Chun-Li vs. Guile (Help Request)

[SouLoNi]

First off, thank you for that wonderful sticky at the top of the forum. It has helped me to no end in what I think is a risky game for Chun-Li.

Having said that, I suppose I still need a bit of help vs. a Guile regardless of Chun-Li's advantage over him. This also all occured prior to me learning that Hosenka goes through fireballs, and won't get backsplash from a passing SB after the initial hit... I suppose that would have helped boost my confidence. Here goes:

I was having difficulty vs. a Guile the other day (in an arcade, not online or cpu) as Chun-li. I would trade rounds with him if I was lucky, but ultimately I'd get smashed. I suppose I was under the old impression that I would be able to out poke him and cross him up, but I would get met with an unlikely foe: The Backbreaker.

I'm not fantastic, but I play decently. The problem was that I was getting majorly pressured by Sonic Booms, and my advances seemed to be strained at best. I felt little control over my forward momentum, while it seemed like Sonic boom spam merely lured me towards him instead of pushing me away. All in all, I think I learned that starting a poking game early is smart, and corners vs. guile are very beneficial for Chunners -- but I still remember the damn backbreakers.

1. I never air threw him, or even tried -- would this go in my favor? If he jumped with an early leg, could chunli use the leg's hitbox as the throw start?

2. What is a good thing to do instead of trying to anti-air guile (Which is fruitless at times w/ such a deep hitting leg)? The suggestion to 'block and see what happens' has been given, but I'm not quite sure that would work without a stable foundation on what I should aim to do.

3. FADC --> Then what? The typical scenario is that I FADC foward to meet another Sonic Boom which I block. Jump = bad idea, so should I wait for him to jump? This leads to question 2, and 1 as well.


Tactics I used:
Kikouken battle (I know, stupid me), w/ some EX's once in awhile. The speed of his EX booms were too good though.

Tick throw worked a bit.

Walk up throw didn't work so much, he would hit me with a Cr. MK or Cr. MP into Sonic Boom.

Anti-Airs -- I think I tried everything I could think of, and either got stuffed or canceled out.


Thanks for your time, and just some emphasis on good tactics would really make me feel better -- and perhaps some key things I need to get over or learn to forget (before this, I played CVS2 religiously, and used chun-li alot there).

[Azrael]

Can we keep "I need help against __________ character" threads in the Strategy and Matchups thread?

Anyway, don’t try to fight Guile in the air, or from full screen. He has the advantage there. Where you do want to be fighting him is around sweep range, or just a little bit outside of it.

Despite both of you being charge characters, Guile wins the fireball fight because his is better. You don’t need to out-fireball him though, you just want to get to the target distance. If Guile is SB-happy, FA absorb a few to build revenge meter and avoid the others. You just want to close the distance to half-screen or less. From there, you can Hasan Shu over the SB. Do so by selectively FA dashing through one or two, jumping forward (from a safe distance...), or using Kikouken selectively to cancel a SB then walk forward. Guile can't run away forever, and if he keeps moving backwards he'll push himself into a corner, which would be great for you.

In mid range, Chun outpokes Guile. Its not lopsided, Guile can still get his hits in, but Chun's overall game in this range is better. One major aspect is that Guile can't really score a knockdown against you without throwing out a sweep or FK - both of which are extremely risky if whiffed or even blocked. Chun has HS which leads to combo damage, and even ultra. You can sweep a lot of his pokes as well, and is of course a knockdown. If you score a knockdown, you should be crossing up Guile with meaty LK or DF+RH. Guile can't deal with it, and he loses his charge as well. You can also stay in front of him and try to bait out FK's.

Up close, Guile's options are a bit better...he can get in jabs which might lead to combo damage and he can FADC his FK. You can fight in there too, just be patient and not rush into FK's. If Guile FK's too often, block more and punish him hard. If you spook him into not FK'ing, you can apply cautious pressure.

It is possible to ultra through SB, but since his recovery is so fast, the further you are from him, the faster you have to do it. Try to study your Guile opponent and see if there are any noticeable patterns when he usually throws SB. Get to know this, and be ready to ultra if such a situation arises. Don't do it blindly and hope that he SB'ed - you still want to do it on reaction, but it helps your reaction speed if there is some sort of anticipation there.

For the most part you'll want to stay on the ground unless avoiding SB's or crossing him up. If your Guile opponent is jumpy, you can beat him in the air by jumping after him with air throw, J.FP, or JS.RH. Or, good 'ol EX SBK.

[SouLoNi]

My apologies, I have never browsed past the character specific forums since there is usually matchup info (and stickies) here.

The detail you added here is incredibly useful though, and I think I can take a better route towards a solution now.

[qial]

This seems like a match-up where that j. forward stomp -> cross-up would come in handy if you got in close. I think it'd stuff FK's--might still have to watch out for cr. fierce though. I'll see if I can do some testing on this, if I ever run into some Guiles online scattered throughout the Ken Armies

[uNEquil]

cross ups is guiles worst nightmare, learn them, crossup with j.lk sets you up for good combos, ticks and kara throws. Also if your jumping at Guile While he's waking up from a knock down, time a j.lk at about mid air fall and you will hit him as he's rising with a flash kick.

If you nail him a couple of times this will scare him into not trying and you can try more riskier moves like ticking or kara throw or even a normal cross up. Just mix it up and he will be the one confused.

[vermifax]

Personally the strategy and matchup thread has become too large to be useful to someone looking for specific info. I understand the logic, but it doesn't seem to be working.

[CowboyK]

Personally the strategy and matchup thread has become too large to be useful to someone looking for specific info. I understand the logic, but it doesn't seem to be working.

Totally, agree. If we keep everything in the matchup thread, people will have to look through many pages and some info would be lost if someone overlooked a post. Maybe it would be a good idea to just sticky some of these threads, and then people can just look at them there.

[MoogleCharm]

Question: I've been trying to find ways of punishing Guile inbetween kicks of his sweep. Anything I've tried though doesn't work and I get hit with the 2nd like a chump. Is there anything we can do inbetween those kicks? has to be?

[GensouGoroshi]

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=6272201&postcount=390

Those are what I usually do. For the first one, you can get a cr.LK instead of cr.LP but timing is a little tighter. Of course you can super/ultra as well.

[MoogleCharm]

nice! thanks.

[TimN]

When you do manage to get in close, remember that you can FADC his second trip. I think the trip is ingrained in Guile players everywhere, so once he starts combo'ing, he's sure to do a trip eventually.

[Ironreaver7]

Question: I've been trying to find ways of punishing Guile inbetween kicks of his sweep. Anything I've tried though doesn't work and I get hit with the 2nd like a chump. Is there anything we can do inbetween those kicks? has to be?

U can cleanly ultra after his first leg during his cr.RH (double sweep), i do it all the time.

[GoofyhanD]

U can cleanly ultra after his first leg during his cr.RH (double sweep), i do it all the time.

Seconded.

[SuzukaSaint]

i think it will be hard to keep chun vs ____ in stratedgy and match ups as shes verey vs ____ specific and most advice in stratedgy match ups is vague and methodically robotic ,like when i asked 4 advice vs ryu i get FA absorb FBs then ULTRA shitty advice. i bet these ____ vs ____ will show up everywhere....im not supporting it nor shunning it just saying.

[ClxJames]

In his defense Azrael, alot of posts get ignored. Then again it might be because we didnt sift through the pages looking to see if you already answered them.

As for Guile, I dont seem to be fighting any good ones yet, so I usually get in close by FADC through all the SB shenanigans then waiting for him to charge his FK. I'll hit him with a Flip Kick or Hazan Shu and that usually makes them think twice about constantly waiting on that FK. Catch him enough times and you may be able to start jumping in if he stops chargin and starts fighting.

good luck


U can cleanly ultra after his first leg during his cr.RH (double sweep), i do it all the time.
Lets say we dont have the meter. What else would work?

[GensouGoroshi]

Lets say we dont have the meter. What else would work?

Look at my post earlier in the thread....:confused:

[SuzukaSaint]

im not sure u want to hazansho a FK charging guile fk beats it im mean sure if u can hit him before he charges... if i was guile id FA it then FK

[Thunder Sock]

im not sure u want to hazansho a FK charging guile fk beats it im mean sure if u can hit him before he charges... if i was guile id FA it then FK

If he's content to sit on his charge you can setup hasan shu with kikoken, which makes it a decent option with good reward. You get to put him in a knockdown situation; which is a big plus for this matchup.