So NASA found water on Mars.

[The Chief]

Or frozen/sticky ice that was eventually thawed.


TUCSON, Ariz. -- Laboratory tests aboard NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander have identified water in a soil sample. The lander's robotic arm delivered the sample Wednesday to an instrument that identifies vapors produced by the heating of samples.

"We have water," said William Boynton of the University of Arizona, lead scientist for the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer, or TEGA. "We've seen evidence for this water ice before in observations by the Mars Odyssey orbiter and in disappearing chunks observed by Phoenix last month, but this is the first time Martian water has been touched and tasted."

With enticing results so far and the spacecraft in good shape, NASA also announced operational funding for the mission will extend through Sept. 30. The original prime mission of three months ends in late August. The mission extension adds five weeks to the 90 days of the prime mission.

"Phoenix is healthy and the projections for solar power look good, so we want to take full advantage of having this resource in one of the most interesting locations on Mars," said Michael Meyer, chief scientist for the Mars Exploration Program at NASA Headquarters in Washington.

The soil sample came from a trench approximately 2 inches deep. When the robotic arm first reached that depth, it hit a hard layer of frozen soil. Two attempts to deliver samples of icy soil on days when fresh material was exposed were foiled when the samples became stuck inside the scoop. Most of the material in Wednesday's sample had been exposed to the air for two days, letting some of the water in the sample vaporize away and making the soil easier to handle.

"Mars is giving us some surprises," said Phoenix principal investigator Peter Smith of the University of Arizona. "We're excited because surprises are where discoveries come from. One surprise is how the soil is behaving. The ice-rich layers stick to the scoop when poised in the sun above the deck, different from what we expected from all the Mars simulation testing we've done. That has presented challenges for delivering samples, but we're finding ways to work with it and we're gathering lots of information to help us understand this soil."

Since landing on May 25, Phoenix has been studying soil with a chemistry lab, TEGA, a microscope, a conductivity probe and cameras. Besides confirming the 2002 finding from orbit of water ice near the surface and deciphering the newly observed stickiness, the science team is trying to determine whether the water ice ever thaws enough to be available for biology and if carbon-containing chemicals and other raw materials for life are present.

The mission is examining the sky as well as the ground. A Canadian instrument is using a laser beam to study dust and clouds overhead.

"It's a 30-watt light bulb giving us a laser show on Mars," said Victoria Hipkin of the Canadian Space Agency.

A full-circle, color panorama of Phoenix's surroundings also has been completed by the spacecraft.

"The details and patterns we see in the ground show an ice-dominated terrain as far as the eye can see," said Mark Lemmon of Texas A&M University, lead scientist for Phoenix's Surface Stereo Imager camera. "They help us plan measurements we're making within reach of the robotic arm and interpret those measurements on a wider scale."

The Phoenix mission is led by Smith at the University of Arizona with project management at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., and development partnership at Lockheed Martin in Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus in Denmark; the Max Planck Institute in Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute.

For more about Phoenix, visit:

http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/news/phoenix-20080731.html

Could Mars theoretically be what Earth will be 50 millon years from now (if not sooner)?

[mylthazz]

oR COULD WE BE WHAT MARS WILL BE IN 50 MILLOION YEARS

i HEARD THEY FOUND WATER ON ONE OF THE MOONS OF ANOTHER PLANET TOO

THIS IS GETTING RIDICULOUS

[EveryFlowerFlow]

oR COULD WE BE WHAT MARS WILL BE IN 50 MILLOION YEARS

i HEARD THEY FOUND WATER ON ONE OF THE MOONS OF ANOTHER PLANET TOO

THIS IS GETTING RIDICULOUS

that's one hell of a hack you got there. how are you still posting? :looney:

[Demon Dash]

Wow! Find of the decade...

[MaxVandalism315]

get hyped?

[goodm0urning]

Begin the terraforming now.

To be semi-serious, this is news is the pimp shit, especially if they discover organic material native to Mars. We could learn a thing or two about how life developed here, as well as how it might be (or might have) developed there.

[dann]

Wonder where I'll be in 50 million years... :cybot:

What's even more amusing is astrobiology; the study of "we can't figure out what happened on Earth, so lets turn to space!"

[DarthTrey]

Zomg now i can have cold on mars!!!!

[BudaFuka]

This is pretty big.

[TheSix]

Now all they need to find is sugar and purple.

Then we can make some intergalactic DRANK!

[goodm0urning]

Now all they need to find is sugar and purple.

Then we can make some intergalactic DRANK!Dude, it's Mars. Why waste time on purple drank when there's red all over the place?

[FaceMeAndBeBroken]

Cant wait till they find some organism that slips past, and kills everyone on Earth, or overtakes earth's flora and fauna. It will be cool. Put your dog down because some microscopic indigenous Marsian lifeform is eating its brain. Yeah.

[King9999]

Get your ass to Mars.

[Dios <-X->]

Get your ass to Mars.

i laughed

[Raziel321]

Now all they need to find is sugar and purple.

Then we can make some intergalactic DRANK!

:rofl::rofl::rofl: good one

[ShawnLoganownzu]

sweet, now go find more oil.

[BIG BAD MOG]

Ya know what else would be nice there? Air.

[Wild Kitty]

How long until we get Mars bottled water?

I imagine 50k an ounce is about appropriate. Will be all the rage in Hollywood.

[Ki Shima]

Ya know what else would be nice there? Air.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=atDPilGVp1I

[EveryFlowerFlow]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=atDPilGVp1I



:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[felineki]

Could Mars theoretically be what Earth will be 50 millon years from now (if not sooner)?With greenhouse gases and such, I think we'd actually end up more like Venus.

[fishjie]

Begin the terraforming now.

To be semi-serious, this is news is the pimp shit, especially if they discover organic material native to Mars. We could learn a thing or two about how life developed here, as well as how it might be (or might have) developed there.

dude if we found organic material native to mars and could prove it wasn't caused by contamination, that would be a huge blow to all the worlds religions. YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[Einlanzer]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=atDPilGVp1I

omg hahahaha :rofl::rofl::rofl:

[BlodiaVulcan5]

... so whens the next flight to Mars?

[Diek Stiekem]

It's a trap!

[The Chief]

Ya know what else would be nice there? Air.

Water contains oxygen. Maybe in a couple hundred million years after the sun gets a bit bigger, that ice on mars will melt and send some of that oxygen into it's atmosphere! Yay!

...while destroying life on Earth with the severe heat. No!

[Epicurus]

dude if we found organic material native to mars and could prove it wasn't caused by contamination, that would be a huge blow to all the worlds religions. YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

what, why?




hell, if aliens came to earth and showed us how they genetically modified apes to make humans it wouldn't be a blow to the major world religions...they'd find a way to incorporate that into their belief system or misinterpret it and say its false or just not believe it at all and call the aliens tools of satan

[The Chief]

if aliens came to earth and showed us how they genetically modified apes to make humans it wouldn't be a blow to the major world religions...

No but a large percentage of them would vanish and switch to scientism.

[comoesa]

dude if we found organic material native to mars and could prove it wasn't caused by contamination, that would be a huge blow to all the worlds religions. YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

You do know that aliens show up in most major religions?

[Epicurus]

No but a large percentage of them would vanish and switch to scientism.

you act as if people base their religions on reason/evidence as opposed to faith/feeling/authority.

organic matter on mars or aliens coming to earth don't negate their beliefs in an afterlife, God, scripture, etc...it's just another thing they will have to adapt their beliefs to, or simply ignore

[bokchoy]

Fucking Martians think they're so great. We've had water for millions of years.

[fishjie]

You do know that aliens show up in most major religions?

eh? such as?


you act as if people base their religions on reason/evidence as opposed to faith/feeling/authority.

organic matter on mars or aliens coming to earth don't negate their beliefs in an afterlife, God, scripture, etc...it's just another thing they will have to adapt their beliefs to, or simply ignore

no it'd be another huge blow, just like evolution, heliocentrism, and the big bang.

simply put, the desert dogmas believe that humans were a special creation, made just by god, who play an important role in the world. the existence of aliens would do a lot to negate that.

[Epicurus]

no it'd be another huge blow, just like evolution, heliocentrism, and the big bang.



oh ya, those have had a huge impact...:rolleyes:


they have had effects on religion of course, but nothing really that big

core beliefs remain the same and there are more believers than ever now


I just recently talked to some catholics who had no problem with the idea of aliens in space or coming to earth in the future, they said their beliefs wouldn't be challenged at all, in fact they think it is probable that god has created aliens and that some of them might even not be fallen and in need of salvation - like angels...

muslims i've talked to have said similar things...

[fishjie]

they have had a huge impact. roughly 600 years ago, desert dogma books were considered an authority on history and science. now, its pretty much been made clear that they are the exact opposite of authority. very few ppl today believe earth was created in 6000 years - a few centuries ago you would have been burned alive for disputing it.

fact of the matter is, as scientific discovery progresses and advances, religion shrinks, retreats and retcons its beliefs.

that humans are a special creation is a huge core belief of the desert dogmas. thats why a lot of them are insulted by evolution because it means they are "descended from apes". what would happen if a super-advanced-vastly-superior-in-intellect alien species made contact with us - and this species had outgrown their dependence on religion?

[goodm0urning]

Holy religion talk, Batman...

[Septimus Prime]

Hey. No religious discussion.

[Dhalsimowns]

This is why I believe there is life elsewhere in the universe. There HAS to be.

I had this discussion with my 6th grade science teacher. I said, there are infinite jabillion other planets out there, and you think we are the ONLY ones with life.
To his credit he said no, UNTIL we find other wise. Nice angle but I believe it was too skeptical. Now look at me, years later, still holding my argument strong, and out of the inifinite-jabillion the one right next to us has water. Take that, Mr. Castelo.

[Ki Shima]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pKniI_vNnPs&feature=related

it's harry henderson!!!!

dhalsim theres life on the darkside of the moon!! theyre everywhere! :rofl:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nTw2ZE4cljc

[FurryCurry]

Has alluded to the fact that just because a rock in space has water doesn't mean that it will have life too?

And actually it seems the amount of religious people is on the rise or staying steady.

[white shadow]

Well it was known that there was frozen water at the north pole of Mars so this doesn't come at a big surprise. It's exciting nonetheless.

Getting there will be probably equally as hard as attempting to terraform.

[DS]

So, will there be 3-breasted women?

[G.O.T]

Great find if it's really true. Save up ya bread. Evo Finals 2K12 @ dark side of MARS BEECHES!!!

[FurryCurry]

Well it was known that there was frozen water at the north pole of Mars so this doesn't come at a big surprise. It's exciting nonetheless.

Getting there will be probably equally as hard as attempting to terraform.

You really think that getting to Mars (with humans) will be as hard as attempting to transform a planet's atmosphere so that it's suitable for life? Maybe you know more than I do but I think the latter will be the hardest and honestly the least feasible. I mean seriously... We'll have corporations setting up shop on mars before that mofo is ever terraformed. How can you even terraform a planet?


Great find if it's really true. Save up ya bread. Evo Finals 2K12 @ dark side of MARS BEECHES!!!

Um. Well see, the thing is, once you get there, you'll have no 'earth' as yo know it, to return to. Go Mayans!

Anyway I still want my 40mph self-balancing electric unicycle.

[Ki Shima]

i thought this was interesting :wonder:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2mHe211mLV0&feature=related

[white shadow]

You really think that getting to Mars (with humans) will be as hard as attempting to transform a planet's atmosphere so that it's suitable for life? Maybe you know more than I do but I think the latter will be the hardest and honestly the least feasible. I mean seriously... We'll have corporations setting up shop on mars before that mofo is ever terraformed. How can you even terraform a planet?



The long term cosmic radiation from the sun and violent collisions with random space debris is what prevents a safe journey. The only reason why we have had such a relatively ok time in space is because we are protected by the earth's magnetic field which dissipates most of the cosmic radiation, and even then it's still dangerous. The use of dense materials like lead to counteract the radiation it would also be problematic for transport/installation and would require the craft to have much more thrust than the lightweight titanium based shuttles and rockets.

The psychological training needed for a yearlong voyage (maybe longer depending on the craft speed and duration spent near/on the planet) would also be intense and the atrophy of muscle and bone under true zero G (astronauts in orbit are still experiencing gravity and are actually "falling" towards earth at a slow rate.) would be significant, not even accounting the DNA destroying radiation.

This are just a few reasons why going to Mars would be a hurdle. Although in the future I see it as technological possibility, it will require much more advanced devices and discoveries than what we currently have. Psychologically, I think a Mars astronaut needs to be in more faux-terrestrial settings rather than train for something as mind-altering and potentially self-destructive like adapting to a long term journey billions of miles from Earth.

[R.P.D rookie]

Aside from the discovery, I think the fact that humans have the technology to send a probe to another planet to examine its conditions is quite amazing. NASA launched a space probe called New Horizons, which is destined to fly close by Pluto for studying. It was launched in eithere 2004 or 2006, is the fastest traveling rocket created by man however it won't make contact until 2015 or so.

The thing about New Horizons was that NASA calculated the use of several planets gravity to help sling shot the probe and accelerate its speed to get it to Pluto as fast as possible. It sling shots around Jupiter first and then around Saturn a few years later, then it's next destination is Pluto.

I find it amazing scientist/engineers were able to calculate with such precision on such a massive distance how things will work.

[catchafire]

Now we need to build mechs so I can sign up for the earth alliance defense military.

[Azrael]

This is why I believe there is life elsewhere in the universe. There HAS to be.
I've never understood why scientists are so narrow minded when it comes to what's necessary for life. Air and water? Sure, that's great...for Earth.

But this is another planet we're talking about, who says ALL life needs air and water? Hell, even on Earth life differs greatly. Fish need to breathe water to survive, but humans would drown. Artic animals can't survive in hot temperatures and tropical animals can't survive in cold. Given that Earth herself is vastly different, you'd think scientists would allow for other life to be radically different.

Hell, for all we know oxygen and water are like poison to other forms of life.

[dann]

Water contains oxygen. Maybe in a couple hundred million years after the sun gets a bit bigger, that ice on mars will melt and send some of that oxygen into it's atmosphere! Yay!

...while destroying life on Earth with the severe heat. No!

Total Recall!


So, will there be 3-breasted women?

"Hahaha, you think this is the real me? It is."

[Shaft Agent]

i thought this was interesting :wonder:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2mHe211mLV0&feature=related

oh great, now my hopes are up! :mad:

also, Space Elevator. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2UZDHHDhog)

[maxx]

i thought this was interesting :wonder:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2mHe211mLV0&feature=related

wait wtf? u know whats interesting..how he somehow managed to get a 45 min vid on youtube.

[goodm0urning]

I've never understood why scientists are so narrow minded when it comes to what's necessary for life. Air and water? Sure, that's great...for Earth.

But this is another planet we're talking about, who says ALL life needs air and water? Hell, even on Earth life differs greatly. Fish need to breathe water to survive, but humans would drown. Artic animals can't survive in hot temperatures and tropical animals can't survive in cold. Given that Earth herself is vastly different, you'd think scientists would allow for other life to be radically different.

Hell, for all we know oxygen and water are like poison to other forms of life.You raise a good point, but assuming the existence of such radical forms of life would basically amount to conjecture right now, as opposed to "life as we know it," which we know for certain exists in at least one location in the universe--here.

If our very own planet can give rise to extremophiles that thrive in extreme pressure conditions at the bottom of the ocean, then it is a good bet that creatures can evolve elsewhere in other circumstances that we would consider harsh and inhospitable. However, there isn't any guarantee that we'd even recognize such creatures as "life" if we came across them. It's a more scientifically sound route to at least have a set of criteria in mind when searching for extraterrestrial life, and, for lack of a better option, those criteria are composed of what we know of life from our own neighborhood. Science often uses what we know already as a way of contextualizing new information and theories about what we don't know.

[Scorpio_G]

Now we need to build mechs so I can sign up for the earth alliance defense military.

Naw, I want to be an intergalactic bounty hunter! :woot::lovin:

[specs]

EDIT - Deleted after seeing warning on page 2. My bad.

As a replacement post... let's see some Mars bitches.

[HoneyBBQGrundle]

I find it amazing scientist/engineers were able to calculate with such precision on such a massive distance how things will work.

Actually they can't. Isn't like one of the most important problems facing physicists to explain the unexpected movement of space probes? And the engineers are still working on that whole problem with the shuttles exploding, so they're even worse.

[white shadow]

I've never understood why scientists are so narrow minded when it comes to what's necessary for life. Air and water? Sure, that's great...for Earth.

But this is another planet we're talking about, who says ALL life needs air and water? Hell, even on Earth life differs greatly. Fish need to breathe water to survive, but humans would drown. Artic animals can't survive in hot temperatures and tropical animals can't survive in cold. Given that Earth herself is vastly different, you'd think scientists would allow for other life to be radically different.

Hell, for all we know oxygen and water are like poison to other forms of life.

Yeah I've been saying this for ages. It's just that water is so useful for synthesizing organic chemicals and stabilizing DNA that they hang on to it more than other possible chemicals. I'm sure there are many lifeforms that don't even use DNA or a macro version of it in a more or less complex configuration.


You raise a good point...

I want my rock monster from Lost In Space dammit!

[goodm0urning]

I want my rock monster for Lost In Space dammit!Did anyone else see that Star Trek episode when they come across a silicon-based creature that was killing off workers in the pergium mines? They didn't even realize it was an organism at first because it looked like a clod of rocks. That was cool.

And by "cool," I mean "On general principle, there is absolutely nothing cool about Star Trek."

[alfaphlex]

The plot thickens.
http://www.astroengine.com/?p=596

[goodm0urning]

The plot thickens.
http://www.astroengine.com/?p=596It's also worth noting that they've found perchlorate in the Martian soil, which is potentially toxic to life here on Earth. Whether the perchlorate is naturally occurring or a contaminant as the result of our equipment, they don't know yet.

[Weeks]

The plot thickens.
http://www.astroengine.com/?p=596

methinks it is much ado about nothing

[Zero619]

Now all they need to find is sugar and GREEN

Then we can make some intergalactic APPLE DRANK!

FIXED! :rofl:

[white shadow]

methinks it is much ado about nothing

They found a Kit-Kat wrapper on Mars and that's not tantamount to anything?

[King9999]

So did anyone actually taste the water?

[{PFH}-Lake]

ya and a man named M. Bison will take over mars in 10 years

[The Chief]

I've never understood why scientists are so narrow minded when it comes to what's necessary for life. Air and water? Sure, that's great...for Earth.

But this is another planet we're talking about, who says ALL life needs air and water? Hell, even on Earth life differs greatly. Fish need to breathe water to survive, but humans would drown. Artic animals can't survive in hot temperatures and tropical animals can't survive in cold. Given that Earth herself is vastly different, you'd think scientists would allow for other life to be radically different.

Hell, for all we know oxygen and water are like poison to other forms of life.

With this logic it's impossible to believe that life dosen't exist somewhere else in the universe. Scientists still don't know how life began on Earth. How the first living cell was created. But they know what we're made up of and some of history's scientists have created "parts" of cells from water, carbon, and air/oxygen (Luois Pastuer).

So yeah, is it possible that if there was an extra terrestrial life form, could it be comprised of somthing totally different than we are? Theoretically yes, but since we scientifically havn't even figured out how life was created on Earth, it would be hard to even begin theorizing how an extraterrestrial life form could've been created.

[wepeel]

Did anyone else see that Star Trek episode when they come across a silicon-based creature that was killing off workers in the pergium mines? They didn't even realize it was an organism at first because it looked like a clod of rocks. That was cool.

And by "cool," I mean "On general principle, there is absolutely nothing cool about Star Trek."

Seen them all...ST:TNG fan right here...but I dunno if a Star Trek thread would be popular around these parts. Anyway it's kind of hard to just talk about the science of this article unless you have some esoteric knowledge on the subject...the easiest way to relate to this is to question religion, but then again that is forbidden...

One of the mods should really make a sticky that has written justification for the banning of certain topics, like weed, vs threads, religion, etc...so that people will understand the reason behind the avoidance of such threads and will be less inclined to start them.

EDIT: That Total Recall video posted was genius, lots of laughs from that one :rofl:

[R.P.D rookie]

Actually they can't. Isn't like one of the most important problems facing physicists to explain the unexpected movement of space probes? And the engineers are still working on that whole problem with the shuttles exploding, so they're even worse.

It's true probes have been lost in the past because mistakes but as the years go on, they have to be learning from mistakes. I know I would anyway if I was planning another multi billion dollar experiment. Someone correct if I'm wrong but I think a space probe called Viking 1 has left our solar system yet still sends back information. That's pretty amazing to me and this probe was launched back in the 70's or so. I'm just easily impressed by technology applied to space exploration.:looney:

Wikipedia has a ton of info on the stuff.

[The Chief]

It's true probes have been lost in the past because mistakes but as the years go on, they have to be learning from mistakes. I know I would anyway if I was planning another multi billion dollar experiment. Someone correct if I'm wrong but I think a space probe called Viking 1 has left our solar system yet still sends back information. That's pretty amazing to me and this probe was launched back in the 70's or so. I'm just easily impressed by technology applied to space exploration.:looney:

Wikipedia has a ton of info on the stuff.

It's Voyager 1 that has practically left our Solar System and in 2015 it will be 100% out of reach from the effects of our sun. It is the furthest man made object from Earth. How long NASA will be able to track it remains in question but it has far surpassed it expected lifespan and it's power source is expected to allow communication with Earth up until 2025.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_1

[wepeel]

i thought this was interesting :wonder:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2mHe211mLV0&feature=related

This is some dumbass conspiracy crap if I ever saw it, and that's coming from someone who is hoping for these kinds of connections in the first place. This guy is just terrible. "12? See that? Must be more than a coincidence." It's too bad that lots of the uninformed will take those numbers as some sort of proof...just terrible.

And lo and behold, did some looking up on this Jason Martell dude...he's directly related to the lovely site of Godtube. That's probably all I'll need to say. Will stop now...

[The Chief]

Question.
NASA has been broadcasting everything the Phoenix Lander has done loud and clear on the internet. Then suddenly they find something (which, may as well have been Megatron at this point of speculation) that leads them to consult the President/Government. After the visit they turn back and broadcast "what they've found".

Why does NASA need permission to state that they found Perchlorate, a highly oxidizing substance, on Mars?

[goodm0urning]

Question.
NASA has been broadcasting everything the Phoenix Lander has done loud and clear on the internet. Then suddenly they find something (which, may as well have been Megatron at this point of speculation) that leads them to consult the President/Government. After the visit they turn back and broadcast "what they've found".

Why does NASA need permission to state that they found Perchlorate, a highly oxidizing substance, on Mars?They already said it yesterday.

[The Chief]

They've said why they needed the permission?

[goodm0urning]

They've said why they needed the permission?No. They publicly reported what they found before all the mysterious hush-hush White House shit.

[The Chief]

Oh yeah. I saw that. My question was asking why NASA needed to consult the White House for what is arguably a lack luster discovery (that could apparently have been selected to keep secret).

[maxx]

Seen them all...ST:TNG fan right here...but I dunno if a Star Trek thread would be popular around these parts. Anyway it's kind of hard to just talk about the science of this article unless you have some esoteric knowledge on the subject...the easiest way to relate to this is to question religion, but then again that is forbidden...

One of the mods should really make a sticky that has written justification for the banning of certain topics, like weed, vs threads, religion, etc...so that people will understand the reason behind the avoidance of such threads and will be less inclined to start them.

EDIT: That Total Recall video posted was genius, lots of laughs from that one :rofl:

i think a star trek thread would be alive for a while..theirs enough hidden trekkie fans in gd...just talk about the uberness of sisko and they will come.

[FurryCurry]

i think a star trek thread would be alive for a while..theirs enough hidden trekkie fans in gd...just talk about the uberness of sisko and they will come.

maaaaan

That's that nigga for president right thurr!