CvS2 : Kyo Thread

[Honky Tonk]

Hmm - there's no Kyo thread here? does this mean he's a bit of a duffer or what?

Well, regardless - I like to play him - nothing better than getting in your opponent's face and playing guessing games with his combos.

But - any experienced Kyos out there want to share? Anything from basic stuff to advanced is cool - pressure sequences, counteracting weaknesses, how to kill bloody Hibiki, etc..

(I'm in C groove, but don't let that make you hesitate)

[magnus]

I recently starte playing cvs2 again, Kyo is one of the characters that I picked up.

I'm playing him in a-groove, rc'ing his qcf kick move sets up free cc.
It is also very good on opponent wake up attacks, you really don't want to abuse it to much though because he can be punished if blocked.

His rc qcf punch move builds good meter quickly and is good for poking.

Just some basic stuff I wanted to share to jump start this thread.

[MCTek]

I prefer Kyo in K-groove, because 1) his supers aren't all that hot, except at lvl 3 and 2) his roll is pretty horrible and 3) he benefits a lot with low jump because of his jumping smash.

with K you can option select after a basic blocked combo of c.jab, c.strong, qcf+jab. If the opponent attack you get free JD meter, if he doesn't you can continue to poke.

his best poke is standing roundhouse IMO.

Best combo is c.strong -> qcf+forward, then dp+roundhouse.

you can use dp+short to advance sometimes, and it is faster than qcf + jab.

[Honky Tonk]

Hmm - RCing is way out of my depth for a while. I'm still catching up after SF2 Turbo.

Never even seen that combo, MCTek - I'm pretty much the only one I ever see playing Kyo (makes it tricky to learn fast!). I'll give it a go..

Here's a question:
Is there (long term) milage in his punch chains? The main reason I started using him is for these - I always was a fan of Fei Long.
So, I'm generally getting in close and varying which chain I go for - mainly switching the time I do the overhead, or staggering long chains of them (punch, punch, wait, punch, wait, punch, punch, blah), learning the patterns of the opponent, and sticking in a super when I think they'll go for me (I play C groove).

But - ultimately, will I need to abondon this? Or to put it another way, does the opponent have the edge in this kind of guessing game once the learning curve bottoms out a bit?
I have to admit, I don't use his kick specials very much at all. Mainly I'm using his j.RH or his magic elbow to get in and then just trying to stay in their face.

Hmm - another question ;)
I noticed that if you jump in and cancel s.FP into his punch chains, the second hit in the chain doesn't combo anymore. This is right, yeah? it's not just that the timing tightens up or anything? Obviously the enemy realises this quick since they hold block and find themselves blocking the last bit. Initially I'd super their counter, so now they block a little longer, and I start the guessing games from there.

What about poking? I seem to find myself using s.RH all the time. But still, I'm not finding much sucess in poking games. I'm thinking maybe I need a short jump to keep the pressure up..

[caliagent#3]

u should start using his kicks more. his most damaging combo is: j.hk,s.hk,qcf+hk (then do another hk), hcb+hk, or if u r in c-groove do lvl2 qcfx2mp,cancel into,qcf+hk (do another hk),hcb+hk. with the last hcb+hk u could do a dp or dp+hk instead.

[ALTANertive]

Massively damaging combo near/in corner:

C-groove full meter
Combo whatever you want into qcf+lk, qcb-hcf+mp, cancel into qcf+mk, qcb-hcf+P

[magnus]

mctek is right, his standing fk is his best poke.

if you are in grooves with the run option, then you could use his crouching strong to poke. It has good priority. His crouching roundhouse as well covers good distance when poking.

abuse his qcf punch move, it adds as a good poke to get in close.

[Dc1]

i just start using kyo and i'm using him in k groove can you guys post more on him strategy wise and combo wise

also does he have a move that puncish a blocked blanka ball ?

[HeaT]

Originally posted by MCTek
I prefer Kyo in K-groove, because 1) his supers aren't all that hot, except at lvl 3 and 2) his roll is pretty horrible and 3) he benefits a lot with low jump because of his jumping smash.

with K you can option select after a basic blocked combo of c.jab, c.strong, qcf+jab. If the opponent attack you get free JD meter, if he doesn't you can continue to poke.

his best poke is standing roundhouse IMO.

Best combo is c.strong -> qcf+forward, then dp+roundhouse.

you can use dp+short to advance sometimes, and it is faster than qcf + jab.

wtf i didnt even know that combo worked LOL tight shit...if it works...

and to punish blanka ball ummm...jd it then its easy to punish...you got k groove so you shoulnt have trouble doing that...

im outi

Roberth

[ALTANertive]

Originally posted by Dc1
also does he have a move that puncish a blocked blanka ball ?

Use qcf+HP, you can finish the entire "chain" or whatever you call it. Gotta time the first hit.

[Honky Tonk]

caliagent said:

"his most damaging combo is: j.hk,s.hk,qcf+hk (then do another hk), hcb+hk"

ok, so the first 4 hits, no problem. But then, after the double flying kick, no way can I hit with the choke... Am I supposed to be doing it soon after the 2nd flying kick as possible, or otherwise is there a specific position the enemy has to be in for it to land?

My most damaging is still the good old Cs.Fp XX qcf.Fp, hcb.Fp, f.Fp

You really need to be aware of your distance when flinging out your qcf.Fp (or with Lp) - can be nice to stick a s.Rh afterwards and repeat. The qcf.Fp moves you forward a good bit, you link some hits together to push the enemy away, and keep going. As long as you use the right strength punch to move you forward you can control your distance pretty good and the qcf punches have good priority, at least.

I must say though, that with this kind of ground game I often find myself on the wrong end of a poke with superior priority (maybe playing Cammy has spoiled me in this area ;) ). Still, I love my magic elbow (Jd.jp).

[Dc1]

so can you guys go into more detail about pressuring and advancing with the flaming punch moves

which version is good for advancing , comboing , lockdown

i find kyo can rush down pretty good with running jap , i want to know how i can ad the flaming punches to his rush down game too

how punishable are his flaming punch moves? how do i continue to pressure after my opponent block it , what's the best way to get back on offence after they block the flaming punches ?


also with is his best jump-in.low jump moves (besdies the d.fp)?
which one is better jumping/lowjumpins mp or fp ?

thanks for helping out

[CrimsonDisaster]

K Kyo, raged:

j.HK, s.HK XX QCF+HK K, DP+MK, QCB HCF+P(hold), let go of P.

Around 12000 damage. Works with other Grooves, K just hits the hardest.

[caliagent#3]

Originally posted by Honky Tonk
caliagent said:

"his most damaging combo is: j.hk,s.hk,qcf+hk (then do another hk), hcb+hk"

ok, so the first 4 hits, no problem. But then, after the double flying kick, no way can I hit with the choke... Am I supposed to be doing it soon after the 2nd flying kick as possible, or otherwise is there a specific position the enemy has to be in for it to land?




After the 2nd flying kick, when u land on the ground u enter the hcb+hk, and he has to be in the corner for the hcb+hk to connect. If he is not in the corner then do a dp+hk or a regular dp. Make sure u are using hk for the qcf+hk move. if u use lk it won't work

[Kamui]

There isnt any reason to do this combo. HCB + K does just as much damage as a fierce Oniyaki(F,D,DF + P), but without the stun damage, and a roundhouse Twightlight ride(F,D,DF + K) does more damage and stun damage then a fierce DP does in most situations.

Jump in HK, HK, QCF + HK,HK, Toward + fierce, QCF + LP, HCB + LP, LP OTG is actually the most damaging superless combo Kyo has, however it does a less stun damage then if you ended the combo with DP + K, so your better off doing this combo as a round ender, after there dizzy, or when your in a position where you know you havent done enough previous stun damage to dizzy them.

Stun damage is important. Kyo deals more damage and stun damage with superless combos then any other chr in CvS2. He can end a losing round with 2 well placed(lucky) combos that lead to a dizzy, which means game over.

Originally posted by Honky Tonk
caliagent said:

"his most damaging combo is: j.hk,s.hk,qcf+hk (then do another hk), hcb+hk"

[Robyrt]

C-Kyo does lots of damage due to qcf+K. Try any level 2 super xx qcf+HK,HK,dp+MK, qcb,hcf+P. For humiliation you can use qcf,qcf+LP as 100% anti-air. Note that qcf+HP has a small auto-parry window at the beginning of the move. A-Kyo has a scrubby ground CC because of his df+HK, which allows him to finish with lvl1 Final Showdown.

[Dc1]

does this combo work , c.rk, link into qcb, hcf +p (level 3) ?

my friend told me this combo , but i'm having problem doing it , its much like the geese swweep into raging storm combo

any tip on timing ?

[Gandido]

K-Kyo is such bullshit, according to hella people. You can usually do a low strong after a JD, and any close low strong leads to qcf + forward, forward, which sets up the juggles.

As for his most damaging combo on the corner without supers, it really is the one that Kamui said:

j.rh, s.rh, qcf + forward or rh, twds + fierce, ground punch chain. With rage, this does about as much as his level 3 super. Someone already mentioned his killer combo with a lvl 3 in the corner, but you can add a ground punch after it.

IMO, Kyo's groove order is K/A/N/P/C/S. I put P above C because he gets so many openings to land close hits that he can constantly dizzy people and do juggles, plus he keeps low jumps. S-Kyo is really good because you get a 100% anti air while you are red and his dodge kick is really good. C-Kyo is hella overrated. N is much better because he can keep in your face all the time, plus when you corner them, bust a stock and do an alpha counter, land and do a lvl 3 super. This usually makes people go "Whoa..." and you are all like :).

Kyo's low jab has the same frame advantage as Ryu's. Use this for run cancelling. You can keep in their face by randomly buffering one of these or a low strong/fierce into rekkas. Ryu has better tools to keep people stuck, but he can't get much damage off one hit without meter. Kyo can, and you MUST use that as your fear factor.

[Dc1]

Originally posted by Gandido
j.rh, s.rh, qcf + forward or rh, twds + fierce, ground punch chain. With rage, this does about as much as his level 3 super. Someone already mentioned his killer combo with a lvl 3 in the corner, but you can add a ground punch after it.



can explain how the ground punches work? which punch do you use ? and how's the timing for the ground punches after the qcb,hcf+p level three ?

[Bogardalicious]

Thanks Honkeytonk for posting this. I asked for a Kyo thread too... but the moderator closed my thread and DIDNT fix the problem thanks again.

[Honky Tonk]

Originally posted by Dc1
so can you guys go into more detail about pressuring and advancing with the flaming punch moves

which version is good for advancing , comboing , lockdown

i find kyo can rush down pretty good with running jap , i want to know how i can ad the flaming punches to his rush down game too

how punishable are his flaming punch moves? how do i continue to pressure after my opponent block it , what's the best way to get back on offence after they block the flaming punches ?


Well, this is not coming from a Kyo expert, not by a long shot, but here's my take on this. I must warn you that I have the very same questions about Kyo, also - so this isn't strictly an answer, more an opening for discussion ;)

Anyway. I recently tried Kyo in N. I've always played in C (no run), so running and short jumps in general are pretty new to me. But yeah, I found his running japs to be useful - though the same can be said for most characters in a run groove, I suspect. I think a specific advantage with Kyo is that you can cancel your punches into flaming punches, which move you closer to your opponent, and even if they attempt to counter, you'll usually exchange at least. Always cancel your punches into flaming punches - that way you get a free follow up whether the punch is blocked or actually hits. Of course, if it hits, you can continue with the punch chain.

Then, when I'm in close I'll use jabs at close range, forward kicks at medium, and good old s.Rh at long poke range. Like I said before I never really used his special kicks, so I'm not sure about them. Though I think the reason I stayed away from them was because they seemed to leave you vunerable if you didn't hit (or even if they were blocked). At least, you can chain together some hits at closeish range, which will open the distance out a little more. Then you'll be ready to use the flaming punches again to get closer. This is what I generally do with Kyo. Be careful not to get too close with the flaming punches (especially Fp) or you'll get punished. Also, I'll stick in a level 1 punch super (erm, the qcf, qcf P one) when I start to predict when the opponent will attempt a counter. You can do some baiting with this, also - throw in a fierce flaming punch that's a little closer than normal, and just block the counter. Then block a little more until you can reset the fight. Next time, do the flaming punch in the same way (so, closer than normal, like a mistake), but instead of blocking rip out your super. Stuff like that works because you have a good few options at this range, and can play mind games quite easily - say by varying when you do the overhead elbow in the lp, mp punch chains, or by halting the chain prematurely, pausing, doing it again - and then also by doing the first two punches, then jab, and throw them. For me it's all about trying to find a new pattern there to trick your opponent, or playing games with repeating the same pattern, etc, etc - you know, standard beat-em-up game mind tricks.

Obviously, if your enemy doesn't get scared by this (in my experience they usually don't, since they've played my Kyo right from when I first started using him they watched all my tactics evolve and know they can ride it out waiting for a mistake :( ), they'll usually just wait for a chance to hit and go for the knockdown, or they'll have a good roll and time it better than your flaming punch, or they'll jump away to long distance and force you to approach again. Each time the fight gets reset, and in my experience it's this time where Kyo seems to fall a little short. Once your staring at each other, at long or too-long range, with most characters I feel like my Kyo is at a disadvantage. His pokes aren't great range or amazing priority, really, I've never found his dash all that useful and his roll (I'm in C-groove here) is cack. Like I said, I'm trying to switch to N-groove. That'd help. I'm sure his little jump D.Fp would be a lovely move. Or just even the ability to small jump, and especially run close.

Anyway, it's at this time I'd get screwed up. I'll then spend my time working a way back in. Kyo has a very nice magic elbow in J.Jp - beats most things in the air (even Benimaru's magic knee) and stays out for a long time. Also I quite like his flying RH, as long as you're above your enemy this is a nice kick. But usually I get smacked around at this point - I need run, I suppose. Also, since my opponents sense this in my play too, once I manage to get close they just do everything they can to reset the fight. And that's not toooo tricky, usually. What I really need is to tighten up my pressure game and try to close the holes which allow people to escape to greater range. Maybe his kick specials would be cool here since I could hopefully stop their jumping away so easily.. is that what people would usually do?

OK, so, main thing is for me - get in close. Once you're in close - try to stay there as long as possible. While you're still there - maintain a nice flurry of little pokes, flaming punches, occasional cheeky throw, and the odd super to counter. If they jump away - try to dash back in close.

I've been doing the j.Rh, s.Rh xx qcf.Rh, Rh, Dp.Rh combo - superb damage. You can try cancelling your poking s.Rh all the time in the hope of catching the double flying kick - and pretty much anything hits afterwards, even standing Fp. But, if you're blocked then prepare for some punishment.

[Kamui]

Yes this does work, you can also start a CC in that situation. Its fairly easy, just do orochinagi the second he recovers from his low roundhouse. It isnt very usefull however. Low roundhouse has to hit extremely close to land the super, and from that range there isnt any reason to hit low roundhouse.
.
Originally posted by Dc1
does this combo work , c.rk, link into qcb, hcf +p (level 3) ?

my friend told me this combo , but i'm having problem doing it , its much like the geese swweep into raging storm combo

any tip on timing ?

[Kamui]

As much as I like doing it, in most cases I would reccomend not going for the ground hit after Orochinagi. To land it you have to let go of Orochinagi after the aura hits extremely early, in which case the super frequently misses 1 or even 2 hits. You are also completely open if something goes wrong and the ground hit misses.

I hate to sound really anal, but since it was mentioned, Kyo's low LP has 1 less frame advantage then Ryu's does, so it isnt quite as good, but yes, generally he has one of the better low jabs.

3 frame start up, +6 advantage

Originally posted by Gandido
Someone already mentioned his killer combo with a lvl 3 in the corner, but you can add a ground punch after it.

Kyo's low jab has the same frame advantage as Ryu's. Use this for run cancelling. You can keep in their face by randomly buffering one of these or a low strong/fierce into rekkas. Ryu has better tools to keep people stuck, but he can't get much damage off one hit without meter. Kyo can, and you MUST use that as your fear factor.

[Chachaman]

I also just started using Kyo

Well its probably been mentioned but I’ll say it again his QCF+Kx2 is a good move, plus you can start juggling off of it.

Its pretty cool you can do stuff like s.HK, QCF+Kx2, "fire ball" uppercut.

[Gandido]

Originally posted by Kamui
As much as I like doing it, in most cases I would reccomend not going for the ground hit after Orochinagi. To land it you have to let go of Orochinagi after the aura hits extremely early, in which case the super frequently misses 1 or even 2 hits. You are also completely open if something goes wrong and the ground hit misses.

I hate to sound really anal, but since it was mentioned, Kyo's low LP has 1 less frame advantage then Ryu's does, so it isnt quite as good, but yes, generally he has one of the better low jabs.

3 frame start up, +6 advantage



WTF. IIRC, the guidebook said it has the same. Better get Gunter or an expert or anyone with this guide to confirm :(

[Kamui]

This information comes directly from the same guide book.

Originally posted by Gandido


WTF. IIRC, the guidebook said it has the same. Better get Gunter or an expert or anyone with this guide to confirm :(

I have started to play kyo in p-groove, due to lack of comp i have no idea what fights are really hard for him to handle.

Any characters that are really hard to fight with him?

[AcidicEnema]

Okay I stopped playing CvS2 quite a few months back, but before that I played pretty extensively and Kyo was my main character. Just a few things.

1. His 'best' (most useful) combo is c.LK>c.MP>QCF MK>K> DP+HK. Learn to empty jump> low short that shit. Connecting this combo twice leaves weaker opponents exactly 1 dizzy point short of a dizzy, and standard opponents 1 heavy attack short of a dizzy.

2. His 3 main pokes are c.roundhouse (distance poke- key anti-Sagat, Blanka poke, it's also one of his main ways of knocking down the opponent), s.roundhouse (priority and speed: key defensive poke against M.Bison scissors, don't use against, Yamazaki), and short jump roundhouse.

3. My favourite groove with him is K groove, for pretty much the same reasons mentioned by the first poster. Kyo really needs just defend or parrying to stay in certain matches (e.g, against Vega). Also, short jumping and running are both very important for his poking game.

4. Optimal ratio is Ratio 1 IMO. This is because Kyo's primary strength is the ease at which he can dizzy opponents and his killer wake up games. Which really means that if you can get a good series of meaty combos going on, he'll win, Ratio 1 or not. Save the ratio points for characters who need the extra damage for their cheesy pokes.

5. Now I'll talk about Kyo's greatest strength- his wake up games. When an opponent is getting up, there are a lot of options that he has- but the 2 most powerful ones are: a) empty jump into low short combo and b) short jump cross up with d.HP

a) is pretty self-explanatory. Don't forget that you can also cross up empty jump.

b) is good because it beats or trades with all wake up anti-airs, knocks down if it connects (so you get a free wake up again) and sets up offensive options if it's blocked (short jump again, tick throw, jab short strings, etc). This shit if seriously good if you can get it down pat, but the timing for it is quite precise.

Pls keep in mind that I stopped playing CvS 2 shortly after Roll-Cancelling was discovered, so I may not be aware of how much RCing has changed the nature of the game.

[MCTek]

RC his dp+short kick sounds pretty good, i want to start testing just throwing out dp+short kick randomly and see how it fares.

[tactics108]

i could be wrong, but i thought you couldn't link a c.mp from a c.wk? maybe on a counter hit though
i know you can insert a c. jab in between and make it work but then i think the qcf+k,k will only connect in the corner.
also dpm+short does come out fast but the recovery seems to suck, it's pretty punishable if blocked iirc.

[AcidicEnema]

"i could be wrong"

yes.

[tactics108]

yeah, you were right about the link, i just never really used it but have since began using it with empty low jumps as suggested.

i'm sure i saw it mentioned elsewhere but in case any of you didn't know d/f+rh goes under sagat's low tiger. i never gave it much thought myself until i did this by accident the other day(i was expecting a high tiger)

does anyone use this often or is it impractical?

[yk808]

does anything juggle after his qcf wk, wk? I heard you can jump after them, then activate cc, then midair rhx2, then continue, but other than that does anything work?

[RagingStormX]

A level 3 super, or activate your CC. Also his two strongest combos are in C-groove. (by corner) J.fp, s.fp, qcf+mk, lvl 2 serpent wave, qcf+mk, lvl 1 serpent wave. Or J.fp, s.fp, qcf+mk, dp+mk, lvl 3 serpent wave. Those combos hurt, and the first one usually stuns if you hit your opponent before you do the combo, or if they have 60 stun.

[Dc1]

i notice that his qcf+fp have a weird property of nullifying hits like that of eagle's counter or chang's foward ball special

I have done this by accident several time and i'm sure that it works but I haven't really dig any deeper into it

can someone explain this nullifying property of his fp flame punch if I caound do it everytime then Kyo would become a lot better at advancing

also i use k

[HeaT]

Originally posted by Gandido


IMO, Kyo's groove order is K/A/N/P/C/S. I put P above C because he gets so many openings to land close hits that he can constantly dizzy people and do juggles, plus he keeps low jumps. S-Kyo is really good because you get a 100% anti air while you are red and his dodge kick is really good. C-Kyo is hella overrated. N is much better because he can keep in your face all the time, plus when you corner them, bust a stock and do an alpha counter, land and do a lvl 3 super. This usually makes people go "Whoa..." and you are all like :).



im just curious why A and N above P...

P groove kyo is straight rediculous 1 parry on the ground = b&b EVERYTIME and if you have super its B&B super...low jump is hella good, only thing p groove kyo doesnt have is run...which isnt really that neccessary with parry mind games...

IMO K/P are his best grooves...

im outi

Roberth

[subzero]

Originally posted by yk808
does anything juggle after his qcf wk, wk? I heard you can jump after them, then activate cc, then midair rhx2, then continue, but other than that does anything work?

Orochinagi (qcb-hcb+p). That's all. If you want to juggle, use the qcf+fwd, fwd version.

[RagingStormX]

That qcf+fp has an auto-parry at start-up, that is that there is a certain number of frames in the move that if you get hit it parries it, so yes it does it everytime. Just learn the timing of auto-parry, it's good against poking characters.

[tactics108]

can you safely use the qcf+fp, as gc/chip?
i think the time frame for the auto parry is to small to use in reaction, it would be much harder than rcing which are good with his other qcf+jp/sp chains

of course if you could safely incorporate it in a gc pattern then that gives it a decent use outside of a landed combo, whch is the only time i use that chain if at all, because ofcourse kyo has far better combos at his disposal. just my opinion.

[50mOrEcEnTz]

i was looking at the super opera results and i saw a lot of k-groove kyo....what makes him so good in this groove?

in a nutshell im asking what should u small jump with? after a JD what should/could u use that combos (im guessing c.mp, into the three hit combo move)? what are his best pokes?

[tactics108]

small jump with d+fp is good as it knocks down, this sets up the opponent for empty low jumps into a combo.

it has already been mentioned that after a jd you can sometimes go into a c.sp->qcf+fk,fk then the juggle of your choice depending on the situation, i'm pretty sure most of the variaions have been mentioned. ofcourse this can often mean dizzying the opponent or close to it and big damage either way you look at it.

[DarkNall]

Originally posted by tactics108
small jump with d+fp is good as it knocks down, this sets up the opponent for empty low jumps into a combo.

it has already been mentioned that after a jd you can sometimes go into a c.sp->qcf+fk,fk then the juggle of your choice depending on the situation, i'm pretty sure most of the variaions have been mentioned. ofcourse this can often mean dizzying the opponent or close to it and big damage either way you look at it.

Eh, maybe for forward kick version of qcf+k, k if at the correct distance, but I don't think the the fierce version will connect...well, it'll connect; just not as a combo.

[Kamui]

The auto guard window is 4 frames long. Barely there at all. If your in a groove that allows you to RC theres no reason to ever do it, in K or P however it has a few limited uses. Even still, the autogaurd is there. Knowing what situations to use it in helps. Now that i think about it, I rarely dont get the autoguard.

Originally posted by tactics108
i think the time frame for the auto parry is to small to use in reaction, it would be much harder than rcing which are good with his other qcf+jp/sp chains

[tactics108]

Originally posted by DarkNall


Eh, maybe for forward kick version of qcf+k, k if at the correct distance, but I don't think the the fierce version will connect...well, it'll connect; just not as a combo.

yes, fk=forward kick


The auto guard window is 4 frames long. Barely there at all. If your in a groove that allows you to RC theres no reason to ever do it, in K or P however it has a few limited uses. Even still, the autogaurd is there. Knowing what situations to use it in helps. Now that i think about it, I rarely dont get the autoguard.


i agree, that's why i was wondering if it is safe to use in gc strings or to chip.

i.e. which part of the chain is safest to stop on when it gets blocked?

the way i figure it would work is like opponent blocks cr.sk,cr.jp,cr.sp--slight delay qcf+fp where the auto-gaurd will nullify their attempt to poke you back in the delay. . . is that right?

i also sometimes use this when my opponent is waking up

can you explain some other good uses, because i rarely use this move outside of combos and would like to incorporate it more.

[Kamui]

In no way is it completely safe during block patterns. From max range you usually want to stop at the first hit if its blocked, any closer and you should probably always do the second segment. Even then, it is in no way safe. Even though the second hit recovers fairly quickly, the block stun on the second hit is about as long as a light attacks, he is deffinately open. I believe the opening/recovery is 10 frames long if I remember correctly(not sure I do).

The only factors that keep you from getting punished is the idea and fear that you just may complete the rest of the chain and hit them if they try anything, and doing the move from the safest range.

when it comes to block patterns your better off doing R.E.D which is safer from the right ranges(low strong x 2-->REDkick, low short, close standing roundhouse-->REDkick). In the corner this is an ok way to bait normals and land counter hit jab Oniyaki-->lvl 3 orochinagi, or to go for more extensive block patterns when they are looking for the Oniyaki. Note that chrs with normals that come out in 3 frames or less with really good range can punish Kyo off a blocked R.E.D kick. I really dont recommend doing it very often.

Good situations to do QCF + HP? There isnt anything abusable about this move, but, in grooves with mobility problems, QCF + fierce is a decent way to move around and get into the ranges Kyo wants to be. Theres a lot of anticipation involved but doing it in situations vs chrs that throw fireballs at midrange during extensive ground games is decent. Going strait into it after a blocked low forward or low roundhouse that pushed them just out of sweep range, people tend to hit a button during the wind up or try to move back into their "business" range in which case usually results in a hit. VS Sagat the above seems to work fairly well becuase under those conditions the only thing Sagats seem to do from that range, throw a tiger shot, attempt to hit fierce during the wind up, etc, can all be autogaurded.

Never do it against chrs with really good and fast low hitting normals with lots of range(yamazaki, Geese, etc). Usually these chrs or going to hit those normals everytime they see you move into range. QCF + Hp does not autogaurd vs low attacks, or atleast not most of them. Some exceptions are low attacks that are fairly high off the ground, like Terry or Iori's low roundhouse.



Originally posted by tactics108

i agree, that's why i was wondering if it is safe to use in gc strings or to chip.

i.e. which part of the chain is safest to stop on when it gets blocked?

the way i figure it would work is like opponent blocks cr.sk,cr.jp,cr.sp--slight delay qcf+fp where the auto-gaurd will nullify their attempt to poke you back in the delay. . . is that right?

i also sometimes use this when my opponent is waking up

can you explain some other good uses, because i rarely use this move outside of combos and would like to incorporate it more.

[DarkNall]

Originally posted by tactics108


yes, fk=forward kick





i agree, that's why i was wondering if it is safe to use in gc strings or to chip.

i.e. which part of the chain is safest to stop on when it gets blocked?

the way i figure it would work is like opponent blocks cr.sk,cr.jp,cr.sp--slight delay qcf+fp where the auto-gaurd will nullify their attempt to poke you back in the delay. . . is that right?

i also sometimes use this when my opponent is waking up

can you explain some other good uses, because i rarely use this move outside of combos and would like to incorporate it more.

Err..my bad. Guess I read it wrong.

[tactics108]

thanks alot for taking the time to answer my question Kamui i really appreciate it.




Err..my bad. Guess I read it wrong.

not a problem at all! that kind of stuff is bound to happen.

[Nokato]

Well, its a kyo thread. No one really posted about A Kyo but I'll give it a try I used him alot in tournys myself.

As anyone would guess Kyo has alot of RC setups into CC that are pretty good but mostly Kyo's best CC is his AA CC which:

Activate CC: Strong DPXXD/Df Roundhouse (rep 6) into hcb+ Rh into qcb hcf + punch.

Setups into cc: (Corner) Crouch Jab, Stand RoundhouseXXqcf+ Forward Kick 2x into jap DP then activate:.....

other links into qcf+ Forward Kick: short+strong, Jab+Fierce

You can also use short into qcf+short kick but its not damaging as the previous link I put.

Also RC (AA) qcf+ forward makes for good midscreen AACC setups

more later.