Will they make viper better in the consoles.

[blakkphire22]

I hope so. I hope she's not lowest of the low tier once the home versions hit.

What do you guys think?

[Tizoc]

DLC, son.

[KILABEE]

as far as im concerned Cviper is fine as long as shes in the hands of a good player.
yes, she has her hiccups against certain characters like Zangeif, but shes still good
when used right. her super and ultra are hard to connect tho so that might need a little tweakig.

[DS]

Viper is the same on console.

[The Electrifying One]

in this version she's the same. When they update the game, she'll be buffed I'd have thought.

[haunts]

as far as im concerned Cviper is fine as long as shes in the hands of a good player.
yes, she has her hiccups against certain characters like Zangeif, but shes still good
when used right. her super and ultra are hard to connect tho so that might need a little tweakig.

This.

She takes a bit too much damage imo but has all the tools to really roast most of the cast.

[DevilJin 01]

Another random ass rant from me.

There's still a lot to figure out in SFIV but it's obvious there's some areas that Viper is lacking and will stay lacking in as long as there's no real serious changes to her character in any possible update. If there is any area she would need a tone up in it's her normals. They're just not strong enough. Maybe I'm just used to playing Ibuki who had some of the best normals in 3rd Strike despite being the 7th or 8th worst character in the game.

I just find it strange that someone who has a very useful and tricky air special would have shitty air normals and sub par ground normals to go along with it. Her c.MK is cancellable which is a plus from Ibuki but it's not like it has a ton of priority and is rather slow. That on top of having rather risky options for escaping out of block strings and pressure situations keeps her from being as good as she could be. Her c.MP and c.HP aren't bad but most of the top half of the tier list can seem to even beat those normals for free. They're both normals that you kinda have to beat somebody to the punch with or create an opening for and they're not really going to contend with the likes of Rufus, Ryu, Zangief or Blanka.

Not that I've played the game a whole lot but I don't feel any of her standing normals are particularly strong either. Just messing around against the CPU her standing normals seem really lacking and it's no surprise that Kaqn and FZ just kinda stick with her cancellable crouching normals most of the time. I hear close s.MP is decent but that's bout it.

She has some other minor issues like lacking really good AA normals or AA's in general. Which isn't terrible since she seems to have other useful options for beating air games. She can quickly jump away from a jump in with tiger kneed burning kick or if there's enough time you can go under it with LP Thunder. HP Thunder isn't bad for beating jump ins but its nowhere near as scary of an AA as a dragon punch or even some of the AA normals that other characters have. Unless you get hit high out of the air with HP Thunder and Viper has an Ultra...I would say it's not the scariest thing in the world to go attempt a jump in on her. Her Ultra in itself basically doesn't work as an AA and she can't combo two HP Thunders unless she hits you from a decent height. Which even that does shit for damage.

Which I'm guessing the developers were really trying to emphasize the idea of using her thunder knuckle fakes to help bait attacks. Instead of just giving her all kinds of high priority normals on top of that and being another crazy rush character with great pokes. It makes her play style kinda intersting since it forces her to be a more reserved kinda rush character where you have to pick and choose your attacks carefully instead of just forcing the person into submission with high priority safe pokes and jab strings. Her runaway game is rather solid as well and in some of her more uphill matches she's kinda forced to. Her seismos give her a unique kinda threat where the opponent has to worry about blocking low even if you're nowhere near them. Being able to fake the seismo allows for even more mind games.

The normals are all I would really change with her though. She just needs even one normal that's really good. They're all either crap or fair at best. Her pressure game is still really solid despite. She has flashy combos that do decent damage and stun and you only need to hit somebody with like 2 or 3 rounds of c.MK to MP thunder knuckle to stun them. Viper gameplay wise is one of the most unique characters to ever grace a SF game. Which is really what I was looking for in SFIV. A character that truly made you feel like you were playing a new SF game. I understand a lot of fans and even Ono himself wanted to throw in all those old characters to bring back those who felt alienated by 3S's crazy roster of characters. I like the game of SF but I don't necessarily like playing as the typical run of the mill hadoken sonic boom character that always ends up in SF.

Oh yeah...her Ultra could be a little less shitty. :lol: Like either speed up the start up a little bit or not make the recovery negative 953 frames. A little bit more range so that it would be easier to combo from her TK'd normals wouldn't be bad either. I wish her super did a bit more damage too but that's more trivial.

[UltraDavid]

Have you seen Japanese Viper players? She's a fine character, don't worry about her. She's not really being played in SoCal, but that's mostly because she's a really hard character to pick up. When console comes out and people can practice, I have no doubt that she'll get more popular. And while I thought Gief killed her at first, I definitely don't think that anymore.

I don't even think her ultra needs to change, in the latest GameChariot vids Cocoon combos it off like every other dp he does. And in my opinion her crouching forward, overhead, and jumping roundhouse are really solid.

[The Lone Dragon]

There's still a lot to figure out in
Oh yeah...her Ultra could be a little less shitty.

There's really no excuse for making her complete that super slow Ultra animation when the first hit is blocked. That's clearly overkill, and Capcom should know that. Especially in comparison to other character's ultra recoveries.

[DevilJin 01]

Have you seen Japanese Viper players? She's a fine character, don't worry about her. She's not really being played in SoCal, but that's mostly because she's a really hard character to pick up. When console comes out and people can practice, I have no doubt that she'll get more popular. And while I thought Gief killed her at first, I definitely don't think that anymore.

I don't even think her ultra needs to change, in the latest GameChariot vids Cocoon combos it off like every other dp he does. And in my opinion her crouching forward, overhead, and jumping roundhouse are really solid.

Yeah maybe I just want her to be a little more broke. Like really the only thing I'm really complaining about is her normals. c.MK just isn't enough for my tastes. I want 3S Chun c.MK damn it. LOL. J.HK is definitely one of her better air normals but its still angled really weirdly and I guess her air normals are just done the way they are to compensate for her very useful burning kick special. I guess I'm just wishing she was a bit more on the broke side. Then again...that's what makes playing an underrated character fun. If Viper was (or somehow becomes) really F'd up then she won't seem as unique to me anymore.

I've seen plenty of Kaqn and FZ on GameChariot and a couple of other Vipers in random other videos. As a matter of fact...I try to only watch Viper matches. She's the only character that I really seem to click with or really find interesting to watch. Watching the world warriors fight in matchups somewhat similar to their SF2 matchups bores me and I won't really find it interesting until I start seriously playing the game (if even then). I like to just watch Viper players come up with new shit. I'm not really complaining so much as I am just wishing. I know Viper is going to get better with time (she already has) and this game so far is looking to be rather balanced matchup wise.

I think the Gief matchup is a challenge, but like you I don't think it's necessarily overwhelming. You just have to play extra safe and use a lot of trickery and movement to get around Gief. As long as Gief doesn't knock you down it seems he has a particuarly tough time dealing with her seismos and well timed tiger kneed burning kicks.

Vipers Ultra is definitely shitty only when used incorrectly though. Learning how to combo into it definitely negates its shortfalls and Viper's high jump cancels allow her to combo into her Ultra in ways that almost no other character in the game really can. Hit a normal at close range...you can combo into ultra. I just wish it was more useful in situations outside of combos. All that flashy bomb planting and fire kick shit and people can somehow jump in on you for free? LOL. I guess not everybody can have a GTFO me Ultra. For variety's sake maybe it's better that way.


There's really no excuse for making her complete that super slow Ultra animation when the first hit is blocked. That's clearly overkill, and Capcom should know that. Especially in comparison to other character's ultra recoveries.

I think so too. Just recovering from bomb explosion would be fine enough. Having her flip in the air like an idiot where no part of that has any air priority is just a waste of animation.

[Kunai]

Although I like the way Viper plays, yes she could use a few tweaks that would work in her favor. She is really that difficult to learn, and one mistake can cost you half your life at times. If she's going to be that vulnerable, I would hope they would give her a few more advantages offensively.

For example, her Ultra is really picky to land with if you try to use it as a juggle. Even if it looks like it will hit, at times it will not. I would either allow it to hit more often during juggles, or as mentioned before, leave her less vulnerable if the Ultra whiffs.

As DevilJin said, she only has 1 and a 1/2 ways to anti-air from the ground (back and HK is the 1/2, and it pretty much sucks because of how slow it is) and all of her normals are either weak, lack range, or don't have enough priority.

Highly doubt that Capcom will tweak Viper in SFIV's lifetime, though. If there's a follow-up, maybe. They haven't tweaked anything with the gameplay since the game's official release, and more than likely it will be the same when the console version comes out. Yeah, there'll be new characters, but the old characters will be the same I'm certain.

Anyone who wins with Viper has my utmost respect. That's really all I can say. Even Fuerte is becoming a more solid character than Viper nowadays, even though both characters demand a extremely high level of ability and SF-savvy. Viper doesn't have the intangibles like Fuerte does.

I would be all for giving Viper a little more help. Just a little, though.

[KILABEE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH7HNU17Wgs

well that's me playing guile and getting owned!
as far as im concerned viper can handle herself as is.
but id doesn't hurt that she gets a lil buffed.

[haunts]

Ive been playing a lot of Viper (played like 7 hrs today omg :rofl:) and Im still a total scrub with her but here are my thoughts... yeah I think the two main things are her anti airs and her Ultra. Really, its just her Ultra if you ask me. HP TK is a pretty good anti air and EX Burning Kick actually isnt too bad either if timed right. I havent messed around with back + HK but this isnt 3s with a parry or something so as long as you at least have one solid anti air you are good.

Her normals arent the best but if you pay attention you can still zone and capitlize on your opponents mistakes. I find her c.mp is pretty fast and beats a lot, you can cancel alot of stuff as you guys know from c.mk, her f+hk is pretty good as well (thanks to magus1234 for pointing that out to me the other day). Ive even been able to connect a lot of standing roundhouses when timed right. With her you just cant be as reckless as some other characters, you really have to make each move count.

but back to the Ultra... It seems like every other character has multiple ways to land their ultra with even a small opening but with her everything is so situational. Its not like you are down on life and can just do a certain move into FADC and you are back in the game. She just does not have the come back ability with her Ultra like the other characters do. It almost seems like there is something we dont know about the ultra becuase how could capcom miss this? She takes a ton of damage and she really needs a solid way to punish the rest of the cast with her Ultra.

One last thing I would LOVE to see but is not essential is to be able to FADC her wp or mp TK and connect with another combo. It was pretty heart breaking to find out she cant make use of the FADC like other characters can when the potential is right there in her rush down.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH7HNU17Wgs

well that's me playing guile and getting owned!
as far as im concerned viper can handle herself as is.
but id doesn't hurt that she gets a lil buffed.


TBH i think you are better than that viper you just got impatient and made a couple bad mistakes! Dont let a couple flashy combos keep you down. :looney:

[*Onslaught*]

If they can fix up her Ultra a bit, and give her a better health bar, she'll be set.

The fact that they're adding in 10 characters from the arcade version, I would hope the entire cast got rebalanced.

[haunts]

I can say that thus far not much has changed in the console version. What I posted was more like wish list for SFIV ver. 2 or whatever.

[RagingStormX]

I wouldnt worry about stuff too much. Wait for console when people can practice everyone to use who they really want. At a buck a game most people go the easy route.

[Kunai]

haunts: You are right about FADC with Viper.... I wish it could combo as well. I rarely use it because it's easy to counter her when someone expects it.

Her Saving Attack is also one of the slowest in the game... to the point that it's really fruitless to even think about using it in a practical sense. More and more people know how to get away from any Saving Attack pressure on wakeup and it doesn't help Viper's cause.

Yeah, the normals aren't great... to the point where you have to rely on other things (Burning Kick tricks and EX Seismo) to get your offense going. However, towards + FK eats up a lot of low attacks when timed right, and her overhead is great to use as well. She needs help against characters who can turtle and out-prioritize her attacks all day (for example, Blanka, Boxer or Dictator). When she can't do Burning Kick tricks or gets snuffed out every time she sticks out a normal, she really struggles to get any offense going.

If they honestly were able to change only a few things... I would rather they give her better Ultra juggle capabilities (at least, more reliability) and a better dash than better normals or another anti-air. A more useful Saving Attack would be nice as well. She needs to be scarier offensively. Right now, she feels limited and her offensive capabilities are highly situational. Many good players can keep her in check because of the limitations.

With Viper, there's too many bad points, not enough good. She really does fight an uphill battle most of the time.

[Shin_Kensou]

-hp fients make the FA/SA more useful but i will say that her SA/FA isnt the greatest. i think it jus needs to be faster a-la ryu or ken.
-i think a major change they should do is allow her SA/FA hit rufus on dizzy! only char i've played against that doesnt get hit by her SA on dizzy.
-her normals arent THAT bad...towards+rh is great vs lows and same with st. fwd. i think they should make st.fierce(far) cancelable or make it faster or give it a new animation cuz that is her most useless poke.
-speed up close st. fierce! many times i've jumped in with rh (blocked) then went into st. fierce and i've gotten thrown, anti poked, shoryu'd, and all kinda crap...definitely could use the tone up imo
-speed up her sweep...that thing is damn near useless. if it were faster u could do sum really amazing oki, like for instance close hp, hp tk fient, sweep knockdown. that'd really up her knockdown game and definitely make her alot more trickier in block strings. even if it were a punishable sweep on block, i'd rather have the sweep mixup incorporated than just the overhead.
-i agree that her ultra on juggle should be more consistant, cuz it does suck to go for the juggle and it looks like it SHOULD hit but it misses. if the slam misses she doesnt deserve to go flying into the skies praying that the opponent doesnt punish...uncool.

i dont think theres TOO much wrong with viper imo...she has just about all the tools she needs to win against he whole cast, but as u guys mentioned her normals and SA/FA could use a tweak.

[haunts]

-speed up close st. fierce! many times i've jumped in with rh (blocked) then went into st. fierce and i've gotten thrown, anti poked, shoryu'd, and all kinda crap...definitely could use the tone up imo


I think that is more the game system than anything else. AFAIK characters have less blockstun when blocking a jumping attack. I get thrown out of cross ups etc all the time.

[MSF78]

I was at Denjin early morning and got some practice with her. I took her up pretty fast and easy, especially on juggles.

Any frame data out yet? I'm a take her up.

[haunts]

I was at Denjin early morning and got some practice with her. I took her up pretty fast and easy, especially on juggles.

Any frame data out yet? I'm a take her up.


Yes but you dont want to see it.. It will make you sad. :shake:

[7Deadly]

Hmm i dunno, she seems solid. She is obviously just a character that uses more mind games than direct beatdown, simple as that. Her normals are not amazing damage wise, but they are fast and have nice range. The whole point is to set up specials and keep momentum. She has really good up-close pressure and she can handle herself at a distance. Fact of the matter is that she has tons of options in a lot of different situations. Also her grabs are nice and she has amazing mix-ups.

[Dwin]

make one of C.vipers rushing thunder punches an overhead, lol maybe just the ex version.


Give her a bit more health.



thats all.

[shatterstar]

woah, wait...

when did consoles have vipers in them?

*looks around*

oh, now "red ring of death" makes so much more sense.

360s go RROD because they have vipers in them just waiting to pounce on dat arse.

[The Contact]

I was watching a gootechs arcade infinity vid today and is c.viper uhhhh less endowed in the american versions? Or a better way of putting it is she uhhh more endowed in the japanese version. Because if so that may carry over to consoles.

[*Onslaught*]

I was watching a gootechs arcade infinity vid today and is c.viper uhhhh less endowed in the american versions? Or a better way of putting it is she uhhh more endowed in the japanese version. Because if so that may carry over to consoles.

There's only one arcade version. . .:sweat:

[crazydiamond]

If everybody took the same skill level to play the game would suffer more for being boring.

[The Contact]

There's only one arcade version. . .:sweat:

I don't know I kinda compared the American from the Japanese and they look different. She kinda looks smaller.

[*Onslaught*]

I don't know I kinda compared the American from the Japanese and they look different. She kinda looks smaller.

There is no American arcade. It's all the same exact game.

[The Contact]

There is no American arcade. It's all the same exact game.

So Gouki is called akuma in japan? They just change the name in the bios?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjMlQZdnbkM&feature=channel_page

[TempestFox]

Same game, different language setup. It can be played in english or japanese. It corrects the names for us westerners.

[The Contact]

Dude I just got trolled by arcade infinity.

[crazydiamond]

There's only one arcade version. . .:sweat:

Although there are some differences between different games in different arcades.

Esp the character ranking screen. Some have only percentage whilst others have a little meter and then percentages as well.

[Gojira]

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/streetfighteriv/video/6202952/start-select-09-01-09?hd=1

I don't know if anyone knew this already but it looks like Capcom redrew Viper's Vs. screen art. (9:33)

[Kunai]

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/streetfighteriv/video/6202952/start-select-09-01-09?hd=1

I don't know if anyone knew this already but it looks like Capcom redrew Viper's Vs. screen art. (9:33)

Ken's looks redrawn too.

They both look weird now... shouldn't have messed with it. But oh well, it's only profile art.

[Remix1213]

IMHO from playing people at Chinatown Fair I think she

A. Needs a more reliable normal AA (There is no excuse why she doesnt have at least 1 moves that beats jump-ins clean everyone else does...)

B. Needs to do better damage (if someone messes up a combo you cant do anything to make them say to themselves "Ow let me not risk that again" Then again she isnt Sagat is she? =\

C.When she misses ultra it should not be THAT punishable. (I miss ultra you can taunt me and still combo me, thats inexcusable)

I was talking with Justin about her last night and he said she's good but not scrubby enough to be top which i hate to agree to but hes right. Why pick viper and think when you can pick a character like sagat and do like %40 off 1 c.short x3 ,f.tiger uppercut FADC tiger uppercut?

[Edg3]

I use to play viper, and I feel that she may be lacking some HP, but in the right hands she can rape you hard. As for her ultra it's good you just have to capitalize on openings.

[kenuran]

no!!!

[*Onslaught*]

From the latest Gt videos it looks like her health has been upped a bit. I'm not certain though.

[blakkphire22]

ok so after spending some time in cf with lemon wong. i picked up somethings and i got more play time (my initial play time was in Japan was bountiful in America not so much) i think viper plays alot like an snk character. she still needs a lil bit more like more health i think imho. Its just you have to think a lot more when you player her. sorta like playing badguy in accent core. he's not bad but he has to work harder since other chars are beefed up. sorry if this is mad obvious i was just talking to my friend about who we run and why (he runs claw).

[7Deadly]

I mean honestly, all you need is the learn the character plain and simple. She's fine the way she is, and she has the tools to take down pretty much the whole cast. She really only has significant trouble against gief.

[DevilJin 01]

Apparently the Japanese think Honda is another really bad match for her (7-3 adv. Honda) and I think so too. She can't really punish headbutt AFAIK with anything other than jab or maybe c.MP as it's flying at her. Obviously on block Honda is safe unless Viper has super (I'm assuming she can punish with super) and EX headbutt I can imagine can't even be touched. Like Zangief...Honda has a ton of ways to get out of jump ins and cross ups or punish mistimed cross up attempts. Which means Viper has to spend more of the match baiting and faking attempts than really going for any real pressure and that's great for Honda cuz he never has to get hit unless he makes a real obvious mistake.

I guess that makes things interesting though since otherwise Honda is one of the lower tiered characters in the game. If she at least had a projectile the matchup would be considerably less difficult but seismos I can't imagine scare Honda that much when he can just sit on a health lead and headbutt over them.

[Hermit_Naii]

From the latest Gt videos it looks like her health has been upped a bit. I'm not certain though.

Can anybody confirm?

[Kunai]

Apparently the Japanese think Honda is another really bad match for her (7-3 adv. Honda) and I think so too. She can't really punish headbutt AFAIK with anything other than jab or maybe c.MP as it's flying at her. Obviously on block Honda is safe unless Viper has super (I'm assuming she can punish with super) and EX headbutt I can imagine can't even be touched. Like Zangief...Honda has a ton of ways to get out of jump ins and cross ups or punish mistimed cross up attempts. Which means Viper has to spend more of the match baiting and faking attempts than really going for any real pressure and that's great for Honda cuz he never has to get hit unless he makes a real obvious mistake.

I guess that makes things interesting though since otherwise Honda is one of the lower tiered characters in the game. If she at least had a projectile the matchup would be considerably less difficult but seismos I can't imagine scare Honda that much when he can just sit on a health lead and headbutt over them.

Yeah, Honda is a bad matchup IMO, as well as Boxer. Boxer beats out Viper's normals with his own all day, can rush down relentlessly with the fast rush punches, and creates havoc with his pokestrings to throws. Viper's Burning Kick is pretty much nullified by his headbutt and some of his normal attacks. Takes away a lot of what Viper likes to do.

I don't think anything will change with her when the home version comes out, but it would always be nice if she was beefed up a little. If she is going to have little options on defense, low stamina and low damage potential, I would hope they would at least give her more offensive firepower that would be hard to deal with for most, if not all characters.

[whippet]

I'm pretty excited to try her out...I like a good challenge

[comoesa]

I actually now think viper is pretty solid.


The only change I would recommend is an increase in health.

[Sakura.Densetsu]

From what I have seen in Videos, Viper is more than decent. Far from low tier. I think she just has a hard learning curve and doesn't play the same as the majority of Street Fighter characters. She has alot of tools to work with. I think once te game is more well analyzed people will find she is at least mid/upper mid. Good mixup game.

[Kunai]

DevilJin: I forgot to mention how fun it is to pretend that CPU Honda is like Bald Bull from Punch-Out... waiting for him to torpedo you and seeing if you can time a jab or crouching MP to hit him at the correct time. :wink:

[Nilo]

Don't understand why people want her to have more health or better move. From all the Jap players i have seen on the internet and some American players as well, she kicks ass!

Why fix something that aint broke?

[bmckay]

Don't understand why people want her to have more health or better move. From all the Jap players i have seen on the internet and some American players as well, she kicks ass!

Why fix something that aint broke?
It's because no matter who she's up against, it's an uphill battle. A health bump of 100 would put her up quite a bit, actually.

[DevilJin 01]

Well she does have some even matches or matches that she actually wins...though she only wins matches against characters that are already lower on the tier list than she is. She only goes even with or loses (not by a lot) to the 10 best characters in the game.

Luckily because of how well balanced the game seems to be...in most of your matches you are worst at a disadvantage and never severely disadvantaged except against Honda. Meaning with the right mind set and enough luck you can win against any character in the game. Even Sagat is very fightable. There's just the fact that there aren't too many matches against the better characters that you can just kinda auto pilot and win against. You'll have to do some struggling against most of the characters in the game and won't be able to make mistakes quite as often as other characters. I'm used to that playing Ibuki though so hey.

[bmckay]

Well she does have some even matches or matches that she actually wins...though she only wins matches against characters that are already lower on the tier list than she is. She only goes even with or loses (not by a lot) to the 10 best characters in the game.

Luckily because of how well balanced the game seems to be...in most of your matches you are worst at a disadvantage and never severely disadvantaged except against Honda. Meaning with the right mind set and enough luck you can win against any character in the game. Even Sagat is very fightable. There's just the fact that there aren't too many matches against the better characters that you can just kinda auto pilot and win against. You'll have to do some struggling against most of the characters in the game and won't be able to make mistakes quite as often as other characters. I'm used to that playing Ibuki though so hey.
Yeah, I heard Ibuki could work it, so...
I see what you mean about Viper not really having completely uphill battles, though. At least she breaks even in a couple matchups. One is always better than none unless we're talking about STDs.

[Remix1213]

I heard that her Fierce Punch Thunder Knuckle will beat air moves clean now instead of trading...