Tiering the viable teams?

[xX_Deus_Xx]

so i was wondering what the tiers for the viable teams are.
i dont play marvel all that hardcore so i really would rather hear other more experienced player's opinions.


top:
santhrax
cablethrax(?)
mss



???(no particular order):
rowtron
matrix
ducdo
msp
combofiend
clockwork
scrub
scrubclops
ironman/sent/cable
ironman/cable/doom
storm/sent/ironman

low:
team z
blackheart/xxx/xxx




(+whatever tons of combinations i left out)

wildcard:
msp
(really, really depends on the player, a shitty msp player will lose randomly to shit like scrubby blackheart)

[eczangief]

MSS
MSP
SSCC
SSCable
M/IM/Sent

all equally godlike

it all really boils down to the player though. Anything made up of gods or tops has the tools to clean house against any other team.

[Letsgetdangerous]

Not sure if you can make a clear tier of teams... it might be easier to rank how well each team does against another team.

[50mOrEcEnTz]

i think msp is just a notch above everything else...

after msp i'd say matrix, santhrax...maybe even im/storm/cable


like you said though, marvel REALLY depends on the player...team duc is a gross team as well, he's won evo twice with that team too, has to be up there.

[Deth-Scyanyde]

For a list like this to have some sort ov worth you'd have to consider that the player is top-notch and near-flawless. Otherwise normally free matches like MSP vs Scrub would end in Scrub's favor due to lack ov execution/knowledge in the MSP players' part. You also have to go by the amount ov players that pick certain teams in todays metagame (there is a hella lot ov MSP activity folks).

Tier 1
-MSP
-MSCyke
-Santhrax (CapCom/Cable variants)
-Matrix
-Combofiend (Mag/IM/Sent)
-MSS (Mag/Storm/Sent)
-Watts (Sent/BH/CapCom)

Tier 2
-Duc (Spiral/Cable/Sent)
-ROW (Mag/Cable/Sent)
-Samnang (Mag/BH/Cyke)
-Mitsu (IM/Storm/Cable)
-MST (Mag/Storm/Tron)

Tier 3
-Clockw0rk (Storm and Sent variants)
-Scrub (all variants)
-IM/Sent/Cable
-IM/Cable/Doom

Other teams that have potential:
-BH/Cable/Doom (or Cyke)
-Doom/Storm/Sent
-BH/Storm/Sent
-Doom/BH/Sent (or Cyke)


You also have to take into account what each character brings to the table when it comes to the teams they're in. Magnus and IM have the One-Touch Kill factor, Mag/Storm and Storm/Sent have 100% DHC kills, Sent can potentially kill off 2/3rds ov MSP when his unblockable setups are done flawlessly, Combofiend (with 3 meters) can kill just about anybody...

I will not go on but you should see where I'm going with all this...if there are any objections I'm open for debate...

[disgruntled goa]

Tier 1: MSP, MSS, Santhrax, Matrix.

These 4 teams are probably the most predominant teams in tournaments and they win the most often. All other teams are below.

[eczangief]

haha ya i forgot cyke

[50mOrEcEnTz]

There is no good way to do this...single character tiers or team tiers...its just not possible...watching videos and playing will help you decide what team is best for you than any team tier thread.

each team variates depending on player...and certain teams counter others...(like scrub vs watts or clockwork vs combofiend or matrix vs clockwork, list goes on and on and on) yet good players can win seemingly very hard matchups (scrub vs storm/sent/aa) even though theory says "x" team should win, "y" wins. its all skill level.

[Augmint]

so i was wondering what the tiers for the viable teams are.
i dont play marvel all that hardcore so i really would rather hear other more experienced player's opinions.


top:
santhrax
cablethrax(?)
mss



???(no particular order):
rowtron
matrix
ducdo
msp
combofiend
clockwork
scrub
scrubclops
ironman/sent/cable
ironman/cable/doom
storm/sent/ironman

low:
team z
blackheart/xxx/xxx




(+whatever tons of combinations i left out)

wildcard:
msp
(really, really depends on the player, a shitty msp player will lose randomly to shit like scrubby blackheart)

Top is what disgruntled goa listed

btw - is cablethrax cable/storm/commando?

[Deth-Scyanyde]

Cablethrax would be Scrub, since Sent/CapCom is what makes up the '-Thrax' suffix...so he was probably meaning Storm/Sent/Cable...

[ytwojay]

Tier 1

-MSCyke
-Watts (Sent/BH/CapCom)

wtf is going on here

[Deth-Scyanyde]

wtf is going on here

I'll fix MSCyke to Tier 2...but Watts stays for the sole reason that the meta is focused around mostly MSP...and Watts is more than capable ov countering that team. I already stated that all this was solely opinion in my part.

[xero15]

what are the different variants of scrub then since you have it named up there as cable thrax.

[ytwojay]

the matchup is MAYBE 6:4 watts

not enough of an advantage to make it a tier 1 team

what are the different variants of scrub then since you have it named up there as cable thrax.
scrub - cable/sent/commando
scrubclops - cable/sent/cyclops

idunno wtf cablethrax is, he's prolly talking about storm/sent/cable

Basically you have your proven teams:
MSP
MSS
Thrax
Scrub
Row [debatable?]

And everything else.

[xX_Deus_Xx]

idunno wtf cablethrax is, he's prolly talking about storm/sent/cable



yup thats what i meant.




the way i figure it santhrax is top because of storm/sent versatility + commando damage and space control fucking up a ton of shit. the commando assist is extremely dominating and can easily force a team with a lesser assist into the corner, basically seems like that team can deal with anything and only needs one opening to halfway end the match.

sscable doesnt control space as well, but if you get snapped out its a 3 man team, which makes it strong anyways.

mss is just damage + being a 3 man team.

i would probably wanna put combofiend into the top part as well, seeing as a ton of damage can come off of an ironman assist hit + being a 3 man team + controlling a ton of space. mainly the reason i dont wanna put ducdo/rowtron/combofiend into a tier 1 spot is it doesnt seem to me too many people use them besides their creators. oh and rowtron has a problem of controlling space and getting safe tag outs.

if anything in high level play i would guess at scrub/clops loses to anything MS, unless starting sent, but i just think cable has too hard a time competing with MS players nowadays.

basically if anyone was wondering, i wanted to know what tier the top teams would be in if you compared an overall matchup chart.

i think msp is kinda a wildcard team because it seems to me that its worst matchups are at least 5/10, its best matchups being better. plus a possibility of sometimes getting hit as you're rushing with magneto or losing magneto early and having a team thats basically all pixie characters means if mag is lost early, it'll b harder to win.

[ytwojay]

sscable doesnt control space as well, but if you get snapped out its a 3 man team, which makes it strong anyways.
MSCable is also a 3 man team, but its shitty as hell. Just because you have 3 strong point characters doesn't mean you have a good team.

mss is just damage + being a 3 man team.
MSS isn't 'just' damage, its also versatile and has great DHCs. Basically the only thing it doesn't have is an AAA.

oh and rowtron has a problem of controlling space
what does this even mean? does it have a harder time 'controlling space' than MSP?

youre right tho, nobody but row seems to use this team effectively. still, when you watch him play everything just seems to make sense.
if anything in high level play i would guess at scrub/clops loses to anything MS, unless starting sent, but i just think cable has too hard a time competing with MS players nowadays.

yea it doesnt seem like a lot of people are using scrub anymore but i think people are just too lazy to learn how to block.

[shoultzula]

where do you put teams like mag\morrigan\tron or shit like sim\IM\sent?

[sgt_toasty]

This topic seems way too ethereal. Generating a tier list of characters is difficult enough (at least once moving beyond the gods), but classifying teams which are not played by the same players is nearly impossible in my opinion. Having said that I would put MSP, Santhrax, MSS, and Row up at the top, with many others nipping on the aforementioned team's heels.

[shoultzula]

Too many good teams in marvel to make a solid list so I'd do something like, undisputed top then everything else.

I like msp, thrax, matrix and combofiend @ the top. Tony starks is too serious :looney:

Stuff like msc, sscable, duc, BH assorted teams, ro, mss, scrubs are all good teams but whats the point after the top? game is just too deep and characters take a huge amount of time to master like duc winning 2k5 with spiral. So do you put spiral ahead of most characters based on potential of one player, or do you take the effectiveness of a team through out the entire nation and rank them that way?

[50mOrEcEnTz]

So do you put spiral ahead of most characters based on potential of one player, or do you take the effectiveness of a team through out the entire nation and rank them that way?
i think potential is the best way to go.

[ElderGOD]

As far as consistency goes, Storm Sent Cyc is the best in the game.

With potential, MSP, Cl0ck, and Duc are tops.

Then comes Thrax and MSS right below it for consistency. Then Row and Fiend then Japan/Mitsu.

Then come other varients like SS? or M?S etc.

Off the top of my head for now, I probably missed something.

[beatsofdevil]

I like

Matrix
Santhrax
MSP
MSS
Rowtron

[Lobelia Mk. IV]

Cammy/Storm/Tron ftw! :rofl:
Nah, but seriously, Matrix is probably the best team in the game.

[HuStLeMaN17]

mag/storm/sent imo

[AK]

I'll see what I can do about getting a matrix filled out by top players on their matchup opinions for the top 12 teams, just like ST style.

Matrix
Santhrax
MSP
MSS
Rowtron
clock
duc
fiend
mitsu
sscable
scrub
watts


this should have probably been done a long time ago.



See ST example (http://curryallergy.blogspot.com/2008/09/super-diagram-turbo-version-2.html)

[xX_Deus_Xx]

I'll see what I can do about getting a matrix filled out by top players on their matchup opinions for the top 12 teams, just like ST style.

Matrix
Santhrax
MSP
MSS
Rowtron
clock
duc
fiend
mitsu
sscable
scrub
watts


this should have probably been done a long time ago.



See ST example (http://curryallergy.blogspot.com/2008/09/super-diagram-turbo-version-2.html)

what about

storm/sent/ironman

and

ironman/sent/cable

or if anything i guess that would be up to the top players for what teams to include in the list.

i also wonder about weird anti airs like say cable/sent/guile

[AK]

what about

storm/sent/ironman

and

ironman/sent/cable

or if anything i guess that would be up to the top players for what teams to include in the list.

i also wonder about weird anti airs like say cable/sent/guile


These teams are pretty open ended, and it's missing stuff like Cable/Sent/Cyc and the ones you mentioned above.

I suppose the main point is to get the teams that are used most often and limit it to 12 teams, otherwise it could get out of hand. That would be the most use to players.

[shoultzula]

I like duc over clock. Duc's team is better balanced imo and that alone makes it slightly better. Clock has the better trap imo but you can probably argue that.

[Deth-Scyanyde]

Duc has more consistency than Clock IMHO for the sole fact that you can be extremely lame with the team and still get W's!! Clock, on the other hand, has to make sure that Strider doesn't die or else you're pretty much done. I say this now cause out ov the majority ov the S/D players that I've seen out there, at least 60% ov them use Doom the 'wrong' way (or he just straight up explodes) and therefore the S/D player is at a disadvantage once they lose Strider.

Storm/Sent/IronMan I would put in the Tier 2 bracket, though I'd rather have a much more reliable AAA for Sent since without one he's screwed in certain match-ups. Starting IM in that team would prove beneficial for you can One Touch Kill their first char (DHC'ing to Storm) and then attempt St/Sent 100% on their next char. Seems like a sound theory to me...

Honestly though, only a few Storm/Sent teams should be up there cause practically ANY Storm/Sent/xx team has the potential to kill someone via DHC...

[Shadowless]

RE: Cablethrax.

I know it doesn't make any more sense, but in general I think that you should go with 'scrub~' for cable/sent/X and '~thrax' for storm/sent/X. So, in this case, we get "scrubthrax." Which is funnier, and easier to say.

Although if you want to avoid confusion, SS_blank_ is easy to understand.

[gkrohwon]

Cable Sent Cammy is better than scrubclops

[Shadowless]

So what you're saying is that Cammy is a better assist than Cyclops? They're both good assists, for sure. They both have invincible startup, which can be very important.

I think the reason most people prefer 'clops is that it's easier to combo out of his assist from the ground without any special preparation. In particular, with Cable you have enough time to see the hit and go for an AHVB. Also, many people are leery of Cammy due to the problem of her inconsistent super. Finally, Cyclops is quite good for building meter, DHC'ing, and sometimes for getting chip damage.

To be fair, I might rather have cammy on point, and as far as getting the hit, her assist is probably better.

[ringopan]

is storm/sent/psy the new shit?

[3rd strike]

how about magneto/iron man/psylocke? Is that team any good?

[Shadowless]

It sure is.

The only real question there is - would I rather have Psylocke, or Sentinel? Psylocke's the better assist, for sure, but you can get the infinite off of Sentinel's assist with crazy damage, and you're in much better shape if your assist gets punished or if you get your 3rd character snapped in.

Personally, I'd take Sentinel over Psylocke every single day, but if you're fast enough to get those double snap-outs, (etc.) maybe Psylocke's worth it.

[Preppy]

is storm/sent/psy the new shit?New? That's long established as Team Peachy (s groove master). Rattana also has been using that for a long time.

[ringopan]

New? That's long established as Team Peachy (s groove master). Rattana also has been using that for a long time.

ive seen rattana beasting with that team in some past vids from your site : )

however, i heard justin was also using that team at SB3, so that gives it a bit more mainsteam appeal. storm/psy is godly of course... but how does the sent/psy duo compare to sent/cap (who go together like burger and fries)?

[OmegaDante]

1. Santhrax..... I think this team rapes matrix and sscable and it requires less work on execution.... The range of zoning is a lot better too... less work and guarantees lots of damage all the time...
2. MSS, MSP, and Matrix.... At top level play these teams can be as dangerous as santhrax i think.... MSP has that random luck factor of and easy snap out situation... MSS is probably the most solid team, any character or two can make a comeback. Matrix is a good meter building and zoning team.
3. Scrub, SScable, Combofiend, Row... Scrub is a really solid keep away team.... problem is cable cant keep up with these new blood magnetos.... SScable is a extremely good defensive team, but cable isn't that great of an anti air assist... Combofiend probably one of the deadliest teams, but requires a lot of execution.... Row is a good team, but cable and rocket punch Sentinel just don't work well... as with cable with drones and lock down strings.
4. Duc, Cl0ckw0rks, Watts... Duc's spiral should be up a little more i think, but the no anti air problem again and spiral is not a good character alone... Cl0ckw0rks is probably one of the best teams, but requires the most execution and work.... You mess up once u might just say goodbye to your strider... Team Watts is a really good runaway team, but Blackheart doesn't do well against trap teams and doesn't do to well against nonstop rushdown.