Was returning to Cammy's old inputs a mistake?

[DanTheTimid]

So as you've probably read by now the inputs for Cammy's moves in SF4 have been revealed and Cammy's player friendly quarter circle moves of STHD are gone and replaced by her old half circle and 270 degree motions that made her nearly unplayable (at least with consistency) for the average gamer. There are a handful of old school Cammy players out there who were probably happy to hear this, they are either naturally gifted with inhuman reflexes or spent years in training to pull off her moves consistently, and so now they once again have a rather significant edge over the average player who would want to try to run Cammy. As for me... not so much.

I've always liked Cammy, the art style, the shoto-ish but uniquely her own fighting style, and just the fact she wasn't all that popular and I like to play what others aren't playing. That said, I never maned her in any fighting game before STHD because as much as I wanted to, all I could ever do with any consistency was cannon drill and cannon spike so her game play got pretty boring pretty quickly and I hated knowing I wasn't using her to her full potential, not truly representing her. Then STHD came out and while Cammy is still considered by most to be bottom tier I quickly made her my main based soley on her game play which I found incredibly fun. It hadn't really changed, I simply could now actually spinning back fist and hooligan when I wanted to making them viable tactics in real matches. I could now read advice for her and actually put it into action, I could now feel like I was really representing her and playing her how she was intended to be played.

I haven't played SF4 yet so I don't know for sure how bad things will be again, but just looking at those old inputs makes me shudder and is eating away at the excitement I once had for running her and playing this game. Why on earth did they feel it necessary to make Cammy's true game play, the game play that might never be top tier strong but was incredibly fun, available to such a small number of the player community again. Yes STHD spoiled me, but it made me realize that her moves didn't NEED to be overly complex, that she could still feel very unique based on how unique her moves worked with out needing to have unnecessarily complex inputs (and they truly are unnecessary with the quarter circle motions unused for anything).

What do you all feel, do you feel returning Cammy's old inputs was a mistake, or do you have some justification (beyond the fact that a lot of old school gamers already have spent a lot of time perfecting them and would be annoyed to have that effort not carry over to this game) for going back to her more obnoxious move inputs?

[bosshogx]

I was pissed when I saw they changed them back. I mean really, there is no logical reason for the change back to the Tiger Knee motion (which ironically is still done as a dragon punch motion). I've been enjoying the hell out of Cammy and Fei in HD Remix, but these old motions are so absurd that I don't know if I'll main them at all.

[denshuu]

The old inputs were horrible, but on top of opting to go with that command for the hooligan combo, they slowed the move down to the point that it's hardly useful at all. During the 1up Game Night a few days back, one of the players commented that he managed to hooligan over a tiger shot, but was still hit with a tiger uppercut before being able to execute a hooligan throw.

I guess the (barely) silver lining is that it's not a move you'd ever want to use anyway, so at least you can be sure you won't accidentally use it. But a big part of the fun of playing Cammy for me was being able to incorporate the move into my playstyle. It just looks great, and it feels good to land it on an opponent.

I'm hoping there will at least be some opportunity to make it useful. I'm thinking maybe a Cannon Spike, FADC, EX Hooligan throw would work, but it'll take a shit ton of practice to even get that combo to come out thanks to the tiger knee input. Maybe it'll get fun once we've mastered that input.

[Mariodood]

Yes, everybody likes the STHD motion, but keep in mind, that one was made by David Sirlin, not by Capcom. Also, the reason Hooligan combo is so hard in ST is because Cammy doesn't have many pre-jump frames. She has so few that even the slightest delay in your input will result in a jump.

In SF4 it will be different because the game is considerably slower. I imagine that doing a Hooligan combo will be about as hard as doing an SPD..i.e. not that hard.

[Shinkuu Tatsumaki]

I don't mind it. Though I don't get why Sagat's TK stayed DP motion.

[Windsagio]

Yes, everybody likes the STHD motion, but keep in mind, that one was made by David Sirlin, not by Capcom. Also, the reason Hooligan combo is so hard in ST is because Cammy doesn't have many pre-jump frames. She has so few that even the slightest delay in your input will result in a jump.

So wait, because someone else thought of an improvement its not worth doing? I hope thats not Capcoms thinking, because its bass-ackwards.




I was really worked up about this for a while, but given that the hooligan and the backfist are useless (or seem to be anyways), I'd rather be outraged about that. Its a bad motion, but doable.

Also, it doesn't double up with the spinning backfist anymore, so that at least is good.

[*Onslaught*]

Inputs are much easier to do in SF4, so it's not like it'll be as hard to do like in ST.

[dodgers2213]

I don't mind it. Though I don't get why Sagat's TK stayed DP motion.

good point, why the fuck did Sagat keep his DP tiger knee motion?

If anything, they could have made Hooligan DP motion too...think Akuma

Its just sad on how they did this shit. Slow backfist (her armor break :annoy:) and Slow Hooligan. We'll probably have to wait until the next version of SF4 for them to simplify motions or fixing the backfist/hooligan.
I wish they would have made her EX Dive kick an armor break

[limitedE]

Well, SF4's motions are supposed to be rather forgiving anyway. We shouldn't be too upset until we give it a try. Yes, the motion is unfriendly and hd remix made her a lot easy to play, but most of us haven't had a chance to try it on SFIV yet, never mind actually taking her apart.
The slow backfist and slow hooligan is much more of a problem than the command for it. I hope that she's still playable.

[FatalDmg]

I've been playing SF IV quite often as of late and I can say that the controls, once used to them, are very easy and inputs aren't too difficult to perform. I used Dictator last night and the inputs were quick.. I used Ken and Sagat and I found the controls to be smooth coming out.

If anything, I doubt there will be any problems getting used to the old Cammy. I'm looking forward to the challenge:wgrin:

[Kersey]

The TK motion comes out like butter. This isn't ST.

[Jigsaw]

So wait, because someone else thought of an improvement its not worth doing? I hope thats not Capcoms thinking, because its bass-ackwards.

As far as Capcom Japan are concerned, STHD doesn't exist, pretty much. They had no involvement in the development of it and they seem to have no interest whatsoever in releasing it either. Regardless of what you think of changes or additions made in STHD, it should come as no surprise to anyone that none of it is present in SF4 (or indeed anything not headed by Capcom USA).

[Windsagio]

I've been playing SF IV quite often as of late and I can say that the controls, once used to them, are very easy and inputs aren't too difficult to perform. I used Dictator last night and the inputs were quick.. I used Ken and Sagat and I found the controls to be smooth coming out.


lol, wait. All your examples don't use TK motions!


As far as Capcom Japan are concerned, STHD doesn't exist, pretty much. They had no involvement in the development of it and they seem to have no interest whatsoever in releasing it either. Regardless of what you think of changes or additions made in STHD, it should come as no surprise to anyone that none of it is present in SF4 (or indeed anything not headed by Capcom USA).


The thing that tends to get people (and used to get me) is that the HDR changes are simply better than the ST/SF4 way of doing them. Its easy to get frustrated when you see a game and think 'wow this could have been better!'

Its perfectly reasonable that lost potential/accessability is frustrating to people. The game will do better without these 'lets make it like ST just because' changes, and I think we all want it to do better.

[Kayin]

Hell, even her CvS2 motions would have been acceptable. I don't mind the tigerknee motion, the problem is hooligan and spinning backfist overlapping.

[Kayin]

http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2009/jan/18/cammy-street-fighter-4-character-guide/

Nevermind, spinning backfist is HCB+P now, so I don't see the problem.

[Ahrezmendi]

I would've preferred they used the HD Remix controls, but I don't see these ones being too bad to get used to.

The main problem I see is with the spinning backfist being HCB, which will make it more difficult (for me) initially to use it as a potential response to fireballs. Hooligan returning to it's old scheme could be annoying, but I've never found hooligan to be *that* useful anyway.

[Kayin]

Hooligan is really good in STHD IMO, not so much CvS2. (Like she needed it.)

[dumpsterdiver]

I feel sorry for dpad players, but honestly a tiger knee is no big deal on a stick, nor is a hcb. I don't see Zangief players complaining that they don't get the hcb forward spd or the double hcb forward super/ultra.

[denshuu]

You are kidding yourself if you seriously think that a TK motion is easier than a DP motion on any controller.

[Windsagio]

actually, htats a good point. They should toss out TK motions for the pad players, if nothing else. I have a stick, but the idea of doing that on an xbox controller gives me the shivers!

[Svengali]

Wow, I'm really glad someone made this post. Honestly, the news is depressing to me. I grew up playing Street Fighter but I was nowhere near hardcore. I was never able to really get into any of the other characters and ended up sticking to tried and true shoto, Ken. I do love playing Ken, but when I got STHD I heard about the new controls and decided to experiment with some characters.

I tried out Cammy and I found her a LOT of fun. Like the OP described, she has a kind of quirky but shoto-ish gameplay and that fit me perfectly. The fact her commands weren't updated with the STHD ones seems to work against the main idea of SF4 which was bringing back old SF players and making the game more accessible to new players. Wouldn't the new updated commands from STHD work perfectly towards that goal? I can't speak for anyone else, but STHD's mission was a success for me.

In any case, when I found out the news I was upset but I said I'd commit to mastering her moves anyways, fine, they're harder, I'll work on it. But then I hear the moves themselves aren't even worth using and it's just like a kick in the balls.

Is Cammy going to blow in SF4? I don't understand the logic in slowing down Cammy when they always leave Sagat in god tier in whatever game he's in. STHD really hit the balance nail on the head, I was hoping to see SF4 make use of what STHD did right.

[free1up]

The thing that really gets to me is that they got me all hopped up with Cammy's new qcf motion in HD remix and then BAM just like that they change it back to the old school motion when SF4 is RIGHT around the corner. it makes no sense to make us Cammy players re-adjust to the old motion again while sagat keeps his dp motion for the tiger knee. Seems a little bias doesn't it?

Fortunately this made me practice this motion on HD remix in old school mode and i'm glad to say that i can do it without any problem about 85% of the time, other times I either accidentally jump or i just punch.

Hopefully what people say is right and the fact that the game is slower will make this move easier to pull off; after all it's not like the move looks all that effective now. I dont want to accidentally jump forward or punch trying to do a less effective move.:sweat:

[Murt!]

Fucking weak :tdown:

[Skatan Milla]

I never had much problems with her inputs in ST so I don't really care wether they're STHD or ST style.

[Asane]

Damn, after looking at the videos the spinning backfist seems to be a tad bit slower than in HDR which will cause some problems timing wise.

Also, the change back to old skool SF input for the Hooligan Combo is... wow, I'm going to have to switch back to classic mode in HDR to practice this.

[King9999]

Is it me, or does the backfist have more invincibility, though? The Fei vs. Cammy vid on 1UP led me to believe this.

[BrandonMasters]

Wow, I'm really glad someone made this post. Honestly, the news is depressing to me. I grew up playing Street Fighter but I was nowhere near hardcore. I was never able to really get into any of the other characters and ended up sticking to tried and true shoto, Ken. I do love playing Ken, but when I got STHD I heard about the new controls and decided to experiment with some characters.

I tried out Cammy and I found her a LOT of fun. Like the OP described, she has a kind of quirky but shoto-ish gameplay and that fit me perfectly. The fact her commands weren't updated with the STHD ones seems to work against the main idea of SF4 which was bringing back old SF players and making the game more accessible to new players. Wouldn't the new updated commands from STHD work perfectly towards that goal? I can't speak for anyone else, but STHD's mission was a success for me.

In any case, when I found out the news I was upset but I said I'd commit to mastering her moves anyways, fine, they're harder, I'll work on it. But then I hear the moves themselves aren't even worth using and it's just like a kick in the balls.

Is Cammy going to blow in SF4? I don't understand the logic in slowing down Cammy when they always leave Sagat in god tier in whatever game he's in. STHD really hit the balance nail on the head, I was hoping to see SF4 make use of what STHD did right.

I couldn't agree more. Those HD remix controls really do make the game easier for new players to adjust to. Some chars can do without the new motions of HD, for example Gief. However cammy is one that needed these new motions. But as far as Sagat's DP TK motion, he had that all through alpha too, so that not so much a surprise.

[Sakura.Densetsu]

It isn'y like Capcom hasn't changed motions in other games.

At very least they should have made Hooligan into a Yoga Flame motion.

[Xstatic]

I don't mind the old input for the Hooligan Roll. My problem is that it reportedly sucks in this game. Cammy is plain boring without a good Hooligan. ST Cammy, even though she's one of the worst characters if not the worst, is still fun. I'd take ST Cammy over her top tier versions any day of the week.

[AJrandom]

A very lame mistake, yes.

[dflowen]

I don't mind this hooligan input reminds me of Alpha 3 so its all good.

[Ben Reed]

Technically, it's not really a "return" to the old motions in SF4 because the command changes in SF2 HDR were Sirlin's baby through and through, just like all the rest of HDR. The changes there weren't really meant to reflect any kind of larger philosophy changes at Capcom about move properties -- they were mostly just Sirlin injecting his own vision into one particular version of Street Fighter near and dear to his heart. (This is not to knock Sirlin, though; he and his team made a great game even better, and he thinks a LOT harder about what goes into "remaking" an existing game than many other people do who have similar power to do so.) SF2HD was basically a friendly abomination to Capcom canon. So no, it's not TECHNICALLY a mistake, because the "real" Capcom never changed their position on the subject.

Also, the Hooligan motion is really not a significant barrier in any games besides Super Turbo (mostly due to the weird and sometimes random way vanilla ST/HSF2 accepted inputs compared to later games). With just a little practice in the Alpha games, CvS2, etc., the Hooligan is MUCH easier to reliably deploy, buffered or otherwise.

I do agree that it's kind of an artificially hard motion given that Hooligan's not exactly hit-confirm into death or anything in any game it's in, but I really don't see how "returning" to the old Hooligan motion kills so many boners around here.

[Windsagio]

So, it comes back to people saying that Capcom JP didn't use the superior motions just because they didn't think it up.

Tres' lame.



PS: It pisses people off, because they see it as a step backwards... An inconsistant step backwards. The devil flip isn't that motion, and its a better version of the same move (afaik). Neither is the Tiger Knee itself, and alot of people consider that one of the best specials in the game. Its not like nobody's gonna buy the game over this, but people can bemoan a goofy decision.

[Murt!]

got negged, don't give a fuck

fuck the old inputs

[kenuran]

Whatever, Im still gonna play Cammy and I still am gonna be able pull off all her moves whenever I want to. Hooligan is not even a hard motion to get down. There's nothing you can do so just get used to it.

[Ben Reed]

So, it comes back to people saying that Capcom JP didn't use the superior motions just because they didn't think it up.

Tres' lame.

In their defense (kind of)...I'm not sure that any of the SF4 dev team is even AWARE of the modified inputs/the rationale behind them in HD Remix (except maybe Ono, who might have run into it talking to American game journos about Street Fighter in general, where the topic of HD Remix and command/move changes might have come up. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong). I really don't see how Capcom "proper" is even aware of what HD Remix constitutes besides (a) the obvious graphical upgrade, and (b) the fact that they gave it the green light and those crazy gaijin made it for the crazy gaijin market.



PS: It pisses people off, because they see it as a step backwards... An inconsistant step backwards. The devil flip isn't that motion, and its a better version of the same move (afaik). Neither is the Tiger Knee itself, and alot of people consider that one of the best specials in the game. Its not like nobody's gonna buy the game over this, but people can bemoan a goofy decision.

I don't deny that it's kinda dumb the Hooligan motion hasn't been simplified by Capcom "proper" by this point (especially given it's not even half as "abusable" when buffered from normals as Demon Flip). I just don't see how this was really all that unexpected given the historical context and the fact that HD Remix isn't really a "true" Capcom game, and therefore almost completely irreflective of general franchise direction.

[dflowen]

Whatever, Im still gonna play Cammy and I still am gonna be able pull off all her moves whenever I want to. Hooligan is not even a hard motion to get down. There's nothing you can do so just get used to it.

YEAH I'm with Kenuran, an attitude I like. With an arcade stick it's easier. Just play and have fun.

Cammy and Viper all the way for me.

[comoesa]

hcb motions and TK are this much truoble?


They made inputs alot easier in sf4 this is not st.

[thor777]

The game is not even out yet and people are complaining, lol I'm sure Capcom JP thought about the ease of executing moves when the focus is to bring the game to a wider audience. They did adjust the timing so that special moves are easier to pull off, so I'd wait till the game releases before whining.....I do agree that dpad players will probably have a harder time compared to joystick players due to the amount of motion needed for the hooligan.......all the more reason to get a joystick ;)

[IparryU]

how about making a list of these moves?

If it is the same as CVS2, im damn happy.

as for the hooligan that everyone is talking about... the 12369 works good with set ups and rush downs. i am a die hard cammy player (CVS2-P Groove), never had problems busting it out or making it useful.

[gmbluedestiny]

I really like the HDR input for the hooligan. Guess I will have to readjust going back to oldschool. I am still going to main her just like I do in HDR. :)

[Master Chibi]

Meh, whatever.

[cage]

Gonna give her a serious chance before I make any judgement proper, but I do love the HDR inputs. Not so much Hooligan, but backfist always felt weird and inconsistent to pull off for me.

[Syxx573]

shouldn't be a problem

[bradlee289]

The game is not even out yet and people are complaining, lol

I think having 10+ years of struggling with Cammy's old inputs compared to the ease of her HD Remix inputs gives players plenty of experience to base a complaint. HD Remix made good changes and SF4 undid those changes.

I picked up Cammy again in HD Remix because she is a much more consistent and effective character with the input improvements. Now those are gone.

So yes, returning to the old inputs is a mistake.

[FaceMeAndBeBroken]

Considering that I abosultely hate everything about remix, and love real ST, this is DELICIOUS!

[UnknownEnemyZero]

I don't really see what the big deal is, I mean, ST execution was harder for just about everything, even wakeup DP and especially supers. The main thing I notice is that the ST/HDR was the only game where this move shined the best. A3/CvS2, hooligan could be used normally but it still wasn't the scary/fast-as-hell-grab/holy-crap-I-shouldn't throw fireballs variation that was in ST, hence why people cared so much when the move actually got changed to a qcf+p motion. Either way, Cammy became top-tier in CvS2 and a decent mid-tier in A3 without the hooligan anyway, so I don't see why people are complaining so much.

[Capn Spanky]

Good ST Cammy players can consistently throw out the hooligan from a standing position anyway. IIRC, Jchen did a post in the Cammy thread of the vanilla ST section that tiered the difficulties of situational hooligans, and to be honest, after enough practice, the motions will become second nature.

[LayZ]

I've always played mainly Alpha 3 and MvC2 Cammy anyways, so I've just accepted that motion as the Hooligan. All you can do is practice until you get it down. As long as Cammy is decent enough to beat my friends, I'll be good.

[Stay Crispy]

So i'm assuming that all of you who are complaining about Cammy's motions don't even have ANY intentions of using Zangief.

[comoesa]

I just played a long set of st and yes i could get the all the old motions, you guys have no reason to complain.

[kenuran]

The controls aren't as tight as they were in ST so yea, these motions shouldn't be much of a problem anyway.

[vesp]

any more info on this now that the games out in a few peoples hands?

How forgiving is the game on the tiger knee motion? I love cammy in HD remix but I'm too scrubby to be able to rely on tiger knee motions if they are as strict as in ST.

[dfly]

you guys are seriously making too big a deal of this. I was playing cammy the other day, tk motions are so easy in 4, as said earlier...THIS ISNT ST. This game is more forgiving (newb friendly) with motions than any other sf. Besides, why should shit be dumbed down just because weaker players either suck or just don't want to put the time into mastering shit.

I honestly don't see why some people are going to spend 60-80 dollars to buy the game, spend time making long winded posts in threads like these, and then just casually fuck around with the game. If some of you spent half time practicing that you do posting you might be decent.

Also i found hooligan to be decent after a crossup, to go right into it, it's pretty fast, and you hit lp and lk together to throw instead of st motion. You just can't do hooligan from any kind of distance.

[xero15]

hold up im still lost on this thread...people are complaining cuz they cant execute??? thats funny :rofl: ive never had a problem with any motion just look at the inputs then do it whats so hard bout that?

[blakkphire22]

after playing her. I think her hooligan motion sucks but it's going to take practice. her knuckle being hcb now rather than hcf is alot better. in st it was hcf and it never came out. i got hooligans before i got that.

the ex hooligan is pretty fast and goes high and seems like you can get away with hooligans as an escape. It still has the slide at the end so if you do a hp hooligan vs a fireball that's at the right distance you'll clear the fire ball and score a knock down. it's all about timing tho. I think there's an example of it in the video posted. (i'm not a top player sorry). Also her ex spike on wake up travels pretty far.

the thing i don't like is that you have to hit throw(lp+lk) to get her hooligan throw out. Also it doesn't matter where you throw from any more you'll get either the frankensteiner or the hooligan depending on the input rather than depending on where you grab.

[specs]

I can perform almost any motion a SF game gives me, including Cammy's "classic" tiger-knee Hooligan.

However, I still wish it was QCF.


Besides, why should shit be dumbed down just because weaker players either suck or just don't want to put the time into mastering shit.

I honestly don't see why some people are going to spend 60-80 dollars to buy the game, spend time making long winded posts in threads like these, and then just casually fuck around with the game. If some of you spent half time practicing that you do posting you might be decent.


You're an idiot.

[Shinkuu Tatsumaki]

^^ Same here man. I don't have a problem with returning to her old motions.... It's just I wish Sagat's TK went back to his original TK motion from SF2 also. Or keep the HDR changes. Just to have some consistency I guess.

From here on out we can no longer refer to it as TK motion, but CW motion. lol.

[dfly]

I can perform almost any motion a SF game gives me, including Cammy's "classic" tiger-knee Hooligan.

However, I still wish it was QCF.



You're an idiot.


You're a scrub. They made motions easier in st for scubs. And you're a scrub

[dfly]

I can perform almost any motion a SF game gives me, including Cammy's "classic" tiger-knee Hooligan.

However, I still wish it was QCF.



You're an idiot.


lol scrub you can perform almost any move :rofl:

you guys make the dumbest threads. learn to play

[specs]

You're a scrub. They made motions easier in st for scubs. And you're a scrub


lol scrub you can perform almost any move :rofl:

you guys make the dumbest threads. learn to play

It's looking like "idiot" is pretty spot on. Let's count, shall we? I'll go slow so you can follow along:

1. Apparently you lack the mental capacity and digits to operate the a mouse, because a simple click of the Edit button would have let you make your "point" without looking even more inept.

2. According to the designer of HD Remix himself (and you can get an adult to type sirlin.net into your web browser for you), AND evident both in-game and the fact that HD Remix is featured at the next Evolution, the easier motions were added for accessibility, and because the question "does that motion really have to be that way" didn't have a particularly justifiable answer.

3. Saying "learn to play" when somebody offers criticism about something you've dedicated your limited attention span to enjoying is like saying "learn to cope" to somebody living in a dictatorship fighting for governmental reform. If you can't grasp what I'm saying there (and let's face it, you can't), then let's just say that ANY complaint you have about ANYTHING is hypocritical, because you should, in fact, "learn to play."

Please apply rational thought before posting again, idiot. Otherwise you'll never shed that label.

[Spirited_Away]

Command puts are easier in SF4, Hoolgian was easy in Cvs2/Z2A/A3 as mentioned before the reason why it was so hard in ST is because she didn't have enough pre-jump frames like the later games.

Btw I bet the motion has some ridiculous shortcut like the how :r::d::df:+:p: can be done as :df::df:+:p: in SF4.

Try :db::df::uf:+:p:

[Geargrinder]

I've read about a shortcut for the hooligan somewhere, i believe it's 1236 (db,d,df,f) +P
and anyways, I'm playing with a 360 controller (sanded DOES work) and I've got no problem getting this out.

And yes, I'm a SF noob and yes I've spent a lot of time practicing these moves, but they are not THAT hard.

[LewisG35]

So as you've probably read by now the inputs for Cammy's moves in SF4 have been revealed and Cammy's player friendly quarter circle moves of STHD are gone and replaced by her old half circle and 270 degree motions that made her nearly unplayable (at least with consistency) for the average gamer. There are a handful of old school Cammy players out there who were probably happy to hear this, they are either naturally gifted with inhuman reflexes or spent years in training to pull off her moves consistently, and so now they once again have a rather significant edge over the average player who would want to try to run Cammy. As for me... not so much.

I've always liked Cammy, the art style, the shoto-ish but uniquely her own fighting style, and just the fact she wasn't all that popular and I like to play what others aren't playing. That said, I never maned her in any fighting game before STHD because as much as I wanted to, all I could ever do with any consistency was cannon drill and cannon spike so her game play got pretty boring pretty quickly and I hated knowing I wasn't using her to her full potential, not truly representing her. Then STHD came out and while Cammy is still considered by most to be bottom tier I quickly made her my main based soley on her game play which I found incredibly fun. It hadn't really changed, I simply could now actually spinning back fist and hooligan when I wanted to making them viable tactics in real matches. I could now read advice for her and actually put it into action, I could now feel like I was really representing her and playing her how she was intended to be played.

I haven't played SF4 yet so I don't know for sure how bad things will be again, but just looking at those old inputs makes me shudder and is eating away at the excitement I once had for running her and playing this game. Why on earth did they feel it necessary to make Cammy's true game play, the game play that might never be top tier strong but was incredibly fun, available to such a small number of the player community again. Yes STHD spoiled me, but it made me realize that her moves didn't NEED to be overly complex, that she could still feel very unique based on how unique her moves worked with out needing to have unnecessarily complex inputs (and they truly are unnecessary with the quarter circle motions unused for anything).

What do you all feel, do you feel returning Cammy's old inputs was a mistake, or do you have some justification (beyond the fact that a lot of old school gamers already have spent a lot of time perfecting them and would be annoyed to have that effort not carry over to this game) for going back to her more obnoxious move inputs?


I didn't read the rest of the thread so I don't know if you got a chance to play yet or not but don't worry man, she's not as hard to control as you may think.

I never really made Cammy my main back when they first put her out there but when X-men VS. Street Fighter came into the scene I tried her out and I was hooked on her speed. I didn't really mind the fact that she's not as defensive as other characters and tends to take more damage, this just made playing her more interesting to me because it was more of a challenge. If people can hurt you more than you can hurt them and you still beat them countless times.. You feel pretty good :rofl:

Anyhow, while they DID make playing her a much "easier" experience in SFIIHD than it was in the original Supers.. They did a LOT of things in SFIV that I'm stoked over.. First of, design wise, she looks amazing. Her ultra combo is one of the best looking that I've seen so far.. Third only to Akuma and Ken's. And I can't forget to mention her trademark ass which looks even better in 3D.. Hahaha...

But besides all that BS.. The gameplay is great IMO.. Primarily because she is incredibly fast. Her speed is blinding.. I literally just jump around sometimes land with HK and chain to Spiral Arrow.. Wait.. EX Spiral Arrow.. Do it all over.. Then dash around the opponent and sweep to a Spiral Arrow. I get perfects all the time. It's incredibly easy to pull off Cannon Spikes and Spiral arrows and I've found some nice chain combos with both.. You can even chain them together for a makeshift supermove and if you EX them you'll do quite a bit of damage. The Hooligan Combo and the Back fist aren't as hard to pull off as I originally pictured them to be or as hard as they were in the original Super but yet.. I hardly use those anyway and do just fine. The only downfall I see is she is weak and does tend to take more damage than any of my other mains.. Even Akuma.. But if you know how to move around, and keep doing it.. You can beat almost anybody.. Even a fire shoryuken spamming Ken..

[IparryU]

Her speed is blinding.. I literally just jump around sometimes land with HK and chain to Spiral Arrow.. Wait.. EX Spiral Arrow.. Do it all over.. Then dash around the opponent and sweep to a Spiral Arrow. I get perfects all the time. It's incredibly easy to pull off Cannon Spikes and Spiral arrows ...
ya, who are you playing? sprial arrow is so easy to stuff, you cant just throw it out like in CVS2....


Even a fire shoryuken spamming Ken..
ya, hp.shoryuken > fdac > pic and grind cammy. ken is a hard pressure game for cammy, his kara-throws kill cammy too if you try to play close. i have harder times with ken than ryu....

[King9999]

I had my concerns when SF4 went back to the old motions, but since the controls are lenient, pulling off hooligans isn't hard at all.