Chun-Li's Anti-Air Options: WIP

[tapoh]

Sooo, I was reading the sticky/pinned Chun-Li threads up front and the one section about Chun-Li's anti-air options mentioned how he couldn't possibly hope to cover the entire subject in that post alone and I immediately thought, "Hey, that sounds topic worthy!"

What I want to do is to organize this as well, into a sort of mini-faq, but I'm an average player at best, so I need as much help as possible making this into a cohesive, concise and helpful document, so feel free to drop some wisdom on my scrubby little head.

Also, in online play, I've been running into some goofiness trying to stop jump ins. As of this time, the main anti-air options I've heard of are (in no particular order):
The Big General List of Anti-Airs:
Jump Up HK
Standing Far HK
Standing Far MK
Standing Far HP
Jump Forward, Air Throw
Close Standing HP
Ducking HP
Ducking MP
Ducking MK
Ducking HK
Standing LP (specifically for Rufus' Dive Kick)
DF + LK flip kick

The main issue that comes with Chun-Li defending jump-ins seems to be that she has so many situational solutions rather than one simple easy uppercut. Unfortunately, there seems to be no other way to tackle this problem other than to become familiar with each and every solution available to you as a Chun-Li player and to recognize their correct implementation.

That said, I think a little organization can go a long way to keeping it all straight in ones head
Reorganized, we can look at situations for anti airs on different parameters:

Anticipation vs. Reaction: The Question of Tempo

Anti-airs that require anticipation:
Far Standing HK (catch them early in the arc)
Far Standing MK (catch them early in the arc)
Jumping Up HK
Meet them in the air, Air Throw (Air Throws seem to do well in SF4. I'll post a youtube link later with a Guile player demonstrating what can be done with air throws, unless someone beats me to it first.)

Anti-airs that lend themselves to twitch:
Ex Spinning Bird
Ducking HP
Ducking MP

Cross-Ups and Close vs. Far: The Question of Space

Anti Close Jump Ins:
Ex Spinning Bird
Close Standing HP
Ducking HP

Anti Far Jump Ins:
Far Standing HK
Far Standing MK
Ducking HK

Anti Cross up:
Ex Spinning Bird

Character Specific Anti-Airs: The Question of Identity

vs. Zangief Cross-Up Body Splash
Ex Spinning Bird

vs. Dictators Head Stomp
Jump Up HK

vs. Claw's Wall Dive
Jump Up HK
Jump Back HK

vs. Rufus' Dive Kick:
Close Standing JP

vs. Abel j.MK
Close standing MP
Crouching MP
Close standing HK
Far standing HK

vs. Ken j.HK
Crouching MP
Crouching HP
Far standing MK (done early)
Close standing MK

vs. Ken j.MK
Close standing MP (anti-crossup)
Crouching MP
Far standing MK
Far standing HP
Close standing HP
Far standing HK
Close standing HK (done early)

vs. Boxer j.HK
Crouching HP (done early)
Far standing HP (at a distance)
Close standing HP
Close standing MP
Close standing MK/HK
Far standing MK/HK

vs. Boxer j.HP
Crouching MP
Close standing MP/HP
Close standing HK
Far standing HK (timing and distance specific)
Far standing HP

vs. Boxer j.HK
Far standing HP
Close standing HK
Far standing HK (timing and distance specific)

vs. Sagat
Crouching HP
Close standing HP

vs. Dhalsim Jumping Back HP
Focus Attack to Dash

Anti-Airs that need further explanation: The Question of Buh?

Defense that works primarily off of Chun-Li being so low to the ground:
Duck, Standing Close HP
Ducking HP
Ducking MP
Ducking MK

The Case for Air Throws:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR53cbBRq9k
More to be filled out at a later date.

Noteworthy posts
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=6213026&postcount=29

Possible future additions:
Character specific analysis
List of Anti-Airs to avoid on a specific match up basis.

So far, there has been many many helpful responses in this topic, and I'm sort of smooshing everything together and I credit nearly everyone who has posted in this topic for their info. Should I reference any information source outside this topic, I will provide a citation. Again, if you feel I have missed anything, or have not explained something in a satisfactory manner, please let me know.

[tapoh]

reserved just in case

[tapoh]

reserved just in case (probably won't need it, but hey, better safe than sorry)

[Joobie]

Good post, thanks a lot.

[MagnetoManiac]

Hey good thread man. Yeah I'm the one who wanted this list. Unfortunately, Azrael was right, it is too long.

You listed the anti airs which is great for the newcomers, but I was thinking more of one that Chun's ____ anti air beats _____'s jump in.

It's an excellent start, maybe we can finish one together sometime? It will take a long time though, especially since I can't set the training dummy to what I want it to do.

[GensouGoroshi]

Great thread. I was also thinking of something more like MM suggested, but as he said it would take a long time. I just experiment in training using her anti airs against various characters so I'm sure other players can do the same.

[kifmzk]

thanks for the organization of her options

[7thFonon]

I didn't see mention of Chun's standing mid punch vs Sagat jump kick (not sure which one it is... it's the one they "Always" use followed by a grab or sweep kick). Great thread by the way.

[Dime_x]

ok im down... starting tomorrow ill start testing ALL of chuns AA's versus the entire cast of jumpins but i will only do the jumpins that i believe to be noteworthy ( you know, the ones that people actually use) so against sagat ill test his jumping: lk, hk, mp and mk.








-dime

[Shinto]

Hey good thread man. Yeah I'm the one who wanted this list. Unfortunately, Azrael was right, it is too long.

You listed the anti airs which is great for the newcomers, but I was thinking more of one that Chun's ____ anti air beats _____'s jump in.

It's an excellent start, maybe we can finish one together sometime? It will take a long time though.

I think we have enough time lol.....

Good shit on the thread....

[tapoh]

Hey good thread man. Yeah I'm the one who wanted this list. Unfortunately, Azrael was right, it is too long.

You listed the anti airs which is great for the newcomers, but I was thinking more of one that Chun's ____ anti air beats _____'s jump in.

It's an excellent start, maybe we can finish one together sometime? It will take a long time though, especially since I can't set the training dummy to what I want it to do.

I'd be down for that. Like Shinto said, we got the time, we have an opportunity, and we have a motive.

This is a well-known issue for Chun-Li, yet it's one that can greatly benefit from documentation in my opinion. I personally don't really care who gets credit either, or where the info comes from, so long as it is accurate and tested. I'm also methodical and patient when it comes to stuff like this, so I'm in no rush or anything. This can be sort of a collaborative project that slowly builds, y'know, test something out, notice something during an online match, just peek your head into this topic, mention the helpful tid bit of info and I'll just add it to the list.

So how about this, why don't we list some character specific jump-ins that we really need to know the counters for? Just to start.

Off the top of my head, I can think of:

Gief Cross Up Splash: Beaten by Ex Bird
Rufus Dive Kick: Beaten by Standing Jab
Bison's Air Stomp: Beaten by Jump Up HK, Jump Back MK, Jump Back LK

What other match-ups need anti-air situations addressed? Are the solutions I listed the most efficient/accurate or did I miss something?

[HeavyMetal7188]

Played a guy today killing me with Gen and Vega. What to do VS things like Claw dive. Blocking it leaves me with no counter, and also gets me raped by Izuna drop.

[MagnetoManiac]

Chun Li low strong vs Shoto/Sagat CLOSE JUMPING ROUNDHOUSE ONLY.

If they are further, early st.forward can beat it clean, but will trade if you catch it late, anticipated roundhouse beats all their jumps, and jump throw beats it if they don't press it early (which they should be pressing it late if they wanna beat your low roundhouse).

[shiningsoul]

Close standing MP (the double slap) can be very useful as anti-crossup.

vs. Abel j.MK
- close standing MP
- crouching MP
- close standing HK
- far standing HK

vs. Ken j.HK
- crouching MP
- crouching HP
- far standing MK (done early)
- close standing MK

vs. Ken j.MK
- close standing MP (anti-crossup)
- crouching MP
- far standing MK
- far standing HP
- close standing HP
- far standing HK
- close standing HK (done early)

vs. Boxer j.HK
- crouching HP (done early)
- far standing HP (at a distance)
- close standing HP
- close standing MP
- close standing MK/HK
- far standing MK/HK

vs. Boxer j.HP
- crouching MP
- close standing MP/HP
- close standing HK
- far standing HK (timing and distance specific)

vs. Sagat
- crouching HP
- close standing HP

[Dime_x]

nice, shit SS. however i dont think the way you listed this will be all that helpful. saying what works versus one characters SPECIFIC normal isnt going to let someone AA that specific normal against that specific character because that CHARACTER HAS OTHER NORMALS TO JUMP IN WITH AT THERE LEISURE.
a better way would be to state what chuns normals beat certain jumpins in those matchups ie.


chuns far st mk beats kens jumpin mk from far distance.








unfortunately it will probably be sunday before i can put time into this because of the gamestop tourny.









-dime

[GensouGoroshi]

I tried using the crouching MK yesterday. That thing saved me from so many shoto crossups into guard pressure. :rofl:

[Crystalis531]

C.MK has worked wonders for me lately, thank you so much to everyone putting the time into doing all these tests, I really appreciate it.

[Knapstar]

Ex spinning bird kick really saved me recently as a anti air and punisher for missed attacks. I think I am starting to get a good feel for the timing for it now after some practice.

[SwmmrManShen]

is there an anti-air for c.viper flame kick BS? i was getting trucked by that today

[MagnetoManiac]

Ex spinning bird kick really saved me recently as a anti air and punisher for missed attacks. I think I am starting to get a good feel for the timing for it now after some practice.

It is her best anti-air, but the fact that it requires meter makes it more of a less viable option for the most part.


is there an anti-air for c.viper flame kick BS? i was getting trucked by that today

Focus then dash away, then meet her in the air with your neutral jumping roundhouse, jump back short, jump back OR forward with medium kick, and double fierces...etc, but you can't anti air her from the ground. Air throw is ok against shitty Vipers but it doesn't work against a nicely done HJC'd burning kick.

edit: I haven't tested it, but maybe you can go under with low strong or low forward, but timing it may make it impractical.

[CHiNeSeDrAgOnST]

i was wondering what the recommended anti-air is against Blanka's j.RH? i've been having problems with aggressive Blanka's lately...

[Madden:RobotBMX2K9]

i was wondering what the recommended anti-air is against Blanka's j.RH? i've been having problems with aggressive Blanka's lately...

i don't think you can react if blanka does a deep hk.

i also have no clue how to fight him in this matchup. should i be up in his grill the whole time?

[Lee_2]

Played a guy today killing me with Gen and Vega. What to do VS things like Claw dive. Blocking it leaves me with no counter, and also gets me raped by Izuna drop.

I've seen replays where Chun has won the air battle by a jumping back RH. Of course it shouldn't be predictable, his claw radius might extend to hit you. And of course, if you let him get too close he'll just izuna drop you out of the air.

Hmm...standing mp (double slap) as AA? Isn't the start up a bit slow? I think the second slap is pointed up, but isn't the first slap chest level?

I found neutral jump FPx2 to be very effective. Wait for their jump in and interrupt. Works like a charm.

[qial]

I'll vouch for jump-away RH against Claw. Learn the timing and that mofo's aerial mix-ups are totally gone

[GensouGoroshi]

^ I'll remember that. Claw has been a problem character for me.

[Knapstar]

Vega and his flying attacks/ izuna drop is one of my major weaknesses especially since she doesn't have a solid anti air like a a good uppercut and his attacks crosses me up as well. I often resort to attacking him directly so he can't charge anything but the best ones use his PPP or KKK moves to avoid them as well giving me fits.

[CHiNeSeDrAgOnST]

my reaction to Claw's air attacks are usually a jumping back fierce or forward. of course sometimes i just randomly react to his jump and i end up looking like dumbass jumping back and attacking for no reason...

[MagnetoManiac]

My way of dealing with claw's wall dive spam is just feel out what he does for the most part.

I usually neutral jump roundhouse, jump back or neutral with an appropriate attack (I'm sure you've seen the listings in threads), and then feel if he wants to Izuna drop (the command grab) or not. If he does, then he's good, and you'll have to switch it up.

So I switch it up to dash around under or away twice, getting away, focus absorbing (once he gets the idea that you will jump and hit him often, he will press the wall slap early meaning he can't grab you if he does) then just capitalize when he's back on the ground and just start working some offense.

This is the one match where I believe Chun's zoning becomes less of use, and it's more about just taking advantage of his weaker defensive options and your higher risk/reward factors against him.

Try that and see if it helps, good luck.

[MagnetoManiac]

Good news guys, I got a new tricky, funny, and effective anti air.

You can duck with low forward like someone says...

And I set the cpu to uppercut when they land, and I piano'd the fierce to make sure it gets there.

The timing is tricky, but if you whiff a low forward, recover while they land, you can throw them before they uppercut you!!! (which is pretty much the fastest thing they can do other than back dash, but who would do that after trying to rush with a jump roundhouse).

So yeah this was tested vs Shoto jump roundhouse, and I really like it, but the timing can be tricky so be careful.

edit: So my friend, a Ken player, said if I kept doing that to his roundhouse, he would switch to jump in short. His prediction was right, it hits the low forward. Fortunately, low strong beats both roundhouse and short attempts, so therefore it being the safer option to give you free damage, although no knockdown. So optimize appropriately and hopefully this helps.

[SuzukaSaint]

my lord chun's AA has become such an issue would it have really broke her to have her AA special

[GensouGoroshi]

The timing is tricky, but if you whiff a low forward, recover while they land, you can throw them before they uppercut you!!!

I was doing this to shotos when I tested the c.MK online. I didn't think they wouldn't be able to uppercut, though! Nice find!

[tapoh]

Wow, got more responses than I thought I would, quicker than I expected as well. I'll update the first post.

BTW, got a specific question for you guys.

Has anyone found a good way to counter Dhalsim's runaway Jumping HP? I know it's an unusual anti-air situation, and I can't seem to find a reliable counter to punish him for that.

[MagnetoManiac]

Wow, got more responses than I thought I would, quicker than I expected as well. I'll update the first post.

BTW, got a specific question for you guys.

Has anyone found a good way to counter Dhalsim's runaway Jumping HP? I know it's an unusual anti-air situation, and I can't seem to find a reliable counter to punish him for that.

That move someone would usually be jumping away with.

If you're quick enough, you can focus it dash up twice then roundhouse if you're in range. Sometimes you won't be in range though, her dash doesn't go too far. If you're even close then low roundhouse is better if they're in the corner or something.

If they're jumping towards you, well, not much you do can other than block. It's not like his pressure is too scary anyway, so blocking it is just fine.

I usually just walk up and start pressuring with something...like poking at least when they land or hasan-shu cuz they don't really have any good reversals to mix you up with after.


edit: The same thing I did with Shotos works for Sagat too, including the uppercut.

edit #2: Against Balrog, as someone stated, cl.fierce will ALWAYS work and will ALWAYS beat his jump fierce and roundhouse.

BUT...you have to be very VERY careful.

If you mess up the timing, he lands his fattest combo.

The timing is delayed to the point that your fierce comes out right when his arm does. That means he's very low to the ground.

Far fierce DOES NOT BEAT Balrog's jumping ROUNDHOUSE. It beats his fierce clean, which they WILL USE at that range, that's why you see st. far fierce winning all the time in match videos. Simply let their roundhouse whiff if they catch on, let them jump again if they want to, and then cl.fierce them appropriately.

Jump air throw and neutral jump roundhouse are really solid too, it's easy to jump throw Rog since his jump air is low.

[The Fx]

well does guile have invincible throws or something?
if he does is he the only one who has invincible throws like that?
is chunli able to throw people out of their ultras/supers like guile is in this vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR53cbBRq9k) *shown above by tapoh*

[GensouGoroshi]

His throws aren't invincible. Chun can do that shit, too.

Air throws are just really good in this game.

[MagnetoManiac]

Good news to add for Chun vs Rog anti airing.

If he jumps with roundhouse, at the point where he clips your FAR fierce (close one timed late will never lose), you can low forward whiff then trip guard throw them before they headbutt. YES TESTED AND APPROVED now go rape them!!

edit: My mistake guys, they can tech the throw, so technically it isn't a trip guard throw. Noone should be pressing techs after that though, unless you throw them too much. So add it to your arsenal anyway. BTW, don't try low strong, it loses to jump roundhouse.

edit2: Better news, if they're jumping that far in range, you can easily react with a standing far forward. If they jump any closer, they're in range for that close fierce. Remember to do the close fierce VERY LATE or else the roundhouse WILL beat you, otherwise it's 100% free.

[ZenFire]

vs. Boxer j.HK
at range where you'd be worried about c.hk and are probably crouch blocking you're probably poised to EX SBK as an AA in case he jumps, but I als noticed boxer's hitbox is kind of low and big which lets c.hp beat it clean most of the time (you can mess it up by misstiming, but otherwise it's solid). Nice thing about AA c.hp is that it drops them right next to you for a mixup (could also be a bad thing if you get reversaled). It has a pretty big range which it works in, too close (about 2 shorts range) and you'll move under them making the jumpin whiff.

Might all be irrelevant if close HP works as well as MagnetoManiac says it does.

[tapoh]

Hey guys, do you think we can compile a list of what EX spinning bird does NOT defend against?

So far I know the list contains:
Rufus's dive kick
Akuma's dive kick
Cammy's dive kick
Gouken's dive kick (wow, dive kicks suck)
Dictator's head stomp
Fuerte's elbow
Vega's J.FP

I'm sure I'm missing some on the list, so feel free to correct me.

[Hotobu]

You all mentioned Vega's wall dive. I've played a few Vega players and what works for me is to play around with the focus system. One thing I've done is focus absorb -> dash to side he'll fall on and throw/ combo. Now this could be bad reaction time from the people I've been playing, but it's worked most of the time and at worst I get a tech or he'll flip away. Another thing that's worked for me is to backdash as soon as he goes to the wall, and then focus. This tends to make players come down in front of me and I'm able to hit them with the focus attack. Of course you have to be aware of EXs, but this has worked for me thus far.

I also noticed that you don't have her far st. HP in your initial list. You have it as situational, but not in the first list. With regards to this attack it seems to have a bizzarro effect against Cammy's dive kick. A player tried to abuse that move against me and I beat it clean 100 % of the time no matter the range. I only played the one guy the one time, so again that could be his timing etc. but I must have smacked him with it like 6 times and never took damage.

[tapoh]

I also noticed that you don't have her far st. HP in your initial list. You have it as situational, but not in the first list.

D'oh.



With regards to this attack it seems to have a bizzarro effect against Cammy's dive kick. A player tried to abuse that move against me and I beat it clean 100 % of the time no matter the range. I only played the one guy the one time, so again that could be his timing etc. but I must have smacked him with it like 6 times and never took damage.

Oh coolsies. I'll try to test that out later, yeah, but that certainly sounds like it has promise.

[okgo]

Is it possible to air throw when Ken's doing J.HK? If not, how should you time your C.MP (or other anti-air) to counter it? Seems like C.MP is the easiest since it also counters Ken's J.MK.

[GensouGoroshi]

Before the j.HK comes out you can air throw him but if it's already out you'll just get hit, at least that's how it is whenever I try. The timing for cr.MP is about the same time as far st.MK, so when he's about halfway coming down from his jump. The later you can time it, the more likely it'll still be out to hit him when he lands.

And, as MagMan said earlier, whiffed cr.MK-> throw also works wonders, especially against crossups.

[Hotobu]

What are the hitboxes like for airthrowing in this game? i.e. what's the vertical range? Is the horizontal range the same as when grounded? Also is the throw area a box (vertical range+ horizontal) or is it circular? I have yet to reliably work that into my game. I used to be a beast at it in A3 with Charlie.

I'd also like to add that j. HK should not be listed as a counter to Vega's wall dive. This attack hits downward and Vega is rarely below you with a dive. The best air to air against wall dive is J.HP. It hits high, it hits hard and stays out for a large percentage of her jump. J. MK is also good as it's got good horizontal range, but j.HK I have to disagree with.

Lastly st. MP against Bison j. HK... really? I'm not saying it because I disagree, but it's more an exclamation of initial disbelief. Which slap are you trying to hit with the first or the second? I've never thought of this attack as anti air.

[MagnetoManiac]

What are the hitboxes like for airthrowing in this game? i.e. what's the vertical range? Is the horizontal range the same as when grounded? Also is the throw area a box (vertical range+ horizontal) or is it circular? I have yet to reliably work that into my game. I used to be a beast at it in A3 with Charlie.

Air throw is gdlk, that's all you need to know. If you're remotely close, and they didn't have a normal ALREADY stuck out (they would be jumping like an online noob if that was the case) then it will work with reaction :wink:

[Hotobu]

Air throw is gdlk, that's all you need to know. If you're remotely close, and they didn't have a normal ALREADY stuck out (they would be jumping like an online noob if that was the case) then it will work with reaction :wink:

Is there any chance of overriding a normal with a throw? A3 is the only game I've played where I relied a lot on air throwing, and throwing someone out of an attack was pretty commonplace. What are the chances of that in SF4?

[MagnetoManiac]

Is there any chance of overriding a normal with a throw? A3 is the only game I've played where I relied a lot on air throwing, and throwing someone out of an attack was pretty commonplace. What are the chances of that in SF4?

If you mean overriding the opponent's normal with your throw...the throw is usually faster in startup and will just about beat any normal in the air if they try and take you head-on with their attack against your throw.

edit: Just jump and do the throw like you would an overhead stomp...I'm almost certain there's no limit as to how early you can do it, as long as you're in the air. That's how I anti-air with it at least.

[Dime_x]

If you mean overriding the opponent's normal with your throw...the throw is usually faster in startup and will just about beat any normal in the air if they try and take you head-on with their attack against your throw.

edit: Just jump and do the throw like you would an overhead stomp...I'm almost certain there's no limit as to how early you can do it, as long as you're in the air. That's how I anti-air with it at least.



never been able to get the throw out that fast while rising, test it out in training mode... if you input it too early you ALWAYS GET a jumping lk.



on the way down tho you can pretty much do it like an inch from the ground.







-dime

[MagnetoManiac]

never been able to get the throw out that fast while rising, test it out in training mode... if you input it too early you ALWAYS GET a jumping lk.



on the way down tho you can pretty much do it like an inch from the ground.







-dime

Wow, you must have done it the frame she left the ground, I see what you mean though. Thanks for the correction.

I never did it THAT early, but it's good to know that you can't, good shit.

[Shinto]

God, pics and or diagram would really help in those rog jumpin explanation lmao....

[lufia22]

Hey guys, do you think we can compile a list of what EX spinning bird does NOT defend against?

So far I know the list contains:
Rufus's dive kick
Akuma's dive kick
Cammy's dive kick
Gouken's dive kick (wow, dive kicks suck)
Dictator's head stomp
Fuerte's elbow
Vega's J.FP

I'm sure I'm missing some on the list, so feel free to correct me.

I was playing a Sakura today and they kept jumping in on me on wake up so I would naturally EX SBK. They kept doing some downward kick and hitting me out of EX SBK...Me not knowing a ton about Sakura went into training mode. I believe what they were using was a jf.HK. I tried reproducing what the person did but could not.

Perhaps I was simply doing the EX SBK too early, but I hit my brother out of the jf.HK every time yet it happened several times in the match. Did I just screw up several times or is there some trick with Sakura I'm missing? Wish I had a recording to look back at it.

[Coth_X]

I was playing a Sakura today and they kept jumping in on me on wake up so I would naturally EX SBK. They kept doing some downward kick and hitting me out of EX SBK...Me not knowing a ton about Sakura went into training mode. I believe what they were using was a jf.HK. I tried reproducing what the person did but could not.

Perhaps I was simply doing the EX SBK too early, but I hit my brother out of the jf.HK every time yet it happened several times in the match. Did I just screw up several times or is there some trick with Sakura I'm missing? Wish I had a recording to look back at it.

I'll go test this too, but a guile airthrowed me out of ex SBK. It was so wtf? that i was caught off guard and he didn't ever try it again for whatever reason.

[MagnetoManiac]

Blanka's jump roundhouse priority is so lame, all of Chun's anti airs are situational against him and usually too hard to tell in a match to get it right. Neutral jump roundhouse and a close air throw at the best.

st. forward - ok but not great, will lose at any other angle except one.

cr. strong - Decent, but can still be hit, yeah Blanka is lame.

cr. forward - Gets hit clean, doesn't go under this time :/.

cr. roundhouse - Only from very far, but no one jumps in that far because it won't even hit.

fierces - Not good here.

Yeah that's pretty much it, otherwise just block if you didn't react fast enough.

If he tries to spam crossups, a simple jump back short will get you free.

[Knapstar]

I'll go test this too, but a guile airthrowed me out of ex SBK. It was so wtf? that i was caught off guard and he didn't ever try it again for whatever reason.

Any air throw can hit chun out of her out of her EX SBK properly timed that is. Also one of the other threads here mentioned that if the enemy jumps in too deep they will beat the ex SBK regardless also dive kicks also beat it too. I never had an issue about Sakura beating my EX SBK at all even the good ones I fought. I don't see how she could beat it unless you mistimed. who knows

[Coth_X]

Any air throw can hit chun out of her out of her EX SBK properly timed that is. Also one of the other threads here mentioned that if the enemy jumps in too deep they will beat the ex SBK regardless also dive kicks also beat it too. I never had an issue about Sakura beating my EX SBK at all even the good ones I fought. I don't see how she could beat it unless you mistimed. who knows

I've started getting into the habit of playing chun much like i played hdr guile. I try to space myself so that s.mk or c.hk or c.hp can be used. I try to use whichever attack is appropriate to the spacing. Although hdr guile had s.mp and c.mk which were godlike in that game.

I look at as should i take a potential trade + using an ex bar vs. blocking and facing a string/throw mixup. i prefer the mixup since i can react better to a string and go for a throw myself. Trying as much as possible to keep from getting knocked down in the first place is good too. Which is why I focus on zoning more than pure offense.

[j0ns]

Scuse my terminology noobishness but what does ducking mean?

[GensouGoroshi]

Ducking = crouching

[huge balls]

God help me. Why in the name of cute baby Jesus didn't they give chun a dedicated AA. Every loss I take is due to my inability to defend jimpins & crossups. Having 20 different normals that are situational really makes defending jimpins a real pain in the ass. Most times I just block since odds are the AA I try will lose. I love chun but this is a huge whole in her game. I mean woud it have been so bad I the left her upkicks in? Is she the only charactor in the game without a dedicated AA? Dear lord this is frustrating.

[tapoh]

Well, you know, for all this talk of sniping people out of the air, I have to admit, sometimes I just don't feel like risking it and I go with blocking as well.

Yeah, I know, we're throwing all this work and testing into finding anti-airs and sometimes you just have to fall back on, "Just block and see what happens next." Yeah, it feels kinda lame, but beggars can't be choosers, right? We Chun-Li players are a resourceful lot, I trust we can still make it work in the end.

That said, I think Chun-Li + Tensho Kyaku/Up Kicks = sex. Utter, utter sex. And I'm gay. Lol.

[Thunder Sock]

I was gonna respond, but Tapoh said it better.

I do think you're damaging your ability to learn by blaming Chun's anti-air game for all your losses though. One thing to remember is that alot of Chun's normals have to be done on reaction, with precise timing, to hit people in the air. Offline thats no problem, the only variables are practise and skill. Online when latency skews timing it just adds another layer of complexity.

When I feel the latency is too high to punish jumps on reaction, I shift to prediction (anticipate the jump).. or just back-off or block... engage in AA battles as little as possible. As Tapoh said, don't feel as though you have to hit them out of the air everytime their feet leave the ground. In fact, I think its detrimental to obsess over one aspect of the game. If your opponent notices you looking to react to just one thing they'll use that against you.

I'm assuming your frustration derives from playing online; because this is where I have inconsistent results against straight jump-ins at long range.

[xero15]

God help me. Why in the name of cute baby Jesus didn't they give chun a dedicated AA. Every loss I take is due to my inability to defend jimpins & crossups. Having 20 different normals that are situational really makes defending jimpins a real pain in the ass. Most times I just block since odds are the AA I try will lose. I love chun but this is a huge whole in her game. I mean woud it have been so bad I the left her upkicks in? Is she the only charactor in the game without a dedicated AA? Dear lord this is frustrating.

i usually just do ex sbk or backdash on cross up attempts but if you dont have meter or dont want to try backdash i think smk should work since it hits straight up first at close range

[huge balls]

It's not that I'm blaming my loses on lack of AA. I know for a fact that I recurve 80% of my damage from someone jumping in on me and my guess on which normal to use is wrong then I eat a combo. All I play is online cuz I don't have any friends who play SF nor do I had a SF4 machine in my city. Latency has alot to do with it. I'm just saying it's a MAJOR flaw with chun. It can be overcome but would it have been such a bad idea to give her atleast her upkicks that she has had sinceST? Is there any other char in 4 that doesent have atleast 1 dedicated AA move? I can't think of 1.

[samma]

I went online to be AA and it was pretty cut and dry a lot of the time which move to use between mk and the j. FKs, when I was controlling the spacing with kikoken. I got surprisingly good coverage with backing away and using a mk. It didn't make me think "omg I have to always use this!" but the angle and speed gave me enough to react with it after taking a step back, compared to fk.

MK worked pretty well against Rose's jump ins, so-so against Balrog, and not so good against Gen, notably. Balrog was pretty funny because at the same spacing he would like to do a jump-in and get hit with far mk, sc. mk stops his dashes. Most straight-forward jump-ins were shut down pretty clean. It also seems to stop potential cross-ups, since the close standing version puts a hit above Chun's head.

[Ciddypoo]

Block more. It gives you the opportunity to examine their blockstrings or patterns with tick throws. For the most part, at worst, you eat a throw, which is usually a lot better than making a bad call for an AA and eating a big, beefy combo.

[Madden:RobotBMX2K9]

Close S.MP will beat sagat's jumpin kicks, not sure about that high priority MP though, too bad sagats online don't know how good it is.

I usually do c.hk (if his leg will not hit my upper body as i c.hk) or c.mp (if the tip of his leg is not going to smack my body. IF the tip of his leg is going to smack your body IF you do a c.mp, a s.mp (double slaps) will beat it. If Sagat jumps in that if you do c.mp it's going to lose, and that if you s.mp the spear hand will come out, then i believe you have no choice but to block.

I know it's hard to visualize.

[Beautiful_Kicks]

I personally feel her air throw is the best anti-air move. Its one of my favorite moves to do when the opponents jumps.

[Hotobu]

One thing I do occasionally is to whiff cr. HP. The thing about this move is that it moves you forward just a bit. What's cool is that when someone jumps in thinking they're going to hit you on the top of the head you slide under them and recover in time to throw them.

[GensouGoroshi]

One thing I do occasionally is to whiff cr. HP. The thing about this move is that it moves you forward just a bit. What's cool is that when someone jumps in thinking they're going to hit you on the top of the head you slide under them and recover in time to throw them.

I never thought about using cr.HP like that. I'll have to try it later.

[Hotobu]

I never thought about using cr.HP like that. I'll have to try it later.

I do this with every character that has a normal that moves them forward. With Gief I df + HK -> SPD. With Rose I cr. MK slide to throw etc.

Another thing I like the move for is Sagat matches. I whiff it all the time to move under high Tigers.

[blueterror]

when i play chun I try to be careful w/ meter, resulting in having enuff meter to have anti air sbk for most of the time in key situations.

[Fir]

toyed around with chun today and this is my biggest problem, stopping those jumpins. Generally I EX spinning bird every so often as my AA, but since it takes away from building up my supers I'll try to go with something else quite as effective.

[MagnetoManiac]

Sup Eph, Chun's Anti Air game is a task of it's own. That's where there's a thread on it lol. If the situation is too tight, just resort to back dashing/dashing under, or doing the same with walking, or if you're recovering from like a kikoken/poke then just block. Optimizing is all about experience...it ain't easy playing Chun yanno ^^.

[Hotobu]

toyed around with chun today and this is my biggest problem, stopping those jumpins. Generally I EX spinning bird every so often as my AA, but since it takes away from building up my supers I'll try to go with something else quite as effective.

9 out of 10 Chun-Li players will tell you that if you're saving up for super with her you aren't playing her right. Her EX moves are too good to hold back. If you happen to get meter every now and then fine, but holding back on EXes for a super handcuffs her potential.

[Thunder Sock]

Hotobu is correct, all Chun's best damage options come from ex-metre (barring counterhit ultra); as well as her easiest/most reliable anti air. I have seen good use of her super in match video's before, but you shouldn't feel bad about spending ex with her.

That said, it's a good idea not to rely heavily on ex-sbk as AA, because that ex-metre is just as valuable elsewhere. At least you are in the right thread to see your options though ^^.

[Knapstar]

I find blocking once in a while helps big time, Using the s HP, s HK, and the ex SBK are all great options but by using block as well and mixing them up prevents the enemy from keying in on what AA I happened to be doing. Blocking doesn't use meter either so that is a plus as long as I watch out for cross ups and use the ex SBK to counter them, I should be just fine as long as I mix things up some.

[BardicKnowledge]

No one here has mentioned jumping forward to meet them with FP, FP, land, jump forward + stomp x3.

Her FP has a decent amount of priority in the air unless they strike very early...not to mention that in terms of risk vs. reward, it's well worth trying even if you take end up eating a jump kick once every few matches.

[Madden:RobotBMX2K9]

sometimes, and only sometimes i use c.hp like I would use guile's B+hk/lk. To move my self forward so i can kikouken but it all depends on the player you're fighting against.

[Thunder Sock]

I do this with every character that has a normal that moves them forward. With Gief I df + HK -> SPD. With Rose I cr. MK slide to throw etc.

Another thing I like the move for is Sagat matches. I whiff it all the time to move under high Tigers.


sometimes, and only sometimes i use c.hp like I would use guile's B+hk/lk. To move my self forward so i can kikouken but it all depends on the player you're fighting against.

I like cr.fp's forward movement for players that like to empty jump in a corner, trying to bait out a whiff from you. It moves you under them and then the second punch tags them, it seems to have a pretty low hitbox too. I feel I should be using it more against high Tiger Shots but I tend to forget -.-.

[rogueyoshi]

hmm, never thought of using crouch MP/HP as anti air. didn't really look like the hitboxes were made for that sort of thing, but i'll give it a test when i'm able to.

[xero15]

not really a useful anti air but i had luck using her fmk when i was outside of distance and they were trying to move in but i dont believe they tried to attack not sure.

[GoofyhanD]

Character Specific Anti-Airs: The Question of Identity


vs. Ken j.HK
Crouching MP
Crouching HP
Far standing MK (done early)
Close standing MK

vs. Ken j.MK
Close standing MP (anti-crossup)
Crouching MP
Far standing MK
Far standing HP
Close standing HP
Far standing HK
Close standing HK (done early)

vs. Boxer j.HK
Crouching HP (done early)
Far standing HP (at a distance)
Close standing HP
Close standing MP
Close standing MK/HK
Far standing MK/HK

vs. Boxer j.HP
Crouching MP
Close standing MP/HP
Close standing HK
Far standing HK (timing and distance specific)
Far standing HP


vs. Sagat
Crouching HP
Close standing HP


In the character specific AA section you have way too many AA's listed that it is not really helpful. For instance, you have 7 options for Ken's forward and 6 options for Balrog's Roundhouse. I think you need to do a B & B list that is a quick reference -- 1 or 2 moves should be listed at the most and they should be the most effective, high percent chance of success. Listing all the AA options for character specifics is basically the same as doing a general AA guide.

Also, sidenote, s. forward is godly against Sagat for AA and you do not have it listed.

[ej_333]

hi, for close in AA situations, in the matchup thread, i noticed a lot of people advocating st cl HP, but here, st cl HK is getting mentioned... i noticed her st cl HK does more damage than HP, i tihnk it comes out faster and recovers faster iirc from frame data, and the knee kinda goes upward too (better hitbox?). i am wondering if the HP just has more priority or something, am i missing something here?

i'm still pretty n00b with chun but i find myself using her cl HK a lot against the hordes of shotos who do early jump attacks. only at 2k BP so far on xbox live, does the characters become more varied at higher levels of BP?

[TVG]

I can't figure out how people use s.hp as an antiair. Maybe my timing sucks.

s.HK works very well against fagat up close, just make SURE you don't get the far version because of bad spacing, you.will.die.

[MagnetoManiac]

I was messing around with this before, but Uraken sealed the deal for me. He jumped back with roundhouse for an anti air when they jumped close. It's sexy for sure.

[Bronzefist]

Whats good AA against Gief's jumping fierce? That shit seems to stuff everything I do. :(

[MagnetoManiac]

Whats good AA against Gief's jumping fierce? That shit seems to stuff everything I do. :(

If it's max range, sweep beats it (long lost forgotten sweep AA lol). Nuki does air throw if he's closer, since air throw is quick and his fierce is almost always really late. st.forward sounds like it would work, but the makoto kick will beat it so I wouldn't risk it...

[Bronzefist]

If it's max range, sweep beats it (long lost forgotten sweep AA lol). Nuki does air throw if he's closer, since air throw is quick and his fierce is almost always really late. st.forward sounds like it would work, but the makoto kick will beat it so I wouldn't risk it...

Weeiiirdd cause the sweep was the first thing I thought of (and tried numerous times). Everytime I used it I got stuffed. I swear his j.fierce hits super low. He's hitting me with the tip of his fist. I'll try it some more to see if I need to adjust my timing. Do I need to try it early or late?

[MagnetoManiac]

Weeiiirdd cause the sweep was the first thing I thought of (and tried numerous times). Everytime I used it I got stuffed. I swear his j.fierce hits super low. He's hitting me with the tip of his fist. I'll try it some more to see if I need to adjust my timing. Do I need to try it early or late?

Hit with the end of your sweep, it should win as long as Gief's fist isn't on your face/torso area, then you need to jump throw him for doing it that close.

[chowtime]

Any good AAs against crossups during wake-up?

[whawha-whawhawhat]

Any good AAs against crossups during wake-up?

I'm constantly charging down when I get knocked down and if someone goes for a cross up the EX SBK always hits them

[Carbuncle]

close standing mk has been working well for me vs shoto crossups

[Raiff]

Does Chun have anything to beat Bison/Dictator's Devils Reverse? This and headstomp kills me if I try to beat it with something, so would I just be better off avoiding it (block/dash)?

[Thunder Sock]

Does Chun have anything to beat Bison/Dictator's Devils Reverse? This and headstomp kills me if I try to beat it with something, so would I just be better off avoiding it (block/dash)?

Asides from meeting them in the air with a well-timed air throw, you can block the headstomp and then charge FA. If they try to devil's reverse into you they eat the focus. Actually Focus on the ground is good against alot of Dictators air mix-ups, however you have to be really careful about ex-headstomp. It's really scarey taking that much damage in focus absorb. It's a good tactic, but you have to be really sharp with your dash, or release reaction.

Another upside is that Dictator has alot of normals that he can use in the air to do ambiguous crossup's. Focus absorbing that stuff can give you time to react to which side he ends up on.

[MagnetoManiac]

yo the tip of her st.forward owns so much shit except for Blanka jump roundhouse. So that should be the go-to anti air, even works against Rog and Honda.

Honda's jump strong beats everything Chun has EXCEPT st.forward. If he neutral jumps your kikoken and tries to go over you can just sweep anti air or far fierce, your choice.

I've been doing great against Gief with st.forward, as long as it's not spaced goofy it should work very good.

st.forward also beats shoto/Sagat jumps really really good.

And last note, don't try any of this online.

[Dime_x]

yo i had a major breakthrough at v 94 today... besides the fact that its the first time i got really good comp since console came out and the fact that i was playing like a scrub at first.



i FINALLY found the timing for chuns far st .hk and let me tell you guys... it OWNS both of hondas jumping heavys... it also owns his neutral jump fierce and MM that tip you gave about using it versus people who jump in the corner....



it OWNS them also.



i'm in love with this move now






-dime

[GensouGoroshi]

^^^ Yeah, I've starting using it a lot more than I used to recently.

[clv716]

good thread man...
personally though i never have a problem doing exSBK on Ken crossups... sometimes it doesn't hit but I have always blamed it on timing

also I personally find air-throw a good strategy if you are anticipating the bison headstomp

[bahn]

Dime: Yeah, far St. RH is an awesome, awesome move. Really effective on people who choose to play the distance game with ya and timid about jumping in. Using this move in conjunction with Hazanshu and stomp shenanigans can totally mess a player's head up. I've been using this move for about several weeks now and it's slowly becoming an integral part of my overall styles as I've become more familiar with the timing.

Also, air throw is FTW. Just gotta watch the timing on the EX version.

[Carbuncle]

i second that. far standing HK has been a staple of my neutral game.

so good vs balrog (boxer) and zangief.

[Essorance]

I looked all over the place, including all the stickies here and in general, but couldn't find out what is meant exactly by near/far and roundhouse, fierce etc. . . I only know about light medium and hard kicks and punches lol

[ClxJames]

Have you noticed that the attack differs based on how far away your opponent is? If he is far, HK give you a roundhouse kick. If he is near, HK gives you a knee to your opponents face

Far MP is a stab with her hand, while close MP is a double slap.

Distance determines what attack will come out

[Dime_x]

lp= jab
lk=short
mp=strong
mk=forward
hp=fierce
hk=roundhouse




cl and far refer to moves that change depending on your proximity to the opponent.


the notation i just explained is oldschool from World Warrior on up to alpha 3.









-dime

[robotic elf]

Do people have good anti-airs for the mirror match? I'm playing a lot more of Chuns online these days, and they like to jump in on me. I can FP the double FP jump ins, cl or far both worked the times I tried them, and I can Heavy Kick the long range mks, but I don't have an answer for the FK. I could try a guessing game where you far.mk if it's late or cr.str if it's early, but that's seems like a very bad idea, and it's probably possible to time it so neither work.

Blocking works okay, but if they only use the kick a couple of times, they can start all that target combo mixup bullshit I barely ever get to use, making it more dangerous than against other characters.

I guess the answer could be "do it to them first, because if they see how you beating it, they'll beat it too" but I'm not sure if that's the best answer.

And for any nub that answers EX SBK, I'd like an option that doesn't require both charge and meter, or simply a response from someone who knows what they're doing that the answer is indeed block, sbk when necessary and FP them if the get too FP mixup happy.

[bahn]

Depending on the distance... I'd recommend the following:

jumping neutral RH: effective against opponents, typically best used on angle jump-ins.
st. mp: very good move to keep opponents on the defense. you can connect two of these together just after the animation completes (think: one-frame linking). Madden has helped me to condition myself to abuse this often.
st. fp: only should be used against opponents from a distance
st. fk: effective on opponents who like to play a safe zone with you
cr. strong i don't use this too often against mirror chuns unless they are attemping to do walk-up grabs.
cr. fp: this move seems useless, but it's great against tagging certain jump-ins, depending on distance of course. What I like about it is that even if the first fp misses, the second one usually catches them. Plus, it's a great way to move you forward safely. (A nice tactic I've picked up from Madden)

Mirror Chun matches in particular are all about playing head games. Typically one player is all rushdown, the other ends up playing defense and attempting to counter all the attacks. Don't let the target combo setups frustrate you, just try to minimize the opportunities where they can even connect that move at all.

Also, be careful with df+RH, which I know seems like a "win" move, but it can be focus absorbed (not highly recommended, since they can follow-up with other attacks), dash foward, or back dash (execute AFTER your character is about to change direction... if you wait too late, you'll get hit). I've been starting to do this more because jay loves using this on me.

Oh, and a well-timed throw can also take Chun out of this too.

//// If you're getting hit by EX SBK a lot -- stop jumping in... or at least use safe jumps. This way you can bait them into thinking you're making a deep jump and punish them after the move concludes. As Dime and the other high-level Chuns can tell you, a lot of low-level Chunners try using EX SBK for everything. You just gotta keep em guessing and don't feel that every situation needs to be beat out first. Let them make some mistakes and hurt em bad.

Pokes/throws are the best thing you can do to maintain positioning. Kikokens should be used generally in combos or to maintain a safe distance.

If you're trying to build meter, use short hazans to quickly build up meter so you have a quick and easy means to retaliate with EX SBKs or Supers.

Lemme know if you need any clarifcation.

p.s. do you play on ps3 or xbl?

[MSP_Lover]

I noticed a lot of things while playing Chun Li in SF4. That I had to do a lot of different things for different characters. Which was really making me mad cause why cant i just have a normal uppercut. But then it would not be Chun Li.
Here are some of the things i discovered while playing many of my firends in Atl.

(correct if wrong)
Ryu
j:hk
jump back hk or sometimes jump forward hk
i notice that when i throw a fireball he jumps over it nothing esle seems to to work right.

E. Honda
j:hk
her roundhouse works everytime or her c.hp


Guile
(dont notice if this is true but when i was playing my friend Guile and he would jump no matter what jump it was, s.hp would work everytime. close or far.)

Ken
Jump over fireball -c:hp, s:hp and o noticed sometime roundhouse

Zangief
(ok this is kind of fun to do.)
I noticed while or the ground Zangief would stand by you. He has like two options. Either to jump or go low. If he jumps you can either ExSBK or you can air throw. I do that a lot cause i can see if they are going to jump or not.
jump in's s:hp or s:hk

Rufus
c:hp or s:hk
I saw when playing Rufus alot that it he jumps with anything other than dive kick or can beat him out the air with j:fp but he has to jump first or it may not work.

Balrog
this is my hardest match up for some reason cause nothing seems to work on him in the air close up.
After throwing fireballs c:hp s:hk s:hp doesnt work. someone please help me with this one. His over head punch beats me out everything time. And a couple pf trade off but i stil got the most damage.

Vega
this is kind of easy. jumping off the wall neutral jump hk or FA forward

Sakura
j:hk
ony thing that works is jump back hk and i had to get used to that because i am not use to jumping back with a move as a anti air

I hope that this can help people and if anything is wrong please let me know.:looney:

[MagnetoManiac]

(correct if wrong)
Ryu
j:hk
jump back hk or sometimes jump forward hk
i notice that when i throw a fireball he jumps over it nothing esle seems to to work right.

That's because you're not Ryu and shouldn't be throwing fireballs like him since you don't have an uppercut like him.


E. Honda
j:hk
her roundhouse works everytime or her c.hp

Only scrub Hondas jump with that move, to beat his jump mp and hp you need to react with st.mk and cr.mp



Guile
(dont notice if this is true but when i was playing my friend Guile and he would jump no matter what jump it was, s.hp would work everytime. close or far.)

Yeah he's easy to anti air.




Ken
Jump over fireball -c:hp, s:hp and o noticed sometime roundhouse

Same as Ryu, and the answer is cr.mp and st.mk as stated earlier in the thread.


Zangief
(ok this is kind of fun to do.)
I noticed while or the ground Zangief would stand by you. He has like two options. Either to jump or go low. If he jumps you can either ExSBK or you can air throw. I do that a lot cause i can see if they are going to jump or not.
jump in's s:hp or s:hk

Air throw if close, st.mk if he's closer, and walk under if he's very close.


Rufus
c:hp or s:hk
I saw when playing Rufus alot that it he jumps with anything other than dive kick or can beat him out the air with j:fp but he has to jump first or it may not work.

Not worth anti airing him unless you already see the dive kick since there's only one place it can go. Otherwise, wasting time anti airing him will just put him in a better position.


Balrog
this is my hardest match up for some reason cause nothing seems to work on him in the air close up.
After throwing fireballs c:hp s:hk s:hp doesnt work. someone please help me with this one. His over head punch beats me out everything time. And a couple pf trade off but i stil got the most damage.

Far hp, close hp, cr.mp (the last option is a choice but inferior to the other two)




Sakura
j:hk
ony thing that works is jump back hk and i had to get used to that because i am not use to jumping back with a move as a anti air

Her jump hk is like Blanka's, so the only thing you can do is EX SBK.


I hope that this can help people and if anything is wrong please let me know.:looney:

For the most part, you can read through the thread.

[MSP_Lover]

thanks a lot

[Carbuncle]

Do people have good anti-airs for the mirror match?

standing mk. that is all.

[Cascadian1106]

If it weren't for Capcom making sure that Chun Li remains a Shoto and Sagat underdog, this thread wouldn't even be necessary. She's the only character in this game without a dedicated anti-air. I'm not even sure why Capcom had to include the Tensho Kyaku as part of her moveset but can't be used as anti-air. What we Chun mainers need is ensure that the next update is a balance patch and not a thread like this which only proves how inferior she is to the other characters in this game. I can list down so many things that Capcom did that ruined her in this game.

1. No dedicated anti-air special. The Ex-Spinning Bird can be easily countered by deep jump ins and delayed jump ins plus the fact that it uses EX Meter which can be used for using Ex Legs.

2. Horrible, horrible vitality. It seems like the strongest woman in the world is by far the weakest in terms of vitality which is even lower than that of Sakura's.

3. She's very balanced. She can't take hits well because of her stupidly low vitality and she also can't dish out high damaging hits because her combos are so multi-hitting that they easily fall victim to this stupid thing called damage scaling.

4. Third-rate Ultra Combo. If mistimed during an execution after a FA crumple, this move will hurl the opponent away as well as if the opponent is hit in mid-air. This stupid ultra can also only be comboed safely for at least a few hits after Ex Legs in the corner and even then, some characters will not take the full 21 hits. If this is linked from one of her multi-hutting combos, as always, this will also be damage scaled.

5. Outpoked by Shotos/Balrog/Vega/Guile. One of her strengths is poking and yet she's outpoked by these slower characters especially the Shotos' with their new crouching middle kick of doom.

I could rant all day about how nerfed and screwed up Chun Li is in this game but my point is, we shouldn't be making threads like this just to ensure that Chun is able to compete with the rest of SF roster. What we should be making are threads that petition for Capcom to correct her and correctly balance the tiers of characters.

[Ikaru]

Damn dude cry more. Why don't you try overcoming the hand you been dealt with Chun-Li or pick up a new character.

This thread is here so people can deal with the OP's air assault, it's up to us as chun players to deal with it accordingly. Yeah it ain't the best, hell it's not the best but it's better than nothing. I could complain about what Ken doesn't have compared to Ryu but instead of posting a rant I switched to Chun and I have more fun and perform better.

[whawha-whawhawhat]

Yeah i play Chun because shes fun to play but she definitely not top tier.

[ahkeentayway]

Look at everyone crying for an anti air.

Either FA and back dash (or just back dash), or space yourself so that you cannot be jumped in on.

When you are jumped in on, EX Sbk. For some reason, people catch on to flashier anti airs than normals. Look at Sakura, anytime I play online with her, it's like opponents think her C.HP is a fluke or something as they keep jumping in on me.

[Cascadian1106]

Damn dude cry more. Why don't you try overcoming the hand you been dealt with Chun-Li or pick up a new character.

This thread is here so people can deal with the OP's air assault, it's up to us as chun players to deal with it accordingly. Yeah it ain't the best, hell it's not the best but it's better than nothing. I could complain about what Ken doesn't have compared to Ryu but instead of posting a rant I switched to Chun and I have more fun and perform better.


I will not pick up a new character because she's always been my favorite and in each SF game I've played before, she's always been high tier. Her speed alone and jump distance are deadly enough that gaining space was never an issue for her. SF 4 changed all that and did a lot more to make sure she'll never stand out against anyone. Overcome? Chun's normals can be stuffed easily if that's what you're talking about and so does ex bird since it doesn't have full invulnerability. As far as anti-air options ae concerned for her, she's got nearly nothing up her sleeve.

[MagnetoManiac]

lmao getting out footsied by other characters....step it up rookie. You're getting out footsied by the player.

[whawha-whawhawhat]

Standing Roundhouse works on Bison's Jump Fierce. The timing is a little strict.

[gfd2726]

Standing Roundhouse works on Bison's Jump Fierce. The timing is a little strict.

I've tried standing roundhouse on Bison's jump fierce but most of the time got beaten. Standing forward trade with Bison's Jump Fierce but not worth it. Best is still FA his jump in or just block.

[JO50]

Cr. strong usually beats a lot of Bison's jump in's, but against jumping fierce requires more distance away from him to act as an AA.

[araforn]

Standing rh for zangief all the time.maybe I've been playin alot of scrubby giefs but it works till they cop on and it's too late.stops the start of his jump and the highest part but Not the descending part.

[Ombra]

I think Zangief stretch FP trades with chun's st.HK

[JO50]

Really depends on spacing and timing for that matter.

[Kelgar]

I think j.mk is a great anti-air, I recently started using it a lot and it never fails. Especially if they jump from far away or if you can anticipate them.

Recently I also tried to use the infamous d/f+lk as anti-air and in other random situations just to see the outcome and after all I think it's not that bad...can I follow up with stomps or ex sbk after landing one of these?

[Ark Impulse]

Recently I also tried to use the infamous d/f+lk as anti-air and in other random situations just to see the outcome and after all I think it's not that bad...can I follow up with stomps or ex sbk after landing one of these?


I think your best option would be trying to juggle with EX legs, as it moves you forward when you use it, thus covering the horizontal distance created when you hit em with the d/f short.

[Armads]

I will not pick up a new character because she's always been my favorite and in each SF game I've played before, she's always been high tier. Her speed alone and jump distance are deadly enough that gaining space was never an issue for her. SF 4 changed all that and did a lot more to make sure she'll never stand out against anyone. Overcome? Chun's normals can be stuffed easily if that's what you're talking about and so does ex bird since it doesn't have full invulnerability. As far as anti-air options ae concerned for her, she's got nearly nothing up her sleeve.

What I'm getting out of this is that she was high tier and easier before, but now that you have some uphill battles we should mob Capcom screaming "Rabble rabble rabble Chun isn't easy mode!"

I actually like using a middle of the road character, honestly. Makes beating Sagat that much sweeter. :badboy:

[tomle]

thanks for this thread. very useful :smile:

[Chun Li]

If it weren't for Capcom making sure that Chun Li remains a Shoto and Sagat underdog, this thread wouldn't even be necessary. She's the only character in this game without a dedicated anti-air. I'm not even sure why Capcom had to include the Tensho Kyaku as part of her moveset but can't be used as anti-air. What we Chun mainers need is ensure that the next update is a balance patch and not a thread like this which only proves how inferior she is to the other characters in this game. I can list down so many things that Capcom did that ruined her in this game.

1. No dedicated anti-air special. The Ex-Spinning Bird can be easily countered by deep jump ins and delayed jump ins plus the fact that it uses EX Meter which can be used for using Ex Legs.

2. Horrible, horrible vitality. It seems like the strongest woman in the world is by far the weakest in terms of vitality which is even lower than that of Sakura's.

3. She's very balanced. She can't take hits well because of her stupidly low vitality and she also can't dish out high damaging hits because her combos are so multi-hitting that they easily fall victim to this stupid thing called damage scaling.

4. Third-rate Ultra Combo. If mistimed during an execution after a FA crumple, this move will hurl the opponent away as well as if the opponent is hit in mid-air. This stupid ultra can also only be comboed safely for at least a few hits after Ex Legs in the corner and even then, some characters will not take the full 21 hits. If this is linked from one of her multi-hutting combos, as always, this will also be damage scaled.

5. Outpoked by Shotos/Balrog/Vega/Guile. One of her strengths is poking and yet she's outpoked by these slower characters especially the Shotos' with their new crouching middle kick of doom.

I could rant all day about how nerfed and screwed up Chun Li is in this game but my point is, we shouldn't be making threads like this just to ensure that Chun is able to compete with the rest of SF roster. What we should be making are threads that petition for Capcom to correct her and correctly balance the tiers of characters.

You know, I'd be inclined to do that. Do you know how? I swear if I see the game balance designer of Chun Li I'll strangle him or harass her. :bgrin:

[megido]

I'm far from a chun-li god but I'm competent enough to know that focus attacks as an anti-air shouldn't be slept on.

Be sure to release the attack and not cancel it to dash until the hit registers as soon as you hear the sound effect to prevent them from continuing their combo on the ground. Canceling the attack to dash prior to the hit registering will hurt you.

[WhaWhat]

I'm far from a chun-li god but I'm competent enough to know that focus attacks as an anti-air shouldn't be slept on.

Be sure to release the attack and not cancel it to dash until the hit registers as soon as you hear the sound effect to prevent them from continuing their combo on the ground. Canceling the attack to dash prior to the hit registering will hurt you.

Chun's focus attack is a good anti air but its also dangerous. If you do one against a deep jump in from a shoto youre fucked because even if you release it or backdash a fierce DP will hit you. And if Ryu jumps in with strong (2 hit) he'll hit you out of it and combo. Akuma will Demon you if he even sees an FA. Other characters with good reversals are the same way (Rufus' messiah kick especially).

I used to abuse FA as anti air but against good players it gets punished badly so I'm trying to rely on block and defense more.

Bahn: lol Shiva

[samma]

Anti-air cr. mk xx hk legs > super. (that shit got me a perfect today lol) Or FADC cawmbow. Or ex legs. Do some damage, make them think twice about it.

[bahn]

^^ Yeah, I use it a lot when I am using Guile and Chun. Scares the heck out of ppl after poking them, they attempt to jump and you've got a well-timed FA waiting for them. So good; but must be used cautiously. Like Shiva (whawha) said, it's not something you can typically abuse against really good players (why do you think FAs aren't a constant tactic seen in tournament matches?)

It's just not worth getting punished for the sake of getting some style points using the FA system so extensively.

[samma]

And you won't get hit by a guaranteed uppercut like you will for abusing FA.

[megido]

Agreed. I do not recommend getting predictable on using FA as an anti-air. But a well timed FA can open a crumple stun for damage opportunities - in conjunction with other solid AA options, this can cause enough of a deterrent in players to spend time more on the ground game with Chun. In many cases this can work to your advantage.

[Quintessent]

I'm kinda surprised that a topic on AA's against Rufus hasn't come up thus far. For me, AA'ing Rufus is probably the hardest match-up for me to AA.

There are only a few ways open to Rufus for him to get inside and then dominate the match. It's either to Messiah Kick or jump-ins (variation with jumps and dive kicks).

What do you guys use against a good Rufus? AA'ing his regular jumps in are not all that difficult, but what are Chun's options when you see the dive kick coming?

So far I've tried s.short, c.jab, s.jab, s.forward, and a variety of other stuff. What's the best option against Rufus' options?

[MagnetoManiac]

* vs Rufus

st.forward

jump double fierce (only against his high jumps, don't get baited)

neutral jump roundhouse

neutral jump strong (downward angle)

jump forward (long range)

jump short (very fast)

jump away roundhouse (good up close and to get away with)

st.fierce (if he tries to jump outside of st.forward range)

st.roundhouse (if he's in the air from very far)

You'll need to alternate anti airs if he does delayed dive kicks. Air-to-air anti airs beat delayed dive kicks, and the grounded ones will beat the regular dive kicks.

* = Chun does not have anti-airs online, with < 4 bars it isn't even a question anymore...she's fucked. Remember that this is for offline use, only.

[Cascadian1106]

lmao getting out footsied by other characters....step it up rookie. You're getting out footsied by the player.

LOL...Rookie...right...And I presume you're an expert. Gimme a break. Relying on normals that barely do damage to win with a character. Talk about expert advice. If this is what you so-called "Chun Experts" do in your matches, you should have just picked up Tekken or Virtua Fighter where you could noobishly press buttons to throw out random jabs, punches or kicks.

An article like this is nothing more than a mere humiliation to the already nerfed and humiliated Chun Li in this game that people actually need to brainstorm about handling jump-in attacks with her.

[Hoffburger]

LOL...Rookie...right...And I presume you're an expert. Gimme a break. Relying on normals that barely do damage to win with a character. Talk about expert advice. If this is what you so-called "Chun Experts" do in your matches, you should have just picked up Tekken or Virtua Fighter where you could noobishly press buttons to throw out random jabs, punches or kicks.

An article like this is nothing more than a mere humiliation to the already nerfed and humiliated Chun Li in this game that people actually need to brainstorm about handling jump-in attacks with her.

LOL wow :confused:, people kept telling me to work on my footsie game so you know what I did yesterday? I played a whole bunch of matches where I only used pokes and punish ultras. No legs, no SBK, no HSU, just normals. It actually worked out fine and you'd be surprised how many stuns you get when you poke the hell out of people.

[Skatan Milla]

LOL...Rookie...right...And I presume you're an expert. Gimme a break. Relying on normals that barely do damage to win with a character. Talk about expert advice. If this is what you so-called "Chun Experts" do in your matches, you should have just picked up Tekken or Virtua Fighter where you could noobishly press buttons to throw out random jabs, punches or kicks.

An article like this is nothing more than a mere humiliation to the already nerfed and humiliated Chun Li in this game that people actually need to brainstorm about handling jump-in attacks with her.

....

Hahahahahahaha!

It's funny, I kind of get the hope from time to time that the internet has become less stupid, but a guy like this always comes along and let's me relize the facts:lol:
Just to make it clear, everything you said, every single word, oozes mental retardation.

Have a nice day spamming that hk sbk!

[EvilRyu1481]

LOL...Rookie...right...And I presume you're an expert. Gimme a break. Relying on normals that barely do damage to win with a character. Talk about expert advice. If this is what you so-called "Chun Experts" do in your matches, you should have just picked up Tekken or Virtua Fighter where you could noobishly press buttons to throw out random jabs, punches or kicks.

An article like this is nothing more than a mere humiliation to the already nerfed and humiliated Chun Li in this game that people actually need to brainstorm about handling jump-in attacks with her.

:coffee: Gotta love Mondays.

[GensouGoroshi]

LOL...Rookie...right...And I presume you're an expert. Gimme a break. Relying on normals that barely do damage to win with a character. Talk about expert advice. If this is what you so-called "Chun Experts" do in your matches, you should have just picked up Tekken or Virtua Fighter where you could noobishly press buttons to throw out random jabs, punches or kicks.

An article like this is nothing more than a mere humiliation to the already nerfed and humiliated Chun Li in this game that people actually need to brainstorm about handling jump-in attacks with her.

You can't seriously be this stupid. I'm guessing you've never played Capcom vs. SNK 2.

Also, Virtua Fighter and mash should never belong in the same sentence. It's a much deeper game than you can ever imagine.

[Armads]

....

Hahahahahahaha!

It's funny, I kind of get the hope from time to time that the internet has become less stupid, but a guy like this always comes along and let's me relize the facts:lol:
Just to make it clear, everything you said, every single word, oozes mental retardation.

Have a nice day spamming that hk sbk!

Squelch that faith in humanity, my friend, for it shall only serve to disappoint.

Also - hk SBK is too advanced for him. It implies some form of execution skill. My guess would be lk/mk legs.

[SlightlyCool]

Squelch that faith in humanity, my friend, for it shall only serve to disappoint.

Also - hk SBK is too advanced for him. It implies some form of execution skill. My guess would be lk/mk legs.

More like tenshokyaku whenever in range.

[Venomish]

against rufus I zone him with kikouken from far away (full screen), and use st.roundhouse to prevent him from jump in.

to magneto maniac
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=184359&page=3

[CerberusMuzzle]

Great stuff. Anti-air has been a problem for me of late, I played a Ryu at the arcade who repeatedly j.hk -> jabs -> throw or sweep.