Abel Strategies and Match-ups

[RagingStormX]

Since most strategies and tricks are matchup-dependent, it makes sense to group the two together. Discuss anything useful in actual matches here, from specific tactics, to character-dependent move counters, to overall gameplans. The more specific you get, the better. It would be greatly appreciated if you took the time to test out everything you plan on saying in training mode to make sure that it works and to provide some numbers for stuff like damage and dizzy amount.

I'll update this post as info comes in so no one has to scan thru xx amount of pages for info.

Currently working on going through all threads to update this post, so dont worry that the other threads are closed

This is BustaBust personal match-ups opinion from his experience.

akuma: 4.5-5.5
balrog: 5-5
blanka: 4.5-5.5
viper: 5-5
chun: 4.5-5.5
sim: 4-6
honda: 5.5-4.5
fuerte: 5-5
guile: 5-5
ken: 5-5
bison: 5-5
rufus: 5-5
ryu: 5-5
sagat: 4-6
vega: 5-5
gief: 4-6

General Abel gameplay:

- When you knock down your opponent do cr.jab and make them think that you are gonna do those crouching combos and then just fierce command throw.

f+mk is good to get in, pressure and add to your mix up game. one that i found EARLY on was f+mk dash cr.lk x3 st. lk and repeat but there are a bunch of things you can mix up with.
st.lk, cr.lk, cr.lp are all good pressure pokes to do after f+mk and you can mix it up. f+mk dash cr.lp x2 command throw etc.
st.mp is also good. it kinda works as an anti air but will often trade. also it a pretty good normal to use in general.
cr.mp is a really good normal and you can easily connect rekka so thats why that is good.
really though normal wise, i dont see myself using far st.fp too often, or close rh. close st. jab i dont really use either but other than that i use the rest of his normals.
cr.mk is really good and can work as an anti air. you can cancel off this move so you can see why this is good. cr.mk roll away or cr.mk wheel kick,rekka, w/e.
air to air Fierce is really good. im actually trying to mess with jumping roundhouse and finding good uses for it since it puts abel at a different angle so that could be helpful too.
his sweep is good since you can cancel it. cr.rh roll,rekka,wheel kick you choose how you want ot mix it up.
close st.fp is pretty good also. you can cancel after the first hit, you can super cancel after the second hit and it does pretty good damage.
im a bit tired right now but if you would like a more in depth one i guess i can try too. hah this is my first time really contributing to fighting games like this so hopefully im doing a good job haha. hope this helps! and if you want me to explain anything more i can try and do my best.

Match up specific info:

Vs Abel:


Vs Akuma:


Vs Balrog:


Vs Blanka:

Blanka Balls:

- Punish blocked regular and EX blanka balls with Ultra. Doesn't have to be reversal timing either, do it a few frames after you're out of block stun and it will hit.

- If you jab his blanka ball at least 90% of the time or just enough to get him to be scared to throw it out randomly he will blanka ball and land in front of you and try to throw you which is when you would command throw. if you do this a few times they will probably turtle and wait for you to jump to ex diagonal ball or w/e its called so keep it to the ground.

- Standing mp beats blanka ball, here is a vid. its at the beginning of the match. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QcvE...eature=related

Electricity:

- If he whiffs electricity, you can use cr.mp xx rekka at max range.

- If you are expecting them to do electricity ex command throw. If they knock you down empty blanka ball (they will most likely electricity you on your wake up) ex command throw.

- You can sweep him out of it even if it is ex. You have to be a certain distance away from Blanka to sweep him through electricity. The electricity will hit you on startup if you're too close.

- c.lp works close and I believe its a counter hit so you can combo into LP rekka (since you get a few extra frames on counter hit).

Ultra:

- If you are right next to him when he starts it up Abel can quite easily roll under it.

- Punish blanka's Ultra on block. Just wait for the animation on blanka's ultra to finish and while he's spinning backwards in the air, dash forward and you can do c.fp ultra or anti-air, whichever would work.

- Remember to block the Ultra low, high, then low again

Vs C.Viper:

General Info:

- When in doubt, EX Wheel Kick. It will beat down non-crossup flame kicks, trade/beat with the upwards thunder knuckle as long as they don't do it on reaction, and beat out the straight thunder knuckle about 90% of the time. Good damage, too. Hitting it on Viper's wakeup is an excellent option if they aren't too trigger happy with the SRK punches.

Thunder Knuckle:

- Standing short also works after a thunder knuckle and it's safe. Punish blocked/whiffed fierce thunder knuckles with fierce command throw.

- If Blocked close you can reversal jab command throw. If the knuckle is at max range you cant.

Flame Kick:

- Flame kick is focusable

Vs Cammy


Vs Chun-Li:


Vs Dan:


Vs Dhalsim:

General Info:

- Abel's st.lk and cr.mk can beat Sim's jumping fierce.

- You can roll through most his normals

- You cant roll all day against Sim, cause if u dont cross up, he can throw u before u throw him. Guaranteed. If u cross up, he will just teleport. If u do rekka chain and he has super, he will super through first hit. It is actually a rough match up. You have to do a lot of throw shaninagans vs sim to win that match. Otherwise he just runs from you all day

- The powerful thing about the roll is you always wanna do it so you recover when you cross them up. That is what gives you the advantage. If u do it so you cross Sim up, you will always get priority on the throw.

- Roll from a location and in a situation where Sim has a hard time punishing you on reaction, like just outside of his back+forward range (which is also outside of his throw range), whether in front of him or crossing up, on reaction to a Sim fireball or fierce. The fastest far normal Sim has is standing short, which hits has 7 frames of startup and basically does tick damage, so you're not risking much.

- If you're being kept out by normals, try counterpoking, which you're starting to do anyway and it works occasionally. I think if you stand at the max range of Sim's far limbs and spam standing short, it might be pretty hard on my limbs and force me to throw out a yoga fire, which is obviously ultra bait.

- If you see Sim do jump back fierce, even if it hits, you can still close the gap by doing a roll. I think jump back fierce could potentially be a bad idea for Sim in this matchup, both because you can beat it with normals and because you can close the distance at least a little after I do it. It's worth trying out Abel's ultra, might work even if you get hit.

- If he throws a fireball at you, dash forward once you see him do it. Then Block. You actually gain a bit of ground that way even if he hits you with something. Then because you're not to far, Just FA again and see his reaction. If Limbs -> Dash forward to get in. If Fireball, Dash back. if nothing, Dash Forward.

- This match goes down to a lot of patience and mind games. Remember all you want to do with Abel is get in close and start the mix up/ command throw game. There are way to get in on Sim, you just have to trick him into doing a few things. A jump back fierce from Sim can get a free roll right after to close the gap. Which roll you use depends on what you plan on doing next.

- Remember he can sweep xx sean kick. That would be something good to go with after the roll. Ex sean kick can also close the gap on Sim if you figure his poking pattern or just anticipate a heavy poke.

- Once abel loses 50% health, Sim will not be so careless with throwing fireballs since Abel will have an ultra ready. Try to SA dash back to recover health and build meter as much as you can with Abe lto speed up the ultra meter. Remember abel ultra is painful at max.

- For close pressure with abel, use standing lk spam or c+lk, both of those into command throw mix up or standing lk into f+mk dash forward c+jab jab jab. It WILL be hard for sim to get out of this without doing a teleport. Here is where your mind games come in, stop you string and watch if he teleports....ready the ultra. You dont even need to be that quick with it. Abel can also f+mk dash f+mk and the second f+mk will counter a lot of pokes. You notice also that a lot of Sims like to jump forward teleport back, fierce in the air. Uou see the back teleport, you do a hk or ex roll to get in close.

- Abel also has a real quick SA so dont be afraid it to use it up close. Its not really for the SA to hit, its more to keep him in block stun so you can mix him up even more into command throw or free jabs because he's trying to run from an anticipated throw.

- After sean kick you can standing lk spam to keep sim pinned or whiff b+mk into command throw.

Vs E.Honda:

Headbutt:

- You can reversal ultra after a mp or fp headbutt.

- Be careful, EX headbutt beats ultra, for some stupid reason Honda's EX headbutt hits him low.


Vs El Fuerte:


Vs Fei Long:


Vs Gen


Vs Gouken:


Vs Guile:

General Info:

- Standking LK tends to beat out most if not all of Guile's main pokes


Vs Ken:


Vs M.Bison:


Vs Rose:


Vs Rufus:

General info:

-Keep the fight on the floor as much as possible, if you jump he will rh and you either eat ultra or ex viper strikes afterward.

Dive Kicks:

- Focus xx backdash can escape cross ups.

Vs Ryu:

General Inof:

- Pay attention to how the ryu player is playing. If he likes to shoryu everything just play a bit more cautious and dont pressure him as much. Spend time poking him and finding an opening for a beefy combo. If he doesnt pressure him a lot more and make him want to shoryuken out of desperation and hopefully you will read it and punish accordingly.

Hadouken:

- Once you get ultra since you will still have a good amount of health try to space him out a bit, even if you are pretty close they tend to throw out a fireball eventually so ultra through it.

Vs Sagat:


Vs Sakura:


Vs Seth


Vs Vega:


Vs Zangief:

General Info:

- Don't get in, don't cross him up. Zone him out with standing roundhouse, jabs, shorts, neutral j.rh, and a very occasional short sean kick. You definitely have to not attack, and definitely not attempt Oki.

- The one thing you have going for you with Oki is that jab tornado throw will beat out any moves he might throw out (including SPD/Ex SPD/Super/Ultra), but if he jumps, he can just land SPD/Ultra while you're whiffing the tornado throw. It's not worth the risk if Gief has the ultra.

- If you want to go in a little more assertive, you can train Gief to jump using the jab tornado throws, then mix up with a meaty close RH or other move that would stuff a jump. Risk/reward is definitely sloped in Gief's favor though no matter what.

- When Gief is half screen away or closer, always start buffering half circle backs so that if he goes for a regular or EX greenhand, you can just tap jab to tornado throw him out.

- Another thing (not sure if this is just a timing thing, or if it only works on a certain version lariat), is a jump in fierce at the right angle will beat it. Try it out and see if you have any success.

- Neutral jump nothing if Gief has meter (which he will, because Gief should always start out a match by walking away and building meter with kick lariat), ex green hand eats all jumping attacks in its range for free.

- EX-terry kick seems to beat out everything Gief has, including ex-green hand. Terry kick seems to punish lariets.

- CoD (rekkas) on block aren't that great as long range pokes because Gief will lariat you at least after the second hit.

- cr.mk is good vs splash, fp, rh, mostly clean, sometimes trades. Gief's jump mk will be beat it.

- Jump back after wake up really late to bait out spd, and punish with ultra.

- SA is next to useless in this match up.

- Rolling is good if he jumps after knocking you down. Good way to run away and reset the match.

- Really be aware when using wheel kick against zangief. If gief has meter do not wheel kick, ex green hand beats it and if he does ex green hand free cross up for him and the match can go down the drain. If the gief you are playing against does not do this on reaction then go ahead and wheel kick but make sure you use the right strength or you will get punished. Never wheel kick against him when he has meter.

-If you just do regular command grab, it loses to everything Gief can attack/throw you with except for super (which is unthrowable for some reason). Gief has to backdash or jump out if he wants to escape from a meaty throw.

Lariets:

- EX-terry kick seems to beat out everything Gief has, including ex-green hand. Terry kick seems to punish lariets.

- It's possible to punish a lariat on reaction with ultra. Generally tag the recovery, if you time it right before the punch lariat ends, the ULTRA will land, but watch out for the kick lariats. Those ones will fuck you over.

- Lariat is also totally throwable, it's throwable throughout its length, from start to finish. The only thing is that you have to dance around his active hitboxes, because unless you've already started your throw when they show up, those hitboxes will knock you down. But yeah, timed right, lariat equals free throw. For example, if you do toward+forward xx toward dash to throw and Zangief did lariat right after recovering from blockstun from the toward+forward kick, your throw will beat his lariat.

- All of Gief's attacks lose to meaty Abel command grab, from lariat to ex green hand to ultra to spd to super. All he can do is backdash or jump out.

Glove:

- It's possible to punish gloves on reaction with ultra.

- You can back dash or jump back and if you see him green hand and just mk.

- Normal throws beats ex green hand. Any throw or grab beats it, so you don't have to worry about wasting ex meter for ex command grab.

- Standing Strong beats out Green Hand (non-EX), most of Zangief's mid/high pokes and Lariat from nearly full range (usually trades when you're close). If someone tries to build meter with Lariat, just sit at mid range and pop them out of it with standing Strong.

[Crisium]

What about this thread:

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=174140

[BustaBust]

yes close this thread, the thread i made is exactly what your trying to do here

[hfz69]

lol in b4 cloze

[RagingStormX]

Other threads were closed and there wasnt too much pertinent info in the old one anyway, so it's not that big a deal. Im gonna grab all the info and update the first post.

[BustaBust]

okay, you should add that that stat is my personal experience and what i think. dont just take the chart and post it since people will think thats what it really is. that isnt accurate information its my own chart. i was just gonna post that in here since i dont see why you should add the chart in the first post. i will be making several of these so i am sure you dont want to have every single chart in the first post...

[RagingStormX]

Thats fine I'll update as need be.

[dominic]

Hey guys,
Last night I got completely shut down by a Guile and a Ken player poking me away with what seemed to be better pokes and anti-airing my ass when I jumped in. How do you guys close distance without getting smacked?

EDIT: also has anybody found a good way to stuff Shoto's SRK on wakeup?

[hfz69]

Hey guys,
Last night I got completely shut down by a Guile and a Ken player poking me away with what seemed to be better pokes and anti-airing my ass when I jumped in. How do you guys close distance without getting smacked?

EDIT: also has anybody found a good way to stuff Shoto's SRK on wakeup?

dont jump in. at least not obviously...have a better mixup game, use rolls and f+mk dash or even ex rekka more to get close... as for wake up srk, bait it(you can dash towards them like you're rushing down, or early crossup jump/roll) then block and punish. punishing srk is yummy.

oh and i think ken's f+mk can be countered with a properly timed lvl1 SA.

[dominic]

I do all that, but they simply wait and poke on reaction.

Also baiting SRks is a horrible way to go, because it would only work once before they simply start grabbing you.

What I think I need to do is mix up my rolling, try and fake them out that way. I think I underestimate the invul frames given to most rolls.

[hfz69]

its all mind games then. i bait srk, and they'll think twice to srk next time, and i'll comman throw next or just back dash.. hmm but then im not such a good abel player myself lol..

bustaaa

[BustaBust]

haha, well you cant stuff srk so dont even try. against guile ex rekka works really well. when you knock guile down cross him up a lot. he is pretty weak against cross up, the only thing he has is flashkicks and ultra. sometimes the flash kick dont even come out,sometimes it goes the other way and if it does hit u w/e its not to damaging. if you are really having trouble with ken like his wake up they srk or somethin. take a few steps back. maybe max range for srk so if they try you can punish. if you see a pattern like if they like to throw out a lot of moves, try to counter focus hit it. say if a ken player likes to f+mk or low forward a lot, try to counter focus if that doesnt work it just adds to your mix up after the hit. im too lazy to think right now hah. gotta get some sleep for a tourny...

[Mariodood]

Key to beating the shoryus is hesitating outside the throw range. If you hesitate and they shoryu, you've baited them. If they block or something, you can just see that and attack anyway.

[hfz69]

lol so everyone's basically saying the same thing :D.

[radica]

I'm sorta new to arcade fighters. I've currently been maining with Ken but I'm in the process of switching to Abel because of difficultly in FADC into his Ultra. I have no overwhelming problems with Shoryus but I seem to have a hard time with fellow melees who have plenty of armor break moves specifically experienced Blanka and Bison players. Also, my timing blows against Blanka's Electric with Abel for some reason.

[BustaBust]

I Also, my timing blows against Blanka's Electric with Abel for some reason.

explain more, be more specific on what your problems are so we can try to help. also you can always sweep blanka's electricity and you can connect cr.mp at its max range.

[jaunty]

Key to beating the shoryus is hesitating outside the throw range. If you hesitate and they shoryu, you've baited them. If they block or something, you can just see that and attack anyway.

You can also focus just on the edge of SRK range and back-dash as they wake up. No risk to yourself and lesser players often throw something unsafe out to try and hit you.

[BustaBust]

that doesnt work, if you focus back dash against ken's fierce you get caught.

[jaunty]

that doesnt work, if you focus back dash against ken's fierce you get caught.

Then you're too close. The point is to make it look like they'll get you, but stay safe.

You've played enough SF4 to know the arc on Ken's Fierce DP, you know where to focus to have it whiff. You'd be amazed how many players will see you take up a focused stance and throw out something incredibly stupid because they think it's free damage.

[BustaBust]

mariodood is talking about throw range. that wouldnt be throw range so thats why i said that

[FlexYoFace]

sick

[RagingStormX]

1st post updated.

[BustaBust]

also if a blanka like to do electricity you can sweep him out of it even if it is ex. also the jumping thing against blanka's ultra is a bad idea. even if you know you will make it without getting hit dont do it. if you do get hit it does SOO MUCH damage thats its not worth it so just roll or block and punish.

minor adjustments and yes i am using the american names if you are wondering

akuma: 4.5-5.5
balrog: 5-5
blanka: 4.5-5.5
viper: 5-5
chun: 4.5-5.5
sim: 4-6
honda: 5.5-4.5
fuerte: 5-5
guile: 5-5
ken: 5-5
bison: 5-5
rufus: 5-5
ryu: 5-5
sagat: 4-6
vega: 5-5
gief: 4-6

[machinablack]

explain more, be more specific on what your problems are so we can try to help. also you can always sweep blanka's electricity and you can connect cr.mp at its max range.

To add to this, you have to be a certain distance away from Blanka to sweep him through electricity. The electricity will hit you on startup if you're too close. D + LK works close and I believe its a counter hit so you can combo into LP rekka (since you get a few extra frames on counter hit).

[RagingStormX]

ok added.

[BustaBust]

ya sweeping electricity definitely will not work up close because of the start up. take a few steps back and it will. you can be about a character away.

i kinda disagree about sim hesitating to throw fireballs when you have ultra because he recovers really fast from them so pretty much either you ahve super fast reaction and do it right as he says yoga or you guessed that he was going to do it. also b+mk if you are talking about that weird angle kick upwards then that is just mk. when you are too close to the opponent that weird kick wont come out instead you will get the f+mk. when too close f+mk registers instead of the other kick which is completely stupid imo. also i disagree about it being hard for sim to get out of f+mk dash jab jab jab etc. cuz ultradavid back dashes after the f+mk and avoids all of it. not hard to avoid all he need sto do is back dash.

[RagingStormX]

Is this new format helping you guys out?

[machinablack]

i kinda disagree about sim hesitating to throw fireballs when you have ultra because he recovers really fast from them so pretty much either you ahve super fast reaction and do it right as he says yoga or you guessed that he was going to do it.

It's about the same recovery on the Yoga Fire as a Hadouken. It seems like he recovers much faster but he really doesn't.

[machinablack]

Then you're too close. The point is to make it look like they'll get you, but stay safe.

You've played enough SF4 to know the arc on Ken's Fierce DP, you know where to focus to have it whiff. You'd be amazed how many players will see you take up a focused stance and throw out something incredibly stupid because they think it's free damage.

That's hard to do with Abel. His FA doesn't have much range.

A meaty FA is only threatening when it's close for most people, even scrubs, so I can't really see this working too well.

[radica]

Yeah, I've been getting my ass handed lately from two different Blank users. Without a doubt they know their character inside-out and I'm not use to it at all. I usually play Abel as an opportunist just waiting for the right moment/momentum but Blanka's cross ups, high-lows, and fake light beast rolls keep on getting me. Should I be more aggressive in my hurricane grabs? or will my usual turtling get better over time as I learn Blanka?

[amuseME]

Yeah, I've been getting my ass handed lately from two different Blank users. Without a doubt they know their character inside-out and I'm not use to it at all. I usually play Abel as an opportunist just waiting for the right moment/momentum but Blanka's cross ups, high-lows, and fake light beast rolls keep on getting me. Should I be more aggressive in my hurricane grabs? or will my usual turtling get better over time as I learn Blanka?


Blanka is definitely a hard match for Abel. Against this character you gotta be a little patient, wait til you see him mess something up and then punish accordingly. If you have ultra remember you can punish blanka ball. Wheel kick is definitely your friend in this match, if you time it right wheel kick will stuff blanka ball. Don't cross-up as much, do it randomly to throw him off because blanka can just up-ball or electricity if he sees you doing it too much.

[Shogun of Live]

Based on my experience I would say the matchup against Balrog is at least 6-4 maybe even 7-3 in Abel favor.

Abel's roll and throw game seems too much for Balrog, also you can catch Balrog while he is doing his Ultra by performing with Abel's Ultra. I played and beat guys with much higher BP online and have won every single time. So far this is the only matchup I have played with Abel where I feel truly confident that I know what to do at all times.

[Crisium]

A good Balrog would never do an Ultra if it wasn't part of a combo though (especially if you don't have a fireball).

What do you recommend to do when a Balrog is keeping the low-jab pressure on?

[BustaBust]

ex command throw. i feel pretty confident in the balrog match now. i mean ive played against a lot of our balrog army, enough to do pretty well i would say. just from my personal experience i almost think its even 5-5.

[zosla]

i don't think 7-3 in favour to abel vs Balrog ( boxer )
If you play a decent Boxer you will know the game would most likely be 5-5.

[amuseME]

It's pretty even if the Balrog plays straight up. There's a tactic that Balrog can use to completely stop Abel from doing anything, if Abel has no ex meter.

[BenD the Truth]

ex command throw. i feel pretty confident in the balrog match now. i mean ive played against a lot of our balrog army, enough to do pretty well i would say. just from my personal experience i almost think its even 5-5.

Hey Busta, I'm curious, what is the hardest/easiest match-up for you as a player w/ Abel?

[zosla]

what are the views for you guys playing against Ryu?
What to do and not to do?
Cross up seems good vs shoto's and also always keeping close range.

[BustaBust]

i would say the hardest would be sagat or gief. if you play a good gief then you would know. if you dont play good gief's than that shit is easy win. easiest to be honest i dont think any match is considered easy. most of his match ups are pretty much either even or he loses 6-4 imo.

[shinsatsu]

what are the views for you guys playing against Ryu?
What to do and not to do?
Cross up seems good vs shoto's and also always keeping close range.

Against Ryu, crossup's arent too good. He can always get hit out of his shoryu then ultra you for free afterwards.

Against Ryu I tend to keep a distance between mid and close. At this range I'm free to poke around. I've noticed that you can't constantly keep pressure because eventually they're going to shoryu > ultra you. You gotta play smart with pokes and watch their meter.

[Shogun of Live]

i would say the hardest would be sagat or gief. if you play a good gief then you would know. if you dont play good gief's than that shit is easy win. easiest to be honest i dont think any match is considered easy. most of his match ups are pretty much either even or he loses 6-4 imo.

I fully agree on Gief and Sagat being hard for Abel... So far I like him vs Balrog, Ryu, Ken, and Fei Long

[hfz69]

I disagree on Sagat being hard. Its 5-5 for me. Zangief, maybe 4-6.

[BustaBust]

what makes it even for you? i mean we have some good sagat players here and it for sure isnt even from what i have experienced.

[SuupaBuu]

what makes it even for you? i mean we have some good sagat players here and it for sure isnt even from what i have experienced.

I'd like to know that as well.

I find it an uphill battle maintaining the pressure (or even starting it) on him. If the Sagat player knows what he's doing, it's definitely in his favor.

[pintosaur]

what's some stuff i can do against balrog? i don't have a lot of experience against him since very few people play him here and i don't get a solid feel for what situations to avoid, how to counter, etc.

[Atb_555]

I'll test this out when I get the game but is it not possible to stop his dash punches with cr.mk? And once it connects combo into rekkas.

[BustaBust]

you can stop dash punches with st.mp st.fp (far), cr.mk, st.lk, ex command throw and ultra. but if he does jab dash punch kinda close either ultra, ex command throw or fucking roll and punish or just block hah. on rog's wake up though neutral jump seems to work pretty well. because he will either headbutt, and dash punch most likely and it will go under you. he will then try to grab you most likely BAM fierce command throw his ass.

[Shogun of Live]

I am starting to turn the tide against Sagat's and Gief's as well. What I think is going on with the Gief players is they are not used to fighting a character such as Abel.. I would say its a even matchup with Sagat now after playing him a few more times.... I beat a few decent Giefs as well, however it requires super solid play to take down Gief. I would say the Gief matchup is even, but I would like to see how Gief players adjust to Abel in the future.

I would like to see some other Abel's in action, I have only had two mirror matches online and won both easily.

[Shogun of Live]

Blanka has been the toughest for me so far.. Though I must say I didn't really read the tips posted here until now. I did want to add that you can hit Blanka with a cr.HP after blocking his slide attack, which of course can lead into all sorts of Abel fun

[Arde]

So the 2nd hit of cr+fP hits Blanka and juggles him after the block to slide?

Nooice!! :lovin:

[sleepernoob]

Man, so many players...even decent players (2K+ BP) keep blocking low against his Mid Rekkas. I've been able to do it like 5-10 times straight in a match. lol I always hear "WTF, I'm blocking that shit!"

Against Ryu if the player does his Ultra outside of a combo you can jump over it and Ultra him back. I'm pretty sure even when you're point blank in his face you can still jump over it.

[Kajiki]

Im really sucking bad as of now (day 2)... And its an obvious combination of 2 things:

1.) New stick user: I have no idea how to play with a stick. I miss stupid inputs that i should never miss (like whiffing EX-Sky Fall, instead of getting my ultra... completely whiffing my Tornado Throw and getting a normal punch instead.), lacking the stick skills to be able to do simple things (like consistent Forward+MK xx Dashes, and blocking against high-low mixups.)... Its my second day using a stick and i want to pull my hair out, its just the most frustrating thing in the world. My brain knows what i have to do and how i need to do it, but my hands are incapable of doing it as of now... i know it takes time but, shit, its frustrating to lose fights i know i could win if i was better with command execution... :sad:

2.) The simplicity of inputs in SF4 is owning me. Reversal timing is so easy that it seems like there isn't such thing as meaties anymore. 9/10 people i play on PSN are ken/ryu and i basically have to sit back and wait for them to whiff a shoryuken before i can do anything. It seems a lot of Abel's normals have much lower priority than some of ken/ryu's, either that or much worse startup/recovery.

Anyway, im just having problems in general. I'm temped to just give up on my stick because i just get angry (blind rage) when i lose because of a whiffed input. I honestly dont know what to do against shotos, because if im anywhere near them on wakeup i get nailed with a reversal Shoryuken, even if i cross up with a roll or try to cross them up with a Jmp.MK... the new SRK command and simple reversal timing just makes it frustratingly hard to keep pressure on anyone and im constantly compelled to turtle. Any advice?

[BustaBust]

I'm pretty sure even when you're point blank in his face you can still jump over it.

dont risk it, i think you will get hit but just ultra him back, easy.

[Richard]

Vs C.Viper:

General Info:

- When in doubt, EX Wheel Kick. It will beat down non-crossup flame kicks, trade/beat with the upwards thunder knuckle as long as they don't do it on reaction, and beat out the straight thunder knuckle about 90% of the time. Good damage, too. Hitting it on Viper's wakeup is an excellent option if they aren't too trigger happy with the SRK punches.
Hmm, not played either yet, but from vids, Abel and Viper both look like they play SFEX style, with the latter being a cross between Sharon and Shadowgeist. Wakeup pressure is also a key element in later EX games, too...

[Jaynen]

Probably a total noob question, but seeing as how I am :rofl: it makes sense. In the gief writeup theres talk about ex-terry kick, but then talk about not using wheel kick. What special am I forgetting of abels that is a kick besides the wheel kick?

And I assume Rekka is reference to the Fei long like nature of the 3 hit ending in grab combo, and command throw is the half circle grab?

[BustaBust]

terry kick, goofy sean kick, and wheel kick are all the same thing. and you are right about rekka and command throw is half circle back punch.

[Crisium]

For the Shoryuken characters, is their (non-ex) Shoryuken invincible on start-up? I'm trying to meaty c.mk > cod, but regular shoryuken beats me. Is srk invincible or am I just timing it wrong? Or is c.mp > cod better?

My opponent wakeup options are a)wait and punish b)tornado throw c) j.mk crossup d) c.mk > cod meaty (usually fails)

I have trouble with characters who jump. Zangief jumping around on my wakeup is damning - I don't know what to do. Turtle and/or jumping Blanka also causes problems. Electricity... ugh.

[BustaBust]

srk will always beat meaty anything.

[RSDeathscythe]

Been playing Abel and nothing else. Just wondering if there is a combo to command grab? Also when is it a good idea to do Front kick dash?

[asianxcore]

This thread is great. Thanks to Busta for supplying so much info and answering questions.

Also is it worth it to EX/Non-Ex Wheel Kick on Opponent wake-up? Or should cr. jp into Command Throw be my only knockdown option?

[BustaBust]

ex wheel kick is pretty useless up close since they can pretty much jab you out or worse.... just be careful if you are going to do wheel kick on their wake up since it actually is pretty punishable. say for instance common one that happens to me, playing against ryu, i wheel kicked his wake up and he did srk. we traded and he did ultra. not worth it. but just be careful. also there isnt a combo into command throw.

[asianxcore]

ex wheel kick is pretty useless up close since they can pretty much jab you out or worse.... just be careful if you are going to do wheel kick on their wake up since it actually is pretty punishable. say for instance common one that happens to me, playing against ryu, i wheel kicked his wake up and he did srk. we traded and he did ultra. not worth it. but just be careful. also there isnt a combo into command throw.

Thanks for the heads up. Haven't had that happen yet. So far (luckily) it's only been trading with cr. fp or j.shoryu. Got hit at one point by Blanka Elec as well.

Still learning how to play against Shoto's correctly. I tend to get over anxious and open myself up to all sorts of punishment. I'm still about 50/50 or 60/40, when facing decent Shoto's. What kind of pressure should I be putting on Shoto's?

[BustaBust]

shoto's you have to be a bit more careful. you cant really be as agressive as you want to be (or at least for me) since if you try to do mix ups with f+mk they can shoryu. try to learn how your opponent plays if you can and go from there other wise be pretty careful. i mean do what you want to do at first. if you see that they are punishing it consistently change your game since it wont work. i mean thats a general idea on how to play everyone but it works.

[Money_503]

Snip

I totally feel your pain Kajiki, I'm having the same sorts of problems using my stick playing Abel. (Im actually using the regular xbox controller when I play him right now just so I dont get so frustrated)

Busta pretty much summed it up when playing shotos. You have to pick your fights and punish accordingly. For me I get too aggressive after I do a nice high damage combo and get too excited and want to finish them off before thinking it thru.

[Shogun of Live]

Okay just played a tough Sagat and pulled out the win. Against this particular guy I played I really mixed up my short and long rolls. Grabbed him when I caught him shooting a fireball, or cr+hp juggle into change of direction. Also once he start getting more defensive I just began to hit with cr+jab a couple of times then crossed him up with medium kick and rinse repeated that a bit... On his wake I would just walk up and block in case of srk, if he didn't do it I would either ex command throw or roll and juggle... In the third round I changed my strategy and caught him off guard with a ex wheel kick on his wake up a couple of times(by time he was thinking I was just waiting on him to fire a srk)

I'm currently ranked in top 2500 in battle points, top 1500 in ranked wins. With at least 80% of my wins coming by way of Abel. I also beat a solid Blanka and Gief tonight. Though I must admit a not so solid Gief got me one match. I would say as of now I feel toughest matchup for Abel is Blanka, then Gief, and Sagat behind those two.

[BustaBust]

watch out with sagat though, rolls get owned if the sagat player really knows what to do, he can uppercut, st.rh, st.mk or somethin like that on your recovery. seriously once you play a solid sagat you will see rolls dont work too well. unless its PERFECT timing, if you do random ones you will get punished heck it doesnt even have to be random. if you roll at him you are fucked unless he times his move wrong. just watch out :)

[Shogun of Live]

yeah thats why I kept mixing them up between short and long rolls, and also doubling up my rolls. I usually always just try to adapt to my opponent as the match is going. I believe that guy won the first round and then I won the next two.

I also finally played another solid Abel tonight, that match was very intese went to the 5th round, he even got a perfect on me on the 3rd round. I was able to gut it out. So far that guy was the best Abel I played against.

[BustaBust]

dont forget though they can throw you out of your rolls. so watch out with them long ones too. nice for you to post though, good stuff.

[Shogun of Live]

dont forget though they can throw you out of your rolls. so watch out with them long ones too. nice for you to post though, good stuff.

I kinda forgot that, however not once has someone did that to me...lol..well keep that in mind for sure though thanks..

[Crisium]

Busta you rock. You are the role model for so many of us young Abel players. :D

I got top 800 ranked on XBL last night playing exclusively Abel (well, played Ken twice ever in ranked). I don't expect to keep it since people are beginning to wise up to my tricks, but so far I'm having a blast.

Still have problems with Zangfief on my wakeup, and Blanka in general. Does anything beat electricity? If I try to attack right when it ends I'm sometimes too slow and he counter hits. Or I'm too soon. Also what are the best neutral and forward jumps against a Blanka who loves the air?

[Arkayne17]

dont forget though they can throw you out of your rolls. so watch out with them long ones too. nice for you to post though, good stuff.


Ive felt that the hard way.


So I played my first akuma this morning.. I will say hes very frustrating for abel..
So while playing his akuma , I was testing things on him. Maybe it was just me.. But I focused the air hadoken into Anti-Air throw. Maybe it was just that online but.. I was pretty impressed.

Other than that I was at a stand still with the Abel Vs Akuma matchup.

Vs zangief...

Maybe it was just me but I was playing a zangief today offline. I kept stopping his 360 attempts. with the s.lp 2in1 and the s.mp 2 in 1.

[BustaBust]

against gief's wakeup really you either jump back, back dash or roll. dont roll all the time though since he can spd you out of it. also if a blanka likes to spam electricity or do it on his wake up sweeps will beat it (even the ex version) but dont do them point blank of course. also at max range cr.mp will hit him (not the ex version).

[Arkayne17]

against gief's wakeup really you either jump back, back dash or roll. dont roll all the time though since he can spd you out of it. also if a blanka likes to spam electricity or do it on his wake up sweeps will beat it (even the ex version) but dont do them point blank of course. also at max range cr.mp will hit him (not the ex version).


Nice Good to know , so what about akuma I know you play at denjin so I know you play JR alot... what to do for akuma>

[BustaBust]

jr as in jr rodriguez? he doesnt go to denjin, i mean he has been there a few times but not casuals or i never see him at least. actually there are like 0 akuma players at denjin. i mean there is one but he hasnt gone to denjin in forever. um well if you have ultra and he likes to jump back fireball, once you see him jump back roll. if he does a fireball ultra if not your just gaining meter and closing the gap a bit. i dont got much exp on this match up since i rarely play akuma's.

edit: just post what you guys specifically need help/are having trouble with and we can answer. generic questions can lead to generic answers so try to be specific and we can all help.

[Shogun of Live]

One thing I know about facing Akuma's is that you CANNOT roll thru raging demon.. I do like to roll while Akuma's are spamming air fireballs.. Out of Ken, Ryu, and Akuma.. I find Akuma the best matchup for Abel due to Akuma's inability to deal with damage as well as the other two.

[Kajiki]

vs Zangief: What can i do against gief spamming lariats? Ex-Rekka seems to be the only thing that can get in and do some damage. I can't punish with an ultra because i get hit out of it (even though i thought that abel's ultra was invul from the waist up...), i obviously can't jump in and i can't even roll in. The only thing that i have been able to do at all is EX-rekka in, and if i dont have meter than im kind of screwed.

vs Shotos: Shoryuken seems to beat everything i have. And most shotos i've played just spam the shit out of them, so it seems like my only option is to block and punish, or wait for a whiff and punish... However, sometimes i try to punish with a cr.hk or cr.mk xx rekka and they are able to pull off another SRK right as they land and counter-hit me with it. So basically they land on my leg and still SRK me. I've lost count of the times i've been beaten by horrible shoto players that just spam shoryukens. I'm pretty sure its not possible to wake-up grab a shoto that always reversal SRKs because they have invulnerability, right?

[BustaBust]

wake up srk beats any meaty or w/e you try to do with abel. the ultra thing with gief, ive had it hit me a lot but when i was close. it has never hit me when i am 3/4 of the screen away so if he tries to build meter with lariats ultra him. shoto's you gotta play it safe and careful.

[RagingStormX]

Uhhhh...I'll update this soon. Gen is horrible and I been working on him lately, havent even messed around with anyone else really cause Gen is so frustrating. I might end up using Abel as a main instead a secondary. If you think Vega is bad...lol

[nf0x]

Great feedback here. Abel threads are head and shoulders above most other character threads, which is why I'm confidant I can get a solution to my issue.

His pokes seem very one dimensional. Coming from a heavy makoto player, I feel like I'm using her without a poke game. I have to constantly fight myself to not play a "how do I set up this throw" game.

I'm just beginning to use f+mk which truly makes a huge difference, but aside from that I'm at a loss as to when and why I should use almost every other one of Abel's normals.

f+mk for pressure
c.mp and c.fp for links

...and that's all I got. My competition is reasonably fierce, and they make me pay for my lack of versatility. Can I get a brief (or in depth ) run down of why his useful pokes are exactly that?

yall rule. keep the discussion flowing

[Fulaani]

this part of the viper matchup stuff seems contradictory.


Thunder Knuckle:

- Standing short also works after a thunder knuckle and it's safe. Punish blocked/whiffed fierce thunder knuckles with fierce command throw.

- If Blocked close you can reversal jab command throw. If the knuckle is at max range you cant.the fierce vs jab reversal command throw thing sounds contradictory.

also, on the gief matchup stuff. first it says never attempt oki cause the odds are in giefs favor, but later it says command throw beats everything gief has save backdash or jump out. Why not press oki with comand throw?

[shinsatsu]

Great feedback here. Abel threads are head and shoulders above most other character threads, which is why I'm confidant I can get a solution to my issue.

His pokes seem very one dimensional. Coming from a heavy makoto player, I feel like I'm using her without a poke game. I have to constantly fight myself to not play a "how do I set up this throw" game.

I'm just beginning to use f+mk which truly makes a huge difference, but aside from that I'm at a loss as to when and why I should use almost every other one of Abel's normals.

f+mk for pressure
c.mp and c.fp for links

...and that's all I got. My competition is reasonably fierce, and they make me pay for my lack of versatility. Can I get a brief (or in depth ) run down of why his useful pokes are exactly that?

yall rule. keep the discussion flowing

cr.LP is good to keep pressure on. A poke string I like to do after a blocked say crossup MK is about 3 or so cr.LP followed by a standing LK, then f+MK to reset the position. I tend to keep pressuring with cr.LP x n, standing LK > f+MK unless they seem to like to put a dp between my poke strings. In that case, I try to bait and punish.

cr.LK has similar uses to cr.LP. You can use cr.MK as a decent anti-air. Jumping HP is a great air-to-air move, especially jumping back. Neutral jump roundhouse (I think that's the one) is also pretty good. cr.RH is good as a sweep as you can cancel into a roll or wheel kick if needed. Standing LK is gooooood. It's amazing how fast this thing comes out and the range on it is good.


this part of the viper matchup stuff seems contradictory.
the fierce vs jab reversal command throw thing sounds contradictory.

also, on the gief matchup stuff. first it says never attempt oki cause the odds are in giefs favor, but later it says command throw beats everything gief has save backdash or jump out. Why not press oki with comand throw?

You don't want to press Zangief too much. Backdash > jab spd will get you and then the guessing game is heavily in his favor then.

[BustaBust]

to nf0x:

f+mk is good to get in, pressure and add to your mix up game. one that i found EARLY on was f+mk dash cr.lk x3 st. lk and repeat but there are a bunch of things you can mix up with.
st.lk, cr.lk, cr.lp are all good pressure pokes to do after f+mk and you can mix it up. f+mk dash cr.lp x2 command throw etc.
st.mp is also good. it kinda works as an anti air but will often trade. also it a pretty good normal to use in general.
cr.mp is a really good normal and you can easily connect rekka so thats why that is good.
really though normal wise, i dont see myself using far st.fp too often, or close rh. close st. jab i dont really use either but other than that i use the rest of his normals.
cr.mk is really good and can work as an anti air. you can cancel off this move so you can see why this is good. cr.mk roll away or cr.mk wheel kick,rekka, w/e.
air to air Fierce is really good. im actually trying to mess with jumping roundhouse and finding good uses for it since it puts abel at a different angle so that could be helpful too.
his sweep is good since you can cancel it. cr.rh roll,rekka,wheel kick you choose how you want ot mix it up.
close st.fp is pretty good also. you can cancel after the first hit, you can super cancel after the second hit and it does pretty good damage.
im a bit tired right now but if you would like a more in depth one i guess i can try too. hah this is my first time really contributing to fighting games like this so hopefully im doing a good job haha. hope this helps! and if you want me to explain anything more i can try and do my best.

edit: to fulaani:
correction, his command throw beats everything on giefs wakeup. if its not on his wakeup abel loses (from my personal experience) so really this game you gotta play how everyone plays against gief. stay back kinda poke him and dont really rush him. wait for mistakes and punish.

[Fulaani]

yea that's what I meant, on okizeme. But yea I see how gief can just backdash and punish you hard.

The viper TK stuff though, I'll test it out personally with record mode but which is it for the other people reading this. punish with jab or fierce command throw?

[BustaBust]

its with jab.

[nf0x]

to nf0x:

f+mk is good to get in, pressure and add to your mix up game. one that i found EARLY on was f+mk dash cr.lk x3 st. lk and repeat but there are a bunch of things you can mix up with.
st.lk, cr.lk, cr.lp are all good pressure pokes to do after f+mk and you can mix it up. f+mk dash cr.lp x2 command throw etc.
st.mp is also good. it kinda works as an anti air but will often trade. also it a pretty good normal to use in general.
cr.mp is a really good normal and you can easily connect rekka so thats why that is good.
really though normal wise, i dont see myself using far st.fp too often, or close rh. close st. jab i dont really use either but other than that i use the rest of his normals.
cr.mk is really good and can work as an anti air. you can cancel off this move so you can see why this is good. cr.mk roll away or cr.mk wheel kick,rekka, w/e.
air to air Fierce is really good. im actually trying to mess with jumping roundhouse and finding good uses for it since it puts abel at a different angle so that could be helpful too.
his sweep is good since you can cancel it. cr.rh roll,rekka,wheel kick you choose how you want ot mix it up.
close st.fp is pretty good also. you can cancel after the first hit, you can super cancel after the second hit and it does pretty good damage.
im a bit tired right now but if you would like a more in depth one i guess i can try too. hah this is my first time really contributing to fighting games like this so hopefully im doing a good job haha. hope this helps! and if you want me to explain anything more i can try and do my best.

edit: to fulaani:
correction, his command throw beats everything on giefs wakeup. if its not on his wakeup abel loses (from my personal experience) so really this game you gotta play how everyone plays against gief. stay back kinda poke him and dont really rush him. wait for mistakes and punish.

They don't pay you enough.

Thanks for the strings + advice

[amuseME]

It's crazy how so many scrubs complain about Abel's throws, i get hate messages on the daily. :O

[Crisium]

Played a good Bison player who I had better luck against when I was using Vega. At least Vega can poke. With Abel I'd get light attacks into scissor kick block strings over and over again (6 hits if it connect!). Jumping was his game too. Or if I try to walk up I get s.HK in the face. Bison is just so... safe. The player was obviously in a class above me, but it was just frustrating not to have an answer with Abel.

[Shippoyasha]

I just HATE Bison in this game. He had plenty of options and now he teleports. That sucks when Abel has to work his way in all the time.

And Zangief too.. meh.

[blazeu25]

Uhhhh...I'll update this soon. Gen is horrible and I been working on him lately, havent even messed around with anyone else really cause Gen is so frustrating. I might end up using Abel as a main instead a secondary. If you think Vega is bad...lol

dont main abel!! we have enough of them in the a2 lobby room lol. me douj and now s4v said hes gona main him lol. b izm is the only one thats maining someone different and its gen. u should stop by the a2 room lately were using it as a sf4 lobby chat room lol

[ZeonTheUnborn]

Based on the event hubs tier list, Abel is pretty low down there, meanwhile Sagat is waaaaaaay up there.

But against Gief, Abel is 3:7 now, I don't know how they're doing this, but it sounds a little wacked out don't you think?

[MookieRah]

I'll open this up with the fact that I'm pretty n00by when it comes to SF. I've been a part of competitive SSBM for years, and from 04-06'ish I was even the top M2 player in the US (low tier ftw), so while I'm a n00b at this game I'm pretty well versed in competitive fighting and the mindset and all that. In any case, I really need some advice, as I'm not sure as to what all of my options are in some situations.

Pretty much all I've played so far is Shoto's. I dunno if Sagat generally counts as one, but he is also an issue. I feel completely neutered in most situations because of dragon punches. I am getting much better at dealing with them, as I typically try to bait them in many situations, but BECAUSE they are there it only makes the other problems I have worse.

It seems as if Abel's jab game just doesn't work out for me. In the case of shoto's it seems as if I begin jabbing it's just asking to be shoryuken'ed. I often find myself on the end of their jabs constantly locked in shields trying to get inside. I feel that I'm almost forced to turtle 90% of the time. To make things worse it's hard to get throws in, as the people I'm playing spend most of their time crouching whenever I'm relatively close. Cause of this I rarely am able to land command throws. To counter it I've been using COD, cause it's second hit acts as an overhead, but that I know isn't good overall cause the first hit is blocked, and they *could* shoryuken before the second hit, or EX it.

So here are my questions:
How do I deal with all this crouching, jabbing, shoryuken heavy nonsense? It's really annoying...

Are there some good options to shut down their jab game? I mean, I've tried EX COD and sometimes it works, other times it blows up in my face. What exactly are my good options in this situation?

Is there a way to safely poke at them? About the only thing I find semi-safe is his ->MK, and while that's one of Abel's best spacing moves, it seems like most other characters, ESPECIALLY Sagat, have better spacing options.

How effective are non-roll cross-ups? I've tried with limited success, and am not sure if I should pursue this method against shotos or not.

What are some good ways to abuse my opponents wake up? Right now I do a mix of baiting dragon punches, command throw, EX command throw, cr.MP, etc.

What are some good options for me on wake up? I feel particularly vulnerable because I feel like I'm playing rock, paper, scissors with only paper and rock. I've gotten really good at command throwing on get up, as well as EX command throwing, but other than that it seems like blocking is the only other option I have. I read the thread on the wakeup options and they mention rolling and jumping back, but are there any other things I could do?

[RSDeathscythe]

On jump ins, what is a good things to do? While blocking wakeup etc...

[Icege]

I've tried to Ultra Zangief out of lariat and got popped in the mouth :(

What to do vs. people that run away with jump back roundhouse all day? I can tell already that turtle Blanka is going to make me want to punch babies.

Side note, I was using s.hk to punish blocked cannon spikes and supers from Cammy... until I realized Rekkas punish them even better >.> Jab rekkas will hit. If you do it with reversal timing, it sometimes hits her while she's still in the air. I wonder if roll, command grab would work if they freeze up...

I couldn't c.hp her to save my life. The second hit almost always whiffed, even after cross-up j.mk and blocked Cannon Drills. Pretty frustrating. Only time I was able to c.hp her was after lv3 focus attack.

[BustaBust]

to mookierah:
how do i deal with cr.lp nonsense. ex command throw if you know they will do it. once u punish it a few times they will think twice about doing it when you have meter. for pokes, i mean abel's best pokes are st.lk, st.mp, cr.mk, cr.mp, and f+mk also ive been messin around with st.lp at max range and it seems to work pretty well just watch out because playing a shoto you may get srk'ed out of most of these if they are mashing it/expecting it. how effective is non roll cross ups. well it depends on how your opponent reacts. against shoto's though, they can srk you out of recovery. say for instance ryu, he can do an early jab uppercut on your recovery from roll and link into ultra. good bait for their wake up, it will work for a bit but not always, FA dash forward roll. they will tend to want to do a reversal attack to try to break armor.

to iceage:
best thing is to try to keep them jumping back til they hit the corner if you really cant find an answer. from there he will jump forward at you and you can work from there.

[Shogun of Live]

vs Zangief: What can i do against gief spamming lariats? Ex-Rekka seems to be the only thing that can get in and do some damage. I can't punish with an ultra because i get hit out of it (even though i thought that abel's ultra was invul from the waist up...), i obviously can't jump in and i can't even roll in. The only thing that i have been able to do at all is EX-rekka in, and if i dont have meter than im kind of screwed.



I hit them with a jump medium kick when they lariat, I do it as if I was trying to cross them up...Keep in mind this only works if they really just spamming the lariat, if you jump before the lariat starts you will get hit

[kNIGHT7]

Played a good Bison player who I had better luck against when I was using Vega. At least Vega can poke. With Abel I'd get light attacks into scissor kick block strings over and over again (6 hits if it connect!). Jumping was his game too. Or if I try to walk up I get s.HK in the face. Bison is just so... safe. The player was obviously in a class above me, but it was just frustrating not to have an answer with Abel.

In my recent experience with Bison i found that playing him aggressive worked. Don't give him a chance to charge anything. I was able to cross him up wih mk and beat him in the air with hp. Usually Bisions spam the kick/slide and psycho crusher, so with the latter I block (cause I haven't figured out how to beat it yet) and dash and trhow as he goes behind me. With the devil's reverse block the first hit and do a standing mp (correct me if I'm wrong) which will give you an uppercut motion when he comes back for the second over head hit. If you are consistent you can stop him from doing that. Hope this helps alittle.

Anyone has experience fighting Cammy? For some reason her speed and mix-up game are a problem for me.

[Shogun of Live]

I'll open this up with the fact that I'm pretty n00by when it comes to SF.

What are some good options for me on wake up? I feel particularly vulnerable because I feel like I'm playing rock, paper, scissors with only paper and rock. I've gotten really good at command throwing on get up, as well as EX command throwing, but other than that it seems like blocking is the only other option I have. I read the thread on the wakeup options and they mention rolling and jumping back, but are there any other things I could do?

since you said you were pretty nooby to SF, wanted to just remind you to press down right as you hit the ground to get up quicker

[Shogun of Live]

In my recent experience with Bison i found that playing him aggressive worked. Don't give him a chance to charge anything. I was able to cross him up wih mk and beat him in the air with hp. Usually Bisions spam the kick/slide and psycho crusher, so with the latter I block (cause I haven't figured out how to beat it yet) and dash and trhow as he goes behind me. With the devil's reverse block the first hit and do a standing mp (correct me if I'm wrong) which will give you an uppercut motion when he comes back for the second over head hit. If you are consistent you can stop him from doing that. Hope this helps alittle.




You can also do the cr. HP after blocking slide and psycho crusher

[Cowman715]

I'm a n00b so I don't know if it works all the time or if it works sometimes, but EX Terry-kick can beat out Akumas Ultra

But Abel's rolls can't dodge Akuma ultra.

[MookieRah]

Thanks BustaBust. For some reason I was thinking that the command throw couldn't grab if my opponent was crouching, but if I can EX throw them from their jab nonsense then that will completely make them rethink their strategy.

@Shogun of Live
Thanks for that info, but actually a friend pointed that out to me last night. I haven't had a chance to incorporate it into my game yet, but I'm guessing it will be very similar to teching in the smash series.

[Arkayne17]

So I played a bunch at Naptown clash ... and I learned vs.Vega...

Jump-back/forward Fierce kills him (depending on which what he jumping), and dont tech roll..

[akiramike]

Anyone got tips against lockdown dictator? His strings + scissors kick are too safe and FA doesn't work against it since its two hits. I have problems against his ambiguous crossups after blocked string and the only thing I can do is roll.

The few games I won were by playing super keep away with cr forward and j roundhouse anti air with Terry kick thrown in here and there but when dictator gets in it just seems like Abel can only block. When I try to jump away, I eat j strongx2 -> ultra.

[RSDeathscythe]

Right now Blanka has been pissing me off so much. What can I do to punish block blanka ball. And I lossed to a scrub Rose.(Didn't know the match up. :P) I read the strats, but there's gotta be something else I can do beside ultra on blanka ball.

[Arkayne17]

Anyone got tips against lockdown dictator? His strings + scissors kick are too safe and FA doesn't work against it since its two hits. I have problems against his ambiguous crossups after blocked string and the only thing I can do is roll.

The few games I won were by playing super keep away with cr forward and j roundhouse anti air with Terry kick thrown in here and there but when dictator gets in it just seems like Abel can only block. When I try to jump away, I eat j strongx2 -> ultra.


after blocked scissor kicks try.. F+mk-> Dash -> (whatever that will hit)

[nf0x]

Yo busta, here's one for you.

How do you stop a competent dictator? His standing rh forces me to not jump toward him. I don't think I have anything to punsh scissors, and his ex's are just too much in general. He has instant offense with one ex. I only won the few I did because of ape shit crazy guesses, but I can't see anything concrete that would make this match 5-5

[Darkyellow]

You can command grab the Dictator out of his block strings.

[shinsatsu]

Anyone got tips against lockdown dictator? His strings + scissors kick are too safe and FA doesn't work against it since its two hits. I have problems against his ambiguous crossups after blocked string and the only thing I can do is roll.

The few games I won were by playing super keep away with cr forward and j roundhouse anti air with Terry kick thrown in here and there but when dictator gets in it just seems like Abel can only block. When I try to jump away, I eat j strongx2 -> ultra.


Yo busta, here's one for you.

How do you stop a competent dictator? His standing rh forces me to not jump toward him. I don't think I have anything to punsh scissors, and his ex's are just too much in general. He has instant offense with one ex. I only won the few I did because of ape shit crazy guesses, but I can't see anything concrete that would make this match 5-5

Dictator is a hard match in general. Crossups won't work well because he can teleport or simple burn an ex to get out of there.

In the air, jump back fierce will beat a lot of his stuff, if you're afraid of his j.MP. If he ever jumps, roll under and punish. Additionally if he head stomps, roll from it if he goes towards you. You can punish a Devil's Reverse with an Ultra if he keeps spamming it away from you (not on hit).

Use EX Rekka's to get in if he likes spamming FK/MK since the armor will help you get through it. Once you're in, try to not let him out. Again his EX meter will let him get out of a lot of things, but your command throws should keep him scared since it can grab him out of things. His LK scissors is completely safe. A thing to note is that if he's spamming scissors kicks to chip you a little too much, FA the first hit and backdash the second hit, the second will whiff (because of backdash invuln) and you'll be up close with him.

Otherwise, good luck and try out basic Abel shenanigans. I'd put this match at 4-6 myself.


Right now Blanka has been pissing me off so much. What can I do to punish block blanka ball. And I lossed to a scrub Rose.(Didn't know the match up. :P) I read the strats, but there's gotta be something else I can do beside ultra on blanka ball.

There's nothing else you can do but Ultra (except if you're in the corner, maybe). However, a timed cr.MP (along with other things) can beat out a Blanka ball. This is a bad matchup for Abel though. Another 4-6 imo.

[akiramike]

You can command grab the Dictator out of his block strings.

Except the dictator I fought would poke just outside throw range. He just keeps you blocking with kicks and scissor kicks.

Thanks for the tips Shinsatsu. Need to try ex rekka. Its probably his only get out of my face move.

FA into backdash to avoid scissors? Wow. Come to think about it, its a good way to get away from dict but if you do it against a normal move he can just scissors on reaction. Abel has to work like crazy to beat dictator while he can just repeat strings ad nauseum.

[Darkyellow]

You can still catch his limbs with the command grab. You can pull some serious bs with the command grab like command grabbing someone out of almost max range crouch forward.

[Xx Thomahawk xX]

I saw bustas videos on youtube against boxer and it helped out with some things, but im still stomped what to do when he rushes me down. Can i ex tornado hold between punches?

And i need rushdown dictator help too. mainly on wakeup cus If i try to command throw him he'll jump and stomp on my head.Whats the best wakeup call for dictator? some general Honda and cammy matchup tips would be appriciated as well.

Thanks in Advance

[BustaBust]

okay so against dictator, say he likes to block strings into scissors even if you blocked all the hits he still doesn scissor kicks ex command throw, it will beat the scissor kicks due to the start up of it. if he likes to do st.rh randomly ex rekka it if you will do that enough he will think twice to throw the st.rh out when you have meter. if he is crossing you up roll out of there, focus back dash out do something to get out. also when he is doing block strings (this goes for pretty much everyone) mash ex command throw. when you knock him down (and i do this against all charge characters is) i do roll, roll that way he loses charge because you crossed him up with the first roll and then the second roll is to the garuntee that he loses his charge. also cross him up if you can. i mean the only thing he has are either tele, ex scissor or ex psycho.

so blanka, here is something that I like to do and dont see many others do. with abel if he keeps spamming blanka ball dash afterwards and throw out f+mk, if he does a normal or move forward it has a chance to hit. if he keeps spamming blanka balls keep doing it anyways he will end up closer to the corner where then he wont want to blanka ball cuz you can punish. i mean if he is gonna blanka ball from full screen either beat it with cr.lp or st.mp but if not just either block and do what i told you or do something else you prefer.

balrog, ya you can do ex command throw in between but the timing is a bit strict. what you can do though is if you see him walking back or charging walk forward then roll. he might throw a dash punch out and you can punish. also (not this doesnt work if the dash punch is at max range but) st.mp beats dash punch, cr.mk,st.fp,st.lk and ex command throws will beat them.

sorry for not really postin, im doing the best i can but the site is always busy/crashing

[Reipin Pillage]

You can still catch his limbs with the command grab. You can pull some serious bs with the command grab like command grabbing someone out of almost max range crouch forward.

Serious? I'm going to have to try this when I get home. The throw range extends to the characters limbs as well? That seems a little absurd... That would mean you could EX command throw at the end of a block string when you know a slower attack is coming.

[BustaBust]

if they are doing things at max range you might not be able to ex command throw them. and yes as i stated above you can mash ex command throw in between block strings.

[Icege]

vs. Blanka, do MK Wheel Kick after a blocked ball. If he does anything aside from super/ultra or s.hk, you'll hit him. Otherwise, he HAS to block it high. It even catches him out of dashing and hops. It also beats electricity if you do it with Reversal timing. s.hk will trade in favor of Abel.

Haven't tested it vs. other balls, but I did vs. normals/hops/everything else.

You can start rolling into command grab if Blanka starts getting scared and blocking afterwards.

[BustaBust]

that can work but if he blocks can he sweep you? you dont want to get knocked down of course. i dont have a console to test it out so post back if blanka can do his slide on a blocked one. im like 100% sure he can but hey if he cant than thats good.

[Arkayne17]

Vs. Blanka...

I command grabbed blanka out of electricity.. but I think its done with reversal timing?

Otherwise it was some lucky shit

*testing it right now*

*edit you can only EX command grab him on electricity start up.*

*edit you can MP cod( first hit )him out of blanka ball... its 50/50 because if its done early it wont trade but it not done early itll trade with blanka ball*

- What I mean by early is either when about to do it.. or when its headed toward you , its more a telegraphed blanka ball timing.

[Icege]

Hard for me to really test it in training mode unless my feet become hands. However, it looks like it's safe. The slide I seemed to get perfect timing on and was abel (har har) to block it every time. c.hk doesn't have the range to hit him afterwards either. Looks completely and totally safe as an option after blocked ball.

In fact, you could Focus through the slide if Blanka tries it and bring ruckus.

[BustaBust]

hmm i really dont think its safe. when you block the blanka ball and do mk wheel kick do you hit him? even if he blocks and does nothing after blanka ball? im pretty sure its not safe cuz abel doesn't have good recovery time after the wheel kick. on block he is at -9 frames and on hit he is at -4.

the only time you can reversal is on wake up. other wise its not a reversal. it doesnt have to be on electricity start up that you can ex command grab him. say he knocks you down and is spamming electricity already as you get up you can ex command throw. you can throw him out of electricity's start up. also at max range you can cr.mp electricity (non ex version) and you can sweep him out of it (both non/ex version)

edit: a friend of mine told me that if you did mk wheel kick after a block ball they ahve enough time to backdash and punish and maybe even upball. not safe on block just so you guys know

[Xx Thomahawk xX]

vs guile:

for his annoying double leg sweeps Abel has 3 beautiful options to kill this move. Do the following after you block the first sweep.

1. Focus attack (just absorb and immidiatly hit and block, if you charge the whole focus atttack you'll get flash kicked)
2.Command throw (does NOT have to be ex, but if you got meter to spare i would use it to stay safe)
3.EX change of direction (absorbs the second sweep and gurantees the full combo)

Abel is the Guile killer!!!

[BustaBust]

you can also roll in between the 1st and 2nd hit and go for a command grab. roll in between the hit and then roll again cuz he might try to flash kick and punish :D

[Arkayne17]

you can also roll in between the 1st and 2nd hit and go for a command grab. roll in between the hit and then roll again cuz he might try to flash kick and punish :D


Good to know , because right when I read this post... I got matched with a guile player.

[Icege]

hmm i really dont think its safe. when you block the blanka ball and do mk wheel kick do you hit him? even if he blocks and does nothing after blanka ball? im pretty sure its not safe cuz abel doesn't have good recovery time after the wheel kick. on block he is at -9 frames and on hit he is at -4.

the only time you can reversal is on wake up. other wise its not a reversal. it doesnt have to be on electricity start up that you can ex command grab him. say he knocks you down and is spamming electricity already as you get up you can ex command throw. you can throw him out of electricity's start up. also at max range you can cr.mp electricity (non ex version) and you can sweep him out of it (both non/ex version)

edit: a friend of mine told me that if you did mk wheel kick after a block ball they ahve enough time to backdash and punish and maybe even upball. not safe on block just so you guys know

I'm 99.99% sure that you're safe. Abel catches him near the edge of the range on the wheel kick, and from testing the ONLY thing that's been able to do anything to it is s.hk, but even then it trades in Abel's favor.

It's not guaranteed, but it does just about as much chip damage as the ball.

Reversals can be done on wake up, recovering from block stun, hit stun, and after flipping after being hit out of the air. I'll record a video here in a moment and show you what I'm talking about.

I tested it with Blanka hopping back and back dashing and it hit him every time. I'll set up my camera. Pardon the poor quality ahead of time.

[Icege]

This first video I tested Blanka's c.hk after a blocked MK Wheel Kick. I'll do one vs. slide in a few minutes. I blocked it the last time I tried, but just to double check and get video proof if it is true, I'll do it again. However, before I do so, please note that MK Wheel Kick is -9 on block and Blanka's d/f+hp slide is 10f start-up.

Anyways, the explanation: I recorded the dummy to Blanka Ball and then played it back so that I could block it and execute the Reversal Wheel Kick (look to the message that says "Reversal"). As soon as I did the Wheel Kick, I paused it while Abel was still en route to Blanka's dome, put the dummy on Human, placed the joystick on the ground and had to hold d/b with my toes (hence the scrolling during the pause screen, wanted to make sure I had it), then unpaused it while holding the pad in my hands. Blocked it, attempted c.hk, it misses.

The second video I recorded Blanka doing a ball, and then mashed 3K afterwards to get the hop. The first rep is to show what I did, then I follow it up with a Reversal MK Wheel Kick. As you can see in the video, Blanka gets the top of his head kicked in. Blanka's s.hk and MAYBE far s.lp are the only things that will do anything about this, but both of them trade in Abel's favor. The only thing I have yet to test is Vertical Ball and Horizontal Ball (Vert before the Wheel Kick connects, Hori after it is blocked)

My apologies for how long this is taking to get up. I'm trying to upload them to YouTube but they get stuck at 100% for some reason.

[Sev7en Eleven]

So.

I lost in the GS tourney to a Gief. I lose online matches all day against good Zangiefs I've read the match up but I seem to be at a loss.
I try to keep him out with normals, but he always seems to lariat (or green hand) his way in.

Any tips?


Edit:
Any good Zang vs Abel videos would be sweet too

[Arkayne17]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpIMMmV1sjY&feature=channel_page

Icege , theres one of the videos.. for some reason the second one never processed.

[Atb_555]

Does Blanka always bounce away from a blocked blanka ball regardless how far he does it? Assuming he goes the hardest hitting blanka ball relative to distance.

[BustaBust]

from that video alone, here are options that he can probably do, up ball, ultra, and dash back or even hop back. thats what it looks like from that video alone. and also it almost looks like blanka can slide before the hit of the wheel kick to go under not sure. he can probably mash electricity too. im just throwing ideas out. get videos up and prove this wrong please cuz right now i still believe its not safe just because he blocks.

[machinablack]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpIMMmV1sjY&feature=channel_page

Icege , theres one of the videos.. for some reason the second one never processed.

Laff. He blocks, so it must be safe! Where is the logic in that? You didn't even try to counter it. He can back dash before the wheel kick hits and Ultra.

[Arkayne17]

Laff. He blocks, so it must be safe! Where is the logic in that? You didn't even try to counter it. He can back dash before the wheel kick hits and Ultra.

LOL , if the wheel kick "DID" miss abel would be able to block. The ultra would get blocked or something, then abel has the opportunity to punish. For the simple fact of the matter were talking about a block situation here , Most players (blankas) potentially would block the wheel kick and not backdash. In a case you may have some who think to backdash.

So what your saying the event at play would go like this.

- Abel wheel kick
-blanka backdash
-blanka ultra
-abel blocks
-abel punish..

Abel Wins.

So wheres you logic?

And its funny , I was just at a tournament this weekend against a blanka , and the situation was actually some what like the one were talking about but at the end of the situation abel won.

[BustaBust]

i think he meant, blanka can ultra BEFORE the hit not after a blocked one thats what i think you got confused on. just from that video alone again i think blanka can back dash, ultra, up ball and maybe even hori ball. all that really needs to be done is more testing efficiently. get someone else to test this with you is probably the best way. and record and test EVERY possibility to so we know what can actually happen.

[Icege]

i think he meant, blanka can ultra BEFORE the hit not after a blocked one thats what i think you got confused on. just from that video alone again i think blanka can back dash, ultra, up ball and maybe even hori ball. all that really needs to be done is more testing efficiently. get someone else to test this with you is probably the best way. and record and test EVERY possibility to so we know what can actually happen.


I already said that Blanka can beat the Wheel Kick with Ultra. He cannot beat it with Vertical Ball. I've tested. He cannot Hori Ball afterwards to punish the Wheel Kick, or d/f+hp, or c.hk. I've tested them. He can super to beat the Wheel Kick. He can s.hk or maybe far s.lp to trade with the Wheel Kick, but it's in Abel's favor in terms of damage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc17Ex9pb30
vs. backhop. I don't Wheel Kick after the 1st ball to show that he is Backhopping. The 2nd time I do a reversal MK Wheel Kick and it spikes him in the dome. It's still processing atm. Hopefully it'll be up soon.

[ZeonTheUnborn]

After playing at Dibbz tonight, I've noticed these things with Abel.

1) I ultra as a "get of jail free card"- I tend to Ultra at the wrong moments because I try to predict the opponent.

2) I randomly roll into stupid shit, I.E. Akuma's Ultra - I believe it's because of the same reason as before, I try to use it as a get out of jail free card.

3) I use jump mk, crouch mp, CoD combo alot. - My opponent sees this coming and usually knocks me out the air and/or blocks the entire combo.

4) I use jumping as my main method to get across because I get zoned out - I generally jump into freaking DP and other random BS.

5) I crouch block alot which leads to overheads. - I have to find some way to avoid this...

6)I miss my chance to wake Tornado because my opponent plays mind games with me. - My last match was with C.Viper, I manged to knock my friend down, and oki Tornado him. The next time I ate an Ultra. The time after that I just stood there and blocked...and he jumped away. The time after that he jumped up and star falled him.

Ok, based off of what I told you guys, could you please help me tweak my gameplan?
(if I posted this in the wrong thread tell me so)

[BustaBust]

dont throw ultra out randomly, its easy to combo into. dont roll to much if they start punishing it and find another solution to get in. dont jump at them just dash in instead. use f+mk more to get in, it might help, try to use ex command throws more instead of getting hit by overheads or w/e. im kinda tired right now so im just gonna stop here.

[ZeonTheUnborn]

Alright, thanks Bust. I honestly never even USE f+mk in my entire time playing. I honestly thought that move was completely useless. So I'll remember this the next time I play with my friends. I'll try to see if I can record my matches and post them up here.

[yillin]

Is EX-command throw immune to only one hit or immune completely till the grab animation stops?

[randumbcat]

Alright, thanks Bust. I honestly never even USE f+mk in my entire time playing. I honestly thought that move was completely useless. So I'll remember this the next time I play with my friends. I'll try to see if I can record my matches and post them up here.


F+mk is too good. Many options there after a F+MK > Dash cancel.

It does take some timing and getting used to incorporating it into your gameplay. I find myself occasionally hesitating once i dash in and then eating an uppercat of somesort or getting out thrown. With a good poking game, it only adds to the pressure he can put on.

(can't wait for the replay save feature)

[One Hit Combo]

Is Tornado Throw really throw invul?

A Dhalsim was tossing me on his wake-up last night, and I was sure I was doing it right.


Btw, online... I get way too many of these:


When you got them scared of your yomi, you can LK roll their wakeup -> Tornado... then walk up.. EX Tornado their wake-up...


Not very good in the LOL RANDOM SUPER atmosphere of SF4, but I've found Abel scares people.



I use F+MK all the time. It's actually a great poke if you space it right. Online (different beast, I know), I usually crossup -> c.lp x3, F+MK... then if I feel brave, S.RH stuffs alot of stuff. It's a nice string.

[One Hit Combo]

I also need some tips versus Zangief, Cammy, and Blanka.

They seem to be really bad match-ups for Abel. Zangief especially...


I echo that random j.fp beats Vega. Sooo good.

[Reipin Pillage]

I've noticed a lot of people online, if they block the beginning of COD, will sit back and block all three and then counter. In response to that I've begun using Fierce COD and after the first hit I just stop and Command throw since it leaves you right within their range. I understand all three hits of the COD can be punished if blocked, but just throwing that out there. If you are going to get punished, you may as well go for the command throw :)

[Icege]

dont throw ultra out randomly, its easy to combo into. dont roll to much if they start punishing it and find another solution to get in. dont jump at them just dash in instead. use f+mk more to get in, it might help, try to use ex command throws more instead of getting hit by overheads or w/e. im kinda tired right now so im just gonna stop here.

To add to what Bust said, I had the same problem with just doing c.mp xx CoD everytime I was in. Now I'm using c.lp, s.mp xx CoD a lot more. That way I can mix it up with c.lp, c.lp, c.lk, f+mk xx dash, or c.lp into tick throw set-ups. That, and it gives me time to look and see if the c.lp hit so I can determine whether or not I need to hold off on the CoD.

[Cowman715]

I'm having a really hard time punishing Balrog (Boxer) His seem to just push me out of range if I block, and I'm pretty sure that most of his charge punches can break a focus. Any help?

[Severin-X]

I'm having a really hard time punishing Balrog (Boxer) His seem to just push me out of range if I block, and I'm pretty sure that most of his charge punches can break a focus. Any help?

The dash punches do have armor break but crouching mp. stuffs them which should help. His wake up headbutt isnt the best reversal on wake up. In my experience I have had luck crossing him up on wake up. Even if he does the headbutt i will usually miss and you can counter. The scary thing about boxer is he can do 40% or so off a crouching jab. I cannot say for certain but I think ex command grab beats all of boxers stuff on wakeup too but busta will know better than I on that one.

[DJRedrumofEPG]

I also need some tips versus Zangief, Cammy, and Blanka.

They seem to be really bad match-ups for Abel. Zangief especially...


I echo that random j.fp beats Vega. Sooo good.

With Gief, as in any other game, you have to keep him out of range. Easier said than done with Abel, but it is doable.

Toward.Forward does a great job of keeping Gief at bay when he's standing and has a fairly good range. If you connect with it, dash right after it. Be careful about this though, because you might dash right into lariats or SPDs. But it's good for pokes and occasionally throwing in that dash to scare them into thinking you're gonna throw them, which doesn't even have to be the case. You can roll, Rekka, Command Toss...anything really.

Standing RH, Jabs, Shorts, and the occasional wheel kick work on Gief.

Your jab command throw can beat Gief's moves clean if I recall correctly.

One thing about Gief, DONT CROSS HIM UP! You will eat Reversal SPD's and Lariats all day long.

C.Mk does pretty well against Gief's Jump ins. Beats some, trades with others.

If you get knocked down, rolling works well to reset the situation and null anything that Gief may try off of a jump in.

[BustaBust]

when gief has no meter do wheel kicks at max range, on gief's wake up you can command throw and it will beat everything he does BESIDES jumping or backdash so its a nice mixup. against gief try to out poke his pokes. also towards jumping fierce at max range beats lariat.

against balrog cr.mp is probably not the best thing to do since the range on it isnt far. if you wanted to punish dash punches (that arent at max range) yo ucan f+mk cr.mk st.mp and st.fp (<--- not recommended). also you can ex command grab the dash punches. the dash punches that break armor are charge punches, overhead dash punch, and the diagonal upwards one. the others you can focus/wont break armor.

[Icege]

Is Tornado Throw really throw invul?

A Dhalsim was tossing me on his wake-up last night, and I was sure I was doing it right.

I was chucking Dhalsim left and right earlier, but Gen was tossing me with ease :(

I suppose it's all timing based. I think Sim might lay on the ground longer than most chars.

[BustaBust]

it is all timing based. because you cannot be thrown out of regular command throw. gief's super and ultra can't even throw him out so there you have it. its a timing issue.

[blazeu25]

im having a hard time vs blanka players his jumpin RH just kills me. bust need advice!! lol

[DJRedrumofEPG]

Roll under his jump-ins or try to EX wheel kick that. Both take a fair amount of spidey sense to see, but if you have a jump happy Blanka, then that's rather easy to stop.

I don't know how viable C.Fierce and C.Forward are. C.Forward seems like it would miss.

[BustaBust]

well if he does it at a distance. do an early cr.fp (get the 2nd hit) to launch them then follow up with either rekka (1 hit) into ultra or just ultra. or you can try to focus counter hit for a crumple or roll, depending on how far he is from you neutral jump rh might work? not sure on that one just trying to think of ways right now. maybe jump back rh?

[DJRedrumofEPG]

Busta: Jump back Fierce? Maybe?

[BustaBust]

i dont know, those that i listed im not sure. i havent played with a blanka that likes to jump rh all day, i dont really even get to play sf4 anymore since i have no money. try it and post back if it works or not. i mean i havent done any of these i was jsut throwing out suggestions.

[Rinsuku]

Hey mod guy (whoever you are) for this forum. Can we have character sub forums for the matchups, so it's easier to sort out?

[Bomberman3000]

For some odd stupid reason, I'm having trouble against the likes of Cammy. I keep getting stuffed out of most of my normals (i might be using the wrong normal attacks, but who knows).

Anything gaurenteed that can snuff a hyper-active Cammy that Drills and Spikes into obsession?

(I know how to punish when she does something stupid, but then again, been fighting against the hyper-active turtle varieties that makes guessing wrong...painful).

...omg I wish Abel's anti-air had more priority....

[blazeu25]

how bout rufus everythign he does is so damn safe i cant even ex command grab after his massiah

[BustaBust]

if you are expecting him to messiah bait it out, and roll ultra.

[DJRedrumofEPG]

Dive Kicks are pretty much un-fucking-stoppable. You need to be more mobile to beat Rufus.

I don't even bother trying to punish Messiah kicks unless I roll through it. You're better off trying to block it and tech a throw on reaction, then mixup.


For some odd stupid reason, I'm having trouble against the likes of Cammy. I keep getting stuffed out of most of my normals (i might be using the wrong normal attacks, but who knows).

Anything gaurenteed that can snuff a hyper-active Cammy that Drills and Spikes into obsession?

(I know how to punish when she does something stupid, but then again, been fighting against the hyper-active turtle varieties that makes guessing wrong...painful).

...omg I wish Abel's anti-air had more priority....

You need to push Cammy into making stupid mistakes, which is something that Abel excels at. If you pressure Cammy and limit her options correctly, she can't really retaliate, unless she decides to reversal Cannon Spike.

Don't whore out the -> forwards, because her standing forward beats yours. Keep the fight in close and try to expect reversal Cannon Spike. Remember to dash if you either land or get the -> forward blocked. Then you mixup from there with Rekkas, Command toss, regular throw, roll...etc.

Command Toss beats out everything she does on wakeup except for Cannon Spikes (reversal only)

Abel's JHP beats out Cammy's jumps clean.

Keep the pressure on and your standard Abel Mixups should beat Cammy's (hawt) ass

[Bomberman3000]

Dive Kicks are pretty much un-fucking-stoppable. You need to be more mobile to beat Rufus.

I don't even bother trying to punish Messiah kicks unless I roll through it. You're better off trying to block it and tech a throw on reaction, then mixup.



You need to push Cammy into making stupid mistakes, which is something that Abel excels at. If you pressure Cammy and limit her options correctly, she can't really retaliate, unless she decides to reversal Cannon Spike.

Don't whore out the -> forwards, because her standing forward beats yours. Keep the fight in close and try to expect reversal Cannon Spike. Remember to dash if you either land or get the -> forward blocked. Then you mixup from there with Rekkas, Command toss, regular throw, roll...etc.

Command Toss beats out everything she does on wakeup except for Cannon Spikes (reversal only)

Abel's JHP beats out Cammy's jumps clean.

Keep the pressure on and your standard Abel Mixups should beat Cammy's (hawt) ass

Jumping hard punches...I've been using his jHK against most other characters and seemed to work, though I guess time to alter my jumping habits a bit.

So I gotta play even safer, yet stay in her face more.... Alright, I'll see what I can do.

The crack shoe DOES come in handy in some situations.

[Arkayne17]

So Ive been doing some testing with abel , cause I realized that people online seem to only wanna play ken/ryu. I realized some people dont know how to beat the spammable moves of a character that they dont know the matchup of.

So Im gonna make a video of ways to punish a block or whiffed move of every charcater in hopes people get an idea of the matchups. Considering you barely see half of the cast played online.


Any Input feel free to hit me up on here on AIM..

How do you guys feel about this? Potentially it could even become an abel tutorial video LOL

[Rinsuku]

that would be tight. I wish I could help but my computer doesn't have an SD card reader T_T

[Bomberman3000]

So Ive been doing some testing with abel , cause I realized that people online seem to only wanna play ken/ryu. I realized some people dont know how to beat the spammable moves of a character that they dont know the matchup of.

So Im gonna make a video of ways to punish a block or whiffed move of every charcater in hopes people get an idea of the matchups. Considering you barely see half of the cast played online.


Any Input feel free to hit me up on here on AIM..

How do you guys feel about this? Potentially it could even become an abel tutorial video LOL

Oh god PLEASE do that would be SO sexy of you!!:lovin:

[Larva18]

I play Abel exclusively in SF IV; for some reason I don't like the other characters :rofl:. In my experience, bad match up with Abel is Blanka and Gief. A good blanka can electrify Abel to death given the right distance. Gief's EX palm is bad news.
Abel imo should really have no problem vs shotos, even Akuma. Just stick with basic combo(mk--> 3-punch special), know the power of roll both offensively and defensively and his mule kick range.

[Arkayne17]

I play Abel exclusively in SF IV; for some reason I don't like the other characters :rofl:. In my experience, bad match up with Abel is Blanka and Gief. A good blanka can electrify Abel to death given the right distance. Gief's EX palm is bad news.
Abel imo should really have no problem vs shotos, even Akuma. Just stick with basic combo(mk--> 3-punch special), know the power of roll both offensively and defensively and his mule kick range.


lol true that bro , if you ask me bad matchup or potential bad matchups are... from my experience

Blanka and gief so far.. Im starting to think vega might be a bad matchup for him also.. and beleive it or not bison seems to be a big problem.

Man I swear... cammy gets on my goddamn nerves especially when its spam happy jump around the screen and never stop cammy. I swear its almost like abel can barely punish her spiral arrow. I know its unsafe on block , but today I played a cammy and for the life of me I could not punish the spiral arrow correctly. Everytime I blocked it I went for a command grab or a rekka and then Id get popped in the mouth with a cannon spike before the spiral arrow even stopped.. and Im just like 0_O?

I Dunno maybe it was just from online?

(not you icege LOL)

[sycoticfatboi]

One of the worst match ups so far i played is chun and right next to chun is balrog. Any tips on chun i really appreciate it. When i fight rog players i wait for openings and try to get in there. When i get rog players on the floor i apply pressure because i think cross overs messes him up. But chun on the other hand her pokes are fast and have longer range then rog. I literally think chun is abels worst match up. I find chun a very tricky character to fight also when you try get in there. Her EX spinning bird fucks me up and fucks up his cross overs. If i get lucky enough i get in some tick grabs and etc. Her pokes can mess up abels wheel kick. But sometimes doing a wheel kick at the right time can do some nasty damage to her when you time it right and hit her with it when she trys to poke to late or jump. Whenever i can predict pokes i EX CoD. I try to get in those forward kicks and dash in to keep trying to apply pressure but sometimes her pokes just beat the crap out of that too. Even when i block her Ex spinning bird she becomes safe i think unless someone knows what i can do to punish that. Focus attacks work really well on chuns QCB + K if you can predict those. But when they do it after her fireball and when you focus attack its not long enough to stun her but i sometimes dash after the hit and try to get a grab in or his command grab. But if she breaks your grab she can start poking and it gets tough again. So any tips on how to fight chun i greatly appreciate it. I also find Bison, Honda, and Blanka a tough match up also but not as bad as chun.

[BustaBust]

against chun really just ex rekka her pokes and if you have meter fadc cr.fp ultra. really easy / free ultra. also when she has meter dont cross her up simple as that but when she doesnt have meter cross up up every time. dont wheel kick because she can ultra you (i think only if it whiffs) and her pokes are good so try not to use this move too much. if the person likes to press a button after a f+mk just ex command throw. i really wouldnt say this is abel's worst match up.

[nf0x]

against chun really just ex rekka her pokes and if you have meter fadc cr.fp ultra. really easy / free ultra. also when she has meter dont cross her up simple as that but when she doesnt have meter cross up up every time. dont wheel kick because she can ultra you (i think only if it whiffs) and her pokes are good so try not to use this move too much. if the person likes to press a button after a f+mk just ex command throw. i really wouldnt say this is abel's worst match up.

I agree. I don't feel like this is a terrible match up for abel at all; it's tough though.

Like busta said, don't cross up when she has meter. Get a feel for the player and how he reacts to you being in their face when they're standing up, then mix up accordingly. Saving attack can be dangerous in this fight. Be careful as chuns specials consist of multiple hits, so reckless saving attacks will get you blasted.

as usual, f+mk is your friend. use it liberally

[bttp9999]

So far, my worst match-ups have been against Balrog and Gief. I understand my trouble with Mr. I-wrestle-bears-for-fun, but any tips on Balrog? I just do NOT see enough of them online, and then suddenly I fought three of them today.

[Xx Thomahawk xX]

Id say the easiest matchup for Abel is Guile . Abel kills guile. But im horrible against Zangief, Blanka and Bison. so deep tutorial vids for those matchups would be supreme.

[randumbcat]

I also need some tips versus Zangief, Cammy, and Blanka.

They seem to be really bad match-ups for Abel. Zangief especially...


I echo that random j.fp beats Vega. Sooo good.

Not too sure if the giefs I've playd knew what they were doing but well timed lk crack shoot ownd all day. Especially cancelled from cr. Rh

[Xx Thomahawk xX]

Not too sure if the giefs I've playd knew what they were doing but well timed lk crack shoot ownd all day. Especially cancelled from cr. Rh

the zangiefs i played lariats me all day the crack shoot wont work for me. I jus need an answer for his lariat.

[randumbcat]

the zangiefs i played lariats me all day the crack shoot wont work for me. I jus need an answer for his lariat.

Really? Ill have to pay more attention next time I play a gief but so far in my xperience crack shoot hits lariat. Busta, haven't tried it yet but does ultra hit lariat?

[Xx Thomahawk xX]

Really? Ill have to pay more attention next time I play a gief but so far in my xperience crack shoot hits lariat. Busta, haven't tried it yet but does ultra hit lariat?

not for me it doesnt i tried it a couple times. If it can work, then timing would have to be extra extra extra extra extra strict. But i highly doubht it works.

[Reipin Pillage]

I think it has to do with distance rather then timing...

[DJRedrumofEPG]

NEW ABEL INFO FOR ANYONE WHO ASKED:

Abel CAN kara-throw with MK. It does move him forward, but only a little noticable bit. I wouldn't say it's worth it to kara throw with Abel, because the range is so small. I'm still working on trying to do Kara Tornado throw and Kara Falling Sky.

Blanka Jumping Roundhouse stuff

C.Mk Beats it Clean
C.HP beats it clean for one hit.
J.Mk beats it clean
J.HP beats it clean
Neutral Jump HK trades.

Against Cammy:

She can Cannon Spike (reversal or not) and that will beat out any tornado throw attempt, even if you jump in with MK or LP to tick it.

Her Standing MK beats EVERY one of your pokes at max range. It also beats Rekkas and Wheel Kick. You have to either roll or Focus Attack thru it. Crouching Jab trades sometimes with it.

If you block a Spiral Arrow, you can either combo into Rekka or Tornado Throw.

Against Gief's Lariat

You should only Wheel Kick the Lariat if you're punishing it. It trades with Lariat on its startup.

Rekka beats Lariat at max range. EX beats it clean at any range, since it absorbs a hit when you throw it.

[Strikeshell]

Well first want to thank everyone that has been contributing all the info Ive been soaking up especially Busta...Im out here in NY trying to spread that abel technology...for some reason an aggressive Guile picks me apart...the round starts they go backwards and begin the sonic booms...and than theyll use that to move in and start j.rh, c.rh...so when I anticipate the sweep I focus that last hit but than usually get hit with a flash kick...than guile starts it all over again...and if I decide not to risk it and block he will either immdiately throw out another sonic boom or walk the short distance and throw...and than since they know I have a weak aa game they start the j. rh, c.rh all over again...

[Natty]

What's the best way to utilise f+mk? I use it dash foward and eat a jab or a sweep before I can react

[DJRedrumofEPG]

What's the best way to utilise f+mk? I use it dash foward and eat a jab or a sweep before I can react

Then your opponent is doing their job by getting in the jab. Normally after I dash, I go for a throw. But if my opponent catches on and does that, I would either A)Go for a cmk to Rekka or B) Roll.

I'll test this out for you today and see how it goes and I'll give you a more definite answer.


for some reason an aggressive Guile picks me apart...the round starts they go backwards and begin the sonic booms...and than theyll use that to move in and start j.rh, c.rh...so when I anticipate the sweep I focus that last hit but than usually get hit with a flash kick...than guile starts it all over again...and if I decide not to risk it and block he will either immdiately throw out another sonic boom or walk the short distance and throw...and than since they know I have a weak aa game they start the j. rh, c.rh all over again

You mean they're just J.Rh into footsweep? Lords.

What you need to do is roll under the sonic booms. If Guile Jumps after that, you can C. Fierce AA.

Alternatively, you jump the Sonic Boom (neutral jump) and wait to see what guile does. If he moves in, then expect to tech throw on reaction. If he throws another sonic boom, then just jump it again. If he jumps after throwing the sonic boom, then J.MK, J. Fierce and Neutral J. RH all beat him. Also, C.Mk beats him on the ground if he wants to jump in.

[Xx Thomahawk xX]

Well first want to thank everyone that has been contributing all the info Ive been soaking up especially Busta...Im out here in NY trying to spread that abel technology...for some reason an aggressive Guile picks me apart...the round starts they go backwards and begin the sonic booms...and than theyll use that to move in and start j.rh, c.rh...so when I anticipate the sweep I focus that last hit but than usually get hit with a flash kick...than guile starts it all over again...and if I decide not to risk it and block he will either immdiately throw out another sonic boom or walk the short distance and throw...and than since they know I have a weak aa game they start the j. rh, c.rh all over again...

read this.

vs guile:

for his annoying double leg sweeps Abel has 3 beautiful options to kill this move. Do the following after you block the first sweep.

1. Focus attack (just absorb and immidiatly hit and block, if you charge the whole focus atttack you'll get flash kicked)
2.Command throw (does NOT have to be ex, but if you got meter to spare i would use it to stay safe)
3.EX change of direction (absorbs the second sweep and gurantees the full combo)

Abel is the Guile killer!!!

Busta also said you can roll through his second sweep so that makes 4 ways to beat his double leg sweep. without his double leg sweep you got it in the bag.

[BustaBust]

to noodleman:
if you didnt know you can kara throw with lk. he already had a kara throw. anyways try to do kara command throw cuz that would be really good considering the range of the jab command throw you will add more range to it.

natty:
f+mk is (in my opinion) the best way to get in. if you noticed they are hitting you after you dash EX command throw! cuz then if they are smart they would know regular throws beat command throws and then maybe they will try to throw tech so then regular command throw. or mix up your game with block strings afterwards.

strikeshell:
if you like to focus the sweep and he goes for a flash kick all the time do focus attack (hits) back dash and he will probably flash kick and you can punish from there. seriously once you knock guile down just cross him up. fine maybe you will eat a flash kick take it, for the most part the flash kicks miss. he can ultra you on cross up too but really he is fucked when you cross him up.

[Xx Thomahawk xX]

vs zangiefs lariats.

1.Not even ex rekka will work up close, only at mid to max range. if youre too close he will still hit you.

2.Standing Fierce BEATS IT CLEAN at MID range (the hitbox on lariat is pretty big)

3.ULTRA DOES WORK!!! But be at mid to long range and it will hit due to the hitbox. Wait until the very near end of his lariat (near the end of his cry that goes aaaaarryyyyeeeaahh) and ultra him. I even put it on all block to know for sure.

[BustaBust]

st.mp beats it too at max range. also about the ultra thing, if you are too close the lariat has a chance to hit you.

[Icege]

If people are hitting you or mashing jab after f+mk xx dash, stick close s.hp down their throats. I've had fairly good success just doing that against people trying to mash out or jump away afterwards. You get MP Rekkas on hit, and if meter is available, FADC c.hp Ultra.

Of course, this changes if their jabs can beat the fierce and they're one of the characters that can avoid the first hit by ducking.

Oh, and after landing an MP Rekka, I <3 stopping the string and just doing Tornado Throw after the first hit.

[Strikeshell]

Thanx for the feedback...I read that I could use c. mk for aa but Ive never used it because I figured it would trade or get stuffed most times...and Ive never really used any of his j attacks unless for a cross up j. mk...and the throw after blocking first sweep...has anyone been able to use that consistently? Ill test it out in training mode...and Ill def start back dashing after the focus Im in the habit of going forward with Ryu/Sagat/Ken being my subs...

[RSDeathscythe]

Well since everyone and their mother plays Ken. What is a good this to do since they always like to jump in RH and then c.rh. What are good ways to punish it? Sometimes FA works, but not always. Would c.mk work?

[EndlessMike]

It seems Abel is at a huge disadvantage when playing against shotos.

[SpicyCrab]

Well since everyone and their mother plays Ken. What is a good this to do since they always like to jump in RH and then c.rh. What are good ways to punish it? Sometimes FA works, but not always. Would c.mk work?

c.mk as anti air

Another technique is to predict the jump in and do j.fp, you'll beat the FP clean every time if you do the FP early enough. Better yet, you land directly next to him on the ground.

Wait for the inevitable reversal shoryuken as he gets up and then pick him up, twirl him around your head and throw his face at the ground.

[RSDeathscythe]

c.mk as anti air

Another technique is to predict the jump in and do j.fp, you'll beat the FP clean every time if you do the FP early enough. Better yet, you land directly next to him on the ground.

Wait for the inevitable reversal shoryuken as he gets up and then pick him up, twirl him around your head and throw his face at the ground.

Would it be better to punish SRK with c.mp to rekka than, FP command grab?

[machinablack]

Would it be better to punish SRK with c.mp to rekka than, FP command grab?

The FP command grab will do more damage. The cod combo you mentioned will build slightly more meter and do slightly more stun.

The choice is yours!

[Icege]

Would it be better to punish SRK with c.mp to rekka than, FP command grab?

Even better do do close s.hp xx MP CoD

Or c.lp, s.hp xx MP CoD

Or f+mk xx dash, close s.hp xx MP CoD (gangsta gangsta!) :lovin:

I'm really digging the c.lp, s.hp link. Pretty easy and consistently hits MP CoD afterwards. Easier than c.lp, s.mp at least.

Little funny, but if you do something like cross-up j.mk, land, c.lp, s.hp xx MP CoD xx FADC, c.hp xx LK Roll, s.lp xx LK Roll, reset behind them, f+mk xx dash, s.hp xx MP CoD xx FADC, c.hp xx LK Roll, c.hp xx LK Roll, reset in front of them, c.hp, Ultra most characters will be dead or have a sliver of health left :lol:

I definitely like s.lp xx roll now though. Granted most of the time I do it I ALWAYS end up behind the opponent, it does give me time to land first and stuff whatever I want down their throat.

[Arkayne17]

Even better do do close s.hp xx MP CoD

Or c.lp, s.hp xx MP CoD

Or f+mk xx dash, close s.hp xx MP CoD (gangsta gangsta!) :lovin:

I'm really digging the c.lp, s.hp link. Pretty easy and consistently hits MP CoD afterwards. Easier than c.lp, s.mp at least.

Little funny, but if you do something like cross-up j.mk, land, c.lp, s.hp xx MP CoD xx FADC, c.hp xx LK Roll, s.lp xx LK Roll, reset behind them, f+mk xx dash, s.hp xx MP CoD xx FADC, c.hp xx LK Roll, c.hp xx LK Roll, reset in front of them, c.hp, Ultra most characters will be dead or have a sliver of health left :lol:

I definitely like s.lp xx roll now though. Granted most of the time I do it I ALWAYS end up behind the opponent, it does give me time to land first and stuff whatever I want down their throat.


Stop showing off icege lol.... But No
This one is My choice XD


f+mk xx dash, close s.hp xx MP CoD (gangsta gangsta!) :lovin:

I like the options I get off the knockdown.

[Fulaani]

Why MP cod after st.hp. HP cod combos after st.hp.

[ZeonTheUnborn]

Well since everyone and their mother plays Ken. What is a good this to do since they always like to jump in RH and then c.rh. What are good ways to punish it? Sometimes FA works, but not always. Would c.mk work?

Roll, if you cant reaction sky fall, do the Rh roll. Gives you alot of breathing space.
Don't crouch block too often, because they will do the crossup combo. Also, if they empty jump, (and they are close) do st.FP it smacks the shit out them.

I find that most Ryu and Ken and Akuma scrubs think that Shoryuken is their ticket to freedom. So on knockdown, get ready to crouch block(saves you from everything but a throw). So stay just out of their throwing range, but within Tornado Range. And if you get them down to oh say...quarter life? They jump their asses off. DON'T FOLLOW THEM MID-AIR. Dash after them, better yet, walk. Because they back themselves up in the corner and they try to fireball you to death. Don't roll here, because theres nowhere for Abel to go, that gives them free sweep.

Anyway, tonight I played a bunch of matches, and heres my recordings, help me tweak this if you will.

Crouch block at right time
Don't be over aggressive
Don't randomly wheel kick
Don't chase after them(jumping)

Don't try to combo all the time

st.FP is good for jump ins

Roll to avoid cross ups

I don't know how much of that is sensable, so help me out.


edit: Sometimes that inevitable reversal DP doesn't come out, they simply wake up and throw me, or walk up and throw me. So if I see them walk up, I guess I should smack the holy hell out them, but what about wake up throws? How do I deal with that?

[machinablack]

Why MP cod after st.hp. HP cod combos after st.hp.

I was wondering the same thing.

[Rinsuku]

to noodleman:
if you didnt know you can kara throw with lk. he already had a kara throw. anyways try to do kara command throw cuz that would be really good considering the range of the jab command throw you will add more range to it.

Holy crap. Busta you never told me I could kara with lk. Is it worth it?

[Tuna]

read this.


Busta also said you can roll through his second sweep so that makes 4 ways to beat his double leg sweep. without his double leg sweep you got it in the bag.

You can also do the flip kick(don't know what its actually called) after the first hit of the sweep and it will nail guile. Basically, if guile uses his sweep against you, you get free hits.

[Icege]

Why MP cod after st.hp. HP cod combos after st.hp.

Because I've had issues with HP CoD connecting after s.hp. It'll randomly get blocked. It's most likely because of playing online though.

[Cowboyday]

Kara range on short is ridiculously small. Been having problems with the usual suspects, Zangief, Blanka, Sagat.

Standing Fierce been giving me some success on poking out zangief if I get a life lead. I was able to snag sakura out of her hurricane a couple times on reaction with skyfall without trading or anything also. Low short, close fierce links, but that timing is super strict. Might be worth going for for counterhit setups but idk.

^
Random stuff. I'm getting on to play right now! PS3N cowboyday

[vapulus]

edit: Sometimes that inevitable reversal DP doesn't come out, they simply wake up and throw me, or walk up and throw me. So if I see them walk up, I guess I should smack the holy hell out them, but what about wake up throws? How do I deal with that?

Don't crowd the corpse.

Don't be standing in their throw range if they've given you ANY indication that they might wake-up throw. Command throw range > throw range.

If it's Ken and he might kara-throw on wakeup, i'd rather eat a wakeup kara occasionally than that freaking HP SRK. Or just do what I do and fly balls to the wall with meaties if i get the feeling they're going to be cute about wakeup throws.

[Nocturnal]

For those having problems with Shotos jumping in, down + HP is your friend when you get a counter hit off it. It can trade if they time their jump in correctly but even then they keep them from jumping in to put pressure on you.

[Rinsuku]

After making them scared of Forward + Mk, I usually hit them with it and not dash in. It'll sometimes bait a srk. Srk + whiff = Punish and eventually Win.

[Arkayne17]

After making them scared of Forward + Mk, I usually hit them with it and not dash in. It'll sometimes bait a srk. Srk + whiff = Punish and eventually Win.

Whats funny is I think abel is a shoto killer , he can bait SRK's really well , not to mention baiting projectiles = Free ultra.

[yillin]

I love hk wheel kicking people. They just never assume it can reach almost full screen, and its an overhead. I think my success rate with it landing is like 95%.

If you and your opponent are just having a standoff hk wheel kick. It will suprise them. Also, I find if you get as far away from zangief as you can and just wheel kick him a bunch, it makes him relatively easy to break down. wheel kick, jump away (to avoid grab). Max range wheel kick also beats lariat I think. I know it also beats regular banishing hands, and its fun to stuff him when he tries to do his full body jump.

[BustaBust]

when he has meter you dont wheel kick because ex green hand will beat it / knock you down and thats not where you want to be against gief. i mean if your playing a gief that cant react that fast then keep doing it but i learned really quick to never wheel kick when he has meter.

[Cowman715]

Ignore this post

[K0rN b4LL]

I have a real problem dealing with people who jump around alot. Does anyone have any ideas on how to ground them with Abel?

[Rinsuku]

I have a real problem dealing with people who jump around alot. Does anyone have any ideas on how to ground them with Abel?

You could psychic star fall them. You can also wheel kick them.

[Severin-X]

I have a real problem dealing with people who jump around alot. Does anyone have any ideas on how to ground them with Abel?

Early jump FP has really good priority as well. Beats most things and usually you get more damage on trades.

[Arkayne17]

Early jump FP has really good priority as well. Beats most things and usually you get more damage on trades.

Thats probably your best bet.. sometime you can roll under skyfall them , or potentially roll then wheel kick.

[MrHits]

This may be irrelevant, but when I play against kens and do basic shit like, mixups on their wakeup or whatever, and kick their ass, I've gotten a lot of messages calling me cheap. like "that gay rolling throw shit." I'm serious, it's really funny.

But, more on topic, I too sometimes have a hard time with jump-happy shotos.
Against the scrubby ones it gets pretty comical, they jump away all day and I just roll after them forever until they're caught and comboed.

I use j.rk alot but maybe I'll try j.fp for air to air. Sometimes you can just command throw as they land, but if they go fierce dp you're on fire.

[Severin-X]

This may be irrelevant, but when I play against kens and do basic shit like, mixups on their wakeup or whatever, and kick their ass, I've gotten a lot of messages calling me cheap. like "that gay rolling throw shit." I'm serious, it's really funny.

But, more on topic, I too sometimes have a hard time with jump-happy shotos.
Against the scrubby ones it gets pretty comical, they jump away all day and I just roll after them forever until they're caught and comboed.

I use j.rk alot but maybe I'll try j.fp for air to air. Sometimes you can just command throw as they land, but if they go fierce dp you're on fire.

In my experience j. fp comes out quicker so its usually a better option. Plus you can usually just bait "jump happy" shotos anyway. Most of them are just looking for a chance to hit fierce dp. Just wait and punish accordingly. You can also dash under their jump so they land right next to you and punish there too. Personally I think its funny when they jump themselves into a corner. They dp in panic and you can start your mix up game. Overall shotos are an easy match up for Abel. Especially if you can teach them to not wake up Dp. Then you are free to ruin them.

[Severin-X]

Thats probably your best bet.. sometime you can roll under skyfall them , or potentially roll then wheel kick.

I have never had any luck skyfall as an anti-air only as a mixup option or combo ender. Its got crappy priority. Usually you get smacked int he face or trade for bad damage. C. fp done early works well as anti-air though. Sometimes I just roll out to safety to buy a moment to reset things so to speak. Most shotos are easy to frustrate.

[Fulaani]

Played a good Bison player who I had better luck against when I was using Vega. At least Vega can poke. With Abel I'd get light attacks into scissor kick block strings over and over again (6 hits if it connect!). Jumping was his game too. Or if I try to walk up I get s.HK in the face. Bison is just so... safe. The player was obviously in a class above me, but it was just frustrating not to have an answer with Abel.
this is exactly what Im strugling with. I have a friend with a sick Bison lockdown. It's all block string block string into LK scissors. His normals are way faster than mine so I can't interupt. I occasially am able to interrupt blockstrings with EX command throw but he;s smart and wont leave openings usually. He also likes to neutral jump HK and do other random jumps on me cause abels AA is weak.

Once I get the knockdown I try to get on that fast but he is usually able to get with either teleport or EX psyco.

*edit* He likes to add random FAs in the mix like those daigo inoue vids. Not to say my friend is on that level but the entire playstyle is incredibly similar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWAPsF738N8

ANyone with any bison tips?

[ZeonTheUnborn]

Ok, I played a bunch of matches tonight against Balrog, and heres what I found...

1) Abel can not, I mean absolutely NOT out poke Balrog.

2)Abel under no circumstances should not jump at Balrog.

3)I can't punish that damn charge punch, it puts Balrog out range and it allows him to start that damn string over again.

Anybody got any tips on dealing with that damn boxer?

[BustaBust]

if you can react to his dash punches punish with ultra. his charge punch/turn punch or w/e that should be the easiest to deal with. either poke him out since it does have a bit of start up (since he turns) with f+mk or st.mp or cr.mk or even sweep his ass or you can just ex command thow.

bison: just remember you can focus devils reverse or w/e (of the air stuff he has) and if he is whiffing devils reverse for meter you can ultra him on his way down. if he gets you in block strings ex command throw, either you will throw him in between hits or you can throw him out before the scissor kicks come out (due to start up). if you see the st.rh coming walk up ex rekka and if you have meter just fadc into cr.fp ultra. also just post exactly what you guys have problems with to make answering easier instead of just generic/general answers that can almost apply to everyone.

[Fulaani]

lso just post exactly what you guys have problems with to make answering easier instead of just generic/general answers that can almost apply to everyone.I tried, but dude was just dominating me completely using the stuff I mentioned:sad:

Thanks though man.

[BustaBust]

ah i see, well hope that helped you! pretty generic answer heh.

also today i was playing a blanka player. i tried your method out ( reversal mk wheel kick) it never hit let alone it didnt even chip. he had plenty of time to dash back walk back or even jump back. and YES i made sure it was reversal and it even came up on the screen. it never hit and he was able to react to it and avoid it

[just6822]

Either I'm blind or I haven't seen any information vs. Sagat.

I'm guessing it's the same as shotos?

[Icege]

ah i see, well hope that helped you! pretty generic answer heh.

also today i was playing a blanka player. i tried your method out ( reversal mk wheel kick) it never hit let alone it didnt even chip. he had plenty of time to dash back walk back or even jump back. and YES i made sure it was reversal and it even came up on the screen. it never hit and he was able to react to it and avoid it

Strange. I did it last night and had it hit everytime.

[BustaBust]

well i was playing at the arcade today and was doing it against a a good blanka to see if it really worked. every time i did it he avoided it. i was gonna video tape it but my camera wasnt on me.

[Fulaani]

ah i see, well hope that helped you! pretty generic answer heh.

also today i was playing a blanka player. i tried your method out ( reversal mk wheel kick) it never hit let alone it didnt even chip. he had plenty of time to dash back walk back or even jump back. and YES i made sure it was reversal and it even came up on the screen. it never hit and he was able to react to it and avoid it
I'll let you know if it helped next time i play him lol.

that wasnt my method though if you aimed that at me. I honestly never faced a blanka as abel.

[BustaBust]

no it was aimed at whoever said it worked. i tried it and it didnt work heh. i was going to make a video showing that they can back dash or walk away or w/e he did because it didnt even chip.

[Arkayne17]

I was playin ga good blanka today offline.. and reversal wheel kicks were working like a charm so well he stopped blanka balling me.
Everytime I reversal wheel kicked , I got put in a good postion to choose my next mixup. I played about 60 matches vs blanka.. learned alot of things.

Blanka is no longer a problem.

So whoever you folks decide to listen to is fine, But from my experiences my last tourney and casual sets... wheel kicks punished blocked blanka balls. Ice , if your on PSN later I want get some sets in with you... been thinking of some new abel shit and I wanna try it on a solid opponent haha.

[Severin-X]

I've had the same issue as Busta. Blanka can avoid/block wheel kick after a blocked Blanka Ball. The only thing Abel has that works for me to punish is Ultra. Vertical rolling ball is a differnt story, you can punish that with everything.

I curious though, even if you could punish Blanka ball how is he easy for you? Electricity screws up Abel's wake up/mix up game and Blanka has very good range/damage on his pokes.

[Severin-X]

I tried, but dude was just dominating me completely using the stuff I mentioned:sad:

Thanks though man.

I haven't played a great Bison yet so this is theory fighter to be sure, but cant you bait his s. forward or roundhouse with a focus attack-> dash cancel and punish accordingly?

[ssjtin]

Has anyone tried recording in training mode so that blanka is constantly doing various blanka balls, and trying to consistently beat it out with c. jab or something like that. If it is, it'd def be worth mastering.

"You want chip damage biotch, fuck no, jab jab"

[Severin-X]

Has anyone tried recording in training mode so that blanka is constantly doing various blanka balls, and trying to consistently beat it out with c. jab or something like that. If it is, it'd def be worth mastering.

"You want chip damage biotch, fuck no, jab jab"

c. mp will stuff balls if you are fully extended before he connects. If not it will trade or get beat. For me this only works on reaction if they are more than half screen away throwing out the ball. Anything under half screen either the c. mp doesn't come out fast enough or my reaction is too slow. I have also had luck with jump back mk. Usually hits them right as the roll ends.

[mrAgua]

I've just been reading alot lately but figured I'd come forward and ask my questions/ add my two cents to some stuff I've noticed:

Versus Gen:

I beat most Gens consistently with the exception of a friend of mine.
First general suggestions from my own experience:
Under offensive pressure from Gen, standing m.p beats jump ins, Situational with crossups: Jump back with m.k or early f.p.
Abel should rarely have to jump otherwise against Gen

Now for my dilemma: Gen's Bicycle kick
-stuffs wheel kick
-beats regular rekka
-I mentioned before that based on situation with crossups you can jump back with m.k, well if you're cornered/ stay too close/ get predictable Gen can Bicycle kick you from this as well.
- Bicycle also beats several standing and jumping attacks AFTER startup.

To counter I've started using ex rekka (eats hit then I THINK counterhits) or simply (trying to) bait it and going for cr.hp ultra afterward. TBH I think I'm hoping I'm missing something here because my options feel very limited.

I would double check more stuff but I'm at work right now. Any suggestions?

[The Blu Brawler]

roll under, tornado throw his ass

[mrAgua]

Oh I should have mentioned that. Roll is only invincible on startup (ex roll at least right?). (random info related to the timing of the move)

Anyway usually a rolls just causes him to cr. poke the crap outta me. I've been having a hard time efficiently using the roll against people experienced against abel however so maybe I just need to work on that.

I'm also pretty sure once the kicks start tornado throw whiffs and then I get caught in them anyway. Starfall DEFINITELY gets me caught in them as well.

I don't consider Gen a tough match-up with the exception of this one situation. maybe my timing needs more work and spacing on my rolls.

[Icege]

Messed with it some more.

Busta is right in that Blanka can backdash the MK Wheel Kick. I was able to backdash the reversal, but I got caught a few times mid backdash. That was is it though. Blanka can't punish you afterwards. You can block d/f+hp, c.hk will still whiff, and he doesn't have time to charge a ball.

However, HK Wheel Kick WILL beat backdash. On block I couldn't get slide or c.hk to connect from Blanka afterwards. At the same time, I would beat s.hk with HK Wheel Kick which before would trade with MK. However, you have to make sure you hit the Reversal a.s.a.p. Otherwise Blanka can electricity you (doing it a.s.a.p. stuffs jab Electric).

Frame data says that Blanka is -24 after blocked ball. MK Wheel Kick is 24 start-up while HK Wheel Kick is 27. Both are active for 7f. MK is -9 on block, HK is -10. This is if they hit IMMEDIATELY after start-up. So if you're connecting with it later during the active frames (which you are), Abel is safer (you hit on the 6th active frame of the move, so that's 5 off of the original block adv which was -10 but is now -5 on an HK Wheel Kick). Abel also travels faster during the HK version.

I messed with things a little bit more and I was able to reproduce Blanka walking back to avoid the MK Wheel Kick when the reversal was late (Abel started the move when Blanka was already descending from the blocked ball and the Reversal message still came up). However, everytime I Reversal MK Wheel Kick early (Abel began it when Blanka was ascending after the blocked ball), I could only avoid it by backdashing.

I also played around with dash, f+mk afterwards. Several times (most often when blocked crouching) I would dash in and f+mk would whiff completely.

I'm going to mess with HK Wheel Kick a bit and see if I can punish it with c.hk and slide. I tried it a couple of times but couldn't.

As of now, some choices for blocked Blanka ball are:

1) dash in, f+mk (randomly whiffs)
2) Reversal MK Wheel Kick (Blanka can backdash it (but will still randomly get hit), you are totally safe regardless, build meter and close distance)
3) Reversal HK Wheel Kick (currently looking into what Blanka can do in response)
4) Ultra (works everytime)

[Youkai]

Hmm, I'm wondering if there has been any good matches with Gouken.

I tried setting the diffculty to Hardest in training and fighting Gouken. Although the AI isn't at it's best, it rushes me.

One problem I have encountered though, is the fact that the AI used BOTH Force Attack and Senkugoshoha which seemed annoying when I try to get near him.

Is there any ways to counter Senkugoshoha? It seems pretty annoying, especially when you're MR'ing into him and he moves away extending your distance with him.

Yeah, I'm fairly new using Abel, but this thread and many others help.

Another thing I want to ask (to do with strategies), on Youtube I've been watching MANY tournament videos which has Abel in it, why is it that pro players aren't using the roll as much? I always thought that the different rolls (J, M & F) is Abel's Bread and Butter.

I may as well ask here too, the different Command Throws (J, M & F) do they have differences besides damage? I know that a previous post mentioned that the Falling Sky has different ranges with Jab being the longest range and Fierce being the shortest.

Thank you for your patience:rofl:

[Chanure]

The reason alot of players don't roll as much is because good players can telegraph it and either sweep or throw Abel out of the roll.

[BustaBust]

iceage are you sure they dont have time to blanka ball again? oh wait maybe it depends on the range you are balling from. mess with it please! and thanks for backing me up and really confirming for me :D

[Arkayne17]

The reason alot of players don't roll as much is because good players can telegraph it and either sweep or throw Abel out of the roll.


Well depending on the length of the roll you choose. Ive had people telegraph my roll but whiff a throw because they misclocked the range.

[Icege]

iceage are you sure they dont have time to blanka ball again? oh wait maybe it depends on the range you are balling from. mess with it please! and thanks for backing me up and really confirming for me :D

You just don't have time to charge the ball. He'd have to be able to get the charge during the backdash, which he can't.

The more I mess with HK Wheel Kick, the more it seems like the better option. Problem is that Blanka can beat it out with a couple of different things and score a knockdown if your timing is off. If you can HK Wheel Kick as early as possible on a regular basis, you get back in and he's got nothing he can do to punish you. You are at a disadvantage though, so it kind of reduces to a matter of whether or not he's going to push the advantage. At the same time though, EX Tornado Throw might stop that mighty quick.

Try HK version against the Blanka player you played against. Just make sure you're doing the Wheel Kick as early as possible in the Reversal window.

Safe route imo is to still go with MK Wheel Kick because of how safe you are regardless of what happens. If your execution and timing are good though, HK Wheel Kick is the way to go.

[ZeonTheUnborn]

if you can react to his dash punches punish with ultra. his charge punch/turn punch or w/e that should be the easiest to deal with. either poke him out since it does have a bit of start up (since he turns) with f+mk or st.mp or cr.mk or even sweep his ass or you can just ex command thow.

Problem is that I'm just barely out range, and when the charge punch comes, he starts poking right afterwards.

[bttp9999]

I honestly don't know what the hell is up right now. I've been messing up his BnB's, missing the best times to punished whiffed srks, and I fall for the stupidest tricks like jumping mk -> sweep (I swear I fell for this like 8 times in a row :l). This wasn't the case before, but it's just been happening a whole lot lately. Any general tips to help me regain my momentum?

I also noticed a srk WILL beat Abel's ultra. This has happened to me 3 times so far :l Pretty pissed.

[hfz69]

I also noticed a srk WILL beat Abel's ultra. This has happened to me 3 times so far :l Pretty pissed.

lol thats why you only ultra from a cr.hp or through fireballs

[bttp9999]

I generally try and do that, but if I have an ultra and they whiff an srk, I try and land it too.

[Bomberman3000]

Alright pro-Abel players.

I'm about to go over to a friend's place, and one of them f00s has an angry Akuma up his sleeve (plays proper-rush down style, too...like it's 3rd strike or something).

So tell me this...do I play the match as if it's vs. Ryu or do I try for something else to whack em out of his potential set-ups?

[The Blu Brawler]

Hmm, I'm wondering if there has been any good matches with Gouken.

I tried setting the diffculty to Hardest in training and fighting Gouken. Although the AI isn't at it's best, it rushes me.

One problem I have encountered though, is the fact that the AI used BOTH Force Attack and Senkugoshoha which seemed annoying when I try to get near him.

Is there any ways to counter Senkugoshoha? It seems pretty annoying, especially when you're MR'ing into him and he moves away extending your distance with him.

Yeah, I'm fairly new using Abel, but this thread and many others help.

Another thing I want to ask (to do with strategies), on Youtube I've been watching MANY tournament videos which has Abel in it, why is it that pro players aren't using the roll as much? I always thought that the different rolls (J, M & F) is Abel's Bread and Butter.
I may as well ask here too, the different Command Throws (J, M & F) do they have differences besides damage? I know that a previous post mentioned that the Falling Sky has different ranges with Jab being the longest range and Fierce being the shortest.

Thank you for your patience:rofl:


1: I find rolling useful for dodging fireballs/shorukens, and mixing my close combat. (Like in a combo, lp,lp,cr.mp,cr.lk,cr.lk,roll, rekka xx cr.hp, fallin sky/ultra/super (if ya quick enough, you can connect it on 2nd hit)

2: Ye the Tornado throw has the longest/weakest range with the jab/light punch. Strongest/shortest range with fierce/heavy punch. IMO always do the jab command throw just to make sure you get them.

[The Blu Brawler]

Alright pro-Abel players.

I'm about to go over to a friend's place, and one of them f00s has an angry Akuma up his sleeve (plays proper-rush down style, too...like it's 3rd strike or something).

So tell me this...do I play the match as if it's vs. Ryu or do I try for something else to whack em out of his potential set-ups?

Im no pro, but I usually just think that it is Ryu/Ken and whoop their ass online, but the one thing to watch out for IMO is his fireball in the air.

[BustaBust]

Problem is that I'm just barely out range, and when the charge punch comes, he starts poking right afterwards.

well he cant combo charge punches with the pokes afterwards unless it was a counter hit. so ex command throw still.

[Little England]

Maybe you guys already know this but...

I was playing CPU Abel today as Zangief and I did my Ultra RIGHT in front of him, and he tornado threw me OUT OF THE ULTRA! haha I dunno if it matters but it WASN'T his EX tornado throw.

Edit: wtf...Fei Long did the same thing except with Rekkas =/

[Icege]

So uh... yea... remember how we were trying to figure out what to do vs. Blanka ball? First it was dash and f+mk, but that would whiff randomly or just get beat, then it was MK Wheel Kick but they could backdash it, then it was HK Wheel Kick but all you'd get is some chip damage, and the only thing guaranteed was Ultra?

...

dash, far s.lk is guaranteed too

*facepalm*

Oi, I feel dumb

[hfz69]

Maybe you guys already know this but...

I was playing CPU Abel today as Zangief and I did my Ultra RIGHT in front of him, and he tornado threw me OUT OF THE ULTRA! haha I dunno if it matters but it WASN'T his EX tornado throw.

Edit: wtf...Fei Long did the same thing except with Rekkas =/

i think ive read somewhere that tornado throw does beat gief's ultra but the timing is tricky. mastering that can be a nice tool against gief hehe.

[hfz69]

So uh... yea... remember how we were trying to figure out what to do vs. Blanka ball? First it was dash and f+mk, but that would whiff randomly or just get beat, then it was MK Wheel Kick but they could backdash it, then it was HK Wheel Kick but all you'd get is some chip damage, and the only thing guaranteed was Ultra?

...

dash, far s.lk is guaranteed too



For me, cr.MP does the job well enough.

[BustaBust]

i think ive read somewhere that tornado throw does beat gief's ultra but the timing is tricky. mastering that can be a nice tool against gief hehe.

its not tricky at all, just gotta input the command throw before he does ultra. the best is against noob zangiefs at least hah but on their wake up if they have ultra they most likely will try to ultra so BAM command throw haha.

[hfz69]

its not tricky at all, just gotta input the command throw before he does ultra. the best is against noob zangiefs at least hah but on their wake up if they have ultra they most likely will try to ultra so BAM command throw haha.

ooh nice. im so gonna do this. ive beaten few zangiefs yday at a tourney, though i played the boring game of staying the hell away and sean kicking, jump RH all day :D

[Arkayne17]

its not tricky at all, just gotta input the command throw before he does ultra. the best is against noob zangiefs at least hah but on their wake up if they have ultra they most likely will try to ultra so BAM command throw haha.


Yeah I use that alot with people online then I get hate mail... " you fucking cheater you grabbed me out of my ultra"..

: )

[ssjtin]

Ok was just mucking around in training mode with record and tested some stuff vs Blanka.

For Blanka ball you can

- crouch or standing jab, this resets Blanka within dash range, and you can do whatever dash throw, or wait and dash kick (thats what i'll call it) Problem is its so quick that do it too early and you'll whiff and eat damage, too late and you'll trade and eat damage. Cr. jab is probably better because it's in line with the centre of the ball so the hitbox line may be better.
Pros - quick enough that you can do on reaction even at half screen away
end within range of dash kick
Cons - does almost no damage

. crouch or standing strong
Pros - does a good chunk of damage that opponent will think twice after getting hit by a couple
Cons - long start up means that any closer than half - 3/4 screen means you will probably eat a trade, you need to do it so that the active frames are out by the time blanka touches your fist
- you end out of dash kick range, and if you dash and regular throw you will whiff if he's crouching, which he most definitely will be, however you will be in dash tornado range

So far the only guaranteed punish seems to be ultra, here are some hit and miss options on block.

~ dash forward st. lk, does almost no damage, but more than the chip you receive, works against all 4 strengths, timing seems to be easiest on the fierce and EX versions. If you're too late it will whiff but get the timing right, and it should always work.

~ rekka, whiff the first hit and use the second as a high low mixup. It seems he is too far to jab you out of it, but you will often lose to electricity and probably other stuff so this is a once in a while move.

~ medium flip kick, only used as a surprise move if they're used to blockign down back, they can easily block high.

That's all for now.