Help against good Giefs!

[Sh4dowStep]

I'm in need of serious help against good geif players. I hit a major brick wall today, I was floating around 2000 BP and then ran into a few good geif players that gave me major trouble.

It just seems like nothing is reliable against geif. mediocre geifs are easy to just play a run away game. But like I was saying I have trouble with the good ones because they know exactly how to close the gap. once there with in poking range is where the problem starts for me.

It feels like he can grab me through all my pokes, even lightning legs. I mean with chuns non exiestant wake up game, how all good chun players deal with a solid geif.

[Azrael]

I think I've posted bits and pieces about the Gief matchup, but maybe never a full thing on it.

The whole point of the match will be keeping Gief away. He hurts Chun way too much in close. To that extent, S.RH is a great tool for keeping him at bay from full-screen. Aside from the air-sniper properties, it can also catch Gief as he's trying to walk forward, and it can even punish the final spins of a lariat. If Gief gets a little closer, you can substitute S.FP for S.RH.

Once Gief gets to about mid-range or so, switch to S.MP *carefully* (remember - he can SPD pokes!) and jumping straight up. JS.RH has great zoning and well as anti-air uses. If Gief tries to backfist and you just happened to jump, you can punish him with JS.RH into combo of your choice as you come down. JS.RH is nothing you can spam though, as Gief can lariat it if you are close enough to him.

As for other anti-air, S.FP, S.MK, DF+LK, C.FP, C.RH...these all work against Gief jump-ins, and which one to use will vary on the distance of the jump-in, timing, and attack used. Its nothing I could hope to explain here, so you will just have to get experience with this on your own. JS.RH is generally the best option though.

When Gief isn't trying to jump at you all day, you can surprise many a Gief by walking up/dashing up and throwing them. Gief players are so used to opponents running away, that one actually coming toward them will take them off-guard. This isn't something you can abuse, as the Gief player will adapt and throw out jabs, lariat, or just standing SPD you.

You can also use Hasan Shu to foil his low-pokes. Be very careful with the spacing - you'll want the edge of HS to only hit either the limb that Gief has stuck out, or the very edge of his character. Do it too deep in and you run the risk of getting SPD'ed for your troubles.

Gief's sweep has lots of recovery, and can be counter-swept on block.

You can throw Gief out of the startup frames of backfist (EX as well), and maaaaaaybe lariat. I think.

Don't bother trying to cross him up, and forget about DF+RH. If you must jump at him, C.FP beats most everything except *non-startup* frames of crouch lariat. C.FP loses cleanly to crouch lariat (as does everything else...). The best way to jump at Gief is to bait out a lariat, then jump in on him with J.FP. If you can anticipate his jump, you can also beat him in the air with C.FP, which leads to juggle situations.

If you are in close with Gief, DO NOT try any fancy combos, or anything which doesn't put him in blockstun. For example, you throw out the blockstring C.LK, C.LK, Sweep. NO. BAD IDEA. Gief can SPD anything that doesn't leave him in block or hit stun. If you get a combo opening, take it, but make sure you don't whiff. If you get a blocked jab in, just keep jabbing until he's out of grab range, then retreat.

Gief can be zoned fairly well with fireballs. In mid-range though, you will run the risk of eating a backfist. EX Backfist is very punishable on block...you can punish with Ultra even. So see if you can't bait one out. Blocked regular backfist is more tricky, you may be better off just throwing him. If Gief whiffs a backfist...just run away.

If Gief knocks you down and gets in on you, your options are to jump backwards, or dash backwards. Dash backwards is the best option usually, but Gief can make you pay for that with backfist or I think S.RH. So you will need to alternate enough to the point where the Gief is not absolutely certain you're going to backdash away from him. Wake-up, FA stance, dash backwards is also useful...if Gief throws out a jab as you wake up, you'll just absorb the jab and get out of town.

If Gief whiffs a lariat and you happen to be on the ground and with charge and revenge meter, you can ultra.

Also see these threads for lots of good info.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=166280

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=160694

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=166280

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=160694

[Kikouken]

I don't wanna sound like a "me too" after Azrael's insightful answer, but I just thought I'd reitterate that Chun-Li's S.HK works ridiculously well against Zangief, almost to the point that it feels unfair using it.

It's amazing how many people I play on XBL hesitate to pick a character until after they see me pick Chun-Li, then they go right to Gief thinking I'll snap like a twig. In reality, I haven't lost to a Zangief yet.

You'll probably get a bunch of grief from the 'giefs for playing a keep away game (It pissed off one gief player so much he just HAD to send me a PM after the fight calling me a coward. Apparently he thought only honorable way to fight Zangief is to go toe-to-toe with him in a close-quarters slugfest), but just remember they'd spam SPDs just as often as you spam keep-away moves if you gave them half the chance.

[Madden:RobotBMX2K9]

Az pretty much added everything there is vs gief.

i'd like to add one more thing, watch out for ex green hand. The thing is, if you know it's comming, you can easily counter.

And yes, many giefs around hte 2-3 thousand area have absoulutely no ground game whatsoever (with all the shotos, sagats, and occasional blankas, all they ever do is just back the hell up.) so take advantage of their lack of footwork.

[ZenFire]

Apparently all of the banishing flats are punishable even though from my limited experiece they certainly don't seem it, maybe it just has much shorter blockstun than you think it would. Anyway, I'm going to try and punish these with close HK into EX LL. Gief takes 1 extra hit from EX LL, which is a nice bonus. I've had pretty good success with nuetral jump HK at a distance as a preventative measure, and yes of course, s.hk too. But I think the Gief player I play needs to use lariats more, they're very good.

BTW, az, do I take it you wait for the tail end of a whiffed lariat before punishing? What if they move backwards out of range whiffing the lariat, is there anything you can do if you don't have Ultra? Also, your post starts with "you want to keep gief away" but what are the most favorable options when you want to pressure him on wake-up. Like I said before, my comp doesn't use lariats enough so I get away with DF+HK and neutral jump hoping he whiffs an SPD for a free combo. On the other hand from a distance he's been reversal EX green-handing meaty kikokens.

[qial]

Yeah, standing RH ftw. A 'gief was the only guy to beat me in the Gamestop tourney (came really close, at least I still get to move forward), and I had trouble with him stuffing/whiffing all my footsies with lariats. Got home, went into training mode, recorded a Zangief bot into lariat loops and found that a well-timed s. RH stuffs that shit clean.

I remember knocking the 'gief in the tournament out of lariats with straight-jump RH, but it's chancy. You basically have to nail the very top of his head.

[BlueFlamingo]

Just want to thank you Az for all of your insights. You make it a lot easier to know what tools to work with and when to switch things up.