Trying to "turn the corner"

[U-Volt]

Hello all,
I've been a frequent visitor of this site all the way back in the CVS2 days, but just finally decided to break my forum cherry. I have decided to main Sagat in SF4, and while I'm destroying my more casual playing friends, I seem to lose online a lot lately and I'm not sure why. I really have been trying to learn combos, FADC's, and every bit of knowledge I can get from any previous post in the Sagat forums...but it always seems like the online opponents are 1 step ahead of me. As the topic title states...I'm really trying to "turn the corner" from being a great beginner to a better intermediate player here.

It seems I have a lot of problems with punishing a blocked jumping HK/sweep attempt. I can't figure out the correct counter. Pretty much any time I'm within arm's length of someone, I just can't put everything together that I've been trying. Any suggestions on a good combo to start with, and build off?

As far as zoning, I feel that's the best part of my game. However, I could still use a lot of improvement there, too. I am just starting to learn when and where to throw a standing HK as anti-air....previously I was dashing/Tiger Uppercut for the same situation. How good is a forward HK for anti air?

I think a main flaw of mine right now is I am trying to break out of the habit of using the jumping HK/sweep myself. I think I get too stressed and become too aggressive sometimes.

FYI: I am playing with a fightpad right now, and will be upgrading to a TE stick once the second shipment arrives at stores or online. I will most likely suck starting off with it, but I can already tell just by trying to perfect FADC combos that a stick is VITAL to consistantly pulling those and other advanced moves off.

Lastly, if any kind soul would ever want to hop online with me and show me a few things, I'd be very thankful. I'm a quick learner, and the opposite of a scrub...I just want to get better!!! My gamertag is U Volt on the Xbox360. Thanks in advance for all of the help guys...I look forward to the responses. :wgrin:

[Pistol Shrimp]

I really hate to push my own thread, but http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=178671 go there. I'm sorta like you, maybe just a little further along. I went through all the same stuff you did.

You really just want to be able to capitalize on everything you get. For me, jumping in is where I get the least of my damage. Most of my damage comes from stuffing things with HK. haha.

Basically, if you touch them, you want to be able to land your ultra. The biggest ways are going to be~

Any tiger uppercut. Learning to FADC from your uppercut into your ultra is super important.

If your uppercut hits as a counter hit, you'll want to FADC into a back dash, f.HK, ultra. It changes depending on the characters, and counter hit uppercut FADC forwards ultra is easier, but way less damaging.

Any tiger uppercut in a combo should be followed by holding mp+mk, pressing forward twice and holding it. Waiting. Hitting hk while still holding forward. Ultra. That's how my friend does it, *I* still have problems as I'm nubby.

If you land a full (no awkward bounce out) ex uppercut, you can just combo into the ultra as is, but it's a bit hard and you want to catch them right above sagat's head or it'll miss. Training mode is your friend.

It's really not hard to combo into is, as all of sagat's pokes and combo starters go into the tiger uppercut, not to mention it's good anti-air. It's scary to jump in on sagat when he has meter and ultra. Even if the uppercut trades, a lot of time you still can recover and ultra the opponent. Dizzam!

f.HK is not his best anti-air option. You only really want to do f.HK when you know it'll hit. I find I land it most often when an opponent is jumping about a little over half screen away over a fireball. I dunno, you will sorta learn to feel it out as you go. I don't land too many f.HK, f.HK anti-airs.

Be patient. Learn when to and when not to tiger knee. Tiger knee straight wrecks some characters.

Remember c.mk isn't safe and doesn't have as much range as you might think, but it's still really good. You *HAVE* to hit with it, because you HAVE to cancel it into the fireball. Trust me. It's really punishable if you whiff it.

Standing mk is a good poke, but the far mk isn't really great for anything except kinda just zoning them, as it is not cancelable and doesn't really leave you at good block advantage.

Standing lk is way better than you think it is.

Sagat's got a lot of tools, but the reason he's top tier is because he can straight just destroy your life bar off any mistake, so it's important you learn to capitalize for big damage anything you land a hit.

Good luck!!

[TAMANAPANTS]

I am also about where Pistol Shrimp is and all of his advice is sound.

I agree completely that you need to get out of the habit of J.hk -> Sweep. Any half decent player will punish that all day.

A few things to help you bridge the gap from where you are to where you want to go:

Learn to ultra of a straight focus attack. Basically when your opponent is in a crumple state. If you have meter the Focus attack followed with this will take away a good half of their life and there is nothing they can do to stop it if the level 2 or 3 focus attack hits. The FADC is great, but taking it from training into a match takes time and practice and its important to take one step at a time. It helps to make incremental improvements rather than thinking you will just go from where you are to a pro in a day or 2. Learning this game is like learning to play a musical instrument.

What Pistol Shrimp says about pokes to uppercuts and knees is key as is medium kick to low tiger shot - good for both defence and attack and not to hard to learn or implement in a fight. Practice this for good basic quick combos.

For anti air, normal high kick works a treat or trades at worst and low tiger uppercuts are also good.

Last but not least go onto Youtube and watch Mago or Ojisan play as sagat. You will see how they zone, what combos work for them and how they punish. Most really good sagat players I see or come across are good at setting up traps or frustrating their opponent to the point they do something stupid. They then counter attack hard to take the advantage. Once they have their opponent on the ropes, they then press the advantage and pressure hard.

Hope this helps.

[U-Volt]

Awesome advice guys, thanks a lot.

A few things.....
I've actually been practicing ex uppercut-->ultra for the past few days, so at least I have that much right. Also, the FA-->Ultra is my main setup for it. I just seem to get punished by charging the FA too long sometimes. Unblockability is too tempting sometimes I guess :P.

I'm glad to hear standing LK is such a good poke. I've been trying to work that in as much as possible. C. MK is also something I've been trying to work in, but I've had zero success with it. It seems that whenever I use it, the opponent is low blocking. Then when I use it like an idiot, I get punished.

A big thing that's hard for me, and makes me realize how vital a stick is, is getting off Tiger Uppercuts and Knees off in combos rather than Tiger Shots. The motion is laborious even on a fightpad. I've heard there's actually easy motions to get off moves in combos, someone even said I can throw a c. mk and then qcf and I'll get a tiger off. Not sure if that's correct, but if so, I wonder if there's an similar way to guarantee knees or uppercuts?

Pistol, I've actually visited your thread quite a few times, my friend....and will continue to check it out until it all soaks in. I'll add you on my friends list on 360, maybe we can nub it up together sometime, eh? I actually live not too far from you, and used to live in Scummerville/Charleston for 6 years of my life. I know there's not much to do out there, so you'll be a pro in no time :wgrin:!! Thanks for the info too, Tamanapants, very useful stuff.

Everyone please feel free to post more tips, thanks again!

[bebithanos]

I'm in the same spot as you lots of practicing I seem to be getting better in my eyes but that doesn't mean much XD.

As for the easy motion, I have been doing c.mk and just qcf and it just comes out like magic. If you df when you c.mk that shortcuts knees and uppercuts.

Pistol and Tamana great tips ty. Helps me too. ^.^

[TAMANAPANTS]

Glad to know its of use. On the focus attack set ups especially against a ken, Ryu etc, if anyone messes up their dragon punches and you have blocked close in (especially medium or heavy) go straight into a focus and hit as they touch down (level 2 will be enough as the landing animation finishes and they cannot block)...crumple.... ultra. Very low risk.

On your problem with not getting crouch medium kick to work, do it with the low tiger shot not on its own. This pushes your opponent back so is safer. If you do put it out and they block, it suprises quiet a few people if you use your overhead next. Loads of people think they are safe if they just sit there low blocking.

With a stick you can work with shortcuts as bebithanos says. As with the example c.mk, keep the button pressed down qtr circle towards and release mk and hey presto combo into low tiger. Because it is all run on micro switches when you make an input as you release it, it counts as 2 in lots of different situations.

[neemo6]

Great thread, Im in the exact same boat as you U-volt and I get way too excited and stressed while playing, especially when I lose I get instant rage, and im an easygoing guy. Hit me up on PSN: AWDdsm maybe we can spar and help each other out.

[Pistol Shrimp]

You have no idea how happy it makes to help other Sagat players. For me, I learn best by constantly writing and rewriting information, so giving you tips actually helps me reinforce the data in my own head.

Taman is right, c.mk should ALWAYS be canceled into low tiger shot (I said it in my first post!) because it's punishable otherwise.

I'm getting frustrated rl because execution has always been my weak point. Today I went to a tourny, and I feel like I was the better player, but my execution is holding me back. I can only link ultra off deep jump in hk, f.hk, and fa. That's not good enough. You have to be scary with Sagat. They have to believe that any mistake on their part will result in 50% life gone. That's the level I need to get to, so remember I'm in training mode with you, whiffing ultras lol.

Being able to easily land your ultra is I think, the biggest thing between an average Sagat and a good Sagat. That and patience.

Also, cheat way to do c.mk, tiger knee is df+mk, df+any kick. df, df for some reason short cuts to dragon punch motion.

[TAMANAPANTS]

Went through your thread Pistol Shrimp. Really good stuff with loads of detail. I just love the fact that you can always learn something new and to be honest I find it is the little things like the pokes, chain and link combos that are just as important to know. Not as exciting as Ultra combos but still needed to become a higher level player.

Dont mean to bore with the c.mk to low tiger shot (and this has not been said from what I have seen), the c.mk needs to hit or be blocked to cancel to low tiger shot. If the kick comes up short forget trying the low tiger shot.

I dont know if you guys play darts at all (bear with me)? more complex and damaging Ultra combos are like throwing 180's in darts. I always found 2 darts in the treble 20 and then I would have a nervous breakdown when trying to get the third. Once I had hit a few then it was not such a big deal anymore. The ultra combos are like this in a match. Dont get me wrong, I am by no means an Ultra master and whiff way more than I hit from ex uppercut or FADC, but have found that once I got passed the first 4-5 my level of nerves (and normally tightening up, which is not good) has reduced.

You are bang on about not being as scary if you cannot hit the ultra enough. Its funny, but when you play someone for the first time, if you beat them fairly comfortably the second bout is never the same as they are more worried about you (or go right the other way and try to press without ny tactics). If you are playing online though be sure to try the more difficult combos on a good connection. Lost to a Ryu player yesterday and it was lagging hard (I dont mind losing, but hate it when there is lag). He just seemed to be able to get his shots off first all the time and it was so annoying. When I fell behind I tried to counter with big combos, but should have known better not to bother when the screen is jumping around all over the place.

The top player in the UK is a sagat player. He is not mago or ojisan, but still an advanced player. There are comps every Sunday in London. Main problem is they are the other side of London from me (which takes 2 hours minimum). Will make the effort one weekend, but when I am already in the middle of London and half way there. Its the only way to really know how good you are.

Any advice on the throwing game. Dont use them enough, but would appreciate some good set ups to add these in?

[bebithanos]

It's cool to see other players throw out what there weaknesses are and ask for help. I don't have perfect execution but I think it's pretty good and I constantly practice B&B's and FADC > f.HK > Ultra and hit 2/3 times. The thing that does evade me alot is ex TU > Ultra. Timing so strict ;_; but my weakness is taking everything I can do pretty well in Training. Moving what I learn from there against another person is the problem I have. Sometimes I sort of tense up etc. and just do crazy things. I lost to a Ryu yesterday too came back and crushed him XD. But maybe I am just expecting to play like Daigo or something could be the issue. But anyone can spar with me and share tips would be awesome.

GG's to all

[neemo6]

Im having the most difficult time landing fadc>f.Hk, also it seems like i can only land ex tu>ultra on certain characters. I start the buffer for ex tu>ultra probably at the top of the uppercut is this to later and reason why im whiffing the ultra?

[TAMANAPANTS]

Start the buffer after the last hit. For a visual idea look at the opponents health bar and you will see flashes shoot across it indicating each hit. I was doing what you are and I don't think it registers the start of your buffer if hits are still landing.

On your dash cancel to f.hk, this will sound daft but dont rush. Spend some time first just doing TU to FADC, do not worry about anything else as this in my opinion is actually the toughest bit. Once you get that nailed move on to try the f.hk after the TU ->FADC only. The best thing is to TU->FADC.....then let your stick/pad go to neutral before doing the f.hk. As soon as the f.hk lands do your ultra. Stick with this. Only on Wednesday/Thursday I was having a shocker with these in training mode. Just shut down my xbox and was doing them 6-7 times out of 10. Have hit a few in matches although I do tighten up and whiff it loads in games.

Just love the way this game keeps giving. What seems impossible, with some hard work, starts to become second nature. I am learning that it is not all about big combos though. Got hammered by someone who was strong at pokes, block strings and combos from them. Taught me that you need a bit of everything and I have taken my eye of the ball just trying to nail the money shots, so this week I will be working on my link and chain combos to improve my pressuring game.

[U-Volt]

OK, so this weekend was filled with SFIV practice. I had 2 friends from out of town stay over last night, we watch the UFC fight and played SFIV for hours. They are the same people that I beat up online, and have never lost a match to, but I take what I can get.

I have really worked standing HK into my arsenal. It is my main anti-air now, and even a main poke against certain characters like Abel (oh, how he HATES the s. HK roll counter).

C. mk-->tiger shot is also being practiced and used with success a lot, even if i link it from a j. HK a bit too much.

I'm still having issues with when opponents stop jumping in on me and start rushing me down. It always seems like when I poke, they always counter. The tip about ALWAYS linking a blocked c. mk to a tiger shot may give me a bit more distance to work with. For the life of me, I cant make s. LK effective, or any other combo really yet, but hopefully it will come in time. C. MK --> Tiger shot is a good one to start off with and master when to use it, from what I can tell.

I will take everyone's advice, just as I have been doing, and especially the shortcut for srk inputs Pistol gave. I actually hit FADC -> f. hk quite a few times in training yesterday before my friends arrived, but the ultra at the end I still need to work on. Baby steps.....

I was wondering one thing...obviously s. HK has a lot more range as an AA than a TU, but should I still use TU as an AA when the opponent jump a bit further in? Like, does it do more damage than the s. HK?

I'll be adding a few of you to my x360 friends list soon here. I don't have it on PS3, though :( . Thanks again for the tips, keep em coming. We need like a Sagat learners workshop in which we all try to get decent with another character, while keeping Sagat as our main, with the intention of using the other character to train each others Sagat skills :D . I'm only half kidding here, b/c I'd be down as hell for that if anyone agreed. Together, my brethren, we will take over the world....1 eyepatch at a time!!! :nunchuck:

[U-Volt]

Just love the way this game keeps giving. What seems impossible, with some hard work, starts to become second nature. I am learning that it is not all about big combos though. Got hammered by someone who was strong at pokes, block strings and combos from them. Taught me that you need a bit of everything and I have taken my eye of the ball just trying to nail the money shots, so this week I will be working on my link and chain combos to improve my pressuring game.

Looks like you posted at the same time as me, dude. Just had to say....QFT on this right here. Is it just my SF fanboyism talking, or is this my favorite game to come out on this gen of consoles yet? I've had all 3 since each respective release date, and I can't recall being this engrossed in a game since CVS2 back on the original Xbox. I'll stop gushing now, just had to throw that out there :woot: .

[neemo6]

Im still having a hell of a time landing f.hk after a fadc, actually im having a hell of a time landing anything after a fadc, hehe.

[TAMANAPANTS]

Neemo and U-Volt - On your FADC to f.hk you have to let the stick go to neutral as I mentioned above. I found that when I was getting it wrong, I was rushing under my opponent. Another method is to hold the the second direction push of the DC so you are already primed to hit the f.hk. To practice your f.hk to ultra, set the computer in training to jump then just do the f.hk to ultra without worrying about the TU FADC bit. Once you get these down it will start to come together. I got there in the end by breaking it down:

1) Practice TU ->FADC on its own
2)Practice FADC->f.hk on its own and dont even worry about hitting the computer but getting the motion right.
3) Practice f.hk to ultra on a jumping opponent. You will juggle them and then ultra.

I found this got my timing for the 3 parts right and then I put them together.

U-Volt, on your anti air questions s.hk is a good weapon when the opponent is jumping from mid range (so they would land their attack right on top of your head). If they come from further away and have already put out their attack it will trade or you will loose the exchange and then they can sweep or follow up (I find this alot against Ryu/Ken players). If they are coming from afar, block the first attack and the following ones as 9/10 they go for a sweep, DP, block string or throw and you can counter (easier said than done I know). If they jump from close then prepare for a cross up and dont throw out the kick. Again as a training tip, pick a charachter and record jump in fierce attacks and then play it back and position yourself at different ranges to see what works, what trades and what fails. l.TU are also good.

I also struggle when rushed and I think this comes down to fighting faster charachters. I am also looking to get some advice on this although I have read some stuff on Pistol Shrimps thread about some defences.

Last but not least, it is not fanboyism, with my remarks about the game. I had not picked up a SF game since my SNES days, but have put silly hours into this and have not done so for any other game apart from GTA4 since getting it. The best bit is it fits with my lifestyle - as I get 60-90 minutes a day at best to play. I get alot out of it in such a short time and dont need to get bogged down in story arcs...etc, but see the improvement in my game.

Please feel free to add me on Xbox live.

[Sirmeikymiles]

sry for that really stupid question but what does FADC mean?

[bebithanos]

Focus Attack Dash Cancel. Might wanna move that question to the Sagat Question Thread next time. Or there is a n00b thread that you should read through if you have questions like those.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=175846 Beginner Thread

[Pistol Shrimp]

I was wondering one thing...obviously s. HK has a lot more range as an AA than a TU, but should I still use TU as an AA when the opponent jump a bit further in? Like, does it do more damage than the s. HK?


Because if you counter hit with a tiger uppercut anti-air, it's free ultra.

If you trade with an uppercut, sometimes you recover fast enough to ultra.

And mostly because you can't link standing hk to ultra. :P

And you always want to be able to ultra. Shit ya ultra!

I'm seconding Dhalsim, so there's my contribution.

[neemo6]

1) Practice TU ->FADC on its own
2)Practice FADC->f.hk on its own and dont even worry about hitting the computer but getting the motion right.
3) Practice f.hk to ultra on a jumping opponent. You will juggle them and then ultra.

I found this got my timing for the 3 parts right and then I put them together.

Last but not least, it is not fanboyism, with my remarks about the game. I had not picked up a SF game since my SNES days, but have put silly hours into this and have not done so for any other game apart from GTA4 since getting it. The best bit is it fits with my lifestyle - as I get 60-90 minutes a day at best to play. I get alot out of it in such a short time and dont need to get bogged down in story arcs...etc, but see the improvement in my game.

Please feel free to add me on Xbox live.

Awesome stuff Tamana! Thanks for the help that exactly what im going to do, and I have to totally agree w/ you on putting in the time w/ this game. I have always loved fighting games but never got so in depth into any video game as much as this one. If you would have told me that I would be training more than actually playing, I wouldve been like "youre crazy, why even waste my money" but the thing is, I totally enjoy it! Even just training its crazy to hear and even say.

[Pistol Shrimp]

Cause it's totally satisfying to hit someone with a combo into ultra, and then have them be scared of you doing it again EVERYTIME you play haha.

[magnumx23]

Also, about that s. lk:
I think it's a good idea to add s.lk>low TS into your repertoire. its a nice change c.mk>low TS. plus it looks hella misleading as you're hitting low from a standing position.

[U-Volt]

::SIGH::

So, my skills are slowly getting better with practice. I can FADC TU's into f. RH -> Ultra pretty easily, and my poke combos are getting better too. My AA game is infinitely better than it was as well.

So of COURSE my xbox had to die for the 3rd time today....why wouldn't it?? So I'll be waiting on M$ to ship me a new(refurbished POS) one and wait for that one to die as well. I dunno why I'm posting this, but I just had to get it out b/c I'm super pissed about it. I will see you all in 2 weeks or however long it takes the jackasses this time.

Should I spend money on another copy for PS3? Hmmmmm.........

[neemo6]

That totally sux, I feel youre pain. I havent got another 360 after my 2nd one died and after warranty.

[Chop]

Expect a friend invite from me U Volt.

I am in the exact same boat as you. I know I need a stick to do the more complex combos, still saving up this semester for one.

[ayz]

yeah same here. i can FADC->f.HK in training mode, but come match time on live i whiff all the damn time. i think it may be in part due to some lag, since half the time i can't FADC out of the TU. problem is i watch the TU hit before i FADC (try to time it visually) so maybe i need to just go ahead and use the input

i also tend to whiff if it's in a combo. if i just TU i can fadc, if it jump in HK -> c.MK -> TU then for some reason i can never fadc in time. takes practice i guess.

also, what do you guys use for combo starters? sagat doesn't rush in very quickly, and most jump-ins get countered unless the other guy is retarded and spams fireballs. do you kara knee in, do a block string, then try to start a combo or what?

[TAMANAPANTS]

U-Volt, unlucky on the xbox. I think I must be one of the lucky few who have not had my 360 die, although saying that now is like the kiss of death for sure.

Ayz, converting training skills to game skills is an art and will come with time. I still whiff a load of Ex TU to Ultra and TU, FADC, f.hk to Ultra in game, but less than I did even a week ago and the fact I am trying them says loads to me about how far my game has come in a short time. Keep trying and it and you will get it. When I am in the heat of a fight, plenty of things dont go like they did in training, but the more I put myself on the line the less frantic my game becomes. Once you know how to do it there is no amount of tips in my opinion that can get you to nail it in game apart from repetition and hard work.

On your combo starters I try the following and mix them up:

Close - block strings with c.lp or c.lk/slk into low tiger shot or low tiger knee as the recovery time is better than doing everything fierce. I try to throw from time to time also. One final tip is just throw out your overhead for a quick hit and damage. Loads of players crouch and defend and soon change that tactic if you hit them a few times with your overhead.

Jump ins - With sagat this is tougher than some other opponents as he is not that quick and does not have a great leap. I never jump in with a fierce kick (unless it is blatantly on). I use lk or mp as these seem to trade better and are less risky. if you have the right range cross up with a lk as this hits perfectly to add 2-4 more hits.

Kara knee is not advised at distance especially against a shoto. Close the gap by either FADC through attacks - no more than twice at a time though (works really well against shotos and Dahlsim). low tiger shot (weak or medium version) followed with a low or medium tiger knee as the tiger shot is still travelling. Your opponent will be too bothered about getting out of the way or defending most times, if they jump over the tiger shot your knee will trade or hit. only an EX fireball/move will stop you, but they need to throw early it to cancel your shot.

Hope that all makes sense.

[beraht]

tamanapants, do you ever kara tiger knee then? If so, when do you pull out the move?

[TAMANAPANTS]

I use it as a mix up (but only if I am ahead). If your oponnent is downed from an Ex shot and you want to close the gap quickly then use it. Also you can use it on wake up (your opponent is downed) as a surprise attack as most people expect something else if you are half screen or more. It is risky on the whole though and with the sagat videos I have seen of top players, I dont see it being used much.

Kara moves are really best for charachters that can Kara throw, which as far I am aware, sagat cannot do.

[warpzealot]

On your combo starters I try the following and mix them up:

Close - block strings with c.lp or c.lk/slk into low tiger shot or low tiger knee as the recovery time is better than doing everything fierce. I try to throw from time to time also. One final tip is just throw out your overhead for a quick hit and damage. Loads of players crouch and defend and soon change that tactic if you hit them a few times with your overhead.

Jump ins - With sagat this is tougher than some other opponents as he is not that quick and does not have a great leap. I never jump in with a fierce kick (unless it is blatantly on). I use lk or mp as these seem to trade better and are less risky. if you have the right range cross up with a lk as this hits perfectly to add 2-4 more hits.

Kara knee is not advised at distance especially against a shoto. Close the gap by either FADC through attacks - no more than twice at a time though (works really well against shotos and Dahlsim). low tiger shot (weak or medium version) followed with a low or medium tiger knee as the tiger shot is still travelling. Your opponent will be too bothered about getting out of the way or defending most times, if they jump over the tiger shot your knee will trade or hit. only an EX fireball/move will stop you, but they need to throw early it to cancel your shot.

Hope that all makes sense.

Good advice. When moving in on a shoto or someone with a fireball, I find the safest way to move in is to fireball spam and when the opponent has to duck/block the fireball, dash forward once and repeat. You can easily back people into the corner this way, forcing them to make a move against you or just eating corner pressure. Right now I'm practicing kara tiger shot to move in but its still really iffy. The input I'm using is :r: :lk: neutral :hcf: :lk:.
When you dash too early after dp fadc and can't land a :r: :hk: because you end up behind them, just ultra w/o the :r: :hk: and the startup time for the ultra will be long enough for the opponent to fall back in front of you. I know :r: :hk: adds good damage to the combo, but I find that when I'm pressured and have to pull off a dp fadc, I always dash too quickly. With this method I can land the ultra 100% of the time. Once you get good at timing in the :r: :hk: you should also look at practicing his ultra crossup shown here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnqD6I1Lo0k . You can do the "crossup" anywhere even without a corner so it is possible to escape a corner AND place the opponent into the corner with one combo! To do the crossup just charge to level 2 FA and then dash cancel. "No reverse motion necessary"

Most importantly, practice overhead crossup j.lk into c.lk, c.lk, c.lp xx hp tiger uppercut. Damage, wakeup pressure, crossup, and possible tick throws all from one combo.

[x Z 3 2 x]

Good advice. When moving in on a shoto or someone with a fireball, I find the safest way to move in is to fireball spam and when the opponent has to duck/block the fireball, dash forward once and repeat. You can easily back people into the corner this way, forcing them to make a move against you or just eating corner pressure. Right now I'm practicing kara tiger shot to move in but its still really iffy. The input I'm using is :r: :lk: neutral :hcf: :lk:.
When you dash too early after dp fadc and can't land a :r: :hk: because you end up behind them, just ultra w/o the :r: :hk: and the startup time for the ultra will be long enough for the opponent to fall back in front of you. I know :r: :hk: adds good damage to the combo, but I find that when I'm pressured and have to pull off a dp fadc, I always dash too quickly. With this method I can land the ultra 100% of the time. Once you get good at timing in the :r: :hk: you should also look at practicing his ultra crossup shown here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnqD6I1Lo0k . You can do the "crossup" anywhere even without a corner so it is possible to escape a corner AND place the opponent into the corner with one combo! To do the crossup just charge to level 2 FA and then dash cancel. "No reverse motion necessary"

Most importantly, practice overhead crossup j.lk into c.lk, c.lk, c.lp xx hp tiger uppercut. Damage, wakeup pressure, crossup, and possible tick throws all from one combo.

I find it easier to perform kara LTS with :r::lk: :uf::u::ub::hcf::k: 360 motion.

[Chop]

Tamanapants, are you using a stick or controller?

[TAMANAPANTS]

Madcatz TE stick.

[warpzealot]

I find it easier to perform kara LTS with :r::lk: :uf::u::ub::hcf::k: 360 motion.

Thanks, I haven't tried this yet; I'll test it out when I get the chance. How often do you get the LTS instead of the knee? Can you do this 95% of the time? I can barely do it 25% of the time doing the notation I posted. Does it have anything to do with the # of frames between the :r: and :df:? or # of frames in neutral?

[U-Volt]

YAY

I finally got my Xbox back today :D :D :D . Been doing pretty good online all day, although I really need to work on ultra setups still. My FADC ultra setups are perfect in training, but I need to start taking chances and doing them online.

Still waiting for those TE sticks to hit stores again so I can really step my game up. Even though, I'm sure I will SUCK as I'm going through the learning curve. Tamana, do you use the square gate or did you go with an octo for your TE stick? Just curious...

Hit me up online if you want some practice...see ya!

[neemo6]

Glad to hear Uvolt, ya i can land TU>fdac>f+hk>ultra all day in training but have yet to land it in an online game. Yet im still having issues w/ the timing for the ex TU>ultra, i can land it about maybe 50% of the time. I need to be alot more consistent w/ it.

[TAMANAPANTS]

U Volt, glad to see you back. I have a square gate. Do they do them with with both? I just got what came to me. Its miles more forgiving than the Hori Ex2 I started with. That had a square gate too, but its bigger so you have to be more precise and doing tiger shots with it took a bit of time. The TE flows really nicely on the other hand.

The stick will help you with your FADC Ultras and Ex to Ultra no doubt, but dont think it will solve your problems wholesale. It will help you get to the next level, but practice is still the key.


For online games dont try to run before you can walk. I have taken the route of doing the TU, FADC and missing out the f.HK and going straight to Ultra. A little less damage, but loads of damage nonetheless, a bit more time and the feeling you get after doing it is great. Once I get this sorted (I still mess up way more than I get it), I will add the kick in because it will seem a lot easier.

I found I was too worried about using it and kept it safe, but that would mean I stay at the level I am and just show off in training. I have lost some fights trying it more, that I would not normally loose, but have started to not worry about win %. There are loads of really casual players out there and you spot an easy opponent if you want to play one. Once the competition download comes then it will really show who the top players are and give a more natural progression for people. Dont know about you guys but I would have more satisfaction by qualifying for a higher tier than having a great win percentage.

Neemo, I find finishing the ultra motion and hitting the three buttons the second Sagat is set with both feet on the ground that it works best. I was trying to do this by looking at my opponent and the height they were at. I missed loads that way, so make sure you keep your eye on sagat. Also dont start the ultra motion until the last hit of the ultra has finished.

Last but not least, can you play online in training? I have looked and dont see how, but I might be missing something obvious. If you cannot do this they should try and find a way. I would love to have that function. You could try loads of different scenarios out without messing about with the record mode.

[U-Volt]

U Volt, glad to see you back. I have a square gate. Do they do them with with both? I just got what came to me. Its miles more forgiving than the Hori Ex2 I started with. That had a square gate too, but its bigger so you have to be more precise and doing tiger shots with it took a bit of time. The TE flows really nicely on the other hand.

The stick will help you with your FADC Ultras and Ex to Ultra no doubt, but dont think it will solve your problems wholesale. It will help you get to the next level, but practice is still the key.


For online games dont try to run before you can walk. I have taken the route of doing the TU, FADC and missing out the f.HK and going straight to Ultra. A little less damage, but loads of damage nonetheless, a bit more time and the feeling you get after doing it is great. Once I get this sorted (I still mess up way more than I get it), I will add the kick in because it will seem a lot easier.

I found I was too worried about using it and kept it safe, but that would mean I stay at the level I am and just show off in training. I have lost some fights trying it more, that I would not normally loose, but have started to not worry about win %. There are loads of really casual players out there and you spot an easy opponent if you want to play one. Once the competition download comes then it will really show who the top players are and give a more natural progression for people. Dont know about you guys but I would have more satisfaction by qualifying for a higher tier than having a great win percentage.

Neemo, I find finishing the ultra motion and hitting the three buttons the second Sagat is set with both feet on the ground that it works best. I was trying to do this by looking at my opponent and the height they were at. I missed loads that way, so make sure you keep your eye on sagat. Also dont start the ultra motion until the last hit of the ultra has finished.

Last but not least, can you play online in training? I have looked and dont see how, but I might be missing something obvious. If you cannot do this they should try and find a way. I would love to have that function. You could try loads of different scenarios out without messing about with the record mode.


I know you can easily swap out gates on most sticks, but I thought I heard the gate on the TE stick is adjustable to both square and octo. I could be very wrong. And believe me...I don't think that sticks will magically make me better, I just know they will help me with the thing you mentioned (FADC etc.). I do, however, think that once I get adjusted to it I will be able to progress quicker since certain things will be easier to perform.

I too wish you could play online in training. Right now, I have willing friends do certain things with certain characters and let me practice techniques in player matches. Of course, I have to let them beat on me a bit too :P.

I can't WAIT for the CE content to hit. I agree that qualifying for a higher tier would be much more satisfying. Hell, as it is, BP means nothing to me. I fought someone who was at the time rank 19 in the world in BP not too long ago, and I perfected him in the first round, then right as I hit my ultra in the 2nd to finish him he dropped. So yea....BP means NOTHING. I just hope the CE content comes soon and is as fully fleshed out as I'm expecting it to be.

As far as EX TU -> Ultra...I'm still working out the timing as well. It seems as if even after Sagat's feet hit the ground, there is still a timeframe where you cant input the 3K. I'm starting to figure it out and hit it more....just practice like everything else, you'll get it soon Neemo :D

The areas I need improvement the most in right now IMO are:

Combo'ing TU's and TK's instead of LTS all the time (stick will help with this too)
Mid range poke hit confirming into combos.
Knowing when to throw more.
General in-close game (a losing battle w/ Sagat it seems)


Oh yea....and fighting that asshole Vega..... :annoy:

[iGaugE]

For Vega, just feel him out.

What seems to work for me is constant Tiger Shots until he decides to either jump over them, or wall jump.

If Vega decides to wall jump, jump back FP seems to cancel whatever he's trying to do and it's pretty easy to execute. Once you land that two or three times, Vega decides to stay on the ground where you can continue to mix it up with tiger shots or TK's.

More of a camping battle rather than a pressuring battle. (for me, at least)

[TAMANAPANTS]

Not sure if you guys do this, but from last weekend I have decided to only play the game on the hardest level in both training and arcade.

In training I change the charachters I fight against for each session and play defence and attack (5 minutes pure defence, 5 minutes pure attack for example). I am finding I am learning much more about what works against who and at that level the computer really starts to throw in some neat combos and test you (especially when you whiff something). Try this with Vega and you start to get a handle on when you can and cannot attack. I agree with iGuagE that waitng with Vega is a good tactic. By doing this my defence has come on the most to the point I have been getting some A grades for defence in online matches. My major problem defending is defending the throw. I figure if I am hard to beat first I will always have a chance as my offensive game develops. It's never going to be like a human player and the unpreictability, but learning what you counter and what gives you advantages against each player certainly improves you doing this.

On the Sagat in close game, I am learning not to try and stop my opponents block string by putting out an attack myself, as most other charachters (when used well) are quicker at close range and take prioirty. I normally wait for them to finish or for the gap to widen as they land each hit and then counter and put pressure on. Sagat is so mean when it comes to countering. I have noticed with top players on videos I have been watching that they use FA to counter quite often and this seems a good tactic as Sagat has pretty decent health bar if you get tagged and mess up. If you get in though you can cause a whole heap of hurting.