do is have them knocked down n just bum rush them... up close honda wins just play smart n throw them all day.


that is all i have noticed here i will be playin at least 4 times a week ill try to get more info on him as soon as i can play again

[Dragonite]

anyone know what's a good way to capitalize on landing a focus attack? all i do is end up just ochio'ing them

[CoMeBaCk386]

that is the best unless u got ultra or super then just use that

[RagingStormX]

so ex oicho is wake up, thats gay.

[CoMeBaCk386]

its easy to get away from but it makes him more dangerous i think.... just somethin to look for thats all plus his but drop hits on way up n way down on ex

so becarefull with that


can anyone put up match videos with him please?

[crazydiamond]

anyone know what's a good way to capitalize on landing a focus attack? all i do is end up just ochio'ing them

Or you could dash forward and hit middle punch into hand slap.

[UltraDavid]

I don't remember where I heard this for some reason, but I heard that Honda's big combo is like some flavor of hands into some other flavor of hands into something else. Anyone else remember this or know what I'm talking about?

[Rojo]

I don't remember where I heard this for some reason, but I heard that Honda's big combo is like some flavor of hands into some other flavor of hands into something else. Anyone else remember this or know what I'm talking about?

Ex hands, EX hands, f+RH?

[CoMeBaCk386]

lol that works ill have to try it

[JoeMasters]

bump

Im loving the shit outta Honda in this game.

Anyone know if you can FADC the first hit of the ex butt slam into an ultra?

:pleased:

[CoMeBaCk386]

i havent tried that but i will tomorrow that is my goal to find a link to ultra

[JoeMasters]

Same. Im tryin some shit tommarow too. Ill share as well.:bgrin:

[JoeMasters]

Did really well with Honda today.

His overhead isnt as bad as I thought it was. If people see it coming I usually just ochio or cross up flying butt slam.


I couldnt combo the ultra with anything but the focus attack unfortunatly. But that combo still worked like a charm, and the crowd loved it.


Headbutt stuffs SO many things. And is usually safe. Great move to abuse, but not to the point where your predictable.

I kept trting hand slap combos but didnt get any goin.:xeye:

Overall, about 15 Honda games. 1 Lose. 3 Perfects.

Im lovin Honda baby :tup:

[koolaidsmile]

i tried to combo mp,mp into slap but its ot working. maybe ill try mp,mp headbutt

orochi is qcb+p wtf? does he have a super orochi?


we need to find an anti air for him already. i wish his dash was big like boxer then i would care : (

whats his over head? s. hp?

i like f.hk

[CoMeBaCk386]

his anti air is his lp.headbut lol where have u been its always that or better yet ultra that shit dont let them jump in on u lol.... no he doesnt have a super orochi throw.. and its half circle not quarter..... the mp mp headbut works if its ex headbutt i no that for fact... as for hand combo try doin J.mk (overhead) mp. ex hands
that works..

[Pimp Willy]

I've had no luck with Headbutts as Anti-Airs in this game at all, it seems to get beaten out by EVERYTHING. You pretty much need to EX a headbutt or butt slam as an anti-air, which makes meter REALLY important for honda.

[CoolWater]

Did really well with Honda today.

His overhead isnt as bad as I thought it was. If people see it coming I usually just ochio or cross up flying butt slam.


I couldnt combo the ultra with anything but the focus attack unfortunatly. But that combo still worked like a charm, and the crowd loved it.


Headbutt stuffs SO many things. And is usually safe. Great move to abuse, but not to the point where your predictable.

I kept trting hand slap combos but didnt get any goin.:xeye:

Overall, about 15 Honda games. 1 Lose. 3 Perfects.

Im lovin Honda baby :tup:

*RESPECT KNUCKLES*. Good to see some more Honda players out there.

I agree about the overhead. It's his best...if not only... mixup game, and its a funky one.

I prefer d.Forward to start handslap combos. I've also managed a lvl 3 focus~dash => d.Forward~EX palms~EX splash and it did great damage.

[JoeMasters]

EX Headbutts for anti air and wake up. regular headbutts and ex headbutts for zoning.

overhead is diagnol down foward roundhouse.

ex flying butt slam is good for anti airs as well.

ex ochio is quick as fuck.

Edit @ coolwater: thanks for the combo, ill have to try it soon.

[Gutter Trash]

what does his d.Forward look like?
is it the two hit mid kick? (SF2s before ST )
or is the low kick to the ankle? (ST)

and how about the rest of his normals? are they CVS2ish? SF2ish or STish?

[JoeMasters]

what does his d.Forward look like?
is it the two hit mid kick? (SF2s before ST )
or is the low kick to the ankle? (ST)

and how about the rest of his normals? are they CVS2ish? SF2ish or STish?

ankle kick. His Normals arent as good as they used to be in SF2/ST. I cant account for CvS2 because I didnt play much of that game with him. His b. roundhouse has really good reach and is a great poke. His cross up is still extremly easy to cross up with. I'll give more info when I get my ass back to chinatown.

[CoMeBaCk386]

i found a few things today.... his normal headbutt can combo into super!!! n it will def hit. that a big plus since they made him combo a normal headbutt really easy now.... the cancel overhead into orochi throw is godlike..... so far other then a saving attack no way to combo his ultra the search continues :(

[Leebee Link]

does

deep j.RH, land, ultra

work?

[CoMeBaCk386]

not that i have seen but it might just be mistimming i will try it this weekend i have off so ill be at the arcade all day in philly lol on saturday

[nohoho]

Sup Comeback

Comboing into ultra
Opponent near corner: rh butt drop -> ultra

Also
Midscreen: butt drop -> ex headbutt

EDIT: huh?

[Dime_x]

well i was playing at FFA today... got a bunch of 6 game limit streaks with honda, he's looking like he may be a solid second or third. only prob is he's somewhat boring at this point.
and he's weak to keepaway akuma and frieball turtles, as well as crappy against gief in general.


also he seems to have all the weaknesses he had in ST but very little to make up for it besides focus attack, ex moves and dash... which i guess may be enough.

AA's: i like ex butt slam, FA, and air to airs. close standing fierce worked very well for me today also as its an uppercut style move, of course the only time you want to use this is when your op jumps in from a respectably close range and assuming you have no charge or ex meter. also, and this is pure theory fighter, i think ex ochio might be an AA. un fortunately most of my opponents dont like to jump at me, but they do like to crossup and if ex ochio AA's crossups i'll be happy as hell.


general honda strategy: "get in and grab there ass" pretty much the same as gief but w/o the brain dead AA and ranged pokes, honda has one plus tho which is an easier to do command throw motion, which doesnt seem like much on paper but in practice helps immensely.

ticks: cr.jab>ochio, cr.short>ochio, st.jab>ochio, st.short>ochio, cr.jabx2>ochio, crossup splash>ochio etc. etc. etc.

note: your op can jump out of any one of these, or they can do a dp style move to gain throw invincibility, or they can jab you out of it if your timing isnt perfect and theres is.

generally speaking your op is gonna fall back on one of these 80% of the time they anticipate the ochio coming. so against jumpers if i have a charge and meter and i'm 100% sure they'll jump i do ex buttdrop, if any of the pre-requisites are off i'll just jump up fierce them in anticipation.

if they're an invincible mover i'll just block and punish.

and against jabbers i slap myself for having shitty timing or level 1 fadc them into ochio if there noob as fuck.


against the computer i found that honda can come up with some long block strings, i would only suggest these against real players if you wanna build meter, or you wanna be flashy, as honda should be going for ochio mixups as often as possible. finally these blockstrings and others like it might actually be useful against an opponent who exhibits better yomi than yourself: (your having trouble landing ochio after you get in)

all pokestrings assume honda has landed a blocked or hit crossup splash:

1. st. strong (2 hits), cr.jab (this is a three hit link!), st. strong (far, one hit) st.roundhouse.
(note) very pretty string, timing matters as far as making the roundhouse contact, all fluff after first 3 hits.

2. st. strong (2 hits), cr.jabxx fierce headbutt. (note) this is actually a combo.

3. cr.jab, st.short, st strong (far, one hit)xx fadc forward, st. strong (2 hits) cr.jab, st.forward.
(note) i'll lol if i ever see this make to a high level vid.



miscellaneous... blanka can punish torpedo with fierce ball ( but torpedo hits ball clean if both are extended in full animation), chun can punish torpedo with ULTRA (so abel and sagats ultras might be able to as well)

sorry if this is mostly scrub level shit but i'm just trying to keep some action in the thread, also i havent seen any vids where honda players mixup there ochio ticks/and or ochio attempts.

hopefully i can get some vid of my honda up so you guys can comment on him.




-dime

[JoeMasters]

2. st. strong (2 hits), cr.jabxx fierce headbutt. (note) this is actually a combo.

-dime

I love this combo.

When I go for ochio ticks against dragon punch happy shotos, ill us FA to eat the predicted DP and either EX whatever, or ultra. Worked a couple times so far.

[Dime_x]

When I go for ochio ticks against dragon punch happy shotos, ill us FA to eat the predicted DP and either EX whatever, or ultra. Worked a couple times so far.


yeah thats definitely good against ryu... ken and akuma... not so much. also even against ryu your setting yourself up to get thrown if they predict your reversal and counter your counter, whereas if i predict DP but guess wrong and just sit there blocking it's alot easier to break there throw attempt if i'm doing nothing rather than charging a focus attack.


but using an FA is a very aggressive response, and honda was made to be aggressive in this game, so your solution seems to fit in more with what hondas supposed to be doing in the first place. so i like it and may throw it in to pump the aggro 15%!

a nice reset situation occurs when a shoto does a hurricane that you duck, you can low jab>reset... and they land into your mixup game.



also, we should all be using hondas neutral throw when not ochioing.




-dime

[JoeMasters]

I only used he neutral after FAs when I didnt know about his combos.

Did anyone else beat out EX spds with EX ochio? I was doing it all day:xeye:

[Ex0dUs27]

what the hell are you supposed to do to stop aerial rushdowns?

[CoMeBaCk386]

ok i found this out the other day... his overhead (the one u can cancel into orochi throw) can stop abels ultra. i knocked him outta it clean just thought i throw that out their

[JoeMasters]

ok i found this out the other day... his overhead (the one u can cancel into orochi throw) can stop abels ultra. i knocked him outta it clean just thought i throw that out their

It also stops Sagats I think. I remembe I did it to someone as they were doing their ultra, and the majority of people were playing Sagat. I think it can do it to a lot of ultras

@ Exodus: I have A LOT of trouble against Rufus. His div kick eats EVERYTHING Honda has. Im still working on him.

For Claws, I try flying butt slams ex or normal. Or FA eat the first jump in and release into some nice ochio ticks.

I still have a way to go with Mr. Sumo:pleased:

[Akutabi Gamma]

What combos is Honda capable of doing in this game?
Can he do Super-->Ultra by any chance?

[CoMeBaCk386]

Sup Comeback

Comboing into ultra
Opponent near corner: rh butt drop -> ultra

Also
Midscreen: butt drop -> ex headbutt

EDIT: huh?

sup nohoho hows ur blanka in this game i can only imagine how discusting he is now

[JoeMasters]

What combos is Honda capable of doing in this game?
Can he do Super-->Ultra by any chance?

suprisingly he has a lot. You can combo mostly all of his normals and get creative. And you can most of the time end them with a fierce headbutt/EX headbutt.

[Rojo]

@ Exodus: I have A LOT of trouble against Rufus. His div kick eats EVERYTHING Honda has. Im still working on him.


EX AA will stop it, but thats it.

Someone try EX slaps, then ultra on a (hit) c. opponent.

In truth, you should never use his super, unless it's going to guarantee the K.O win. I always leave the stock for EXs.

[DuckHole]

This thread has me interested in maining Honda this time around.

[CoMeBaCk386]

i have linked alot into super as for usin the ex bars they fast to build wit honda im never worried about them..... :) HONDA A BEAST!!!!!!

[Pimp Willy]

Ok, so I have a video from last weeks FFA tourney where me and dime_X were playing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCGn-bszURo

At around 1:45, we've traded blocked headbutts, and I manage to reversal super and punish the blocked headbutt.

However, at around 4:05 in the same video, again I reversal ultra in the same situation and yet it was blockable.

I'm pretty sure I see a reversal message on both ultras, so any clues what caused this?

[UltraDavid]

Are you sure he was blocking the first time? Was the strength of headbutt he used the same both times?

[Pimp Willy]

He frequents this thread, so hopefully he drops in. He was surprised that the first time it hit him, when you look at the two videos he looks physically closer the first time. I think it might have been the strength of the headbutt, it's the only thing that makes sense, but I'm pretty sure if you were trying to punish a blocked headbutt you'd use Fierce.

[JoeMasters]

He frequents this thread, so hopefully he drops in. He was surprised that the first time it hit him, when you look at the two videos he looks physically closer the first time. I think it might have been the strength of the headbutt, it's the only thing that makes sense, but I'm pretty sure if you were trying to punish a blocked headbutt you'd use Fierce.

I think it was the strength of the headbutt too. What were you trying to do to get out of those ochio traps he got you in? what didnt work?

[Pimp Willy]

I was being stubborn and was trying to beat his ochio throw with my own : P

PROTIP: Don't try that at home

[Cronopio]

Oicho leaves you very close to your opponent, I really like that.

[K-Train]

Gotta love the S2k, NSX's, Teg's, and Civic's.

http://ekhatch.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/x8532a.jpg

ekhatch.wordpress.com/tag/jdm/

http://ekhatch.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/z007.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a232/1994Acura/DSC_0016.jpg

http://www.hondashowoff.com/profile_images/full/5964_1204634682.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j119/ripfriendship/830636807_90dfb1f18f_o.jpg

http://images.superstreetonline.com/eventcoverage/130_0207_027_z+2006_SEMA_auto_show+chargespeed_RHD _acura_integra_type_r_sedan.jpg

http://www.driftangel.eu/media/news/f.jpg

http://www.more-japan.com/files/d_2665.jpg

[JoeMasters]

Gotta love the S2k, NSX's, Teg's, and Civic's.

http://ekhatch.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/x8532a.jpg

ekhatch.wordpress.com/tag/jdm/

http://ekhatch.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/z007.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a232/1994Acura/DSC_0016.jpg

http://www.hondashowoff.com/profile_images/full/5964_1204634682.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j119/ripfriendship/830636807_90dfb1f18f_o.jpg

http://images.superstreetonline.com/eventcoverage/130_0207_027_z+2006_SEMA_auto_show+chargespeed_RHD _acura_integra_type_r_sedan.jpg

http://www.driftangel.eu/media/news/f.jpg

http://www.more-japan.com/files/d_2665.jpg


oh god...

[Reno]

I saw Kusumondo playing honda the other night and I saw him do EX hands, far s.rh into EX hands again and it all comboed. Might be something you Honda players will want to try. I don't really play honda at all but since I've been playing Taka in VF5 I've gotten interested in using him lol.

[vpt_whatup]

Great stuff in this thread. I just got back from playing for the first time and I did pretty well with Honda--a character that I rarely play even outside of SFIV. I was able to handle Guiles and Ryus AKA fireball spammers. My main strategy was to bait anti-airs and to even take some fireball hits just to introduce mind games. The only gripe that I have (from my first session) is that the command throw acts weird sometimes. The distance from your opponent is really tight. You can't be too close (it whiffs), but you can't be too far either.

I heard somewhere that there's rumored to be charge partitioning in SFIV. If so, has anybody figured out any Honda tricks with that?

EDIT: Just some random n00b questions: How do EX slaps work? I did not try them that much, but once I saw them go backwards. Do they follow the direction of the stick? What do different variations of the command throw do (Jab / Strong / Fierce)? Anything at all? Can you mash the "hug" throw for more hits in this game? Finally, does he have the command throw super in this?

I know that I sound really scrubby right now, but I'm in the whole SFIV "new player haze," lol.

[Gerjay_2001]

I've had no luck with Headbutts as Anti-Airs in this game at all, it seems to get beaten out by EVERYTHING. You pretty much need to EX a headbutt or butt slam as an anti-air, which makes meter REALLY important for honda.

lp headbutt with proper timing is one of the best anti-airs in this game, only air move I couldn't beat out with it to date was rufus' HK dive kick. Make sure you're using lp as anti-air and work out the timing. For cross-ups close s.fp or simply straight j.rh (the vertical splash) and of course basically any ex move you want. Don't forget, ex headbutt works against cross-ups as well, by just holding the charge until the cross-up does the motion for you and inputting the buttons (lp won't work in this situation since its not fast enough and the hitbox doesn't seem to start till later in the startup in this game compared to others). It was said before, but ex-ochio meaty cross-ups, you can't go wrong.

And the ultra punishing a headbutt was because of fp headbutt, not safe against a lot of characters, so zone better and use strong and light headbutts instead (pretty sure I've only been punished on fp headbutts).

Oh yeah... and for the gief match-up that I'm sure people have trouble with, watch out for being predictable with headbutts, since kkk smokes you clean on reaction. Also, s.hp chop can beat out a whiffed lariat basically all the time, get the timing down. If a gief sits just outside range and presses the lariat make sure to punish with s.hp, and not headbutt.

And umm... from a certain range, honda can jump in safely vs. everything outside of EX-moves with invincibility. His j.hp at the tip outprioritizes most anti-air moves in the game, at worst it will trade and it is a great trade due to honda's greater hp (or defense, I dunno how it works, but he certainly has more health than others like he did in CvS2) and the dmg on the hp.

He's a fun character, just don't get frustrated by your bad matchups (Sagat. . . and more sagat) I'm sure there's a better way around those fireballs that we don't know about yet. Its a shame you can't headbutt under the high ones or over the low ones, or whatever it was back in ST.

[Gerjay_2001]

EDIT: Just some random n00b questions: How do EX slaps work? I did not try them that much, but once I saw them go backwards. Do they follow the direction of the stick? What do different variations of the command throw do (Jab / Strong / Fierce)? Anything at all? Can you mash the "hug" throw for more hits in this game? Finally, does he have the command throw super in this?

EX slaps = hold the direction you want to move. I don't know about the varying ochio types in this game, just use ex :P You can't mash the bear hug in this game and there is no command throw super, sucks, but meh :S

Did anybody check to see if you can store the charge for his normal super ala ST, I know it goes through fireballs, but if it could hold the charge while walking it might actually be useful.

[Dime_x]

i honestly have no idea why that reversal ultra hit me once but not again...


i can only blame those shitty ass FFA controllers, which is wierd 'cause i've never had blocking issues with them in the past.

i didnt even twitch when i saw the ultra pop out the first time, i remember thinking "i'm safe, theres no way thats hitting me"

and then the randomness of street fighter ST 4 hits me...:looney:

i was nervous going into the game as i had no VS. honda experience and you can tell when i missed my first ochio by doing it too fast. which i NEVER do, as tick throw mixups are my primary game with honda at this point. i missed others as well but that was because willy walked out of throw range.


it was fun, willy outplayed me and deserved to win. looking forward to a re-match.




*edit* went back to FFA yesterday and i can confirm that the crouch block has gotten iffy on the sticks i was using.




-Dime

[kikkomanchow]

Standing HK hits low, abuse that.. pushes giefs away easy..
Foot stomp can cancel into Ex Super
After Ex Super, theres very little time for you to get punished, Ultra right after
Thousand hand slap is vega killer.. mask gone, claws gone..
Theres not much combos involved with Honda, Jump HK --> Low mid --> headbutt
Only thing worth canceling (maybe), Bellyflop --> Standing MP (2 hits) --> Thousand Hand Slap --> FC --> continue pressure game...

[CoMeBaCk386]

its easy to combo super in this game i actually was able to combo anti air lp headbutt into super (connects) and c.mk into super does work as well. its nuts that it works but it does work... i still cant combo ultra is their a video of this happening. please if someone can show it to me i can start to practice it i cant figure out what to do

[Pimp Willy]

Ok, so I have a video from last weeks FFA tourney where me and dime_X were playing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCGn-bszURo

At around 1:45, we've traded blocked headbutts, and I manage to reversal super and punish the blocked headbutt.

However, at around 4:05 in the same video, again I reversal ultra in the same situation and yet it was blockable.

I'm pretty sure I see a reversal message on both ultras, so any clues what caused this?

Ok, so I think I finally figured this out...

Seems like you recover faster from a high block than a low one, allowing you to reversal super and hit.

[catalyst_nc]

Hey all, I've updated the E. Honda guide on EventHubs.com.

http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/jul/07/e-honda-street-fighter-4-character-guide/

I've added in credit to you guys for your contributions. This is still coming together, and if you notice anything I should add or change, just let me know.

Thanks.

[Dime_x]

Ok, so I think I finally figured this out...

Seems like you recover faster from a high block than a low one, allowing you to reversal super and hit.




hmmmm. this makes a lot of sense, i can see this getting out of hand in years to come with certain things being punishable on high block only, also i wonder what impact, if any, this will have on bisons scissor game.



also i'm not playing honda much anymore as i find him BORING right now. (although i'll never tire of seeing people get ochio'd) the whole fact that he has such a hard time getting in, on top of the fact that his ochio's have to be mixed up once inside seems to leave him lopsided in the strategy department.

his up close poking/mixup counterhit throw game is awesome, but i still cant see why i should go for a poking game once inside ochio range... which is whats making him boring for me.



feels good to hit vipers,fuertes etc. with a fierce tho, shit is like getting hit by a sledgehammer.







-dime

[DagV]

if you trap someone in the corner without a propher anti air.. or maybe just a n00b who dosent know how to do one ..lol

can you abuse ochio throws just as easily as you could do in st ?

[deci]

if you trap someone in the corner without a propher anti air.. or maybe just a n00b who dosent know how to do one ..lol

can you abuse ochio throws just as easily as you could do in st ?

you can still tick throw...

but it's nowhere near as good as st because:

a. you can't store it

b. throw has a whiff animation now


so basically honda can no longer get safe multiple attempts at ochio by negative edging, and he also does not have the "automixup".

[CoMeBaCk386]

he really doesnt need it just once the animation comes out do a ex move it cancels the animation quicker just play cautiously wen tryin to do orochi throws

[Sephiroth73003]

hmmmm. this makes a lot of sense, i can see this getting out of hand in years to come with certain things being punishable on high block only, also i wonder what impact, if any, this will have on bisons scissor game.



also i'm not playing honda much anymore as i find him BORING right now. (although i'll never tire of seeing people get ochio'd) the whole fact that he has such a hard time getting in, on top of the fact that his ochio's have to be mixed up once inside seems to leave him lopsided in the strategy department.

his up close poking/mixup counterhit throw game is awesome, but i still cant see why i should go for a poking game once inside ochio range... which is whats making him boring for me.



feels good to hit vipers,fuertes etc. with a fierce tho, shit is like getting hit by a sledgehammer.







-dime Er ... Have you SEEN Honda's slap combo's? You can go normalxxLP slapsxx st. RH (1) or cr. MK (i think i've seen 2 different normals used based on distance)xx EX slaps and it deals A LOT like 30%-40% based on number of hits and character health. Yes you can link things after the slaps. I've only seen a couple honda's do it and i'm not to familiar with him but being able to land a hit into 30% is a lot of incentive to strike.

[Rioting Soul]

How many presses does it take to execute Hundred Hands?

[UltraDavid]

I've heard some people can do it with 5, but I haven't gotten out with fewer than 6.

[deci]

on that note, what's the most efficient way to do ex hundred hands?

can you piano the first 5 inputs, then just hit 2 or 3 buttons at the same time for the last input?

[ReNiC]

so I'm playing honda. how do I stop cross ups....

[Pimp Willy]

Don't get knocked down. Seriously, Honda can't deal with cross-ups, even worse than most of the cast. I've had minimal luck with EX-Butt Splash as an anti cross up.

[CoMeBaCk386]

best thing to do on wake up is a hk butt splash to get away quick from any type of cross up. it puts u away from the action or better yet hits the person wit a trade.... better to trade small then to get punish big... super cant be charged like in ST tried got crushed.... anyone playin honda that lives close to philly hit me up i will be around next week to get some work in with him i would love to play anyone just pm me n ill send my number out to get in touch peace

[Dime_x]

ex ochio demolishes crossups.








dime

[Dragonite]

ex ochio demolishes crossups.








dime

yeah i've noticed this too but usually when i do it it comes out randomly. when i'm playing and someone goes for the jump in i'm usually charging back/blocking and as soon as i want the ex head butt to come out i'll push forward and two punches. but when i get crossed up, i'll do the same motions (hold back to forward) and an EX ochio comes out instead.

do you have a more reliable way of doing it? b/c like i said mine is pretty much 50/50 either i'll do an ex headbutt and their crossup kicks me out of it or i'll ochio them

[Dasrik]

I don't know if people noticed yet, but Honda's jab headbutt still works as anti-air. The timing is just WAY earlier than usual. It's a bit of a bitch, but it works. Forget about reversing it on wake-up, though, it's not happening.

Also, a lot of his moves just seem faster. F+RH in particular is fast as hell.

[Rojo]

Quick Question, does EX Butt Splash have frame+ on block? If they try to attack after, go for a possible ultra set-up?

[Pimp Willy]

So far, I think its pretty safe to say that butt splash is at least even on block. As far as ultras, it's possible, but I've had really good luck saving it as an anti-air. You just have to time it really early, even earlier than for the jab headbutt (which I also started learning the timing for). I even ate (as in, caught them even though they're in the middle of my body) cross up shoto mk's with my ultra. When people got predictable with their fireball strings, ultra through and do some nice damage. Pretty sure I reversal ultrad a blocked blanka ball (from standing block) last night.

I played for a few hours last night, heres some of the things I learned personally which are probably pretty common knowledge to most people who've played.

-While its true honda can't turtle quite as well as in the past, that doesn't mean you need to be overly aggressive. Once you get a lead, make them do all the work to come back, use your tools to keep them out.
-S FP (overhead chop) seems to be decent as an anti air if they're coming in front of you, but as an anti-cross up or just a deep jump in, it doesn't work so well
-Forward + RH is a great long rang poke. Use it to punish whiffs, use it to zone, abuse it the best you can.
-LP Headbutt can indeed work as an anti-air, you just need to do it early. Whereas previous games tended to be invunerable on startup and then have it wear off fast, it seems as though in SF4 it starts vunerable, then reaches its invunerability a bit in. This makes it not so powerful on wakeup.
-If somebody whiffs a throw because they're just a bit too far, Ochio has enough range to punish the whiffed throw animation on reaction
-EX Butt Splash is my favorite move, it works in a ton of situations
-Against Zangief, use the Forward + Roundhouse to keep him back. Late headbutts can punish lariats, so bait those lariats and punish. LP Headbutt works good keeping him out.
-Against Fuerte, for the love of god don't get knocked down. I haven't found a good way to get him off you once you're up, though a decently timed EX Ochio could work I would think. A lot of times, my ex ochios were beating beaten out by his standing fierces which was frustrating
-Abel spends his entire match trying to rush you down to get into it with his rekka combos and command grabs. Play patient, don't try to rush him down, and make him get through your defenses to win.
-Fuck Sagat. Seriously. Fuck Sagat. If anybody has any tips for this matchup I'm all ears.

[Captain Ryu]

I played the other day against a honda player for like the 2nd time ever in sf4. Anyway after knocking me down he would stand next to me, do some sumo stomp move (taunt?), I'd sit and block because I didn't know wtf it was and I'd get ochoi grabbed out of it.

I only played the guys honda like 1 time and never got to see that shit again. Wtf is it? lol

[Pimp Willy]

Honda has an overhead now -> Down Forward + Roundhouse. He can cancel that overhead into any special move, i.e. ochio throw. So, its just one massive mind game. It gets beaten out really easily by any wakeup DP type moves, or even regular moves/throws, but you have to be able to read the intentions behind the Honda player.

[Rojo]

-Abel spends his entire match trying to rush you down to get into it with his rekka combos and command grabs. Play patient, don't try to rush him down, and make him get through your defenses to win.

I think Ochio is guaranteed if you block his Rekka series and he stops on the first or second hit. I notice Soo likes to use that s.mk with able then dash, maybe a EX ochio with make him think twice. Same applies with DP canceling shoto users.

[X-Static]

Vs Sagat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFUYo0DmSEE
Vs Gief
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RExfd0v1tZY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLc-TIaVxGo
Vs Balrog
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHp5hTcFdZg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eND3JqxBxeg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkqcvoXl2T0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iruC2kI4kmc

[X-Static]

More Sagat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VFICPbHUsk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02fumBdxfd8

[X-Static]

Where is everyone? Did people give up on Honda?

Anyways, the Honda player in those vids won that tournament. He beats legions of Sagats and Zangiefs. The finals ended up being Vega vs Honda, ironically enough.

http://www.youtube.com/user/watgeidotcom

[Dasrik]

Wow. That Honda is love, jumping out with fierce and tap tap tapping on that jab. Quite good, quite good!

I haven't given up on Honda at all, I just never really play anymore.

[kikkomanchow]

well.. heres more stuff i tried out..

1. thousand palm --> ex thousand palm connects
low lk, lk, lk, mk --> headbutt, some time change to:
low lk, lk, lk, mk (opponent blocks), thousand palm (whif), but if opponent does any sort of punch or kick it hits, connect with ex thousand palm

vs m.bison
stomp is annoying, focus cancel his 2nd hit

vs zangief
-extremely tough to beat.. stupid lariat 3 hit, and honda is so fat it hits even if he ducks.. Block all 3 hits, then punch with ex headbutt or standing HK
-always jump in on zangief using HP, and jump out using HK
-as shown in a video a few post above.. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RExfd0v1tZY) i did the stomp after the HK, slap misses, ex grab (works for some jump ins too) note that the stomp range is actually quite far.. more than the sprite

(yeah.. i have to figure out a lot of stuff, just to play on equal grounds with zangeif)

- jump in HP/HK, HK, HK (tons of damage)

more to come.. if i feel like it lol

[osek206]

Guile is a pain with his standing fierce? anti-air thing. Any ways to get in on him?

[CoMeBaCk386]

guile for me is easy.....

u can stuff or trade with his flash kick now and as long as u get in close to him. its game over he has basicly nothing to help himself out. u can bait all his ex moves and the trades favor honda. so just just in wit HP or butt drop and u r golden

[Pimp Willy]

The problem is, any competent guile will not let you get in on him. Jab sonic boom all day.

[Dasrik]

The problem is, any competent guile will not let you get in on him. Jab sonic boom all day.
That's not really a competent Honda to let that work on him. ._.

[Pimp Willy]

Any tips to get around jab sonic booms? I could sure use some : /

[Dasrik]

Any tips to get around jab sonic booms? I could sure use some : /
Repeated jab Sonic Booms can give anyone a hard time, but if he's doing them mindlessly, you can just call them and jumpkick him in the head. If his entire strategy against Honda is just jab Sonic Booms, he's kinda screwed (and you'd be surprised).

[Dragonite]

Repeated jab Sonic Booms can give anyone a hard time, but if he's doing them mindlessly, you can just call them and jumpkick him in the head. If his entire strategy against Honda is just jab Sonic Booms, he's kinda screwed (and you'd be surprised).

yeah that's only true if the guy playing guile is a total idiot. then yes of course it's easy to get in, but that's only if the guy doesn't know what he's doing. even against a scrubby guile though its still really hard for honda to get in.

a good guile that actually knows how to zone and space his sonic booms makes it extremely hard to mount any sort of offense. guiles can throw different speed sonic booms to really mess up your timing on your jump ins. the recovery on the SBs are so fast anyways that's it's hard to punish. guile has such good anti-air normals (cr. Fierce, toward + Fierce, DF + RH) that he can keep honda grounded. and while honda is really good with footsies, zoning, and poking (when grounded) you can't do that with guile when he constantly throws sonic booms.

Sonic Boom >>>>> all of hondas standing normals

honda is at a severe disadvantage against guile. if you can get the momentum gonig against guile be sure to not let go of it b/c you probably won't get another chance to get it back.

[Pimp Willy]

That's been my experience too.

Recovery on Sonic Boom is so fast, that you can't punish one with a jump in, and you're most likely eating an anti-air. You have to jump BEFORE he does a sonic boom, to even have a chance to get in, and in that case he can bait a jump and anti-air you. You have to get lucky to get in, and once in you have to repeatedly guess properly to keep the pressure on. It's definitely a bad, bad matchup for honda.

[CoMeBaCk386]

back+hk is great to zone with guile sonic booms u could do that in st honestly u are making him alot better then he really is. guile players are good against honda be he is not unbeatable and if u time buttdrop right u can go threw the sonic booms anyway

[Dragonite]

okay let's just get this straight there is no toward or back +RH it's just his stand far RH. and how does that help zone with guile? he can just toss sonic booms from the opposite end. what's stand RH going to do? fact is he doesn't have to come to you ever in this match up to win, but the only way for honda to win is to get close which is super hard to do

now that that is settled no we are not making him better than he already is. It's infinitely easier for guile to keep you away and off him then it is for honda to constantly apply pressure to stay close. the guile player needs to be a complete idiot to lose to honda.

so what if you can butt slam through his sonic booms? recovery is so fast anyways that he'd block it anyway. if you whiff the butt slam he either throws you away or sweeps you and continues his SB barrage.

if you do manage to finally get close it's not like guile can't do anything about it. barring the corner he can also just keep jumping back and maintaining his space. you are underestimating how good guile is in this match up.

and none of us have stated that he is unbeatable, but you have to realize that it is damn hard matchup to win.

[Dasrik]

I guess I'm still not used to SF4; of course, I haven't played it very often. SB recovery is really that fast now? Man. I need to play it again this weekend.

But yeah, I wouldn't use butt slams to go over SBs in any case. I was just saying if his only strat is keeping you out and he doesn't have any tricks, then you can outplay him. I guess that goes without saying, though. :/

[CoMeBaCk386]

ok first off u wiff butt drop or hit n get blocked u can ex orochi throw (it does work) even normal cuz its not expected. and u jump in wit hp over sonic boom it trades so if u still cant find a way in i suggest u find another way to play guile cuz if ur loosing to him its bad..... as for the back hk its his long kick poke and yes it is good wen u get in range to trip him up . it second guesses the sonic boom. thats just from my point of view

[Dragonite]

okay have you ever whiffed a butt slam? if you're close enough to ochio theyre close enough to just sweep you. and if he blocks it he can just throw you right after for free. recovery on butt slam is god fucking awful if you whiff or if it's blocked.

and what's with this not expected stuff? stop thinking the other player is an idiot. were not talking about how to play against noobs. competent guiles will not be caught in something so obvious.

and no the only way to trade with SBs is if you jump in before he throws it out. as honda you have to know exactly what he's going to do in order for you to counter. all guile has to do is wait, he just needs to react to what you do. he's sees you jump in he just blocks or he can cr. fierce you. you make it seem like all guile can do is throw projectiles. anyway like i said he can sit and turtle all day b/c guiles booms >>>>> own hondas standing normals and his anti-air normals keep you from taking to the air

you need to stop giving advice about how to beat noob guiles b/c we all know how to do that. your strats on how to beat guile will not work against top players that know what they're doing and know the matchup well

and for the last time back+RH is the same as neutral RH is the same as toward+RH. it's the same fucking move. it's just his far standing RH. and it does not second guess his sonic boom. all he has to do is continue to walk back or jump back and toss another boom and oops there you go you just lost your positioning so much for trying to "trip him up."

you're playing scrubs. all the "tips" you're telling us don't work against people that are smart. you should stop posting. "that's just from my point of view"

[kikkomanchow]

guile honda:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZKm_1H60HY - Focus Cancel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhKclCVBYGM - Butt slam action

honda matches in general:
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?search_query=honda&user=watgeidotcom

[Footsy Bebop]

are these watgei matches japanese or british?

[kikkomanchow]

watgei matches.. are from toronto, canada (@ lovegety station)

[CoMeBaCk386]

taken from kikkomanchow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhKclCVBYGM - Butt slam action


seems like it works well idk wat ur problem is i have played pretty good players so if i were u i watch who ur attempting to call a scrub

[kikkomanchow]

I actually have tons more problem with a good zangief (too fat for lariats), dictator and sagat, rather than guile..

[Dasrik]

So, you can use this Focus Cancel to go through FBs? I'm a little confused about the new gameplay elements, sorry.

Also have to say that video doesn't make a very good case for buttslams being the answer in the Guile matchup. It hurt the Honda player quite often more than it helped him. I mean... he literally did EX buttslam just about every time after a regular buttslam was blocked. It really could have come back to bite him. It just goes back to the point made by other players in this thread that you got to take a lot of chances.

[Dragonite]

So, you can use this Focus Cancel to go through FBs? I'm a little confused about the new gameplay elements, sorry.

Also have to say that video doesn't make a very good case for buttslams being the answer in the Guile matchup. It hurt the Honda player quite often more than it helped him. I mean... he literally did EX buttslam just about every time after a regular buttslam was blocked. It really could have come back to bite him. It just goes back to the point made by other players in this thread that you got to take a lot of chances.

exactly. all those butt slams were really risky. none of those things the honda player was doing was really safe. the guile just didn't know how to adapt to it. butt slam to another butt slam isn't the safest thing to do against anyone. but to unsuspecting people it works really well. if you do the second butt slam after the first is blocked certain characters can just shoryu after or throw out a well timed poke and you lose your momentum. butt slam is basically like alex's foot stomp move in 3S. if you don't know what to do you eat a lot of them, but if you do know what's up then it's not that hard to get around. it's a gimmick and you can't base your whole game around throwing butt slams and EX ones.he doesn't have infinite EX meter he can't EX butt slam all day

pretty much all those blocked butt slams are free throws for guile anyway. the recovery is that bad. all the guile player has to do is just wait and turtle against honda it's that simple.

the first vid you posted didn't help your case either. the guile player was a complete scrub. i don't see how honda has a hard time against zangief at all. dictator isn't that bad either. and sagats fireball traps are easier to get around because the recovery is longer so he can't just mindlessly throw them out.

if you're having more problems with those 3 and not guile than you're NOT playing GOOD guiles. and never have i said he was unbeatable or anything like that. but you're in denial if you think that this matchup is in hondas favor.

taken from kikkomanchow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhKclCVBYGM - Butt slam action


seems like it works well idk wat ur problem is i have played pretty good players so if i were u i watch who ur attempting to call a scrub

No. cali has the best players. and i've played against most of them. but that's neither here nor there. fact remains half the stuff you post is wrong/stupid. Stop posting bad info

[osek206]

^Yep while playing I realized the Ex butt slams are a gimmick, that do work really well but as GOOD players adjust they will spot and punish on site. Guile's a pain and Balrog is starting to piss me off. His anti-air punch is similar to Guiles so jump in's are risky so are ex torpedo's.

I was watching the videos posted and It looks like this match consist of alot of trading hits on honda's favor. Anyone tips with aganist Rog?

[Pimp Willy]

What, you mean Philly isn't on the cutting edge of SF4 skills? lol

Anyhow, I agree with some of that guile play not being very good at all. When I play Honda vs Ryu against some of my friends, I can keep up decently. When I play Honda vs Valle's Ryu, it's a different story. But what we're saying is you take a high level Guile against a high level Honda, the match is probably like 7-3 in Guiles favor IMO. Not unbeatable, but you've got a lot going against you.

Watching that vid, round 2 is typically how a guile vs honda match plays out. That honda managed to get a few hits in, and some ochio throws -- the fact they do so much damage is what even gives honda a chance in this matchup. But more often than not, the Guile is not going to get outguessed as much as he did in that match.

As far as Ex butt slams... that's my biggest vice right now. It's pretty much my go to move, because its so awesome, but I do it TOO much right now so it comes back to bite me in the ass. I really need to work on that.

Also, focus attacks do absorb a single hit (so long as the move isn't an "armor breaking" move). You take the damage, but then slowly regenerate it back. If you get hit, you lose all the energy that has the potential to recover. On the plus side, it also generates Ultra bar. So basically, if they're going to camp you with fireballs, you can absorbs one or two, then keep jumping over them until you regenerate and be ahead in the Ultra game. A lot of times, this will bring your opponent to you in an attempt to capitalize on this "free damage," but then the plus side is they're no longer in the gameplan that totally shuts down Honda.

Also, Dragonite, do you play at AI? That's the only other person I've seen play Honda around here, other than Dime_X who's moved onto Chun.

[kikkomanchow]

I find focus attack can be considered against guile, since guile's pokes are non-connecting. For example.. you can focus attack and absorb one of his pokes (gotta time it really quick), and let go as soon as you absorb it, so if guile execute the next poke he gets stunned instantly, dash in and occhio.

works well with people who constantly pokes.. even better with newbies who use low.HK (block first hit, focus 2nd hit)..

but then again.. the guiles i'm facing are all newbs..

[Dragonite]

Also, Dragonite, do you play at AI? That's the only other person I've seen play Honda around here, other than Dime_X who's moved onto Chun.

yes i do play at AI. i go all the time, but i haven't been in the past week or so. i'm the skinny filipino guy with glasses. do you go?

i hardly ever see any serious honda players so it sucks. i have to pretty much learn everything on my own.



but then again.. the guiles i'm facing are all newbs..

yes they are.

[Pimp Willy]

I've only been up to AI once, I tend to try to hit up Super where the crowds are smaller. I was there the other night, like two Thursdays ago I think, playing Honda. Kept getting my ass handed to me by Valle. I think we may have actually done a Honda mirror match.

My main problem is the Japanese sticks, I'm white so I'm used to American sticks and I way over compensate my motions, causing random jumps and what not : /

[JoeMasters]

Should be posting frame data for you Honda lovers tommarow.

[Dentron]

My main problem is the Japanese sticks, I'm white so I'm used to American sticks and I way over compensate my motions, causing random jumps and what not : /

qfe. jap sticks are the way of the future. having giant hands doesnt help either.

[Dasrik]

Well, played at AI, got my ass handed to me, and discovered a few things.

EX ochio is not a good wakeup. I did it, saw the yellow flashy things, and got punched. PUNCHED.

Isn't Honda supposed to be, like, really big and fat? So WHY is it so easy to cross him up? Dx

It's been mentioned I think, but it bears repeating. Torpedo is hella unsafe.

My Honda needs work. :(

[Rojo]

My main problem is the Japanese sticks, I'm white so I'm used to American sticks and I way over compensate my motions, causing random jumps and what not : /

I usually can do fine on hori, but when I was at SDCC, I know what you must go through. I couldn't get charge supers out when I wanted on random jump ins.

My Honda needs work. :(

Honda just isn't very good in general.

[MyNameIsPaullee]

HAHAHA I just got back from playing and I did crossup froward into firece HH's and it hit for 11 hits!!!!

[MiyagiShin X]

I really am starting to think honda is at a way disadvantage. People Like Sagat Run him for free... He get Kept away all day. And when I do get close... o no its Standing roundhouse. Seriously any advice on this match up, I feel like its 2 - 8 sagats favor... Not only against sagat but other shotos it feels like 3 -7 in shoto favor. Honda gets crossed up for free and I cant do anything on wake up.

Anyway Advice/ Strategies? Im starting to feel like Honda is bad...

[CoMeBaCk386]

wake up butt drop to stop or trade

[vpt_whatup]

My entire game revolves around landing command (Ochio?) throw. I don't mean literally throwing it out non-stop. It's just my main goal throughout the match. I barely even mix it up since it's unbreakable.

Is that a bad strategy? I'm not being a n00b here, I really want to know.

MiyagiShin X: You're right that he is still weak against fireballs. However, SFIV seems to have more trades for him rather than complete beat-outs. Therefore "butt-drop" is a little more effective than before. His jump along with his jumping moves are also a bit better. I was able to beat a Guile player consistently just by letting him get careless and comfortable with fireball spamming. I've only played the game for one three-hour sitting so I can't help much.

[mattpsx2]

I don't know if you guys know about this, but gief's lariat beats out honda's ultra. It's pretty ridiculous lol.

[Dasrik]

Ochio is not as great as hyped. It's great in close games to throw out, sure, but... as I said, if you try to wake up with it, it's a quick way to die.

[MiyagiShin X]

NO wake up Ochio is not really a good option.

Ex But slam easily gets meatied or in most cases trades.

You cant really put out any pokes.

So any Ideas people. . .

[Dandy J]

Have you guys seen how much headbutt xx super does? It's pretty ridiculous. Happens here about 10 minutes in: http://kakugm.blog27.fc2.com/blog-entry-23.html?sm5184528

If it always does that much, I'd say Honda might be best off reserving his meter for super, as good as ex headbutt is.

[kikkomanchow]

wow.. i didnt get to pull one of those headbutt xx super yet.. i'm so gonna try it :)

[Sanchez]

There's this trick in the guide that suggests charging focus after his bear hug throw.

Assuming I'm reading this shit correctly--His bear hug allows him to move 81 before his opponent. His lvl3 focus charges in 65! Easy set up for meaty focus.

Anyone fuck around with this yet?

[osek206]

^Wierd bear hug does give him lots of time. That (headbutt xx super) did major dmg. I've seen it twice in some videos so far. Ex is really strong for Honda though, not sure where I stand on it.

[Pimp Willy]

I must say, after last night, I fell in love with head butt super. Its just so hard to manage to get a full super bar as honda.

[kikkomanchow]

I must say, after last night, I fell in love with head butt super. Its just so hard to manage to get a full super bar as honda.

Vs Akuma.. one super, one ultra.. K O

[X-Static]

http://blog-imgs-27.fc2.com/t/o/k/tokkablog/play.html?id=sm5293326
http://blog-imgs-27.fc2.com/t/o/k/tokkablog/play.html?id=sm5294125

Pretty good Honda in these vids. Good use of neutral jumping fierce.

[uh_ooh]

i js wish there were some good honda videos out there...there are very few (if any...i think im the only one serious) honda players at my spot...so im tryna figure out stuff
im pretty sure this is wat i saw/did (in corner)
light headbutt then ultra...it happened really fast and obviously didnt mean to do it..bt next time i go ill try and do some sort of cancel from his headbutt in an ultra or super



the main thing im havin a problem w/ is his pokes...i wish i cud figure out a nice 3 hit js w pokes that way i cud connect into a headbutt or something/
if anybody knows of some...please share!

[kikkomanchow]

headbutt x super :
back 2 second, forward punch, back, forward punch.. pretty easy to do

in air hk (hold back) --> c.mk --> forward + punch (3 hit)
in air hk --> s.mp (1 to 2 hit) --> mash punches..
in air hk--> s.mp (1 to 2 hit) --> mash punches --> SADC --> occhio

might work:
in air hk (hold back) --> s.mp (1 to 2 hit) --> mash punches --> SADC --> forward punch

[Pimp Willy]

I personally prefer jumping in with FP, I like the angle a lot better. If I dont have a charge ready, Jump in FP -> Standing RH is a solid 3 hit combo.

[kikkomanchow]

VS high air priority character - jump with MP (the chop is amazing) or Straight up jump with HP
VS anyone else - jump with HP
cross up with jump MK

[esc]

might work:
in air hk (hold back) --> s.mp (1 to 2 hit) --> mash punches --> SADC --> forward punch

any confirm on this?

[Pimp Willy]

any confirm on this?

I wouldn't waste a FADC on that. You can link a Round House off Hundred Hand Slap, and save yourself half a super bar that you can use for Anti-Air LP headbutt -> super

[kikkomanchow]

if headbutt cannot link to ultra I wonder if ex headbutt can.. Kindda like how balrog does it..back Firward back 2punch forward 3punch

[Pimp Willy]

Sadly, the Kara ex into ultra only works on EX moves with armor properties... and EX headbutt doesn't have any : (

Edit: maybe I'm thinking of a different technique

[Pimp Willy]

http://kakugm.blog27.fc2.com/blog-entry-23.html?sm5320326

At about 15:00, theres a jumping RH, c.mp (?), hundred hand slap xx Super. Pretty nifty easy way to hit confirm even if you suck at it

[esc]

also from that vid, how useful are whiffed ochio's to build meter from afar?

seems pretty safe if you throw one in after a knockdown that you don't follow up on or if they are doing something stupid that you aren't close enough to punish.

[kikkomanchow]

http://kakugm.blog27.fc2.com/blog-entry-23.html?sm5320326

At about 15:00, theres a jumping RH, c.mp (?), hundred hand slap xx Super. Pretty nifty easy way to hit confirm even if you suck at it

Yeah.. thats a really nice combo, i wonder if it works with just headbutt (non-super)

also from that vid, how useful are whiffed ochio's to build meter from afar?

seems pretty safe if you throw one in after a knockdown that you don't follow up on or if they are doing something stupid that you aren't close enough to punish.


That whiff seems to build up bar.. if the super is that useful for honda.. id definitely do some of them

[esc]

Hell even for EX usage it's not bad. While not as safe as geif lariats at match start, at least it seems better than far j.hands.

Quick question about frame data, if ochios have a 6 frame start up and 41 frame recovery, does that mean a whiff takes 47 frames in total?

[nUC]

http://kakugm.blog27.fc2.com/blog-entry-23.html?sm5320326

At about 15:00, theres a jumping RH, c.mp (?), hundred hand slap xx Super. Pretty nifty easy way to hit confirm even if you suck at it


that's BANANAS. so stoked for this shizzzz. this thread delivers