BWA: The Boxer Thread (The name's Mike Bison, nyugga!)

[KWASIA]

oh man oh man i can't wait to play street fighter four again....

okay my fellow mike bison players i need help linking his super. of all the matches i had yesterday i couldn't combo his super to save lives. so if anyone finds a way send it my way.

a few things i learned from games yesterday

there is no crouching jab jab rush punch - like street fighter ex you can't chain the same move then go for a special. you can however crouching jab standing jab rush punch which i really need to train my hands to do.

normal buffalo headbutt and turn punches go through projectiles. i think they also go through high attacks i'm not sure.

ex rush punches gain super armor(if this is the correct term). basically rog gets 1 free block while still rushing forward. this allows him to go through attacks such as projectiles and any other high/mid single hit attacks. no one ever tried but i'm pretty sure he can be swept so watch for that.

ex rush push is of an average speed. since it gets super armor it doesn't get super speed. this is fine except from a little bit beyond mid to full screen the opponent can see it coming. so even if ryu shoots a fireball and you rush through it he will have time to block. if you can anticipate the move go for it, but if it's on screen already they can block. i was still using it to get in when people ran away.

buffalo headbutt is a go to move. crouching fierce and standing medium are still great anti airs but more then likely you will be charging down back so weak headbutt is a good move. fierce is great from a crouching strong or after an missed attack from your opponent. though fierce will miss as an anti air the majority of the time.

my favorite new move the overhead rush punch!!!!! this move is AWESOME!!!! like all overheads it has sizable start up but with the combination of the rushing low punch balrog has a nice little mix up game. i caught a lot of people for free with this combination not knowing which i was going for i would do one or the other after a knock down while they where getting up. have to watch out for wake ups though. to perform the overhead you simple hold the button on the low rush punch(charge back to down forward hold punch). very easy very ugly very very good.

now i heard there was charge partitioning in the game but no one new how it worked. supposedly it's different from previous games. so someone figure it out and send it my way.

i had a few 7 game win streaks with rog, like 3 or 4, it was nice...:woot::woot:
i was the loud brother with the sunglasses on my head and a black collar shirt. it was great playing against so many of my peers, my first evo.

[comoesa]

Thats the first time ive seen a premium in the red, I mean how can you pay for a premium but still be in the red, is there no honor between premiums? Anyway on to read the TC's post.


Just read the post, you should go put this in the balrog thread.

[Jimmy Bones]

Is this the Balrog thread?
Im still waiting for it.

[KWASIA]

Thats the first time ive seen a premium in the red, I mean how can you pay for a premium but still be in the red, is there no honor between premiums? Anyway on to read the TC's post.


Just read the post, you should go put this in the balrog thread.

i was red prior to going premium so i went premium so i can see who neg rep me and ask why. since i've received no neg or plus rep

i checked there is no other balrog thread

[Soundbwoy]

Bout time theres a Balrog thread.

blast me if there already is one.

[shatterstar]

change the title to the SF4 Gigaton Punch Thread.

It makes more since.

[Daddyneptune]

Or he can just add "The Boxer Thread" at the end.

[The Mullah]

ex dash punch actually seemed to go through the first hit of anything, including my blanka super. Which was interesting.

[Jimmy Bones]

my favorite new move the overhead rush punch!!!!! this move is AWESOME!!!!

My nigga 'Rog will forever be my main char.



The Mullah: SERIOUSLY?! That's too good.

[Rojo]

I played him like twice...

I am suprised no one is talking about turn punch. It's actually pretty good; fast, goes through fireballs,invincible start up. I didn't see anyone charging the headbutt after. It can also set up the ultra, if the opponent tries to attack after, but risky.

Never did get around charging to giga :(


I'd talk more but seriously tired.

[Gorehound]

I played him all days at EVO!

His crouching Roundhouse is beastly, not only is it fast and safe, but it pushes your opponent on block.

He has an awesome as hell combo:

down Jab Jab, Buffalo Headbutt, juggle with a Super (Kick version) or Ultra after the Buffalo Headbutt.

I heard that you can combo a Rush Uppercut after down Jab Jab, and after the Uppercut you can do another down Jab Jab into another combo.

[Gutter Trash]

nice combos! I'm recording this in my membrane memory banks, can't wait

[chun li's thighs]

oh man oh man i can't wait to play street fighter four again....

okay my fellow mike bison players i need help linking his super. of all the matches i had yesterday i couldn't combo his super to save lives. so if anyone finds a way send it my way.



It's pretty easy. The best way I found is to cancel a punch rush into a super. A typical super combo for me is c. jab, c. jab, jab rush, do the back/forward motion again during the punch rush and hit jab to cancel into the super.

You can probably just get it off pretty easy if you spam back and forth motions while hitting jab. I've been able to get the combo off with to c.jabs and a s.jab into punch rush then super, but not reliably.

[FuguTabetai]

I have a card for M. Bison (Balrog / Boxer) and he's my second behind Zangief. I've had pretty good luck with him because he has some great normal moves.

I really like the turn around punch, and since ST I usually play with the knuckles of my first three fingers on :lk: :mk: :hk: then use the finger tips for :lp: :mp: :hp:

What sucks though is that if I play against anyone that does any tick throwing, I generally have to give up TAPs completely because I need to counter-throw. Also, SA is useful, so I'll lose the :mk: too. So you have a tough choice to make: lose throwing or lose SA?

But the TAPs are really nice. They are invulnerable to sweeps too - or at least I've punched Kens and Ryus who try to throw out cr. roundhouse at me. I haven't got the range worked out for the foot stuff exactly, but they are really useful.

[fireballtrap]

Yesterday, I got to sit down with SF IV for the first time for a long session. I played mainly Boxer the entire time. He's so good. Definitely the best Boxer since ST.

Anyway, what's the deal with the charge :l: :df: :k: move? Is that the uppercut you guys are talking about? What does it do specifically?

Boxer's supers are fucking nice.

[chun li's thighs]

Yesterday, I got to sit down with SF IV for the first time for a long session. I played mainly Boxer the entire time. He's so good. Definitely the best Boxer since ST.

Anyway, what's the deal with the charge :l: :df: :k: move? Is that the uppercut you guys are talking about? What does it do specifically?

Boxer's supers are fucking nice.

It's an overhead punch rush. But it doesn't knockdown and you can combo to c.short after it.

[CWheezy]

Can you EX the TAP?

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

I played all Balrog at Evo and really enjoyed him! Couldn't figure out how to do the overhead, though, and I didn't know about that super juggle. Thanks, guys!

Headbutt after the TAP wasn't working well at all for me. Seemed to lose to sweeps and such at that range. I was having more success with mixing up throw/EX rush/another TAP.

Also low forward is still a nice tick-throw setup. Still links to low strong for B&B combos, and also links to sweep on counter-hit.

Finally, one last important thing I haven't seen mentioned: He can link low jab to low strong now!

Balrog definitely appears solid. My major concern right now is the Gief matchup, as it seems like any blocked rush (unless at the very tip) is a free SPD.

[MOD]

just a combo i know for Boxer

Jumpin anything, c.jab x2, c.forward, headbutt

good fuckin damage

[InBondWeTrust]

From everything I've heard in this thread, Balrog sounds naaaaaasty. He sounds like a very good counter to Sagat and Shotos, based on how easy he can get around the screen.

You basically have to stop fireballing when he has Ultra meter, sooo many options.

EX Rush Punch on reaction? Check.

TAP on reaction? Check. I can see a lot of comebacks with this move against fireball happy opponents. Like an Ali Rope-a-Dope, eat chip damage from fireballs the whole way through the match, just do safe pokes and whatnot. Charge your TAP past 5 or 6 and really catch someone off guard. Or just friggin Ultra his ass using the same tactic. :woot:

[KWASIA]

everything sounds great but there are a few things that need correcting....

unfortunately like street fighter ex you can't do the same move twice or more into a special so c.jab c.jab rush punch doesn't work. instead you have to do c.jab s.jab rush punch or c.jab c.short rush punch. edit: i'm reading alot of people say that you can do crouch jab 3x into headbutt and rush punch now i haven't played since evo but i originally heard different can i get this verified.

also the overhead rush punch is done by doing rogs sweeping rush punch but holding down the button... it is charge :l::df: hold :p:

i heard super cancels work but never had the chance to test them since i didn't want to get off the stick testing something and die.

oh and he doesn't have the gigaton punch super... only the crazy buffalo if thats the right name and a super ex version of the same... sorry fellas...

last why was the title changed on the thread from BWA(BALROG WITH ATTITUDE) this was a NWA(NIGGAS WITH ATTITUDE) reference seeing as rog is the only brother in the game???? just asking seeing as how the gigaton punch isn't in the game.

[Helter Skelter]

why was the title changed on the thread from BWA(BALROG WITH ATTITUDE) this was a NWA(NIGGAS WITH ATTITUDE) reference seeing as rog is the only brother in the game???? just asking seeing as how the gigaton punch isn't in the game.

Yeah. Change it back to BWA, it was alot better.

[InBondWeTrust]

Keep the (name's Mike Bison, nyugga!) though. I lol everytime I read that. I keep hearing Clifton Powell (Pinky from Next Friday) delivering that line and I crack up. That'd be a perfect voice for Boxer, btw.

Anyway back on topic, I don't really mind that much if you can't chain the same move twice into a special, since that might make Boxer a little too nasty, that is if he isn't already being able to eat Blanka's Super with EX Rush Punch and all.

Either way I'm maining him fosho. Uppercutin' them dive kicking Rufus users in the balls yo!

[Pat the Great]

i think his dash uppercut knocks down or keeps them standing depending on how you hold the joystick. I think down/down-toward/down-back hits them up in the air, and all the others keep him standing, but i'm not quite sure.

[InBondWeTrust]

What are the properties of his EX headbutt? Does it hit multiple times? Does it have some extra invinc frames? Does it come out fast enough to make it a viable reversal? (I remember Buffalo Headbutt coming out too slow to be a really good reversal in ST)

[catalyst_nc]

I've added the information on this thread along with other stuff into the Balrog (Boxer) guide on EventHubs.com. Here's a link.

http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/jul/07/balrog-boxer-street-fighter-4-character-guide/

To be honest, the Balrog guide is the one I'm the least sure about at this point. There's some conflicting information on this thread if you can combo two crouching light punches or not.

If you notice any mistakes or have suggestions for more content, please let me know and I'll add it into the guide.

Also I'll give you credit for your contributions. I've listed people on this thread as contributors as well.

[YellowS4]

I personally can't land c.jab, jab x dash, but I've seen it.

Is it possible to juggle off any traded hits? I've been looking into early buffalo x ex buffalo (or something along those lines since I've noticed that only ex moves will juggle, at least with other characters).

[ToOoOomeke]

You can definitely combo c.jabx2 into his dash punch unless I was imagining things for the most part of the day. Also super links of dash punch easily but I can't get the ultra to do so. Is it possible?

I suck I can't get c.foward, c.strong, dash punch to combo. Seems to be harder than in ST.

Oh yeah any advice for fighting keep away guile?

[catalyst_nc]

Thanks for the clarification guys. Sorting through information is actually really time consuming, so it's a big help to know how something works for sure.

I've given both of you credit on the guide page for your help.

[Jay Wang]

I remember doing cr jab x3 into dash punch vs. honda

not sure if they were cancels or links or if it's just an exception because honda is fat

i tried to combo into super/ultra off cr jabs and cr strong but couldn't do it

i find that his headbutt travels alot more in the horizontal direction than in previous games and can be almost used as a "psychic DP" against pokers

i'm gonna play around with him some more today using some of the info in this thread (good stuff btw!)

[happosai311]

Are there any vids of some good Rog matches? I'd like to see his general flow and play style.

[Helter Skelter]

Yeah, I would really like some videos of The Rog.

I especially want to see the double EX Dash Punch combo, and some more solid combos with the character.

I haven't really seen a player or playstyle that has really impressed me with this character yet.

[YellowS4]

I'm awful with Rog since I can't combo worth a damn.

Things I've tried though, like punishing a point blank blocked tiger shot, you cannot hit Sagat at all with either your ultra or super.

[Gorehound]

Damn, I'm having trouble now with Balrog not doing his Ultra involving nothing but uppercuts.

At Evo I was able to pull out his combo easily,

-crouch Jabx2, Rising Headbutt, then juggle them with a Ultra Combo using KKK instead of PPP for all uppercuts.

I tried it out on Friday, but now he only does one uppercut then dash punches after that for his Ultra KKK.

In order for all the Ultra hits to connect after hitting them with a Rising Headbutt (the Rising Headbutt doesn't even have to combo, just as long as you nail them either air or ground), all the hits need to be Uppercuts.

[InBondWeTrust]

Are there any vids of some good Rog matches? I'd like to see his general flow and play style.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=EJj_-TDB6n8

This was posted in the vid thread by MM. Very nice Balrog going against our own MM's Ken.

First good B-Rog I've seen, although in retrospect I personally would've utilized TAPs a little more to get through his fireballs, and thrown in a few more headbutts, but it's easy to dissect a fight after the fact. (And either way, he's a better Boxer than me!)

Watch his good use of EX Rush Punches, and how he stuffs a bunch of FA attempts by Ken.

[Gorehound]

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=EJj_-TDB6n8

This was posted in the vid thread by MM. Very nice Balrog going against our own MM's Ken.

First good B-Rog I've seen, although in retrospect I personally would've utilized TAPs a little more to get through his fireballs, and thrown in a few more headbutts, but it's easy to dissect a fight after the fact. (And either way, he's a better Boxer than me!)

Watch his good use of EX Rush Punches, and how he stuffs a bunch of FA attempts by Ken.

Thanks for the comment, thats me playing Balrog in that vid at Super Arcade :rofl:

I was making some mistakes here and there since those joysticks felt kinda weird. I played at EVO and the sticks felt great on those Taito cabs, but the SA sticks felt different. It's really difficult for me to pull out a crouch Jax2 Headbutt combo there.

EX Dash Punches are his best weapon when he is half or across the screen since Ken/Ryu/Sagat players will bombard you with fireballs.

[InBondWeTrust]

No problem, I gotsta give props to fellow Boxer players.

Did you go on any streaks at SA with him? Did you find out anything else that hasn't been posted here yet?

[Gorehound]

No problem, I gotsta give props to fellow Boxer players.

Did you go on any streaks at SA with him? Did you find out anything else that hasn't been posted here yet?

Oh yeah, I went on 7-8 winning streaks with Boxer before and a majority of the players I faced were Ryu/Ken/Sagat players, I lost to a Honda though.

I heard a lot of the stuff for him before though, lets see what else I could find.

One thing I saw from that vid is that I should of used was his beastly crouching Roundhouse, that move is fast, safe, has long reach and pushes your opponent so they won't throw or DP you.

Against Zangief players, I use a crouching Jab then a crouching Roundhouse. It doesn't combo but in case Zangief gets close to you, it prevents him from grabbing you.

[terracotta]

good stuff guys. i tried Balrog tonight, came up w some questions. didn't do bad considering the only other Rog i've played was A3 X-Rog and CvS2 Rog.

- his jab dash straight is slower/longer ranged than i'm used to, so i seem to walk backwards a little more often to get the spacing right. i know in A3/CvS2 you could pretty much jab dash straight after a blocked max range fierce and they didn't have a big window to do anything, i.e. it was a tighter poke string.

- how are you guys finding low fierce? it seemed reliable against jump-happy Zangiefs, but not sure how it does in general. is stand strong any good as anti-air?

- still having mixed success with the headbutts - if Ryu jumps right on top of me i end up slipping under him w the headbutt, which isn't always terrible, but i'd rather hit him. if anyone knows what the EX headbutt does please share..

- his jump is huge. i'm used to just jumping in over and over with Rog with his low jump (and esp in A3 with that godly j.jab)

- got a LOT of throws in, mostly off whiffed dash uppers, some whiffed headbutts.

- what the hell is that charge b, df+k? it looks like a diagonal corkscrew punch. someone said it was an overhead but i think that someone got mixed up with another move. any clue on its properties?

- epic range on low strong. i was playing him right after Guile and was always surprised when his strong hit when i knew Guile's would miss. i'm used to it having obscene priority in A3.. wondering if anyone's had success whoring it as utterly as it could.

- do we have a list of characters yet who can duck standing fierce and dash straight?

- can you juggle with TAP?

actually.. we need a breakdown on his EX moves. are all his dash punches EXable? do they all get 1 hit autoguard?

[DutchieD]

This might be a stupid question, but when you are charging tap, do you throw instead of punch when you hit LP? and SA instead of punch when you hit MP for that matter?

[XnoyHoy]

A couple of things i found out with boxers ultra after my third long day of playing at Supers..

Punch Ultra after FA doesn't hit clean.. the first couple of hits land but the other character flops and falls before the rest of the ultra lands.. Ill try kick ultra today to see if it has same results

Second Giefs normal lariat cleanly beats Ultra... terrible..

Interestingly i ex dash punch right when a ryu player ultra, it showed my glowing arm right through ryu head while it was in its cinematics and then suffice to say hits boxer clean, not even a trade, expected but interesting..

And last... Rufus is anti-Boxer (maybe anti- everyone)...
If he has a super or ultra at all DO NOT USE ANY ATTACK DASH COMMANDS... a fast reaction timed Rufus will super on sight.. sadly i thought regular dash will fool him to no avail.. and of course jumping is NOT A OPTION... so boxer is left with.. walking, very slowly, against a keep away rufus.. and don't get me started with that dive kick..

Just think 3s chun, but her SA2 also is a perfect anti-air type of tactics.. scary, a lot of sitting there waiting to see what the other person does..

So Ill be playing again today anyone got any thing you want me to try?

[Helter Skelter]

Seriously, if you guys have access to the game and are discovering stuff.
Can you please record some match videos?

Oh and does this Zero 3 combo work?
Close Standing Short, Close Standing Short, Crouching Short, Short Dash Punch.

[shubacca]

What sucks though is that if I play against anyone that does any tick throwing, I generally have to give up TAPs completely because I need to counter-throw. Also, SA is useful, so I'll lose the :mk: too. So you have a tough choice to make: lose throwing or lose SA?


I encountered that same problem yesterday. Fortunately, the guys I were playing weren't used to throwing with the jabshort. I gave up the TAP charge with each SA, but after dash cancelling out of SA, I found that there was enough time to get at least a level 1 TAP.

i found cr.jabx2, cr.strong, dashing straight to combo pretty well. I think it's possible to throw in another jab in the beginning but I haven't tried it yet. I hope my observations were right... I'm having a hard time adjusting to character hit reactions... sometimes when you hit them with certain attacks it feels like they're standing still.. and I can't read that tiny combo display sometimes.

Specials and dash cancels cover so much ground. Has anyone tried to do crazy block strings with dash cancels?

[XnoyHoy]

FA into Kick ultra is not a clean hit also.. the last big uppercut misses, but you would recover before your opponent


i found cr.jabx2, cr.strong, dashing straight to combo pretty well. I think it's possible to throw in another jab in the beginning but I haven't tried it yet. I hope my observations were right... I'm having a hard time adjusting to character hit reactions... sometimes when you hit them with certain attacks it feels like they're standing still.. and I can't read that tiny combo display sometimes.

Specials and dash cancels cover so much ground. Has anyone tried to do crazy block strings with dash cancels?

I've been opting to use that combo because of how easy it is

Try

cr.jabx2, cr.strong, dashing overhead then Cr. jab, cr. strong, dashing low or high, add ex headbutt at the end if its block and they try to do something

nasty mix up game and easy to do

With FA dash cancel i would just add it after any dash attack and and throw.. I'm sure I'm wasting meter with that



About Focus Attacks.. Anyone find a successful combo after one?
Seems, Like the ultra, they would flop after the initial hit so nothing can get comboed after...

after the FA I tried Cr. Strong into all the dashing commands and none hit.. boxer ends up below the flopping character after the strong hit, obviously whiffing the dash attack, while they land and recover before you..

After a while i found just getting a knockdown after a FA with a Cr. Roundhouse or a headbutt was good enough for me

[Helter Skelter]

THA ROG IS OFFICIALLY SICK!!

[nicovideo 2008-08-22] STREET FIGHTER 4 対戦09 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8NRM5no7eE&fmt=18)
@ 0:29 - EX Dashing Upper, Crouching Jab, Chrouching Jab, Buffalo Headbutt.
@ 0:34 - Jumping Fierce, Crouching Jab, Crouching Jab, Buffalo Headbutt.
@ 1:15 - EX Dashing Uppper, Crouching Jab, Crouching Jab, Buffalo Headbutt, ULTRA!

[nicovideo 2008-08-22] STREET FIGHTER 4 対戦10 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnefhLJlvq0&fmt=18)
@ 0:32 - Jumpiing Fierce, Crouching Jab, Crouching Jab, Crouching Jab, Buffalo Headbutt, ULTRA!
@ 1:25 - EX Overhead Dashing Punch, Roundhouse.

[nicovideo 2008-08-22] STREET FIGHTER 4 対戦12 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__iniAmI2ns&fmt=18)

[terracotta]

ownership.

[Helter Skelter]

[nicovideo 2008-08-22] STREET FIGHTER 4 対戦13 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5zXuYP4I94&fmt=18)

[nicovideo 2008-08-22] STREET FIGHTER 4 対戦14 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNyDCxU75hU&fmt=18)

[nicovideo 2008-08-22] STREET FIGHTER 4 対戦15 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz7PCm0LwNA&fmt=18)

[nicovideo 2008-08-22] STREET FIGHTER 4 対戦16 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC8WxFqp2bk&fmt=18)

[nicovideo 2008-08-22] STREET FIGHTER 4 対戦11 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZxTP9RaAos&fmt=18)
@ 2:14 - Jumping Fierce, Crouching Strong, Crouching Jab, Fierce Buffalo Headbutt, ULTRA!
@ 2:24 - EX Flip Kick Thingy Doodah, Dash Cancel, ULTRA = OH MY GAWD!

[nicovideo 2008-08-22] STREET FIGHTER 4 対戦17 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT5hR157V34&fmt=18)

[Helter Skelter]

At full meter do you think it's possible to do:

J.HP, Cr.HP, EX Dashing Upper, Cr.HP, EX Dashing Upper, Cr.HP, EX Dashing Upper, Cr.HP, EX Dashing Upper, Cr.LP, Cr.LP, Cr.LP, Buffalo Headbutt, ULTRA!

[kevgeez]

I really wish they used Balrog's Alpha voice.
That guy was a demon.

Charging wile playing is still too difficult!
They should have made it one button instead of holding 3.

[MAGUS1234]

Rufus getting scared

[Gorehound]

Played Boxer again, I got another 10+ wins streaks :bgrin:

I figured out that doing an Ultra after a Headbutt is more of a gamble because he doesn't do all Uppercuts during the Ultra, only once I got it to connect when he did all Uppercuts.

Boxer is a not only a great rush character, but a great zoner too. His best zoning attacks are his crouching Fierce against Anti-air, crouching Roundhouse, and his usual standing Fierce. He is a great Zangief killer if you use his Zoning strategies.

The only thing that sucks is that we are not going to able to choose his alt Apollo Creed costume in the arcade since you need a SF4 Card :sad:

[DutchieD]

This might be a stupid question, but when you are charging tap, do you throw instead of punch when you hit LP? and SA instead of punch when you hit MP for that matter?

Anyone?

[polarity]

So as some have theorized, apparently he DOES have a loop with [cr.Jab x2, EX Dash Upper] x N. It also apparently builds a LOT of meter, so you can do it many times over if you have a full bar to start with.

[XnoyHoy]

seems like the jap boxers are opting to do just straight C. jabs into dash punches.. not much c. forwards or c. strong chains...

damage reduction is a bitch when it comes to boxers ultra combos tho

keeping the ultra for wakeups or reversals might be a better option, just having it scares the shit out of some people, 50% damage is no joke

>Gorehound are you the one with the pony tail that i taught how to use the dash overhead at supers?

[Raph_Stryker]

s

>Gorehound are you the one with the pony tail that i taught how to use the dash overhead at supers?

yo, let me in on that secret i couldnt figure it out myself, tho i only tried when i did ex dash punches so i dont know if you can do the dash overhead from that. I need to get in the mood of just doing dash punches to pressure and poke so i wasnt rushing as hard as i should. cr. jab x2, headbutt is too cold

now if someone else could confirm that whole (cr. jab x2, ex dash upper) x n that be super. sucks that it gets ducked by zangief..which surprised me.

[shubacca]

After pressuring the guy into the corner, I often found myself getting pushed back out to a spot not to far away, but far enough to bait a fireball. And I always found myself without a TAP ready. Anyone know if you can TAP xx super?

boxer is hella fun.

[jurjur]

Why not just charge a fierce headbutt? I can hit people out of their fireballs on slowish reactions.

[MOD]

I see alot of people saying they can't get all uppercuts for rogs super.

It usually works everytime for me if i drum the kicks during the super.

Balrog is beastmode

[Gorehound]

>Gorehound are you the one with the pony tail that i taught how to use the dash overhead at supers?

Yep, that was me, I heard you had to hold a button to do the dash overhead, I just didn't knew what button though.

GGs though, Boxer is beastly :bgrin:

I see alot of people saying they can't get all uppercuts for rogs super.

It usually works everytime for me if i drum the kicks during the super.

Balrog is beastmode

How do you make sure the Ultra does nothing but Uppercuts?

[Raph_Stryker]

cr. roundhouse loses to Gief's SPD

at least the start up frames of the cr. roundhouse. I guess if he is on you, and your blocking, you could just headbutt, but that might trade... no clue really. EX rushes keep him from just lariating your pokes, just watch out for the ex banishing flat.

[MOD]

Yep, that was me, I heard you had to hold a button to do the dash overhead, I just didn't knew what button though.

GGs though, Boxer is beastly :bgrin:



How do you make sure the Ultra does nothing but Uppercuts?

when you do the super or ultra, you need to press kicks in order for him to do uppercuts. Just drum the kick buttons while hes doing the super.

I'm gonna post some boxer stuff.

Boxer vs Gief

Boxers EX headbutt on wake up will take him out of range of cross up body splash. This is so useful because giefs just abuse that all day on wake up. just watch for the gief to jump and its a get out of corner free card.

Use S. Fierce all you can. It out ranges and beats giefs pokes pretty well.

You can punish whiffed lariat with light dash punch timed just right. You can usually get a gief to whiff lariat anytime, but if they decide to play safe, start whiffing S.Fierces. then punish.

C.Fierce can beat lariat at times. Not sure how it works yet. But I've stuffed lariat with it alot. I think as long as you hit the bottom part of his arm and not his body, you will be ok.

Jump back Fierce is amazing! if you come in with a TAP or dash punch just jump back fierce afterwards. If they throw lariat or 360 you will bust them in the face. The range on jump back fierce is disgusting on gief, so abuse that.

I've seen people punish lariat with ultra from pretty far away. not sure how that works yet either. Gotta wait for when you think lariat will end.

S. strong, C.Fierce, Neutral jump Roundhouse, Jumping Fierce and Jumping strong are all really good against zangief in the air.

Mixup between dash punch and dash upper. when you whiff dash upper, jump back fierce.

Ex Banishing hand is a giant pain in the ass, it beats ultra and super clean.

Sweep as a meaty is not good. It can be SPD'd even at max distance. I find throwing any meaties on gief that aren't jabs or jump ins to be extremely dangerous.

I'll post more on other matchups later. go go boxer.

[xMo0xMo0x]

surprised this hasnt been posted but.. ultra and super done with kicks beats lariats

anyway, ive been using boxer since day1 here in tokyo and ive made a few observations:
- horizontal and vertical charge are stored independently (like ST) so u can do low dash punches and follow with headbutts.. or against scrubs: whiff headbutt, land, ultra
- s.mp is good for anti-crossup
- all normals can be SADC'd.. so i do a lot of blocked s.mk or s.fp xx SA then dash and whatever
- i swear i got TAP xx SA, dash, c.mp, headbutt to work but it just popped into my head now
- charge partition exists so u can hit SA guard crush, dash, c.mp, headbutt (but i havent gotten this consistently)
- basically i SADC a lot for surprise factor and to gain ground.. otherwise save the super for c.lp, c.lp, dash punch xx super

anyone got good setups after dash punch SA cancels? ive been just mixing between throws and trips

[terracotta]

can't Zangief jab SPD Rog out of EX dash upper/straight?

[XnoyHoy]

surprised this hasnt been posted but.. ultra and super done with kicks beats lariats

- horizontal and vertical charge are stored independently (like ST) so u can do low dash punches and follow with headbutts.. or against scrubs: whiff headbutt, land, ultra


good shit with the kick ultra beating lariat... should have tried that.. no more random lariats

When im at chip damage death and turtling fight from full screen the headbutt land to ultra saves lives! Not just scrubs too, i got it to land on Valle when he tried to ex scissors kick for chip, best way to bait that shit


terra cotta-
ya pretty much, before and after..

[shubacca]

Why not just charge a fierce headbutt? I can hit people out of their fireballs on slowish reactions.

I would guess that you'd be airborne by the time you hit the guy in the corner which would probably prevent you from canceling it into super. But if you could cancel from TAP? That'd be nice to have. Can't get to a cab anytime soon...Anyone?

[kevgeez]

Question:

1-Can anyone tell me the point of Dashing uppercut if it doesnt hit crouching people?
I mean besides its anti-air....does it have a point in combos besides looking cool?

2-What is Balrog's one move that can totally intimidate an opponent and get into their head...like how Zangeif has the SPD. Basically a move that makes your opponent freeze and think twice about things.

[Leebee Link]

well you can link after EX dash upper

and whiffing dash uppers on someone crouching is great for throw mixups. He recovers really fast from it

[MOD]

Question:

1-Can anyone tell me the point of Dashing uppercut if it doesnt hit crouching people?
I mean besides its anti-air....does it have a point in combos besides looking cool?

2-What is Balrog's one move that can totally intimidate an opponent and get into their head...like how Zangeif has the SPD. Basically a move that makes your opponent freeze and think twice about things.

1. The point is to mixup between block strings. If you do a block string like c.jab x2 c.short into dashing upper, the upper will whiff and you can go for a another block string, throw, jump back fierce, or some other stuff. most people are waiting for you to whiff these and you eat an ultra in the process. Its a decent mixup anyways if you have been adding pressure already.

2. Headbutt for sure. And dashpunches add the damage real quick. but headbutt is your dp and it leads in ultra. Nobody wants to get hit by headbutt, and that means that most people are going to fight boxer on the ground when he has bar. Its also one of many ways to close gaps between you and fireball users.

[kevgeez]

another question:

I love the turn around punch, but i'm used to playing on a ps2 controller and charging by holding L1.
In the arcades it is really hard to play while holding down 3 punches, and friggin impossible to hold all 3 kicks and do anything else.

Do most of you Balrogers ever charge or is it just a waste of time?


...this i why i cant wait to get it on console. I need that L1 and R1.

[ChaiThai]

another question:

I love the turn around punch, but i'm used to playing on a ps2 controller and charging by holding L1.
In the arcades it is really hard to play while holding down 3 punches, and friggin impossible to hold all 3 kicks and do anything else.

Do most of you Balrogers ever charge or is it just a waste of time?


...this i why i cant wait to get it on console. I need that L1 and R1.

I'm not all that great at it but I generally charge for a TAP as the round starts against any shoto, and mainly use dashes and headbutt for the round. If I have to I'll use my thumb for shorts as I charge for a quick TAP.

[polarity]

friggin impossible to hold all 3 kicks and do anything else.

no it isn't. step your game up son.

[Saotome Kaneda]

no it isn't. step your game up son.
not often that I agree with you. =/



Step your game up, bro, there's ways of integrating TAP into your game.

[Jimmy Bones]

Use the palm of your hand.
Thats how i do.

[ViciousSLASH]

What does TAP stand for? I know what it is, but am just curious.

I have to learn how to play as Balrog because I pledged myself to only play as American characters in SF4.

U-S-A!

EDIT - I am so stupid. *sigh*

[Humbag]

Turn Around Punch

[MOD]

Actually as someone previously mentioned, you can't hold taps and tech throws. Playing boxer ST style with your palm/knuckles on the kicks isn't really a great idea or as necessary in this game.

You also can't saving attack either which is starting to look like a really nice AA for rog

[Gutter Trash]

Use the palm of your hand.
Thats how i do.

I had the most mutant way of holding the 3 kicks.

Thumb on LK, ring finger on MK and pinky on HK.

My index and middle fingers were free to use on the punch buttons.

And it was darn uncomfortable

[terracotta]

^ dude wtf

[MOD]

Recently noted

I find that that the dash cannon (what im calling the move where you do dash upper and hold it) will hit people who jump backwards. This move can be really useful in certain matchups, like claw and dictator. Or you can actually just watch and see if anyone ever jumps backwards and bust them on reaction. This move also breaks SA and knocks down. Its kind of an interesting move.

Boxer actually has alot of moves to break SA but i can't remember them all.

Other quick note. I knocked down a chun in the corner with sweep. I walked forward and charged SA. Chun did EX bird kick, and boxer ducked under it and smashed her with lvl3. Boxers hit box for his SA charge is small and low, I wonder how many other things it can duck.

[XnoyHoy]

Mentioned in SF4 Frame Data thread needs to be in here tho..

Credit Jinrai:

SA breaker

"Balrog: Low Rush Upper, Overhead Rush, TAP, EX Low Rush Upper, EX Overhead Rush, Super, Ultra..."

Other characters only have 2-3 breakers, don't we feel special?

[Jimmy Bones]

I had the most mutant way of holding the 3 kicks.

Thumb on LK, ring finger on MK and pinky on HK.

My index and middle fingers were free to use on the punch buttons.

And it was darn uncomfortable

:wtf:

word.

[MOD]

Played a bunch today. Beat some decent people. Still learning some matchups.

Boxer vs Guile.

In general this is a pain in the ass.

TAP or headbutt is good and necessary in the matchup. TAP is especially good and goes through sonic booms.

EX dash punch will eat sonic booms for lunch, and i found a mix between ex dash punch, and ex dash sweep/ex dash overhead was good and it worked from time to time and was safe. watch out for EX sonic booms.

Don't bother trying to meaty guile, he will almost always beat you with somersault SA cancel dash back. feel free to meaty if he has no bar and no ultra, but you run the risk of just getting regular somersaulted. Best to block and punish guile on wake up. A dirty trick that can be used is right when guile is about to wake up, jump over him in the corner and hold forward. Flash kick will whiff and he will eat ultra when he lands.

When you dash punch in with whatever, hold tap and release it right after the dash punch is blocked. If they threw crouching anything they eat tap pretty much.this is good because guiles love to throw crouching everything.

Punish flashkicks with ultra or c.mp to dash punch.

Jumping in at crouching or even standing guile is not recommended, flash kick beats all of his air normals clean.

Block alot against guile and punish hard. Ultra does all the damage you need.

Don't attempt to ultra through sonic booms, guile will almost always be safe and can punish boxers ultra with ultra/super/Flash kick. If you can predict well though, go for headbutt into ultra.

Guile will be crossing up boxer alot with j.short. Ex headbutt isn't good for escaping alot because you eat sweep or even ultra if the guile thinks you will use it to escape. try and block it, SA dash cancel, or ex dashpunch is good too.

[polarity]

Can you bait wakeup flashkicks by backdashing from a range where you'd still be able to meaty if they didn't flashkick?

[tempest]

how does rog stack up againest say sagat?

[MOD]

how does rog stack up againest say sagat?

I actually don't know a whole lot about this matchup yet because I actually don't see too many sagats.

Its pretty much a ground game, and in sagats favor. Sagat has dp and cancel which can beat out alot of rogs shit. Rog has heatbutt to ultra which is good but you have to get close to sagat which is hard. Headbutt is super useful in this matchup.

TAP is useful to a point, but tiger shits just keep comming and comming.

Dash punch loses to tiger knee which just blows ass. can't rush in on sagat too well and its super easy for sagat to push you away. Sagat can't really rush down boxer as well as he wants to though, and is still a keep away game for Sagat.

Punish tiger bullshit with ultra, Get in some dash combos where you can, use sweep, and TAP. Throw headbutts to get around fireballs and walk sagat into the corner.

All in all not a great matchup for boxer, but its not entirely different than Ryu and Ken per say. I'd say he has a good chance to win.

[Saotome Kaneda]

Guile has always been a goofy matchup for 'rog

[tempest]

I actually don't know a whole lot about this matchup yet because I actually don't see too many sagats.

Its pretty much a ground game, and in sagats favor. Sagat has dp and cancel which can beat out alot of rogs shit. Rog has heatbutt to ultra which is good but you have to get close to sagat which is hard. Headbutt is super useful in this matchup.

TAP is useful to a point, but tiger shits just keep comming and comming.

Dash punch loses to tiger knee which just blows ass. can't rush in on sagat too well and its super easy for sagat to push you away. Sagat can't really rush down boxer as well as he wants to though, and is still a keep away game for Sagat.

Punish tiger bullshit with ultra, Get in some dash combos where you can, use sweep, and TAP. Throw headbutts to get around fireballs and walk sagat into the corner.

All in all not a great matchup for boxer, but its not entirely different than Ryu and Ken per say. I'd say he has a good chance to win.

i was just wondering i know when this game breaks out here in N.C there going be ton of sagat players, who are going spam the screen with tiger knees, and fireballs, i guess take your time and look for holes, and hope for the best. thanks for the info

[polarity]

TAP and headbutt go through fireballs, and his EX dash punches have 1 hit of super armor..... I don't think fireballs should be too much of a problem for Rog

[tempest]

TAP and headbutt go through fireballs, and his EX dash punches have 1 hit of super armor..... I don't think fireballs should be too much of a problem for Rog

yea sorry noob was comming out of me when i said fireballs.

[ChaiThai]

I'm going to chalk this up to being a slow learner but I found a fight against Bison (Dic) to be frustrating. Didn't see a lot of chances to punish outside of avoiding headstomps and headbutt lost to scissor kick quite a few times. Didn't get a chance to do many EX dashes, so that may be an alternative to get in.

[kevgeez]

not often that I agree with you. =/



Step your game up, bro, there's ways of integrating TAP into your game.

Wow, thanks for the detailed explaination dickhead

To the guy playing finger twister to use TAP: wtf?
That hurts the middle of my hand and i was only just now trying it out.

To the guy who said TAP isn't needed in SF4: No, its not but imagine charging that bitch for 15 seconds and connecting into a combo. Nasty.
But i understand not needing it because SF4 has too many supers in one round...they need to make it a bit slower like 3rd strike.
I play a good honda player and i swear he did his super 5 times a round, add that on to the fact that its kinda powerful....

[kane_warhead]

Wow, thanks for the detailed explaination dickhead

Wow, you're gonna get banned.

[MOD]

Actually I like the finger twister idea

I'm actually gonna try that because you might be able to tech throws with your thumb on short.

Ill let everyone know when my hand becomes crippled and deformed.

Edit: When SK's revenge meter is full, hes gonna FA cancel into ban ultra.

[Saotome Kaneda]

Wow, thanks for the detailed explaination dickhead

You're welcome, since you obviously never played him before back in the SF2 days. The arguably best way of charging TAP and still being able to attack is to put the top of your palm on KKK, and tap the other buttons with the base of your fingers. It's a lot less work than it sounds, it'll still hurt, but not as much as that retard way the other guy was talking about. You shouldn't have to keep your hand like that too long unless you absolutely need to have a long or constant charged TAP threat. Unlike back in SF2(CE, HF and ST) you don't need to have a TAP in order to deal with certain threats anymore.


So, like I said before, STEP YO GAME UP. It's not that hard. It took me 20 minutes to readjust to it for picking up 'rog again in AE, and it's still annoying.

And next time watch your fucking mouth.

[DS]

Wow, that dude got angry because you told them to step their game up? Such a sad world we live in. Niggas need to step their Boxer up. Seriously.

[shubacca]

SK is just.

[dbycrash]

ive always wanted to get buff with boxer but i cant constantly hold TAP because ive been graced with asian girl hands.. sucks

[polarity]

yo dbycrash i just wanted to say thanks for all the music on soulseek

[PENETRATOR]

Got some Qs, namely can you supercancel the TAP?

Also what are the specifics on the 'torpedo punch' I've been hearing about, it's the punch that goes diagonally upwards isn't it? But what's the input combination and its purpose (knockdown??)


yo dbycrash i just wanted to say thanks for all the music on soulseek

you're welcome

[kevgeez]

Wow, that dude got angry because you told them to step their game up? Such a sad world we live in. Niggas need to step their Boxer up. Seriously.

No Iceman, i called him a dickhead because he decided to come at me all crazy.
I dont care if he's a Mod.
The reason i posted the question is to find out different ways to use TAP, which other members did without being pricks about it.
Its obvious i have to step my boxer game up, why else would i be asking?

[Helter Skelter]

next time watch your fucking mouth.

Because you're a mod?

[Capn Spanky]

Wow, that dude got angry because you told them to step their game up? Such a sad world we live in. Niggas need to step their Boxer up. Seriously.

Sorry DS, but I like to keep my boxers brief. (That pun is worthy of a GD news article.)

No Iceman

You're dangerous.


Since I don't have any access to SF4 at the moment, I was curious as to how similar SF4 Boxer is to ST Boxer. Is there a learning curve?

[ChaiThai]

Since I don't have any access to SF4 at the moment, I was curious as to how similar SF4 Boxer is to ST Boxer. Is there a learning curve?
This was actually a weird debate I had with a friend. I felt that he played very similar to his ST form, while a friend of mine said that he felt stiff and unfamiliar. I honestly could see his basics having changed much since ST, as far as a learning curve goes. I jumped right in and could do most of the basics.

[terracotta]

got an 8-win streak today until Guile came along..

wish i'd read MOD's post before then. i think i could try jumping over him on wakeup to try and land the TAP as he flash kicks.

does standing fierce hit a crouching Guile?

[MOD]

does standing fierce hit a crouching Guile?

It does hit crouching guile. But i recommend using sweep instead. Its goes far as hell and is fast. I beats alot of guiles standing pokes and even beats alot of his crouching pokes. It also trades with sonic boom and can stuff flash kick on start up.

Although standing fierce is an awesome poke. i say go for either.

Edit: because i got boxer questions

Anyone know if ex headbutt is comboable after headbutt or hitting people out the air dash upper.

Does tap do more damage is you hold it longer like in ST. I haven't seen it do more damage upon holding it longer, but maybe i just wasn't paying good attention.

on that note, anyone know anything that combos into tap. I also noticed tap does sick chip damage.

I'm going to try all of these out next time i play.

[FuguTabetai]

TAP does more damage the longer you hold it down. I haven't found a reliable way to work a high charge TAP into my game though. I find having one TAP charged incredibly useful because of the previously-mentioned trick of going through sweeps and stuff. Also, I love TAP, rush punch, TAP, headbutt strings of rush downs.

Bison has two charge + hold button down moves now: punch for the overhead (really useful, but people are now catching on and block up based on reaction) and kick for the diagonal angled punch. I like that punch a lot - it doesn't whiff completely on crouching opponents (although it might whiff on smaller ones, I can't remember what happens against saw, blanka or chun-li) and if it hits them it sends them flying. It just looks cool. Sometimes whiffed kick into throw is nice because the recovery on that is *fast*.

[Saotome Kaneda]

No Iceman, i called him a dickhead because he decided to come at me all crazy.
I dont care if he's a Mod.
The reason i posted the question is to find out different ways to use TAP, which other members did without being pricks about it.
Its obvious i have to step my boxer game up, why else would i be asking?
Go back through the posts and point out where I "came at you all crazy". Only 2 other posters came out with TAP methods, and I broke it down a little further than both of them(although the dude with the fucked up hands is still wtf-worthy). I suggest you get that knot out of your panties, and stop relying on L1/R1, aka step that game up. I didn't call you names, so you have no right to say shit back.

So watch your mouth. Also I find it cute that you don't have any words for polarity. Care to explain that? Or did you feel that since I'm the mod you had to wave your e-peen around?
Because you're a mod?

No, because when you pop off for no reason it makes you look pretty dumb. You know, kinda like your post.

[Helter Skelter]

No, because when you pop off for no reason it makes you look pretty dumb. You know, kinda like your post.

Erm, I was asking a serious question.

[Saotome Kaneda]

Erm, I was asking a serious question.
Ah, in that case, yes, it's because I'm a mod. :confused: Nevermind. lol

[kevgeez]

TAP does more damage the longer you hold it down. I haven't found a reliable way to work a high charge TAP into my game though. I find having one TAP charged incredibly useful because of the previously-mentioned trick of going through sweeps and stuff. Also, I love TAP, rush punch, TAP, headbutt strings of rush downs.
.

ANYWAY...to get back to boxing...

Fugu, are you saying you connect a TAP after a rush punch? I haven't played in a week but i'm sure the startup time alone prevents that...

Hey is anyone else hoping another boxer comes out for the console version?
Two boxers is one thing a Street fighter........or any fighter i can think of, has never had.
Even if it is that snobby Dudley.

[Sim-Sational]

edit: i'm reading alot of people say that you can do crouch jab 3x into headbutt and rush punch now i haven't played since evo but i originally heard different can i get this verified.


Wassup folks. I have been out here at San Jose State, and i agree that Rog is the shit.

c. jab c.jab rush punch works, but you have to buffer it quickly. Using negative edge (c. jab, -> + hold c. jab, release c. jab) works a bit better. since c. jab c. jab s. jab does not connect on smaller characters (like Ken), I kept trying this and verified it.

Headbutt has insane range. I'm talking if your shoto enemy starts off the round with a fireball, you can counter with fierce headbutt - and headbutt goes thru the fireball and hits him. Almost HALF A SCREEN AWAY. NASTY.

Wake up ex rush punch is the hotness.

I hate the matchup against the Dictator.

I'm going to try some of the headbutt juggle maddness tonite. This game takes me back to 1995.

Boxer Bison, nyugga. XD

[Saotome Kaneda]

ANYWAY...to get back to boxing...

Fugu, are you saying you connect a TAP after a rush punch? I haven't played in a week but i'm sure the startup time alone prevents that...

Hey is anyone else hoping another boxer comes out for the console version?
Two boxers is one thing a Street fighter........or any fighter i can think of, has never had.
Even if it is that snobby Dudley.
He probably means as a blockstring, since that also worked back in ST and HF.

[Sim-Sational]

edit: i'm reading alot of people say that you can do crouch jab 3x into headbutt and rush punch now i haven't played since evo but i originally heard different can i get this verified.


Wassup folks. I have been out here at San Jose State, and i agree that Rog is the shit.

c. jab c.jab rush punch works, but you have to buffer it quickly. Using negative edge (c. jab, -> + hold c. jab, release c. jab) works a bit better. since c. jab c. jab s. jab does not connect on smaller characters (like Ken), I kept trying this and verified it.

Headbutt has insane range. I'm talking if your shoto enemy starts off the round with a fireball, you can counter with fierce headbutt - and headbutt goes thru the fireball and hits him. Almost HALF A SCREEN AWAY. NASTY.

Wake up ex rush punch is the hotness.

I hate the matchup against the Dictator.

I'm going to try some of the headbutt juggle maddness tonite. This game takes me back to 1995.

Boxer Bison, nyugga. XD

[Sim-Sational]

I'm going to chalk this up to being a slow learner but I found a fight against Bison (Dic) to be frustrating. Didn't see a lot of chances to punish outside of avoiding headstomps and headbutt lost to scissor kick quite a few times. Didn't get a chance to do many EX dashes, so that may be an alternative to get in.

Yeah, matches against a decent Dictator suck. I used a lot of ex rush punches, mix 'em up high and low... and used sweep to punish his whiffs... generally a patient ground game, i guess.

[SEbastard]

FInally got a chance to play last night at SJSU. I gotta say, I'm quite impressed with balrog in this game.

Finally made the turn punch a viable move. Crouching roundhouse makes all the difference in the world. Fast as hell, and does good damage.

Glad to see the headbutt is back, and even better than before. Lots of potential on this one.

As an aside, though, does Ono have some sort of vendetta against Honda? It was as if someone sat down and purposely decided to remove, or slow down, everything that made him fun to play. He is now almost unplayable. People were bitching about the tranny (c.viper) being bad.....but shit. it hurt to play honda. Only tried him once.....maybe I just missed something.

[kevgeez]

I think i like Balrog in every version except SA3. His voice there was amazing though.

I'm a little pissed so many people use him on ST for GGPO.

[FuguTabetai]

ANYWAY...to get back to boxing...

Fugu, are you saying you connect a TAP after a rush punch? I haven't played in a week but i'm sure the startup time alone prevents that...


No, I meant use a TAP after a block rush punch. It will often go through the longer cr. attacks (if they do a jab or short they can usually hit you) and is reasonably safe on block if the blocked rush punch was spaced well.

[MOD]

played some more today.

Boxer vs Ken

This matchup is all about getting ken into the corner. You can't rush down ken like you want to thanks to jump back Rh combos. Even neutral jump. Just ken in the corner and apply some pressure. Then block and punish any attempts to jump.

Ken will abuse f.mk to c.mk fireball. You can tap through the fireball but its just usually for chip damage. to stop him from abusing f.mk you can, EX dash punch or Use jumpins and bust him.

Watch out for the retarded kara throw. All i can say is jumping straight up can be your friend after jab stings. And make sure to punish whiffs if you have ultra.

Kens shoryuken can be easily confirmed, so not alot of kens are using Shoryuken on wake up that much. But as usual, bait, block, punish.

If you know that ken is going to throw fireball after his little f.mk, c.mk string, throw ultra. It might sound scrubby but they will stop throwing that garbage after you do it. Warning: you have to watch what each ken does. Alot of them right now though are abusing that to no end.

Sweep is yet again a good poke, and c.Fierce is awesome.

Mixup all your dash punches and use your meter for EX dash whatevers. you have to put pressure on ken if you want to him flip out and do something stupid.

Headbutt loses to low pokes alot and its not super helpful as an AA or on wakeup. EX headbutt on the other hand is cool to use, but you really want those bars for dash mixups. use EX headbutt when they constantly cross up on wake up. EX headbutt is somewhat safe to do to get out cross up traps.

TAP is useful but sometimes dangerous vs ken. Use them to get in but not much else. I find its to slow to punish kens c.mk. Tap is useful though to under him when he jumps to avoid it all together. Also good for chip pressure as well.

Kens c.mk beats your pokes well. You can beat it at the right distance with your best long range pokes(Fierce, Sweep, C.mp) but its best just to wait for Ken to do something in this matchup after you've got him closer to the corner. watchout when trying to throw anything after blocked dash punch. Kens pokes tend to be faster then balrogs.

Go for throws as much as you can. Boxers dash up throw is good and so is whiff EX dash upper. Go for either vs turtle kens.

ill play more later.

[terracotta]

lost today to a Zangief spamming PPP lariat all over the place - thing countered low strong, low forward.. pretty much anything Gief could anticipate. sad thing is Rog's sweep doesn't quite reach Gief's feet reliably, and i can't think of anything that'll knock Gief out of the lariat that doesn't require meter - only choice seems to be waiting and hitting him on recovery.

is this match up supposed to be hard? i could keep Gief from jumping with low fierce, but it's not easy to fight him on the ground - whiff lariat (disgusting priority) into blocked EX banishing flat leads into.. well, Gief's A-game (SPD/lariat/sakura combo/crossup mixup). i think i know how to handle him on wakeup, and i'll use EX dashes more, but i feel like im' missing something really obvious.

[FuguTabetai]

lost today to a Zangief spamming PPP lariat all over the place - thing countered low strong, low forward.. pretty much anything Gief could anticipate. sad thing is Rog's sweep doesn't quite reach Gief's feet reliably, and i can't think of anything that'll knock Gief out of the lariat that doesn't require meter - only choice seems to be waiting and hitting him on recovery.

is this match up supposed to be hard? i could keep Gief from jumping with low fierce, but it's not easy to fight him on the ground - whiff lariat (disgusting priority) into blocked EX banishing flat leads into.. well, Gief's A-game (SPD/lariat/sakura combo/crossup mixup). i think i know how to handle him on wakeup, and i'll use EX dashes more, but i feel like im' missing something really obvious.

Playing as Gief, I don't feel like I can spam lariat because a good 'Rog can punish you on recovery with TAP or rushing punch. If they don't time it right you can nail them with a second lariat, but it does have some recovery time.

Playing as Balrog, if you play an ultra turtle and ultra boring Balrog, I think the fight is about 50-50. If you rush too much you eat lariats or even SPDs, so you have to always space your punches to put the fist out and hit at max range. Even then you can get SPDd sometimes (But a missed SPD can be more easily punished.)

I think this is a pretty even but boring fight. Zangief has real trouble getting in on a turtle 'Rog, and I don't think banishing fist is safe to use for chip damage, so it is tough.

[SEbastard]

lost today to a Zangief spamming PPP lariat all over the place - thing countered low strong, low forward.. pretty much anything Gief could anticipate. sad thing is Rog's sweep doesn't quite reach Gief's feet reliably, and i can't think of anything that'll knock Gief out of the lariat that doesn't require meter - only choice seems to be waiting and hitting him on recovery.

is this match up supposed to be hard? i could keep Gief from jumping with low fierce, but it's not easy to fight him on the ground - whiff lariat (disgusting priority) into blocked EX banishing flat leads into.. well, Gief's A-game (SPD/lariat/sakura combo/crossup mixup). i think i know how to handle him on wakeup, and i'll use EX dashes more, but i feel like im' missing something really obvious.

I don't remember having much trouble, but remember..........Patience, ducking fierces, and jumping straight up and attacking, are your friend. If he is staying on the ground, I've been feigning by tapping the stick forward, or throwing out a jab....then standing fierce as he is coming out of the lariat animation.....at least until he is back in the corner, then more options open up.

Also, jumping in roundhouse, ducking roundhouse, combo (or blocked) to keep him at bay.

I know what you are saying though.....It's a more odd game vs zangief than back in the other games.............it's similar..but everything just seems a bit strange timing-wise.

[DutchieD]

Maybe i'm late but that boxer in that video against the E.Honda player is actually Nakao the Hugo/Urien player from 3rd strike ;o. Coolness

[MOD]

I did a matchup post vs zangief a few pages back, Its pretty helpful i think.

But basically to cut that short. C.Fierce the shit out of lariat. You can crouch Fierce his arms and it will hit him out of it. Just try it. Or like other people said, punish with light dash punch.

You should spam jump pack fierce. Whenever you get close to gief, jump back fierce. Jump back Fierce beats lariat and does good damage.Jump back fierce also keeps you safe from Banishing Hand shit mid screen. Definitely good. You can also hold back as soon as you jump and then dash punch when you land. This will make the player start throwing random lariats, because it gets to rough on gief.

I also found that I'm sick of Giefs who spam ultra/super/spd during block strings. If you catch a gief player doing this, just go for a single jab and then jump back fierce. I swear some guy ultra'd me out of jab x3 on block on the 3rd jab. I was swearing my ass off lol.

[xMo0xMo0x]

need a lotta patience vs gief..

lariats are the easy part:
vs lariats- ex dash upper, c.lp, c.lp, headbutt -> ultra
..or just do ultra with kicks

anyone hit that ex upper, c.lp, c.lk, ex upper, c.lp, c.lk, ex upper, etc. semi-loop combo? i cant get more than 2 ex uppers and having a hard time linking the c.lp.. thinking it might be character specific

[happosai311]

Saw this boxer vid in the SF4 Video thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loR54lzqS98
Can someone post the combo at 00:36 & the combo at 01:50.

The first one looks like a c.lp. c.mk in-between the EX uppers, but I can't get the timing right.

[Raph_Stryker]

i gave the loop a shot, but i didnt have any patience for the constant stream of shotos who uppercut in the slightest hole. I managed to link the cr. lp, but i still have to work on the cr. lp to cr. mk link. cr. mk, cr. mp link was also wierd to me, since im used to the ST one.

I remember doing the Ultra after seeing someone a fireball from midscreen. Its wierd seeing the hitbox of hit, because it hits like, a space in front of his fist. Its amusing watching them basically get hit by air.

Had my first taste of the vs. akuma matchup (the guy playing wasnt a novice) and man..it seems so easy. To me, it feels like he has to play like *gasp* a normal shoto. Ex rush upper through non ex air fireballs all day. All the options to go through fireballs are so key in this match.

[MOD]

Saw this boxer vid in the SF4 Video thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loR54lzqS98
Can someone post the combo at 00:36 & the combo at 01:50.

The first one looks like a c.lp. c.mk in-between the EX uppers, but I can't get the timing right.

00:36 = Jumpin Rh, c.mk link c.lp to EX dash upper, then c.lp, c.lk to EX dash upper, then c.lp, c.lk, headbutt xx ultra.

1:50 = EX dash overhead, c.lk, headbutt.

I played alot today gonna post new matchups soon :tup:

[happosai311]

00:36 = Jumpin Rh, c.mk link c.lp to EX dash upper, then c.lp, c.lk to EX dash upper, then c.lp, c.lk, headbutt xx ultra.

1:50 = EX dash overhead, c.lk, headbutt.

I played alot today gonna post new matchups soon :tup:

Thanks, is there a preffered strentgh for the headbutt in combos? I feel like the lp Headbutt misses sometimes.

Also, did he only get 1 hit with the ultra because he miss timed it? Or is there a combo/juggle limit at 12 hits for rog?

[Jay Wang]

Thanks, is there a preffered strentgh for the headbutt in combos? I feel like the lp Headbutt misses sometimes.

I always use fierce punch headbutt when I'm going for the ultra juggle. It has retarded horizontal range.

Sometimes though I will mix it up and do a jab headbutt that I know will whiff on purpose. After landing, you will be in close and can do a TAP, go for throw or continue a block chain.


Also, did he only get 1 hit with the ultra because he miss timed it? Or is there a combo/juggle limit at 12 hits for rog?

I find that in the corner when doing the headbutt xx ultra juggle, only the first 1 or 2 punches hit with the rest of them whiffing. The body of my oppenent lands behind me while Rog continues to punch the "wall" of the corner.

Is this a timing issue? Or maybe a character specific problem? What have you guys seen? (I remember happening to me alot when I played against Honda and Blanka)

[Jay Wang]

Got some Qs, namely can you supercancel the TAP?

Also what are the specifics on the 'torpedo punch' I've been hearing about, it's the punch that goes diagonally upwards isn't it? But what's the input combination and its purpose (knockdown??)

YES, TAP can be super cancelled. Although you have to be FAST.

I'm not sure about the official move names but the one you are asking about is done by:

charge b, df + k (hold kick)

You can also EX it for a 1 hit super armor.

It knocks down on contact (as opposed to leaving them standing like a normal rush punch)

I like using it against jumpy characters who will try and jump back during my block strings. other than that, i don't really use it. I think it can hit crouching opponents too if done from close range (not sure, can someone confirm?)

[Jay Wang]

I also found that I'm sick of Giefs who spam ultra/super/spd during block strings. If you catch a gief player doing this, just go for a single jab and then jump back fierce. I swear some guy ultra'd me out of jab x3 on block on the 3rd jab. I was swearing my ass off lol.

Indeed. This has happened to me before too by scrubs who "churn" the joystick so hard I can feel them shaking the machine.

I like the jump back feirce but it's hard to keep momentum after doing that.

How about jumping straight up? What would you say is Rog's best jump straight up attack?

The only time I ever use a jump straight up attack is the palm fierce which lets you wiggle forward a little bit in the air ala ST. Not sure if the hit box would make it a good attack for hitting someone that is right below you tho.

[MOD]

Alright new match up

Boxer vs Akuma

Well I actually believe this is Boxers favor. He just has so many ways to go through fireballs, and Ultra takes soooooo much off Akuma. Which means akuma cant Shoryu like he wants to all the time.

First thing that is useful, headbutt goes through air fireballs, even EX. This is amazingly good. If akuma jumps at you with fireball on wake up, headbutt owns him for free.

TAP is holy shit useful in this matchup, gets in at akuma and does awesome damage if you land it. Goes through his triple fireball bullshit. Goes through air fireballs as well. sometimes though air fireballs are still around long enough to hit you.

Don't be afraid to jump over fireballs in this matchup. Sometimes you really need to.

EX dash punches (or dash anything) are really useful when akuma doesn't have bar, especially dash upper or dash cannon. Dash upper can hit him out of the air while taking a hit, and cannon will break SA on hit and is also a good anti air that will hit akuma into the corner which is really good.

Akuma can and will demon you on reaction out of any dash punch. I used TAP and it beat ultra demon at the right distance today. but sometimes ultra demon beat it. Be careful because he has 2 bars. Demon beats dash punches all the time. So you have to watch akumas bar very close.

don't try to escape cross ups with headbutt, akumas sweep is too long. You have to block or use EX dash punch to escape. blocking is good in the matchup though.

Try your best to get the player to use akumas ultra when you can jump out. Akuma is not scary to boxer at all without ultra, and boxer can throw dash punch mixups all day.

C.Fierce and headbutt will beat dive kick nicely. Headbutt isn't always safe though.

When you get akuma in the corner, just wait for him to do something. Headbutt any air or triple fireballs you see.

You can choose to ultra after headbutt to deal more damage, but akuma is alot more scared of boxer when he has ultra. Saving it can get the scare tactics going. you can land lots of throws.

Try and ultra after the kick chain akuma has. you either takes the 2nd hit or blow through it with ultra. Not that risky for a huge reward.

Jumping Fierce will stuff air mixups and it all around a good poke. Sweep is also very good as a poke in this match up. Use sweep when you can.

Super tired. Will play more tomorrow. I found some interesting things about boxer. I'll post them later.

[InBondWeTrust]

I played the game for the first time today at SJSU

When I got there this guy was tearing it up with Boxer, he had a 27 win streak before it got snapped. The funny thing is, he basically got that win streak with nothing but normals, occasionally throwing in a straight rush punch or headbutt on the tail end of a combo. I never once saw the man do a low rush punch or rush upper or the new overhead rush, but he would throw out ex straight punch with great efficiency.

I played Boxer pretty much all the way through, but unfortunately I was unable to do the low rush punches consistently on the Happ 360s (I think I only got it to come out 3 or 4 times the whole time I was there.)

I asked the guy with the streak if he had trouble doing them and he said he didn't, but the diagonal was a bit finicky and you had to push it a bit higher than you might be used to. Even with this I still couldn't get it to come out.

Here's some of my findings. Boxer's normals are SCARY good, they have sick priority, they come out fast, they have an amazing range (even cr. jab) and they're safe as hell. They're also incredibly easy to combo.

Here's how a a typical match for me or the other Boxer player went, we'd throw out our normals very liberally, making people respect them, then we'd start incorporating rush punches, then throws. This really fucks with your opponent's head, and he WILL be afraid of Boxer, especially when you have Ultra meter. I found that Boxer is never out of the match even when he's terribly behind because of this, people will turtle when you get Ultra.

The best thing to do when you know your opponent is scared of you is the overhead rush punch, normal or EX. It takes a long time for the player to get used to this threat and adjust, so you can see why I'm frustrated that I couldn't get it to come out consistently. (Which is even more aggravating because I could do Guile's Ultra motion at will on the same sticks)

The timing on TAP going through fireballs must be very strict, or I really suck because I couldn't get ONE TAP to go through a fireball. I was so frustrated I basically just gave up charging it, it's kind of a burden to do so anyway since you want full access to Boxer's awesome normals.

Like Mod said above, Headbutt is probably not the way to go against crossups, it's better to block or EX rushpunch out of it. EX Rush punches are pretty unstoppable unless your opponent starts throwing out their armor breaking specials (they'll be afraid to most of the time). That doesn't mean that headbutt isn't effective though, quite the contrary, it's crazy good in most other situations. The ex version I'm not really sold on yet, but maybe it's cause I'm still learning. I just didn't see much use for it, the normal headbutt is good enough most of the time.

One last thing, his throw has beastly range, and I feel it's best to save the throws until later on in the fight when you've scared your opponent shitless with the rest of Boxer's arsenal. It's pretty easy to finish fights with throw setups after that.

I'll meditate on all that's in this thread and try again tomorrow, hopefully I'll have the low rush punch down and can really start opening up on people.

[MOD]

Speaking of boxers normals, has anyone used Standing roundhouse lately? holy hell is it good. It goes the same distance as standing Fierce and it looks to be almost faster. close Rh combos into c.lp and can also be FADC'd. I was throwing max range roundhouse at people all day, that and sweep straight up destroy pokes.

all of Boxers crouching pokes are beast.

The other day I managed to also combo jab jab EX dash upper off of TAP on counter hit. Its possible to do. TAP and Dash Torpedo are great against asshats who sit and play mixups with SA all day. Bust em in their face with a good ol' TAP.

To get TAP to go through fireballs you must release the 3 buttons right as the fireball is about to hit you. Timing can be a little strict sometimes.

[InBondWeTrust]

Speaking of boxers normals, has anyone used Standing roundhouse lately? holy hell is it good. It goes the same distance as standing Fierce and it looks to be almost faster. close Rh combos into c.lp and can also be FADC'd. I was throwing max range roundhouse at people all day, that and sweep straight up destroy pokes.

all of Boxers crouching pokes are beast.

The other day I managed to also combo jab jab EX dash upper off of TAP on counter hit. Its possible to do. TAP and Dash Torpedo are great against asshats who sit and play mixups with SA all day. Bust em in their face with a good ol' TAP.

To get TAP to go through fireballs you must release the 3 buttons right as the fireball is about to hit you. Timing can be a little strict sometimes.

Thanks for the info, will try all that stuff out tomorrow.

Here's some other quick things I forgot to mention. I found the best use for Ultra is to save it until very late in the fight when your opponent is low on health and just meaty chip them to death after a knockdown. I couldn't do the Headbutt ultra juggle and I couldn't really utilize the Ultra any other way effectively, except on SRK happy kens (the timing is awfully strict if you want to hit them in the air) and going through the occasional fireballs when people are dumb enough to through them. Most people however, will make sure not to get hit by the ultra and turtle like crazy so it's hard to actually pull it off.

Normal rush punches come out a bit slower than I'm used to, so I had to adjust to that.

And to Mod, can you go into detail on appropriate times to use Boxer's FA? I tried using it with very little success, so little infact that when I actually did use it successfully I wasn't ready to capitalize when they were in crumple stun.

[Raph_Stryker]

The other day I managed to also combo jab jab EX dash upper off of TAP on counter hit. Its possible to do. TAP and Dash Torpedo are great against asshats who sit and play mixups with SA all day. Bust em in their face with a good ol' TAP.


thats good to know, the CH TAP i mean, though the armor breaking antics are too good.


To get TAP to go through fireballs you must release the 3 buttons right as the fireball is about to hit you. Timing can be a little strict sometimes.

For me, the wierdest fireball to go through are slow tiger shots because i sometimes get hit by the tail ends of them. All other fireballs are cake, or so it feels.


On a side note, i find it sometimes wierd that i can't low rush punch/overhead rush punch consistently, but when i do the same motion for the rush cannon, i always hit that. Im not really doing anything different, but i always end up with a regular rush punch when i really want to go for the low punch for a knockdown.

frustrating

[InBondWeTrust]

On a side note, i find it sometimes wierd that i can't low rush punch/overhead rush punch consistently, but when i do the same motion for the rush cannon, i always hit that. Im not really doing anything different, but i always end up with a regular rush punch when i really want to go for the low punch for a knockdown.

frustrating

Know what I noticed? There's about a 20% higher chance a low rush punch is gonna come out if you do it with a jab, at least on the cabinet I play on.

I went back to play some more tonight, and I have some new insights on the Guile matchup.

If the Guile is good and knows you can TAP or EX Rush through fireballs, he will throw out a spinning backhand on reaction right after his sonic boom, and his recovery is good enough that you WILL eat that backhand like you was one of his bitches.

With that in mind, it becomes really difficult to get through fireballs, it's basically back to ST mode where your only hope really is to jump over them and hope you don't get smacked with a c.hp or headbutt your way through them which is a pain in the ass if the Guile is changing speeds with his Sonic Booms. I never was good against Guile in ST so this is bad news for this matchup. =/

I played Battosai's Guile tonight and couldn't beat him once, I got zoned the fuck out with Sonic Booms. Pissed me off, lol.

[Jay Wang]

Thanks for the info, will try all that stuff out tomorrow.

Here's some other quick things I forgot to mention. I found the best use for Ultra is to save it until very late in the fight when your opponent is low on health and just meaty chip them to death after a knockdown. I couldn't do the Headbutt ultra juggle and I couldn't really utilize the Ultra any other way effectively, except on SRK happy kens (the timing is awfully strict if you want to hit them in the air) and going through the occasional fireballs when people are dumb enough to through them. Most people however, will make sure not to get hit by the ultra and turtle like crazy so it's hard to actually pull it off.

Normal rush punches come out a bit slower than I'm used to, so I had to adjust to that.


IMO, the best way to use the ultra is the juggle off a fierce punch headbutt. So far, it is the only way to combo the ultra with Rog.

I think it has been mentioned before in the thread but the "trick" with combo'ing the ultra after the headbutt is in how to execute the charge motion:

charge db, UB+FP (headbutt comes out, continue to hold b), then f,b,f+PPP after landing.

by holding up back on the stick, you still execute the headbutt and also retain the back charge, which can be used for the super. this "trick" was also available in ST.

And just as a FYI, the ultra is NOT 100% safe (depending on character of opponent)

I've had Honda's and Ken's ultra my Rog in between the 2nd last and last punch of the super.


And to Mod, can you go into detail on appropriate times to use Boxer's FA? I tried using it with very little success, so little infact that when I actually did use it successfully I wasn't ready to capitalize when they were in crumple stun.

I'm not MOD but I'll give it a shot:

Since Rog's FA has very, very small horizontal range (even his cr jab is better!) you have to be fairly close to use it. And with Rog it is easy to get close to the opponent with rush punch, rush upper, TAP, etc, especially with the EX versions.

Examples:

After the opponent blocks any of the moves below, you are in the best range to SA and then combo or if the SA is blocked, dash in and throw or continue block string. (if I had a charge stored after a SA, I was just doing cr xx special.... otherwise go for a sweep).

You can really bait out some people if they like to push buttons after you get in close!

- TAP, SA, combo
- Whiffed rush upper (normal or EX), SA, combo
- Rush punch (normal or EX), SA, combo
- overhead rush punch (normal or EX) , SA, combo

Anyone here able to charge partition? I was trying desperately to get SA, dash, cr jab, cr jab, cr strong xx headbutt to come out but it just wouldn't work for me.

[MOD]

And to Mod, can you go into detail on appropriate times to use Boxer's FA? I tried using it with very little success, so little infact that when I actually did use it successfully I wasn't ready to capitalize when they were in crumple stun.

Well Boxers FA is decent enough i'd say, but it cant be used like everyone elses for the most part. The only problem is that there isn't a huge reward as of yet. i mean you can try and dashup c.jab x2 c.short headbutt. but its hard. Just for dash punch or Dash torpedo . Dash torpedo puts people in corners and thats where you want them.

I'd uses for his FA has limited use mid screen and shouldn't really be used to counter poke too much like most other characters. Its actually a decent AA but its not better than headbutt of c.fierce. If you guess a jumpin by certain characters you can punish them pretty well with it. Because if you hit someone in the air with FA (sends them spinning in the air), boxer has many good ways to combo after it. Dash upper or just dash up Fierce or headbutt in the corner.

Which brings me to the main use for his FA. Corner games. You can't really jump over Boxers FA when you are trying to meaty people with it on knock down. Which means they have to come out with an armor breaking attack or something multi hitting. Back dash canceling with Boxer can be so good because it will bait people to miss something punishable or it will bait them to jump out, in which case C.Fierce or headbutt if you get the charge in time. Don't be afraid to just let lvl 3 FA lose on people waking up in the corner sometimes, people get scared as shit.

but boxer actually has alot of good FADC stuff. My favorite being FADC after c.mp in any combo sting, then throwing. People should be afraid of boxer throwing them alot. Even though vs some characters you shouldn't bother (aka zangief or honda). FADC after dash upper or dash torpedo is good. makes good pressure.
And this one is gimmicky but you can actually FADC sweep. So if sweep connects you FADC for no reason, but if you know they will block, it makes some really annoying block strings which eventually can lead into overhead or throw.

[terracotta]

good God, Balrog is a beast. probably gonna be my main for a while.

great discussion going on this thread too.. keep it up guys.

[Jay Wang]

snip


Hey MOD,

Some good shit there. Thanks for sharing. I'm definatley going to use FADC alot more now. It's the only new part of the engine that I haven't used yet.

New topic:

Kara throwing with Rog? (Kara's are possible in this game right?)

Any normals which you guys can think of using?

I'm thinking maybe standing foward kick? (the lunging gut punch)

The next time I go to the arcade, I'll bring my camera and hopefully can capture some good Rog matches to show you guys here.

[happosai311]

how do i pick rogs black outfit from that 12-hit honda vid? every button including start gives me the blue one.

[Battosai]

Know what I noticed? There's about a 20% higher chance a low rush punch is gonna come out if you do it with a jab, at least on the cabinet I play on.

I went back to play some more tonight, and I have some new insights on the Guile matchup.

If the Guile is good and knows you can TAP or EX Rush through fireballs, he will throw out a spinning backhand on reaction right after his sonic boom, and his recovery is good enough that you WILL eat that backhand like you was one of his bitches.

With that in mind, it becomes really difficult to get through fireballs, it's basically back to ST mode where your only hope really is to jump over them and hope you don't get smacked with a c.hp or headbutt your way through them which is a pain in the ass if the Guile is changing speeds with his Sonic Booms. I never was good against Guile in ST so this is bad news for this matchup. =/

I played Battosai's Guile tonight and couldn't beat him once, I got zoned the fuck out with Sonic Booms. Pissed me off, lol.

GGs man, nice rog

It was cool to see you pull off those turn punches threw those shoto players fireballs like HF rog, but of course after I saw that, I figured I was going to be able to back hand you when you did it just like HF. I also thought I should experiment and try backhanding when rog does and ex punch through my booms, and it was cool to see it works. That turn punch works better against shotos for sure(ryu especially), not to mention headbutting through fireballs is always a plus seeing that rog can do that last night ST style. I feel your pain about those sticks as well, medium spring competition sticks should be installed in that machine.

btw: That was messed up that they didn't give me my 50cents back when that left coin slot was broken...not exactly good customer service at SJSU.

[The Black Guy]

I can't wait to try all the stuff I have just read!!!

[InBondWeTrust]

GGs man, nice rog

It was cool to see you pull off those turn punches threw those shoto players fireballs like HF rog, but of course after I saw that, I figured I was going to be able to back hand you when you did it just like HF. I also thought I should experiment and try backhanding when rog does and ex punch through my booms, and it was cool to see it works. That turn punch works better against shotos for sure(ryu especially), not to mention headbutting through fireballs is always a plus seeing that rog can do that last night ST style. I feel your pain about those sticks as well, medium spring competition sticks should be installed in that machine.

btw: That was messed up that they didn't give me my 50cents back when that left coin slot was broken...not exactly good customer service at SJSU.

Yeah the whole arcade was kinda pissing me off last night, made me half regret putting 17 bucks into the game.

The scarier thing is I think I'm stupid enough to go back AGAIN and AGAIN until I get to the level I want to be at with B-Rawg, and it's just gonna take longer than it should with those sticks. It'll be funny explaining to my mom that I couldn't afford. my textbooks for this fall quarter cause I spent 100 bucks on SF4. lol.

And yeah Jay, you're right, Headbutt, juggle ultra seems to be the best use for the ultra but I can't do that motion on happ360s yet so I guess I just ignored it.

Thank you and thanks to Mod and everyone else who has contributed to this thread. I really want to support the fellow Rog players out there by doing my part to experiment and learn with him and report my findings. Long live Boxer!

[Nokato]

00:36 = Jumpin Rh, c.mk link c.lp to EX dash upper, then c.lp, c.lk to EX dash upper, then c.lp, c.lk, headbutt xx ultra.

1:50 = EX dash overhead, c.lk, headbutt.

I played alot today gonna post new matchups soon :tup:

God Bless Nakao (Balrog player in that vid)

His Rog is sick.

[Sev]

how do i pick rogs black outfit from that 12-hit honda vid? every button including start gives me the blue one.

You need a registered IC card. As of now, this is only possible in Japan, as nobody has figured out how to get into the SF4 mobile network by any other means than a Japanese Cellphone.

[InBondWeTrust]

I figured out the low rush punch dilemma, I probably sound really stupid for this but I didn't realize you had to continue to hold diagonal down forward until basically the animation is over. I'm used to just tapping diagonal down-forward and charging right away, this probably isn't the first game that did this, but I'm used to ST so it was weird for me. I understand why they did it though and have no real problems with having to do that.

The matchup vs. Honda is a BITCH, I'd love to hear from some people better than I on how to deal with him.

Whenever he has bar you're kinda fucked because his EX torpedo stuffs everything you have, EVERYTHING.

His normal torpedo is super hard to punish.

I actually got Ochiyo'd out of an EX overhead rush punch, to which I cursed loudly.

The only thing that really gives you a break is if you're able to land overhead rush punch, since it'll hit 99% of the time against the turtling fuck Honda is.

Once this happens you better keep bringing the pain cause if you let up it's back to square one, I found this out a lot with Boxer, vs. most characters I needed to get inside and stay inside, if the player got some breathing room I'd be struggling to get back inside again. It's not that bad vs. shotos, but other charge characters especially yes.

Against Abel I found I was able to play a hit and run game similar to how Zangief is played, Abel needs to get real close to do some damage so keep him honest with s.hp and cr.hk. Balrogs low pokes beat Abel's Super clean, not sure about the Ultra. Just keep him away from you and it doesn't seem like too hard a matchup. Zangief and Abel were ez peezy for me to deal with.

Using TAPs to go through fireballs against any character is more of a surprise technique that only works once. After that you really have to pay attention to the distance between you and the opponent, too close or too far away when you TAP and the player will punish you every time.

It's not really a good idea to punish a jump you see coming with KKK Ultra, the timing is super steep and the other player's jump is very misleading. Sometimes you think you're gonna hit based on where the player was when the animation started, and then after the game goes back to real time it seems like the player teleports out of the damn way quick as shit.

Headbutt isn't really as great as I thought, you really have to know which characters it works on and which it doesn't work on so well. Claw is pretty susceptible to them, but shotos and Honda definitely are not. If you know how to time it properly, cr. fierce is a much better option, or even FA imho.

[SEbastard]

Headbutt isn't really as great as I thought, you really have to know which characters it works on and which it doesn't work on so well. Claw is pretty susceptible to them, but shotos and Honda definitely are not. If you know how to time it properly, cr. fierce is a much better option, or even FA imho.

It really does depend on your timing for the headbutt. It's a great move. I'll still use ducking fierce any day of the week instead if they are deep.

[MOD]

Boxer vs Dicatator

This match is tricky but ultimately you can win this one by having good defense and using the right offense.

Avoid head stomp the best you can by moving around. Then hit him if he whiffs it.

EX Dash upper is your best friend in this match for 2 reasons. 1. it beats scissor kick. It takes the first hit and punches him before the second hit of scissors. 2. Because dictator players love their charge. They will crouch block in order to keep both. EX dash upper will whiff over them and then you throw their ass.

If dictator starts abusing psycho crusher to stop your EX dash attempts. just block and punish with a throw.

Dicatator can't do much to boxer besides going for normal mixups and trying counter or avoid him. here are some examples.

- using psycho crusher to beat dash punches
- using Devils reverse to "try" and beat tap
- using scissors to counter pokes and generally just being annoying
- Using EX psycho crusher to get out of the corner

Throwing random taps up close against Dictator can be awesome. It can avoid headstomp and go over sweep and c.mk.

Head butt is good as a scissors trade and counter for the constant barrage of s.mk that dictator throws your way. it also is a good bait to get dictator to do something from far away.
Ex headbutt is good against dictator when he is comming down from head stomp or even against bisons jumping games.

Standing strong is a really good aa in this match. But its better just block bisons stuff from the air and then choose an option to follow up with. Jumpin Fierce can stuff alot of stuff dictator has in the air.

Sweep is a really good poke again. Throwing jab beats alot of stuff on the ground to like scissors. Jab is good throw out if you block scissors.

Don't attempt to punish scissors with anything good like ultra. You either take a gamble on what he will do like throw tap or headbutt. or throw c.jab and try and get back on the offensive.

Dash punches keeps dictator guessing as to where you'll be so I'd say its somewhat risky but worth it do just sometimes. just to keep from getting spammed by sweep and head stomp.

Feel free to jump at dictator when hes waking up, it is generally safe. Free block string into mixup.

Save Ultra for a headbutt combo or chip. punishing with ultra in this match it pretty much not a good idea.

And finally, block. Don't spaz out against dictator. his damage is minimal but he has some real high priorty moves that go into basic mixups (throwing or cross ups). boxer overall does better damage and has a more threatening mixup game with good pokes as well.

[sektah84]

this dudes a beast got my ass handed to me 3xs today by some dude in cf who was playing with him was my first time playing makes me curious to tryhim but I always sucked with barlog

[XnoyHoy]

just got me 36 wins last night at AI after Valle beast it up with 49

Quick advice:
for newbie boxers try not to to be to flashy, you can really take care of most California players playing smart, like abusing your normals (Cr. RH, Cr. Fierce), punishing accordingly and just being PATIENT.

I am starting to feel boxers game is getting broken down by the upper tier players here.. with quick reflexes his dash punches become a liability.... any jap players concur or disagree?

[ChaiThai]

just got me 36 wins last night at AI after Valle beast it up with 49

Quick advice:
for newbie boxers try not to to be to flashy, you can really take care of most California players playing smart, like abusing your normals (Cr. RH, Cr. Fierce), punishing accordingly and just being PATIENT.

I am starting to feel boxers game is getting broken down by the upper tier players here.. with quick reflexes his dash punches become a liability.... any jap players concur or disagree?

By any chance, were you playing at Super earlier in the morning?

[Gorehound]

just got me 36 wins last night at AI after Valle beast it up with 49

Quick advice:
for newbie boxers try not to to be to flashy, you can really take care of most California players playing smart, like abusing your normals (Cr. RH, Cr. Fierce), punishing accordingly and just being PATIENT.

I am starting to feel boxers game is getting broken down by the upper tier players here.. with quick reflexes his dash punches become a liability.... any jap players concur or disagree?

I agree, especially with boxer.

Try not to do all rush, zoning is Boxers other greatest priority, great against Zangief players and such.

Question?

Is his EX Dash Uppercut a great anti-air, I remember you did an EX Dash Uppercut against a Ryu ready to hit with a crossup and the EX Dash won. It would be great since his C. Fierce only works on jumping opponents high in the air and his Headbutt is a risk move.

[Jay Wang]

The matchup vs. Honda is a BITCH, I'd love to hear from some people better than I on how to deal with him.

Whenever he has bar you're kinda fucked because his EX torpedo stuffs everything you have, EVERYTHING.

His normal torpedo is super hard to punish.

I actually got Ochiyo'd out of an EX overhead rush punch, to which I cursed loudly.

The only thing that really gives you a break is if you're able to land overhead rush punch, since it'll hit 99% of the time against the turtling fuck Honda is.



Turtle Honda has traditionally been a hard match for Rog in all the SF series.

In SF4, you can punish Honda after you block a NORMAL headbutt with a jab rush punch. If you have a full super meter, you can super cancel it for max damage.

You can't punish the EX headbutt though, Honda recovers faster and can block the jab rush punch. However, depending on the situation, it might be a good idea to do the rush punch anyways so that you can start building momentum.


Question?

Is his EX Dash Uppercut a great anti-air, I remember you did an EX Dash Uppercut against a Ryu ready to hit with a crossup and the EX Dash won. It would be great since his C. Fierce only works on jumping opponents high in the air and his Headbutt is a risk move.

I really like EX dash upper in this game on wake up. It takes a hit, can move me forward to build momentum and can be used for AA or Ground Poke situations.

Be warned, I'm pretty sure with the EX moves: you still take the damage for any hit that you take during an EX move. The advantage is just that you will just continue to finish your move.

I failed to notice if it is the recoverable type of damage (ala saving attack) or if it is full damage. Can someone confirm this?

[MOD]

I really like EX dash upper in this game on wake up. It takes a hit, can move me forward to build momentum