Strategies against turtlers?

[isurus]

My friend, know as Silks here, plays good defensive matches against my Fei. For example, he'll pick Rose and turtle/zone me out. I'll win ~30% of my matches against him, with more being possible once I get better at poke combo strings.

But still there's the problem of Fei not walking as quick as he used to in SF2 and trying to get in on people/characters who can zone well. Rose's recovery from fireballs is quick, her c.LK or c.MK > Spiral does good knockback on hit and is very safe on block. Punishing her is hard but punishing Fei after a blocked/whiffed Flame kick is very easy.

I'd like to say that I don't think I'm complaining, and I can see the weaknesses of Fei in these types of match ups. But what are some tips on dealing with this kind of defensive/turtling style with characters that have low-risk moves and good zoning against brawler characters?

[ChromeX]

that spiral combo isnt safe. i know rose players like to think it is and love to tell people it is, but you can jab>rekka it. now idk if thats 100% true cus there may be range games involved in what im saying cus like rekkas are only safe-ish when spaced right so she may be the same, if so the safety of her combo depends on how close she is during the initial blow. my point is go for the reversal everytime and take it when you get it. i dont have much of a problem vs her but also dont have much playtime against good rose, i know the name silks and im sure hes a cut above the rest, at least the ones ive played. my boy who lets me borrow his ps3 for practice plays her and once i get my stick fixed and we can play each other again ill expand on her in my matchup page.

[zirconst]

Without his overhead CW I've had a much harder time dealing with turtlers in SF4 as well. There are a couple options the new Fei has though. Standing MK seems faster now and even though it doesn't combo, it can stop them from crouch-blocking, which gives you more attack options. Baiting with a focus attack and canceling out of it can take people off guard sometimes as well, as they underestimate how quickly you can get out of it and dash towards them.

[DRCsyntax]

I like jumping around almost nonstop.


It's pretty stupid, but effective against most turtles; EX chicken wing through fireballs, try to link from that, then stay within sweep distance to keep pressure on and wait for the mistakes to start showing.

[judge_rl]

they zone me and i can't get in...

universal adaptation to opponents who zone you somewhat effectively:

1. watch their actions and try to respond to what happens more than just doing and hoping they don't realize what you're trying to hit them with
(e.g., fireball spam...watch their timing and when they tend to shoot to get in; ranged normal spam...the same applies here as you should watch the recovery of certain normals, but also remember that you can reversal the hitboxes in certain situations (e.g., opponent sticks out s.roundhouse that stretches across the screen, and you reverse it by catching their extended limb with a dp)

2. condition your opponent...when u do manage to get in you need to start building your 'resume' early, meaning play with some mix-up attempts and see how they respond. feel free to repeat or mix up on your own notion

3. don't rush it...oftentimes you give away free damage when u get too hasty to get in vs a decent zoner...block more than normally and play the thinking game. do things that strengthen your chances of doing better or more damage in the match-up (e.g., build meter...jump straight up [which in itself is a sort of conditioning because it throws off their timing to respond to your forward jump possibly...move in and out of range])

4. build your knowledge on the recovery of moves and check out some frame data to know when you still have the advantage after certain normals and specials. it's good to know for sure when you have the attacking advantage in tight match-ups

specific sf4 stuff that applies to the above:

*focus...this in itself has to be built into your game. play around with it. activate it, dash out of it (back or forwards)...see how your opponent responds to this type of intimidation and test if they are familiar to fighting it

fei long's main meter builder fullscreen is rdp (lk flame kick)...if they stay fullscreen away from you and don't want to come close, build ex and build revenge meter by focusing fbs and normals alike

play the mindgame and learn your opponent. build solid offensive tactics. work on your execution so that when you do get your hit, you don't fuck up your dmging combos. be unorthodox in times to just throw them off (e.g., jump in roundhouse, neutral jump fierce, land, cr.jab/short, cr.jab/short, forward jump with the j.forward cross-up) -> just keep them in a situation that will tend to build some sort of unfamiliarity

also, learn your counters and your max range for certain moves. you are already strengthening your chances in this match-up by having a rose to play, so watch what happens and try to adapt.

good luck

[ChromeX]

^^ all good points xept 4. "build your knowledge on the recovery of moves and check out some frame data to know when you still have the advantage after certain normals and specials. it's good to know for sure when you have the attacking advantage in tight match-ups". i say this only because youll see in the fei frame data thread that every rekka is totally unsafe, but frame data for these kinds of special moves is actually ambiguous and range specific, like cammys drill, roses drill thingy, and the previously mentioned, feis rekkas. i mean its still a decent point hes making just take into account that frame data isnt 100% in this game.