Help against tick throwers

[nothing]

I'm a total noob to this game. I started playing Guile just because I've always enjoyed him. Anyway, after playing some matches online and getting a feel for the game, the biggest problem that I'm having is against people that constantly tick throw. Just a small example, Honda bearhug into cross up jump Hk (I think) into bearhug into cross up... ad infinitum.

What am I supposed to do against this? I've reversal flashkick and reversal super and both go the opposite way of where Honda is after the cross up. Mashing jab or short doesn't seem to help either.

Am I supposed to jump when I think I'm about to get tick thrown? Any advise would be much appreciated.

[Shirts]

I'm a total noob to this game. I started playing Guile just because I've always enjoyed him. Anyway, after playing some matches online and getting a feel for the game, the biggest problem that I'm having is against people that constantly tick throw. Just a small example, Honda bearhug into cross up jump Hk (I think) into bearhug into cross up... ad infinitum.

What am I supposed to do against this? I've reversal flashkick and reversal super and both go the opposite way of where Honda is after the cross up. Mashing jab or short doesn't seem to help either.

Am I supposed to jump when I think I'm about to get tick thrown? Any advise would be much appreciated.

First, ST is all about tick throws, so depending on the matchup you might have a hard time reversing throws.

As far as your example, you can try to reverse throw when he tries to bear hug you the second time.

Usually reversal special move like an uppercut is the way to go when trying to reverse tick throws.

[TVG]

Slightly unrelated but is there a way to make charging reversals go the correct way against crossups? Like the f,df,d,db+p motion for shotos.

[DevilJin 01]

If your character has a quick jab or short you can use that to stuff regular throw attempts.

[Angrynord]

I would figure that LK flash kick would stuff the crossup...since it hits kind of directly above Guile. You could always run away with the roundhouse version. That's what I used to do with dictator to run away from jump ins until I got confident in my AA. You know, except with fierce Psycho Crusher.

[SaBrE]

i use rh flash kick to get a trade and since its horizontal travel distance is HUGE, it really helps you get out of really tight spots and resets the match if it wiffs. plus, if it crosses under and gets the hit, the opponent will fly one way, while you fly the other. try it. i think that is the most important function of the new flashkick, IMO

[Syxx573]

reversal throw? As my friend said... "try not to overthink it." Best advice I've gotten so far.

[omni]

If your character has a quick jab or short you can use that to stuff regular throw attempts.

This is soooo not reliable in ST and I would 100% recommend not even going for this.

You can take the jump in attack just to keep your flash kick charged, then flash kick after the jump in attack.

You can also try to counter the throw with your own throw - I recommend doing the 'piano' method - mash on Strong then Fierce over and over (since you are using guile - he has no kick throw). Or double tap the same button with 2 different fingers really quickly.

Even if you flash kick the wrong way and it doesn't hit honda - getting away from him and resetting the match is good enough. just go back to throwing sonic booms and zoning him out. The matchup goes: guile keeps honda out with sonic booms, honda spends the whole match trying to get in - once he gets in, he goes for throws to make up all the damage. So just keep him out more and you'll be fine.

Derek Daniels
http://lowfierce.blogspot.com

[Drunken_Master]

This is soooo not reliable in ST and I would 100% recommend not even going for this.

You can take the jump in attack just to keep your flash kick charged, then flash kick after the jump in attack.

You can also try to counter the throw with your own throw - I recommend doing the 'piano' method - mash on Strong then Fierce over and over (since you are using guile - he has no kick throw). Or double tap the same button with 2 different fingers really quickly.

Even if you flash kick the wrong way and it doesn't hit honda - getting away from him and resetting the match is good enough. just go back to throwing sonic booms and zoning him out. The matchup goes: guile keeps honda out with sonic booms, honda spends the whole match trying to get in - once he gets in, he goes for throws to make up all the damage. So just keep him out more and you'll be fine.

Derek Daniels
http://lowfierce.blogspot.com

Guile can't block an overhead jump in and maintain his charge.

Good point about throwing a thrower though. What a lot of people don't realize is that in a lot of cases where they tick throw you, you can just throw them. The only way you won't be able to throw them is if they have a greater throw range than you and they are outside your throw range, and of course you can't out-throw a spinning piledriver or cyclone.

EDIT: Oh, my mistake. You said to take the jump in hit.

[SweetJohnnyV]

There's a lot of good advice in this thread about how to get out of tick throws, but I'm going to give you the best advice yet: Don't let yourself get put into a situation where they can tick throw you to begin with.

Once they're in, sure, do whatever last ditch effort works best. But at this point, you should consider it a bonus if you manage to get out of it. I know it isn't practical to never be in range against a lot of characters. But if you keep this in mind, it will still help you a lot.

[Shirts]

I'm a total noob to this game. I started playing Guile just because I've always enjoyed him. Anyway, after playing some matches online and getting a feel for the game, the biggest problem that I'm having is against people that constantly tick throw. Just a small example, Honda bearhug into cross up jump Hk (I think) into bearhug into cross up... ad infinitum.

What am I supposed to do against this? I've reversal flashkick and reversal super and both go the opposite way of where Honda is after the cross up. Mashing jab or short doesn't seem to help either.

Am I supposed to jump when I think I'm about to get tick thrown? Any advise would be much appreciated.

Another trick I use a lot:

It's risky, but if you're getting pressured non stop, try to take the hit and then throw to reset the situation.

[blitzfu]

There's a lot of good advice in this thread about how to get out of tick throws, but I'm going to give you the best advice yet: Don't let yourself get put into a situation where they can tick throw you to begin with.

Once they're in, sure, do whatever last ditch effort works best. But at this point, you should consider it a bonus if you manage to get out of it. I know it isn't practical to never be in range against a lot of characters. But if you keep this in mind, it will still help you a lot.

^^Yep. Another way to think of it is to pressure your opponent with tick throws. Let HIM try to figure out how to get out of YOUR throw traps.

[Jimmy Bones]

<-------Tick Throwah.





Get ready.

[UltraDavid]

I'm a total noob to this game. I started playing Guile just because I've always enjoyed him. Anyway, after playing some matches online and getting a feel for the game, the biggest problem that I'm having is against people that constantly tick throw. Just a small example, Honda bearhug into cross up jump Hk (I think) into bearhug into cross up... ad infinitum.

What am I supposed to do against this? I've reversal flashkick and reversal super and both go the opposite way of where Honda is after the cross up. Mashing jab or short doesn't seem to help either.

Am I supposed to jump when I think I'm about to get tick thrown? Any advise would be much appreciated.Man I do that with Honda all day if I can get it, although the down+forward splash is more reliable for him as a safe jump. So, fierce grab, immediate toward jumping down+forward, crouching short/jab, fierce grab again, etc. The thing with this is that the jumping splash usually crosses up but not always so Honda can't be sure which way to block in case you do a flashkick, so if you do a reversal flash kick every time, eventually you're probably gonna hit Honda out of this. Doing a reversal every time is hard and it guarantees that Honda will get the next fierce grab, but then regardless of what you do, if Honda safe jumps and blocks and correctly here, you're going to take some kind of damage anyway.

But yeah, best defense against this? Don't let Honda grab you midscreen, because this only works midscreen (ie, if you're not in the corner). If you notice, every good Guile player almost immediately backs himself into the corner against Honda. I'm not sure if this is a conscious decision they make in order to avoid the possibility of eating this throw loop, but the result is still that they avoid it.


Actually, I'm just talking from ST knowledge. Does roundhouse flash kick maybe escape this trap entirely even midscreen? Gotta test this.

[MiloDC]

Buy a controller with a turbo switch.

[runaround]

Is there a small window in ST when you enter block stun or hit stun where you can't be thrown, like in 3s? I'm watching online match videos and it looks like there are no such "safe" windows.

[TVG]

Is there a small window in ST when you enter block stun or hit stun where you can't be thrown, like in 3s? I'm watching online match videos and it looks like there are no such "safe" windows.

There is, it's just much smaller. So against a properly done tick throw you either have to reversal throw or reversal invincible move, sometimes due to throw ranges you're stuckt with having to do an invincible move. But you can still try to throw too early and have a normal come out, happens all the time to me. I think WW had no such window, someone correct me if i'm wrong.

[Vickers]

Buy a controller with a turbo switch.

Have you got a hard-on for controllers with the turbo function...Second thread mentioning something along the lines of buy a turbo controller :confused:

Bad advice regardless, learning tournament standard controller setup is best.

Learn to throw when you expect a throw you will either beat them out and throw first or you will tech which is always good (puts guile back at good range for booms, backfist, flashkick turtling too). Eating the hit they attempt to tick with is also helpful every once in a while to break tick throw rhythm and get the pace of the match back in your favour.

[gridman]

Another trick I use a lot:

It's risky, but if you're getting pressured non stop, try to take the hit and then throw to reset the situation.

You know I'm almost 100% positive this was proven to do absolutely nothing.

[Shinkuu Tatsumaki]

So is it possible to reversal Gief's tick SPDs?! I swear, I've tried to shoryu so many times and don't get it.

[SweetJohnnyV]

You know I'm almost 100% positive this was proven to do absolutely nothing.

IIRC, that argument boiled down to NKI saying that regardless of whether you hit or block that you still both have exactly one frame after stun to go for the throw, so why ever block. I forget, but getting hit and blocking a move also may have the same amount of hit/block stun frames, which further fueled his argument.

However, I'm pretty sure that taking the hit may not push you back as far in some cases. If this is true, and if blocking would push you out of throw range, then taking the hit may allow you to still throw. This becomes more important if your opponent has a long throw range than you. You don't want them to be in a range where they can throw you but you can't throw them.

Of course, all of this is moot if you use a reversal move instead of trying to counter-throw.


So is it possible to reversal Gief's tick SPDs?! I swear, I've tried to shoryu so many times and don't get it.

Yes it is. Here's a video from NKI showing how it works. (http://zachd.com/nki/NKI-How.to.Reverse.Tick.Attempts.rar)

It's still only a fallback plan though. Most good giefs which mix up which, and how many, normals they do before ticking you to make anticipating on which frame to reversal really tough to begin with. Then, the moment that you show them that you can reversal their stuff expect random non-tick attempts to bait out your shoryu. That said, it's still a really valuable skill to learn.

[Nos99]

Learn your reversal timing.

Usually when someone stops a tick-throw, they reversed with something. Throw or special. It's just that the "reversal" message doesn't come up for throws (basically).

[jchensor]

You know I'm almost 100% positive this was proven to do absolutely nothing.

I'm pretty sure that proof was wrong.

Block Stun lasts a lot longer ONLY from Jump Attacks. Play Gief. Do a Jumping Fierce to an enemy so that your Fierce basically lands on their head (so do it earlier so it's out and falls onto their head) and SPD right when you land. You'll grab them. If you do that and they block, you can't grab them because they are still in Block Stun.

And we've all seen the cross-up, walk backwards for a bit, Throw tick. The reason you walk back so far before Throwing because Block Stun is longer. If you HIT the person with the cross-up, you can throw them much faster.

I'm almost positive Block Stun is longer than Hit Stun.

- James

[gridman]

I didnt remember what/who won the argument but I just remembered it was HUGE and then dissapeared.


whoever asked about reversing giefs spd - yes you can. good luck. its really hard especially when gief/hawk start mixing it up.

[Fulaani]

Slightly unrelated but is there a way to make charging reversals go the correct way against crossups? Like the f,df,d,db+p motion for shotos.
what does that motion do?

[fatboy]

If your character has a quick jab or short you can use that to stuff regular throw attempts.

I would not depend on this. :sweat:

Throws are instant in ST. Most jabs/shorts take 3-4 frames of start up animation before they hit.

If the thrower in within their prespective throwing range they will throw the throwee every single time during the start up frames of the counter jab/short.

Best bet is to reversal throw (if the thrower is within your throw range) or reverse invincible special.

[pokken]

Mash reversal throw is sometimes reliable, but you've go to watch out for the mixups a la Cammy or Honda or Ken -- they will alternate between doing a throw and doing a high priority reversal type move (cannon spike, jab dp, buttbomb, etc).

[Ganelon]

SweetJV is right on the money in this issue. NKI proved with his data that hit stun and block stun were the exact same length, which initially discredited sacrifice throwing. However, he couldn't prove that the knockback from a blocked jump attack was equal to the knockback from a connected jump attack.

In fact, there seemed to be evidence on the contrary, which means that certain characters in certain circumstances may not be in range to get a free throw if they blocked that they otherwise would've received if they got hit.

[HeaTBlazn]

what does that motion do?

doin that motion will perform a shoryuken when the opponent is crossing over.

starting the shoryuken normally but ending it in the opposite direction because your facing the other way as the opponent crosses over.

[Jiu-hook]

I would not depend on this. :sweat:

Throws are instant in ST. Most jabs/shorts take 3-4 frames of start up animation before they hit.

If the thrower in within their prespective throwing range they will throw the throwee every single time during the start up frames of the counter jab/short.

Best bet is to reversal throw (if the thrower is within your throw range) or reverse invincible special.

This is exactly what I was going to post.

[runaround]

This is why sack-grabbing works:

(1) Your opponent has jumped in with a medium or heavy move and is expecting you to block it and go into either MEDIUM or HIGH STUN before grabbing you; but when you take the hit and go into LOW STUN and come out quicker than he expected, he is taken by surprise and is too slow to react to your grab.
(2) Your opponent has jumped in with a medium or heavy move and has judged his distance so that when his medium or heavy move is blocked, he's expecting you to go into either MEDIUM or HIGH KNOCK-BACK and is expecting to walk forward a little before grabbing you; but when you take the hit and go into LOW KNOCK-BACK, he is taken by surprise when you're actually closer to him than he expected and he is too slow to react to your grab.
(3) Both of the above at the same time.


And this is why and how sack-specials work:

(1) Same reasons as sack-grabbing.
(2) Your opponent has timed his jumping medium or heavy move as such that if you blocked it, your MEDIUM or HIGH STUN would last long enough so that he can safely land (and either link a ground move or try to grab you) before you come out of it; but if you take the hit, his timing isn't right for LOW STUN and you get a small window to special before he lands. (This doesn't apply to safe-jumping.)

Thanks. Quick question: why is it called sack grabbing? Sack short for sacrifice?

[Fulaani]

doin that motion will perform a shoryuken when the opponent is crossing over.

starting the shoryuken normally but ending it in the opposite direction because your facing the other way as the opponent crosses over.
oh wow, good to know.

[trinifella1]

Slightly unrelated but is there a way to make charging reversals go the correct way against crossups? Like the f,df,d,db+p motion for shotos.

Yea I think it works like this. Say you have Honda and you're on the left side. So you get knocked down and immediately start holding :l: (back) on the joystick, and the opponent is going for the cross up. At the point in the air where he is directly above you, he now switches to the left side and you're now on the right, and to pull of a Jab headbutt reversal, you have to immediately push :r: on the joystick (which now becomes back since you're on the right side), then quickly push :l: + jab. The reason you don't have to charge again once you switch sides is because you were charing when you were knocked down and it got stored once you immediately pushed :r: on the joystick. Could someone tell me if I'm right? Hope it wasn't too confusing to follow

[nothing]

Thanks for all the tips guys. Reversal throws plus keeping near the corner against Honda has really worked wonders. Also, getting a bit better at the game and getting better at keeping Honda out of throw range to begin with have helped a lot.

[ToshyBoy]

Good thread but still didnt stop me and everyone else in the room getting beat by a Blanka jumping in with LK or MK and comboing that into electricity immediately as he landed for a 2 hit combo. Over and over and over, jumping in and electrocuted. I just couldnt figure a way out.

If I ducked to charge then i was hit in the head and electrocuted as i was crouching. If i took the hit i got immediately electrocuted anyway and knocked to the floor, if i tried to parry the quick repeated jumps meant he was on me again immediately. Sounds easy to get out of but in my few goes i just couldnt get a grip on it with any of my characters, Ryu, Dee Jay, Guile and Dic.

In case i run into this spammer again can anybody suggest a way to get out of this trap with a few characters?

[zerodotjander]

Block the jump-in, block the electricity, and sweep him out of it.

[ToshyBoy]

Tried that. As soon as you come out of block stun he his already in the air continuing in a loop.

I mean fair play to him, im just trying to stop a similar thing happening in future and trying to work a way out. If thats the way he wants to play choosing the same character over and over again and doing the same thing over and over then good luck to him.

[downRupLYB]

What anti-air moves have you tried? If getting off a dragon punch or something is hard to time, what about just an anti-air normal?

[ToshyBoy]

I tried literally everything. The Blanka jump from the air is just too quick and you cant get out of block stun quick enough to get your anti air normal out. Dic standing HK, Slide, MP,HP all fail. Same with everybody else i tried, especially when trapped in the corner. The Blanka jump happens the instant he hits the floor in a loop. Im sure there is a way but without replicating the thing again i cant think of a way.

[trinifella1]

Yea Blanka's jump is pretty quick. A good anti-air with Dic to try is a straight up jumping strong

[Ouroborus]

Good thread but still didnt stop me and everyone else in the room getting beat by a Blanka jumping in with LK or MK and comboing that into electricity immediately as he landed for a 2 hit combo. Over and over and over, jumping in and electrocuted. I just couldnt figure a way out.

If I ducked to charge then i was hit in the head and electrocuted as i was crouching. If i took the hit i got immediately electrocuted anyway and knocked to the floor, if i tried to parry the quick repeated jumps meant he was on me again immediately. Sounds easy to get out of but in my few goes i just couldnt get a grip on it with any of my characters, Ryu, Dee Jay, Guile and Dic.

In case i run into this spammer again can anybody suggest a way to get out of this trap with a few characters?


first of all, why are you letting him get in on you? especially with ryu and deejay, blanka should have a hell of a time getting in on you.

blanka's main game is for him to get in and bite you to death. his throw is one of the best in the game and has a bigger throw range than all your characters

but lets say he does get in, all is not lost. you can still dragon punch/invincible anti air/super blanka between the j.lk and the grab. as for the electricity, if it doesnt combo, then it'll get beaten too by the dp/invincible move/super. if hes going for the j.lk into electricity combo and you blocked the j.lk, then you'll automatically block the electricity also

you can always try to counter throw him. someone correct me if i'm wrong but after landing from a jump, theres a few frames where you can't do anything.

heres a good example of how deejay vs blanka match should play out. its vanilla ST, but the concepts are the same. notice in the first round how blanka gets in, deejay gets bitten a lot but afterwards, blanka can't do much against his zoning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7emYOsKqWrk

[Duck Strong]

If your character has a quick jab or short you can use that to stuff regular throw attempts.

I've never seen anyone use jabs or any rapid fire attacks effectively against a properly executed tick. It doesn't work.

[lseelba]

Don't try to counter throw Honda's Ochio, because its range > yours.

[ToshyBoy]

Thanks Ouroborus, ill try some of this out later, agree re the zoning, i am getting better at keeping them out now thankfully.

Getting wiser by the day but these Blanka tick throwers are the most annoying players iv come accross. Im not saying they have no skill but i hate losing to that tactic all the time, especially in ranking matches.

Iv never come accross that same ticker again but similar. Its like they are playing Blanka like Zangief these days with the jump tick/bite combination.

[KYO84]

Is going for a reversal throw the best thing to do when trying to beat a command throw? I play Chun and have been getting owned by Hawk/Geif once knocked down and cornered, is going for a reversal short upkick my only option?

[4r5]

command throws beat normal throws

use UpKicks. maybe super?

[Silks]

Thanks. Quick question: why is it called sack grabbing? Sack short for sacrifice?

Sac is short for sacrifice yes.

And as for taking the hit of the crossover honda example... if the guy is looking to also hit confirm into a combo if you take the hit... then you're in trouble. I think SweetJV already said it: especially with Guile, don't get caught in that situation. This is the reason why, in at least vanilla ST, if Hawk or Gief knocked Guile down in the corner, it was basically game over for Guile. Safe jump-in hit confirm combos and tick command grabs. And since Honda's throw range is longer than Guile's... yeah, don't get caught in that situation hahaha.

[Bronzefist]

Good point about throwing a thrower though. What a lot of people don't realize is that in a lot of cases where they tick throw you, you can just throw them. The only way you won't be able to throw them is if they have a greater throw range than you and they are outside your throw range, and of course you can't out-throw a spinning piledriver or cyclone.




I'm still having difficulty with this. I play Dictator and I'm getting hit by tons of kneebash loops from Ken (among other setups from other characters). Dic is supposed to have a greater throw range than Ken, but I find it near impossible to reverse stuff like low short into knee bash or jumping jab into knee bash. Some Ken did nothing but low sort into knee bash on me earlier and I had a hell of a time escaping it. The only way I could escape it was to jump out of the knee bash, but he'd get his close standing forward kick instead and that would knock me out of the air.

So is my timing on the reversal throw shit? Or is guaranteed for Ken? He was doing this to me at point blank range so he was well within his own throw range (and mine). I *knew* the tick was coming and I wasn't able to reversal throw it once. Soooo whats up with this? I know Dic has other options but I'd like to know if I can truly reversal throw someone as mentioned here.

[downRupLYB]

I'm still having difficulty with this. I play Dictator and I'm getting hit by tons of kneebash loops from Ken (among other setups from other characters). Dic is supposed to have a greater throw range than Ken, but I find it near impossible to reverse stuff like low short into knee bash or jumping jab into knee bash. Some Ken did nothing but low sort into knee bash on me earlier and I had a hell of a time escaping it. The only way I could escape it was to jump out of the knee bash, but he'd get his close standing forward kick instead and that would knock me out of the air.

So is my timing on the reversal throw shit? Or is guaranteed for Ken? He was doing this to me at point blank range so he was well within his own throw range (and mine). I *knew* the tick was coming and I wasn't able to reversal throw it once. Soooo whats up with this? I know Dic has other options but I'd like to know if I can truly reversal throw someone as mentioned here.

Are you pressing just one punch button? Try piano inputs (pressing more than 1 punch button quickly in succession). Dic can reversal throw Ken. I play as Ken and it happens to me all the time... then again my tick throws aren't perfectly executed.

[AudioCG]

I'm still having difficulty with this. I play Dictator and I'm getting hit by tons of kneebash loops from Ken (among other setups from other characters). Dic is supposed to have a greater throw range than Ken, but I find it near impossible to reverse stuff like low short into knee bash or jumping jab into knee bash. Some Ken did nothing but low sort into knee bash on me earlier and I had a hell of a time escaping it. The only way I could escape it was to jump out of the knee bash, but he'd get his close standing forward kick instead and that would knock me out of the air.

So is my timing on the reversal throw shit? Or is guaranteed for Ken? He was doing this to me at point blank range so he was well within his own throw range (and mine). I *knew* the tick was coming and I wasn't able to reversal throw it once. Soooo whats up with this? I know Dic has other options but I'd like to know if I can truly reversal throw someone as mentioned here.

Your using fierce throw? And not getting it? I dont play Dictator much at all, so I dont know for sure, but I can, and have, several times counter thrown that exact setup from Ken with Guile, Sagat, Honda, Sim and Deejay.

Any Dictator players wanna chime in on this? (im pretty sure you can do it, just not 100%, having not done it myself.)

[Feng-Wei]

Best advice don't turtle!

[Mackdaddi]

So is my timing on the reversal throw shit?.

Em, no i'm sure it's not shit, but it sounds a bit off.I'm a solid dictator player, and if i know a tick throw is coming i'll at least be 50/50 to reverse it.If ken is using only his knee bash, which is only on his MK button and you're getting your timing right there's no reason you can't throw him as much or more than he's throwing you, because you have 2 buttons that can throw, you should have more chance than him, or at the very least an even chance if it comes down to you both activating a throw on the exact same frame.

NB- in case you don't know, the INSTANT his first tick makes contact with you before he goes for the knee bash, don't even wait for your block stun to finish, (you'll stay in block stun safely for a couple of frames first before you're throwable).Just start holding back immediately, and mashing BOTH HP and MP as fast as you can.I hold back rather than forward for a few reasons, usually cos it's fractionally more damage if you throw them according to capcom's data, and also as a charge character you'll keep your back charge if they fuck their timing up and you end up blocking something instead.

As a general rule with reversal anythings, If you're using a stick then make sure you're "piano-ing" to give yourself the best chance of getting some flavour of what you want.(If you don't know what piano-ing means, the SRK wiki will explain it nicely).Don't just rely on your timing with a single press of a single button at the right time.If you're on a pad then just mash the hell out of every single button that's capable of getting you what you want as fast and as randomly as you can, and be aware that special moves can be activated on button releases as well as button presses.

The only other thing i can think of that may be fucking you up is lag factors.If you think there might be an issue there then play around with adjusting your timing, and basically "Just try harder":wgrin:

Good luck.

EDIT: Just saw the last post date in this thread, i didn't mean to bump an old thread, so sorry if i've pissed off any mods.My Bad.

[AudioCG]

Its good to keep this thread around, tick throwing is the SF2 hurdle for alot of people, understanding the mechanics of the throwing system gets us all less hate mail from the shotonothrow crew.

[Python9109]

I know that for reversals of all sorts, mashing is not the answer, because the time inbetween button presses is several frames. But after pianoing your first throw when you think block or hit stun is over, should you mash your throw buttons or at least hit them again in order to tech your opponents throw, should you be unsuccessful with throwing them? On a number of occassions, I paino to reverse my opponent's tick, but because they have longer throw range, they get the throw, and because I hit my buttons first, I don't get the tech.

[Khiempossible]

continue mashing for techit if it's a normal throw, if it's a known hold, start jerking the stick diagonally between two opposite corners (fastest method for escape). if it's a command grab it won't matter (but if you're trying to counter grab a command grab then you're probably looking at a lost cause).

[The Osprey]

Is it technically possible to reversal a Hawk tick into 720?

[Khiempossible]

Is it technically possible to reversal a Hawk tick into 720?

of course.

except you won't know if it happened or not since thawk has no whiff animation and thus won't blow his super if he gets reversalled.

[JigglyNorris]

Is it technically possible to reversal a Hawk tick into 720?
Yes.:cybot:

[karatedan76]

How about for Hawk's and Gief's regular 360 after a tick? Is there only 1 frame to do a reversal, assuming the Hawk or Gief perfectly executes the 360 as soon as he can after the tick?

[gridman]

How about for Hawk's and Gief's regular 360 after a tick? Is there only 1 frame to do a reversal, assuming the Hawk or Gief perfectly executes the 360 as soon as he can after the tick?

yes. 1 frame. execute a move that is invincible on the first frame or off the ground on the first frame (from my understanding). also i guess you can reversal normal throw if they're in range but this rarely happens.

reversal for hawks 720 feels impossible.

edit: jump jab land 720 is like WOAH hard to reversal

[karatedan76]

yes. 1 frame. execute a move that is invincible on the first frame or off the ground on the first frame (from my understanding). also i guess you can reversal normal throw if they're in range but this rarely happens.

reversal for hawks 720 feels impossible.

Hmm I thought so. Geez that's 1/60th of a second window to do a reversal. Guess that's why people like Haru Tejyo's Gief dominates so many people. Perfect timing and execution. Thanks for the clarification.

[Python9109]

I would like to point out that the 1/60 of a second thing only applies if Gief or Hawk's timing is spot on. Against an equally skilled player, you should be able to get the reversal. The difficulty comes in when Gief mixes up his ticks, so you have a tougher time knowing on what tick to reversal and how long the block stun will be.

[Khiempossible]

I would like to point out that the 1/60 of a second thing only applies if Gief or Hawk's timing is spot on. Against an equally skilled player, you should be able to get the reversal. The difficulty comes in when Gief mixes up his ticks, so you have a tougher time knowing on what tick to reversal and how long the block stun will be.

It's not that hard for gief to be spot on. Gief has like 10 or 11 frames of active grab window on his grab + 6 piano input. whenever gief wants to grab he can make it happen.

[karatedan76]

Wouldn't doing the piano input after tick hitting someone make gief or hawk whiff the 360? It would seem so since the 360 motion would be executed as fast as possible with the piano input, and the opponent may not be out of block or hit recovery animation? Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Could someone please clarify. Thanks

[Khiempossible]

Wouldn't doing the piano input after tick hitting someone make gief or hawk whiff the 360? It would seem so since the 360 motion would be executed as fast as possible with the piano input, and the opponent may not be out of block or hit recovery animation? Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Could someone please clarify. Thanks

obviously some timing is involved. but because gief has an active throw window of 10 frames, even if his 360 comes out slightly early if the opponent becomes throwable during the next 10 frames he'll get thrown on the first possible one. At least this is how I understand it.

Hawk on the other hand in remix only has one active frame of throw, and that's why so many players have complained because now they HAVE to time it perfect. It's even more strict than the button up negative edge hawk timing they had before because hawk never threw unless the opponent was throwable. now hawk will get an early whiff grab that will NOT grab after it's initial frame.

kinda bunk really.

[FreshOJ]

I'll just add that this same topic was just covered in the "Rebalancing ST Remix" thread a couple of days ago. You can also read about it in...guess where...c'mon...guess...okay...my Cross-up, Link, and Combo FAQ! (I'm starting to get sick of how often I reference it, but I think it's that good.) Look for it on GameFAQs.com.

I remember quoting the Tick Throw write-up I did, but I can't remember where I posted it, so...just go to my FAQ. I talked about Tick Throws in the Combo section because most players (except most of the players here, of course) don't understand that you can only be thrown if you put yourself in the position to be thrown (ideally speaking).

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox360/file/939066/56195?rec=3813627981

[JigglyNorris]

With Hawk, you need to time it perfectly. He throws IMMEDIATELLY. Gief on the other hand has start-up frames to his SPD. That twitch he does are those frames. After a while though, you get so used to it the strict timing on Hawk's Typhoon won't even bother you. It doesn't bother me at least.

[karatedan76]

so if someone playing gief pulls out the 360 at the earliest possible time after a tick, the opponent only has 1 frame to do a reversal. However, in the case of Dhalsim for example, he really does not have a reversal move other than teleport, which does not attack. So is that his only escape move against a perfect 360'ing gief?

[Tschesae]

Yes but Sim doesn't need a good reversal move since his keep-away game is giving Gief already a lot of problems.

[ExArcadeChamp]

Does anyone know if theres a chart which tells you whos throw beats who or is there anyone willing to make one :P ?

Its just to asist those who want to learn new characters and their match ups.

For example, i just started playing Chun and i cannot reverse throw Vegas jump tic throw.
Problem is its laggy, so i can't tell if he out ranges Chun. And am i imagining things or are those with a longer throw range more susceptible to a low jab/short to break the tic throw ?
Although i know technically it shouldn't.

[FreshOJ]

Does anyone know if theres a chart which tells you whos throw beats who or is there anyone willing to make one :P ?

Its just to asist those who want to learn new characters and their match ups.

For example, i just started playing Chun and i cannot reverse throw Vegas jump tic throw.
Problem is its laggy, so i can't tell if he out ranges Chun. And am i imagining things or are those with a longer throw range more susceptible to a low jab/short to break the tic throw ?
Although i know technically it shouldn't.

Ok, I've heard it said that if two characters try to throw each other on the same frame, the throw with the longer throw range wins.

If that's true, then this link right here is all you need...

http://nki.combovideos.com/data.html

It's T.Akiba's SF2 Data page. On that page, you'll find a section on throw ranges for all of the characters.

But, just as a general tip, and I say this on my HDR Cross-up, Link, and Combo FAQ, too, a *reversal* throw or *reversal* special move with invincibility done on the last frame of hit/block stun will beat *any* tick attempt (save for the weird glitches that people mentioned in the "Rebalancing ST Remix" thread a few days ago) because it's done *one frame before* the attacker can throw you.

So, if you try for a reversal throw and you don't get one, your opponent wasn't in your throw range. Also, in your case, consider that most light attacks have 3-5 frames of startup. If you block an attack and then try to stop a throw attempt with one of those, you're giving up at least 3 frames in which you can be thrown. You can only do something like that if your opponent's throw range is shorter than yours *and* the move they set up the tick with pushes you outside of their throw range far enough that you have time to stuff their throw attempt.

[daveappen]

Ok, I've heard it said that if two characters try to throw each other on the same frame, the throw with the longer throw range wins.

If that's true, then this link right here is all you need...

http://nki.combovideos.com/data.html

It's T.Akiba's SF2 Data page. On that page, you'll find a section on throw ranges for all of the characters.

But, just as a general tip, and I say this on my HDR Cross-up, Link, and Combo FAQ, too, a *reversal* throw or *reversal* special move with invincibility done on the last frame of hit/block stun will beat *any* tick attempt (save for the weird glitches that people mentioned in the "Rebalancing ST Remix" thread a few days ago) because it's done *one frame before* the attacker can throw you.

So, if you try for a reversal throw and you don't get one, your opponent wasn't in your throw range. Also, in your case, consider that most light attacks have 3-5 frames of startup. If you block an attack and then try to stop a throw attempt with one of those, you're giving up at least 3 frames in which you can be thrown. You can only do something like that if your opponent's throw range is shorter than yours *and* the move they set up the tick with pushes you outside of their throw range far enough that you have time to stuff their throw attempt.





How can you reversal throw/special-move while you're still in hit/block stun (ie. on the last frame of hit/block stun)? If you execute it before you're actually out of block/hit stun, will it actually come out?

[Thelo]

How can you reversal throw/special-move while you're still in hit/block stun (ie. on the last frame of hit/block stun)? If you execute it before you're actually out of block/hit stun, will it actually come out?
Basically, if you hit the button on the exact frame where you come out of stun, you will transition directly from stun (not throwable) to doing a special move (also not throwable, for the right specials). So you should do the joystick motion while you're in stun, and hit the button right at the last frame of stun.