Troubles VS...

[.rukIZM]

not sure, but lately i've been feeling confident using Dictator, except going against the following:

Blanka

and

E. Honda

i'm not much into looking up what moves beat out which, but when i play against a good Blanka or E. Honda i have trouble by moving as a whole, whether it be getting out of a corner, sticking to my DR/HP game to try and bait, or not being able to do much to fight back..


any help/tips is appreciated.

also, do you all run into the same trouble or are there additional characters? feel free to add on..

[lawyuklun]

Against Blanka, play in a defensive way is better. Wait for it to roll, block that and punish him by using scissor kick.
For honda, I use skull dives and than mix with headstomp, if it blocks, throw it.

[Wolfy2032]

Im actually having a problem vs a rose player she uses the mk slide twice into a throw and i cant ever seem to tech it. The attack is pretty instant and has nice range. Cant head stomp because she moves while using the slide and even if i do jump up her jumping hk beats both head stomp and Reversal. I really have no idea what to do.

[yah yaahh b*tch!]

Im having trouble vs cammy. GAWD DAYUM this bitch.

Cannon drill is low (and so fast) and its fucking me up when he jumps in because im so scared of getting knocked down. So I eventually get pushed in a corner. Bisons j.HP is useless against her j.HK

And can I do anything to punish a blocked cannon drill aside from cr.lk? The guy I was playing had a tendency to EX cannon spike after a blocked drill.


he was really shitty, but since I dont know what im doing in 2d hes basically whooping my ass. He jumps a LOT and whores the drill and spike, there has to be a way to punish his mistakes, I just dont know how. If I could just lock him up I would be good.

[Sanchez]

Geez, is Cammy that bad of a match up? I'll play against her this week and see what I can find.

Some ideas--
-Which of her moves break armor/hit twice? Is it just her Spinfist that has natural armor break? If so why not focus the drill or after blocking a drill. If she Cannon Spikes you take the hit and dash in to smack her.
-Drills can't be safe always. More than certain cr.LK x Scissors should punish nicely.
-Learn what you're doing.

[Rioting Soul]

Im having trouble vs cammy. GAWD DAYUM this bitch.

Cannon drill is low (and so fast) and its fucking me up when he jumps in because im so scared of getting knocked down. So I eventually get pushed in a corner. Bisons j.HP is useless against her j.HK

And can I do anything to punish a blocked cannon drill aside from cr.lk? The guy I was playing had a tendency to EX cannon spike after a blocked drill.


he was really shitty, but since I dont know what im doing in 2d hes basically whooping my ass. He jumps a LOT and whores the drill and spike, there has to be a way to punish his mistakes, I just dont know how. If I could just lock him up I would be good.

I don't think j.HP should be being used as air-to-air. J.HK, j.MP and EX Stomp seem better for that job.

Cannon Drill is punishable by Knee Press. If he jumps in then use standing HK(might get stuffed if they are too close). Also use st.HK against Hooligan if you don't have ultra.

[yah yaahh b*tch!]

Cammys j.HK has some crazy range. Bisons j.MP is too short trust me i tried. Im going to see how s.HK works as an AA. I really cant keep him out my face.

He goes for j.HK cr.HK ALL DAY. Its like he has QCF+K and DP+K on autofire.

I cant seem to get a real charge series going because the fucker jumps around SO MUCH its ridiculous.


So youre saying an EX stomp will shut all his shit down? I literally lost everytime against that cammy.

[yah yaahh b*tch!]

Geez, is Cammy that bad of a match up? I'll play against her this week and see what I can find.

Some ideas--
-Which of her moves break armor/hit twice? Is it just her Spinfist that has natural armor break? If so why not focus the drill or after blocking a drill. If she Cannon Spikes you take the hit and dash in to smack her.
-Drills can't be safe always. More than certain cr.LK x Scissors should punish nicely.
-Learn what you're doing.


Yeah im trying to "learn" how to play 2d by losing. And I know why im losing, I just cant put it into to perspective. I know combos n shit but practice mode is only going to take me but so far.


I believe spinfist has natural armor break but he never does that. He doesnt do much of anything except play a 1 2 cammy. As soon as dude gets one stock he blows it on the EX drill or spike. I already attempted to FA after his blocked drill but like clockwork he goes for the EX and im pretty sure all the times I tried to punish blocked drill with EX scissors I got hit with EX spike.

Its pointless for me to play a mindgame against someone who doesnt know the game. Its like I try to teach his Satura to stop throwing fireballs at bison when I keep EX stomping, but he doesnt. Sakura doesnt have Cammy's priority so I can lock his shit down no problem. I dont wanna be a bitch and Dhalsim s.HK j.HP his ass but he just wont stay on the fucking ground. Reminds me of when I first started playing fighters at 7 and I thought the regular attacks were useless.

[Rioting Soul]

So youre saying an EX stomp will shut all his shit down? I literally lost everytime against that cammy.

Yeah. I've never seen a forward jumping attack stuff EX Stomp and the damage dealt will have them thinking about jumping less(especially if it is the killing move).

But be wary. My Theory Fighter senses tell me that a Cammy can do dive kick to make your stomp whiff then punish you(but the guy you're talking about doesn't sound that clever).

[yah yaahh b*tch!]

Hes not.

And is cr.Mk unsafe? I tried to cr.LP cr.LK cr.LK xx scissor but I got smacked out of it almost everytime. I suck in this game in general but I think Cammy has some really good priority.

And lets not get started on the active frames of roundhouse cannon spike. You can still get hit as shes coming back down from the peak. Jesus christ.

[Rioting Soul]

And is cr.Mk unsafe?

It is -1 on block so if a character has an attack that hits on the first frame then yes. Reversal Cannon Spike?

[renvi]

the only trouble i have is zangief, he's a bitch, nothing more.

[cky24]

the only trouble i have is zangief, he's a bitch, nothing more.

Yep I have problems with gief too. Blanka is a pain as well. I try to lure them out and punish with crusher or scissors.

[Valaris]

My two biggest problems right now seem shared by the community; Cammy and Gief.

[Dizlord]

Blanka isn't too bad if you know how to play defensivley vs his rushdown. Ball can be punished with scissors elec can be stuff with c.mk, just play a defensive style and keep away from crossups, don't use Headstomp too much since it gets beat by elec aswell.

I played vs a good Cammy yesterday and she can pressure you pretty good, but divekicks are usually punishable with Jabs, drill is not save on block atleast at the wrong distance so c.lk scissors should do to punish that. Hooligan and knuckle can be stuffed with s.HK.

Against Gief...I have no possible answer to that right now, Lariat beats about everything bison can do. Bison has no answer to that.

[ARK27]

Long time Bison player here since SF2 Champion Edition. I played a good Gief and Cammy this past weekend. The first round with Gief I was able to pull out a win by using teleport. First I spammed Devils Reverse and a head stomp. Then I would go in for a j.hk and teleport out. Teleport again and get some crouching m.k in followed by a scissor and teleport out again. Second round and third round didn't go as planned though. He did only get one piledriver on me though. :wgrin: I think the key is to hit and run and catch him off guard.

The match with Cammy was excellent. I lost in the end but every round was down to the wire. Spam devils reverse again, head stomp, etc. I teleported to get out of situations and teleported to keep her off guard. Cammy always has been a problem for Bison.

[Tendersauce]

For Geif matchup this is pretty funny.

He can SPD you out of scissors and scissors part of ultra, CPU pulled that shit yesterday.

[Wolfy2032]

For Cammy all her stuff is very risky head stomp >>> cannon spike for drill im pretty sure you can punish it with the slide or knee press. Also reverse baiting works nice and just back dashing or jumping out of drills range.

[Valaris]

I just saw something in a few videos. How safe is the slide against a lariat?

[ARK27]

Slide beats Lariat and always has.

[FatalDmg]

As far as I know, it all depends on when you slide, because when I slid into one of giefs lariat's, i got hit with it...

Also, I'm trying to avoid using teleport a lot.. Only for getting out of tight corners is about it.. Got this advice from T3R_Dictator.

[Inverse]

I can confirm issues with Honda. Mainly because Honda is a rock. If played defensively, be prepared for a hard fight.

You can tell it's going to be an issue if the Honda player is not afraid to wait out the clock. He is prepared to punish you, counter your throw attempts and rip you apart. Honda has issues against Fireball characters. Which Bison is not.

He's more than willing to spit and grin at you while you try to break his defenses.

That said, Blanka players have a bit more offense. EX Headstomp can own him a bit better. A defensive Blanka though can be nearly as bad as Honda. Thankfully, Blanka players seem to enjoy a more offensive pace.

Cammy is rough, I have to agree. She's going to be popular in the next few months. I can see it.

Gief's Lariat is weird. Slide can counter it, but only if it hits in the frame where his arms are not "coming toward you". It can be outstretched and still hit, but will trade if you time it wrong (and hurt a lot, scoring a knockdown for both of you and resetting positions. Advantage 'Gief)

He better not see it coming and focus cancel to Green Hand >> SPD or you'll be having a bad day too. :(

EX Headstomp works well for me vs Lariat however.

[.rukIZM]

thanks all

[Sanchez]

A lot of these questions have been answered randomly in other threads. If you stake a step back and look at this subforum you'll see it's a dump!

I'll write some things up about the Gief match today and post them tonight. I'mma also look into organizing a lot of the info we have already.

[ARK27]

Wow, I didn't realize that. I've always used the slide for Giefs Lariat and never gotten hit. Maybe you have to be at a slight distance in order for the slide to work. I also did a standing medium kick to a Gief's Lariat.

[skongi]

devils reverse works good against zangief.

[VRViperII]

devils reverse works good against zangief.


Actually I would hardly use DR on zangief. Your best weapon against him is s.HK, and using even one DR is giving him so much time to dash in to close distance. Try to hit a decent zangief with DR and you'll eat a SADC combo.

[Ephemeral]

i use dr too. it beats lariats. exdr is good to reset distance too

[Rioting Soul]

DR works against Zangief right now. Later, I doubt it. Lariat beats Stomp or Zangief could just walk back to make it whiff then 360/combo. So with stomp being such a bad idea(Zangief doesn't have to anticipate anything here, just wait for Bison to come down then act), DR won't be stuffing any early Lariats. DR will be getting stuffed by late Lariats or thrown/comboed on whiff.

[MaxVandalism315]

im having trouble vs. blanka myself, i keep getting grabbed during the rushdown :(

[lolwut]

Having troubles with vega (who'd have thought)

Any tips..i'm getting eaten alive some rounds. Gief is also a bastard

[Sly ShinaniganS]

Also just to let u guys know

3K Lariat > Slide duh:looney:
3P Lariat > Slide wtf?:wonder:

After I stomped a good gief saw it commin and did 3P
so later in the match i did DR and he fell for it, i didn't hit em with DR so i did C.HK and i got hit with Lariat :annoy:

So i did DR again and gief few for it again and i did Scissors and guess wha... thats right people

3P Lariat > Scissors

So my question is this...

PC>3P Lariat

That has to be true right? if it's not i dont want to waste EX's just to punish him for his mistakes

[Sly ShinaniganS]

i find vega pretty ez...
Stomp Stomp Stomp
when i stomp i like to yell STOMP EM IN THE NUTS for more dramatic effect but u can say what ever u like...
Aerial game is all ur's Spam Jumping back MP and time it so that when ur jumping ur attack through out the full jump, This will my it hard for Izuma drop
Add a few Focus attacks and your all done, after that tell vega to go back to his post before he makes balrog a higher rank

[DS]

Against Gief, you don't do special moves outside of Devil Reverse and Stomp. And you have to be at good distance to get those in free. If Gief is near you, you are dead.

[defcon]

im having issues with honda and blanka as well.

yea turtle honda is mad gay to play against. you can focus buttsplash on its way down though for lvl 2 FA, dash in close s.fp, rh scissors to punish dat ass. you also have to be careful with devil's reversing as honda can fullscreen (ex) headbutt or ultra if you do it randomly.

against blanka, i'm doing much better now that i've figured out some counters to his ultra, especially random ultra. punish it on block with your own ultra, and if he holds the ball to try to screw up your timing, you can also ultra that. also, i'm not positive on this, but if they're trying to chip you to death at the end of a round, it might be possible to ultra inbetween when blanka's ultra hits you high and when it hits you low, e.g. block high, ultra on his way down.

blanka's normals seem to fuck me up though. slide and c.rh seem to crush my attempts to s.fwd or s.rh poke, and they clearly outrange c.jab/short/fwd. i have problems anti-airing blanka correctly as well, probably because he mostly crosses me up and i can't really stop it, just escape by teleporting. also whiffed jab ball into throw owns me ridiculously. i can't tech the throw even though i know it's coming, can't mash short against it, i just get thrown for free, it sucks.

[AcryiLLic]

I have a hard time against scrubby and good guile players I always seem to get caught in spam flash kick or the hk trip on the middle of scissor kick. Please help I cannot keep losing bp against guiles.

[MaxVandalism315]

i am a little emberrased to say this but im having trouble vs ken :(
when he jumps in with hk on me i try to counter with s.hk, but either we exchange hits or he beats out my hk and follows with c.hk.
what u guys recommend i should do? improve timing? block?

[DS]

Back dash against it to build space. You'll be at max range distance for s.roundhouse for a punish against a fireball attempt or a towards+forward.

[Sanchez]

This'll be terse since SRK crashes every few minutes--

DR is good versus Gief. Beats Lariat. But loses to focus attack. EX DR beats focus attack. Build meter pretty much worry free. If you antagonize him too much with it he CAN EX Green Hand your ass for trying to hit him so pick your shots.

Lariat will beat Pyscho Crusher(EX included) consistently unless you're doing it to punish the recovery. Even then I wouldn't recommend it over Scissor kick. Remember not to even TRY to fuck with the Lariat unless he's on the 3rd spin of the PPP or the 2nd of the KKK.

Stomps are good at the right ranges since you land on Gief's head and they let you reset the distance between you two. If he's inside your RH range you've done fucked up.

[VRViperII]

How are you guys using DR? I don't see how it's a good move against zangief other than EX-DR out of a knock down. After you use DR, what will you do if Zangief starts dashing towards you? If you try to hit him, he will SA. If you fly away, he will keep dashing in and you will be cornered soon.

[Sanchez]

Gief's dash fucking sucks.

[Valaris]

Probably a really stupid question but how can you tell which lariat Gief is doing?

[renvi]

How are you guys using DR? I don't see how it's a good move against zangief other than EX-DR out of a knock down. After you use DR, what will you do if Zangief starts dashing towards you? If you try to hit him, he will SA. If you fly away, he will keep dashing in and you will be cornered soon.

what strategy/strategies do you suggest?

[Sanchez]

Probably a really stupid question but how can you tell which lariat Gief is doing?

He makes different grunts on start up for each Lariat.

[DS]

How are you guys using DR? I don't see how it's a good move against zangief other than EX-DR out of a knock down. After you use DR, what will you do if Zangief starts dashing towards you? If you try to hit him, he will SA. If you fly away, he will keep dashing in and you will be cornered soon.

It hits him on the head and you get free knockdown. After that, you go back to your full screen distance and that's that. If he wants to keep spamming lariat for meter then he'll eat another one. It's not that hard and it's a good move versus Gief.

If Gief starts dashing, he starts eating s.roundhouse. If he tries to FA, you throw him and DR the fuck out of there.

[garcian]

What do you guys do against a Gief that scores a knockdown, then sits on you ready to SPD you as you get up? Also, same question against Shotos who DP you as you're getting up. I'm a n00b Bison player & struggling a bit.

[renvi]

for zangief:
EX headstomp or EX devil reverse.
if you super guage is empty but your revenge meter is over 50% then try to use UC you might have a chance hitting your oponent. if they block it, then your fucked.
if both meters are empty, you are shit out of luck. try anything... teleport (with PPP if you are in the corner), throw, jumping out, etc. if you do make it in the air, don't forget to press MP

for shotos, it's easy. just block then punish em with whatever combo you can pull out.

[garcian]

Thanks man, appreciated - more practice needed :)

[Thefuture]

What strats do you guys have for Rog? He is eating me alive at times. I'm just completely confused with his mixup situation.

[FrAnkDAdAnk]

What strats do you guys have for Rog? He is eating me alive at times. I'm just completely confused with his mixup situation.

don't try to interupt his strings, even after a blocked headbutt or dash punch. I found out the hard way that rog's ducking jab will beat out all of bison's pokes.

Be sure to look out for which punches he's going for, and remember that the EX overhead punch you should be able to throw him before it goes off (EX only). Try to keep your distance from him at the beginning and if they try to go for a dash punch roundhouse them in the face.

[Ultima]

Anyone run into El Fuerte mixups yet? His splash has a bizarre hitbox that seems to hit way earlier than it looks. Between that, throws and slides, I'm at a bit of a loss. I get the feeling I shouldn't be losing to this gimmicky crap, and it's probably just my inexperience, but it's really annoying right now.

Also, what's the deal with Cammy? I fought against 6 Cammys yesterday, almost as many as the Kens and Akumas I fought. Since when are people playing Cammy? I actually lost to one, but that was because I didn't clamp down and punish her ass enough and kept running into shit. Everything she has is unsafe and rife for Scissors Kick punishment. The only thing that's retarded is that you can't attack after headstomp because her Canon Spike goes like 3 stories high.

[yah yaahh b*tch!]

I dont know what to tell you bro. Cammy definitely gives Bison a fight.


The other day I played a Cammy, tried to punish a blocked drill with an EX scissor, and got rocked with her EX spike.

I. FUCKING. SCREAMED.

[DS]

Cammy doesn't give Bison a fight. You pretty much just wait her out because all of her moves are ridiculously slow. Cannon Spike is all she has really. And it's pretty obvious you can't use regular headstomp against it. You have to use EX.

[cyclops4ever]

what about that darn ehonda?....how do i? what do i?
ahhh!!!!

[yah yaahh b*tch!]

Cammy doesn't give Bison a fight. You pretty much just wait her out because all of her moves are ridiculously slow. Cannon Spike is all she has really. And it's pretty obvious you can't use regular headstomp against it. You have to use EX.

How am I going to punish excessive jumping with s.HK when I need to build meter/charge to EX stomp?

Throw in some annoying cannon drills and Cammy is a big fat bitch.:wonder:

[DS]

How am I going to punish excessive jumping with s.HK when I need to build meter/charge to EX stomp?

Throw in some annoying cannon drills and Cammy is a big fat bitch.:wonder:

You build meter as you hit the bitch. What's so hard about that? Cannon drill is not safe on block either. You get free low forward xx scissors punish. Only thing you have to worry about is cannon spike since it travels high up in the air. Her spin knuckle is garbage and her hooligan is even more garbage. All you have to watch out for is random ultra since it has quick start up and hits low.

This isn't a hard matchup for Bison. You're just playing the match wrong.

[ARK27]

You build meter as you hit the bitch. What's so hard about that? Cannon drill is not safe on block either. You get free low forward xx scissors punish. Only thing you have to worry about is cannon spike since it travels high up in the air. Her spin knuckle is garbage and her hooligan is even more garbage. All you have to watch out for is random ultra since it has quick start up and hits low.

This isn't a hard matchup for Bison. You're just playing the match wrong.

So how do you suggest playing her then? You jump-in and you get cannon spike'd. You scissor kick and you get drill'd. You hit her she blocks and punishes you. My favorite is playing the Cammy's that are on speed and they just start the jump-in as soon as the match starts - heavy kicks, take downs, drills and spikes. You never even get a chance to get your mind games working.

[DS]

You sit on her. That's it. What is she gonna do that out prioritizes any of your moves? Random Ultra? Cause that's all she has. Cannon drill isn't exactly safe. EX is, but not regular. She can't punish a LK scissors.

[Dizlord]

So how do you suggest playing her then? You jump-in and you get cannon spike'd. You scissor kick and you get drill'd. You hit her she blocks and punishes you. My favorite is playing the Cammy's that are on speed and they just start the jump-in as soon as the match starts - heavy kicks, take downs, drills and spikes. You never even get a chance to get your mind games working.

You seem to play this matchup wrong it seems, she has spike that does about the same thing os a DP/Tiger Uppercut, so why in the blue sky would jump in on her unless you know hat you won't get hit ?

Hearing complaints about drill kinda irritates me, just because it beats some stuff doesen't really mean that it's the perfect move whatsoever, you can punish her for free with c.lk SK right after you block it.

spinning knuckle and Hooligan...don't make me laugh a well placed s. HK beats the shit out of that.

Dive kick gets beat by PC IIRC, but i certainly know it gets beat by EX PC.

I can't seem to see the "bad matchup" here or the trouble at all.

[thisbjon]

Is there anything good to do against a good c.viper? This match up is like 50/50 to me. I do DRs and headstomps only to eat a superjump flame kick. I do like ex torpedo and gets stuffed or trade by an elec punch. Sometimes go for scissor kick but then sorta stuck in block. I do some cross ups if safe but sometimes are blocked. For now all I do is just mix in DR and Headstomps. If he sorta thinks im gonna go for either, I go for torpedo to catch off guard and thats all I basically do. Sometimes i win sometime I dont. Is there something else I can do to make this match more in my favor?

[DS]

Your normals are better than hers. Primarily s.roundhouse.

[Sex Instructor]

I've got one, so far the only up hill battle for me. Guile, I feel completly zoned out by his sonic boom barage DR and HeadStomp gets air thrown or they step back. So far it seems my ONLY option is to get in as close as possible and rush his shit down and watch for random flash kicks (which I almost always eat) is this the WRONG strat?

[FrAnkDAdAnk]

So how do you suggest playing her then? You jump-in and you get cannon spike'd. You scissor kick and you get drill'd. You hit her she blocks and punishes you. My favorite is playing the Cammy's that are on speed and they just start the jump-in as soon as the match starts - heavy kicks, take downs, drills and spikes. You never even get a chance to get your mind games working.

Sounds like you're being over agressive, you have to let Cammy try to come at you. With her spin knuckle and hooligan flip you got more than enough time to hit her with a standing roundhouse before she can connect. If she tries to come in with a dive kick and you block it early? (I don't even know if that's the right term here, but pretty much if you block it standing and it hits you in the chest or shoulders) you can grab her after that. Cannon drills you just block and punish with low forward scissor kicks. Like DS said you just have to be cautious about her ultra cause it is fast and hits low and can do a lot of damage. Bait out cannon spikes with DR's, and when you have meter use EX headstomps when you score a knockdown, she can't do anything about it.

[FrAnkDAdAnk]

Is there anything good to do against a good c.viper? This match up is like 50/50 to me. I do DRs and headstomps only to eat a superjump flame kick. I do like ex torpedo and gets stuffed or trade by an elec punch. Sometimes go for scissor kick but then sorta stuck in block. I do some cross ups if safe but sometimes are blocked. For now all I do is just mix in DR and Headstomps. If he sorta thinks im gonna go for either, I go for torpedo to catch off guard and thats all I basically do. Sometimes i win sometime I dont. Is there something else I can do to make this match more in my favor?

I think I posted this in another thread.

In this fight i rarely use headstomp or DR's. I try to not go to the air cause she has her jumping roundhouse as well as a fierce thunder knuckle to stop you.

One big thing to remember is when she goes into flame kick cross up's all you need to do is FA to avoid getting knocked down, also is she tries to do flame kicks on the ground just down fierce her it will beat it everytime.

When you have EX meter and an Ultra she can't do anything to you if you're full screen away. She tries to come crazy with a super jump flame kick, you ultra. Her normal ground pounds won't hit you cause you're out of range, and I'm pretty positive if she does her EX seismo's you can EX psycho crusher her and you'll hit her before she recovers, if she's trying to bait you into doing something with fake siesmo's, just wait till you hear her yell that's the only time that she will actually go into the move.

Just remember to Focus Attack to stop the flame kick cross ups, and down fierce any flame kicks from the ground and you should be fine.

[Doc Holliday]

My two biggest problems right now seem shared by the community; Cammy and Gief.

Likewise. Cammy and Gief for me too. With Gief, I'll screw him up with all the BS DR/HS I throw at him but as soon as you get within a few feet of him you're eating SPD, meaning if one of those two are blocked, I'm going for a ride. Fuck Gief is a bastard in this game. I thought they nerfed him?! I hate to see what he was like in the earlier versions of the game.

Cammy has an answer for all my arial acrobatics with her damn cannon spike. I swear to God she has NO recovery for cannon spike/cannon drill.

[DS]

Gief wasn't nerfed for console. There are no changes at all. What you see on console is what was in the arcade version(sans console chars of course).

[Doc Holliday]

Gief wasn't nerfed for console. There are no changes at all. What you see on console is what was in the arcade version(sans console chars of course).

Copy that but I could've sworn that the early versions of Gief in the arcade were ridiculous. I never had the pleasure of playing Gief for the first versions (unless he's never been changed, and I thought he had). If that's the case, he's still a fuck and I just need to keep playing keep away.

[yah yaahh b*tch!]

Um . .im in training right now..

EX stomp does not beat out cannon spike lol. Not even LK. I dunno WHAT you were talking about DS. Unless you mean the starting frames, or you land DIRECTLY on her head, the kick will always beat out the stomp. Once she takes off its all on her. You might clash, but even then Cammy still wins.


Which is strange, because its a single hit, and the EX doesnt eat the hit. Pure foolishness. So your best bet to punish a whiffed spike is s.HK, you cant even chase her in the air with j.MP>j.MP because the active hit frames are so damn huge you can still get hit hopping up there to get her.

Cammy nerf please!

[ARK27]

The Cammy's I've played so far have never used the backfist move. Hard to punish that move if they never do it. At the beginning of the match I will go for a DR and get eaten on the way up with a Cannon Spike or a jumping kick. Immediately I go into defensive and I get thrown after blocking. I try to retaliate with a Sk it gets blocked and I get hit more. I finally get out of the corner to play mind games and she comes after me again. Wait for her drill, block and she blocks my SK. The Cammy's that are patient I have a chance with. The Cammy's that are 100% offensive I lose in two quick rounds.

In HDRemix its a different story. I can cross her up all day c.lk and Sk and the match is over. Not the same story in SF4.

[Dizlord]

Um . .im in training right now..

EX stomp does not beat out cannon spike lol. Not even LK. I dunno WHAT you were talking about DS. Unless you mean the starting frames, or you land DIRECTLY on her head, the kick will always beat out the stomp. Once she takes off its all on her. You might clash, but even then Cammy still wins.


Which is strange, because its a single hit, and the EX doesnt eat the hit. Pure foolishness. So your best bet to punish a whiffed spike is s.HK, you cant even chase her in the air with j.MP>j.MP because the active hit frames are so damn huge you can still get hit hopping up there to get her.

Cammy nerf please!

You wanna nerf a character that already has the limits of a "never better than low tier" in this game? Seriously playing the matchup wrong isn't a shout out for a nerf, god dammit, why in the blue sky do you have so much trouble with Cammy?

It's probably her not saveness on block, her moves that can be punished on block, her supreme EX Hooligan...oh wait, that's shit aswell.

Hmm okay i got it now, you just don't know the matchup? Yes that sounds about right, while DS has said it all already just, you know, don't rush in on her all day.


The Cammy's I've played so far have never used the backfist move. Hard to punish that move if they never do it. At the beginning of the match I will go for a DR and get eaten on the way up with a Cannon Spike or a jumping kick. Immediately I go into defensive and I get thrown after blocking. I try to retaliate with a Sk it gets blocked and I get hit more. I finally get out of the corner to play mind games and she comes after me again. Wait for her drill, block and she blocks my SK. The Cammy's that are patient I have a chance with. The Cammy's that are 100% offensive I lose in two quick rounds.

In HDRemix its a different story. I can cross her up all day c.lk and Sk and the match is over. Not the same story in SF4.

Again what is wrong with you people loving to do DR on her so much ? a Solid block or back dash might do the trick, you're beeing too stuck on one strategy that DR is the universal move that beats the crap out of everything, if you KNOW Spike will kick you in the Nuts if you do a DR why do you do it then?

I fail to see the logic here, you just gotta be more defensive vs cammy and you're good, because a decent cammy player knows that he/she has to come at you to have a chance, pressure you, as soon as you realize that, the matchup gets so much easier.

[FatalDmg]

SMH at these dudes that struggle with Cammy.. Like seriously the advice given to you works 100% but if you won't listen and practice hard enough then what's the point?

You gotta play zoning with bison vs cammy..Cammy is more of a rush down character and will do anything to crush you..So better to wait until she makes a foolish move and stomp that bitch.

Anyway, Cammy is the least of my troubles, I seem to have a bit of a hard time with Fuerte only because his mixup game is pretty solid. Any suggestions vs fuerte players?

[ARK27]

Again what is wrong with you people loving to do DR on her so much ? a Solid block or back dash might do the trick, you're beeing too stuck on one strategy that DR is the universal move that beats the crap out of everything, if you KNOW Spike will kick you in the Nuts if you do a DR why do you do it then?

I fail to see the logic here, you just gotta be more defensive vs cammy and you're good, because a decent cammy player knows that he/she has to come at you to have a chance, pressure you, as soon as you realize that, the matchup gets so much easier.

I will sometimes spam a DR on my opponent and follow it up with a stomp. It's all part of keeping the opponent guessing. I never said DR was the end all solution to beat everything. Don't put words in my mouth. My point was everything I could do, my opponent playing as Cammy had an answer. The character is only as good as the opponent playing them.

As far as Fuerte goes Sk him when he starts that run crap. I've never had a problem with him.

[FatalDmg]

Its not so much his running that gives me difficulty..Its his body splash attack that throws me off.

[ARK27]

Just dont give him the chance to use the body splash. Keep your charge so when he starts running do a heavy SK and take him out. Don't let him get near you. Try a neutral jump into a combo as well.

[FatalDmg]

will do. Ill take care of that after i come home from work..

[DS]

Um . .im in training right now..

EX stomp does not beat out cannon spike lol. Not even LK. I dunno WHAT you were talking about DS. Unless you mean the starting frames, or you land DIRECTLY on her head, the kick will always beat out the stomp. Once she takes off its all on her. You might clash, but even then Cammy still wins.


Which is strange, because its a single hit, and the EX doesnt eat the hit. Pure foolishness. So your best bet to punish a whiffed spike is s.HK, you cant even chase her in the air with j.MP>j.MP because the active hit frames are so damn huge you can still get hit hopping up there to get her.

Cammy nerf please!

You know, you can stop sucking. That works pretty well, too. I never said to EX headstomp the bitch dead. I said your normals are WAY better than hers. Wanna know something else? Fei Long's flame kick beats EX headstomp, too. You should actually try playing the game a bit more than trying to accuse me of saying some false shit.

Bison's ground game is infinitely better than hers. She has NOTHING outside of Cannon Spike. If you're getting raped by day 2 Cammy, then maybe SF4 isn't the game for you.

[Ultima]

re: Cammy

Yes, I'd say if you're losing to Cammy, you need to get more skillful.

Sex Instructor: Re: Guile

My standard Guile strategy: Get within half a screen and wait for him to throw a Sonic Boom, then jump at him with j.HK, s.MK, and either poke him with s.MK, pressure him with Scissors, and/or bait Flash Kicks and punish with Scissors. If he does Sonic Boom up close, EX Scissors through. Once he's knocked down, go for cross ups. You can also Stomp him from full screen to counter booms, but don't ever stomp, jump or Devil Reverse naked.


re: Fuerte

I have to say this is the one matchup that has me completely confused at the moment. I kinda have an idea what to do against other characters, even if I'm not good at it or if I'm at a disadvantage, but I have zero idea what to do against Fuerte. That splash has a weird hitbox and hits way earlier than it looks, and he's so fast that I can't tell when he's going for overhead splash or throw. If I had a stick I'd just teleport out of the way more, but that still doesn't get me a way to damage him. Jumping at him is also not good with his anti-air throw, which is actually a lot better than I thought.

It seems to be all shenanigans and it shouldn't be working, but I really don't know what to do.

[FatalDmg]

aahahah, hate to say it but the dude's right..Honestly yah yah just train man.. Take everything one step at a time and you'll be good.. If not then I don't have much else to say..

[Jac]

I'm having troubles with sagat :sad:
Anyone want to help with this matchup?

[Sly ShinaniganS]

I'm having troubles with sagat :sad:
Anyone want to help with this matchup?

Sagat, Ryu, Ken

for these character u just gotta use every dirty trick in the book,
Cross over PC's
DV (just the hop) into grab
Skull buster when he doesnt see it coming
A few well placed teleport always helps
Your poking game is must better than theirs so take advantige on that.

best advice is take your time, dont rush and when it's time to att....ATTACK

punish shoryukens with c.mk > SK

if u lose it's cause the other person is better than you

hope it helps

[MaxVandalism315]

i finally got better with my vs. blanka match up. s. mk is ur best friend :tup:
also, i figured out when to expect a wake up electricty, i would just listen if my friend would start mashing lol
is this cheating? :rofl:

[Sly ShinaniganS]

also, i figured out when to expect a wake up electricty, i would just listen if my friend would start mashing lol
is this cheating? :rofl:

Not on my book, Bison is a dirty fighter.
If vega can use his claw then i dont see a problem with hearing mash
If it was wrong the move would be preformed differently.

[yah yaahh b*tch!]

You know, you can stop sucking. That works pretty well, too. I never said to EX headstomp the bitch dead. I said your normals are WAY better than hers. Wanna know something else? Fei Long's flame kick beats EX headstomp, too. You should actually try playing the game a bit more than trying to accuse me of saying some false shit.

Bison's ground game is infinitely better than hers. She has NOTHING outside of Cannon Spike. If you're getting raped by day 2 Cammy, then maybe SF4 isn't the game for you.

You didnt have to take it personal either.

You said stomp beats spike, and it doesnt. Perhaps I could use a little "getting better," then again Ive been playing 2d since tuesday not 1994.

[MaxVandalism315]

Not on my book, Bison is a dirty fighter.
If vega can use his claw then i dont see a problem with hearing mash
If it was wrong the move would be preformed differently.

a funny thing i did one time was when i got dizzy, instead of mashing on my control, i reached over and started mashing on my friends control :rofl:

[poeticflow]

You didnt have to take it personal either.

You said stomp beats spike, and it doesnt. Perhaps I could use a little "getting better," then again Ive been playing 2d since tuesday not 1994.

I think what DS was getting at was Bison's poking and zoning skills are WAY SUPERIOR then Cammy's. As far as the cannon spike, that is where you need to start juking her out with DR and dashes and throw/stomp the ho.

Oh yea. Blocking does work against cammy.

[dhpownsjoo]

Gief has been giving me fits. I can't win consistently since I'm so scared of the SPD and Super. It's mostly just me trying to hit with DR/HS and running away. If he jumps I'll go Psycho Crusher or EX Psycho but it seems for the most part I'm always on my heels and getting nervous. Driving me crazy! S.RH works well against him when he gets in range if they're having to buffer but guys who bring the SPDs without buffer kill me.

[FrAnkDAdAnk]

You didnt have to take it personal either.

You said stomp beats spike, and it doesnt. Perhaps I could use a little "getting better," then again Ive been playing 2d since tuesday not 1994.

Maybe instead of trying to prove DS wrong, you should be focusing on trying to prove to yourself that you can beat Cammy.

You've had like 2 or 3 different people tell you that this fight isn't a hard fight like you're making it out to be. Check it I play Cammy too, if you'd like we can play together so I can help you get over this block you have. Once you realize how easy it is to stomp her out (NOT literally here) it'll help your game in the long run.

But start with this, instead of griping about what Cammy is doing, maybe you should take a step back and see what you're doing. You might have some bad habits that are easy to read and are falling right into what these Cammy players want you to do. If that's the case, it won't matter what character is playing against you because the player itself is going to know how to beat you everytime.

[defcon]

alright you guys with the fuerte woes, imma let you in on the hotness: Focus Attack. i learned this the hard way. and by the hard way, i mean like close to 10 matches of trying to comprehend the chaos going on on the screen with the crazed masked mexican.

FA absorbs both the body splash AND the slide for lvl2 dash close s.fp xx rh.scissors or dash ultra. thus eliminating 2 out of the 3 options he has from his crazy run, so all you have to do is worry about the throw. the throw, from what i've messed around with on practice mode seems to get countered by neutral jump.

[jim_kim]

Any ideas what Bison against Gen is like? I faced off against one, and let me tell you, I've never really played much of A2 or A3 to know what a Gen player is really thinking. So when I went into a match against one, I was totally confused cuz I don't know what kind of moves he has....I just got crossed up in with crane j.mk, c.lk, mantis c.lp all day and then ultra'd out of the air because of that Tornado one.


alright you guys with the fuerte woes, imma let you in on the hotness: Focus Attack. i learned this the hard way. and by the hard way, i mean like close to 10 matches of trying to comprehend the chaos going on on the screen with the crazed masked mexican.

FA absorbs both the body splash AND the slide for lvl2 dash close s.fp xx rh.scissors or dash ultra. thus eliminating 2 out of the 3 options he has from his crazy run, so all you have to do is worry about the throw. the throw, from what i've messed around with on practice mode seems to get countered by neutral jump.

Doesn't body splash sometimes cross up making the focus attack kind of useless? As for slide, I can agree that FA'ing would be the best option, but he has like 3 things he can do with that dash that would piss off any Dictator player....splash, grab, and slide...

[defcon]

good point with the cross-up splash, but it still gets absorbed: which means you DONT HAVE TO GUESS. i'm sure that with practice and the appropriate situation awareness, competent players will just dash cancel the focus rather than finish (and whiff) the attack since fuerte will be at their back.

[jim_kim]

yeah I can see that happening too, and you could just FADC into grab if they do slide.

[Kaal]

a funny thing i did one time was when i got dizzy, instead of mashing on my control, i reached over and started mashing on my friends control :rofl:

A winning Strategy, sir. A very winning strategy. I'll try this one at my next tournament.

As for Bison Vs Gen, I have no idea. I haven't played a good Gen in person or online. As soon as I come up to one I know I'm going to lose.

As for Bison vs. Cammy, if you turtle and use s.MK and s.HK, this match is cheese. A friend of mine mains cammy and all I have to do is s.HK and throw. It's that simple man.

[poeticflow]

alright you guys with the fuerte woes, imma let you in on the hotness: Focus Attack. i learned this the hard way. and by the hard way, i mean like close to 10 matches of trying to comprehend the chaos going on on the screen with the crazed masked mexican.

FA absorbs both the body splash AND the slide for lvl2 dash close s.fp xx rh.scissors or dash ultra. thus eliminating 2 out of the 3 options he has from his crazy run, so all you have to do is worry about the throw. the throw, from what i've messed around with on practice mode seems to get countered by neutral jump.

oh dear lord thanks for the advice....theres this ELF that smokes me every time i play him.

[Sanchez]

Quick notes-

VS Gen
-Standing RH eats Gen for free. He jumps right into it. And he HAS to be on point to counter poke it.

VS Fuerte
-Teleport away out if you get knocked down. Use the PPP teleports. That way if he s messes up your timing with a cross up you either get away or behind him.
-Backdash on wakeup also works. Avoids the throw and splash. He can counter this by doing late splash or slide.
-He can't do shit about getting locked with cr.lk x Scissor Kicks. He has to have EX to get out using either EX RUN or EX AIR THROW. If you got a meterless Fuerte in the corner go to town on his ass.

[Weasel]

Ok, I am sure I am missing something here, but I can't find a reliable way to respond to a Ken, Ryu, Sagat etc. who consistently jump fierce at an angle that puts them just short of a cross up. Basically it's too close to counter with standing round house but not close enough that they land on the other side. My default response is to block, then block the series of jabs followed by the obligatory sweep. The blocked sweep puts them back at the right range to repeat the process.

I have tried things like teleporting out or back dashing from the jump-in and throwing a standing forward, but I can't reliably punish them in a way that dissuades them from endlessly repeating this series. This seems to be the default response by any shoto type player when they find out spamming fireballs won't work due to stomp and DR.

This is my first experience playing a character who doesn't have a dragon punch type move, and it wouldn't be such a huge problem if 99.9% of people in ranked didn't play one of the 3 above characters. Ken especially gives me the most problems because even when I get the range and timing right on a standing roundhouse his jumping roundhouse trades at best, HELP!

[FrAnkDAdAnk]

Ok, I am sure I am missing something here, but I can't find a reliable way to respond to a Ken, Ryu, Sagat etc. who consistently jump fierce at an angle that puts them just short of a cross up. Basically it's too close to counter with standing round house but not close enough that they land on the other side. My default response is to block, then block the series of jabs followed by the obligatory sweep. The blocked sweep puts them back at the right range to repeat the process.

I have tried things like teleporting out or back dashing from the jump-in and throwing a standing forward, but I can't reliably punish them in a way that dissuades them from endlessly repeating this series. This seems to be the default response by any shoto type player when they find out spamming fireballs won't work due to stomp and DR.

This is my first experience playing a character who doesn't have a dragon punch type move, and it wouldn't be such a huge problem if 99.9% of people in ranked didn't play one of the 3 above characters. Ken especially gives me the most problems because even when I get the range and timing right on a standing roundhouse his jumping roundhouse trades at best, HELP!

One thing that I do (and seems to work wonders online) Is when shoto's or Guile's get in that range to where you can't punish with standing roundhouse, as soon as they finish their sweeps and go for the jump, just do a lk scissors. You'll avoid the cross up, and you should recover before them, so if they try to do their low sweeps or anything like that your low forward should beat them. Follow it up with a standing forward and if they jump at you again do another lk scissors and repeat. You'd be amazed at how much free damage you get from that.

[Xavion]

I was wondering if anyone here has any advice against Rufus. Right now hes the only char I see online that gives me problems in the hands of anyone but a complete noob. Particularly, Im having issues breaking out of Dive-kick -> Messiah Kick rushdowns (that dive kick in general is really irritating...). Additionally, his snake strike seems very good at breaking up DV/Stomp pressure.

Im pretty sure my problems lie with a fundemental unfamiliarity with the fat fuck, but I was just wondering if theres anything specific I should do/look for in this matchup?

[Sly ShinaniganS]

Rufus j.hk seems to beat everything i throw in the air (unless i have an angle) so i just dont jump at him unless it's safe.
Also just to let you know EX messiah kick > EX SK & Ultra. he did EX MK on my wake-up, I reversal both times and i lost the rounds >_<
But yeah, thats wha i know, someone please add to the list of what to do. besides rush em b4 he rushes u

I had some luck with S.hk, Wacth out for his C.fp though

[bjj]

One thing that I do (and seems to work wonders online) Is when shoto's or Guile's get in that range to where you can't punish with standing roundhouse, as soon as they finish their sweeps and go for the jump, just do a lk scissors. You'll avoid the cross up, and you should recover before them, so if they try to do their low sweeps or anything like that your low forward should beat them. Follow it up with a standing forward and if they jump at you again do another lk scissors and repeat. You'd be amazed at how much free damage you get from that.

I played a guile that trapped me in a corner and just kept throwing cr. hk. i would block then try scissors but he would flash kick me. then he just kept throwing cr. hk over and over. i got out of it by teleport. but how would you punish guys who do this?
also how do you guys like dealing with ryu/kens (especially bad with blankas) who just jump at you with hp, hk, mk etc. at differnt times. bisons aa sucks and i always have to retreat or tp away. is there a good way to punish them for jumping around so much?
thanks.

[Dizlord]

One thing that I do (and seems to work wonders online) Is when shoto's or Guile's get in that range to where you can't punish with standing roundhouse, as soon as they finish their sweeps and go for the jump, just do a lk scissors. You'll avoid the cross up, and you should recover before them, so if they try to do their low sweeps or anything like that your low forward should beat them. Follow it up with a standing forward and if they jump at you again do another lk scissors and repeat. You'd be amazed at how much free damage you get from that.

I noticed that aswell, if they jump over you a lk SK undergoing them leads to quicker recovery on your side if it's done fast enough.