Crouching Turtle Counter

[bloodymurdamo]

What's a good attack to use against crouching turtles with sagat?

[jeenyus1]

Sagat's overhead punch.

Forward + High Punch. (It's pretty slow though)

[bloodymurdamo]

Sagat's overhead punch.

Forward + High Punch. (It's pretty slow though)

Yeah, I hate havin to use it though because of the speed!

[djKun]

Yeah, I hate havin to use it though because of the speed!

If you do it while they're getting up and time it right, you might meaty them with them thinking your going for a low attack. Pretty safe although the startup frames are pretty gay...

Crouching: keep pulling off jabs or kicks and then throw out f+HP or jump in occasionally.

Standing: Low attacks or tick throws.

[x Z 3 2 x]

Here's a tip:

What you wanna do for the first round is "Ume" the opponent and gauge him. In other words, bait them. This is what Daigo does best. If you've watched alot of his videos, he loses the first round. Afterward, he pulls out the reversals and AA because when he retaliates, everything happens too fast and quick, the opponent doesn't have the mental capability to adjust accordingly to his fighting style. He properly gauges his opponents ability to attack/block string timing while fooling them and making them feel so comfortable that they screw up their link timing. You'll also realize that his matches are just quick, dirty, lots of big combos, reversals, and such after the first round.

What I usually do is jHK, (block string), and then end it with the usual LTS (Low Tiger Shot). My preferred string is just to do a cMK > LTS because doing a long fancy block string against a turtle would just end up in a reversal and more pressure to keep your timing right (Well that's my preference since I'm using a normal 360 controller to train myself for Gamestop's Round 3 and it's hard to keep your strings proper with the 360 buttons. Although I can imagine my links and strings would be much more accurate with a joystick etc., so it depends on what you're working with.)

From there on, after the first round I'll probably do a few things. jHK into an overhead, jHK > cMK > Tiger Knee, jHK > cLK > Throw or whatever. The point is to get the opponent to expect a long block string and cut it short into a throw, overhead, or Tiger Knee.

From there on, if the opponent starts to counter my throws, I throw in a TU or cMK > EX LTS.
One thing I must warn you about though is a crossover or regular jump in with LK. Sometimes you're used to doing jHK but press LK by instinct and hit too early, resulting in "you" being vulnerable and open to a throw.


Once you've understood the ground game, the opponent will eventually jump. If the first round "gauge" round takes more than 20-30 seconds on the clock. Don't exchange hits with the TU when they jump. If you do it too often, the opponent no longer jumps and that is one option that you DO NOT want to lose for an Ultra connection. Instead, do a sHK because sometimes you'll hit him, you exchange hits, or you just lose. Once they get confident in jumping in. That's when you exchange the TU > f+HK > Ultra.

Another thing to note about turtle players is that they are very aggressive when you're in the corner. Sometimes I would damage them and force them into offense, retreat a little so that they'd get offensive. When they do, I do my usual block string, cut it short, and throw them into the corner behind me. Turtles like to panic in the corner and when they do, they start jumping or crouch block. That's when you do a jump-in after some tiger shots/AA and do an EX cMK > LTS > Ultra for some punishment.

Hope that helps.

[je110]

Here's a tip:

What you wanna do for the first round is "Ume" the opponent and gauge him. In other words, bait them. This is what Daigo does best. If you've watched alot of his videos, he loses the first round. Afterward, he pulls out the reversals and AA because when he retaliates, everything happens too fast and quick, the opponent doesn't have the mental capability to adjust accordingly to his fighting style. You'll also realize that his matches are just quick, dirty, lots of big combos, reversals, and such.

What I usually do is jHK, (block string), and then end it with the usual LTS (Low Tiger Shot). My preferred string is just to do a cMK > LTS because doing a long fancy block string against a turtle would just end up in a reversal and more pressure to keep your timing right (Well that's my preference since I'm using a normal 360 controller to train myself for Gamestop's Round 3 and it's hard to keep your strings proper with the 360 buttons. Although I can imagine my links and strings would be much more accurate with a joystick etc., so it depends on what you're working with.)

From there on, after the first round I'll probably do a few things. jHK into an overhead, jHK > cMK > Tiger Knee, jHK > cLK > Throw or whatever. The point is to get the opponent to expect a long block string and cut it short into a throw, overhead, or Tiger Knee.

From there on, if the opponent starts to counter my throws, I throw in a TU or cMK > EX LTS.
One thing I must warn you about though is a crossover or regular jump in with LK. Sometimes you're used to doing jHK but press LK by instinct and hit too early, resulting in "you" being vulnerable and open to a throw.

Hope that helps.

Little more jumping in that than I would like, but the general idea is sound: make them expect one thing, give them another.

[jeenyus1]

Little more jumping in that than I would like, but the general idea is sound: make them expect one thing, give them another.

Agreed.

I barely ever jump in this game and I've made it a habit to not UNLESS it's unexpected an a good cross up opportunity. And this is coming from a Ken's 3 player so my first instinct is to jump in all day but jumping too often = death in 4's. (At least I found)

[x Z 3 2 x]

Agreed.

I barely ever jump in this game and I've made it a habit to not UNLESS it's unexpected an a good cross up opportunity. And this is coming from a Ken's 3 player so my first instinct is to jump in all day but jumping too often = death in 4's. (At least I found)

Same here. I forgot to mention that doing all that while the Ultra is flashing is a huge risk. What I'd usually do in a fireball war is to just jump straight up occasionally and screw up the opponents timing. Works really well with turtles like Boxer because he'll probably try to do a Dashing Straight and leave himself open for a LK on the way back down.

[Elliott]

A lot of players are conditioned to block high-low on a jump-in so one thing I have been noticing is working A LOT is j.MK (blocked) straight into throw. Usually they get smart and start to tech but even against pretty good players I can get this to work once.

Sagat's overhead is garbage, IMHO.