Went to a Japanese SF4 Ranbat yesterday

[kesh!]

At sakura game inn, Ino's arcade.

As for results, the top three characters were

1) Sagat
2) Abel
3) Ken

The Sagat player was godlike, his links were on target and his cross ups were demolishing. He ultra'd every round he had it and was just a powerhouse.

The abel, who I lost too was very in your face, his f. lk (or maybe st. mk, dont know abel) tick into dash, into tick, into hcb p or pp was demolishing, his ex grab destroyed all that my rufus had to offer.

The ken played very text book, ending every link into a hp shoryu.

Characters that I didn't see played at this ranbat:

El fuerte (lulz)
C. Viper
claw
dictator
e. honda

it looks like fuerte is way too weak(irony) to be playable, I played one recently without knowing his moveset and the player was pretty good (BP win ratio wise) and was very close to taking him out, I just didnt know his wall bounce body press crossed up and got owned.

C. viper has a nice bag of tricks, but after a blocked land mine, there isn't much she can do other than AA stun gun.

claw is a great character, I can't way to see top tier play of him

dictator is straight garbs, avoid at all cost!

e.honda has a nice trick, his st. rh can be whiffed into his ex oroichi grab (sp?) so on their wake up, you can whiff st. rh, they see it as a move coming out, and cr. lk or shoryu, the ex grab takes the super armor hit and owns. its quite nice.

other than that, saw the usual chuns, kens, ryus, rufus', sagats, boxers and giefs that usually play in sakura.

it was good times!

[Onslaught35]

dictator is straight garbs, avoid at all cost!


:confused:

[TempestFox]

claw is a great character, I can't way to see top tier play of him





Yeah, you and me both. Actually kinda surprised there wasn't a single Claw there. He's really good.

[Henaki]

kesh, pm me those sagat things you found :3

[iloveu]

Hit me up kesh send me that pm... Wish I was still over there with you .... I'll hold the fort down till you guys get back

[Humbag]

Dic is not garbs.

Not garbs by FAR.

[kesh!]

trust me guys, dictator is garbs

joe/henaki, i will see you guys in real life and talk to you about sagat =)

[skisonic]

what does garbs mean? he sucks? he seems really good to everyone here.

when did you go to japan?

[AdverseSolutions]

trust me guys, dictator is garbs



lol wut :confused::confused::confused:

[DeathScythe]

Kesh, you're lying. I will mash on my keyboard when I see you on IRC. Dictator is good, damnit. :sad:

[Akutabi Gamma]

Were the matches recorded by any chance?

[kesh!]

Kesh, you're lying. I will mash on my keyboard when I see you on IRC. Dictator is good, damnit. :sad:

DS, unlike the words of journey, do stop believing.

for everyone saying that dictator is indeed, not garbs, please list your reasoning.

From what I've seen of japan play, hardly anyone plays dictator, the 'tiers' that i've heard so far were something like

sagat
gief
chun
blanka (interesting to note, but he does have options)
ken
boxer
rufus

but hey, if dictator is magically on the top of this tier list, I will be the first to be publicly humiliated

[Captain Ryu]

Aren't japanese tier lists usually different anyway? Man I want to play this crack again.

[Demon Dash]

Aren't japanese tier lists usually different anyway? Man I want to play this crack again.
Depends what criteria you use and what conclusion you come to. But generally if the same ideas are used to tier characters, they should be reasonably the same, no matter what region. Of course though, it's still far too early to get any definitive information from a tier list. It realies too heavilly on the usage of characters at this stage, instead of actual studied match-ups. I would say we wouldn't have any solid idea on tiers till maybe around the time the console version comes out, when people can actually sit down with the game.

[CFAY]

DS, unlike the words of journey, do stop believing.

for everyone saying that dictator is indeed, not garbs, please list your reasoning.

From what I've seen of japan play, hardly anyone plays dictator, the 'tiers' that i've heard so far were something like

sagat
gief
chun
blanka (interesting to note, but he does have options)
ken
boxer
rufus

but hey, if dictator is magically on the top of this tier list, I will be the first to be publicly humiliated

no fanboy but there is no way you can make a list with 7 characters being top tier and not put ryu in there.

arcades in japan are all different and usually have different characters dominating where ever you go. you go here its gief, you go there its boxer, you go here its abel, you go there its sagat. i know for sure that there are sick dictators in yokohama. dudes dont miss their jab jab scissors kick combos and youll be doing everything you can to escape a cross up which will be abused most of the match.

[Dentron]

why are people so obsessed with creating tier lists imo

[wolf_1]

for everyone saying that dictator is indeed, not garbs, please list your reasoning.

that isn't fair until you list your reasoning why dictator is 'garbs'.




From what I've seen of japan play, hardly anyone plays dictator, the 'tiers' that i've heard so far were something like
sagat
gief
chun
blanka (interesting to note, but he does have options)
ken
boxer
rufus

this is just a list of some of the characters(assuming being ranked top to bottom). where are the so called 'tiers'??????

[DevilJin 01]

Even the tiers for 3rd Strike were really random back when it first came out. It'll be a while before real tiers settle in. The game JUST came out. People are spending more time learning things and real tiers can't be put together until many tournaments have already passed. Until then just have fun playing the game.

[Hol Horse]

yep and saving attack/cancel system could still have load of potential to shuffle things around, who knows which advanced combos could be made, or crazy setups, or ambigous crossups or whatever

[Demon Dash]

why are people so obsessed with creating tier lists (imo???)
Erm, terrible grammar, so I'll just get rid of that...

why are people so obsessed with creating tier lists
To answer that question, because it's probably the easiest way to see which characters are going to have a hard time and which caracters can walk on water (given the ability to perform to that level).

Like we say, with it being so early all this is pointless because yeah loads of people were beasting with certain characters, but it doesn't mean (while it quite possibly could have been) the skill level was equal, neither does it mean all possible oppertunities were abused with all characters. The best you can say is this character performed well on the day, or this character was underused on the day etc. With it only being out a few months, it's entierely possible for a "low tier" character to one day come out with an exploit that lets them dominate a large portion of the cast.

[Rioting Soul]

it's entierely possible for a "low tier" character to one day come out with an exploit that lets them dominate a large portion of the cast.

Like El Fuerte having an infinite.

[{PFH}-Lake]

is it worth playing or should I wait till capcom makes a 10th version of the game?

[VEGA_OMEGA]

I honestly can't believe people even want to know what the current tier list is.

obviously, it's going to change down the road like all fighting games do.

Some japanese dude is going to find the equivelant of the AHVB and then everyone will play that character.

[kesh!]

I was just relaying what I've been told, that 'tier' list which i've always kept in quotes was just from the top-down.

and for dictators cr. jab cr. jab scissor kick, ken has, cr.short cr.jab r.short hp shoryu or ex shoryu, saving dash into ultra, sagat has cr. short, cr. short, cr. jab tiger upper saving dash into ultra (or ex), boxer has cr. jab x3 (or short, not sure), headbutt into ultra

dictator just doesnt have the options that other characters have, but right now, he might be considered 'realllly good' in american standards, on japan, they havent even put him on the map.

and lol at el fuerte getting an infinite..though his st. hp combo is kind of funny

[AdverseSolutions]

dictator just doesnt have the options that other characters have, but right now, he might be considered 'realllly good' in american standards, on japan, they havent even put him on the map.



uh yeah, like the time umezono went 53-0 with him at the third loketest.

why are you making these pronouncements? do i really need to summarize dictator for you? yeah he has low jab/short chain into scissor kicks, which knocks down and leaves you in a very easy place to cross up . if low chain is blocked, do standing forward and you are now in perfect range to cross up again. if you predict a jump and can get a j. mp in, free ultra.

i would not argue that he's any higher than mid-tier, but garbage is a joke.

[kesh!]

*adverse, if you look at my post, I pointed out three characters off the top of my head that have that option, and so much more. I didn't even mention ken's kara grab which is a ridiculous mix up*

alright guys, lets put that aside for now, we can talk about this when real tiers come out, but now, don't take my post of information, focus on one line and argue about it

no one is gaining/learning anything but negating/proving that dictator is good. I'm very cautious about his options, lets leave it at that.

lets talk more about the characters used and characters potentials, and how this time around we will use this information to do somewhat well against the japanese!

[DevilJin 01]

But the dick is good!!!!

[McRomes]

Give Claw back his fast wall dives and we'll see who's top tier.........

Seriously though, his wall dives feel useless now. = [

[MOD]

I'd have to say Kens kara grab is so sick. That thing gets to be really scary so fast.

Dictator has to be played differently than the rest of the cast i think. Hes probably a solid mid tier but hes just not up there with the rest of the people up top. Sagat, Abel, Gief, Boxer, Blanka, Ryu, Ken, Rufus are all pretty disgusting.

[Ultima]

DevilJin:

> Even the tiers for 3rd Strike were really random back when it first came out. \

Not to derail the thread, but I would like to point that this isn't quite true. People pegged Chun-li and Ken as tops and Twelve and Sean as rubbish pretty much form day 1. The rest needed more time to get hammered out, but the only character the US missed completely early was Yun.

re: Dic

SO what's this nonsense about Dic being rubbish now? Did they seriously nerf him from one of the loketests and no one noticed until now?

[Master Chibi]

is it worth playing or should I wait till capcom makes a 10th version of the game?

This is already a 10th version.

:rofl:

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

DevilJin:Not to derail the thread, but I would like to point that this isn't quite true. People pegged Chun-li and Ken as tops and Twelve and Sean as rubbish pretty much form day 1. The rest needed more time to get hammered out, but the only character the US missed completely early was Yun.

Well, I lurked on AGSF2 back in the day and remember people saying Ryu > Ken because of Shin Shoryuken, Alex was top 5 for reasons I don't even remember, etc. Oh yeah, and the only good thing about Makoto was low forward.

Anyway, thanks for posting kesh! Glad to see Boxer love, I was enjoying the hell out of him at Evo and planned on sticking with him.

[nf0x]

why are people so obsessed with creating tier lists imo

So we don't waste our time with a character who will turn out to be terrible in 6 months.

[Havoc]

Give Claw back his fast wall dives and we'll see who's top tier.........

Seriously though, his wall dives feel useless now. = [

Wall Dive was fairly useless in CvS2, and Vega was still Upper Mid.. some say Top.

So we don't waste our time with a character who will turn out to be terrible in 6 months.

Retarded.

It's impossible to come up with any tier list for SF4 that will reflect how the game is being played in 6 months.

I remember when Marvel first came out, everyone was rocking Marrow, Psylocke on point, and you'd be hard pressed to find an arcade without like 9 Jill players. Cammy on point was serious business too.

When CvS2 first came out, Rock was the best character in the history of fighting games. I remember being on SRK, arguing about how good I thought A-Sakura was, and EVERYONE coming in like "nah... she's trash. John Choi said so". True story.

Reality is, nobody knows what they're doing right now. The best SF4 player in the world right now has no idea what he's doing for real.

Just play the game, and let the tiers fall into place.

[DutchieD]

What happened to playing characters because you like the way they play instead of playing characters because they are the best

[DaDesiCanadian]

What happened to playing characters because you like the way they play instead of playing characters because they are the best

So we don't waste our time with a character who will turn out to be terrible in 6 months.

....

[MOD]

I agree with the fact that in 6 months the game will be different.

Tiers are slowly falling into place, but just from playing the game, there are certain characters that wreak of broke shit. Especially a certain number of charge characters like Blanka or Boxer.
Charge partitioning is in the game, i caught a whiff of it today try to walk up and forward throw with boxer and instead got light dash punch.

In my mind this leads to alot of undiscovered setups and tactics. And everyday i see more and more sick SA cancel setups which are disgusting.

I bet in a year the tiers will be in, but they will still be finding new stuff for the game.

[noodleman]

Wall Dive was fairly useless in CvS2, and Vega was still Upper Mid.. some say Top.



Retarded.

It's impossible to come up with any tier list for SF4 that will reflect how the game is being played in 6 months.

I remember when Marvel first came out, everyone was rocking Marrow, Psylocke on point, and you'd be hard pressed to find an arcade without like 9 Jill players. Cammy on point was serious business too.

When CvS2 first came out, Rock was the best character in the history of fighting games. I remember being on SRK, arguing about how good I thought A-Sakura was, and EVERYONE coming in like "nah... she's trash. John Choi said so". True story.

Reality is, nobody knows what they're doing right now. The best SF4 player in the world right now has no idea what he's doing for real.

Just play the game, and let the tiers fall into place.
not to mention running jab ryu's

[the supreme]

So we don't waste our time with a character who will turn out to be terrible in 6 months.


Truth. And if those tiers change, so will my character selection...who cares about losing 1000 times with Viper....:smokin:



lol @ dictator being 'garbage'

[De4dEyE]

So El fuerte is shitty? Japan says so? :sad:

[CFAY]

So El fuerte is shitty? Japan says so? :sad:

el fuerte is not shitty but look at it like this, not many people will have the ability to make him look good.

[Keits]

El fuerte (lulz)


it looks like fuerte is way too weak(irony) to be playable,

:-p Just you wait. :smokin:

[kesh!]

Keits, I've been keeping my eye on your fuerte, I want you to show me the true ultimate power!!!!

:)

[Mariodood]

There are no tiers out yet..but I bet Ken is the best. Why? Two words. Kara throw. From what I've seen, he has the best kara throw ever to be in SF. Good kara throws move characters up in the tiers.

Ken also has the usual, i.e. great crossup, good pokes. HP shoryu is awesome, and it's now hit confirmable off of a low attack. He also seems to have a great saving attack, it's one of the few that hits mid instead of high so it works often, and then Ken has really good followups after it, including hit confirms into ultra.

[Shungokustasu]

I don't understand why people even need a tier list. Play the guy/girl you like and form a strategy for every other character. I always think the character I play with is my top tier character.

[MOD]

I don't understand why people even need a tier list. Play the guy/girl you like and form a strategy for every other character. I always think the character I play with is my top tier character.

because winning is alot more important than character pride or making a cool back story. No one cares if you are the best mid tier character from any game, you are more than likely not going to be winning at a consistent level.

Look at any SF besides ST or Hyper. Tiers mean a big deal to alot of people because they want to know who to play when it matters the most. Saying "just pick your team/ character and play" doesn't work for alot of games. Saying im gonna just play S groove Kyosuke, King, and Boxer or Dan, Servebot, and Zangief or Twelve or R.Mika is cool, but get ready to lose more than 9 times out of 10 in a tournament environment.

People want to know tiers so they can learn early on who is tournament playable and then begin learning the character as early as possible. Tiers aren't about fun, they are about consistently winning and playing with the most options the game has to offer.

[n0thingman]

ken is in no way top in this game. hes good yeah. but i might even say that ryu is higher than he is simply because of shoryu>ultra.

even then there are characters way over them. rufus is pretty far over ken. zangief owns a good number of the cast. and blanka is the cheapest motherfucker with the safest specials in the game

[Shinkuu Tatsumaki]

Wait, so is Ken the only one with a kara throw? Or is his just the best one?

And yes, tiers do matter. But if you don't care about winning any tournys, or winning consistently like MOD said, then it doesn't matter. Just remember that if you lose with a low-tier, you still lost, there's no excuses.

[MAGUS1234]

SO why doesn't everyone play S-tier Sagat? If winning is everything then there is no reason to play someone outside of god tier.

EIther way, everyone has a kara throw, kens is the only good one IIRC. Seems like throw ranges vary though, not sure but to me it looks like some chars are better than others.

[Havoc]

Wait, so is Ken the only one with a kara throw? Or is his just the best one?

And yes, tiers do matter. But if you don't care about winning any tournys, or winning consistently like MOD said, then it doesn't matter. Just remember that if you lose with a low-tier, you still lost, there's no excuses.

Tiers do not matter in a month old game..

[DeathScythe]

Wait, so is Ken the only one with a kara throw? Or is his just the best one?

And yes, tiers do matter. But if you don't care about winning any tournys, or winning consistently like MOD said, then it doesn't matter. Just remember that if you lose with a low-tier, you still lost, there's no excuses.

The tiers won't mean shit for this game outside of Japan and a few spots that have a cab for SFIV. There's a revision coming out in the form of the console version and that's what we'll be playing at ALL tournies.

[Keits]

Word on the street is not to expect much, if any, revision in the console version.

[n0thingman]

they better fix that broke ass fucking blanka.

hes the only character that i would call a cheap ass. everyone else is still managable

[oriku]

Kesh, you have no idea what you're talking about - especially with that tier list of yours. Sure, it's OK to have an opinion, but not when you're trying to pass it off as fact, especially when it's quite plain to see that you're quick to make a conclusion based off 2nd hand information, or something that you see briefly. So you almost beat an El Fuerte and that makes him crap? So Ken being able do a saving attack and then dash to Ultra elevates him to top tier even though half the cast can do the same? So your 1 time experience in 1 arcade means what you saw is consistent amongst the other thousand arcades in Japan?

With that simple mind of yours, I bet a million dollars you royally suck at this and any other SF.

It's unfortunate that people believe you.

[kesh!]

Kesh, you have no idea what you're talking about - especially with that tier list of yours. Sure, it's OK to have an opinion, but not when you're trying to pass it off as fact, especially when it's quite plain to see that you're quick to make a conclusion based off 2nd hand information, or something that you see briefly. So you almost beat an El Fuerte and that makes him crap? So Ken being able do a saving attack and then dash to Ultra elevates him to top tier even though half the cast can do the same? So your 1 time experience in 1 arcade means what you saw is consistent amongst the other thousand arcades in Japan?

With that simple mind of yours, I bet a million dollars you royally suck at this and any other SF.

It's unfortunate that people believe you.

:rofl:

Yeah, I went to sugamo once, played in sakura game arcade once, only played sf4 once and talked to Ino who participated in sbo only once, then left Japan.

You sure got me bro.

If you actually read the thread, understood the words and wasn't such a dimwit, you'd see what I and others are saying.

But please, continue your baseless flames, I won't respond to any past this one as you responded with nothing but words of hate and didn't provide any evidence to back up your claims.

Your post was about as useful as C.viper on wake up, or do you think that c.viper is the most top tier character eveR?!?!111112

Cut me some slack and actually read the words in this thread before you post again.

But do tell me what is so 'wrong' about that 'tier' list, and, while you are at it, tell me what was so 'wrong' about passing second hand information, I'd assume any information is better than no information (like your post, for example)

[Jav1ts]

I met kesh in person at CTF, really cool guy, and he doesn't seem to be spamming random tier lists.. He's just sharing some valuable info about which characters have been dominating in the Japanese arcades.. so don't hate! appreciate :) About tier lists though, personally I look at them just to get an idea of what characters to look out for. Tier lists can send out the wrong message by making someone drop their main character just because they're not high up on the tiers as opposed to learning how to play against "top tier" characters. Yea tournaments are about winning and a top tier character can maybe secure you a good spot but if your focus isn't on learning the mechanics of the game and more on learning a tier list you will always lose. I play Bison(dictator) at Chinatown Fair all the time. I get many streaks but also get some pretty bad losses especially to Joe's sagat and pretty much everyone Justin Wong plays :) but what do i do? I get back on that ridiculously long list to play SF4, rethink my strategy, and pick Bison again. People have to learn to win but first people have to learn to lose.. I don't care if I lose to Justin Wong and Joe over and over and over and over.. each time I try to take something from it and learn from my losses(I managed to beat Joe finally but he picked Ryu `-`). In a nutshell, I think people should get good by playing WAY more then they do, not by focusing on Japanese tier lists. If people here in America played as much as they do in Japan, the tiers would probably look different because of different play styles.

[wafflemonkey]

If you want to see people play characters that are "low tier" (lol), just go around telling people that c.Viper and el fuerte (or other misunderstood characters) are hawt in japan, and that they think that they are top tier. That way there will be more character diversity and people will start learning about the game.

And please stop the tier discussion. Don't say tier. Say that alot of people play the character and it seems to have (example) advantages over other. Don't say omg shoryu fa cancel to revenge? y would i play any other char. Your an idiot for playing X character and you might as well quit.

Edit: i can't wait for the first tourny where a fuerte gets matched up against only sagats and gief's and rapes them and everyone stfuppercuts themselves.

[AdverseSolutions]

funny that srk thinks we shouldn't talk about tiers

when 2ch and other japanese message boards hotly debate them

[wafflemonkey]

I'd be for "tier" discussions on srk, if they helped much. Instead of it being a place where people talk and debate well on the upsides of one char vs another, it turns ever so quickly into who has the smallest dick and the ugliest mother.

But if it was possible to have a constructive thread where people discussed gameplay and system mechanics instead of stupid one liner postings about how great one char is or how trash another one is, that would be cool. But you have to admit that this is srk and its too hard to maintain that.

[Jav1ts]

no what's funny is how nowhere in my post did i say "I want to see low tiers being played" or "I, Jav1ts, on behalf of SRK, believe we should not talk about tiers". What I DID say was that - I (me,myself) -personally- only look at them to get an idea of which characters are winning a lot.

[Master Chibi]

i think having tier lists at this point is fucking stupid as hell

the game is still in its infancy, so you're fine with saying stuff like sagat is being used alot or rufus seems to have a strong ground game, but to flat out come and say anyone can occupy a notch on a tier list at this point is worthless

[kesh!]

Eh, I wouldn't say a tier list is useless

because a tier list is information, whether its broken information or not.

The japanese excel at games because they spread information like wild fire (look at ino's thoughts for instance) and while you're looking at it, note how he says

'high middle. high upper'

etc.

but i'm not going to go into this discussion.

[Sage]

i think having tier lists at this point is fucking stupid as hell

Scrub.

Ino didn't think so when i asked him and from what i saw its pretty accurate so far.

[Jonlo]

I just want to say thanks to Kesh for the information about the ranbat. I have been wondering about this. Yes I'm pretty sure the tier list that he posted of course may not be accurate but its good to get an idea or some sense of what characters are generally winning and being played.

I don't understand why people are bashing him for his opinions/observations, its pretty useful. I just think you guys are just too bored. Seriously.

[nf0x]

...because the Japanese have such a bad resume when it comes to tiers

Thanks for the info, ignore the idiots.

[CFAY]

how far is game inn sakura from lets say shibuya?

[Master Chibi]

Scrub.

Nah chill.

The game hasn't been out long enough to warrant tiers of any sort, but based on how you replied you didn't read what I had to say either.

I'll say it again though; it's fine to say that this character is doing strongly out of the gate, or this character looks to have untapped potential, and all that. We can garner a great amount of discussion from it, and that's what we should be doing, but to say XX IS TOP TIER right now (outside of it being a mere literary term) isn't going to hold much water until this game gets out of the wading pool.

:P

[Radiantsilvergun3]

Viper has untapped potential! Just you wait! *Looks around paranoid*

[MOD]

how far is game inn sakura from lets say shibuya?

like 22 or 24 minutes from Shibuya.

You take the Yamanote line to Sugamo. Take the left exit and go across the street and walk left until you reach the tsutaya. Its just past it on the 2nd floor of a building. There is a tiny ass sign.

[ViciousSLASH]

I like Tier discussions.

At least they help Capcom have some idea who needs buffs or nerds or whatever.

Plus it's fun to debate which character is where and what.

As long as the tiers are pretty close, having tiers is always cool.

Of course I am a complete bottom tier can't even use a stick scrub. So what do I know.

[ElderGOD]

Claw and Viper are bottom tier.

If it wasn't bad enough my favorite GG character got moved to shit tier with AC, and now SF4.

I'm not touching SF4 until my bitch Viper gets fixed and Claw needs to be faster.

Get on it Capcom.

[MAGUS1234]

Thing is, claw and viper have answers to most situations. The way the game is made gives every char a chance. I main Viper and two friends I play with main claw, we bitch about how tough it can be, but the bottom line is we see a light at the end of the tunnel. No match is so bad that it feels like mvc2 low tier, or cvs2 A-bison, Chun v remy...etc

(this opinion subject to change)

[Rioting Soul]

Why do you feel that Claw is bottom?

[CFAY]

like 22 or 24 minutes from Shibuya.

You take the Yamanote line to Sugamo. Take the left exit and go across the street and walk left until you reach the tsutaya. Its just past it on the 2nd floor of a building. There is a tiny ass sign.

appreciate it, i thought it would be further. i'm going to see what that place is all about. might even go today if i feel good after work.

[Reno]

like 22 or 24 minutes from Shibuya.

You take the Yamanote line to Sugamo. Take the left exit and go across the street and walk left until you reach the tsutaya. Its just past it on the 2nd floor of a building. There is a tiny ass sign.

Ah Sugamo, the land of $30 blowjobs :lol:

[Sev]

Wait, so is Ken the only one with a kara throw? Or is his just the best one?


Claw has one too, but doesn't have the range of Ken's.

[CFAY]

Ah Sugamo, the land of $30 blowjobs :lol:

no post hijack but more info would be appreciated :pleased: