Abel Combos and Glitches

[RagingStormX]

List your favorite combos here using standard abbreviation conventions. Include the proper damage from the training data in training mode.

Make sure to perform the combo when the opponent has a full lifebar, because otherwise the damage will be reduced depending on how low the opponent's health is.

Also, discuss any glitches or bugs the character has.

I'll update this first post so once thing are found etc, no one has to read thru xx amount of pages.

Abel can begin a combo with a forward-jump mk or fp if the jump-in is deep enough.
No Super Meter

1. Close fp (one hit) xx fp Change of Direction xx Second High xx Finish High

222 Damage, 225 Stun, 160 Super Meter


2. Cr.fp (one hit) xx fp Change of Direction xx Second High xx Finish High

212 Damage, 225 Stun, 140 Super Meter


3. Twds+mk xx Forward Dash -> Combo #1

280 Damage, 305 Stun, 200 Super Meter


4. Cr.mp OR cr.mk xx mp Change of Direction xx Second High xx Finish High

207 Damage, 225 Stun, 120 Super Meter


5. Cr.fp (both hits) xx lk Marseilles Roll -> fp Sky Fall*

270 Damage, 350 Stun, 200 Super Meter


6. cr.lk or cr.lp -> Combo #1

230 Damge, 255 Stun, 180 Super Meter


7. cr.lk xx cr.lp xx cr.lp xx cr.lp -> far lk (this is also his standard blockstring)

119 Damge, 205 Stun, 100 Super Meter


8. cr.lk xx cr.lp xx cr.lp -> far mp

130 Damage, 210 Stun, 100 Super Meter


9. Anti-air cr.fp (second hit only) xx lk Marseilles Roll -> fp Sky Fall

200 Damage, 250 Stun, 120 Super Meter


* For Combo #5, you do a lk Marseilles Roll to hit-confirm the cr.fp and for the extra meter. However, on some characters you have to omit the roll.

2 EX bars

10. Close fp OR cr.fp (one hit) xx fp Change of Direction xx EX Focus Cancel xx Forward Dash -> Combo #3

11. Close fp OR cr.fp (one hit) xx fp Change of Direction -> EX Focus Cancel xx Forward Dash -> Combo #5

12. Cr.mp OR cr.mk xx mp Change of Direction xx EX Focus Cancel xx Forward Dash -> Combo #3

13. Cr.mp OR cr.mk xx mp Change of Direction xx EX Focus Cancel xx Forward Dash -> Combo #5
Full Super Meter

14. Close fp (both hits) xx Heartless (Super)

15. Twds-mk xx Forward Dash -> Combo #14

16. Cr.fp (both hits) xx lk Marseilles Roll xx Heartless (Super)

17. Combo # 8 xx Heartless (Super)
Ultra combos

* No Super Meter

17. Cr.fp -> Soulless (Ultra)

18. Anti-air cr.fp (second hit only) -> Soulless (Ultra)

19. Level 1 Focus Attack (Counterhit only) OR Level 2 Focus Attack OR Level 3 Focus Attack xx Forward Dash -> Soulless (Ultra)

20. Level 1 Focus Attack (Counterhit only) OR Level 2 Focus Attack OR Level 3 Focus Attack xx Forward Dash -> cr.fp -> Soulless (Ultra)

* 2 EX bars

21. Close fp (one hit) OR cr.fp (one hit) xx fp Change of Direction xx EX Focus Cancel xx Forward Dash -> cr.fp (both hits) -> Soulless (Ultra)

22. Twds-mk xx Forward Dash -> close fp (one hit) xx fp Change of Direction xx Ex Focus Cancel xx Forward Dash -> cr.fp (both hits) -> Soulless (Ultra)

23. Cr.mp OR cr.mk xx mp Change of Direction xx EX Focus Cancel xx Forward Dash -> cr.fp (both hits) -> Soulless (Ultra)

[BustaBust]

this thread is relatively close to this one... so i dont know if you wanna take the stuff in that thread and put it here like you did to the one i opened. http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=166516

[RagingStormX]

Done.

[FlexYoFace]

nice

[jaunty]

A combo I've been playing with that I finally got a chance to test properly today;

(optional crossup j.:mk:.):d::hp:xx:d::db::l:+:k:

You can only cancel the second hit into the wheel kick. You can also cancel on block to attempt to avoid any punishments of a blocked :d::hp:

You can use any strength of kick to do the wheel kick, but HK won't connect in the corner. EX Also works and connects for 2 hits, but you only get one hit in the corner.

The damage is good, and the stun feels very good. Three lots of this put Chun-Li into stun. I also prefer this over the standard :d::hp: xx roll, air throw since I find the execution/timing alot less demanding, but the payoff is similar in terms of meter/damage.

[BustaBust]

you can cancel wheel kick after the first hit of cr.hp. also after the 2nd hit, if you do HK wheel kick against some characters it misses. also they can quick recover after this hit where when you do falling sky they cant.

[jaunty]

I tried it on Chun, Gief, Dictator and Ryu, all of them connected for 2 hits with EX or the single hit with :hk:. Fuerte or Viper might be a problem, though. :mk: or EX should still hit them. Personally, I've been doing it with :lk: just to avoid missing.

Swings and roundabouts, I guess...

[BustaBust]

ya of course it works on majority of the cast but on a select few like viper and fuerte it doesnt. the ex version hits on everyone or almost everyone since it has a shorter range and faster start up than hk. its not worth doing ex imo but if thats your thing then thats cool. i mean for me i personally like to do cr.fp roll fierce falling sky or mp falling sky depending on the character. i choose this over the wheel kick because you gain a bit more meter due to roll and they cant quick rise after falling sky. i mean execution for this combo isnt a problem once you start doing it a lot. but if you are not that great with execution the wheel kick works too.

[humbag]

Busta: just got done playing Abel a lot tonight.

Is there a trick to landing lp cod->fadc->c.hp or is it just that hard?

I got it like one outta 10 or so tries.

That link is about the only thing I cant do reliably with him.

[BustaBust]

um its just your timing is off. i really dont know how to help you there. to be honest im just so used to execution based stuff that i found it to be really easy. coming with a background of about a year and a half to 2 years of 3rd strike playing yun. i can learn combos easy. my guess is that you are being thrown off by the dash, try to input the cr.fp a bit earlier than u think maybe that will help if not i cant help you there.

[Crisium]

SA3 does 140 damage, not 200. According to frame data thread.

[RagingStormX]

Ill fix whatever is wrong once I get my copy, since it will have the damage values (it should). I need more comboooooos!

[ZeonTheUnborn]

Hey, with that combo, I need a little help. It's Abel crouching punch into the first hit of CoD, then SADC's, df.FP into his Ultra.

Okay, which crouch punch is that MP? And how quickly do I have to do the SADC? I tried doing it last night, and I ended up doing just my SA.

[hfz69]

Hey, with that combo, I need a little help. It's Abel crouching punch into the first hit of CoD, then SADC's, df.FP into his Ultra.

Okay, which crouch punch is that MP? And how quickly do I have to do the SADC? I tried doing it last night, and I ended up doing just my SA.

yup, MP. You ended up doing SA because you released the mp+mk before doing the dash motion.

[ZeonTheUnborn]

I don't know if yall knew this, but... you can do c.FP xx roll, xx Jab super.

Abel WILL catch them. I don't know if it works for the other strengths. But jab super worked for me.

[Natty]

I've haven't ever properly played streetfighter with a joystick however because of the xbox 360 pad I've been forced to buy one though I'm not too bad with analog it seems that it would be a lot easier with a joystick and i've ordered one and it should arrive tomorrow I really want to main abel but the combos that i have seen on this site are laid out like so..

cr.mp xx lp rekka, second high, final high: 188

^^
This means nothing to me except lp = low punch and cr.mp = cross up medium punch (I think i've seen the phrase cross-up a lot so I assumed so though I have no idea what it means). can someone give me a guide to basic terms used and things relating to a joystick so when I see a combo like the one above i'll be able to understand it.

[wiggywiggy`]

Hi Natty,

The terms confuse me too...

I can only guess what this combo means...
cr.mp xx lp rekka, second high, final high

Crouching (cr) Medium Punch Linked into (xx) Light Punch CoD(Change of direction - also known as rekkas) which is the Quarter Circle forward+Punch move followed up with Forward Punch for the second high and Forward Punch again for the final High.

Correct me if I'm wrong guys.

[Natty]

Ah that makes perfect sense thank you

[tl_crow]

Er, probably a dumb question, but does SA3 = FA3? I see SA3 and I think I'm in third strike, lol

[vagabond07]

Er, probably a dumb question, but does SA3 = FA3? I see SA3 and I think I'm in third strike, lol

Yes. FA and SA, which are acronyms for focus attack and saving attack, respectively, are both synonymous for the MP+MK system mechanic in SFIV.

[Icege]

Mind adding a list of links?

c.lk links into close s.mp

[ToOoOomeke]

Hey has anyone noticed the strange damage scaling that goes on with abels ultra?

[BustaBust]

well after 3 hits damage scaling takes effect.

[ToOoOomeke]

well after 3 hits damage scaling takes effect.

woops forgot to explain it

So say you do C.HP link Ultra. The C.HP is 100% dmg and the whole Ultra is 80% dmg. This is normal as Ultras and Focus Attacks are considered to be two moves. But....

J.HP > C.HP > Ultra. The J.HP is 100% dmg so is the C.HP but for Ultra the first hit is scaled at 70%(which is normal) the next couple hits are scaled at 80%(Strange) then the last hit and the throw are scaled at 70% again. Just seemed strange to me that it scales differently if its the third move of the combo. Go check it out in training mode if you can.

[BustaBust]

i dont have a console. arcade 4 life........ haha nah im too broke for a console so if any of you would like to donate to the BustaBust needs a 360 fund HOLLA! :P :rofl:

[ToOoOomeke]

i dont have a console. arcade 4 life........ haha nah im too broke for a console so if any of you would like to donate to the BustaBust needs a 360 fund HOLLA! :P :rofl:

Hah I think if I stopped playing at the arcade the day we got it in I probably could have saved enough for two 360's, a ps3 and a different copy of sf4 for each day of the week. 2 bucks a game hurts

[noodleman]

just tested these with abel on ryu...full ultra

fa3, dash cancel, cr.fp, ultra = 560 (cr.fp is scaled at 80%, ultra is scaled at 60%)

fa3, dash cancel, ultra = 528 (ultra is scaled at 70%)

cross up j.mk, cr.mp xx rekka xx fadc, cr.fp, ultra = 521 (Ultra is scaled at 50%)

look like scaling starts on hte first hit after sa, rather than the 3rd hit.

cr.mp xx mp rekka, high, high = 207

cross up j.mk, cr.mp, xx rekka xx fadc, cr.fp xx short roll, mp star fall = 335

FA3, dc, cr.fp xx short roll, mp star fall = 333

j.mk, cr.fp xx short roll, mp star fall = 300

j.rh, cr.fp xx short roll, mp star fall = 340

weird, FA3 only does 140 damage, as opposed to the listed 200 in the book. fa1/2 are 60/80 respectively.

[BustaBust]

why not do fp falling sky? more damage and iw ould like to know the points on that please :D

[noodleman]

this is why i shouldn't check this shit at 2am in the moring. i was reading the stun data for the FA's...so my combo math thread earlier is completely incorrect lol. I'll try some more BnB's when i get home from work. Any special requests?

[BustaBust]

just curious on how much dmg this does. f+mk dash cr.lp, st.mp rekka fadc cr.fp ultra

[blazeu25]

i never new rekkas fadc cr hp wouls b so strict in timin

[blazeu25]

i just cant get that combo down. after the fadc i cant connet cr hp most of the time. any advice?

[Atb_555]

Yeah its pretty tight timing. Shiro does it like clockwork lol. Ditto on the advice.

[noodleman]

f.mk, cr.fp isn't that strict, once you get use to it it's there all the time. kinda like learning to paint the fence, but 2 reps intead of 14-15 haha.

[Atb_555]

Whops I thought I read st.hp instead of cr.hp. To reiterate:

f + mk, dash, st.hp xx qcf + lp, fadc, etc.

Connecting st.hp after f + mk is crazy hard.

[noodleman]

Whops I thought I read st.hp instead of cr.hp. To reiterate:

f + mk, dash, st.hp xx qcf + lp, fadc, etc.

Connecting st.hp after f + mk is crazy hard.
yes, and you need to do this twice in hte last Hard Challenge...i had to rage quit that trail before destroyed my tv.

its' f.mk, dash, st.fp xx mp rekka xx fadc, f.mk, dash, st.fp.

[BustaBust]

to be honest guys. practice your timing. u actually found it easy to do and didnt realize it was hard until i started getting people asking for advice. the only advice here is practice. its all timing and there are no tricks to it.

[blazeu25]

to be honest guys. practice your timing. u actually found it easy to do and didnt realize it was hard until i started getting people asking for advice. the only advice here is practice. its all timing and there are no tricks to it.

what im wondering is how did u master that combo in the arcades? lol

[BustaBust]

it seemed very easy to learn. eh i guess its because i came from a yun background? and he is execution based.? other than that i dont know i just did em :P

[Icege]

Mind adding a list of links?

c.lk links into close s.mp

My mistake on this. I can't seem to replicate it, though I could've sworn I was hitting a friend with it the other night. Then again, I was pretty far back from the TV and couldn't see the combo count :P

Like Busta said, most of the stuff is a timing issue. I'm stuck on pad since my stick was one of the preorders that MadCatz didn't produce in time >.< . I was still able to do everything with the exception of the final combo in Hard mode. Most of the stuff just requires you to wait a little bit longer than usual. As for his f+mk stuff, try and wait until after Abel ducks. Anyone that plays a character with a crouch dash in Tekken might have an easier time. Don't get me wrong, I'm not getting this stuff 100% but even on a pad I'm getting a decent %

Just some nonsense to put out, after lv3 Focus Attack, f+mk xx dash, close s.hp xx qcf+mp,f+p,p does the most damage. It does only 1pt more than lv3 FA, dash, c.hp xx dp+hp

Anyone else EX Focusing off of Abel's close s.mp and close s.hp? It might not end up being useful down the road, but I'm getting some Tornado Throw ticks and CH focus attacks as a result for now.

Also, never Focus Attack into EX Tornado Throw. Fierce Tornado Throw does more damage :sweat:

Abel is like the son I never had, complete with a haircut that I disapprove of

[Kim Sue-il]

Isn't all about spacing when it comes to landing f+mk, sFP. I usually hit it out of sweep range. Plus, you can set yourself for the right spacing with block string off light attacks. Of course this is just how I do it. I'm pretty sure other people have better ways.

[noodleman]

why not do fp falling sky? more damage and iw ould like to know the points on that please :D

FA3, dc, cr.fp xx hp falling sky = 340

j.mk, cr.fp xx hp falling sky = 308

j.rh, cr.fp xx hp falling sky = 340


just curious on how much dmg this does. f+mk dash cr.lp, st.mp rekka fadc cr.fp ultra

i couldn't get the f.mk dash cr.lp link for the life of me but everything without the f.mk = 461 (full ultra scaled at 50%)

if the cr.mk was counter hit, the whole combo does 480 damage (full ultra scaled at 40%)

[BustaBust]

cool thanks.

edit: dont know if you guys know this combo already but f+mk cr.lp, cr.lp st.lp, st.mp. i dont think it works on every character. also noodleman or anyone can you let me know the points for this as well? not having a console sucks haha. thanks in advance

[turk1sh]

working on my bnbs with abel

having the most trouble getting the roll after the cr. fp after the fadc

i can do

rekka xx fadc, cr. fp, falling sky

the roll doesn't want to come out reliably for me... i try waiting to input the command til the 2nd hit of the cr. fp but still no luck... can't tell if i'm too early or too late

guess i just need to practice more

[noodleman]

are you sure you can do f.mk, dash, cr.lp as a regular link (wihtout counter hit?)? I've been trying for TIME and i still can't get it to connect.

[BustaBust]

hmmm try this then, im pretty sure this works too. f+mk cr.lk cr.lp cr.lp st.lp st.mp

edit: depending on the character do f+mk cr.lk cr.lp st.lp st.mp

[humbag]

Im pretty sure most stuff will link from the f+mk

Yeah, when I was playing Abel before I got the game it was on a laggy TV so no wonder I sucked at the link.

After you get used to it it comes out like butter. (the fadc->c.hp)

[Arkayne17]

i just cant get that combo down. after the fadc i cant connet cr hp most of the time. any advice?



@blazeu
actually try this i found out the trick for this combo...
its not hard at all. Once you start the LP COD , before it even hits do the EX cancel. Then it'll work I promise you.

@turki1sh
As for the CR.FP ->roll.. Just wait till you see the secod hit about to connect and put in the roll motion.. and itll come out after they are launched,


@busta
Busta , you gotta get a PS3 or something.

[el_diablo]

I'm pretty sure f.mk dash cr.lp won't work without a counter hit because f.mk dash st.mp won't work and st.mp and cr.lp have the same startup. only st.lp and st.hp would work.

A good link is cr.lk, st.hp. It works, but the opponent have to be standing or the st.hp will whiff, i have no idea why.

[Crisium]

FA counts as two hits for scaling. So FA3 > Fierce Tornado is 316 (140 + 220(.80)). Anything after an FA has the same thing. So adjust properly in first post.

Also cr.fp > Ultra does less damage than clean ultra, so I'm not sure what's up. I think there's some extra scaling anytime for Ultra.

Training mode vs. Ken, with Ultra at 100% (not 50% like in first post, because training mode is 100%):

j.hk > cr.fp > Ultra: 608
j.hk> cl.fp xx lp.cod xx FADC > cr.fp > Ultra: 567 (cl = close standing)(so I'll never try this pain in the ass combo again, above is better)
FA3 > cr.fp > Ultra: 560
Ultra: 551
cr.fp > Ultra: 548
cl.fp xx lp.cod xx FADC > cr.fp > Ultra: 530 (cl = close standing)
lp.cod xx FADC > cr.fp > Ultra: 528
FA3 > Ultra: 528
cr.mp > lp cod xx FADC > cr.fp > Ultra: 520

So I'm not sure what's up with the scaling. You guys can do the math. What puzzles me is that clean Ultra beats cr.fp > Utra... unless it's after an FA3 where you want to add the cr.hp

I can test the other ultra combos later I guess.

I can never combo cr.fp after j.mk (including crossup), but I can after j.hk. Though it's hard to hit them with the j.hk, the cr.fp comes so easy if you do.

[Rinsuku]

You can Ex star fall Ryu out of hurricane kick, even if he is over your head... I don't know if that's new or not. Trying on other shotos right now.

Edit: you can also normal Star fall them. On reaction if your good enough.

Double Edit: If you do the move while ducking, he'll just grab them out of it. I've only tried it with Weak punch though. Only tested on Ryu and Ken so far.

[hold dat]

just for lolz and how cool it looks i was doing this in practice mode last night

j.mk, cr.mp, qcf lp, fadc, cr. hp (1 hit), qcf lp, fadc, cr. hp, ultra

full ex meter needed of course

[BustaBust]

LOL. ive been doing those full ex meter ultra combos for awhile now. hah i call them the finisher combos because the ultra does shit damage and i only do it when it will kill the person. ive done cr.mp mp rekka fadc cr.mp mp rekka fadc cr.hp ultra. f+mk fierce xx rekka fadc fierce xx rekka fadc cr.hp ultra. etc you get the idea of what combos you can do. personally its not worth it since u waste all your meter and no damage but hey if you are going to do it as a finisher its a great one! :lovin:

[noodleman]

^^^ show off :P

[BustaBust]

hah it is a show off move :P it looks so tight haha. its worthless if you dont do it as a finisher, the ultra does like less than throw damage or something haha.

[MOB712]

I don't know if yall knew this, but... you can do c.FP xx roll, xx Jab super.

Abel WILL catch them. I don't know if it works for the other strengths. But jab super worked for me.

You could just roll and go into the super; don't think the jab makes much of a difference when it comes to damage but rolling into the super is alot easier than having to jab first

[BustaBust]

i think he ment the jab version of super? if so it doesnt matter what version it is. you can just do cr.fp cancel after the second hit into super and forget about the roll.

[Arkayne17]

K.I.S.S = Keep It simple stupid...

I take that theory in mind in most fighters. xP

Abel S.Mp.. is good. I was poking bison out of psycho crushers on the downtime at the end of the move : )

[MOB712]

i think he ment the jab version of super? if so it doesnt matter what version it is. you can just do cr.fp cancel after the second hit into super and forget about the roll.

Oh.......that makes alot more sense :sweat:

But yea i usually do the super after the second hit on the cr. fp but it looks cool with the roll lol

[MookieRah]

So yeah, I didn't want to post this here as I'm sure someone posted it somewhere, but I've honestly spent over an hour searching so I'm just going to ask.

How do you cancel the focus attack when you are performing the COD > FADC > cr.fp > Ultra?

[Icege]

Make sure you're holding MP+MK and dash as soon as he cancels into the EX Focus

[ZeonTheUnborn]

It may be irrelevant now, but I tested it out. All version of the super WILL catch an air born enemy.

[takitama]

kinda stupid but what is
fadc and sadc

[Arkayne17]

kinda stupid but what is
fadc and sadc

FA= Focus Attack..

SA = Saving Attack

DC= Dash Cancel

They are the same thing. IIRC.. Just some people use whichever they feel.

[BustaBust]

in think sadc is what japans prefer while we say fadc.

[RSDeathscythe]

Just a quick Abel question. Busta would probably know. What is the advantage of doing a roll after c.F then just going right into Skyfall?

[BustaBust]

you gain meter for rolling

[RSDeathscythe]

Ah that makes sense. I feel much better about my Abel after I put Dhalsim in a c.mp rekka fadc c.fp ultra! Man did it feel sweet. Also can any L,M,H rekka be canceled into elbow?

[BustaBust]

yupp

[windbreaka]

:qcf: :lp: > FADC > cr. :hp:

I'm trying to get the timing down for the above maneuver.

First part I seem to have trouble with is the FADC out of lp. rekka.
I'm able to do it occasionally just on muscle memory somehow, but as soon as I try to consciously control my inputs, I mess it up. So basically I'm try to figure out what my fingers are doing.

It looks like I'm starting the input of the dash command (:r: :r:) before I press :mp: :mk: So it looks like...

:qcf: :lp: (as the rekka is hitting I press :r:) > :r: + :mp: :mk: > cr. :hp:

I think someone already mentioned inputting the dash command just before FADC. Could you be so kind as to confirm if this is also how you do the combo, please?

(I'm the kind of player who pulls off moves with frantic mashes rather than accurate inputs, and I'm trying very hard to change that)


Second part is the cr. :hp: that follows the FADC. On one of his earlier posts, Bustabust said it's just matter of timing and practice. But I was wondering if there were some information that could help with the execution? For example:
1) Is FADC > cr. :hp: a link? If so, can I use the traveling flicker of light on the enemy life bar to assist in my timing, just as with other link moves?
2) Is the timing tricky, because I must execute the cr. :hp: just as soon as I recover from the dash? Also, while I'm on the topic of coming out of dash recovery to an attack - f. :mk: > DC > st. :hp: a similar deal where the you must execute the st. :hp: as soon as you come out of dash recovery?

[BustaBust]

:qcf: :lp: (as the rekka is hitting I press :r:) > :r: + :mp: :mk: > cr. :hp:


you have to do the rekka then fadc THEN input forward forward for the dash. cuz by how you showed the input what you are doing is rekka focus attack cr.fp which doesnt work. i would have to say the fadc cr.fp is more of a combo than a link but meh not sure on that. also you have to do the move as soon as you recover from the dash or you will miss.

[Tizoc]

I've seen a match vid wherein Abel does his QCF+P on an aerial opponent and then did his Ultra and it connected. Is this character specific or are there various other methods to do this combo?

[el_diablo]

It's an EX COD. Works on everyone, has to hit late so that the COD hits them while they are airborne. You can EX air grab if you have no ultra.

[AtTheGates]

you can juggle with normal COD into ultra after c.HP (2nd hit) Anti Air. EX COD is only required if you use it directly as an anti air, without the c.HP.

[el_diablo]

Yes and you can finish that anti air combo with an EX skyfall too. Still if you have an ultra and land a anti air cr.hp, it's better to learn the timing to land the ultra without the COD because it actually does more damage without the COD.

[hold dat]

not sure if these jewels of info are old but...

you can rekka fadc, c.hp, ultra. i always thought 1 hit from the rekka alone wouldnt combo. but it works with only 1 hit from a rekka. it works with jab, strong, fierce and ex

playing online i absorbed a fireball with ex rekka, then fadc, c.hp, ultra. being able to this from 1 hit of the rekka is really useful. you have to fadc really fast though


also if your opponent is in the corner c.fp, fadc, ultra works if you backdash when you do the fadc. you can fadc from the second hit of c.hp

[Lionx]

Does c.mp link into itself? If it does that would be dope and easy to combo with. Also how good/bad is roll xx ultra? If that works like it does in CvS2 that would be hella lolz to be had for me...

[BustaBust]

roll ultra is bad unless you know they are going to press a button. like say for instance sagat. if you roll at him he probably will do st.rh so roll ultra. also you can do cr.mp cr.mp as a combo IF it was a counter hit.

[Darkyellow]

Hey Bustabust, I have question for you. In one of your other threads you talked about canceling the ex COD into the ultra. I understand how it works in theory, but what's the timing of the move? If I do qcf x 2 PP ~ P, I get the super instead of EX COD.

[Tizoc]

you can juggle with normal COD into ultra after c.HP (2nd hit) Anti Air. EX COD is only required if you use it directly as an anti air, without the c.HP.

Thanks, I was wondering if that is possible (Cr. HP-->QCF+P--Ultra) :tup:

[shinsatsu]

Hey Bustabust, I have question for you. In one of your other threads you talked about canceling the ex COD into the ultra. I understand how it works in theory, but what's the timing of the move? If I do qcf x 2 PP ~ P, I get the super instead of EX COD.

Do it w/o a full meter >_>

But that is the basic command. You basically are cancelling the startup frames of the rekka into an Ultra, kinda like a kara throw.

[Darkyellow]

Thanks for the help. It has to be not full meter?

[shinsatsu]

Thanks for the help. It has to be not full meter?

I'm actually not sure myself, but it's just a safe way of doing it w/o getting the super off instead.

You could possibly do d,df,f+PP,d,df,f+PPP if your hands are fast enough and that would get the same result. Note that you can also kara cancel an EX COD into a super too. Remember that the second move will only come out when you get hit though!

[Darkyellow]

Haha no way are my fingers fast enough to not buffer the second quarter circle forward. Didn't know you could do it into super as well.

[shinsatsu]

Haha no way are my fingers fast enough to not buffer the second quarter circle forward. Didn't know you could do it into super as well.

Works into an EX Air Throw/EX Wheel Kick/EX Tornado Throw/EX Roll as well.

Just throwing that out there.

[Cowman715]

What's a good combo to back people away?

cr.lk 2x but nothing else seems to connect.

[Cowboyday]

I've been trying to mess around a little with some resets/mixup crap. I'm not sure of the potential on it, the best analogy I have for it is 3rd strike Akuma low jab dash under after short tatsu. It's not guaranteed damage like a falling sky etc etc, carries all the same risks as any reset in any game... but I'm trying to play this shit like Mags

Cr. Fierce x short roll, 1hit cr. fierce x short or forward roll.
Short ends up right in front of them, forward crosses up

Cr. Fierce x short roll, jump towards jab
lands right in front of them, throw or meaty low strong/ towards+forward

Thoughts and comments?

[hold dat]

What's a good combo to back people away?

cr.lk 2x but nothing else seems to connect.

you could also do cr.lk 4x , standing lk. all five hits connect. the damage from those five hits is about as muCh as a fierce punch

standing roundhouse can be a good poke at times also imo

[Cowman715]

Thanks a lot! That lil combo helps out so much

[BustaBust]

to cowboyday:
oh man you are using my mix up games! good shit and if you didnt learn it from me FUCKING AWESOME man. also the jump jab after the roll might not work against good players, watch out cuz a lot of players have good anti air solutions.

cowman:
you can also do f+mk cr.lk, cr.lp (x2 depending on the character) and then st.mp.

[hold dat]

cowman:
you can also do f+mk cr.lk, cr.lp (x2 depending on the character) and then st.mp.

really? hmmm i havent thought of this one...its dirty. and i like it :wink:

[BustaBust]

Thanks for the help. It has to be not full meter?

ya it HAS to be not full super because if you do qcf x2 and a punch you get super instead of rekka.

[Icege]

After messing around in training mode some, seems like it's best to not cancel into super off of rekka, or FADC off of rekka unless you're sitting on an ultra unless you're gangsta with f+mk into close s.hp.

Reason for not supering is you do more damage without hitting the rekka.

Cowboy: That's what early Japanese vids were doing, though I never thought of jump jab. I've hit jump mk once in a blue moon. I'll have to try with the jump jab instead. I like doing the roll mix-ups though once people are afraid to mash :)


What are y'all doing after air-to-air fierce or forward? Currently I land, dash under and mix up:
c.lk, c.lpx2, s.lk
close s.hp (1) xx qcf+mp xx FADC, c.hp, Ultra
c.hp xx shenigans
CH lv1FA xx dash, follow-up
f+mk xx dash, follow-ups
EX or regular Tornado Throw

[windbreaka]

WOW! Lots of amazing tips and tricks here. Thank you all!

Cowboyday: I'm definitely going to try those. I love the idea of weird mix-ups. Thank you.

hold dat: Thank you for that "cr.lk 4x , standing lk." Do the number of cr. lk change depending on character? I was trying it on Ryu in training mode, and I could only do 3 cr. lk to st. lk

Bustabust: Thank you very much for answering my question earlier about - rekka > FADC > c. hp. I'm definitely gonna try "f+mk cr.lk, cr.lp (x2 depending on the character) and then st.mp."

Now just some general questions:

Is there any other reason to perform "rekka > FADC > c. hp" unless if you have an ultra ready? If I was to end the combo with a roll to Falling Sky, then it seems like too much technical work for that much more minuscule damage.

I have yet to use Rekka > Second Low > Finish Low. Does this ever come into play? For some odd reason, Capcom decided that Second Low and Finish Low will not be a combo. Perhaps they added it for some high/low mix up purpose? Second Mid is overhead, so Second Low is low. Second Mid is high I think, is Second Low, low?

I'm so just so grateful for all the members of shoryuken community. I used to read around combos for MVC2 and strats for 3s/CVS2, but I think SF4 forums have been incredibly gracious with helping newcomers (like myself). So thank you.

[ssjtin]

The second low doesn't combo because there would be no point if you get the first hit, what's wrong with just going high high for the damage...

Although it hasn't happened to me, I'm told you can be thrown on block of the first hit or reversal'd by shoryu type moves. Since it never happens to me, I haven't been able to test out if you do it from max range=ish, are you safe from being thrown. If so, it would make someone who can't reversal a 50/50 shot at damage on the second hit.

Also found out it seems if you jump over Akuma's ultra, you can't seem to ultra when you land behind him, he seems to recovery too quickly. I'll try COD next time.

Busta have you had any success with AA as an antiair, it never works for me always trading.

[Fulaani]

Busta, I checked the frame data, you mentioned things like cr.lp after a f+mk, f. I don't see how it can combo if the frame data is correct. st.fp is 4 frames are seems to be just fast enough for it to be a one frame link, everything else is slower than that.

I've also trid a bunch of times and can only get st.fp to combo. Have you combo'd stuff like cr.lp?

I've been trying to mess around a little with some resets/mixup crap. I'm not sure of the potential on it, the best analogy I have for it is 3rd strike Akuma low jab dash under after short tatsu. It's not guaranteed damage like a falling sky etc etc, carries all the same risks as any reset in any game... but I'm trying to play this shit like Mags

Cr. Fierce x short roll, 1hit cr. fierce x short or forward roll.
Short ends up right in front of them, forward crosses up

Cr. Fierce x short roll, jump towards jab
lands right in front of them, throw or meaty low strong/ towards+forward

Thoughts and comments?
A friend of mine does that shit ALL day and it confuses the crap out of people, messing up reversals not knowing where he's gonna end up. I love it haha. He usually does st.jab xx roll for the reset though, he tells me you hits after the reset will be more meaty this way. I can't confirm that though.

I also like to add in cr.fp xx rh roll st.jab xx lk roll. It'll cross up up twice for some extra confusion :wgrin:

In response to the last question, maybe it's because the players here suck but the guy i mentioned he uses rekka FADCs just to get to the whole reset mixup business. It may not be guaranteed dmg but there are a bunch of options so if you mix it up you it'll usually net you some nice dmg.

I would use those resets but Im just not confortable with the character yet. Afraid i'll mess up the continuous string of inputs. Can't wait till I get more feel with Abel and use all that nasty stuff.

[Reipin Pillage]

Something simple you can do to cross up super is to do a short kick roll while right next to them and then do another fireball motion but with the jab punch. The roll obviously crosses up and it will immediately activate the super as you come out of the roll. Doing it with jab gives you the hit invincibility at start up.

[Icege]

The second low doesn't combo because there would be no point if you get the first hit, what's wrong with just going high high for the damage...

Although it hasn't happened to me, I'm told you can be thrown on block of the first hit or reversal'd by shoryu type moves. Since it never happens to me, I haven't been able to test out if you do it from max range=ish, are you safe from being thrown. If so, it would make someone who can't reversal a 50/50 shot at damage on the second hit.

Also found out it seems if you jump over Akuma's ultra, you can't seem to ultra when you land behind him, he seems to recovery too quickly. I'll try COD next time.

Busta have you had any success with AA as an antiair, it never works for me always trading.

on block, rekkas are -9 (LP) and -3 (the rest, including EX). I've been hit with reversal flaming kick by Fei Long after trying to just block after a blocked hit. I think it was jab, but it might have been a strong rekka.

As for Zangief, I've read he's apparently not supposed to be that hard for Abel as well, but I'm also not seeing exactly where people are getting this idea.

I played against a pretty good Gen last night for awhile. I'm at a loss on what to do, especially since I never played Alpha. He'd run and sit full screen all day, then wait to try and poke me while in Mantis or switch to Crane really quick to cross me up. That cross-up is retarded. It didn't help that we'd lag at times and I wouldn't be able to block c.lk after a blocked jump in sometimes.

His jump stupid fast. Everytime I'd try for a tick throw, he was able to just jump back freely. I'd try to meet him air to air at times which would sometimes work, but he beat all of my anti-air options. Granted it was online so it's much harder to just see them and reflexively pop them out with a normal, but the guy I played told me he only got beat out by Cannon Spikes and Tiger Uppercuts. He did say that Skyfall scared the shit out of him when it connected for some reason and made him afraid to jump.

Otherwise, I spent the whole match trying to Wheel Kick and Roll to get in or build meter. It's a frustrating match-up. Gen's also kind of thin, so a lot of times I'd go for cross up and misread the spacing, whiff, and get thrown :( Anybody know what to do in this match up?

[AtTheGates]

as you all know, comboing from c.HP into ultra in the corner isn't easy or even guaranteed.

here's a list taken from http://wiki.hardedge.org/index.php/Abel(SF4):_charakterspezifische_Combos

Sagat: easy
Zangief: hard
Chun Li: hard
Dhalsim: easy
Abel: hard
Guile: hard
Boxer: intermediate
Blanka: intermediate
Gouki: intermediate

Cammy: intermediate
Fei: intermediate
Sakura: very hard
Rose: easy


also, a list for f.MK -> dash cancel, HP against crouching opponents:

Abel
Sagat
Zangief
Boxer
Fuerte (note: not possible from max range)

Sakura
Gen
Gouken
Fei Long


against the following characters, close HP whiffs against crouching even if it is the first hit:

Chun Li
Blanka
Honda
Guile
Claw
Viper
Fuerte

Cammy
Sakura
Gen

[BustaBust]

to fulaani:
i guess it has to be on counter hit. to be honest i havent really played any sf4 this week and last week since i am so fucking broke so instead i am contributing on this thread. also when you say your friend does cr.fp roll st.jab roll to reset its the same thing, cr.fp roll cr.fp roll resets also. eh im noob at frame data shit but f+mk on hit leaves u at -1 it is POSITIVE that you can connect f+mk cr.lk right? cr.lk takes 5 frames just like cr.lp so shouldnt it mean it can combo? anyways correct me if im wrong i wouldnt be surprised if i was hah

to ssjtin:
to get the ultra after akuma misses his you have to jump with him. here is a pretty old vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KxSxJbVvhs its at around 1:35 or something
also the falling sky AA, to be honest i havent found the best of uses since i really want to experiment with it but i dont have a console.

[Fulaani]

to fulaani:
i guess it has to be on counter hit. to be honest i havent really played any sf4 this week and last week since i am so fucking broke so instead i am contributing on this thread. also when you say your friend does cr.fp roll st.jab roll to reset its the same thing, cr.fp roll cr.fp roll resets also. eh im noob at frame data shit but f+mk on hit leaves u at -1 it is POSITIVE that you can connect f+mk cr.lk right? cr.lk takes 5 frames just like cr.lp so shouldnt it mean it can combo? anyways correct me if im wrong i wouldnt be surprised if i was hah
I'm gonna play around with resets a little bit in training mode, there are a bunch of ways that i think are pretty valid. Mixing them up leaves your opp. guessing where you will end up.

On the frame data, I understand it pretty well cause I'm a VF head. But, the frame data released for this game is a little wonky honestly. f+mk gives you +3 on hit, st.fp comes out in 4 frames but it combos, hence the wonkyness.

Right now I'm guessing f+mk, f, st.fp is your only option on normal hit, and it seems to be a 1 frame link to me (hence the difficulty). But on counterhit I can see how a bunch of other stuff should connect as it gives you more advantage.

Anyways don't take my word for it, as I said the frame data looks a little wonkey and I could be off. Add to that the fact that I'm terrible at sf4 :(.

[windbreaka]

The second low doesn't combo because there would be no point if you get the first hit, what's wrong with just going high high for the damage...

I was thinking perhaps you can throw in Second Low on blocked rekka. Almost all people I play against so far always crouch block the rekka string, so they eat the Second Mid and Finish Mid. At some point I'll match-up against people who will quickly learn to block Second Mid high. At which point, I think you can use Second Low (but very rarely) to trick 'em.

I recently saw a Shiro match where he used a Second Low, thinking that his EX rekka will be blocked, and he will catch his opponent off guard with his Second Low. His Ex rekka did hit, so it isn't exactly the situation I was describing, but demonstrated nonetheless. This can be seen couple of seconds before 9 minute mark of this video:
http://gamenyarth.blog67.fc2.com/blog-entry-4926.html?id=sm6187312

I'm still not sure whether this is a viable strategy.

[MookieRah]

At some point I'll match-up against people who will quickly learn to block Second Mid high.
More than likely you'll run into people who EX you out of it. I am also fairly sure that you can be shoryukened after they blocked the first or second hit. Blah, if only COD were a little bit safer... It'd be nice to use it as another way to approach someone, similar to Boxer's game with the dash straights.

[Fulaani]

I was watching videos and playing around with tonight as I said I would lol. And I'm positive st.lp is better.

With cr.fp xx roll cr.fp xx roll resets. If you do this is seems the opponent has plenty time to interupt your followups. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMm60VmCC-Q Here Busta gets beat by a non reversal ex upball after the reset, first round. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr8cvhpJy5M In this match vs blanka Busta gets beat by non reversal elec after the reset. (im so sorry to use your vids as examples busta).

If you use st.lp xx roll to reset you will recover much much earlier and your followups after the reset will be meaty, forcing the opponent to do a proper reversal. If he doesn't get the reversal message he's screwed.

I feel like a douchebag using bustas vids as an example as Busta would wreck me in a match but I really think st.lp puts you in a much better situation as opposed to cr.fp.

[AtTheGates]

On the frame data, I understand it pretty well cause I'm a VF head. But, the frame data released for this game is a little wonky honestly. f+mk gives you +3 on hit, st.fp comes out in 4 frames but it combos, hence the wonkyness.


nothing wonky about the +3, i guess the dash cancel isn't calculated in.

the japanese mook suggests to drum from HP to LP to get another chance to link an attack after f+MK. the only problem is, if you do that, LP has to be canceled extremely fast to COD, so fast that it would probably not come out if you hit with HP in the first place.

[BustaBust]

lol i dont care that u use my vids for examples. also though take into consideration that really this mix up is REALLY good against blanka. what you do is cr.fp , mk or rh roll reset and mk or rh roll again. the only thing he will do is either up ball or electricty most likely. if he does up ball free ultra. either mix up is good, i have actually been using the st.lp lately (or the few times i have gone to the arcade lately) and it works great too.

[BustaBust]

yes SA and FA are the same thing if anyone is confused.

[el_diablo]

nothing wonky about the +3, i guess the dash cancel isn't calculated in.

Yes, that's it. f+mk dash recovers 1 frame faster than normal f+mk. It becomes +4 on hit and only stand lp and stand hp have a 4 frames startup. So cr.lp won't work without a counter hit.


If you use st.lp xx roll to reset you will recover much much earlier and your followups after the reset will be meaty, forcing the opponent to do a proper reversal. If he doesn't get the reversal message he's screwed.

But wouldn't that give your opponent more time to see what side you're on? Unless you can walk crossup again before he lands. It's more ambigous with a stand hp x roll I think.

[RSDeathscythe]

I've been messing around with elbow and I was wondering if I should do elbow to ex wheel kick. Should I just save meter?

[Fulaani]

But wouldn't that give your opponent more time to see what side you're on? Unless you can walk crossup again before he lands. It's more ambigous with a stand hp x roll I think.
*edit* maybe, but the fact that your opp needs a reversal is a pretty good benefit.

Should always be mixing it up i think.

[kal el]

Damn I'm so late to the party!

I played Third Strike extensively but I wasn't really into SF4 until it came out on console. Sad to say but I'm getting my ass handed to me.

The moment I saw vids of Abel I knew that he would be my new Dudley :lovin:. Thanks to everyone who's posted thus far. It's somewhat overwhelming (since I'm really new to SF4) but hopefully it will kick my Abel game up a notch!

I'll definitely keep my eyes peeled for this section of the forums.

[el_diablo]

*edit* maybe, but the fact that your opp needs a reversal is a pretty good benefit.

Should always be mixing it up i think.

Well seeing that stand hp has the same startup as lp, the timing after the roll should be the same I suppose, which means that a reversal should be needed too for the opponent(in which case stand hp would be better because you get better damage). I'll test that today.

Edit: lp refloats better, you were right. St.hp is a bit better than cr.hp it seems.

[Lionx]

I dont know man, i tried these roll mixups before, and even did it via Alpha 2 Ken style(c.hp over and over into rolls/axe kick), but if someone just tries to SRK, they will beat me pretty easily. It feels like if someone is just spamming SRKs, i feel i am more forced to block (which lets them do what they want) than actually go after any of the mixup opportunities because i been knocked out of them more often than i would have liked.

EX T.Throw gets beat by SRK...sadness...i was really hoping that it would grab them on startup because of hit invulnerability. Maybe its because i am still very new to the game, but SRKs feel really buff in this game.

EDIT: Is EX Roll unthrowable?

[el_diablo]

Ex roll is throw-able(sadly).

I'm pretty sure EX command throw beats shotos jab shoryu but they just have to change the strength to land it. But it seems though that it beats all of sagat's tiger uppercuts but the EX.

[BustaBust]

i dont think it beats any type of uppercut.

[Arkayne17]

i dont think it beats any type of uppercut.

Ive command grabbed out of Shoto uppercuts, tiger uppercuts and knees. You jsut have to know its coming and do it early.

[BustaBust]

if you do it early doesnt it whiff?

edit: its probably not reliable to ex command throw shoto's on their wake up because if it doesnt go as planned, the results are not too good for yourself.

[MookieRah]

Ive command grabbed out of Shoto uppercuts, tiger uppercuts and knees. You jsut have to know its coming and do it early.
Are you sure about that? I don't recall ever beating any type of shoryuken with a command grab. What kind of timing are you using? Do you have vids showcasing it? It would really make Abel even more of a shoto destroying machine if this is true, but until I see some evidence of this I'm going to play it safe.

[kennya]

Can you combo link mp rekka -> sadc -> c.hp ?

Or does it have to be lp rekka?

[noodleman]

you can combo any strength rekka into fadc cr.fp. We use lp mainly cause it's guaranteed to combo off cr.mp. the fp version doesn't combo all teh time (if at all), but i think the mp version combos all the time.

[kennya]

you can combo any strength rekka into fadc cr.fp. We use lp mainly cause it's guaranteed to combo off cr.mp. the fp version doesn't combo all teh time (if at all), but i think the mp version combos all the time.

Thanks! I use mp rekka to combo all the time so this is good to know.

[Arkayne17]

Are you sure about that? I don't recall ever beating any type of shoryuken with a command grab. What kind of timing are you using? Do you have vids showcasing it? It would really make Abel even more of a shoto destroying machine if this is true, but until I see some evidence of this I'm going to play it safe.


Well duh , of course you would want to play it safe. Ill try it in offline but it probably wont work offline i think it was because it was online. I mean Ill still try and see though.

[HvE]

just wondering.

why use the roll to finish most of his combos? is it for the super meter? because you can do the air grab just fine without doing the roll

[noodleman]

it's free meter basically. Though you can't use the fp version for the air grab after the roll. And there's the added possibility of mix ups after the roll. instead of air grab to finish the combo, you can do another cr.fp (1 hit), cancel to another roll (lk or mk) to do soem cross up tricky mix ups.

[DJRedrumofEPG]

Ive command grabbed out of Shoto uppercuts, tiger uppercuts and knees. You jsut have to know its coming and do it early.

Not true for uppercuts. If you do the grab early it whiffs.

I tried this out last night against Cammy's DP, Ken's FP and EX DP, Ryu's DP (all strengths), Gouki's DP, and Gouken's DP. I got the same results. Bam! SRK'd

So Shoryu> Tornado Throw.


just wondering.

why use the roll to finish most of his combos? is it for the super meter? because you can do the air grab just fine without doing the roll

You use the roll to finish combos, but you can also use it for mixup opportunities. Sometimes I'll roll after a combo just to mixup my opponent and get them guessing.

Also, you get meter for it. So while you're styling on someone, you can add in some free meter for your troubles.

[BustaBust]

Well duh , of course you would want to play it safe. Ill try it in offline but it probably wont work offline i think it was because it was online. I mean Ill still try and see though.

it if worked online it should work offline, it really shouldnt make a difference unless the online actually changes the game (lag doesnt count).


Though you can't use the fp version for the air grab after the roll.

yes you can but not on every character. its good to know which characters you can or cant. that way you can just cancel cr.fp into fierce falling sky instead.

[MookieRah]

yes you can but not on every character. its good to know which characters you can or cant.
Is there a list with this info?

Also, are the characteristics of Falling Sky the same as Tornado Throw? By that I mean that the lp has the longest reach, fastest, and does the least damage, mp is in the middle, and fp is the shortest range, slowest, and does the most damage?

[BustaBust]

well fierce has a way longer start up, and it moves forward more so i guess not. lp is like instant and mp is in between. i dont think there is a list but here illt ry to make one right now on the top of my head and you guys can correct me since i rarely play sf4 now.

note timing is a bit strict and is easy to miss

characters you can do it on: (i am doing only the people in the arcade since i havent got to play the console version.)
works on:
ken
ryu
akuma
zangief
sagat
bison
balrog
abel

doesnt:
chun
guile
blanka
el fuerte
c.viper
e.honda
vega

test it out and correct me if im wrong since im really not sure on this list haha. then make a list with the new characters too! that would be awesome

[Icege]

well fierce has a way longer start up, and it moves forward more so i guess not. lp is like instant and mp is in between. i dont think there is a list but here illt ry to make one right now on the top of my head and you guys can correct me since i rarely play sf4 now.

note timing is a bit strict and is easy to miss

characters you can do it on: (i am doing only the people in the arcade since i havent got to play the console version.)
works on:
ken
ryu
akuma
zangief
sagat
bison
balrog
abel

doesnt:
chun
guile
blanka
el fuerte
c.viper
e.honda
vega

test it out and correct me if im wrong since im really not sure on this list haha. then make a list with the new characters too! that would be awesome


To add to this, MP Skyfall is (in my opinion) the best option to use for anti-air if you're actually going to try and use it as anti-air

LP Skyfall is 5f start-up, active for 2.
MP Skyfall is 6f start-up, active for 4.
HP Skyfall is 9f start-up, active for 6.

Only 1f slower than LP but active for twice as long? I'll take it :P

No idea on range differences though. I have randomly caught people with HP Skyfall after c.hp without canceling it. Not very consistently though.

[MookieRah]

Sweet list. I'll try to test it out today if possible. This information has gotten me to think of something else though.

For the characters that you can't roll into HP Falling sky, are you able to :d::hp: > :hp:Falling sky? If so, is the added damage worth it over building the meter?

[BustaBust]

yes you can do cr.fp cancel after 2nd hit into fierce falling sky. its worth it todo fierce falling sky afterwards if you can roll fierce falling sky.

[noodleman]

To add to this, MP Skyfall is (in my opinion) the best option to use for anti-air if you're actually going to try and use it as anti-air

LP Skyfall is 5f start-up, active for 2.
MP Skyfall is 6f start-up, active for 4.
HP Skyfall is 9f start-up, active for 6.

Only 1f slower than LP but active for twice as long? I'll take it :P

No idea on range differences though. I have randomly caught people with HP Skyfall after c.hp without canceling it. Not very consistently though.
it'll never work as an AA since there are no inv. frames to grab someone out of an attack clean. At best you get a trade, which is BAD because you're trading for their attack for a 0 damage move (the falling sky grab doesn't do damage until he pounds the guy to the ground).

[Icege]

it'll never work as an AA since there are no inv. frames to grab someone out of an attack clean. At best you get a trade, which is BAD because you're trading for their attack for a 0 damage move (the falling sky grab doesn't do damage until he pounds the guy to the ground).


To add to this, MP Skyfall is (in my opinion) the best option to use for anti-air if you're actually going to try and use it as anti-air

Bolded/underlined part for emphasis

[Arkayne17]

[quote=BustaBust;6192117]it if worked online it should work offline, it really shouldnt make a difference unless the online actually changes the game (lag doesnt count).

Yeah it will make a difference , you can do things online that you cant actualy do offline. This goes with playing fighters online. Like I know for a fact when Playing online I have to mistime my links and combos sometimes for them to work.

[BustaBust]

so your saying playing online changes the game? i mean the example you stated was you have to mistime your links meaning because it lags? lag or not it should still work online or offline. im not sure what you are saying here so explain a bit more.

[Darkyellow]

Hey Bustabust, I'm still having trouble with the ex rekka cancel into ultra. Just can't seem to get the timing right, and if I try to rapid fire the qcfs, like you said, I get ex falling sky. The thing is I can do Boxer's ex dash punch into ultra an ex dash punch into ex headbutt with almost no problem. Is Abel's ex rekka into ultra harder or on the same page as these two? Also, I was playing my friend today and did ex dash punch into ultra and it cost no meter. I had full super and it stayed that way.

[AtTheGates]

EX skyfall has 5f of hit-invul, it still sucks though as anti air. only useful in combos or stopping the enemy from jumping out of your pressure.

[Icege]

so your saying playing online changes the game? i mean the example you stated was you have to mistime your links meaning because it lags? lag or not it should still work online or offline. im not sure what you are saying here so explain a bit more.

Timing gets thrown off due to latency. Even with muscle memory, there's a chance online of the link not connecting due to lag.

By stuff working online that doesn't work off, he's referring to lag tactics. By that he means people do things that online are difficult to deal with because of how unreliable the connection can be. For example, a C. Viper player can do f+mp, LK Blazing Kick and get away with it constantly at times due to the Abel player having to alter their timing to try and AA or poke them out of the air. Offline, that won't fly. You'll be able to scoop her out of mid air fairly reliably.

Then there's other issues like punishment.

Long story short: You get away with stuff online that you wouldn't off, and while online, you're timing gets thrown off to what it would be offline.

[Voltiare]

I'm sure this is known. It would be silly if it wasn't, but I'll say it anyway.

cr.HP-->light roll-->Super.

I just practiced it and it works perfectly, at least against Ryu. I haven't seen a video online where anyone used it so I thought I would let people know.

[noodleman]

EX skyfall has 5f of hit-invul, it still sucks though as anti air. only useful in combos or stopping the enemy from jumping out of your pressure.
yea, it's useless cause abel only hits on the 6th frame, after the inv is gone.

[Rinsuku]

I'm sure this is known. It would be silly if it wasn't, but I'll say it anyway.

cr.HP-->light roll-->Super.

I just practiced it and it works perfectly, at least against Ryu. I haven't seen a video online where anyone used it so I thought I would let people know.

Yea I sometimes use this combo against my brother. :tup:

[noodleman]

it woudl be beast if the roll filled your super meter just in time for the super :)

i've tried ti enough times with the ultra to think that it doesn't work.

also, i've been sitting in training mode for a while and i still can't get cr.fp, ultra when the opponent is cornered...any tips?

[BustaBust]

if you try to do super or ultra right when you get enough meter it seems to be a bit strict. just practice. ive done it a few times like i let a blanka ball me gained ultra meter and ultra'ed him.

also to iceage: thats exactly what i was talking about though, i mean the only game change as i stated when i first posted about this was lag is the only thing that changes. the game doesnt change and therefore even if there is lag its possible offline when there isnt lag. i mean if you do a move when there is lag you can do it still when there isnt lag. i understand that its easier to get away with stuff online or things dont come out etc. but im just trying to make a point. he said that he did ex command threw an srk online but then says he doesnt know if it will work offline. if he did it it should work whether it was online or off thats all im trying to say.

on a side note guys if you guys have any questions about abel,zangief,dhalsim,or chun please send questions to this! http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=172518
im going to be on a podcast soon and the more questions we get the better. i dont know gief or chun or sim so if you have questions or are having a hard time send questions and ask the players personally! from what i know so far its going to be shogo,sanchez,pherai then guests: me,dae,ultradavid. please send questions! this will make the podcast a lot better and thanks in advance.

[BustaBust]

well fierce has a way longer start up, and it moves forward more so i guess not. lp is like instant and mp is in between. i dont think there is a list but here illt ry to make one right now on the top of my head and you guys can correct me since i rarely play sf4 now.

note timing is a bit strict and is easy to miss

characters you can do it on: (i am doing only the people in the arcade since i havent got to play the console version.)
works on:
ken
ryu
akuma
zangief
sagat
bison
balrog
abel

doesnt:
chun
guile
blanka
el fuerte
c.viper
e.honda
vega

test it out and correct me if im wrong since im really not sure on this list haha. then make a list with the new characters too! that would be awesome

edit after being at the arcade today i tested it on guile and it worked, im actually kinda sure you can do it to e honda and vega too but i need people to confirm.

[FullMetalRoss]

edit after being at the arcade today i tested it on guile and it worked, im actually kinda sure you can do it to e honda and vega too but i need people to confirm.

I got it on everyone. It seemed inconsistent against viper, blanka and fuerte. But everyone else i got it no problem first try. I think on the first three is a weird spacing issue where you need to be a little further than point blank so your roll doesn't take you to close to them. In those cases I would just use lp or mp since the damage difference is marginal.

Edit: didn't test the console characters cause Im lazy.

[BustaBust]

ive never got it on fuerte viper or blanka. but for those ones i just do cr.fp fierce falling sky.

[Arkayne17]

he said that he did ex command threw an srk online but then says he doesnt know if it will work offline. if he did it it should work whether it was online or off thats all im trying to say.


Thats exactly what were trying to say... " Things work online that SHOULD NOT work offline".

[BustaBust]

see thats the thing that confuses me. what makes it not work offline? lag cant really be the answer (but maybe it is). im not trying to argue im just trying to get a clear answer. the reason i say lag cant be the answer because all it is is input delay other than that its the same game. do you get what im saying? its all just input delay but its still teh same game, moves have the same frames etc.

[The Blu Brawler]

If that move worked online, then it defo works offline (y wouldnt it?) same game with no lag.

On another note, heres a combo I like using not sure if its being used by every1 else but ere it is: (Its a brill Starting combo, especially against Ken/Ryu etc.)

Roll, st.lp, st.lp, cr.mp, rekka xx, cr.hp, ex falling sky/Souless.

Well anyways thats my starting combo, and it gets thier health down to about 1/2.

[ssjtin]

I think you guys are using the word "works" in different context. I think what Busta is saying is that anything that can be done physically online and offline should be the same, because input, timing is all the same.

The other guys are saying that due to lag, EX command throw can beat a dragon punch because the dp timing may be off in such a way that it isn't a reversal. Thus that tactic "works" due to the inability of the opponent to get correct timing, not due to any different properties online or anything like that.

Make sense?

[Quon]

sorry for beeing a utterly noob, just joined shoryuken

What does xx mean on certain combos?

Im not sure if its been answered before

[ssjtin]

xx means cancel into

[Icege]

I think you guys are using the word "works" in different context. I think what Busta is saying is that anything that can be done physically online and offline should be the same, because input, timing is all the same.

The other guys are saying that due to lag, EX command throw can beat a dragon punch because the dp timing may be off in such a way that it isn't a reversal. Thus that tactic "works" due to the inability of the opponent to get correct timing, not due to any different properties online or anything like that.

Make sense?

I think that's what is meant by it as well.

The tactic works well online. The move works regardless?

*just as lost*

[ssjtin]

Here are the facts as I see it. EX command has armour. Ryu's DP, and I don't know about Ken's but I'm guessing its the same, has armour break properties only on reversal, that is immediately after getting hit, or immediately after you wakeup. Therefore, given the opponent times the DP correctly, Abel's EX command should ALWAYS LOSE, online or offline.

The only difference in online is due to lag the opponent maybe be too late and miss the reversal window, therefore the DP doesn't have armour break and abel should EX grab through.

[SuupaBuu]

Abel's EX command grab does NOT have armor. It has hit invulnerability. I've EX grabbed too many people following their jump-ins/cross-ups based on that. It has too short of a start-up to take advantage of any sort of armor capabilities.

With that said, if timed correctly, you can ex command grab RYU's non-ex shoryuken. I don't know if you have to do it before he starts it up, or during, but it's possible. I've done it in training mode with some help, and I've actually done it at the arcade yesterday and last week. I've seen the SRK trail on his fist before he left the ground on one, and the one last night was from his srk start-up animation; the same when I tried it in training mode.

[Icege]

What ARE the exact properties on the Command Grab and EX?

If you're doing a command grab, you can't be grabbed once it starts up, correct? What about during recovery? The EX version is invulnerable to being hit, and that's what makes EX Tornado Throw against Gief so good, correct? Because he can't throw OR hit you out of it? I know all three versions give you the same amount of super, have the same start-up speed and active window. However, the stronger the button the more damage and stun it does along with recovering faster. I'm going to assume jab version has the best range though?

[BustaBust]

okay i was told from a few players i know personally taht this is possible but too hard and not worth it. you have to catch the player in the vulernable frames of the srk.

all i was trying to state that if it works online it should work offline give me a better reason than lag, all lag is like i said before is input delay other than that its all the same game. he did specify if it was reversal srk or not.

these are his words that still confuse me and i still havent gotten a clear answer.
Ill try it in offline but it probably wont work offline i think it was because it was online.
he did it online, but says he will try it offline but it wont work. what does he mean by that? so far every time i have posted about this my replies say something along the lines because of lag and that doesnt make sense that if it was just lag why cant you do it offline? i have been confirmed that you can do it offline by some players that i personally know.

[Arkayne17]

okay i was told from a few players i know personally taht this is possible but too hard and not worth it. you have to catch the player in the vulernable frames of the srk.

all i was trying to state that if it works online it should work offline give me a better reason than lag, all lag is like i said before is input delay other than that its all the same game. he did specify if it was reversal srk or not.

these are his words that still confuse me and i still havent gotten a clear answer.
Ill try it in offline but it probably wont work offline I never said IT WOULDNT WORK. i said I think it was because it was online.
he did it online, but says he will try it offline but it wont work. what does he mean by that? so far every time i have posted about this my replies say something along the lines because of lag and that doesnt make sense that if it was just lag why cant you do it offline? i have been confirmed that you can do it offline by some players that i personally know.


I said I will try it offline but it probably wont work. What I mean by that is.. like iVe said for the thousandth time. Things work online that shouldnt. Ok then dude.. why did this problem come up then? I said I did.. then what did you say? " Something along the lines of "I dont think you can do that"... Now because someone else says tells you that you can.. after I already said you can porbably do it now all of sudden you beleive it?? Backwards logic I see here.

[BustaBust]

okay when i posted that i really didnt think you can do that but i recently asked around from the local socal players that i play with they told me you can but its very hard. okay give me an example of things work online that shouldnt offline. to me that doesnt make sense and i have asked my friends and they too say this doesnt make sense. the only thing they say is lag but clearly lag does not change the game just input delay. do you get what i am saying? that even if ex command throw an srk worked online it should work offline because if you think about it the game hasnt changed, okay input delay, your move comes out a little later but it still has the same properties and stuff. not backwards logic here i just wasnt sure about this hah. yet now you say that you never said it wouldnt work but i keep getting "things work online that shouldnt work offline" so your still telling me that it doesnt work offline? doesnt make sense. just trying to clear this out. it works online and offline and it isnt worth it cuz in most cases if you tried this you would lose and eat an srk.

[Arkayne17]

okay when i posted that i really didnt think you can do that but i recently asked around from the local socal players that i play with they told me you can but its very hard. okay give me an example of things work online that shouldnt offline. to me that doesnt make sense and i have asked my friends and they too say this doesnt make sense. the only thing they say is lag but clearly lag does not change the game just input delay. do you get what i am saying? that even if ex command throw an srk worked online it should work offline because if you think about it the game hasnt changed, okay input delay, your move comes out a little later but it still has the same properties and stuff. not backwards logic here i just wasnt sure about this hah. yet now you say that you never said it wouldnt work but i keep getting "things work online that shouldnt work offline" so your still telling me that it doesnt work offline? doesnt make sense. just trying to clear this out. it works online and offline and it isnt worth it cuz in most cases if you tried this you would lose and eat an srk.

Because of lag , inpt delay happens meaning. I can do things in that input delay window that will not work normally offline.. there would potentially be no input delay. Meaning that lets say Online I do.... EX Wheel kick Something along the lines could potentially happen where I could be grabbed or something while the move is already in the middle of hitting them to the point they should not be able to do anything.
(But this is potentially a instance where lag or something could affect the correct gameplay mechanincs)

No well now I do beleive it will work offline and online for that matter , Considering I was the only person who said it could happen up until now. I still was half way correct from the beginning I thought it only worked in an online cirsumstance due to the lag in the match. But now that I have a verification instance that it does potentially work offline lets me know I potentially was not wrong.

No, im not telling you it doesnt work offline.. I myself have never tested it offline or rather not gotten a chance to.

Lag can do mysterious things in world of online gameplay....

[el_diablo]

okay i was told from a few players i know personally taht this is possible but too hard and not worth it. you have to catch the player in the vulernable frames of the srk.

Yes, you can only land it on one exact frame.

[BustaBust]

^ ya thats what i was told. dont rely on this though its nice to know but really i will not apply this to my game.

[el_diablo]

Well, sometimes it's worth it. Abel is all about intimidation to me. You need to make your opponent believe that he is trapped when you're close. If you can grab a shoryu when a shoto has no ultra, it will make him think twice about doing a wakeup shoryu for the whole round, making your life simplier. It might even be worth doing it again a shotos having 2 ex's and an ultra, because it will frighten him if you grab him and he probably won't try it again for the match. Not something to rely on, but definately a good and useful tool.

[The Blu Brawler]

Can any1 tell me what kara means? I think its sumthin like cr.lk, (cancel the animation) throw. Am I right?

[remz-92]

Kara is the act of using a canceled attack animation to boost the range of your throw.

[The Blu Brawler]

Kara is the act of using a canceled attack animation to boost the range of your throw.

Thx m8, at least the people on the Abel forums are not ####s, unlike some of the other character threads. (cough....Gen....cough)

[Arkayne17]

Well, sometimes it's worth it. Abel is all about intimidation to me. You need to make your opponent believe that he is trapped when you're close. If you can grab a shoryu when a shoto has no ultra, it will make him think twice about doing a wakeup shoryu for the whole round, making your life simplier. It might even be worth doing it again a shotos having 2 ex's and an ultra, because it will frighten him if you grab him and he probably won't try it again for the match. Not something to rely on, but definately a good and useful tool.

But I can see what busta means.. its a high risk for potentially no reward. If you ask me command grabbing shoryus are a HUUGE shot in the dark.

[el_diablo]

Oh, but I do agree. I'm just saying that doing it randomly for the psychological effect can be worth it once in a while.

[BustaBust]

ya you have 1 opening and 1 frame EXACT to do it. you know how hard that is? when you can just block and punish or if you tried to ex command grab and it didnt work you will be eating srk fadc ultra from ryu. of course that would be useful but you will not be able to do it consistently at all.

[ssjtin]

Busta is correct, it'd be better to block and punish.

So Busta is the reason for the 1 frame window that the shoryuken only has one frame startup and then they're throw invincible? If so, shouldn't the window actually be the length of active frames for EX tornado? As in as long as their 1 frame start up of the srk happens anywhere during the active frames it should grab?

[Ghostmaker]

I don't think it's so much that they're throw invincible after that 1 frame. The game probably just recognizes them as being off the ground at that point. Also, is the EX even invulnerable through the entirety of its active frames?

[mrshmearo]

I seriously can't do cr.fp to Ultra. That's a problem! Can anyone help me wit this? It may be my timing.

[hfz69]

I seriously can't do cr.fp to Ultra. That's a problem! Can anyone help me wit this? It may be my timing.

Indeed it is a problem! :p. and yes it is the timing, just work on that i guess. After the 2nd hit of cr.hp "almost" immediately input the command, I dont really know how to say it, you'll know the timing once you get it the first time...

edited: maybe hit/release the 3P when the opp has reached the peak and just about starting to go down...

[ssjtin]

OK about EX tornado vs wakeup shoryuken. It has 5 frames start up, active for 2, and hit invincibility for frames 1-6 according to the frame data thread.

So, as long as the opponent wakeups and and has their 1 frame srk start up during those two active frames, it should work am I right? So that would be a 2 frame window, opposed to a 1 frame window as Busta stated.

Also, has anyone had the shoryuken just go through the invincibility frames and both attacks whiff?

[grumpy64]

how do i combo from a standing hard punch into his change of direction? i've tried starting the qcf motion as the first hit of The standing HP ends and the second hit starts but the cod comes out much to slow to be a combo.

[ssjtin]

I think it has to be a close standing hard punch. The timing isn't very strict at all you have plenty of time to do the fireball motion, I don't know what to say get in the training room.

[hfz69]

close standing(either from crossup j.mk or f.mk dash), press hp (hold) immediately do qcf motion then release hp.

that should work, i think.

[g0th1k4]

Hi I have a question

Abel's final hit ie the throw, on his Change of Direction I realized has armour breaking properties. Sometimes after the opponent has blocked too much the throw breaks their armour and they get thrown.

My question is, is there anyway to know when the armour is gona break or how many hits it takes?

In games like blazblue or like even soul calibur iv you know when the armour is about to break but is there a way to determine that in sf4?

[BustaBust]

its not because the opponent is blocking too much, its because they are trying to do something but the final high of CoD breaks armor. there is no such thing as this in sf4.

[noodleman]

Indeed it is a problem! :p. and yes it is the timing, just work on that i guess. After the 2nd hit of cr.hp "almost" immediately input the command, I dont really know how to say it, you'll know the timing once you get it the first time...

edited: maybe hit/release the 3P when the opp has reached the peak and just about starting to go down...
i personally found it easier to do it later rather than almost immediately.

this video is actually excellent for seeing/hearing the timing involved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoKaCsYyHLM#t=3m03s

The first time he did it too fast and it whiffs, second time he does it noticeably later and gets the combo down. Just keep practicing the timing and eventually it'll be second nature.

[odnas]

i personally found it easier to do it later rather than almost immediately.

this video is actually excellent for seeing/hearing the timing involved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoKaCsYyHLM#t=3m03s

The first time he did it too fast and it whiffs, second time he does it noticeably later and gets the combo down. Just keep practicing the timing and eventually it'll be second nature.

I agree, when I do it my qcfs are pretty slow.

[hfz69]

lol ok then i guess i just picked the wrong word, but yeah what i edited in should be proper enough for timing...

[oiramed]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b149/oiramed/Untitled-4.jpg


i always know if my ultra hits or not after the c.hp...if the enemy player is between
those black line when the screen pauses and the camera zooms to you its a
success..above or lower than that... surely you will go through or the body fall 1st..
its like a hitbox...lol just imo...

[grumpy64]

close standing(either from crossup j.mk or f.mk dash), press hp (hold) immediately do qcf motion then release hp.

that should work, i think.

i will try your way later today. Not sure why that simple combo gives me so much trouble. I can do ryu's Jumping HP,C.MPx2,Crouching HK around 50 percent off the time which is rated as a much more difficult combo yet i have never done abel's HP,cod

[BustaBust]

are you sure you are canceling hp after the 1st hit? and i suck at negative edge or w/e i just double tap and that makes it seem easier for me.

[noodleman]

i always know if my ultra hits or not after the c.hp...if the enemy player is between
those black line when the screen pauses and the camera zooms to you its a
success..above or lower than that... surely you will go through or the body fall 1st..
its like a hitbox...lol just imo...
what about in the corner?

[Stevefox88]

i love abel and his tyle?? some new good combos??

[hadoken_mofo]

im a total noob. what does "xx" mean? is only a "pause for a second" or a FADC?

[BustaBust]

xx is cancel. so like f+mk dash st.fp xx (meaning canceling the move or in this case canceling after the first hit) CoD.

edit: also guys sorry but i will be posting this every once in awhile but i will be featured on the denjin arcade podcast (possibly tomorrow or thursday) with Shogo/Sanchez/Pherai/Bebop and i am a guest along with UltraDavid (zangief/dhalsim user), dae (chun user) and myself (abel) and if you guys have any general questions, strategy questions or anything that we can answer send them here! http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=172518&page=3 send some questions folks. it might be better to get insight from gief/sim/chun users instead of just my views etc. the more questions you send the better the podcast will be! its a new podcast, 1 episode so far so listen up and send some questions. just send an email or post in the thread!

[hadoken_mofo]

Abel is such an amazing new character to use. Im used to using ken or ryu, so this guy to me is like playing a brand new game. Im really into MMA also, so i think that is why i made the change.

Abel is really about practice and timing. You have to have a game plan and stick to it. I spent 3 hours in the training room just to practice his cr.hp to ultra and a few other combos, just so i can figure out the timing.

He is the most difficult character i have ever used, and i like patience and practice you need to use him well.

[Darkyellow]

I found CvS2 links way harder than this, but that's just me. Took me like an hour to consistently get crouch short crouch short xx short ja'eiken with Geese. It'll come to you though, as long as you practice. Once you get it committed to muscle memory you're fine.

@Bustabust Those crouch fierce roll resets are great! Also, I don't know if you answered my question regarding the ex rekka armor cancel or not. I still have problems doing it like a kara motion. As a point of reference, I can do Boxer's Armor cancels no problem. What should I be trying to do?

[BustaBust]

um look in the ex armor tricks thread, others have found different methods and that might help you. either that or just do the qcf qcf PP ~ P. if you are getting ex falling sky you are not putting the stick back to neutral when you do qcf qcf.

edit: also guys sorry but i will be posting this every once in awhile but i will be featured on the denjin arcade podcast (possibly tomorrow or thursday) with Shogo/Sanchez/Pherai/Bebop and i am a guest along with UltraDavid (zangief/dhalsim user), dae (chun user) and myself (abel) and if you guys have any general questions, strategy questions or anything that we can answer send them here! http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=172518&page=3 send some questions folks. it might be better to get insight from gief/sim/chun users instead of just my views etc. the more questions you send the better the podcast will be! its a new podcast, 1 episode so far so listen up and send some questions. post in the thread or send an email with a question! post up if you want to send a question since i will be going on very soon.

[grumpy64]

are you sure you are canceling hp after the 1st hit? and i suck at negative edge or w/e i just double tap and that makes it seem easier for me.
i am embarrassed to show my ignorance but canceling just means you do a move before the previous move is done animating ?

[BustaBust]

yea pretty much.

[Darkyellow]

My bad, I didn't know that the Armor tricks thread was still around, since this one came out. I've done the armor cancel into ultra with Boxer and have had it take up no ex meter before. Not even the meter that should have been used for the ex dash punch was used up. Have you ever had something like that with Abel's armor cancel?

[BustaBust]

abel and balrog's armor tricks thing is the same thing, it doesnt waste the meter. ive done ex rekka kara cancel ex roll before and it only wasted 1 meter. its the same thing as balrog

[Darkyellow]

I understand that, but I'm talking about wasting none entirely. I got the ex dash punch for free.

[Bastion]

can we start a list of places where c.hp should hit but doesnt? maybe this list can be added to the first page. lol. this move pisses me off so much. cross-up j.mk, c.hp only hits for one hit on shotos. The recovery of Kens ultra cant CANT be hit at all by a c.hp from behind. I'll keep posting more bizarreness as i see it. I encourage everyone else to.

[Arkayne17]

can we start a list of places where c.hp should hit but doesnt? maybe this list can be added to the first page. lol. this move pisses me off so much. cross-up j.mk, c.hp only hits for one hit on shotos. The recovery of Kens ultra cant CANT be hit at all by a c.hp from behind. I'll keep posting more bizarreness as i see it. I encourage everyone else to.

It all depends on the spacing and the situation your putting yourself into where the c.hp only hit 1 time.

I can get 2 hits on shotos often matter of fact.

[BustaBust]

I understand that, but I'm talking about wasting none entirely. I got the ex dash punch for free.

so you did ex dash punch kara dash punch? or ex dash punch kara ex dash punch? cuz doing ex rekka kara ultra does not waste meter.

[Cowman715]

Guys I'm having a problem. Not with any character in specific... just retards that jump around constantly. I don't know how to corner them (specially if they're a chun or akuma) and since Abel has no projectiles I'm not sure how to get them cornered. Should I just turtle until they stop?

[Bastion]

Guys I'm having a problem. Not with any character in specific... just retards that jump around constantly. I don't know how to corner them (specially if they're a chun or akuma) and since Abel has no projectiles I'm not sure how to get them cornered. Should I just turtle until they stop?
Yeah, this can be annoying. You just have to be smart about what your doing. If they are constantly jumping back do a few jab falling skys to build meter. J.hp, and j.mk in the right places. Perfectly timed rolls. And if you have ultra meter you need to perfectly time and space an ultra so they land on it. Wheel kicks can help to, but they can be real iffy sometimes.

[Bastion]

It all depends on the spacing and the situation your putting yourself into where the c.hp only hit 1 time.

I can get 2 hits on shotos often matter of fact.
True, if its deep enough.

[MagnetoManiac]

Can someone direct me to a post with resets please? I've been messing around with Abel and his resets are super cool, should be fun to use in casuals :smile: .

[Darkyellow]

Page 4 of this thread

[Darkyellow]

What do you guys think of crouch short xx crouch jab x3 xx dash? I really like using this block string on an opponent that's waking up, it keeps you close for a command grab, and the dash usually allows me to bait a shoryu.

[yillin]

I think you should trade in one of those c.jabs for a f+mk.

Also today, I was fighting dhalsim. He did a wake-up ultra as i tried to tornado grab him. His ultra went off as a reversal but the best part is that I then proceeded to still grab him and throw him without being burned. I think it was an EX-tornado but I can't remember.

[Darkyellow]

The thing is people I play with expect the dash cancel after the toward forward, so doing it from the jab surprises them and puts them in shoryu mode

[yillin]

If you do it right though, they can expect the dash all day long since our next hit can combo as well.

[Darkyellow]

Are you saying that you can link toward forward from crouch jab?

[Cowboyday]

Are you saying that you can link toward forward from crouch jab?

Only on counter hit

[mrAgua]

I think you should trade in one of those c.jabs for a f+mk.

Also today, I was fighting dhalsim. He did a wake-up ultra as i tried to tornado grab him. His ultra went off as a reversal but the best part is that I then proceeded to still grab him and throw him without being burned. I think it was an EX-tornado but I can't remember.

That tornado throw has weird properties... On several occasions I have attempted to tornado throw someone on wakeup and proceeded to eat a jab or another random hit first then immediately after they get thrown. Shouldn't my input have been cancelled?

*EDIT* they were the ones grounded not me

[yillin]

I only wish That dhalsim could get burned by his own giant fireball cause thats where my throw put him, right into the fire. It would've rocked so hard if the fight finished with him eating his own ultra.

[RaMpaGe 2o6]

ive gotten every single combo down to like 95% accuracy except the f-mk in to standing fp to mp rekka combo. for some reason i cant combo into the standing fierce after the fwd dash mk. i spent a great deal of time in training mode trying to get the timing down right now i say im about 30% on this combo. this would greatly increase my arsenal with abel as i have most of his combos embedded into my muscle memory.

[NING726]

what the hell is SA3?

[Arkayne17]

what the hell is SA3?

Most likely level 3 saving attack , SA3 usually refers to the 3rd super art in 3rd strike.

[hfz69]

yes it is saving attack level3(unblockable)

[MrHits]

That tornado throw has weird properties... On several occasions I have attempted to tornado throw someone on wakeup and proceeded to eat a jab or another random hit first then immediately after they get thrown. Shouldn't my input have been cancelled?

*EDIT* they were the ones grounded not me

Well the regular tornado throw beats out all other throws. The ex one beats out most moves (not shoryu) but not throws. So maybe that's why you've been getting mixed results?

[Havik]

What about this?

cr.HP, EX fdf P

Does this one work?

cr.HP,Ultra

cross up Mk, HP, super.

jsut a few iknow off the top of my head.

[Arkayne17]

-CR.mp-> LP COD -> EXFC(FADC)->Cr.HP->

* lk roll ->falling sky
* lk roll -> super


- Ill decipher more soon...

[BustaBust]

cr.HP, EX fdf P

the cr.hp ex falling sky does work but its not worth it because you waste meter and fierce falling sky does the same amount of damage and does more stun than ex.

[Havik]

Thanks brust I knew that was wasting bar, so I just do the normal falling sky.

[Kelgar]

I don't understand what's the point in doing c.fp> roll> air grab instead of just doing c.fp>air grab. Enlight me please.

oh, and probably everyone already know but just in case: today I command grab'd dhalsim through his ultra :)

edit:ok, someone already said that a few posts ago.

[Fulaani]

roll generates meter.

[BustaBust]

yes rolling gives you meter, know which ones you can cr.fp roll fierce airthrow too (which seems to be most of the cast, well the arcade cast at least except for like dhalsim). also command grabbing dhalsims ultra is not new, ive discovered this long ago hah. nobody read the abel threads back then though...

[hotdamnitsryan]

Havik, the jMK into HP works, but I think you would be better off with a more reliable combo.

Not often will you have a full bar, and even if you did, you would probably want to burn it into a FADC~>ultra.

A simple crossup i would suggest instead could be jMK~>cMP~>rekka x 3. Only problem is that you would give him some range to zone you since they can tech, soif you didn't want that, so you could adjust accordingly, like jMK~>lk x3~>dash into command throw.

[Shrapnel09]

I'm afraid of being stoned, scared, and laughed at if i tried to get noticed making my own topic so i will ask my question here.

Combos......... Combos combos, I have a more general combo question than being Alex specific, now i look at websites like this one (http://mycheats.1up.com/view/section/3163881/25944/street_fighter_4/xbox_360#abel). and like most other guide sites there will be a list of 5-6 or so different combos one can try, such as: c.MP>Cod -or- c.LP>MP>CoD.

Now i understand the point of the combo, if you use c.MP first then Change of Direction they cant block anything after CoD if your quick enough....thats because its a "combo" yes? I also know in training i can stand in front of guy and slap him 3 times in row and thats also a "combo" ...the more i train the more i figure out a combo happens almost anytime you hit the person fast enough, you can essentially combo any fast punch/kick you got as long as your quick, also a combo means they cant block you till combo is finished right?.... I'll ask you on that soon.

Now im sure if everyone everywhere says to use c.MP>CoD then i can only assume that there there is a reason they say to use c.MP and not the other 20 normal moves first. i can make the word combo appear on side of screen if i do MP>CoD and i didnt have to do c.LP>MP>CoD. Why not have MP>CoD listed, is there something that c.LP>MP>CoD does special that im not aware of? I dont see what makes it different with info displayed in training mode.

My Question: Are the specific combos listed on that site (or ones we already know as common knowledge) special/Unique in anyway shape or form in the sense that you MUST use (c.MP>CoD for ex.) for it to work. Again i can make screen say "combo" doing almost anything fast enough. The opponent cant block until combo string is finished right? whats so special about hitting guy 2 times fast with normal move? the word 'combo' appears regardless, but definition of combo is not being to block after first hit connects by that logic every time i hit a person with almost any quick normal move i am entitled a free hit after the initial blow if im fast enough.

I know i have to be wrong somewhere, all i want is some kind charitable soul to help me shed the necessary light i need to see to play the game properly.

[banandy]

I'm afraid of being stoned, scared, and laughed at if i tried to get noticed making my own topic so i will ask my question here.

Combos......... Combos combos, I have a more general combo question than being Alex specific, now i look at websites like this one (http://mycheats.1up.com/view/section/3163881/25944/street_fighter_4/xbox_360#abel). and like most other guide sites there will be a list of 5-6 or so different combos one can try, such as: c.MP>Cod -or- c.LP>MP>CoD.

Now i understand the point of the combo, if you use c.MP first then Change of Direction they cant block anything after CoD if your quick enough....thats because its a "combo" yes? I also know in training i can stand in front of guy and slap him 3 times in row and thats also a "combo" ...the more i train the more i figure out a combo happens almost anytime you hit the person fast enough, you can essentially combo any fast punch/kick you got as long as your quick, also a combo means they cant block you till combo is finished right?.... I'll ask you on that soon.

Now im sure if everyone everywhere says to use c.MP>CoD then i can only assume that there there is a reason they say to use c.MP and not the other 20 normal moves first. i can make the word combo appear on side of screen if i do MP>CoD and i didnt have to do c.LP>MP>CoD. Why not have MP>CoD listed, is there something that c.LP>MP>CoD does special that im not aware of? I dont see what makes it different with info displayed in training mode.

My Question: Are the specific combos listed on that site (or ones we already know as common knowledge) special/Unique in anyway shape or form in the sense that you MUST use (c.MP>CoD for ex.) for it to work. Again i can make screen say "combo" doing almost anything fast enough. The opponent cant block until combo string is finished right? whats so special about hitting guy 2 times fast with normal move? the word 'combo' appears regardless, but definition of combo is not being to block after first hit connects by that logic every time i hit a person with almost any quick normal move i am entitled a free hit after the initial blow if im fast enough.

I know i have to be wrong somewhere, all i want is some kind charitable soul to help me shed the necessary light i need to see to play the game properly.

Check this tutorial out...I know it isn't about SF4 specifically, but it is definitely a good primer for your discussion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCapuhsOMcg&feature=related

Otherwise, the short answer to your question is that some normal moves cannot be 'linked' together as part of a combo.

[Kikuichimonji]

Now im sure if everyone everywhere says to use c.MP>CoD then i can only assume that there there is a reason they say to use c.MP and not the other 20 normal moves first. i can make the word combo appear on side of screen if i do MP>CoD and i didnt have to do c.LP>MP>CoD. Why not have MP>CoD listed, is there something that c.LP>MP>CoD does special that im not aware of? I dont see what makes it different with info displayed in training mode.

My Question: Are the specific combos listed on that site (or ones we already know as common knowledge) special/Unique in anyway shape or form in the sense that you MUST use (c.MP>CoD for ex.) for it to work. Again i can make screen say "combo" doing almost anything fast enough. The opponent cant block until combo string is finished right? whats so special about hitting guy 2 times fast with normal move? the word 'combo' appears regardless, but definition of combo is not being to block after first hit connects by that logic every time i hit a person with almost any quick normal move i am entitled a free hit after the initial blow if im fast enough.

I know i have to be wrong somewhere, all i want is some kind charitable soul to help me shed the necessary light i need to see to play the game properly.Prepare for a wall of text! I'm going to answer your question with some of the jargon we use in Street Fighter, so don't be afraid to ask if you don't understand a term.

If the game recognizes a string of attacks as a combo, then yes, all of the attacks are unblockable until the opponent is knocked down (you can't hit someone on the ground) or they recover from 'hitstun.' The reason combos work is that every move on hit causes the victim to go into a certain number of 'hitstun' frames (a frame is 1/60th of a second, the game runs at that speed. We measure all lengths of time in frames because they are discrete, indivisible units. IE the game does not recognize anything between frames 4,5, and 6 other than those frames themselves). Anyway, a combo works because on some moves the attacker will recover from the animation of his attack faster than the victim recovers from hitstun. We can count the number of frames of advantage that the attacker has. This number is the 'frame advantage' you get from that attack on hit. You can combo into any second move that has startup less than this number. This is why you can go from crouching light punch (referred to as cr.lp) into standing medium punch (st.mp) and the medium punch is unblockable if the light punch hits. A combo is a series of moves that link together fast enough to catch the opponent in the hitstun of a previous move.

There is one important caveat to this that I haven't mentioned. You can actually cancel the ending frames of many punches by inputting a character's special moves. This is called a 2-in-1. This is how you can combo from Abel's st.mp ->mp Change of Direction. You actually cancel the 'recovery' frames of the medium punch directly into Change of Direction. This is called a 'special cancel.' You can also cancel from the first hit of the Change of Direction into Abel's super. This is called a 'super cancel.' So you can go from st.hp (standing heavy punch) -> special cancel into hp Change of Direction -> super cancel into Super. On your controller, you would do HP ->quarter circle forward HP->quarter circle forward any punch.

Now, if you're really paying attention, you'll notice that I haven't actually answered the question of why certain combos are preferred over others. Why do we bother with jabs and light kicks if we can just hit them with hp Change of Direction anyway? The answer is that we are trying to optimize damage, attack safeness, and unblockability.



Doing a jab before standing medium punch adds a little more damage.
The low jab is also safer. Because you're crouching, some attacks that would hit you if you were standing will miss. Adding the low jab also makes comboing into the Change of Direction safer. Change of Direction is not safe if your opponent manages to block it. However, crouching jab into standing medium punch is. Adding the jab gives you enough time to confirm that your opponent actually got hit instead of blocking. In the heat of battle, it's very good not to have to rely on split-second reaction timing to determine whether or not an attack hit and it's safe to continue on to Change of Direction.
Now, for blockability. Many crouching combos begin with a crouching kick (in Abel's case, crouching light kick, or short kick). This is because this move has to be blocked low (crouch-block). If you started with crouching light jab, the opponent could block high (standing) OR low (crouching), so you have a better chance of hitting with that crouching light kick than a crouching jab. Some attacks can only be blocked high, such as Abel's Wheel Kick, his Second Middle/Finish Middle Change of Direction, and Abel's very close st.HK. Almost all jumping attacks also have to be blocked high.



These are the most important reasons we do certain combos over others. Play experience tells us what is reliable, and frame/damage data tells us what is possible.

Hope that helps. Here's a link to Abel's frame data (http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/nov/13/abel-frame-data-street-fighter-4/), too. It's not important unless you want to try to see if specific combos are possible, but it gives examples of frame advantage/disadvantage, damage amounts, and all kinds of cool stuff.

[Arkayne17]

Soemtime today , Ill be updating I was bored today and come with some " technically impractical combos" Just some fancy stuff.. tho some of it really seems potentially useful. You will just have to see when I get them finished.. and somehow get them recorded ? LOL

[ejdge]

Anyone have blockstring combos?

[Arkayne17]

Anyone have blockstring combos?

some basic ones are...

c.lk->c.lk->c.lk->s.lk->F+Mk ( into what the hell you feel like doing..
c.lp->c.lp->s.lk->s.lk -> whatever you feel like mixing up with.

[Fulaani]

I prefer doing cr.lk (cause it hits low) and then switch to cr.lp to whatever. It gives a lot more advantage on block.

[Icege]

I personally like to do c.lp, c.lp, c.lk, f+mk

Some people start holding u/b to try and jump away from tick throws or mash b,b to backdash out. 3rd hit as a low will sometimes catch them. Plus, I get thrown out of c.lk after jump-ins if I don't do them deep enough :(

[Kikuichimonji]

3rd hit as a low will sometimes catch them.(I know I personally always block low whenever I block except when I'm getting chipped. I just always react to the overhead by blocking high.

[Youkai]

Hmm, first up, I'm having trouble to connect my combo's. I'm not sure if it's a reaction practice I need. Cause after the first hit connects, im too slow to connect the combo (causing opponents to recover to block).

What is a good BnB set-up? I used c.MP xx rekka or use c.MK xx rekka. (Btw, is the xx's to show the start of the combo making it unblockable afterwards?)

Also, what could I do if I mess up and it's blocked? And would most of you guys finish the whole rekka combo? Or just the first hit?

Is there any tips on how to trigger combo's quick with a joystick? (i.e. Shoto's mk > fireball can be done by adding mk during the fireball motion).

Also, sorry for being a total noob, what's a blockstring?

[subcons]

His c.MP xx CoD is his basic starter that leads into a lot of his combos and set ups. If the first rekka is blocked, you just have to make a judgement call. You can try and finish out high, or maybe change to lows, you just run the risk of getting hit out of it after that first block. Good players will punish you.

Block strings are a bunch of quick hits that all link together. Even if they're blocked, they push your opponent back far enough that you're still safe and you can follow them by mixing different things up to keep them guessing what you'll do next. Just go into training and try some of them out, you'll get the idea.

[Korentul]

I have a question that I've always wanted the answer to, but can't seem to find it. Why is it that we use LP rekka fadc -> c.HP instead of MP rekka?

[Youkai]

I have a question that I've always wanted the answer to, but can't seem to find it. Why is it that we use LP rekka fadc -> c.HP instead of MP rekka?

I'm not sure if this is the correct answer, but I think since I use a joystick it's another button to press after a cr.MP. So you can kind of piano tap the MP with the LP when combining it into rekka. Saves you tapping the same button again I guess where you have the option to quickly tap another button.

So the when the first hit lays, then the other follow-ups are guarantee'd hits.

cr.MP > LP rekka > fadc > c.HP

Correct me if I'm wrong please ^.^

[Akzidenz]

I'm having a really hard time with cr. FP AA > rekka juggle > ultra. I keep going into the second hit of rekka, I think I'm negative edging it or something. When I do get the ultra off, it's almost always when they're too far down. Seems like they have to be above your head when the ultra goes off.

Any tips for this, other than practice? Will the strength of the punch used for rekka make any difference?

[BustaBust]

use mp, it will probably make it easier. only use fp rekka if you think he is too far and you need to catch him.

[mrAgua]

Korentul I always used LP rekka until maybe last week... MP rekka will add 3 more damage than LP rekka so it's up to you.

Akzidenz- I BELIEVE that you go into the follow up rekkas because you must return to a neutral (or almost neutral) position before going into an ultra. In other words the previous move must be completed before you input for an ultra. If it is not then two things will happen- 1) nothing at all or 2) a move that is similar in input to the ultra and can be linked from the previous move (such as second part of rekka) will come out.

I may be wrong on this but I'll try to double check at some point

EDIT: Yeah I double checked and I think that may be the problem...

In addition timing seems a LITTLE easier if you do cr.hp, roll, ultra... it also does more damage (488 vs 473). <had some stuff here but most of it doesn't seem correct so taking it out until I have someone to try it with>
Of course if you have no meter then cr.fp roll falling sky works

[Pandamoniumm]

Are there any combos that go into c.fp besisdes fadc or the fadc cancel from rekka?

[BustaBust]

no combos other than fadc go into cr.fp. you can either jumping mk or something then cr.fp but other than that there are no combos into it without wasting meter.

[Fulaani]

(Btw, is the xx's to show the start of the combo making it unblockable afterwards?)
nah, xx means cancel. You cancel the cr.mp into a rekka. As opposed to a link where you wait for the move to completely finish before doing your next.

[hotdamnitsryan]

busta, i saw a juggle you did that i cant replicate.

it was second hit of cr.hp(aa) ~> FP(?) rekka ~> ex Sky.

cant find the vid so I might be missing something, or is it only on floaty chars like bison/sim/chun.

i can do cr.hp into roll into normal sky as AA, but the rekka on hit builds more meter then roll.
Then again, i use meter on ex sky. Since i cant replicate it, I can't post numbers on which is better.

[BustaBust]

okay when you do cr.fp you have to only get the 2nd hit, rekka (mp or fp are best, i prefer mp unless you are too far go for fp) then ex falling sky. it works on everyone. but if they are too low the ex falling sky will whiff of course.

i remember i did it on one of the vids in my blog. http://theabelblog.blogspot.com/

[Tuna]

busta, i saw a juggle you did that i cant replicate.

it was second hit of cr.hp(aa) ~> FP(?) rekka ~> ex Sky.

cant find the vid so I might be missing something, or is it only on floaty chars like bison/sim/chun.

i can do cr.hp into roll into normal sky as AA, but the rekka on hit builds more meter then roll.
Then again, i use meter on ex sky. Since i cant replicate it, I can't post numbers on which is better.

You can also do cr.hp anti air(hits once, knocks them way up in air) ~>FP rekka ~> ultra

The timing can be hard, its awesome when you land it though.

[BustaBust]

^ it has been discussed already. i do it in the vids in my blog if you wanna check it out too.

[Youkai]

Not sure whether it's strategies or here I should post up. I've played some players on XBL that comes here and geez, I get owned. One of the things I've realized is the amount of pokes that are used!

I am not sure if this is how SFIV suppose to play like, do you constantly poke your opponent? If so, what series of pokes are good to use? So far I've not got ANY advice after playing these people. So my only resource is to come over to SRK here (if only Busta has a 360!).