USA or JPN style sticks for home console release?

[makstaks]

An "arcade perfect" stick is in the works. But whose arcade are they going to perfect when it releases to the US? This issue has become somewhat confusing to me.


Interview with Yoshinori Ono...

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/52972
Capcom also plans to ship an "arcade perfect" stick controller alongside the console and PC versions of Street Fighter IV, and is currently in talks with a US-based peripheral maker to produce a stick with a steel base plate, steel shaft and arcade style buttons. The controller may be bundled with a copy of the game.


Very interesting that they were talking with a US manufacturer. But technically speaking, arcade perfect would mean JPN style :rofl:


Which would you prefer?

[General Deamond]

U.S. style. Regardless, if it's of high quality I'll pick it up.

[Judgement]

japanese stick ,something similar to a vshg would be good.

[nGuman]

OOO, the suspense of what this 'arcade perfect' stick will be.

[EvilSamurai]

JPN as Happ joysticks suck.

[makstaks]

Grew up playing and competing on US style sticks....but I have since converted! I hope its JPN style :)

[Rioting Soul]

I like the gumball sticks that don't flop all over the place when you let go.

EDIT: But I fuckin hate that "clickity-clack" sound.

[YogaFire]

I just really can't stand the bat-style sticks. I need to have the ball-style so I can use the fleshy part of my hand between my thumb and palm.

[James123]

if they mean arcade perfect true to sf4 it would have to be a full sanwa stick with the vewlix panel layout. doubt it will be like that tho :rofl:

[dragonJAB]

Japanese style joystick all the way, with sanwa parts.

[jabhadouken]

U.S. style. Regardless, if it's of high quality I'll pick it up.

Either or, eh? :rofl:

[distal Stimulus]

i dont know how ppl play on america sticks

the buttons are too spread out

maybe they got big hands or something

[DreamTR]

It's all about preference, and the highest selling arcade sticks (mass market) in the USA have been the Pelican Real Arcade Stick, and the Street Fighter Anniversary Stick.

Regardless of what everyone thinks about US style bat sticks, the reason why they were implemented in the arcade in the first place was because Americans were very forceful on the sticks for years and years, and that is basically what Capcom decided upon.

Fast forward to today, Japanese sticks are better if you are used to them, but players in the US will always remember arcades having US style sticks, meaning, casual gamers, more sales. Only the hardcore pay attention to the Japanese *which is why the PS2 Tekken stick sold poorly, and the XBOX 360 Hori is produced in small increments* style sticks, and the uber hardcore would pay attention to them being Sanwa in the US.

Mass producing Sanwa buttons? Not going to be cheap.

Best thing to do is release a stick with interchangeable panels or an interchangeable BAT top which is sturdy.

[J Flo]

Japanese style. As long as it's high quality (US or JPN style), I'll most likely buy it.

[Rioting Soul]

insight

Cool, thanks for that.

[Radiantsilvergun3]

I prefer ball tops but I like my Happ buttons...

[sonicguile]

It really dosen't matter to me

[nGuman]

I hope this stick also comes with quick disconnects, which I highly doubt it will.

[DreamTR]

I hope this stick also comes with quick disconnects, which I highly doubt it will.


I'm sure it will. The guys doing it know these things are going to be modded..

[nGuman]

I'm sure it will. The guys doing it know these things are going to be modded..

Yay I see a light at the end of a tunnel. I really hope they do, it would just open opportunities for casual players to convert to be hardcore and, easily too because quick disconnect is like, plug and play lmao.

[oldtimer]

old school US street fighter scene please! P360 batstyle FTW!

To all the haters, I will go die in a fire now!

[TempestFox]

Rolling a ball around in my hand makes me feel like a ***. I prefer a nice long shaft.




...wait.

[Dandy J]

i honestly dont care, as long as its got real happ or real sanwa/seimitsu parts. theres enough half ass sticks with generic parts available.

[mugenXinfinite]

well if its a company that is us-based and if exclusive to the US it would most likely be a US style stick. The ugly thing with the bat and the straight horizontal buttons thats makes the stick look so plain and ugly yeah.......just like the anniversary collection

but seeing that the hori fighting sticks are actually being sold around stores in US now. (seriously in my neighborhood i be lucky to find a joystick selling at retails) It might be Japanese style which i really hope so the ball top lets u hold the stick in many more variations and the curve buttons is just more comfortable. I want 6 buttons and not 8 :)

IMO tho not hating on american sticks :lovin:

but regardless i'll buy it for myself to use if i like it or for who ever plays it at my house.
but i bet jpn is gnna get a jpn style stick regardless

[Ubersaurus]

Either work for me. Though if I gotta build a stick I'd probably go with JP parts, just cuz the sanwa modded DC stick I have feels more responsive than my Happ PS2 one.

[UltraDavid]

This conversion to Japanese-style sticks is so weird to me. To me the Japanese button layout is objectively easier to control, especially for things like karathrows and roll cancels, but the only reason anyone prefers Seimitsu or Sanwa sticks is nuthuggery, pure and simple.

I vote American stick/buttons with Japanese button layout.

[EvilSamurai]

This conversion to Japanese-style sticks is so weird to me. To me the Japanese button layout is objectively easier to control, especially for things like karathrows and roll cancels, but the only reason anyone prefers Seimitsu or Sanwa sticks is nuthuggery, pure and simple.

I vote American stick/buttons with Japanese button layout.

nah dude the truth is that Happ just cannot make a decent joystick. Every single stick they have taken over production for (p360, Competitions), they have managed to fuck up. This is why most people want a Japanese joystick in the SF4-branded stick and have switched over to Japanese parts. For buttons, Happ is fine as long as you go with their Convex/Competition ones but most people prefer Sanwas so I would go with those. Fuck, just give us a universal mounting bracket that allows both Sanwa JLF and Seimitsu LS-32-01 joysticks, 30mm buttons, and a METAL control panel.

Actually ignore my rant. Just make the SF4 branded stick exactly like an official Taito Vewlix control panel used on official SF4 and Taito X2 cabinets. That way everyone can get the exact same experience as on an official Vewlix cab at home.

Like this http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=5386419&postcount=5062.

[Mariodood]

This conversion to Japanese-style sticks is so weird to me. To me the Japanese button layout is objectively easier to control, especially for things like karathrows and roll cancels, but the only reason anyone prefers Seimitsu or Sanwa sticks is nuthuggery, pure and simple.

I vote American stick/buttons with Japanese button layout.

You really think thats the only reason people prefer Japanese style sticks? How about the idea that I don't like the feeling like my joystick is fighting my inputs, i.e. intensely pushing against my wrist? I recall hearing KOFiend say that he could use the sticks at Chinatown Fair (bat tops) but after a while he got tired, so I'm obviously not the only one.

I really hope this turns out to be a japanese style stick with actually high quality parts, or at least SANWA buttons. At this point I think people would be willing to pay a premium for an easy to get stick that doesn't need crazy ass modding. Speaking of modding, this stick better be easy to mod. All the Hori ones so far have had the buttons soldered directly to the PCB. I have no idea what that does except for making the stick a giant pain in the ass to mod, and it better not happen here. Somebody get Seth on this. >_>

[Ghostal]

And the only reason people prefer Happ parts is because of a misdirected sense of purism for a blatantly inferior product. Ahhh, incorrect generalizations are great, aren't they?

I'd prefer at least the japanese layout regardless of parts used, simply because everyone is going to mod them anyways and the curved layout is more comfortable all-around. QDs would be sweet too for skirting around obnoxious soldering.

[Maximilian Masters]

If they mimic the arcade cabinet exactly, I'd be extremely happy. They felt really responsive, and the button layout was great. Made my Hori Real Arcade Pro 2 seem like a piece of ass. Just hope they don't space the joystick too close to the buttons, like the HRAP...always screws me up.

[SNAAAAKE]

I can play on either but no fucking p360s plz. that shit is SO bad..gives me hand cramps after like 5 minutes :annoy: I have yet to figure out how anyone can actually play on p360s....

[fallot]

Korean sticks!

[Humbag]

... but the only reason anyone prefers Seimitsu or Sanwa sticks is nuthuggery, pure and simple.


Baseless.

I could give a damn about Japanese culture etc etc blah blah.

All I know is that on a Sanwa stick I can actually get any move I want to come out whenever I want.

On a typical american stick I can usually get everything to work but more often than not random shit like jumps and dashes own me for free.

[The Mullah]

the only reason anyone prefers Seimitsu or Sanwa sticks is nuthuggery, pure and simple.



I used to hate not being able to block sweeps on my p360, plus that super hard spring made my left forearm burn. When i switched to Sanwa i noticed the throw felt better+ deadzone felt smaller (unsubstantiated;) and it was far more responsive. Played on a comp stick and it was pretty good, but didn't feel as quality as the sanwa.

bat tops are also inferior because they aren't as comfortable for wine glass practitioners.

[Taito]

Bat-sticks for me. Lollipops only helped me pull off SNK pretzel motions better, they're way too sensitive for me when it comes to something like SFIV that's precise but with simple motions. I tend to jump accidentally when I try a super and I know I'm not the only one at my arcade that does that.

Japanese buttons are awesome though, if I have a custom stick made, it would have to be batstick + convex buttons..

[Agent X]

i doubt they'll make japanese stick
they'll most likely make american happ sticks:shake:

[EvilSamurai]

Bat-sticks for me. Lollipops only helped me pull off SNK pretzel motions better, they're way too sensitive for me when it comes to something like SFIV that's precise but with simple motions. I tend to jump accidentally when I try a super and I know I'm not the only one at my arcade that does that.

Japanese buttons are awesome though, if I have a custom stick made, it would have to be batstick + convex buttons..

It took me like 6 months of heavy play on a Jap stick before I stopped accidently tigerkneeing fireballs and supers.

[DS]

I grew up playing on American sticks(good ol' 90s Street Fighter) and never really found the transition all that hard. I could still play ST and Marvel versus series on American sticks, but that's about it. Everything else is mostly on JP sticks. Took me about 1 month to adapt. Even learned how to tick 360/720 on JP sticks.

Either way, I still got my Pelican converter, so I'm good to go.

[DreamTR]

Everyone keeps talking about Happ for some reason.

People that buy these American sticks don't know/care about Happ. There has not been ONE MAJOR US MASS PRODUCED STICK with Happ Controls. Everything uses an overseas equivalent. The SFAE and Pelican Arcade Sticks used pseudo mimics of Happ Supers.

I am pretty sure this stick is going to be Japanese, but that does not mean it will equate to better sales overall. This is still a "hardcore" website, and most arcade machines (truck stops, family oriented places, LBEs, etc) still use the normal US Bat style stick.

Happ sticks are a lot more likely to be stable and consistent unless there is weight on a Japanese style Real Arcade Pro style stick.

As good as Japanese sticks are, the ones made are not stable sans the Real Arcade Pro. The button layout is much better, and Japanese buttons in general are better overall, but they are sensitive, and take getting used to.

Again, it's all about preference, and this argument will never end anyway...

[Ex0dUs27]

it would seem to me that if they truly want an "arcade perfect" stick as it was mentioned before, they should be going with the sanwa/Jap design. However, i have a feeling this is going to become the SFAC Stick Version 2.0, Happ-ed out with american style layout and bat stick. In either case, im probably still going to buy it. It doesnt hurt to be able to work on both kinds of set ups. For the record, i prefer JAP sticks.

[makstaks]

I'm thinking it will be japanese style. I don't see MarkMan rating an american style stick in the same tier as Sega's VSHG and the HRAP2 SA. Also note that the top 2 ranks (for the released sticks) have authentic parts...the highest tier having authentic joystick and buttons.


Originally Posted by MarkMan

S - Rank

* SEGA Virtua Stick High Grade (PS3)
* Hori Real Arcade Pro 2 SA (PS2)
* Street Fighter IV Arcade Stick Pro (PS3, 360) *

A - Rank

* Hori Real Arcade Pro Amazon Japan (PS2)
* Hori Real Arcade Pro 3 (PS3)
* Hori Real Arcade Pro 3 Amazon Japan (PS3)
* Hori Real Arcade Pro EX (360)

B - Rank

* Hori Fighting Stick EX2 (360) - Same as Dead or Alive 4 Arcade Stick and Soulcalibur IV Arcade Stick.
* Street Fighter IV Arcade Stick (PS3, 360) *

C - Rank

* Hori Fighting Stick 3 (PS3) - Same as Soulcalibur IV Arcade Stick.

D - Rank


* - Not yet released.

[crazydiamond]

the only reason anyone prefers Seimitsu or Sanwa sticks is nuthuggery, pure and simple.


What about anti-Americanism? Could be that too.

Nah but seriously. I voted Japanese style because I've never used an American one but it doesn't look like a pleasant experience.

[EvilSamurai]

the Virtua Stick High Grade sucks. Not being able to hit three or more buttons at once makes it useless so I would put it in the B rank (soldering a new PCB is much harder than simply swapping out buttons).

[DS]

the Virtua Stick High Grade sucks. Not being able to hit three or more buttons at once makes it useless so I would put it in the B rank (soldering a new PCB is much harder than simply swapping out buttons).

I used one. It's pretty good. It doesn't suck. Try harder.

[Indy]

Its actually a known problem with the VSHG. Yes the parts are all arcade quality out of the box but you can't ignore that the PCB does have problems that do hold it back.

[Lonestar]

if they mean arcade perfect true to sf4 it would have to be a full sanwa stick with the vewlix panel layout. doubt it will be like that tho :rofl:

Oh man, a Viewlix panel stick similar to TheRealNeoGeo's recent Viewlix stick would be t3h s3x. I've been thinking about ordering a full Viewlix panel to make a similar creation.

Hopefully there will be some kind of official Hori stick to go along with this game's console release in Japan.

[DreamTR]

Like I said before, if you guys think they are going to mass produce these with Sanwa and Happ parts, you are mistaken. Cost on those is ENORMOUS.

If anything, it is probably going to be similar to the Real Arcade Pro Series for PS2.

And the Virtua Stick High Grade is badbadbad because of the PCB issues. Zangief = garbage not to mention playing any VF game.

[Rhythm1c]

I vote American stick/buttons with Japanese button layout.




I agree with this.

The curved button layout just makes sense to me. It feels natural compared to the straight across layout. But I like happ sticks better.

[Fulaani]

not to mention playing any VF game.
The 3 button problem actually doens't occur with VF. It's pretty much the most perfect stick ever for VF, but for other games it less than optimal.

[platinum_pinoy]

It's console. You can go with whatever you wish. I think the more pertinent question for SF4 is what console will be used for tournaments. I'd hate to lug around a 360 and a PS3 stick around EVO because people can't agree on a console standard.

[Oro's Other Arm]

Happ? Pfft. Get the original iL stick.

[DietSoap]

It's console. You can go with whatever you wish. This is talking about the official SF4 stick they release.

Jap stick for me. This could be entirely my fault, but anytime I've used an american stick I always fuck up moves. I also just hate it how it feels.

[True Grave]

I'd be ok with either style, as long as the quality of the stock SF4 stick controls are good and work well.

If i could choose though, it would be Happ competition controls & layout all the way.

[James123]

Oh man, a Viewlix panel stick similar to TheRealNeoGeo's recent Viewlix stick would be t3h s3x. I've been thinking about ordering a full Viewlix panel to make a similar creation.

Hopefully there will be some kind of official Hori stick to go along with this game's console release in Japan.

that panel is sexy. i want the layout like that on my custom but instead of having that button plug there i want another button for my snk games. it would be godlike.

does anybody know if they are going to be releasing sf4 with a different type of cab in the USA?

[m121akuma]

JPN style, no doubt. Ever since I bought my first Hori, I never looked back.

[SlothHands]

I hate jap sticks they're small as their dicks. I got big american manly hands.

[Slayzz]

I hate jap sticks they're small as their dicks. I got big american manly hands.

:shake:

[DreamTR]

The 3 button problem actually doens't occur with VF. It's pretty much the most perfect stick ever for VF, but for other games it less than optimal.


It happens when I do drinks with Shun Di.

[jabhadouken]

I hate jap sticks they're small as their dicks. I got big american manly hands.

This comparison, coupled with a reference to your hands...

Oh well.

'Grats on coming out and all... I guess. :rolleyes:

But why here?

[Fulaani]

It happens when I do drinks with Shun Di.
Then maybe you have a pre-recall version. Cause pretty much everyone in the VF community used HGs when they played VF on ps3 and I heard no complaints. You would notice it with techrolls and OMs aswell.

[kempobot]

For whatever reason, I find it a lot easier to dragon punch with the bat sticks, but I do prefer the quality of the sanwa sticks.

[Captain Ryu]

God damn, I knew everyone would vote against happ. Fuck you guys :mad: Probably wouldn't mind jap sticks on a cab though.

[True Grave]

God damn, I knew everyone would vote against happ. Fuck you guys :mad: Probably wouldn't mind jap sticks on a cab though.

Ya know i've played on Happ/USA style most of my life, with the exception of that one time where a friend let me use his Sanwa stick. There really was NOT that much of a difference overall, i was able to execute stuff just as i would on my Happ stick.

So i stand by my earlier statement of not really caring which style they go with, so long as the stock controls are good quality and work well. If the controls suck however, then i at least hope they make it easy to swap in quality stuff.

The SF anniversary stick for example: the KO stock controls weren't bad at all, and it was *EASY* to swap them out with real Happ parts. So i consider the AC stick a winner(well except the PCB).

[BigEd80]

If they mimic the arcade cabinet exactly, I'd be extremely happy. They felt really responsive, and the button layout was great. Made my Hori Real Arcade Pro 2 seem like a piece of ass. Just hope they don't space the joystick too close to the buttons, like the HRAP...always screws me up.

Hate to tell you this but the HRAP2 mimics exactly the button layout in what you will find in a Japanese arcade. If you're criticizing the Hori buttons on the HRAP2 why not switch out the buttons for sanwa buttons, that's what I did.

[xXx$HIN-GIEFxXx]

U.S. style. Regardless, if it's of high quality I'll pick it up.

Same.

[EvilSamurai]

I actually wouldn't care if they used American parts if they used IL Eurojoysticks instead of the shitty new Happ Comps sticks. Also, if they do use US parts, then use convex buttons please.

[iceworld]

http://kotaku.com/5039035/mad-catz-making-official-street-fighter-iv-controllers

[Lonestar]

WTF?! MadCatz?! What is Capcom smoking? I can't imagine these sticks being as good as a HRAP. Tekken and DOA and SC all got a Hori stick so why not SF4?

[robotchop]

seriously i doubt madcatz will make anything that good. weak!

[str[e]ak]

relax. s-kill and markman are working with them. (http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=5458933&postcount=14)

[EvilSamurai]

For whatever reason, I find it a lot easier to dragon punch with the bat sticks, but I do prefer the quality of the sanwa sticks.

I find non-charge characters easier to play on Seimitsu and IL Eurosticks. Sanwas are still good though. Just don't play non fighting games with them.

[evilj]

Honestly, it should be USA style with japanese layout. It will sell more and bring back the days of street fighter 2. Most of the people like SRK heads who prefer japanese sticks already have them via custom sticks or hraps and if this new stick going to be japanese style and it's not sanwa, it probably ain't worth it.

So far from playing the game, I don't think the execution is a big deal like in cvs2 with roll cancelling and custom combos and to a lesser extent 3rd strike.

Dp motions and double motions aren't that hard to do people. It's not like needing a korean stick to use mishimas to their fullest in tekken.

[robotchop]

ak;5462797']relax. s-kill and markman are working with them. (http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=5458933&postcount=14)

nice! well i am no longer worried. thanks for the link!

[DreamTR]

It still is worthy to note that casual gamers prefer the US style stick more than anything. Sales and NPD numbers do not lie. The closest thing released here similar to this was the HRAP style Tekken 5 stick, which did VERY poorly, then you throw in Real Arcade Stick from Pelican and Nuby stick, and those sold 100K plus units combined, infinitely more than any Japanese stick in the US.

I know everyone here will get it, but the casuals are not going to like it if it ends up being Japanese, and that's (casual US gamers) who this game is being marketed/catered to.

[EvilSamurai]

It still is worthy to note that casual gamers prefer the US style stick more than anything. Sales and NPD numbers do not lie. The closest thing released here similar to this was the HRAP style Tekken 5 stick, which did VERY poorly, then you throw in Real Arcade Stick from Pelican and Nuby stick, and those sold 100K plus units combined, infinitely more than any Japanese stick in the US.

I know everyone here will get it, but the casuals are not going to like it if it ends up being Japanese, and that's (casual US gamers) who this game is being marketed/catered to.

I don't think the T5 stick didn't do well because because of the Jap parts but because it was only packaged in some special edition of the game that sold for $100+, had horrible artwork on it, and was marketed for Tekken. Casual Tekken players almost always use pads and there are very few moves that are input intensive.

- Any SF marketed stick with actual microswitched buttons and joystick will do much better even if it comes with an incorrectly mounted (there should not have been a recess routed-out for the stick and itprobably should have used a Happ Comp knockoff instead. The mountings might have been ok for a Super/Super clone though) Happ Super knockoff that even casual players realize is somewhat shitty (well it can't really be not shitty as Happ Supers are shitty by definition though their shittyness is probably due to the shitty microswitches they use. Play on a Taeyoung (or even Myoungshin) Fanta or Seimitsu stick for a bit (a few weeks) and then open up your stick and look at the actuating levers on the microswitches. They will still be fairly straight and even if not they will work well. Try the same thing with a Happ Super and the levers will be bent and the diagonals not just small but really wacky) as SF needs joysticks much more than Tekken. When the Pelican stick was released, I don't think there were any other sticks on the mainstream market and it probably would have done even better if it didn't burn out PS2 controller ports.

- The Hori 360 sticks seem to be doing very well though. The DOA4 one wasn't doing all that great though until Hyper Fighting came out on live though when it immediately sold out. I also thing the various sticks branded for Virtua Fighter over the years have done fairly well too.

- 3d fighters may sell more copies on average than 2d ones (unless the maker is Capcom and the game isn't CFJ) but 2d fighters (aka Street Fighter in the eyes of the casual gamer) push joysticks.

- adding a battop to a Jap stick costs money but may sell more sticks. Capcom/madcatz should maybe market a seperate battop + adapter which wouldn't void your warranty.

For the SF4 stick to be THE best stock home arcade stick ever it would have to top the HRAP2:SA which means:

- correctly mounted Sanwa JLF/Seimitsu LS-32/IL Eurostick
- 6 Sanwa, Seimitsu, or Happ/IL Comp/Convex buttons (no having to plug up the extra 2) in an ergonomic layout arranged correctly with the stick. HRAP2/3 and 6 button MAS sticks have correct placement with regards to the joystick. The SFAC, Pelican, X-Arcade, and HRAP1 did not.
- easy accesable, sturdy case w/ a metal control panel for japanese parts or 3/4 inch thick wood for American. I want to be able to open it up with only a screwdriver. If it is a japanese style stick, I want nice control panel bolts like on the HRAP 2 SA so I don't have to take the bottom off.
- Sanwa/Seimitsu 24mm or Happ Player buttons for the system buttons.
- quality PCB that does everything as advertised unlike MAS, the SFAC, Pelican, and Hori FS3/EX2. I want one as good as the HRAP2 pcb.
- a long cord. the HRAP series does not have a long enough cord and I have to use an extension cable.
- quick disconnects on everything

[Nokato]

Sanwa/Hori sticks for the win...no american crappy MAS sticks, please.

[reiji1337]

Hopefully, American bat-sticks, buttons i do not care, but the bat-stick i grew up with and i really would rather have that.

[bokchoy]

I'm comfortable with the bat style, but haven't used the Jap sticks that often.

[Dentron]

This is america bitch. ackrite

[DuckHole]

I voted Jap.

[Lonewolf_Fenrir]

I like US sticks better, but if it's good quality parts, i'd buy either anyway ^^

[pootnannies]

i'm surprised people can't tell the difference between "american" happ sticks and jap ones. first of all the happs have a huge throw in order to hit the microswitch so fuck that. if you like using your whole body to do srk's then go with happ style. jap sticks do not require that much throw especially seimitsus and are more sensitive.

IMHO it's easier to execute faster directions with jap sticks then happ ones.

[*Onslaught*]

I prefer US style, but either works fine.

[MrMojoZ]

I'd prefer they used cheap knockoff Jap style stick/buttons (this is Madcatz afterall folks) that were easily trashed for Sanawa/Seimitsu parts. This would keep costs down and make the stick popular with the hardcore players who would mod it and the general population who wouldn't know any better anyway.

[Lethargy]

Happ Competition Stick, medium spring, and Happ Convex buttons ftw every time! I'm tired of feeling like I'm playing on some flimsy, gonna fall apart in 2 seconds Japanese style toy.... and square gates are beyond horrible feeling, totally un-fluid movements! Nothing like missing stupidly easy FB and DP motions because the "stick" you're playing on is 1/2 an inch tall and gets stuck in a corner every other time!

[MrMojoZ]

I'm tired of feeling like I'm playing on some flimsy, gonna fall apart in 2 seconds Japanese style toy....

Considering Happ quality is going down the toliet, you might want to rethink that.

[DreamTR]

EvilSamurai:

All these parts you want in a stick cost a LOT of money for mass market to produce. Remember, these have to be produced in VOLUME, so those parts INFINITELY add to the cost.

The Pelican stick only burned out a small number of PS2 ports, and the thing sold tons, so it's not like that had anything to do with poor sales, because it is the #1 selling mass market stick across three platforms (120K units).

The ergonomics you talk about are in comparison to a Japanese stick. In the US, the SFAC stick had a similarity to most arcade sticks at the time, and for what it was with XBOX and PS2 capabilities, artwork, poster, plexi, t-molding, etc, that was the best stick for mass market. Also, what did the SFAC PCB "not do?" It was easily modded, and the PCB worked on XBOX and PS2, so I'm not sure what the deal is with that.


Honestly, all this complaining about sticks (and not meant towards you EvilSamurai) is funny.

Sticks are about preference. They only "suck" because you aren't used to them. That's it.

Japanese sticks are tiny and unstable. If you grew up playing on them in your lap, and "gently" play with them and then try to play on an American stick, of course it's going to seem "different" and harder to do things. Just like it's hard to get used to a Japanese stick if you play on an American stick your whole life.

#1 reason I prefer American sticks over Japanese is the STABILITY of them when doing forced uppercuts to the right and spastic moves. You need a bulkier stick for that if you grew up here. I can play on both sticks, and Japanese are pretty nice IF THEY ARE STABLE, but the only ones that are? Real Arcade Pros, which have weight on them.

Remember when everyone was cockgobbling Perfect 360 sticks? Imagine having to play ST on Perfect 360s for the ENTIRE lifespan of arcade tournaments since 1998-2006 or so. That was the "norm" here, but the smart players who were chastised knew 360s on ST are garbage, but that's besides the point. They are only garbage for angles, but are not so bad in 3s, MVC2, etc. Again, it's all preference.

And about people thinking because "Happ" sticks are not so good we should not want American sticks on a SFIV stick?

Um, hello? WHAT MASS MARKET COMPANY RELEASES HAPP STICKS ON THEIR PRODUCTS? No one. They all use replicas. Mas, which is not mass market, uses Happs, so I think everyone is confused about how products are made, and the costs involved with these for some reason.

The point is, everyone wants the stick "they are accustomed to" and that's the only way everyone will be satisfied. There are more primadonna stick owners now than ever who can seriously only play on one type of stick, and that's precisely why there is this problem. You need time to get used to other sticks, (like I had to do multiple times) but no one is willing to play on anything other than what "they" want, which leaves the market a bit out of sync because there is no standard.

Easy solution: detachable stick to put in ball or bat with Real Arcade Pro 2 style base and stock Real Arcade Pro 2 parts. That is the easiest thing to do to make everyone happy because it's already sturdy, the buttons are fine, and detachable stick = better, small packaging.

[Lethargy]

DreamTR: I hear what you're saying, but that's kind of the whole point of this thread no? It's just a vote on what people prefer. I agree if anyone thinks they're gonna get anything thats "brand name", it's just not going to happen... at least not at a level affordable enough to sell more than 5 of them to whoever on here doesn't have a stick yet.

Taking into account that we're most likely not getting anything "brand name" in a stick branded for SF4, (you would know, if I remember correctly you worked for a stick/controller company before no?) or any game for that matter, I think the thread is still just a vote on what style people prefer in general. That being said, being easily mod-able would be great, but what I've always wondered is that are there any better knock off type sticks/buttons out there? If I remember right, the SFAE stick had leaf switches, which to me make absolutely no sense for a game that requires pretty strict timing and movements. And buttons taller than the Empire State Building with some really weird knock of switches, which I think were the same style you would normally use on say a video poker machine, not an video game type machine. Do they have to make these sticks with the absolute bottom of the barrel parts just to move them affodrably, or would a slight bump in quality still be in a reasonable price range?

I'm sure this probably is like beating a dead horse even trying to get an honest result on this thread, as you're talking to a core group of people who want something SO specific, and on top of it probably already have their own sticks and have no real use for another one, and are also pretty much capable of making something on their own if they really wanted to, that it has to be hard for any company to figure out what to make from going on info in this thread alone! That being said, I've always wondering if slightly better quality knock off parts would be a better choice to put in a new product... It's kind of hard to be sold on a product or recommend a product when the experience/word of mouth on it is usually "oh, it's great.... if you go out and spend another $50 on better parts and rip the old ones out for the new ones" At that point, you're basically just paying $60+ dollars for a plastic or wooden box, and still have to do all the work to "fix" it yourself... It becomes disappointing after a while, and could make someone think twice about buying new product knowing that the old one could have been better out of the box if they hadn't cut quite so many corners I would think.

[DreamTR]

Lethargy, I understand your point, and yes, that is what this thread is about, a vote, but I am trying to explain the misinterpretation of things people are saying.


About the SFAC stick, it is a pseudo Super. It works fine on the games you mention, and you forget SFAC has 3rd Strike in it, correct? There really was nothing wrong with that stick, just a preference thing. It wasn't meant for just Hyper Street Fighter II AE. Again, for what it was, the best decisions were made to keep the cost down and keep the package affordable working for two systems out of the box and looked pretty nice, still cheaper and nicer than anything anyone else ever put out. You ever seen the Real Arcade Pelican default buttons????????

AS far as the buttons go, they worked, and they are smoother so people could mash on them. They were the ONLY Japanese replica buttons out there in China to be mass produced, so when you have to order 160,000 buttons, you need to make sure you get them cheap. I know they were "higher" than normal, but again, you're talking preference, and considering this had plexi, T-Molding, and commissioned Udon Art and a pretty nice setup with Xbox and PS2 out of the box for $59.99 in a sturdy package, it's still the best value someone could get.

Now, those were sold wholesale at $42 to retailers, and cost was $27.50 for the whole package.

Remember, you have to rent containers for shipping these things. Everything adds to the cost. Higher the order, the lower the price on the items, but if they don't sell, and you don't have money to pay the factory, it's not a good thing depending on the terms you have agreed upon.

I can personally get in packaging from a factory XBOX/PS2 compatible Real Arcade PELICAN style smaller stick with cheap wood and decent replica arcade parts with detachable stick for $14 each. The rule of the thumb is to triple that to get retail pricing so retailers can make profit. This is why you need to lower those costs when you order units like this.

Imagine Happ/Sanwa buttons and Sanwa stick at $26-28 cost not including the base, not including the packaging, not including the container, not including employee salaries, not including transportation from port to port, not including warehouse logistics and storage, etc.

Now you know why these aren't made mass market in the US and why these kinds of parts are just not feasible on something like this in bulk.

[Dwin]

It seems like the madcatz will be like another namco stick but maybe more moddable.

[SiLLiEMutAfuKA]

I didn't read this whole thread but I just wanted to put my 2 cents in.

I just came back from playing SF4, on American sticks, and I must say that this game is really hard to play on them and it's more meant to be played on Japanese sticks (Like Tekken). For 3S, both is fine but for me SF4 is definitely meant to be played on Japanese sticks, the amount of actions and moves I do would've been so much easier if I didn't have to guesstimate the corners & or bother with the stiffness of the P360's.

[Lethargy]

DreamTR: Thanks for the reply... like I said, always wondered what went behind that type of decision... and now I know. :) The main thing to me seems that they just don't make copy American style parts the way they do Japanese style copy parts. The Japanese copy stuff to me seems a lot closer to what people consider quality parts than American style copies. Oh well.

And yes, I've seen the Pelican buttons... it's one of the many retail sticks I've gutted to make "usable"! :) haha. At least that was an easy, didn't have to solder any new disconnects in that one.

[EvilSamurai]

I am just saying the SFAC stick had some problems that is all. The box was great but it could have used better button placement (stick hole should be centered in between the button holes) and a slightly lower stick. Still infinitely better than the Pelican. The Pelican's case was weak and it's button layout really wonky.

Note that MadCatz is releasing 2 sticks. A consumer one and a Pro one. There is no reason not to go all out on the Pro. Just put a soldered PCB and Namco/ASCII parts in the regul

I do agree with you that most Japanese console sticks have a problem with stability but I just don't like console/sitdown American sticks. American sticks work best when standing up and you can put your whole body into it.

[laugh]

I didn't read this whole thread but I just wanted to put my 2 cents in.

I just came back from playing SF4, on American sticks, and I must say that this game is really hard to play on them and it's more meant to be played on Japanese sticks (Like Tekken). For 3S, both is fine but for me SF4 is definitely meant to be played on Japanese sticks, the amount of actions and moves I do would've been so much easier if I didn't have to guesstimate the corners & or bother with the stiffness of the P360's.
I think your experience was exactly what it was, your experience. I bet any of the OG US players would've played fine on those P360s as long as it wasn't faulty/shitty from the factory. I also don't know how a game "should" be played on a particular style of stick. Your example was Tekken, yet the past winners of Tekken at Evo and SBO have used both styles; circular/bat sticks and square/ball sticks.

BTW, when Korea got SF4 income test cabs, we had Korean sticks which have bat tops and fluid circular rotation, much more like American sticks and definitely far different from Japanese parts. However, we all played fine on them.

I voted for US style parts, cuz I can play on Happ style sticks FAR better than I can ever (try to) play on Japanese style sticks. There are pros and cons for each style due to both familiarity and design IMO.

[DreamTR]

Lethargy: The issue with the buttons is that yes, the factories can make decent replica buttons (no one has seen these style yet) that are concave, but convex buttons (believe it or not, the ones in the SFAC are convex) were my choice, and I did that so the Marvel players could smooth their hands on the controller. It was seriously picking and choosing battles here.

EvilSamurai: Button placement was actually standard for most American cabinets at the time. The stick itself being high? That is what a standard Happ Super looks like when it is in a machine. Believe it or not, not everyone agrees on button layout measurements from the stick either. Japan is smart, they developed a standard, but that has "skewed" the US standard of what we consider correct with the demise of stand alone arcades across the country.

With that being said, if MadCatz has a "pro" version, which I would assume is Real Arcade Pro Sanwa style, then yes, that is a good edition, and probably will only be sold online or through special orders since you can't produce those cheaply. Two versions = great, but I still think there needs to be a bat version. Now, there IS another company doing something, but retailers (yes, blame them) are being wacky with arcade sticks, so that "bat" stick from this other company may not be released.

Silliemuthafucka: I'm sure it's just like laugh said, you aren't used to rock hard sticks. The new Happ 360s have a very, VERY hard spring in them. SHGL Boss used to modify them (when they were Wico versions) to a soft spring, and almost everyone enjoyed them.

Personally, I don't like 360 sticks in anything except for 3rd Strike and Alpha 3. The angles for blocking seem to be a little wider in 3s, and I only have issues finding the block when it comes to controlling Necro's moves, but that depends on the stick, of course. Might not even be the game = P I will still take any 8 way stick over a 360 for CVS2, ST, etc. Try doing Balrog's rush punch at will on 360s and see how many times you can get it out in the heat of the moment, ugh. But hey, I had to get used to them for 10 years almost in tournaments, so I can play on them as well.

[Battosai]

Lethargy: The issue with the buttons is that yes, the factories can make decent replica buttons (no one has seen these style yet) that are concave, but convex buttons (believe it or not, the ones in the SFAC are convex) were my choice, and I did that so the Marvel players could smooth their hands on the controller. It was seriously picking and choosing battles here.

EvilSamurai: Button placement was actually standard for most American cabinets at the time. The stick itself being high? That is what a standard Happ Super looks like when it is in a machine. Believe it or not, not everyone agrees on button layout measurements from the stick either. Japan is smart, they developed a standard, but that has "skewed" the US standard of what we consider correct with the demise of stand alone arcades across the country.

With that being said, if MadCatz has a "pro" version, which I would assume is Real Arcade Pro Sanwa style, then yes, that is a good edition, and probably will only be sold online or through special orders since you can't produce those cheaply. Two versions = great, but I still think there needs to be a bat version. Now, there IS another company doing something, but retailers (yes, blame them) are being wacky with arcade sticks, so that "bat" stick from this other company may not be released.

Silliemuthafucka: I'm sure it's just like laugh said, you aren't used to rock hard sticks. The new Happ 360s have a very, VERY hard spring in them. SHGL Boss used to modify them (when they were Wico versions) to a soft spring, and almost everyone enjoyed them.

Personally, I don't like 360 sticks in anything except for 3rd Strike and Alpha 3. The angles for blocking seem to be a little wider in 3s, and I only have issues finding the block when it comes to controlling Necro's moves, but that depends on the stick, of course. Might not even be the game = P I will still take any 8 way stick over a 360 for CVS2, ST, etc. Try doing Balrog's rush punch at will on 360s and see how many times you can get it out in the heat of the moment, ugh. But hey, I had to get used to them for 10 years almost in tournaments, so I can play on them as well.

Yeah I have a real diffucult time using 360's on SF4 so far, I been having trouble low blocking and doing flash kicks. 8 ways are the best for SF

[Som*]

I voted Japanese since my local arcade has Japanese sticks it makes sense to get use to the same style at home.

[UltraDavid]

Try to think about what's best for the scene here, will you guys? I get that lots of people already in the scene like Japanese-style sticks (a trend that mysteriously and surely un-connectedly began and grew with the popularity of Japanese players), but I don't think we should be the target audience for this. Almost all of us already have sticks, right? And if not, we know where we can go to get them. We don't really need a stick to come with our SF4 console games.

But people who are picking up the SF series back up for the first time in forever definitely do. And considering the stated nostalgia factor that motivated the way this game was made, many of the people who are gonna get it haven't played on a stick since they last played SF2 in the arcades 15 years ago. Those players have an idea of what an arcade style controller should be, and it's with an American-style stick and button layout. Even people who've never played much in the arcade, when they think about what an arcade setup looks like, they think American bat-style stick and 2 horizontal rows of 3 American-style buttons. I guarantee you that the vast majority of players don't even know that ball-style sticks and the Japanese-style button layout exist.

I can just picture one of them getting his stick in the mail: "What... what the crap is this? A ball??"

[NeoPenny]

I would have voted for US style but it seems more natural to play it on jpn style buttons. Now if they want something for HD remix ill def vote for happ.

but for now, yeah im leaning towards jpn style and hope it's something like the VSHG (i really hope it's not those shitty nuby tech sticks like the kof 2001 and such, i don't mean the SF Anniversary stick)

[shtkn]

From a buisness standpoint, I think it should be american style.
SF4 is supposed to evoke feelings of nostalgia for people who aren't super hardcore into street fighter and get them to play again. If you're going after that market, then you should make the sticks familiar to them, which means american style because that way when they see the stick, they'll think "oh wow, it's just like the good ol' days, i gotta play on that!".

I'd have the buttons curved though... otherwise it may hurt their hand after a long time playing.

[caliagent#3]

There really was nothing wrong with that stick, just a preference thing.

There was one thing wrong, and i tested this on quite a few NEW AE sticks. Sometimes the directions would stick when going back to neutral. Other than that it's a pretty good stick to play on when standing up. I can't use it for the life of me sitting down, but that's just preference.

[DreamTR]

There was one thing wrong, and i tested this on quite a few NEW AE sticks. Sometimes the directions would stick when going back to neutral. Other than that it's a pretty good stick to play on when standing up. I can't use it for the life of me sitting down, but that's just preference.

Caliagent, that was faulty on the part itself, and you are right, though that was repaired on later models. Just the leaf switch getting stuck. I hated having to adjust those at NubyTech on returns.

[Dreams-Visions]

I went with a mix. bat-top on a Sanwa stick and Semitsu buttons.

[ulovemikeroch]

I went with a mix. bat-top on a Sanwa stick and Semitsu buttons.
Well you can always mod it yourself if it comes with a balltop.

[dbycrash]

It's all about preference, and the highest selling arcade sticks (mass market) in the USA have been the Pelican Real Arcade Stick, and the Street Fighter Anniversary Stick.

Regardless of what everyone thinks about US style bat sticks, the reason why they were implemented in the arcade in the first place was because Americans were very forceful on the sticks for years and years, and that is basically what Capcom decided upon.

Fast forward to today, Japanese sticks are better if you are used to them, but players in the US will always remember arcades having US style sticks, meaning, casual gamers, more sales. Only the hardcore pay attention to the Japanese *which is why the PS2 Tekken stick sold poorly, and the XBOX 360 Hori is produced in small increments* style sticks, and the uber hardcore would pay attention to them being Sanwa in the US.

Mass producing Sanwa buttons? Not going to be cheap.

Best thing to do is release a stick with interchangeable panels or an interchangeable BAT top which is sturdy.

hmm that is pretty interesting.... that really makes me wonder if japan ever had those sf1 punch button cabinets... i remember being 7-8 years old and those things being near impossible to play for someone with as little strength in my arm as i had back then... this is not to say asians are weak in any way but they are smaller per capita than americans for sure.