Whining about Fei Long and Fei Long Players thread with some Hawk mixed in

[spudlyff8fan]

So yeah. If you catch a guy the right way with the flying kicks, you can juggle w/ flame kicks.

More importantly, if you catch somebody with the proper spacing with a flying kick, you can get a really nice throw situation after their block stun.

Iunno any combos though...can anybody hook a brotha up?

[Mariodood]

Old school Fei combos that I remember:

Jump-in HK, Close HP x Rekkas

Super-Meaty Close HP, walkup HP x Rekkas

[Weasel]

Almost ALL of your combos will start with close standing fierce because it's the most damaging and the only practical one to use since New Fei can only combo off of his punches.

-Dizzy Combos (combos that will often dizzy the opponent)

Meaty Double Low Fierce - These are very hard to counter because it can only be countered by a perfect reversal. Risky but worth it if you think your opponent is not 100% consistent with their reversals.

Multiple Standing Fierce(Handshake) - Not really a combo but if your opponents are really into using pokes to keep you away be sure to show them how friendly you are by sticking out your standing fierce "handshake" punch. It counters many moves cleanly and does very very good dizzy damage. I have seen opponents get hit with just 2 of these and get dizzy. This punch has good recovery time too so use it in close quarters.

Standard Combos (combos to do when the opponent is dizzy)

5 Hit Rekka - Basic jump in combo that is easy and damaging. Use roundhouse or forward kick instead of fierce. Fierce has a funny habit of whiffing through your opponent if you try to hit too deeply. Use the kicks instead as they provide a little more reach and have a better chance of connecting. Follow up the jump in attack with a connecting close fierce and 2 in 1 into rekka punches for a deadly 5 hit combo. If you are lucky you can score a dizzy too! Try this combo with Fei's cross up forward kick.

3 Hit Burn - Jump in with attack of choice, followup with jab, strong or fierce 2 in 1 into short flame kick. Quick damage and a knockdown. Again, also try this with Fei's cross up forward kick.

3 Hit Cross Up Links - Cross up forward kick, close standing strong, low fierce.

Special Combos VS Guile, Dhalsim, Zangief and Fei - Cross up forward, close standing strong(or standing forward), standing jab 2 in 1 into short flame kick. It dizzies almost every time and does nearly 50% damage. It only works on these characters because of their hit animations. This is a link combo, not a chain.

Super Juggle - If you connect with a rekka kick(chicken wing)you can juggle your opponents for additional damage if timed correctly. You can also do the opposite by hitting them with a super and then juggling with the rekka kick. The opportunities are quite random but you can usually tell if it will connect by the way your opponent is falling. Some say this is kinda fancy but every bit of energy you can drain helps.

--Jumpsuit

That is taken straight from the Fei Long (ST) Shoryuken Wiki Page (http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Fei_Long_(ST))

The only combo that I know of that worked in ST and doesn't in Remix is the chicken wing comboing into a fierce punch xx 3 rekkas, Sirlin took that combo out by increasing the recovery time of the chicken wing.

The only new Remix combos involve the Flame Kick juggling because it didn't have that property in ST.

[AtTheGates]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sidx2jx9tm4

forget about the flying kick combos though =(

[eddymasta]

I'm liking fei in this one, its just tough getting used to the weakened chicken wing. I'm used to throwing that move out and beating anything in the air besides chuns aerials. That definitely does not work anymore.

[AtTheGates]

my experiences so far with lk chickenwing just tell me that i gotta play more. i tried it fullscreen, it was easy as hell to punish for dj, just walk up kick or even slide. really depressing.

also, the lag after chickenwing is driving me insane, i dont think i will play fei in HD remix, i dont feel like "unlearning" the old timing, then learning the new one. if i ever play normal ST, it will just screw with my timing.
if you ever end up behind your opponent after a chickenwing - which DOES happen every other match or so, depending on your playstyle - you are now in a disadvantageous situation.
you are so close that your enemy can throw you no matter what normal you use, so you are almost forced to use flamekick.


another thing, i always considered fei's meaties integral to his gameplay, i guess that's over now with the ultra-easy reversals.

oh and the juggle into flamekick is supposed to make up for the CW nerfs? seriously, they even made the anti-air priority of CW worse, so it's less likely you hit in that situation.

[eddymasta]

my experiences so far with lk chickenwing just tell me that i gotta play more. i tried it fullscreen, it was easy as hell to punish for dj, just walk up kick or even slide. really depressing.

also, the lag after chickenwing is driving me insane, i dont think i will play fei in HD remix, i dont feel like "unlearning" the old timing, then learning the new one. if i ever play normal ST, it will just screw with my timing.
if you ever end up behind your opponent after a chickenwing - which DOES happen every other match or so, depending on your playstyle - you are now in a disadvantageous situation.
you are so close that your enemy can throw you no matter what normal you use, so you are almost forced to use flamekick.


another thing, i always considered fei's meaties integral to his gameplay, i guess that's over now with the ultra-easy reversals.

oh and the juggle into flamekick is supposed to make up for the CW nerfs? seriously, they even made the anti-air priority of CW worse, so it's less likely you hit in that situation.

Yeah, I learned that no more meaties seem to be allowed in HD Remix. I've gotten reversaled more times then I would like to count

[Weasel]

What makes you think reversals are any easier in Remix? Sirlin only made the input window for the dragon punch type moves always 15 frames instead of a random 8-15, but you still have to time it so it comes out in 1 frame...

The motion is not what made reversals difficult, it was the precise timing - which hasn't changed at all.

[Sosage]

Maybe it is just me, but the corner trap potential with Fei seems greater in this version. The range of some of his normals "feels"* a lot friendlier for post-chickenwing pokes, into a chickenwing reset or rekka, into more pokes and repeat.

Fun, fun, fun, FUN, FUN! =)

* feewing doesn't mean shit in this discussion...just saying...

[Weasel]

Anyway, change of topic, anyone have any good ideas on how to deal with Honda?

I played a couple today and spent the better part of the match huddled in a corner because he just headbutted any time I flinched. I know you can beat headbutt with a standing fierce, but it is hard to time and not real reliable. Flame kick would work if I could read minds, but I can't so it usually doesn't - unless I get lucky with a random one.

Headbutt is a good enough anti-air to beat my chicken wings most of the time, and blocked rekkas seem to lead to a free headbutt every time before I recover. Anyone know if you can rekka a blocked headbutt before it recovers?

Any other thoughts on this matchup?

[AtTheGates]

vs. honda:

- as you say, HP beats headbutt, it's a 50/50 on which i personally only rely if i really really have to (far away from honda, need to get in)

- if you get thrown after your rekkas, you probably do them with the wrong buttons. do them in this order: HP, MP, LP. that leaves you farther away, and they still can combo depending on the distance. If you do a max range HP rekka MP rekka, you can hit confirm into another MP rekka to make sure they combo.

- sirlin suggests that the new rekka range should help deal with turtling hondas, also, afaik the hitbox of his slaps are a little worse.

[blitzfu]

vs. honda:

- as you say, HP beats headbutt, it's a 50/50 on which i personally only rely if i really really have to (far away from honda, need to get in)

- if you get thrown after your rekkas, you probably do them with the wrong buttons. do them in this order: HP, MP, LP. that leaves you farther away, and they still can combo depending on the distance. If you do a max range HP rekka MP rekka, you can hit confirm into another MP rekka to make sure they combo.

- sirlin suggests that the new rekka range should help deal with turtling hondas, also, afaik the hitbox of his slaps are a little worse.

Definitely keep Honda FAR FAR away from you. Up close is where Honda sodomizes Fei.

When he's close keep your cool,
don't try to read minds unless you really can,
block your ass off,
keep your eyes open for throw reversals,
if you see butt splash, dragon if you can, if you don't feel confident with dragon, fierce rekka ken to run away,
if he torpedoes, use normals to push him out,
if he spams hundred slaps, especially fierce, may God help you,

if and when you have pushed him far away from you, a good strategy is to poke with rekka punches, but only at their farthest ranges so you have more time to block if he counter pokes, for the fierce, this is almost half screen away

short chicken wing to catch him blocking low as well as overhead

dragon kick the butt splashes and torpedoes if you're fast enough as well as all air attacks

keep the space between yourself and him

if you do knock him down, go for the cross up shenanigans and/or tick throws as well as tons of meaties as Honda doesn't have fast reversal

use the super at every opportunity you get, as this is one of Fei's hardest matchups and no point in storing it

.....and then wait for the patch that nerfs the hundred slaps as this move is hugely monstrous now, I find anyway.

Hope that helped. = )

[AtTheGates]

Definitely keep Honda FAR FAR away from you. Up close is where Honda sodomizes Fei.

i guess you mean keep him in your HP rekka max range? cause far away would make no sense at all. out-turtle honda? bad idea.




if you see butt splash, dragon if you can, if you don't feel confident with dragon, fierce rekka ken to run away,

just use close HP instead if you dont feel confident.



if you do knock him down, go for the cross up shenanigans and/or tick throws as well as tons of meaties as Honda doesn't have fast reversal

he can negative edge reversal ochio every time and is safe.

[blitzfu]

he can negative edge reversal ochio every time and is safe.

You're thinking of stored Ochio which has been removed from Remix.

eg Fei does tick throw, negative edge Ochio would be too slow to throw Fei first, while stored Ochio would kill any tick attempt

Negative edge Ochio would be useful offensively, not defensively.

eg Honda safe jumps with Jab, crouching Jab and holds down Jab for negative edge, performs Ochio motion and releases Jab. If Fei blocked everything, he's butt slammed. If Fei reversal attacked, Honda is safe as releasing Jab doesn't release any poke Jab and Honda can then block the reversal attack and go for the counter attack.

[eddymasta]

I still have major problems with runaway bisons. I'm a complete scrub when it comes to this match, and I have NO idea what to do

[AtTheGates]

You're thinking of stored Ochio which has been removed from Remix.

eg Fei does tick throw, negative edge Ochio would be too slow to throw Fei first, while stored Ochio would kill any tick attempt

Negative edge Ochio would be useful offensively, not defensively.


no, i was thinking of reversal ochio with negative edge input. I assumed we were talking about an okizeme situation, for example against fei's meaties. i guess it comes down to how you like to set up your tick throws, some of them are definitely not that easy to ochio, while others just become pointless.

[pplcallmeGOD]

You're thinking of stored Ochio which has been removed from Remix.

Honda still has his stored Ochio. Sirlin only took out Honda's stored super.

[Weasel]

Honda still has his stored Ochio. Sirlin only took out Honda's stored super.

pplcallmeGOD is correct, Honda still has his stored Ochio. Sirlin did however make Honda bounce the other way after the throw so it can't be repeated in the corner. Predictable jump-ins are suicide against the stored throw unless Honda is crouching or you hit really late so you can combo into a ground move.


vs. honda:

- as you say, HP beats headbutt, it's a 50/50 on which i personally only rely if i really really have to (far away from honda, need to get in)

- if you get thrown after your rekkas, you probably do them with the wrong buttons. do them in this order: HP, MP, LP. that leaves you farther away, and they still can combo depending on the distance. If you do a max range HP rekka MP rekka, you can hit confirm into another MP rekka to make sure they combo.

- sirlin suggests that the new rekka range should help deal with turtling hondas, also, afaik the hitbox of his slaps are a little worse.

Good stuff, didn't know that about the different strength rekkas. I will have to give that a try.

[blitzfu]

Honda still has his stored Ochio. Sirlin only took out Honda's stored super.

D'oh! (insert clip of Homer Simpson slapping his head here) My bad. I mixed up the 2 stored moves. Ochio is in, SUPER is out. Thanks for the reminder.

So.....stored Ochio is in.....my advice is then....don't even bother attacking Honda...just put the controller down when you see Honda on the VS screen against Fei...and then kiss your ass goodbye cuz Fei is fucked.

Just kidding.

Fei will just have to limit his offense more now when meatying, probably just a 1-hit strike from far. Tick-throws will be DAMN NEAR impossible against an expert Honda player storing the Ochio now. Oh well....

[Chemical Justice]

Any tips against Claw? I keep getting rushed down. The only thing I could think to do is flame kick him out of the air, but my reaction time tends to be too slow.

[SunocO]

Any tips against Claw? I keep getting rushed down. The only thing I could think to do is flame kick him out of the air, but my reaction time tends to be too slow.

yeah i have mad problems with claw too. i can't seem to put pressure which is how i play with every other character.

i also can't seem to get 3x rekka's to connect. i tried every combination but it still never connects. what am i doing wrong?

[KrsJin]

yeah i have mad problems with claw too. i can't seem to put pressure which is how i play with every other character.

i also can't seem to get 3x rekka's to connect. i tried every combination but it still never connects. what am i doing wrong?

I'm assuming you're getting the first two to connect with little problem ya?

Try using fierce to practice, do the first two then conciously input the third rekka slower than the first two. Basically, input the last rekka when the second one connects and get the feeling for that. If you were to count to 4 in terms of beats, it'd be kinda like 1st, 2nd, -, 3rd. Not quite that slow but that may help. Tough to put into words but I too was having problems with it and this helped me.

[SunocO]

^thank you for the tip! the first 2 connect but it's the last one that they either block or i can't pull it off. that's exactly the problem i'm having.

are you on psn? i would love to watch and play your fei long. would also like to hear what you think of my playskill.

[Kamui]

I'm not liking the lessened frame advantage on Fei's flip kick at all. I'm pretty sure that in certain situations I'm being left at a slight disadvantage (-1 ish). It seems like Zangief players have been able to SPD my recovery if the last hit of the kick hits sort of high. Has anyone else noticed this?

[RagingStormX]

I'm not liking the lessened frame advantage on Fei's flip kick at all. I'm pretty sure that in certain situations I'm being left at a slight disadvantage (-1 ish). It seems like Zangief players have been able to SPD my recovery if the last hit of the kick hits sort of high. Has anyone else noticed this?

Yes I have, I knew this was gonna happen even before the release. Only "buff" he got was longer rekka reach. Whoo hoo.

[UltraDavid]

First impression is that Fei seems worse. His longer rekkas are nice, but also bad in that they can leave you unsafe. And it's nice that chicken wing is usable and that the short version goes through fireballs, but does it really have to be so crappy on on block/hitstun? I hit a Zangief player with it today, tried to jump in expectation of spd (planning to come down and combo into rekkas), and he grabbed me out of my prejump frames. Chicken wing seems like an unusable move against Zangief and Hawk from anything but max range.

Love his super though. And being able to actually piano reversal flame kicks is great, nice not having to worry that my reversal might not knock down.

[AlTheHoly]

Yeah, CW isn't very cool anymore, but the flame kick is nice now, have yet to juggle with it though, the situations I can do it in occur to infrequently to make me learn to use it.

EDIT: Anyone notice after some extended play, the music eventually stops playing during matches?

[The Mullah]

Afterblocking a blanka ball, free rekkas?

[AtTheGates]

Any tips against Claw? I keep getting rushed down. The only thing I could think to do is flame kick him out of the air, but my reaction time tends to be too slow.

what worked in ST for me was to use lots of c.MP as a poke. beats out slide if done early. spam c.MP and concentrate on when to do flamekick. you have to be very careful in this match. maybe now with the increased rekka range you can do a HP rekka if claw tries to poke with c.MP from time to time, but that's just me speculating.

[MADsix]

What do you guys use against Claw's flying drop when it is too late to do the flame kick?
I instinctively try to use close HP or j.LK.

[ZeonTheUnborn]

Nope. No free rekka after Blanka ball.

BUT! Flame kicks beat the rainbow roll.

And Blocked rekka = free Blanka ball

Unless you do HP, MP and stop(if it's blocked) if the MP hits you can finish it with another MP.

Chicken Wing hits if blanka does that super jump. Chicken Wing loses to rainbow roll, and some of blanka's normals. Chicken Wing has some crossup potential, but only if the last foot hits, and you have to do it late late.

[spudlyff8fan]

You can combo flying kicks off eachother. If you catch the guy in the air, you can hit them with an HK flying kick, then again with another MK flying kick, then you can hit them with a flame kick. You can get some pretty great damage off this. Alternatively, you can combo into the super, rather than the flame kick. It usually only has one hit, but you can usually land 2 against the wall. Haven't tried this with Rekkas...

[AtTheGates]

you cannot combo flying kicks with rekkas. flying kick into flying kick into super has been around since ST.
explanation:
ST juggle limit: 3 hits (3 chickenwings are possible if they each hit with 1 hit only)
supers break the juggle limit, so you could add a super after the 3 hits or even after 1, the super only hits with a maximum of 4 hits though.

hdr juggle rules:
4 hits are possible and flame kick juggles after flying kick. (special rule for fei accodring to sirlins blog).

[Exarkun]

you cannot combo flying kicks with rekkas. flying kick into flying kick into super has been around since ST.
explanation:
ST juggle limit: 3 hits (3 chickenwings are possible if they each hit with 1 hit only)
supers break the juggle limit, so you could add a super after the 3 hits or even after 1, the super only hits with a maximum of 4 hits though.

hdr juggle rules:
4 hits are possible and flame kick juggles after flying kick. (special rule for fei accodring to sirlins blog).

Fail.

Fei can do his CW, into C. Jab into Rekka, or even Shin Rekka. I've been screwing around with this today and found out on big characters (have not tested on small characters) that fei does have his old combo, it's just tuned down alot.

Fei needs to be at a distance, and have his third hit of the CW hit, the third hit must hit in order for the C. Jab to connect, if the CW hits twice, fei is in recovery frame from the CW attack. Although the damage is shit, it is still able to combo and even build up meter and knock down which is good no matter what. the legend goes

----, Cw, Last hit Only! C. Jab, rekka x3
----, Cw, Last hit only! C. Jab, Flame Kick

It's difficult to pull off some of his advance shit, I'll post later, here are some basic ones and a dizzy

---- Close, S. Jabx3, c. jab, Rekka= 7
----- Close, S. Jab, C. Jab, Rekka=5
---- Cross over with Foward, S. Jab x3, C. Fierce= Dizzy I don't know how this works exactly but I pulled it off twice after countless retries, note this combo was done on Gief Still have no idea how it was pulled off.

I am still fucking around with fei, Will post shit later.

[oldboy]

I hate how I can finally do chicken wings with ease now, but the sole reason I needed to be able to do chicken wings has been stripped from the game.

chicken wing into s. Fierce repeat was so much fun too. :(

[KrsJin]

^thank you for the tip! the first 2 connect but it's the last one that they either block or i can't pull it off. that's exactly the problem i'm having.

are you on psn? i would love to watch and play your fei long. would also like to hear what you think of my playskill.

I am on PSN but to be honest, I'm really bad at this game, I would be in no position to judge your Fei or your overall game haha.

The lack of frame advantage on chicken wing took me awhile to get use to. That said though, I am finding more and more applications for it.

My stance on Fei is that I feel comfortable against any shoto with him but outside of that I feel he has a lot of bad matchups again haha. He's still the most fun to play for me though.

[KING]

I hate how I can finally do chicken wings with ease now, but the sole reason I needed to be able to do chicken wings has been stripped from the game.

chicken wing into s. Fierce repeat was so much fun too. :(

...there's vanilla ST on the there, ya' know. :wink:


and yes, i miss the lockdown also. :sad:

[Higher-Jin]

You can rekka blocked blanka balls, it's just strict timing and if you fuck up you get a blanka ball to the face.

[blazeu25]

You can rekka blocked blanka balls, it's just strict timing and if you fuck up you get a blanka ball to the face.

yes i have caught lots of blankas after ball but i prolly got lucky lol.so far im owning alot with fei but i have alotof problems with turtles. any advice on that?

[oldboy]

...there's vanilla ST on the there, ya' know. :wink:


and yes, i miss the lockdown also. :sad:


Vanilla ST with that goddamn tiger knee motion. I hate that thing. End up jumping and getting dped for free. :shake:

[AtTheGates]

Fail.


i assumed he was talking about juggles. comboing into c.lp rekkas as you say works, but imo it's too unreliable.

[The Furious One]

Fail.

Fei can do his CW, into C. Jab into Rekka, or even Shin Rekka. I've been screwing around with this today and found out on big characters (have not tested on small characters) that fei does have his old combo, it's just tuned down alot.

Fei needs to be at a distance, and have his third hit of the CW hit, the third hit must hit in order for the C. Jab to connect, if the CW hits twice, fei is in recovery frame from the CW attack. Although the damage is shit, it is still able to combo and even build up meter and knock down which is good no matter what. the legend goes

----, Cw, Last hit Only! C. Jab, rekka x3
----, Cw, Last hit only! C. Jab, Flame Kick

It's difficult to pull off some of his advance shit, I'll post later, here are some basic ones and a dizzy

---- Close, S. Jabx3, c. jab, Rekka= 7
----- Close, S. Jab, C. Jab, Rekka=5
---- Cross over with Foward, S. Jab x3, C. Fierce= Dizzy I don't know how this works exactly but I pulled it off twice after countless retries, note this combo was done on Gief Still have no idea how it was pulled off.

I am still fucking around with fei, Will post shit later.

Any chance you could video this.

I've been trying out fei, im terrible lol, but the chicken wing just sails over fireballs lol, actually beat down Dhalsim with just that lol. :rofl:

Does step-in kick after a blocked Blanka Ball still connect??

[Chacranajxy]

So, I was one of those shoto-**** that everyone loved to hate... in HF, I always played as Ryu or Ken. Well, I'm fixing that now, and one of the characters I'm trying to play as is Fei-Long. I think I've got a decent grasp of the basics, but what are some of things I should keep in mind when playing Fei-Long? So I get wrecked less frequently.

[SunocO]

I am on PSN but to be honest, I'm really bad at this game, I would be in no position to judge your Fei or your overall game haha.

The lack of frame advantage on chicken wing took me awhile to get use to. That said though, I am finding more and more applications for it.

My stance on Fei is that I feel comfortable against any shoto with him but outside of that I feel he has a lot of bad matchups again haha. He's still the most fun to play for me though.

haha i actually feel the same way about shotos. maybe it's cause i face them a lot more i know what to expect/do then when i play a rog or vega player.

i'm on psn so i'll add you. i've been playing a lot with other srkers in a room. i'll invite next time that happens.

[DeepThoughts]

I like cr.lk, cr.lp (or standing lp) -> rekka x3 (or dk or super) because it hits low and is confirmable. You can also substitute hp for lp if you're following with rekka. I usually go for these after doing a few overheads on their wakeup to condition them to block high.

Judging by the hitboxes, cr.mp is fei's longest poke, but the blue and red seem to overlap completely, meaning it will always trade if the opp is sticking something out?

[KING]

I like cr.lk, cr.lp (or standing lp) -> rekka x3 (or dk or super) because it hits low and is confirmable. You can also substitute hp for lp if you're following with rekka. I usually go for these after doing a few overheads on their wakeup to condition them to block high.

Judging by the hitboxes, cr.mp is fei's longest poke, but the blue and red seem to overlap completely, meaning it will always trade if the opp is sticking something out?

looks like you've answered your own question.

[Jumpsuit]

I have spent a ton of time checking Fei out thoroughly over the past 3 days and I have some very interesting things to say about him.

First, I wanna say thanks to D.Sirlin for helping to create such a great product. The game is a Godsend and it's been nonstop fun. I am soo exhausted from playing but I love it.

Now onto Fei and the things I have discovered.

Believe it or not, Fei feels alot like A3 Fei long now. Everything from his rekkas to his meaty attacks seem different and feel alot like a3 but that's just what it felt like to me. He feels heavier, like operating an SUV version of Fei whereas OG ST fei was like handling a go cart. He has alot more slop now, but nothing practice can't remedy.

Overall I am gonna say that Fei Long is too damned strong now. I know, I know..I was pissin and moanin about Fei sucking but hear me out. I was both right and wrong.

Fei is beefed up too much because of one thing. His Rekka Punches. I was toying with these things alot and holy shit, it's as if he's king of the floor now against most fighters. I spent HOURS playing some really good Sagat players and Guile players and even they were like DAYUM!

His corner trap patterns still work great but you have to sorta guage the distance on the fly to be effective. Here is what I found.

1. If you're still in the habit of staying within Fei's original ST range for rekka pressure you gotta change it up by starting it with STRONG punch. What's good about this is that if you connect with strong you can still combo the rekkas using all strong punches. If it's blocked you can create your own tempo. Strong-Jab...wait. Strong, strong, jab. You would not believe how many times I did FIERCE, strong, jab and got OWNED by low fwd kicks, scissor kicks and punches.

I would recommend getting used to Fei's new ground superiority and start gauging where he can stand back as far as possible and still connect cleanly with his all fierce rekkas. This alone makes him insanely good on the ground now.

2. His CW kicks are a mixed back now. But by far the most useful is the short kick version for several reasons.
It's an easy overhead now, goes through fireballs....and if you do it at the right distance you get pushed back enough to be safe most of the time. In one match i was about to die and a honda player was doing hand slaps as I was getting up....I am known for doing wake up CW kicks in ST and I was able to pull off a wake up short CW and it breezed right through the hands and gave me all 3 hits of the cw kick ...resulting in a KO for me. Everyone in the room was like WTF!? Crazy indeed.

His fwd and rh versions of the CW are kinda shitty IMO because you gotta be LUCKY enough to catch someone in the air with these things and set up a juggle. I rarely use them...and if I do it's to gain ground in a hurry.

3. His super. It's stupid good now. All five hits of block damage, almost every single time. Only DeeJay was able to kick me out of it using his carnival kicks.

Now, Fei's biggest weakness is his short flame kick. You can't use it like you used to in st. His recovery is horrible and you can punish the crap out of him now. Not only that but it doesn't DIG anymore like Sagats tiger uppercut for some reason. I was fighting a really good sim player and he was sliding right into my flame kicks and not ONCE did I hit him whereas in ST I would scoop sim players off the floor like crazy! Why these nerfs were done to his flame kick I will never know.

IMHO I would be perfect if he had his rekka damage toned down and his old ST short flame kick back. I wll post again soon when I find out more stuff.

[humbag]

Crouching FP.

[ZeonTheUnborn]

I can't get around my friend's Akuma, Gief, or Blanka. He crouch blocks alot, and I can't get close to deliver a f MK. If I try to chicken wing, I get an anti air. I can CW him on wake up if I'm close enough, then I can play mix up with c.FP and weak CW or Throw if I weirded him out too much. But besides from that, I just need all around help. I tend to CW too much, and I don't know much about Fei Long's normals. I do know that I can poke with my Rekka, but besides from that, I'm horrible at defense, so I tend to go all out, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. So general help will be appreciated. I'll be on sometime around 5-7 pm central time.

[KrsJin]

I can't get around my friend's Akuma, Gief, or Blanka. He crouch blocks alot, and I can't get close to deliver a f MK. If I try to chicken wing, I get an anti air. I can CW him on wake up if I'm close enough, then I can play mix up with c.FP and weak CW or Throw if I weirded him out too much. But besides from that, I just need all around help. I tend to CW too much, and I don't know much about Fei Long's normals. I do know that I can poke with my Rekka, but besides from that, I'm horrible at defense, so I tend to go all out, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. So general help will be appreciated. I'll be on sometime around 5-7 pm central time.

I can relate to that situation and I'm not offering an end all be all approach to those types of playstyles but this is what has been helping me in that situation.

If I'm at a distance, I slowly close the gap with one jab rekka. The range seems really deceptive to people as it usually gets me in range of a fierce rekka if I'm patient enough and space just right. But yeah, I've been inching in using jab rekkas a lot to get into a zone or space that I feel more comfortable at and opens up the rest of Fei's options. Just jab rekka, wait, wait, jab rekka, then REKKA BARRAGE! lol

[skankin garbage]

I'm a day one Fei, so I'm not supposing this is a relatively new concept, but Fei has a pretty cool Rekka string on most characters: From as far as you can execute a Fierce Rekka, just do Fierce, Strong.

This is great for two reasons: It's a hit-confirm on its own, and it's very safe against most of the cast. If it's blocked, you're out of the range of almost every characters' normals. Otherwise, you have the time it takes to land both Rekkas to hit-confirm it and end with another Fierce.

There are some exceptions, though: You can't do this from max range against Honda, Bison, Sagat, and maybe Guile (I was just testing this five minutes ago, I can't believe I already forgot :/). However, if you do it slightly closer than max range, you still get the same result - it's quite a bit harder, though, due to these characters coincidentally having long-ranged normals.

There are a few people it doesn't work 100% on, either:

Blanka will still be able to land his slide kick.

Balrog can still hit you with S.Hp.

Vega will still be in range to hit you with just about everything.

I don't even think I need to mention that Dhalsim will still be in range, so it's kind of useless against him. A neat little shenanigan that's worth knowing, though, is that if he tries to tick you with his slide kicks, he'll still be well out of throw range. I wouldn't depend on anybody falling for that, though.

Anyways, this is a pretty big deal, in my opinion. Even on the characters who can still hit you (Vega and Dhalsim aside), this is really useful. It allows you to be completely safe from almost every counter-attack, and you can be aptly prepared for most attacks that CAN hit you from that range.

I expect this tactic to fall apart a little bit when considering special moves that move you forward, but even those don't put you at a real disadvantage. Overall, I'd say the reward outweighs the risk with this tactic.

[Monshou_no_Nazo]

Awesome post, Jumpsuit.

I am still pretty n00b, and I haven't played great players yet, but it seems like Chicken Wing makes for more of an overhead air-to-ground approach than an anti-air attack. I looked at the frame data for the short version and it looks like it could be used to go through pokes up close.

[Jumpsuit]

Well, I played again today for about 3 hours straight in ranked matches and I came across one match vs a really good ken player. Completely zoned my fei even with his new cw kick that goes through fireballs.

He would toss a fireball and I would try all sorts of different distances to get through it and he would simply walk up and sweep me for free. It was very frustrating. I will have to have someone practice with me to see just how tough it is to get in even with this new cw kick.

On a side note, ALL of the CW kicks are practically useless vs Gief. Even if you connect, you get OWNED with SPD's every single time.

[oldboy]

Well, I played again today for about 3 hours straight in ranked matches and I came across one match vs a really good ken player. Completely zoned my fei even with his new cw kick that goes through fireballs.

He would toss a fireball and I would try all sorts of different distances to get through it and he would simply walk up and sweep me for free. It was very frustrating. I will have to have someone practice with me to see just how tough it is to get in even with this new cw kick.

On a side note, ALL of the CW kicks are practically useless vs Gief. Even if you connect, you get OWNED with SPD's every single time.

Yeah, had to find that out myself against a really good Gief. :( I felt like I was just handing out free spds.

When you were fighting that Ken what did you do on jump in before he sweeped? I tend to throw out the air jab. That thing seems to beat alot of stuff it probably shouldn't.

Shotos are probably the opponents i feel most comfortable against with Fei for some reason. But I probably haven't fought one of the caliber you faced.

[eddymasta]

Well, I played again today for about 3 hours straight in ranked matches and I came across one match vs a really good ken player. Completely zoned my fei even with his new cw kick that goes through fireballs.

He would toss a fireball and I would try all sorts of different distances to get through it and he would simply walk up and sweep me for free. It was very frustrating. I will have to have someone practice with me to see just how tough it is to get in even with this new cw kick.

On a side note, ALL of the CW kicks are practically useless vs Gief. Even if you connect, you get OWNED with SPD's every single time.

I've had the same problems with guile when it comes to CW. you can only chicken wing from very specific distances now that its so easy to beat out :(

[skankin garbage]

Yeah, against a good fireballer, using the Chicken Wing to go through fireballs is pretty pointless - the trajectory is just too slow.

[AtTheGates]

He would toss a fireball and I would try all sorts of different distances to get through it and he would simply walk up and sweep me for free. It was very frustrating.


same thing happened to me while playing vs. a good dj, for him it's even easier, just walk forward, HK or slide. that's one of the reasons i wasn't too impressed with lk CW.

[Shinkuu Tatsumaki]

Is it not possible to combo in 3 Rekkas after a j.mk -> s.fierce?

[caliagent#3]

somehow i think sirlin completely forgot about the fei vs honda matchup

[RagingStormX]

Well, I played again today for about 3 hours straight in ranked matches and I came across one match vs a really good ken player. Completely zoned my fei even with his new cw kick that goes through fireballs.

He would toss a fireball and I would try all sorts of different distances to get through it and he would simply walk up and sweep me for free. It was very frustrating. I will have to have someone practice with me to see just how tough it is to get in even with this new cw kick.

On a side note, ALL of the CW kicks are practically useless vs Gief. Even if you connect, you get OWNED with SPD's every single time.

I knew this would happen, I'd figured it would go like a honda match. CW thru fireball, get swept. Rinse and repeat.

[blazeu25]

i played good kens. lost and won some. to me that match up u gota wait till he fuks up. ones he fuks up there gos 40-50% of his life with the combos i do. but im still having the hardest time play vs honada man. his charge literally just beats everything i have.i gota go vega just to win vs him.

[skankin garbage]

I'm not sure how much this helps, but Fei's S.Lk will beat the torpedos clean most of the time (actually, I've never been hit out of a S.Lk yet, but I'm not dumb enough to say EVERY time), and it's really good for beating the Handslaps, as long as it's not a meaty handslap.

[caliagent#3]

I'm not sure how much this helps, but Fei's S.Lk will beat the torpedos clean most of the time (actually, I've never been hit out of a S.Lk yet, but I'm not dumb enough to say EVERY time), and it's really good for beating the Handslaps, as long as it's not a meaty handslap.

jabs beat that stuff too, but that's not the issue. The problem is that fei really has no way of mounting an offense, Honda can just sit there and headbutt most of the round.

[UltraDavid]

If standing short and standing jab both beat both hands and headbutt, why does Fei need to mount an offense now?

[SunocO]

i played good kens. lost and won some. to me that match up u gota wait till he fuks up. ones he fuks up there gos 40-50% of his life with the combos i do. but im still having the hardest time play vs honada man. his charge literally just beats everything i have.i gota go vega just to win vs him.

haha that's exactly my problem with honda. this is my hardest matchup by far. it's funny cause i pick vega in this situation as well.

i added you on psn but never seem to be on at the same time to play against you.

quick question, do you guys use rekka's a lot? i feel like i either trade hits, they hit me out of it, or they block and get a free attack after.

[CWheezy]

If standing short and standing jab both beat both hands and headbutt, why does Fei need to mount an offense now?

Because turtling is lame, obviously.

Who cares about winning?

[caliagent#3]

If standing short and standing jab both beat both hands and headbutt, why does Fei need to mount an offense now?

Because he suffers from the same problems that cammy does vs honda.

[noskid313]

do you all believe they may possibly patch Fei??......from the responses to his changes so far he seems alittle weak : (

[iancofino]

Yeah, had to find that out myself against a really good Gief. :( I felt like I was just handing out free spds.

When you were fighting that Ken what did you do on jump in before he sweeped? I tend to throw out the air jab. That thing seems to beat alot of stuff it probably shouldn't.

Shotos are probably the opponents i feel most comfortable against with Fei for some reason. But I probably haven't fought one of the caliber you faced.

I played a bunch of matches against a pretty good Gief player, and found out about that CW deficiency myself. I think against Zangief you really have to drop the CW and use rekkakens to poke at him (they will put you out of the range of his SPD). I would poke him into a corner than just walk up to him and toss him when I saw him just blocking low. When he went to jump out I'd either CW or flame kick. I found out that you really never want to try to get him to stand up on a fierce... more painful SPDs.

[AtTheGates]

all you need against gief is c.hp, if he jumps HK, and an occasional flamekick and rekka. been like that since ST.

[PuFF]

I recently picked up Fei Long for HDR since I can finally do his CW. I have to say I like him a lot. I don't notice anything bad about his CW yet (since I didn't play him in ST).

I think that puts me at an advantage since I don't need to relearn the timing.

C.HP is godlike in my opinion. I CW in and then c.HP twice. If it connects it is a free dizzy pretty much. I have had a ton of success with it. If the opponent catches on, you do a lk.CW and continue on. I am sure against pros it wont work as well.

[DevilJin 01]

You can rekka blocked blanka balls, it's just strict timing and if you fuck up you get a blanka ball to the face.

Yeah as a Blanka player playing against a decent Fei earlier today...as long as the timing is right Blanka will get hit by FULL REKKA everytime after a Blanka ball on hit or block. Least that's the way it seemed. The few times I didn't get hit after hitting a Blanka ball all seemed due to the opponent not immediately reacting with Rekka. I was only able to stay safe after using a Blanka ball if the Fei player is caught off guard and their timing is off. I basically played a Blanka ball less Blanka in the matchup. Which wasn't terrible since Blanka's normals are still good in the matchup and if you throw him Blanka's bite always hurts big. Maybe you guys can add in more input but it's not like this matchup is gonna come up a whole lot yet online.

[Evo]

Hey guys, kind of a noob with this guy....so would anyone be willing to show me the ropes over msn possibly?

[blitzfu]

Yeah as a Blanka player playing against a decent Fei earlier today...as long as the timing is right Blanka will get hit by FULL REKKA everytime after a Blanka ball on hit or block. Least that's the way it seemed. The few times I didn't get hit after hitting a Blanka ball all seemed due to the opponent not immediately reacting with Rekka. I was only able to stay safe after using a Blanka ball if the Fei player is caught off guard and their timing is off. I basically played a Blanka ball less Blanka in the matchup. Which wasn't terrible since Blanka's normals are still good in the matchup and if you throw him Blanka's bite always hurts big. Maybe you guys can add in more input but it's not like this matchup is gonna come up a whole lot yet online.

I've played as Fei against good Blankas and as Blanka against good Feis, and I'm almost 100% sure that Blanka's Roll can be countered by full Rekka everytime on hit or block. Might possibly only be the Fierce Roll though, cuz I haven't tried Jab or Strong Roll.

[Redmyst]

This thread confirmed my suspicion on being able to hit Blanka after a blocked Blanka ball with a fierce Rekka. I am also sure that people here know that a blocked rekka = pain through blanka ball.

I really do like what they done with Fei Long in this mix of ST. He feel more complete to me now.

[ZeonTheUnborn]

MYST! You big bastard! I missed ya. You need to give me ya cell num.

Anyway, yeah, I'm having problems with CHun Li. I can't keep the bitch out. Everytime....walk up...throw...lighting kicks on wake up.

I flame kick the shit out her on wake up everytime though. But she still gets in and throws, wake up kicks.

[eddymasta]

man, i'm having such a hard time adapting to the new rekka timing and strings. I can never ever get the third one to come out, I always rush it like you're supposed to in ST

[Exarkun]

man, i'm having such a hard time adapting to the new rekka timing and strings. I can never ever get the third one to come out, I always rush it like you're supposed to in ST

Here are some safe rekka strings, could be done anywhere on the screen.

Jab, Jab, C. jab, Jab Rekka, Strong Rekka, Jab Rekka- Safe from sweep and throw range.

Cross over Foward, S. Jab, S. Jab, C. Jab, Jab, Rekka, Strong Rekka, Jab Rekka- Safe from sweep and throw.

Cross over foward, C. Jab, S. Fierce- This takes some practice to time the fierce after the jab, count in seconds if you must to get adjusted.

Cross over foward, C. Jab, s. Fierce- Safe from throw and sweeps.

Cross over foward, C. Jab, S. Fierce Jab Rekka, Strong Rekka, Jab Rekka.- Safe from throw and sweeps.

Jump in foward, S. Strong, C. Strong- Safe from throws and sweeps.

Jump in Fierce, S. Jab, Strong Rekka, Strong Rekka, Jab Rekka- safe from throws and sweeps.

S, Jab, C. Jab, Short Flame Kick. safe from sweeps.

[DevilJin 01]

This thread confirmed my suspicion on being able to hit Blanka after a blocked Blanka ball with a fierce Rekka. I am also sure that people here know that a blocked rekka = pain through blanka ball.

I really do like what they done with Fei Long in this mix of ST. He feel more complete to me now.

Yeah but a blocked rekka can't be so bad if you can just potentially rekka him right back after it hits?

[KING]

Yeah but a blocked rekka can't be so bad if you can just potentially rekka him right back after it hits?

...especially when the damage is usually 30% and up. I call that a nice trade!:woot:

[Redmyst]

Yeah but a blocked rekka can't be so bad if you can just potentially rekka him right back after it hits?

Ah this is true. The person I usually play against always punishes me when he uses Blanka. Is it me or is the deck stacked when using Fei against Blanka?

[Redmyst]

MYST! You big bastard! I missed ya. You need to give me ya cell num.

Anyway, yeah, I'm having problems with CHun Li. I can't keep the bitch out. Everytime....walk up...throw...lighting kicks on wake up.

I flame kick the shit out her on wake up everytime though. But she still gets in and throws, wake up kicks.

You should have no problems keeping the presure on chun or keeping her out. Just don't randomly throw out Chicken wings, mix up the rekkas, and most of all if you see the woman jump roast her ass. Fei beats out lots of Chun's stuff if I am not mistaken.

[MAGUS1234]

Meaty FP into FP xx rekka is nasty! I have had some problems vs Zangief and wondered what people do? Personally I like to look for meaty c.FP into FP rekka, it combo's and is hit comfirmable to the rest of the rekkas. I like to stop on the FP rekka most of the time to keep a good distance. Sometimes I do, c.fp,c.fp...wait, FP rekka and see if it hits or not, if not then stop and do a lk hotwing. I avoid using chicken wing unless its an anticipatory antiair so I can combo into another chickenwing then super, or just fk hotwing.

As for antiairs I have been pretty successful with lk,hotwing most of the time, s.fp and s.mk(I think) are good in situational moments.

Any other tips?

[UltraDavid]

Why are you doing close meaty attacks on Zangief, especially ones like crouching fierce that you have to do meaty super early to combo off of? Giefs are just gonna react to that and spd/super most of the time.

Just zone him out with your solid normals, not much need to get deep into his face.

[giantnine]

hey all... getting my fei on in HDR, and I need some practice! if you wanna add me on PSN, i'd appreciate it

PSN: giantnine

also, re: honda:

I've found lots of 'em fall for the ol' 'keep jumping til they headbutt and then j.mk, meaty fp/crossup c-wing' game. that and it seems like you can almost beat the headbutt by spamming s.sk.

game on!

[KrsJin]

What are the best/quickest ways you guys know of to dizzy opponents? I only really know of say, toward roundhouse into c.fierce. Are there other standard links/setups that wreck people into dizzies?

[Psychoprog]

Meaty c.fierce >> c.fierce seems to dizzy like, half the time.

[giantnine]

the f.rk -> c.fp is a good one. i've also gotten common dizzies off of chickenwing, f.rk and f.rk, f.rk (first is as a meaty mindgame). meaty fp -> fp or f.rk or c.fp works too.

[ChaiThai]

I have a lot of trouble with Bison matchups. It's okay if I can pin him down, but half the time if feels like I either can't catch him or reversal his strings. I end up eating a lot of scissor kicks on the startup of my moves. Any advice?

[Mr. Mamation]

I have a lot of trouble with Bison matchups. It's okay if I can pin him down, but half the time if feels like I either can't catch him or reversal his strings. I end up eating a lot of scissor kicks on the startup of my moves. Any advice?
Hey, Im having trouble with that match too! Stop beating on scrubs son. JK good games.

[ChaiThai]

Hey, Im having trouble with that match too! Stop beating on scrubs son. JK good games.Haha good games man. In all fairness I'm still learning Fei, and it becomes obvious in some of the execution such as failed rekka strings or reversal flame kicks. That's something only exp. will fix.

[Ryu1999]

They should have let the RH chicken wing have comboability since its the easiest to reverse if used in a trap, might as well give it some kind of utility

[AtTheGates]

I have a lot of trouble with Bison matchups. It's okay if I can pin him down, but half the time if feels like I either can't catch him or reversal his strings. I end up eating a lot of scissor kicks on the startup of my moves. Any advice?

bison was an equal matchup in ST, now it's horrible for fei since CW loop is gone.

[jabhadouken]

Because he suffers from the same problems that cammy does vs honda.

^^^^

I swear.

And she happens to be one of my other 2 mains.

Both she and Fei do really well against Shotos though.

But Honda is evil.

Fei is RTSD, not Stand Still, Snuff Shit.

[Shinkuu Tatsumaki]

Man, Short Chicken Wing is too godly, especially against Shotos. LOL. Started playing Fei when HD came out and here I thought you had to time the CWs and get over the fireballs. Life was made easier thanks to this find by people.

[MAGUS1234]

Short CW works so well vs dahlsim

[KrsJin]

Short CW works so well vs dahlsim

Really? The only Dhalsim I've played shuts it down without a problem lol.

[Ryu1999]

Short CW works so well vs dahlsim

Slides eat CW up for free, or far cr. strong/fierce from farther away

[pokken]

CW kicks lose to drills and slides now :) Fei is more Dhalsim's bitch than ever.

[MAGUS1234]

Ya, I guess thats true. I just had some good success vs non slide pokes/FB's to get me into that sweet spot.

[Redmyst]

CW kicks lose to drills and slides now :) Fei is more Dhalsim's bitch than ever.

LOL

I have a question. When is it good to use CW? I opt not to do it because it is largely unsafe. I know it sails over fireballs and can provide some nasty juggles. Helps me please.

[Desolation Mike]

LOL

I have a question. When is it good to use CW? I opt not to do it because it is largely unsafe. I know it sails over fireballs and can provide some nasty juggles. Helps me please.

I tend to CW whenever in range, in fact it's pretty much the backbone of my offense. Of course I'm a noob so take it as it is. I'd rather CW in than regularly jump in. If it misses I'll usually land close enough for a throw, or a sweep. Even though it has really low priority, it's odd movement usually catches people off guard, plus it tends to hit over top of crouching blockers. Also by CWing a lot I can set up the Rekkas easier as people tend to expect my jump in. It's important to switch up it's distances, and I've had it crossover once or twice but it seems like shenanigans. It juggles nicely as you've said, though I find when following it up with a flame kick it needs to be timed right, if the opponent is too high in the air you won't get much damage from it.

However it has plenty of drawbacks landing too close can get you thrown yourself, and it gets punished hard by DP type attacks. Hell, even a jumping fierce can disrupt it. So that's my take on it, but I'm pretty horrible, so chances are you had already realized all of these things.

[Nos99]

Is meaty low fierce into wrekkas harder in HD Remix?

Please say yes so I don't feel like an idiot for fucking it up all the time. :P

[Redmyst]

I tend to CW whenever in range, in fact it's pretty much the backbone of my offense. Of course I'm a noob so take it as it is. I'd rather CW in than regularly jump in. If it misses I'll usually land close enough for a throw, or a sweep. Even though it has really low priority, it's odd movement usually catches people off guard, plus it tends to hit over top of crouching blockers. Also by CWing a lot I can set up the Rekkas easier as people tend to expect my jump in. It's important to switch up it's distances, and I've had it crossover once or twice but it seems like shenanigans. It juggles nicely as you've said, though I find when following it up with a flame kick it needs to be timed right, if the opponent is too high in the air you won't get much damage from it.

However it has plenty of drawbacks landing too close can get you thrown yourself, and it gets punished hard by DP type attacks. Hell, even a jumping fierce can disrupt it. So that's my take on it, but I'm pretty horrible, so chances are you had already realized all of these things.

Thanks for the info dude.

[blitzfu]

Is meaty low fierce into wrekkas harder in HD Remix?

Please say yes so I don't feel like an idiot for fucking it up all the time. :P

Nope, they're easier as the input and timing window for the Rekkas is more forgiving in Remix than ST. I find that I have to do the Rekkas slower than ST though, not just after cr.Fierce but doing a full Rekka as well.

[MAGUS1234]

I think I found linking cfp into mp rekka works best

[Nos99]

I'll try the mp wrekkas..

Startup wasn't changed on them right? I hope not.. It's hard getting used to the new wrekkas, and staying safe. But spanking them for a whiff from half screen away is awesome. :D

[pr0k]

I have what may be a stupid question. I have looked through this thread, as well as the original Turbo's Fei thread.. and can't seem to find an answer.

I am just learning Fei and have been having problems especially with Ken. His jab SRK ruins me, and I can't really find something to punish whiffed trips or whiffed SRKs.

Am I missing something?

[deadfrog]

Is there an easy-mode way for characters without a DP to hit Fei out of the chicken wing? It seems to beat or trade everything I throw at it and, unless I'm playing a command-grabber, it feels unsettling having him land so close to me when I block it.

[Shirts]

CWs always lost to Sim's slides.

[Higher-Jin]

CW loses to a lot of air attacks, it even loses to regular hurricane kicks somehow. (you'd figure by the angle he comes at he'd actually win out) They can also bait it and sweep it.

I'm having a lot of problems with Dhalsim, personally. Specifically his long range s. mk. It beats chicken wing most of the time, and combined with his fireball it can be hell to get to him. Sometimes I psychic flame kick it, or duck it and advance with a rekka, but for the most part it's a pretty hard situation to be in.

Does it bother anyone else that Fei has a really hard time against most characters? I mean what are his "good" matchups?

[skankin garbage]

Well, let's see...he beats Blanka for sure (blocked balls are really unsafe against Fei), and he goes pretty even with uh, Cammy...It's not very hard to beat, uh...Thawk. And, he doesn't do half bad against Zangief. Oh, and depending on who you ask, Fei beats Chun-Li.

So, I guess, to answer your question, MAYBE Chun-Li, and no one else that matters, lol. Although, to be fair, his matchups are mostly better now. IMO the only matches that are just downright WTF brutal are Sagat and Guile. Sagat is even a bit easier now, but it still sure is really fucking hard.

If you want opinions from much better Fei-Long players, you can just look at this, though:

http://curryallergy.blogspot.com/2008/11/super-turbo-new-arcadia-diagram.html

[ChaiThai]

Lately I've been seeing a lot of players jump short at chicken wings. And they seem to beat it. I've pretty much given up on them for closing distance now, and only use them once I get them into a crouching mindset.

[KrsJin]

If you want opinions from much better Fei-Long players, you can just look at this, though:

http://curryallergy.blogspot.com/2008/11/super-turbo-new-arcadia-diagram.html

That tier listing isn't for HDR, though.

I'd say his worst matchup I've encountered is Honda. I pretty much feel he loses to most charge characters lol. I feel he excels at shotos. And I do agree that he gives Blanka trouble, which is good to have in his arsenal. That's my early impression of Fei.

[MAGUS1234]

honda, besides him you can fight any match with some savyness.

VS gief - s.lk beats all jump ins

[skankin garbage]

S.Lk beats a LOT of shit. It beats Blanka balls (though it's better to just block them) and most of his jump ins, and it beats Honda's torpedos and most of HIS jump-ins - and even his Hand slaps if he does it from far ranges.

[Higher-Jin]

That tier listing isn't for HDR, though.

I'd say his worst matchup I've encountered is Honda. I pretty much feel he loses to most charge characters lol. I feel he excels at shotos. And I do agree that he gives Blanka trouble, which is good to have in his arsenal. That's my early impression of Fei.

I don't think that's the case. Fei's standing hard punch can put a hurting on a randomly headbutting honda while also trading with hands at certain distances. (of course they can punish your recovery, but that's why you mix it up with c. hp) Honda is also nice and fat which makes him easy to cross up with j. mk and go into a rekka combo (I find c. lp, lp rekkas to be the safest and most reliable way to follow up the cross up and it still does 50% damage in total) He's pretty hard, but not his worst match I don't think.

I'd say his worst match is probably against Vega. Vega's jab has more range than fierce rekkas, and he can constantly harass with it while pushing Fei out for free. If you try to flame kick it and miss he can slide. If you try to jump in or chicken wing he can just flip kick. I think that's way harder than dealing with honda.

[noskid313]

i need help dealing with DJ and guile? any suggestions?

[shortshortsuper]

I don't think that's the case. Fei's standing hard punch can put a hurting on a randomly headbutting honda while also trading with hands at certain distances. (of course they can punish your recovery, but that's why you mix it up with c. hp) Honda is also nice and fat which makes him easy to cross up with j. mk and go into a rekka combo (I find c. lp, lp rekkas to be the safest and most reliable way to follow up the cross up and it still does 50% damage in total) He's pretty hard, but not his worst match I don't think.

I'd say his worst match is probably against Vega. Vega's jab has more range than fierce rekkas, and he can constantly harass with it while pushing Fei out for free. If you try to flame kick it and miss he can slide. If you try to jump in or chicken wing he can just flip kick. I think that's way harder than dealing with honda.

What are your anti-Vega off the wall shenanigans?

[Higher-Jin]

What are your anti-Vega off the wall shenanigans?

Well I try predict what he's going to do, and more or less what trajectory he'll probably take. Generally they want to go over your head and hit you from behind. In any case RH flame kick is really hard for them to deal with, but chicken wing can work sometimes too.

I also started using toward + RH more. It's really good and it's pretty under utilized. It advances you, has good range, decent priority, and really good dizzy. You can even link a sweep off of it which I didn't even realize until my friend pulled it off on me by mashing buttons. (Of course c. mp is easier to link, but then there's no knock down)

As for the vega crouching jab problem I'm probably going to try out c. mk and sweep as counters. I studied vega's hit box during the move and his vulnerable hit boxes move a whole lot forward when he does it. Specifically his knee is a good place to aim for when timing a counter strike. I know the computer is able to pull it off on me with some consistency, but I don't know if I'll be able to do the same when I'm being jabbed into oblivion.

[AtTheGates]

I also started using toward + RH more. It's really good and it's pretty under utilized. It advances you, has good range, decent priority, and really good dizzy. You can even link a sweep off of it which I didn't even realize until my friend pulled it off on me by mashing buttons. (Of course c. mp is easier to link, but then there's no knock down)

you can also link a c.hp, but it's hard. almost always dizzies.

[caliagent#3]

I don't think that's the case. Fei's standing hard punch can put a hurting on a randomly headbutting honda while also trading with hands at certain distances. (of course they can punish your recovery, but that's why you mix it up with c. hp) Honda is also nice and fat which makes him easy to cross up with j. mk and go into a rekka combo (I find c. lp, lp rekkas to be the safest and most reliable way to follow up the cross up and it still does 50% damage in total) He's pretty hard, but not his worst match I don't think.

I'd say his worst match is probably against Vega. Vega's jab has more range than fierce rekkas, and he can constantly harass with it while pushing Fei out for free. If you try to flame kick it and miss he can slide. If you try to jump in or chicken wing he can just flip kick. I think that's way harder than dealing with honda.

Jab headbutt and stored ochio raped fei in ST and still rapes him here in HDR.

[G.O.T]

I like Fei more in this one.

[Silks]

I've only played a couple times now. However, is it just me, or do Rekkas not "bounce" Fei back off the opp anymore? Like, yes, the range was increased in this version. But in original ST, a peak range fierce blocked rekka would push fei back just enough to be at perfect range to start the series again with a fierce rekka afterwards, which was great for people who flinched. Now, with the increased range, fei also seems to go through his opp's guard more :(

[keflex]

A couple questions:

Is there a way to do the flaming kick from crouching that won't be telegraphed?

When I've tried, Fei will stand up for a split second before performing the kick, which kind of defeats the purpose of being able to do the move from crouch (since I'm essentially standing right before it comes out).

Secondly, how do you guys handle Ryu/Ken/Akuma's hurricane kicks?

I was playing some guy yesterday and was winning each match pretty easily, until he started to spam Ryu's hurricane kicks. Then the tides began to turn and every round was an insanely tough fight. I eventually started using Rekkas to close the distance/trade and c.strong to duck under/punish recovery, but I wanted to know if there was a better way to handle it. Whenever I tried throwing after blocking, I would usually get thrown instead, and it seems like the horizontal range on short flaming kick makes it difficult to time properly; the risk to reward didn't seem worth it, either.

[AtTheGates]

A couple questions:

Is there a way to do the flaming kick from crouching that won't be telegraphed?

When I've tried, Fei will stand up for a split second before performing the kick, which kind of defeats the purpose of being able to do the move from crouch (since I'm essentially standing right before it comes out).

Secondly, how do you guys handle Ryu/Ken/Akuma's hurricane kicks?
.

1. kara cancel c.lp in flamekick ,that way you dont stand up
2. see point 1 ^^ wait in crouch block for the tatsu to cross you, then input c.lp in flamekick (the other way)

also, forget about throwing after tatsumaki, it doesnt have landing recovery.

[gridman]

I have what may be a stupid question. I have looked through this thread, as well as the original Turbo's Fei thread.. and can't seem to find an answer.

I am just learning Fei and have been having problems especially with Ken. His jab SRK ruins me, and I can't really find something to punish whiffed trips or whiffed SRKs.

Am I missing something?

fierce rekka all day. it'll make him think twice about doing random dps again

i dont like the fact that CW feels really nerfed. why did they have to take away one of the few things fei had like comboing off it.

i also am having a lot more trouble comboing meaty cl.fierce link cl.fierce x rekka.

he doesnt dizzy as fast in HDR. ive done xup mk cl.fierce rekka then as there getting up cl.fierce linked into cr.fierce and NO DIZZY, EVER. like WHAT. they usually have like a mp worth of health after this and no dizzy? yeaaah ok

[keflex]

1. kara cancel c.lp in flamekick ,that way you dont stand up
2. see point 1 ^^ wait in crouch block for the tatsu to cross you, then input c.lp in flamekick (the other way)

also, forget about throwing after tatsumaki, it doesnt have landing recovery.

Great, thanks for the advice. Practiced it a couple times in training mode and seems to work well. Now I just need to do it in a match.

Alright, time for another question: Last night, I was playing against Balrog, and at least once per match he'd get me into the headbutt throw trap (whiff headbutt, headbutt throw, during my recovery crossover, cr. jab tick, headbutt throw). I had no idea how to get out of it. I tried: reversal throwing, but would usually eat the jab tick or lose out to headbutt throw priority; I also tried flame kick, but the timing seems really tight and Fei would just end up crouch blocking anyway. Although I don't really play that many boxers, it would be nice to know for when I do run against one.

[Goryus]

Fei's throw range is tied for shortest in the game, so you can't counter his headbutt throw with another throw if he times it right. Best answer is negative edge flame kick.

[AtTheGates]

I was playing against Balrog, and at least once per match he'd get me into the headbutt throw trap (whiff headbutt, headbutt throw, during my recovery crossover, cr. jab tick, headbutt throw). I had no idea how to get out of it. I tried: reversal throwing, but would usually eat the jab tick or lose out to headbutt throw priority; I also tried flame kick, but the timing seems really tight and Fei would just end up crouch blocking anyway. Although I don't really play that many boxers, it would be nice to know for when I do run against one.

i don't have specific numbers on throw ranges, but if boxer has perfect spacing you cannot get out at all except with a reversal (either flamekick or super, chickenwing is unfortunately throwable).

if you are 100% sure he will throw you, just drum the buttons to increase your chances for a reversal. now that all hits of feis flamekick knock down you don't have to worry about hitting him with the tip of a MK or HK flamekick.

[Higher-Jin]

That's pretty lame. I thought they shortened his range and yet he still has more than Fei!
=(

[humbag]

for some reason close s.mp, c.lp, super is really easy compared to c.lk and c.mk into super.

At least for me anyway.

[Higher-Jin]

How are you guys dealing with bison? I can't seem to find a good counter for scissor kicks.

[keflex]

How are you guys dealing with bison? I can't seem to find a good counter for scissor kicks.

From what I've experienced, Rekkas and Flaming kicks usually trade, although I'm not 100% on this. I'll test against a friend of mine who has a good Bison.

[MAGUS1234]

How are you guys dealing with bison? I can't seem to find a good counter for scissor kicks.

Walk forward FP

[Amp]

Okay so I'm chugging along in Ranked, and all I do is spam Roundhouse chicken wing like a scrub.

I KNOW in the back of my mind that spamming chicken wing will get me stuffed like a Thanksgiving turkey against any good player (hence "like a scrub"), but I've done it so much it's become a habit, and, really? It's still working for me, I win consistently with this strategy.

Would it be better for me to make the effort to break the habit now? Or wait until I start losing?

[tokoreawithlove]

Walk forward FP

Shhh I don't want them figuring that out!

[Jumpsuit]

Shhh I don't want them figuring that out!

Yeah...and eat standing RH kicks in the process?

Bison is probably Fei's worst match in ST HD besides Vega(claw) and Akuma.

[Weasel]

Bison is probably Fei's worst match in ST HD besides Vega(claw) and Akuma.

Do you really think those are worse then Honda? I just feel powerless anytime I face him...

[Vance]

Do you really think those are worse then Honda? I just feel powerless anytime I face him...

Speaking of which, what are some good answers for Fei against Honda's c.strong, threatening headbutt? I haven't experimented it much because I haven't played many Hondas online but right now I'm thinking f+forward or chicken wings might clear it.

[xstancex]

Speaking of which, what are some good answers for Fei against Honda's c.strong, threatening headbutt? I haven't experimented it much because I haven't played many Hondas online but right now I'm thinking f+forward or chicken wings might clear it.

From my experience, most of Fei's moves and normals will stuff Honda's headbutt but it will require you to actually predict what the Honda player is going to do.

From my experience, Fei's rekkas either trade hits or gets stuffed by the headbutt and the rekka kicks only stuff the headbutt during fei's 2nd-3rd hit animation sequence while Honda is already in the air.

Walking far fierce "handshake" seems okay. Cr. fierce + cr. fierce seems to be okay but stored Ochio throw is real threat to Fei therefore, it's a huge risk to do, which also means tick throws are a huge risk.

Overall, it means you'll be pretty much playing "physic" against a Honda player.

After playing HD remix for a good amount of time, I believe fei's tier ranking hasn't changed at all. I believe I can understand the changes made to fei due to one particular matchup, which is M. Bison "Dictator". In original ST, once fei gets dictator into the rekka kick trap, it's pretty much impossible for dictator to get out(since he's the only char in the game who doesn't have an anti-air). If dictator tries to do jump mp or any moves, he'll get stuffed, unlike Zangief who has the lariat which can stuff the rekka kicks.

[Ouroborus]

Fei's throw range is tied for shortest in the game, so you can't counter his headbutt throw with another throw if he times it right. Best answer is negative edge flame kick.

his throw range may be short but his walk speed makes up for it.

[isurus]

You're thinking of stored Ochio which has been removed from Remix.



I'd say you're wrong on this one. I met a guy last night and we were playing locally. He was storing his Ochio's and they worked many times.

Also try using Short when jumping in. It should beat his headbutt most of the time.

[UltraDavid]

Stored ochio is still in this game.

[isurus]

I have what may be a stupid question. I have looked through this thread, as well as the original Turbo's Fei thread.. and can't seem to find an answer.

I am just learning Fei and have been having problems especially with Ken. His jab SRK ruins me, and I can't really find something to punish whiffed trips or whiffed SRKs.

Am I missing something?

Ken seems to have much faster recovery from whiffed SRK and Hurricanes (compared to Ryu and Akuma). I just try to hit him well before he hits the ground, which unfortunately doesn't get me any combos. At least it knocks Ken down.

[isurus]

S.Lk beats a LOT of shit. It beats Blanka balls (though it's better to just block them) and most of his jump ins, and it beats Honda's torpedos and most of HIS jump-ins - and even his Hand slaps if he does it from far ranges.

After I block a ball, what should I perform? 3 rekkas or is it possible to do a jump-in combo?

[Jumpsuit]

Do you really think those are worse then Honda? I just feel powerless anytime I face him...

Yes. Fighting Bison is like fighting a superman version of Honda. I'd take a Honda match over Bison ANY day of the week. Standing RH, scissor kicks, psycho crushers, insane crossups...all shut fei down big time. You can't even do low fierce meaty attacks against him because they are useless...he can block them standing up just like Balrog.

Well, Fei Long vs Honda can be very tough. If you're playing vs a typical Honda you can get away with a few wins by spamming st.Fierce, low fierce...maybe bait them with a few flame kicks. But it's all guessing. In most cases Honda players LOVE to rush down Fei.

I always go for the first hit then run...run run run! If you see that their reversals and defense is sloppy then by all means go for the rush down but a good Honda player knows they can turtle their asses off and basically let Fei run into their moves.

Standing short kick is a better counter for the flying headbutt than jab. Only try to flame kick counter headbutts if you've got energy to spare and doing it close range..

The good thing now in STHD is that rekkas(if connected)can actually hurt honda whereas before in ST you had to be REALLY close to connect all 3 hits.

Like someone else mentioned, it's all psychic when fighting vs Honda. You gotta be lucky and on the money with your moves otherwise it's like throwing spit wads at a tank....but you can get lucky with a few sticky bombs :wgrin:



Also try using Short when jumping in. It should beat his headbutt most of the time.

No offense..
That's bad advice...never jump in on Honda unless it's a "safe jump" because his headbutt eats everything Fei can throw out in a jump in. Even if you safe jump you gotta pray that the ochio throw or regular throw doesn't get you first. Yeah, you can safe jump and go straight into flame kick or super but if he blocks you are SCREWED.


his throw range may be short but his walk speed makes up for it.

His throw range is short? I always thought it was the same as the shotos at the very least. IMO Sagat, Vega and DeeJay felt like they had the shortest ranges.



Ken seems to have much faster recovery from whiffed SRK and Hurricanes (compared to Ryu and Akuma). I just try to hit him well before he hits the ground, which unfortunately doesn't get me any combos. At least it knocks Ken down.

Ken players LOVE to double uppercut if they whiff the first one. The idea is to time your rekkas with ken's uppercuts...execute the rekkas when ken is full extended in his jab dp. You can land all 3 hits of the rekka punches. Personally I like to walk up wait for them to miss a dp and just do stand fierce into rekkas. I rarely use pokes to counter missed jab dp's because if you're gonna go for a hit and risk getting smacked by a dp then you may as well go for a poke that combos(rekkas).


In original ST, once fei gets dictator into the rekka kick trap, it's pretty much impossible for dictator to get out(since he's the only char in the game who doesn't have an anti-air). If dictator tries to do jump mp or any moves, he'll get stuffed, unlike Zangief who has the lariat which can stuff the rekka kicks.

2 things. Dic can get out by doing jump away mp. It trades and breaks the loop. The other thing is Fei can only do the loop 2-3 times max before he has to walk up to be able to combo off of his standing fierce or jabs. Hawk can also break the loop.


what are some good answers for Fei against Honda's c.strong, threatening headbutt? I haven't experimented it much because I haven't played many Hondas online but right now I'm thinking f+forward or chicken wings might clear it.

To counter crouching strong, use Standing Fierce. Just shake hands with the fat ass and that will teach him to keep his hands to himself. Stand fierce is THE best attack you can use at close range because it stuffs almost all of hondas attacks and at the very least trades with his headbutt...it also gives great dizzy points.

As for his headbutts...from a distance counter with stand short, or jab. Trying to be fancy and psychic with flame kicks to counter the headbutt will only get you killed faster so I wouldn't advise is.

Fei's hopping fwd kick gets stuff by hondas headbutt. It's good for wake up games vs honda if he's afraid of doing headbutt reversals or ochios but its VERY risky. Even if the fwd kick connects, all he has to do is piano the ochio throw and you're smacked down. Only do the hopping fwd kick from max distance so he can't throw you.

And try not to use too many cw kicks vs Honda. It's like pissin in the wind when you use that move vs Honda, Gief, Akuma, Ryu, Ken, Guile....pretty much everyone except chun li.

[jchensor]

And try not to use too many cw kicks vs Honda. It's like pissin in the wind when you use that move vs Honda, Gief, Akuma, Ryu, Ken, Guile....pretty much everyone except chun li.

Hey, Jesse...

I was wondering about this last comment. I've found the Short Chicken Wing to be an AWESOME weapon, and it's interesting to me that you say that it's actually mostly useless against everyone. I'm curious as to why. I usually use the Short one and try to nick them with the end so I'm safe after they get hit or Block... I almost never get thrown afterwards (if it's not Gief or Hawk or Honda). What's the main danger of actually doing the move?

- James

[AtTheGates]

In original ST, once fei gets dictator into the rekka kick trap, it's pretty much impossible for dictator to get out(since he's the only char in the game who doesn't have an anti-air). If dictator tries to do jump mp or any moves, he'll get stuffed, unlike Zangief who has the lariat which can stuff the rekka kicks.

nope, he can get out with a very early forward j.lp, which is really hard and totally skewed towards fei when looking at risk reward. STILL that matchup was considered to be a 5-5 in ST. dic is a horrible matchup now for fei.

[Aqua Snake]

Wow this is stupid.

On a crouching Blanka, lp and mk Chicken Wing misses him about 70% of the time. The only one to hit consistenly is hk Chicken Wing. So in a corner, use that instead.

His j.hk doesn't hit him either.

His Chicken Wings have 14 frames of invulnerable startup. Did they have this in the original too?

[caliagent#3]

Wow this is stupid.

On a crouching Blanka, lp and mk Chicken Wing misses him about 70% of the time. The only one to hit consistenly is hk Chicken Wing. So in a corner, use that instead.

His j.hk doesn't hit him either.

His Chicken Wings have 14 frames of invulnerable startup. Did they have this in the original too?


You don't really need CW vs blanka. C.fierce, j.jab and rekkas kill him pretty handily if he's sloppy.

about the honda and bison matchup, I'd rather face a really good bison than a really good honda. At least bison has to move in to hit you, but honda can just sit there holding charge and ochio. It's impossible to break a patient honda's defense. The match is like 95% guessing, with the other 5% coming in after you get the lead and can kinda bait him into doing what you want.

[Xx Thomahawk xX]

im a good fei player and i had a big problem with headbut hondas.

I jus stand still and take the chipdamage but dish out some rekkas in return, he may get impatient and starts the buttcrush and with perfect timing a flame kick will end hondas reign. a close HP will also work too. it takes patience to beat a headbutt honda

and handslap whores are a breeze. jus jump in with your attack of choice i prefer the jab or MK then a flame kick, and if they block it, next time u go for the chicken wings they will be blocking so walk up and throw them, they wont see it coming. (this goes for alot of other characters too.

secret honda tip: handslap hondas cant block for shit so chicken wings followed by s.flame kicks will usually mutulate handslapers (at least the ones i played and i played alot) (shh keep this between us fei players lol)

[KrsJin]

^You can't punish or even really apply pressure with rekkas off of a blocked headbutt, though. In-fact, it's fairly risky to dish out rekkas after a blocked headbutt.

[Xx Thomahawk xX]

^You can't punish or even really apply pressure with rekkas off of a blocked headbutt, though. In-fact, it's fairly risky to dish out rekkas after a blocked headbutt.


It is risky cus u can get grabbed between rekkas if u do them wrong but im careful with that but. its all about patience and timing. i dont win them all but this stategy can work against a good amount of hondas. Fei is a high risk high reward character.

[Xx Thomahawk xX]

i need help dealing with DJ and guile? any suggestions?

Ive got just the cure for sonic-somersault guiles (same applies for Deejay)
this is my little secret im passing on so dont tell nobody.(shhhhhh, fei players only)

this is what guile players dont want u to know (but i know lol)

1.When there moving back theres a 95%-100% chance a sonic booms coming right.
2.When there crouching theres a 95%-100% chance a somersault's coming riiight.

So heres da deal.
fei longs worst enemy in this matchup is the somersault so you cant jump in wreckesly or youll get kicked out the sky and if u move foward thell move back and sonic boom all day. so be patient feel them out and recognize then there in sonic boom mode or somersault mode. is pretty easy when u played enough guiles to know.
so when hes moving back and sonic booming its cool to chickin wing or jump in for some damage and when close keep the offense, dont let him breathe when up close. watch out tho most guiles sweep alot.

Now heres my secret. when there crouching for a long time they have a somersault ready for you, so rekkas wont work, short chickin wings are 50-50 its risky, and jumping in on a crouching guile is out of the question. so heres what you do.
Step 1- Simply WALK UP to a CROUCHING GUILE. You see most guiles are expecting u to jump in so they can kick u out of the sky but just waling up to them will trick them into somersaulting and while they took the bait and missed it he's wide open for a close HP or a Burning Flame kick or chicken wings followed by a flame kick for a juggle.

And heres the killer part.
Step 2- when u knock them down and they get up they will try a somersault on wakeup. especially if youre close. same concept applies. dont jump in on a downed guile. just walk up and wait for the wakeup somersault block it, or be in just the right distance so he'll miss and punish again. Gotta love it.

WAIT THERES MORE killer shit lol. When the first two stepes apply they can become used to this strategy and heres what there gonna do. there gonna crouch block more and not somersault because you got them scared to somersault. so heres what u do.

Step 3- WALK UP to the guile player again (most guiles crouch block when blocking) and see if he's still gonna somersault. if hes hesitant to somersault and remaing still then the match is over, youve got him right where you want him. When he's in this state, WALK UP EVEN CLOSER AND GRAB HIM, or you can go for the short chicken wing with a now 85-15% chance of it connecting with little risk or a F-Mk fot the overhead kick then grab or flame kick. but careful when doing the overhead kick watch for a somersault again. if theres no somersault grab him again. and keep the offense with flame kicks and short chicken wings and rekkas and this will shut alot of guile players down. Patience is virtue in this one.

Hope this helps. Good luck. Now go unleash your Inner Dragon!!!

[Aqua Snake]

Ive got just the cure for sonic-somersault guiles (same applies for Deejay)
this is my little secret im passing on so dont tell nobody.(shhhhhh, fei players only)

this is what guile players dont want u to know (but i know lol)

1.When there moving back theres a 95%-100% chance a sonic booms coming right.
2.When there crouching theres a 95%-100% chance a somersault's coming riiight.

So heres da deal.
fei longs worst enemy in this matchup is the somersault so you cant jump in wreckesly or youll get kicked out the sky and if u move foward thell move back and sonic boom all day. so be patient feel them out and recognize then there in sonic boom mode or somersault mode. is pretty easy when u played enough guiles to know.
so when hes moving back and sonic booming its cool to chickin wing or jump in for some damage and when close keep the offense, dont let him breathe when up close. watch out tho most guiles sweep alot.

Now heres my secret. when there crouching for a long time they have a somersault ready for you, so rekkas wont work, short chickin wings are 50-50 its risky, and jumping in on a crouching guile is out of the question. so heres what you do.
Step 1- Simply WALK UP to a CROUCHING GUILE. You see most guiles are expecting u to jump in so they can kick u out of the sky but just waling up to them will trick them into somersaulting and while they took the bait and missed it he's wide open for a close HP or a Burning Flame kick or chicken wings followed by a flame kick for a juggle.

And heres the killer part.
Step 2- when u knock them down and they get up they will try a somersault on wakeup. especially if youre close. same concept applies. dont jump in on a downed guile. just walk up and wait for the wakeup somersault block it, or be in just the right distance so he'll miss and punish again. Gotta love it.

WAIT THERES MORE killer shit lol. When the first two stepes apply they can become used to this strategy and heres what there gonna do. there gonna crouch block more and not somersault because you got them scared to somersault. so heres what u do.

Step 3- WALK UP to the guile player again (most guiles crouch block when blocking) and see if he's still gonna somersault. if hes hesitant to somersault and remaing still then the match is over, youve got him right where you want him. When he's in this state, WALK UP EVEN CLOSER AND GRAB HIM, or you can go for the short chicken wing with a now 85-15% chance of it connecting with little risk or a F-Mk fot the overhead kick then grab or flame kick. but careful when doing the overhead kick watch for a somersault again. if theres no somersault grab him again. and keep the offense with flame kicks and short chicken wings and rekkas and this will shut alot of guile players down. Patience is virtue in this one.

Hope this helps. Good luck. Now go unleash your Inner Dragon!!!

LOL.

I play Guiles who throw flash kicks and Sonic Booms from the crouching position.

Don't know what kind of Guiles your playing. :wonder:


To all Fei Long Players...

Many of you probably seen this Fei Long Tutorial video before. Just in case there are some who hasn't...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyVgyNRhQOE

Even if it's Old school ST, the same still applies somewhat.

[Xx Thomahawk xX]

LOL.

I play Guiles who throw flash kicks and Sonic Booms from the crouching position.

Don't know what kind of Guiles your playing. :wonder:


To all Fei Long Players...

Many of you probably seen this Fei Long Tutorial video before. Just in case there are some who hasn't...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyVgyNRhQOE

Even if it's Old school ST, the same still applies somewhat.


hmmmm nice video i didnt know u can cross up after the HP anti air (though i never learned how to cross up yet), i learned a few helpful things. but anyway i was jus giving a stretegy of certain guile players. i never said i was perfect against them. but i did beat alot of guiles even today with this strategy.

but as far as the video goes does this concept apply only for classic mode or can they apply to both classic and HD Remix

[HAMMER FRENZY]

I am pretty sure those CW set ups no longer work due to the extra recovery frames on the CW. Maybe Sirlin should have had the extra recovery on the Short version of CW and had the block loop/combo allowing stuff on the Forward/Roundhouse CW. That way the Fei player would have to choose to use the Short CW in a defensive/ semi- offensive safe advancing way, and the Forward/Roundhouse version in an strictly offensive manner, sans the invincibility but with all the properties that make the high risk of it worth it in the ability to combo Standing Fierce or cr. Jab X 3 -> Rekka on hit, or loop on block.

[xstancex]

hmmmm nice video i didnt know u can cross up after the HP anti air (though i never learned how to cross up yet), i learned a few helpful things. but anyway i was jus giving a stretegy of certain guile players. i never said i was perfect against them. but i did beat alot of guiles even today with this strategy.

but as far as the video goes does this concept apply only for classic mode or can they apply to both classic and HD Remix

Some of them can apply to HD remix, the only things that won't apply are the rekka kick combos.

I don't know if this was lag but I was playing a good zangief today and notice that he kept SPDing me out of mid flame kick animation. Man, gief owns at close distances

[Xx Thomahawk xX]

Some of them can apply to HD remix, the only things that won't apply are the rekka kick combos.

I don't know if this was lag but I was playing a good zangief today and notice that he kept SPDing me out of mid flame kick animation. Man, gief owns at close distances

that cross up trick from the video wont work in HD remix either

[Xx Thomahawk xX]

I do need help with zangeif players tho are there any certain rekka patterns or keep awaw pokes i can use to prevent being thrown evry time i get close

[Aqua Snake]

The meaty s.hp on wakeup still works like a charm. Prevents the opponent from doing a Reversal attack on you.

[Jizzon]

I am pretty sure those CW set ups no longer work due to the extra recovery frames on the CW. Maybe Sirlin should have had the extra recovery on the Short version of CW and had the block loop/combo allowing stuff on the Forward/Roundhouse CW. That way the Fei player would have to choose to use the Short CW in a defensive/ semi- offensive safe advancing way, and the Forward/Roundhouse version in an strictly offensive manner, sans the invincibility but with all the properties that make the high risk of it worth it in the ability to combo Standing Fierce or cr. Jab X 3 -> Rekka on hit, or loop on block.

This is brilliant. It would be a nice toolbox to have, analogous to Ken's SRK pros and cons. Nothing broken at all...a best of both worlds situation between ST and Remix Fei that would be more powerful overall, yet balanced and fun. I really miss being able to keep such steady pressure with Fei. I love playing him, but he really feels like the bottom of the barrel in this version of the game. If only they'd patch such a simple yet effective fix in, alas.

[R-Jive]

The meaty s.hp on wakeup still works like a charm. Prevents the opponent from doing a Reversal attack on you.

It doesn't prevent it, a perfectly timed reversal will still beat it.

[Xx Thomahawk xX]

The meaty s.hp on wakeup still works like a charm. Prevents the opponent from doing a Reversal attack on you.

wont that only stop reversal attacks, can it stop the reversal 360 throw too. or do you have to sweep to prevent reversal throws. thats my main problem with zangeif i always get thrown on wakup. its mad annoying.

[isurus]

will safejumping work? that is a technique i've just learned about, but havent been able to put into practice yet.

[KING]

*snip*

...looks at join date.


my inner-prejudice is STRONG!

*shakes head*

[Aqua Snake]

It doesn't prevent it, a perfectly timed reversal will still beat it.

Reeeeeeeeealy?

Are you hitting them at the very end of the move? It does require some strict timing. Not insulting your intelligence or anything.

I would normally play pretty good players who would reverse attack me if I fuked up the timing, but never did if I timed it right.

I'll look into it some more though. I'd like to make sure.

[Higher-Jin]

You don't really need CW vs blanka. C.fierce, j.jab and rekkas kill him pretty handily if he's sloppy.

about the honda and bison matchup, I'd rather face a really good bison than a really good honda. At least bison has to move in to hit you, but honda can just sit there holding charge and ochio. It's impossible to break a patient honda's defense. The match is like 95% guessing, with the other 5% coming in after you get the lead and can kinda bait him into doing what you want.

Caliagent. What is your view on Fei Long's ranking atm? Personally, I think he may very well end up being the worst character in the game. Regardless, I enjoy playing him and I will probably continue to work on him as I pick up characters like Honda and Guile.

Anyways, there are some Fei Long tactics I haven't seen in this thread. I will list them in this post. These will mainly help beginners:

- Negative edge LK hot foot. As Sirlin points out in his ST video series the motion ends in down-back, so you can get a free attempt at the flame kick. Just hold down LK, do the reverse DP motion, and let go of LK. If you did it right it should come out, and if not you will most likely be crouch blocking.

- Meaty c. lk (link) c. lp -> rekka series. I don't use this much because of the difficulty in the timing and the point blank range you have to be in. However, it's a nice option when your opponent always blocks high.

- Point blank meaty crouching fierce with a number of great follow ups such as:
A. Sweep. Great dizzy damage and a knock down. By far my favorite when I pull off the crouching fierce at point blank range.

B. Another crouching fierce. Great dizzy damage, but no knock down. Can be done as a follow up to a meaty crouching fierce from further away.

C. Crouching middle punch. Can be done from max range and is the most lenient to time out of just about all these options.

D. Light or Medium punch Rekka. You can hit it if you time the meaty fierce right. Obvious advantage is major damage if it connects and chip damage if it is blocked.

E. Overhead. Works really well, though if you end up too close you might get hit back. Try to flame kick.

F. Throw. This is better done off a standing fierce meaty.

G. Super. Can't seem to link it off a crouching fierce, but does good chip damage and has advantages over just throwing it out by itself.

As for the timing of the crouching fierce I find it is extremely easy to time if you do it when you see the opponent start his stand up animation.

- Use his forward + RH. It has great dizzy potential and combos into a sweep. Usually a standing fierce and forward + RH -> Sweep combo is enough to dizzy everyone. It's also great for advancing, although I am partial to MP Rekka because of the meter it gives.

- Against Zangief lariat I have had success by doing a light punch rekka out of range followed by a hard punch rekka (second punch). If it connects you can of course do the third and final hit for a knock down and some nice damage.

- Against Ryu fireball shenanigans walking forward and blocking on reaction seems to work best. LK chicken wing seems to get swept on reaction, and Fei's jump is HORRENDOUS. (Note: This is the chief reason why I'm learning Honda. His tools against fireballs are so much better) When they get to the corner they will probably try to hurricane kick their way out. This is where things get tricky. I suggest RH flame kick to knock them back into the corner.

- Against Vega (Claw) I've been having a lot of success against wall dives by using neutral jump middle kick. It has a great hit box, and when they switch up to counter it I find RH flame kick works quite well too. Against his more generic pokes crouching fierce gives him a lot of problems from the right ranges. Don't just blindly rekka him, make him afraid of the crouching fierce first.

- Against Honda I rely a lot on Standing Fierce and Standing Light Kick to stop his headbutt. You can do standing light kick on reaction, however standing fierce is too fucking slow. Don't even bother with meaty set ups against a good Honda since you will get stored Ochio'd to death. It really is a tough match. You can try to chip him with rekkas, but he'll probably respond with HHS. You could flame kick his HHS, but if you guess wrong you will likely eat a fierce headbutt to the face. All you can really do is try to play footsies. Also pray.

- Against Deejay.... god what a whore. He will run away from you the whole match. Walk back -> max out will be hard to get around. If you jump over, trip guard slide will beat just about all of fei's air attacks even when it looks like it shouldn't. When you corner him don't you dare let him get out. About the only disadvantage Deejay has over other fireballers is that while he walks back he can't charge his up kicks. This means at certain ranges you can RH chicken wing without fear of an invincible anti air, although his normals are good anti airs in their own right and may trade or beat chicken wing. I'm pretty much at a loss to on what to do in this match.

- Against Chunli... very similar to Deejay except you don't have to worry about a quick slide knocking you down when you try to walk up and block fireballs. However, you do have lightning legs, jumping short, walljump -> stomp, and all the bullshit that makes Chunli what she is to deal with in exchange. Really hard when the Chun knows what she's doing. She can pretty much walk back -> fireball until she gets into the corner then she can wall jump her way out while stomping or jumping short any of your attempts to stop her.

- Against Boxer I like using crouching fierce to stop low rushes. What sucks is that you can't really chip him with rekkas. Anything beyond the first gets punished for free by low rush, and in addition I think even the first rekka punch gets punished if you don't get your spacing right. You pretty much have to hit confirm the Rekkas and hope for the best.

- Against Dhalsim I try to crouching fierce or hot foot his limbs. His standing MK can be a pain to deal with, but if you crouch it you can advance as he retracts it. He can usually punish 2nd and 3rd rekka punches with his long range attacks, but test your opponent to see what they do.

Yeesh. I didn't mean to start talking about match ups, but yeah if any of you find use in the above feel free to use it.

[Aqua Snake]

The Honda advice I'll definately have to check out.

For the Ryu fireball shenanagians, I usually work my way into Fierce Rekka range to take advantage of the new range. Smack them before they can throw out another fireball.

I agree that Fei Long is the weakest in the game. The CW nerfs were brutal and unnessesary. If he can now get kicked out of his CW with simple jump attacks then what was the point of adding recovery frames for it?

To me it seems Fei Long didn't get as much play time as other characters during balance test. After all he's not the most popular, so whether or not they play tested him, it was probably players who don't main him anyway. So he got shafted IMO.

[Xx Thomahawk xX]

Caliagent. What is your view on Fei Long's ranking atm? Personally, I think he may very well end up being the worst character in the game. Regardless, I enjoy playing him and I will probably continue to work on him as I pick up characters like Honda and Guile.

Anyways, there are some Fei Long tactics I haven't seen in this thread. I will list them in this post. These will mainly help beginners:

- Negative edge LK hot foot. As Sirlin points out in his ST video series the motion ends in down-back, so you can get a free attempt at the flame kick. Just hold down LK, do the reverse DP motion, and let go of LK. If you did it right it should come out, and if not you will most likely be crouch blocking.

- Meaty c. lk (link) c. lp -> rekka series. I don't use this much because of the difficulty in the timing and the point blank range you have to be in. However, it's a nice option when your opponent always blocks high.

- Point blank meaty crouching fierce with a number of great follow ups such as:
A. Sweep. Great dizzy damage and a knock down. By far my favorite when I pull off the crouching fierce at point blank range.

B. Another crouching fierce. Great dizzy damage, but no knock down. Can be done as a follow up to a meaty crouching fierce from further away.

C. Crouching middle punch. Can be done from max range and is the most lenient to time out of just about all these options.

D. Light or Medium punch Rekka. You can hit it if you time the meaty fierce right. Obvious advantage is major damage if it connects and chip damage if it is blocked.

E. Overhead. Works really well, though if you end up too close you might get hit back. Try to flame kick.

F. Throw. This is better done off a standing fierce meaty.

G. Super. Can't seem to link it off a crouching fierce, but does good chip damage and has advantages over just throwing it out by itself.

As for the timing of the crouching fierce I find it is extremely easy to time if you do it when you see the opponent start his stand up animation.

- Use his forward + RH. It has great dizzy potential and combos into a sweep. Usually a standing fierce and forward + RH -> Sweep combo is enough to dizzy everyone. It's also great for advancing, although I am partial to MP Rekka because of the meter it gives.

- Against Zangief lariat I have had success by doing a light punch rekka out of range followed by a hard punch rekka (second punch). If it connects you can of course do the third and final hit for a knock down and some nice damage.

- Against Ryu fireball shenanigans walking forward and blocking on reaction seems to work best. LK chicken wing seems to get swept on reaction, and Fei's jump is HORRENDOUS. (Note: This is the chief reason why I'm learning Honda. His tools against fireballs are so much better) When they get to the corner they will probably try to hurricane kick their way out. This is where things get tricky. I suggest RH flame kick to knock them back into the corner.

- Against Vega (Claw) I've been having a lot of success against wall dives by using neutral jump middle kick. It has a great hit box, and when they switch up to counter it I find RH flame kick works quite well too. Against his more generic pokes crouching fierce gives him a lot of problems from the right ranges. Don't just blindly rekka him, make him afraid of the crouching fierce first.

- Against Honda I rely a lot on Standing Fierce and Standing Light Kick to stop his headbutt. You can do standing light kick on reaction, however standing fierce is too fucking slow. Don't even bother with meaty set ups against a good Honda since you will get stored Ochio'd to death. It really is a tough match. You can try to chip him with rekkas, but he'll probably respond with HHS. You could flame kick his HHS, but if you guess wrong you will likely eat a fierce headbutt to the face. All you can really do is try to play footsies. Also pray.

- Against Deejay.... god what a whore. He will run away from you the whole match. Walk back -> max out will be hard to get around. If you jump over, trip guard slide will beat just about all of fei's air attacks even when it looks like it shouldn't. When you corner him don't you dare let him get out. About the only disadvantage Deejay has over other fireballers is that while he walks back he can't charge his up kicks. This means at certain ranges you can RH chicken wing without fear of an invincible anti air, although his normals are good anti airs in their own right and may trade or beat chicken wing. I'm pretty much at a loss to on what to do in this match.

- Against Chunli... very similar to Deejay except you don't have to worry about a quick slide knocking you down when you try to walk up and block fireballs. However, you do have lightning legs, jumping short, walljump -> stomp, and all the bullshit that makes Chunli what she is to deal with in exchange. Really hard when the Chun knows what she's doing. She can pretty much walk back -> fireball until she gets into the corner then she can wall jump her way out while stomping or jumping short any of your attempts to stop her.

- Against Boxer I like using crouching fierce to stop low rushes. What sucks is that you can't really chip him with rekkas. Anything beyond the first gets punished for free by low rush, and in addition I think even the first rekka punch gets punished if you don't get your spacing right. You pretty much have to hit confirm the Rekkas and hope for the best.

- Against Dhalsim I try to crouching fierce or hot foot his limbs. His standing MK can be a pain to deal with, but if you crouch it you can advance as he retracts it. He can usually punish 2nd and 3rd rekka punches with his long range attacks, but test your opponent to see what they do.

Yeesh. I didn't mean to start talking about match ups, but yeah if any of you find use in the above feel free to use it.


This was actually helpful ima look into the zangeif post. but rekkas seem to work againt boxer. and with blanka after a blocked ball u get free rekkas, after this site taught me that i havent had a blanka problem since. thanx.

[Jumpsuit]

Hey, Jesse...

I was wondering about this last comment. I've found the Short Chicken Wing to be an AWESOME weapon, and it's interesting to me that you say that it's actually mostly useless against everyone. I'm curious as to why. I usually use the Short one and try to nick them with the end so I'm safe after they get hit or Block... I almost never get thrown afterwards (if it's not Gief or Hawk or Honda). What's the main danger of actually doing the move?

- James

Yes, it's a great tool against fighters like Chun and Guile if you use the s.cw kick at max range but against everyone else I've either gotten punished or pushed away. And for everyone else I've found that even tho I am theoretically safe because of the distance the cw kick puts between me and my opponenents, some of the better players will simply walk up and throw...and even wait for me to flame kick and counter. I have tried going for 2 cw kicks in a row but a simple low fierce counter by them makes for a shitty trade.

It does have it's uses in some matches but the risk/reward factor isn't all that great.



Ive got just the cure for sonic-somersault guiles (same applies for Deejay)
this is my little secret im passing on so dont tell nobody.(shhhhhh, fei players only)

this is what guile players dont want u to know (but i know lol) blahblahblahblahblah.....





You've never played Guile players like John Choi, Jason Nelson or Mike Watson have you? Those tactics are ok against novice Guile players but a good Guile player wouldn't even let fei come into striking distance. Vs Guile, Fei suffers BADLY from the E.Honda curse(free sweep attacks because of no trip guard).




Are you hitting them at the very end of the move? It does require some strict timing. Not insulting your intelligence or anything.

I would normally play pretty good players who would reverse attack me if I fuked up the timing, but never did if I timed it right.

I'll look into it some more though. I'd like to make sure.

Trust me, I practically invented that tactic with Fei Long here in the states and there are players who can reverse it EVERY single time. The reason it's so good online is because....well...you're playing online. It's practically a perfect lag tactic because the reversal timing has to be perfect. It's a huge risk to try and reverse it, but once I find a player that is reversing on point I am forced to change my strats like baiting them into reversals on purpose.

I go out of my way to do them both(meaty standing fierce, and walk up/wait-bait)to let them know that I can do either one at any time. Throw in the overhead mixups and it becomes option select for you....but beware...better experience players who are great at reading can reset the ground game and make you work for every inch of ground you cover to get near them again.

[Aqua Snake]

Trust me, I practically invented that tactic with Fei Long here in the states and there are players who can reverse it EVERY single time. The reason it's so good online is because....well...you're playing online. It's practically a perfect lag tactic because the reversal timing has to be perfect. It's a huge risk to try and reverse it, but once I find a player that is reversing on point I am forced to change my strats like baiting them into reversals on purpose.

I go out of my way to do them both(meaty standing fierce, and walk up/wait-bait)to let them know that I can do either one at any time. Throw in the overhead mixups and it becomes option select for you....but beware...better experience players who are great at reading can reset the ground game and make you work for every inch of ground you cover to get near them again.

Just played against a really good Ken player. He was reversing me every time I tried it. So yeah, I'm now a believer. I believe the reason no one is reversing it is because they're playing on controller where this Ken player seemed to be a stick user. I take it that the piano method is required to reverse on the first frame.

[Xx Thomahawk xX]

when guile does his double sweer i leared u can trade in between with a crouching Fierce punch. so after the first sweep is blocked attack with a crouching fierce and it will trade hits. it actually won me a match. And your attack is almost twice as strong.

[Jumpsuit]

Just played against a really good Ken player. He was reversing me every time I tried it. So yeah, I'm now a believer. I believe the reason no one is reversing it is because they're playing on controller where this Ken player seemed to be a stick user. I take it that the piano method is required to reverse on the first frame.

"piano-ing" is the new hot word. Similar to Maverick, Rogue, Folksy and Bailout.

Everyone and their mothers are talking about it online when I play. When they ask, "hey jumpsuit...do you you use the piano method when doing reversals?" I tell them "I don't use that artsy fartsy srk bullshit. I reverse the old fashioned way with a one button press...because I am just that good" :arazz::rofl:

[Vance]

To me it seems Fei Long didn't get as much play time as other characters during balance test. After all he's not the most popular, so whether or not they play tested him, it was probably players who don't main him anyway. So he got shafted IMO.

On the contrary, I bet Fei Long got shafted because Sirlin and other playtesters were using him too much. They kept finding nuance after nuance and they made over thirty revisions to Fei Long, for crying out loud! If they spent half the time they did tweaking Fei Long and spent that time instead fixing Akuma so he worked as designed, we may have had an HD Remix where Fei Long was top tier and even more fun to play with than he is now. I fantasize about that possibility every night.

[xstancex]

I would say that Fei's tier ranking remained pretty much the same or even a little lower.

I should prolly stop playing Fei and pick up another character. I hate having to play "psychic" against Guile, Honda, Vega, and dalshim.

[Aqua Snake]

On the contrary, I bet Fei Long got shafted because Sirlin and other playtesters were using him too much. They kept finding nuance after nuance and they made over thirty revisions to Fei Long, for crying out loud! If they spent half the time they did tweaking Fei Long and spent that time instead fixing Akuma so he worked as designed, we may have had an HD Remix where Fei Long was top tier and even more fun to play with than he is now. I fantasize about that possibility every night.

Now that I think about it, this makes even more sense. From reading Sirlin's blog, he wanted Honda to be able to get inside a turtle style Guile. Thus gave him the tools to do so. Fei Long however has even worse trouble with Honda now than Honda did with Guile in Vanilla ST. All the so call beefs he was suppose to recieve to get in still gets you punished by torpedos or handslaps. When you do finally get in all he has to do is throw out any torpedo and whether it's blocked or not, sends Honda flying back halfway across the screen to safety and you have to work hard to get in again.

I mean, WTF?

And what's worse is he nerfed his CW!

OMG...

If there is a small chance of there being a patch, here is my small request in making Fei Longs life a little better.

1) Remove the 5 frames from his short CW, but keep it as a worse air to air prioity. This will help Fei Long not get swept so damn easily after going through fireballs, and it won't be too much of a problem for the opponent if their trapped in a corner. Yes this was Sirlin's intention, but it's rediculous on how it's so damn easy to sweep! Apparently, the reason for the 5 frames of recovery was so that you couldn't loop meaty fp into CW. This only worked with Roundhouse CW, so why did the rest of the CW have to suffer?

2) Give the other two CW back their regular air to air priority they had in Vanilla ST, but keep the 5 frames of recovery on the roundhouse CW and remove the 5 frames of recovery from the forward CW. The distance between the short CW and forward CW is almost non existant, so because of that reason, there is no reason why the forward CW should suffer the nerfs. It can't go through fireballs anyway.

I don't think Fei long (Along with Cammy) had any players representing him like the rest of the cast did. So again, he got screwed.

[xstancex]

Now that I think about it, this makes even more sense. From reading Sirlin's blog, he wanted Honda to be able to get inside a turtle style Guile. Thus gave him the tools to do so. Fei Long however has even worse trouble with Honda now than Honda did with Guile in Vanilla ST. All the so call beefs he was suppose to recieve to get in still gets you punished by torpedos or handslaps. When you do finally get in all he has to do is throw out any torpedo and whether it's blocked or not, sends Honda flying back halfway across the screen to safety and you have to work hard to get in again.

I mean, WTF?

And what's worse is he nerfed his CW!

OMG...

If there is a small chance of there being a patch, here is my small request in making Fei Longs life a little better.

1) Remove the 5 frames from his short CW, but keep it as a worse air to air prioity. This will help Fei Long not get swept so damn easily after going through fireballs, and it won't be too much of a problem for the opponent if their trapped in a corner. Yes this was Sirlin's intention, but it's rediculous on how it's so damn easy to sweep! Apparently, the reason for the 5 frames of recovery was so that you couldn't loop meaty fp into CW. This only worked with Roundhouse CW, so why did the rest of the CW have to suffer?

2) Give the other two CW back their regular air to air priority they had in Vanilla ST, but keep the 5 frames of recovery on the roundhouse CW and remove the 5 frames of recovery from the forward CW. The distance between the short CW and forward CW is almost non existant, so because of that reason, there is no reason why the forward CW should suffer the nerfs. It can't go through fireballs anyway.

I don't think Fei long (Along with Cammy) had any players representing him like the rest of the cast did. So again, he got screwed.


I personally think that Cammy had more buffs than fei ever did. The only thing Fei received was the longer rekkas, everything else was nerfed. I agree, bring back Fei's original ST short Rekka kick with the "anti-fireball" property and without the 5 extra frame recovery. Short Rekka kick is so goddamn useless and not even viable going through fireballs. Heck, cammy's 3 variations of her knuckles are better options.

The juggle priority doesn't count as I believe it was just a replacement for the Rekka kick + super juggle which Fei had back in ST.

[Higher-Jin]

I'm going to talk to Sirlin about this issue.

[Higher-Jin]

I've talked to Sirlin and he has assured me that Fei Long is one of his main characters and that he's not a bad character. He was also kind enough to give me some pointers which I will gladly share with you now.



Honda is a bad match, you got that right for sure. I don't have any magic on that one. You have to stay back, mash jab to beat torpedo (or flame kick if you have good reactions) and sneak in block damage with rekkas, looking for a mistake on his part.

In other matches though, rekkas are deadly. You can poke with them to beat many attacks and mix up the distance and timing to really mess people up. When you hit, you get lots of damage and a knockdown. Follow up with crossup or with meaty fierce or whatever into death.

Getting in is a challenge so first priority is to never end up far vs Ken/Ryu. If you are far, you're screwed and need to do a really early (psychic) jump over a fireball to get close enough to threaten rekkas again. Best range is near the tip of chicken wing/flying kicks where you can hit their fireball hands on reaction eaisly. You are safe after that, and you can either do another chicken wing or flame kick.

After blocked chicken wing, mix up doing the move over and over...or flame kick. Some opponents keep trying to throw (keep doing chicken wing). Others keep trying to dp (just block and punish big time). Others try to block (throw them). Make that mixup count and wreck them as best you can.

Look for opportunties to land new juggle combo. I'm able to land it a fair amount in regular matches. The lower priority on chicken wing has no effect on the situation I'm talking about. It's only lower priority at the very start where the opponent completely knew you'd do it and early jump rh to hit you or something. But any time you tag them with the tip air-to-air, you get to juggle with flame kick (a lot easier than juggling with a slow-startup chicken wing a second time). Also, doing chicken wing early as a guess that they will jump usually hits also (the parts at middle and end of the move are really high priority) and again it leads to juggle combos.

If I had to give just one single piece of advice though, it's the rekkas. If you know how to use them (there's 9 of them total, remember) you can be safe while poking from crazily far away. I think job one of a new fei long player is to get a feel for all those rekka distances and master that.

--Sirlin


I've also asked him about Dee Jay and hopefully he will hit me back on that one. Basically, the main thing he emphasizes is mastery of the new Rekka ranges. Not only of the initial punch, but of the 2nd and 3rd punches as well. This is actually rings quite true with me because I notice the 2nd punch can beat out a lot of moves that usually hit you out of the 1st one. Jab Rekka I -> Fierce Rekka II can be really deceptive and you can still end up safe in certain distances while still having the option of ending with Jab Rekka III.

[MAGUS1234]

I did good in a some recent tournies with Fei. Guiles can be tough (Battosai/brother/choi) but its VERY winnable, just walk forward and play patient, lk CW is a life saver. Balrog gave me problems, but c.fp is one of the best tools in this match IMO. Sagats, are np, Vega is really tough, you just have to get well timed rekkas and c.fp/ bait him into loosing flip kick charge. Bison is the match I have a really hard time with, again its very winnable though. Typically it involves me walking him down with s.mp/fp, using Rekka poke strings..etc THough I did not get much Dahlsim exp, I feel that this is the hardest match, harder than honda/.

[Ouroborus]

vega is the hardest match by far imo.

EVERYTHING vega has is better than fei long except maybe damage output but those wall dives does a grip and thats without the izuna drop.

better normals, better jump ins, hes faster, bigger throw range, and his command anti air has more invincibility than yours.

[isurus]

I've talked to Sirlin and he has assured me that Fei Long is one of his main characters and that he's not a bad character. He was also kind enough to give me some pointers which I will gladly share with you now.



I've also asked him about Dee Jay and hopefully he will hit me back on that one. Basically, the main thing he emphasizes is mastery of the new Rekka ranges. Not only of the initial punch, but of the 2nd and 3rd punches as well. This is actually rings quite true with me because I notice the 2nd punch can beat out a lot of moves that usually hit you out of the 1st one. Jab Rekka I -> Fierce Rekka II can be really deceptive and you can still end up safe in certain distances while still having the option of ending with Jab Rekka III.

I played tons and tons of Super (not Turbo), and Rekkas were my main offense and defense (staying just out of their range on the 2nd or 3rd hit). So I was a bit surprised when I'd watch a lot of super turbo vids of fei (noguchi, yuubou, greentea) where they didn't use his rekkas alot, and focused on using lots of chicken wings.

So after the nerf of the CW, I think my gameplan is still going to be pretty good as I'll still rely on the Rekkas, and now just have to learn the new distances which I've already begun to do.

As in my title, "rekka rekka rekka" ;) And what you do after the 3rd rekka is important too.

[isurus]

vega is the hardest match by far imo.

EVERYTHING vega has is better than fei long except maybe damage output but those wall dives does a grip and thats without the izuna drop.

better normals, better jump ins, hes faster, bigger throw range, and his command anti air has more invincibility than yours.

Lots of rekkas, and chicken wings. One of my bro's is a Vega player, and he told me CW's are one of the most annoying things I can do to him.

[MAGUS1234]

CW gets flipkicked on reaction every time. rekka gets stuffed by c.mk/mp. You have to use c.fp to win this match.

[Onikage]

I'd listen to Magus on this one. =)

[xstancex]

My hardest matchups are vega, honda, and dalhsim. Once these guys start turtling, fei is pretty much out of options.

[Ouroborus]

since i'm bored, i'll list the matches that got better or worst since vanilla ST. feel free to discuss

ryu: better
ken: better
guile: better
chun: better
sim: worse
gief: worse
blanka: same, maybe slightly better
honda: worse
bison: worse
vega: worse
balrog: worse
sagat: better
deejay: same
t hawk: worse
cammy: same

i dont think he has enough improvements since vanilla ST. losing his corner lockdown with the chicken wing kick and losing his safe dp are severe blows for him but the new range on his rekka is too good along with flame kick juggles and lk chicken wing kick going thru fireballs.

overall he got better vs fireball characters but worse against everyone else

[orochizoolander]

I'm thinking of picking up fei because it's fun being balls out aggressive getting them in the corner but I have no idea how to use rekkas as pokes as in which rekkas to use and when any tips?

[isurus]

oro: The rekkas have different distances, and whether they are blocked or hit.

Unless you're right on top of someone, you can start with strong or fierce rekka. If it's blocked, you're going to need to reduce the strengths on successive hits depending on how far you've sunk in. If you're right on top of them, use jab, otherwise try strong or fierce if they aren't already in the corner, and you need to push them further. The last hit should be jab or strong depending on how far you sunk in on the 2nd hit. You want to be out of sweep range.

Sometimes there isn't much you can do even if your last hit is a jab and you're as far out as you can be. Honda might be able to fierce headbutt or guile might be able to roundhouse flashkick.

In the cases where you expect retaliation after the 3rd hit and you're far out, throw out a flame kick. Back in old Super days, I'd almost always catch my brother's Bison Scissor Kick. It probably still works in ST, but I haven't tested.

I read somewhere that roundhouse CW is the best option when people are in the corner, as it usually connects with all 3 hits. Something I'll have to play with.

Also, if you plan on only using 2 hits that you're sure are blocked, make sure the last is a jab or medium. You can then flame kick, block, or do another late timed rekka to catch the person off guard.

Now, if you're first or second rekka does connect, your next successive hits can be fierce. Strong might be risky if you connected far away.

Throw in normals, don't always rekka. Try ->+RH, ->+MK, c.MP, c.FP, s.FP.

Fei's rekkas can be comboed from punches only now I think. Even a s.LK won't combo, *I think*.

I learned Fei back in Super before he even had CW, and I could great corner traps with him. The CW frame delay doesn't really factor in to my game, but I see it's affected players who used it a lot.

[isurus]

CW gets flipkicked on reaction every time. rekka gets stuffed by c.mk/mp. You have to use c.fp to win this match.

Catch Vega moving forward and use a CW then, not when he's crouching or landing from a jump.

A fierce rekka at the right distance and trickery won't be caught. Don't make your style obvious.

[Higher-Jin]

oro: The rekkas have different distances, and whether they are blocked or hit.

Unless you're right on top of someone, you can start with strong or fierce rekka. If it's blocked, you're going to need to reduce the strengths on successive hits depending on how far you've sunk in. If you're right on top of them, use jab, otherwise try strong or fierce if they aren't already in the corner, and you need to push them further. The last hit should be jab or strong depending on how far you sunk in on the 2nd hit. You want to be out of sweep range.

Sometimes there isn't much you can do even if your last hit is a jab and you're as far out as you can be. Honda might be able to fierce headbutt or guile might be able to roundhouse flashkick.

In the cases where you expect retaliation after the 3rd hit and you're far out, throw out a flame kick. Back in old Super days, I'd almost always catch my brother's Bison Scissor Kick. It probably still works in ST, but I haven't tested.

I read somewhere that roundhouse CW is the best option when people are in the corner, as it usually connects with all 3 hits. Something I'll have to play with.

Also, if you plan on only using 2 hits that you're sure are blocked, make sure the last is a jab or medium. You can then flame kick, block, or do another late timed rekka to catch the person off guard.

Now, if you're first or second rekka does connect, your next successive hits can be fierce. Strong might be risky if you connected far away.

Throw in normals, don't always rekka. Try ->+RH, ->+MK, c.MP, c.FP, s.FP.

Fei's rekkas can be comboed from punches only now I think. Even a s.LK won't combo, *I think*.

I learned Fei back in Super before he even had CW, and I could great corner traps with him. The CW frame delay doesn't really factor in to my game, but I see it's affected players who used it a lot.

Great advice here ^

I love corner traps with Rekkas. Basically what you need to do to set up a Rekka trap is to threaten with a late final Rekka punch. Scrubby players will block instinctively, but good players will try to hit you back. In order to discourage this you will have to perfectly time the last rekka so it will hit them out of whatever counter hit they are attempting. If your 3rd rekka punch is being beaten out by normals it's because you are doing it too late and you need to do it earlier. If they start doing DPs to beat it out then don't do the 3rd punch and just punish them on the way down.

Anyway, after they start blocking you can really take advantage and make them desperate to jump out or do something stupid. Here are some of my favorite blocked rekka strings:

The standard: Fierce rekka I from max distance, MP rekka II, JP rekka III
First Alternative: Fierce rekka I, MP rekka II (pause) MP rekka I, MP rekka II, JP rekka III
Second Alternative: Fierce rekka I, MP rekka II (Pause) MP rekka I (pause) MP rekka I, MP rekka II, JP rekka III

(The last one is hilarious when it works because it's 6 ticks of block damage the opponent basically just handed to you out of fear.)

Basically the main idea is to reset the rekkas. This makes the opponent restless because they KNOW they can hit you between these and they feel like they are letting you have free block damage. A stupid move almost always follows. Keep in mind you can also mix in chicken wings if you think they are going to try to sweep you, or just waiting and blocking if you think they are going to try to DP or jump over you. Sirlin was right about making his mix ups count, as that's the only thing Fei really has.

Another important note I want to bring up that is somewhat unrelated. Butterfly Kick (Forward+ RH) is great for starting rekka strings. If you make them block the butterfly kick from max range it has so much frame advantage that it is very easy to make them block a Fierce rekka afterwards, and start his shenanigans. I'm starting to notice that predicting what your opponent will do after blocked Rekkas is one of the most important aspects of Fei Long's game. If you can anticipate and counter what they do then you will start winning a lot more matches.

[isurus]

Here's a good article with more detail than what I used.

http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Fei_Long_%28ST%29#The_Basics

Be aware that doc is pre-HD remix, so it's not completely up to date. There is a HD Remix only section to update you on Fei's changes.

[isurus]

Great advice here ^

... I'm starting to notice that predicting what your opponent will do after blocked Rekkas is one of the most important aspects of Fei Long's game. If you can anticipate and counter what they do then you will start winning a lot more matches.

Thanks :)

Yes, the last part I quoted is very important. Mind games are super important with Fei because if someone makes a mistake you can do a ton of damage. Most people will do only a couple of things when they are trapped and fearful, and others won't do anything at all, allowing you to get a throw.

@ Ono: If you don't have a joystick, I recommend you get one. I don't think Fei can be played properly with a regular controller, that's my experience any way.

[Aqua Snake]

I'm willing to admit while I already knew about the Rekka Strings, I honestly haven't been using them due to the shitty ass Xbox controller.

I'm starting to use them more often, and my Fei Long game is starting to get better. Doing pauses during Rekka String will allow you to break off Claw's claw (Haha) very easily.

I am starting to see how it can be effective.

Edit: I just checked that guide. Fei Long has an Air Throw!?!?!

WTF?!?!

[isurus]

I'm willing to admit while I already knew about the Rekka Strings, I honestly haven't been using them due to the shitty ass Xbox controller.

I'm starting to use them more often, and my Fei Long game is starting to get better. Doing pauses during Rekka String will allow you to break off Claw's claw (Haha) very easily.

I am starting to see how it can be effective.

Edit: I just checked that guide. Fei Long has an Air Throw!?!?!

WTF?!?!

Hahaha, I had the same reaction. It's towards and MP. Back might work too, not sure. He didn't have one in Super, I don't think. Just ST. My eyes popped outta my head when I accidently did it after I bought HD Remix.

[FreshOJ]

Fei's rekkas can be comboed from punches only now I think. Even a s.LK won't combo, *I think*.


Whoa whoa whoa.

Combos are first and foremost dependant on *attack strength* and distance from your opponent, not whether something is a punch or a kick.

If you couldn't combo into a Rekka Ken off of a s.LK, it's would be because you can't combo into it from *any* weak attack. However, after just firing up the PS2 and doing it myself on the CCC2 version, the Rekka Ken *does* combo off of any weak attack except c.LK (because it's not interruptable).

I thought that sounded suspect...but hey..you did say you weren't really sure.

[FreshOJ]

Hahaha, I had the same reaction. It's towards and MP. Back might work too, not sure. He didn't have one in Super, I don't think. Just ST. My eyes popped outta my head when I accidently did it after I bought HD Remix.

b/f + MP/HP and, no, he definitely didn't have one in Super....I think. :) I might've slept on that one back in my SNES SSF2 days. :) I was shocked that he even has *this* air throw!

[isurus]

Whoa whoa whoa.

Combos are first and foremost dependant on *attack strength* and distance from your opponent, not whether something is a punch or a kick.

If you couldn't combo into a Rekka Ken off of a s.LK, it's would be because you can't combo into it from *any* weak attack. However, after just firing up the PS2 and doing it myself on the CCC2 version, the Rekka Ken *does* combo off of any weak attack except c.LK (because it's not interruptable).

I thought that sounded suspect...but hey..you did say you weren't really sure.

I know it sounds wierd, but I thought I saw Sirlin write that somewhere, but it's not in the change list on Sirlin.net. I'll look for the source when I get back.

edit: Alright, I didn't feel like waiting. Here it is:
http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Fei_Long_(ST)#Combos


Combos

Almost ALL of your combos will start with close standing fierce because it's the most damaging and the only practical one to use since New Fei can only combo off of his punches.

[FreshOJ]

I know it sounds wierd, but I thought I saw Sirlin write that somewhere, but it's not in the change list on Sirlin.net. I'll look for the source when I get back.

edit: Alright, I didn't feel like waiting. Here it is:
http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Fei_Long_(ST)#Combos

I think you're going to want to actually test this one. We humans make mistakes every now and then. Test comboing into it off of close jab, crouch jab, and close short and see what you come up with. If those combos don't work, then the Rekka Ken has slower startup than it did in vanilla ST.

[MAGUS1234]

you can combo off cl.mp and c.lp.

[Jumpsuit]

I was the one who wrote that piece about combos with N.Fei in ST.

I never said you couldn't combo off of any other basic attack. But why combo off of something like jab, short or strong when you can combo off of fierce for max damage?

Feel like showing off? Knock yourself out. I am a big showboat when it comes to my tournament fights so I know all about the different combo options. But when it's crunch time and you're trying to come out on top you usually wanna stick with the most damaging, most simple options available to you.

If I combo off of jab its going to be a flame kick. Not a rekka punch. If I am totally outclassing my opponent I'll get fancy with the 6+hit combos but then it becomes insulting(especially online).

I often hear about how people are getting tired of scrubs and how much they suck blah blah blah...try making it a point to help them out. I've turned bitter losers into thankful learners because I took the time to explain to them why they lost and what they can improve on. I dunno about you guys but I would rather play scrubs that are evolving than one trick pony experts that brag about how great they are in a room full of novices.

BTW, I am working on an STHD wiki for Fei Long but he's very very screwy so until I get some kind of word on what's going to be fixed I can't dedicate too much time into it...otherwise it will be like pissin in the wind.

[Higher-Jin]

I was the one who wrote that piece about combos with N.Fei in ST.

I never said you couldn't combo off of any other basic attack. But why combo off of something like jab, short or strong when you can combo off of fierce for max damage?

Feel like showing off? Knock yourself out. I am a big showboat when it comes to my tournament fights so I know all about the different combo options. But when it's crunch time and you're trying to come out on top you usually wanna stick with the most damaging, most simple options available to you.

If I combo off of jab its going to be a flame kick. Not a rekka punch. If I am totally outclassing my opponent I'll get fancy with the 6+hit combos but then it becomes insulting(especially online).

I often hear about how people are getting tired of scrubs and how much they suck blah blah blah...try making it a point to help them out. I've turned bitter losers into thankful learners because I took the time to explain to them why they lost and what they can improve on. I dunno about you guys but I would rather play scrubs that are evolving than one trick pony experts that brag about how great they are in a room full of novices.

BTW, I am working on an STHD wiki for Fei Long but he's very very screwy so until I get some kind of word on what's going to be fixed I can't dedicate too much time into it...otherwise it will be like pissin in the wind.

Jumpsuit. I've talked to Sirlin and he says he uses him as one of his main characters, and he doesn't feel his flaws are a problem. That pretty much means he'll be staying more or less where he is right now since he seems pretty convinced that Fei is absoultely fine despite his problem matches. On the plus side he gave me some advice on how to play him, and I have to say he does seem a bit more viable than I originally thought. I underestimated how much utility the Chicken Wing still has, and it is still a very big source of mix ups.

[Endless]

I like Fei, but he seems kinda gimmicky to me.

His MK and HK CW seem useless to me. Or I'm not finding a decent use for them, w/o getting hit out of them.

[isurus]

I like Fei, but he seems kinda gimmicky to me.

His MK and HK CW seem useless to me. Or I'm not finding a decent use for them, w/o getting hit out of them.

I haven't tested this, but someone said his HK CW is the best when opponents are in the corner and you want to get all 3 hits in.

[isurus]

I was the one who wrote that piece about combos with N.Fei in ST.

I never said you couldn't combo off of any other basic attack. But why combo off of something like jab, short or strong when you can combo off of fierce for max damage?

Great contribution to that wiki :) I think we are all looking forward to the STHD update.

Using Fierce is great after a jump-in or walk in, but sometimes the opportunity doesn't present itself to be able to do a standing Fierce, sometimes a jab or strong might be required. Fresh and I were debating on whether Fei could use a kick to lead into a combo, and thus I quoted your part of the article. I tried testing it a couple weeks back, and found it to be true IIRC; only punches worked, and I didn't have good enough timing to get crouching strong to go into rekkas. Though I didn't have an arcade stick at the time, and won't for a little while longer.

If kicks work, I'd be glad to be proven wrong. I'll do my share of testing when I get back.

[FreshOJ]

I was the one who wrote that piece about combos with N.Fei in ST.

I never said you couldn't combo off of any other basic attack. But why combo off of something like jab, short or strong when you can combo off of fierce for max damage?


Hey Jumpsuit. Sorry if I offended you. I've always respected your knowledge of Fei Long...and that's from waaaaay back in the days of a.g.sf2. I was merely stating what I was stating for information purposes only. Practically speaking, you're absolutely right. Even if I could combo the Rekka Ken off of weak attacks, why would I when I should be linking to good ol' cl.hp and then Rekka Ken them to dizzyland? My favorite combo from the front has always been j.hp/j.hk, cr.wp, cl.hp XX HP Rekka Ken (x3). If I catch someone open at point-blank range or cross up with j.mk, I sub out the cr.wp for cl.mp. The damage difference and dizzy potential is just too great to ignore.



BTW, I am working on an STHD wiki for Fei Long but he's very very screwy so until I get some kind of word on what's going to be fixed I can't dedicate too much time into it...otherwise it will be like pissin in the wind.

Your efforts are greatly appreciated. In fact...do you have any videos of your Fei Long in action? I've been wanting to see that for about a year now. :)

[FreshOJ]

Great contribution to that wiki :) I think we are all looking forward to the STHD update.

Using Fierce is great after a jump-in or walk in, but sometimes the opportunity doesn't present itself to be able to do a standing Fierce, sometimes a jab or strong might be required.


STOP THE BUS!!! SSSRRRRRKKKKKTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Huh? When wouldn't a close standing fierce be able to hit when a jab or strong does? Cl.hp actually outranges cl.wp and cl.mp ever so slightly and comes out just as fast. I know that without having read the Wiki. Jumpsuit is absolutely correct.



Fresh and I were debating on whether Fei could use a kick to lead into a combo, and thus I quoted your part of the article. I tried testing it a couple weeks back, and found it to be true IIRC; only punches worked, and I didn't have good enough timing to get crouching strong to go into rekkas. Though I didn't have an arcade stick at the time, and won't for a little while longer.

If kicks work, I'd be glad to be proven wrong. I'll do my share of testing when I get back.

First of all, cr.mp isn't going to work because it's not interruptable. Second, I just tested it myself on the CCC2 version of ST and, unless the Rekka Ken's startup has been altered in HD Remix, it can combo after an interrupted cl.wk. Third, remember again that while this is all true information, the bottom line point still remains...

If you can hit with any attack up close, it should either be cl.hp or be a move that you can link into cl.hp. While you *can* hit with anything else, cl.hp opens up Fei Long's true offensive potential.

Incidentally, Fei Long is one of the most link-happy characters in ST. You can look up my SNES SSF2 Link FAQ and get an idea for why Jumpsuit and I are saying either hit with or link to cl.hp for the win.

[isurus]

STOP THE BUS!!! SSSRRRRRKKKKKTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Huh? When wouldn't a close standing fierce be able to hit when a jab or strong does? Cl.hp actually outranges cl.wp and cl.mp ever so slightly and comes out just as fast. I know that without having read the Wiki. Jumpsuit is absolutely correct.


I forgot to write *crouching* in front of jab or strong punch. Sometimes you're ducking and you strike, and hit the opponent low. I did say sometimes a *standing [close] fierce*, hence, you have to hit low...

I also stated previously that I hardly ever played Super Turbo, I played Super a lot. Obviously things have changed and I hadn't updated myself on the changes. I've been away from my 360 and haven't had the time to thoroughly test everything you guys have. I don't remember if I tried a close standing WK or not. Just reiterating what Jumpsuit said...

edit: Was able to test on my brothers PS3, and standing close short does combo into rekkas.

[Aqua Snake]

Jumpsuit. I've talked to Sirlin and he says he uses him as one of his main characters, and he doesn't feel his flaws are a problem. That pretty much means he'll be staying more or less where he is right now since he seems pretty convinced that Fei is absoultely fine despite his problem matches. On the plus side he gave me some advice on how to play him, and I have to say he does seem a bit more viable than I originally thought. I underestimated how much utility the Chicken Wing still has, and it is still a very big source of mix ups.

Oh boy....

Well if that's the case, they should at least Fix Fei Long's L and M Chicken wings constantly missing Blanka when crouched.

Also I think someone mentioned that Balrog is the only member of the cast that can block c.HP while standing. If that wasn't intentional, then that should be fixed too.

[AtTheGates]

Also I think someone mentioned that Balrog is the only member of the cast that can block c.HP while standing. If that wasn't intentional, then that should be fixed too.

boxer and dictator.

[Aqua Snake]

boxer and dictator.

Him too?

Damn.

[Higher-Jin]

Oh boy....

Well if that's the case, they should at least Fix Fei Long's L and M Chicken wings constantly missing Blanka when crouched.

Also I think someone mentioned that Balrog is the only member of the cast that can block c.HP while standing. If that wasn't intentional, then that should be fixed too.

I encourage you all to message him about your feelings on Fei Long. I think he's already had enough of my complaining. Maybe if a few more people request fixes he can at least have the minor issues such as the chicken wing and stand blocked c. fierce fixed.

http://www.sirlin.net/contact/

Just try to keep it respectful.

[Mortal Lock]

"piano-ing" is the new hot word. Similar to Maverick, Rogue, Folksy and Bailout.

Everyone and their mothers are talking about it online when I play. When they ask, "hey jumpsuit...do you you use the piano method when doing reversals?" I tell them "I don't use that artsy fartsy srk bullshit. I reverse the old fashioned way with a one button press...because I am just that good" :arazz::rofl:

Jesse you OG motherfucker! :lol::lol::lol:

[Jumpsuit]

Jumpsuit. I've talked to Sirlin and he says he uses him as one of his main characters, and he doesn't feel his flaws are a problem. That pretty much means he'll be staying more or less where he is right now since he seems pretty convinced that Fei is absoultely fine despite his problem matches. On the plus side he gave me some advice on how to play him, and I have to say he does seem a bit more viable than I originally thought. I underestimated how much utility the Chicken Wing still has, and it is still a very big source of mix ups.

Tell him to fix his flame kick. It's all sorts of fucked, especially vs Sim.
HINT: Have sim do his slides against you and try to scoop him up off the ground using the short flame kick. Also go into training mode and try doing jump in RH, low fwd into super and tell me what happens randomly. :annoy:


Hey Jumpsuit. Sorry if I offended you. I've always respected your knowledge of Fei Long...and that's from waaaaay back in the days of a.g.sf2. I was merely stating what I was stating for information purposes only. Practically speaking, you're absolutely right.

Offend me? Cmon man, get serious! I am nobody special in this game and even if you did offend me SO WHAT!? I'd get over it lol! I was just going back over what I had written and saw that I never said what you said that you thought I said...know what I'm sayin? :looney:


Your efforts are greatly appreciated. In fact...do you have any videos of your Fei Long in action? I've been wanting to see that for about a year now. :)

I just try to post what I know, hoping it will help others. As for vids, nope. None lately...not sure if I'd want them posted either especially after the ass rape fest I have been getting from Bison players. Fei is severely outclassed in that match.



Also I think someone mentioned that Balrog is the only member of the cast that can block c.HP while standing. If that wasn't intentional, then that should be fixed too.

Bison can also block fei's crouching fierce(meaty) but for some odd reason you can connect from max distance(Fei's open palms touching their feet). Weird shit if you ask me.

Higher Jin...with all due respect to Sirlin, he's not going to listen to me about Fei. I've already expressed my concerns in a private email convo along with several other top players. Balancing Fei is the least of the problems. His glitches and screwy factors have to be addressed first.

Off the record I feel Fei has been weakened so badly vs Bison that it's almost sadistic. BTW, don't miss a flame kick vs Guile because RH flash kick counters easily.

As of now Fei's worst matches(IMO) are Bison, Honda, Ken, Ryu, Akuma, Vega.

[Ouroborus]

how bout his best matches?

i'd say chun li, blanka and i dont know who else to put.

zangief is a bit hard now compared to vanilla st since chickenwing kick is near useless vs him.

[Jumpsuit]

how bout his best matches?

i'd say chun li, blanka and i dont know who else to put.

zangief is a bit hard now compared to vanilla st since chickenwing kick is near useless vs him.

Best matches?? Well, both Chun and Blanka have some REALLY simple tricks they can use vs Fei that nearly shut him down for free but I sure as hell am not gonna post them up :karate: But he does ok against both Chun and Blanka.

Fei does well vs Cammy and Hawk...still does ok vs Gief

[Aqua Snake]

I encourage you all to message him about your feelings on Fei Long. I think he's already had enough of my complaining. Maybe if a few more people request fixes he can at least have the minor issues such as the chicken wing and stand blocked c. fierce fixed.

http://www.sirlin.net/contact/

Just try to keep it respectful.

My email was sent. I wonder if he will even bother to respond to someone like me. :looney:

[caliagent#3]

HINT: Also go into training mode and try doing jump in RH, low fwd into super and tell me what happens randomly. :annoy:



LOL I thought i was the only one with this problem. It's way too weird.

[Higher-Jin]

My email was sent. I wonder if he will even bother to respond to someone like me. :looney:

Well he responded to me, and I'm no big name. I recommend that A LOT of people bug him about it if they feel strongly about it. Maybe if enough people communicate their feelings about Fei he'll do one of the following things: A) Give Fei some things during the patch or B) Address our concerns in the thread and tell us how he personally gets around them.

Either way it's a win/win. Again I've already sent him multiple e-mails, and I don't think he's taking my complaint seriously anymore. The only way he may consider it now is if a lot of people show their concern. It's a lot like pressuring your congressman to do something. He won't listen to one or two Joe Smoes, but if a large amount of people all say the same things then he might realize there's something more to it.

The problem is he generally responds the same way he responded in the play test builds of the game. You have to beat him to prove your point. So yeah if anyone is really good at Honda/Sim and feels like they can take on Sirlin's Fei I would encourage you to challenge him in order to demonstrate Fei's inadequacy.

IMO in a lot of ways this is like a lay man trying to make his case against a lawyer. The best way for them to see things differently is another lawyer beating them in court. However, Sirlin's Fei is no pushover from what I hear. He gave Damdai's Akuma a run for his money.

[xstancex]

Best matches?? Well, both Chun and Blanka have some REALLY simple tricks they can use vs Fei that nearly shut him down for free but I sure as hell am not gonna post them up :karate: But he does ok against both Chun and Blanka.

Fei does well vs Cammy and Hawk...still does ok vs Gief

psstt... fierce slide wit blanka, his slide will go under all of fei's rekka kicks.. just like wit dalhsim...

chun li, jumping short beats all if not most of fei's moves, head stomp and runaway spinning bird kick is annoying against fei and even if he tried to do rekka kick, chun li can just jump short kick again.....

[Aqua Snake]

chun li, jumping short beats all if not most of fei's moves, head stomp and runaway spinning bird kick is annoying against fei and even if he tried to do rekka kick, chun li can just jump short kick again.....

Generally against players who love to do jump in short or jab, you can throw out a chicken wing just before the attacks is going to hit you in order to take advantage of the invulnerable startup frames.

[Higher-Jin]

Generally against players who love to do jump in short or jab, you can throw out a chicken wing just before the attacks is going to hit you in order to take advantage of the invulnerable startup frames.

Some people like to neutral jump lk or some stupid shit. Try to trip guard sweep them or walk forward flame kick. His sweep is one of the least used tools I've seen and it's actually pretty good in certain situations. For example you can use it against dhalsim's weak extended limbs for a knock down. I'm having trouble advancing against Sim's s. mk/hk, but I'm going to experiment with butterfly kick to advance.

[FreshOJ]

I forgot to write *crouching* in front of jab or strong punch. Sometimes you're ducking and you strike, and hit the opponent low. I did say sometimes a *standing [close] fierce*, hence, you have to hit low...

I also stated previously that I hardly ever played Super Turbo, I played Super a lot.

We're both almost in the same boat. I played a lot of Super and my knowledge of ST isn't as great.

That said...even I know that in both Super and ST, close fierce hits crouching opponents (except Blanka, perhaps), so there's never a reason to use a crouching attack unless you're linking into close fierce XX Rekka Ken (x3).

Did I mention that Jumpsuit was right? :) Ok...good.



edit: Was able to test on my brothers PS3, and standing close short does combo into rekkas.

As expected...especially since I tested it, too, per my previous posts. I'm glad to know I'm not delusional.

[xstancex]

Generally against players who love to do jump in short or jab, you can throw out a chicken wing just before the attacks is going to hit you in order to take advantage of the invulnerable startup frames.

I never was able to counter a jumping short from chunli wit a rekka kick, even at startup. Even, if the the rekka kick was at it's last hit animation, chun li's jumping short would beat it out hands down, no trade at all. The best air move that Fei could do was a jumping jab and that had to be hit before chunli brought out her jumping short.

The invulnerable startup time, are you referring to the short rekka kick?
Last I played hd remix, fei's weird invulnerable startup stayed the same as they did back in ST wit the Mk and Rh rekka kicks.

I rarely use the rekka kicks in hd remix nowadays, relying a lot on his rekka pressure.

[Aqua Snake]

The invulnerable startup time, are you referring to the short rekka kick?
Last I played hd remix, fei's weird invulnerable startup stayed the same as they did back in ST wit the Mk and Rh rekka kicks.

I rarely use the rekka kicks in hd remix nowadays, relying a lot on his rekka pressure.

Yeah I was talking about the short CW. I fought against a Ken who would tick throw me with the usual jump in jab into kneebash. I accidently threw out a short CW right before the jab was about to connect and I got in three deep hits. The timing is strict.

To ensure it wasn't a fluke I tried it again when he tried the same foolishness and it did the same thing.

It's worth experimenting with all the jump in jabs and shorts to see if it works 100%.

[xstancex]

Yeah I was talking about the short CW. I fought against a Ken who would tick throw me with the usual jump in jab into kneebash. I accidently threw out a short CW right before the jab was about to connect and I got in three deep hits. The timing is strict.

To ensure it wasn't a fluke I tried it again when he tried the same foolishness and it did the same thing.

It's worth experimenting with all the jump in jabs and shorts to see if it works 100%.

Cool... I still don't like about the fact even though u hit all 3 hits of a point blank rekka kick, there's not enough hit stun that your opponent will still be able to hit/throw you back. In ken's case, you still eat that kneebash.

[minty]

I have a question and didn't want to start a new thread. Is the motion for the flame kick when crossed up the same as a shotos? I'm getting pummeled when I'm crossed up because I keep flame kicking in the wrong direction when the opponent lands over me (usually a DeeJay) and this turns into a 5hit+ combo.

Is the only choice to block this or is the motion different? I thought the motion would be (if facing right): B,DB,D,DF? Is this wrong? I have no way to practice it on training since the cpu barely does a crossup move.

[xstancex]

Yeah I was talking about the short CW. I fought against a Ken who would tick throw me with the usual jump in jab into kneebash. I accidently threw out a short CW right before the jab was about to connect and I got in three deep hits. The timing is strict.

To ensure it wasn't a fluke I tried it again when he tried the same foolishness and it did the same thing.

It's worth experimenting with all the jump in jabs and shorts to see if it works 100%.


I have a question and didn't want to start a new thread. Is the motion for the flame kick when crossed up the same as a shotos? I'm getting pummeled when I'm crossed up because I keep flame kicking in the wrong direction when the opponent lands over me (usually a DeeJay) and this turns into a 5hit+ combo.

Is the only choice to block this or is the motion different? I thought the motion would be (if facing right): B,DB,D,DF? Is this wrong? I have no way to practice it on training since the cpu barely does a crossup move.

I never tried this myself since I don't like eating crossup combos if I miss it but it is supposedly B, D, DB, D, DF, + kick to reverse flame kick a crossup.

[isurus]

That said...even I know that in both Super and ST, close fierce hits crouching opponents (except Blanka, perhaps), so there's never a reason to use a crouching attack unless you're linking into close fierce XX Rekka Ken (x3).



I need some clarification on what you said here. Are you saying a close standing fierce will hit crouching opponents as an overhead, or it just hits them as they are crouched even though you are standing? If it's the latter, I did know that.

My objective is to hit someone low for a couple of reasons:

What I was saying was sometimes the opponent is blocking high (thinking you might throw a -> + MK), or maybe you are ducking against an attack and don't want to risk standing up into something like a Sagat high tiger or Shoto hurricane kick as it passes over you... so you stay crouched, hit them with an unblocked crouch jab and rekka from there. If a close standing fierce hits after the crouching jab, that's something I'll have to start practicing, and it seems like that's what you're saying. I never personally tried that.

I think I read someone saying you can combo into rekkas after a crouching fierce in some cases, I'm guessing on someone's jump-in or wake up. Is that true?

[isurus]

I never tried this myself since I don't like eating crossup combos if I miss it but it is supposedly B, D, DB, D, DF, + kick to reverse flame kick a crossup.

I thought it would be B, D, DF + kick, as the DP is F, D, DB + punch IIRC. It'd kinda be like a reverse ochio throw, without the 2nd part in there.

Though since Fei can block pressing F at the right time, maybe you'd just want to do B, F(when they cross), D, DF + kick. I'm stating those motions as if they didn't cross you up yet. I';ll make a pick and add it later.

[MAGUS1234]

SUre, its not easy though. Just meaty c.fp into mp rekka or supper. You can also do c.lk s.fp xx rekkas

[xstancex]

SUre, its not easy though. Just meaty c.fp into mp rekka or supper. You can also do c.lk s.fp xx rekkas

Is that a meaty c. low kick? I know that you can do it with a meaty c. jab > close fierce > rekka. I should test that later.

[FreshOJ]

Is that a meaty c. low kick? I know that you can do it with a meaty c. jab > close fierce > rekka. I should test that later.

Cr.lk recovers fast enough to link a cl.hp to it *without* it being meaty. Cr.lp is much easier to link a cl.hp after, though. (Check my FAQ.)

[isurus]

Cr.lk recovers fast enough to link a cl.hp to it *without* it being meaty. Cr.lp is much easier to link a cl.hp after, though. (Check my FAQ.)

Where would that be?

[giantnine]

so, anyone found any good strats for after the CW? gone are our days of CW -> close HP domination, so what are our post-wing options?

I have been using:

c.lk x2 / c.mp -> c.mp -> rekka
c.lk x2 / c.mp -> c.fp
c.lk x2 -> CW
etc...

any other good options? we don't have lockdown blockstun, but i agree with others that the CW deserves some more experimentation...

/$.02

[xstancex]

so, anyone found any good strats for after the CW? gone are our days of CW -> close HP domination, so what are our post-wing options?

I have been using:

c.lk x2 / c.mp -> c.mp -> rekka
c.lk x2 / c.mp -> c.fp
c.lk x2 -> CW
etc...

any other good options? we don't have lockdown blockstun, but i agree with others that the CW deserves some more experimentation...

/$.02

Well... everything else still "sorta" works well just that the close fierce/standing jab combo don't work anymore.

if at the right distances, you can still do his mixups(trip, throw, tick throw, etc...) you can still combo a cr. jab but it requires the opp. to be crouching(I am not sure if it works for small chars but it works on huge chars like gief).

His tech throw crossups still work, so that's still good(use rh throw).

[SaBrE]

what to do nets you a few options after flying kicks. doing flying kicks is not really recommended on gief/thawk since if the 3rd hit doesnt connect, they get a free 360 on you. And even if you connect all hits(or atleast the 3rd), hit or blocked, you better do super, dp, or short flying kick ASAP, or you will get grabbed.

after flying kick, I tend to mix up between doing a short dp, s.fierce into safe rekkas, s.fierce into flying kicks, super, throw, or another short flying kick. He has plenty of options. while not as reliable as it was in vanilla ST, they still pose a shitty situation on the defender.

I tend to do A LOT of short flying kicks up close on charge characters to force them to stand up and lose their down charge, allowing me to stay on them easier(of course, unless they are smart and eat the overhead and keep their charge to AA the next flying kick.)

My options heavily depend on the character I'm facing. A neat little trick is using the rh flying kick on blanka up close. A lot of fei users get frustrated due to blankas low hitbox in crouch, causing the move to wiff like crazy. But if you do the rh flying kick up close, only the 3rd hit will connect. It will crossup, and hit really deep, easily allowing a normal to combo. So I tend to do s.fierce into rh flying kick to get the crossup, then s.short,s.fierce, rekka. Timing seems pretty strict. or you can just get the crossup and followup with a dp. seems really reliable.

just a couble tidbits from me =)

[Higher-Jin]

Some Honda matchup notes:

- His super is always punishable on block with fierce rekka x 3. The timing is tight. I suggest starting slightly before Honda even lands.

- s. lk, s. mk, s. hp, and s. jp will all beat headbutt with the right timing and distance. However, you will still randomly be hit at times and the trade will not be in your favor. For reasons I don't understand c. hp seems to always lose to headbutt. It may be too low to the ground to hit it at all.

- Chicken wing can beat out headbutt when the following two conditions are met:

1) The chicken wing is on it's second or third hit animation

2) Honda is not in his jab headbutt invincibility frames

- s. FP can beat or trade with hands at certain distances.

That's all I really got. It's pretty horrible match overall. Fei does his best damage mix ups on wakeup, but they are all pretty much a non option against Honda. He has jab headbutt which is like a safe DP. He has stored ochio which is another wake up option, and finally he has the butt slam to get him out of cross up attempts and anything else he can't get out of the first two with.

[isurus]

Was in training mode, I noticed that the kick throw has hitboxes. You can also cross "under" someone you threw into the corner, so there's a some mix-up possiblity there. Though in certain situations, those hitboxes will be a problem, say probably against an air fireball or slow fireball from someone. I think this is a bug, aren't throws supposed to be invulnerable?

The punch throw is invulnerable and you cannot cross under people. I didn't test everyone, just assuming you can't walk through everyone's body.

If this was already mentioned, I apologize for the redundancy :P

[skankin garbage]

I wanted to ask a question right now, while some really good Fei players are hitting up this thread:

Does anyone besides me think that the longer ranged Rekkas are kind of pointless - specifically the HP Rekka? I never played Fei in ST because I think I would have gone crazy if I had to learn how to CW with devilish consistency, but I fired up training mode in ST to look at the differences, and it feels like doing safe Rekkas is a lot easier in ST, like there's a way smaller chance of ending Rekka x2 within your opponent's sweep range. Also, it feels a lot eaier in ST to do repeated Rekka x2 strings with Fierce -> Strong.

Also, I dunno if anyone noticed this, but STHD Fei's jab Rekka doesn't actually travel farther than it did in ST. :P

[SaBrE]

i think the rekka change is better. it makes for more efficient zoning. makes fighting characters like guile a little more reliable, since i can start rekka outside of guile low forward range. thats just one example. Rekka pokes were indeed easier to use in ST. at max range you just did 2 fierce rekkas and stop to be safe, or 2 fierce rekkas and finish into a jab rekka to also stay safe, and that would be all she wrote. In HD, you gotta mix up your strengths more, depending on your range, and who you face. The strong rekkas are a really good substitue for the old fierce rekka's. You also gotta know when you should and should NOT delay the next rekka hit.

In the end, his rekkas take a little more skill and on the fly decision making, but have more range versatility. I hated them at first, but I got used to it, and can poke with high succession now.

[giantnine]

hmm. something odd. facing down a HHS honda, i noticed that the rekkashinken seemed to slurp him in and get me all my hits when i hit that hitbox in front of the hands. am i on crack, or should it only be hitting the first / second hit?

sorry, long day.

[giantnine]

sabre:

what rekka strengths you using vs dic?

[SaBrE]

depends on the range. i tend to not rely on rekka too often vs dictator. the scissor kicks give fei hell. one thing is for sure, i wont do a 3rd rekka often, unless i like eating scissor

[Aqua Snake]

I just wanted to say I fought Sabre's Fei Long and my Fei Long looks like a scrub in comparison.

That is all. :sweat:

[SaBrE]

i woulda played more, but i got disconnected, and at that point, i was getting sick of em for the time being

[FreshOJ]

Where would that be?

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/snes/file/588757/881

Yes, I did this with SNES SSF2, but you can logically deduce anything that changed from that version to ST.

[Higher-Jin]

Some notes on the Vega matchup:

- Overhead counters slide. You can also do an anticipatory short chicken wing if you think Vega will start the match like that.

- Neutral jump MK and flame kick are some of Fei's best options against wall dive.

- c. HP is integral to countering c. jab pokes

- If you anticipate the alternate wall dive. (Charge down, up + Punch) You can punish it on block by doing rekka x 2 very quickly. You won't reach him with the first hit but you can reach him with the second.

Some notes on the Akuma matchup:

- If you predict jump back fireball as Akuma's opening move you can sometimes counter by doing a complete Fierce Rekka chain. If Akuma did a slow fireball you should be able to go under it and hit him with the final fierce Rekka.

- As said before you can sometimes do short chicken wing through the air fireball and juggle him with a flame kick afterward.

- He's even harder to fight against than Ryu due to the fact that he can do the basic fireball gameplan much better than he does. He has an invincible uppercut, better fireball recovery, and even has extra range on his sweep.

Can I ask you guys is there any advantage for the Fei player if the shoto throws a slow fireball? They generally recover faster and are much more able to trip guard sweep you/uppercut when they use the slow fireball. I don't know why they wouldn't just continually throw slow fireballs.