View Full Version : LP reflect and what it does
purifyweirdsoul
03-11-2009, 09:01 PM
So, take LP reflects whenever you can get them. I imagine many new Rose players are unaware of the somewhat obscure properties of this move. There's also something new (to me at least) that I found interesting.
They add damage to your projectiles and give you meter. The boost in damage isn't huge, but it's interesting and thankfully present. For normal Soul Spark, the damage increases by 4 at each absorb, up from 80 to 104. This is after 6 reflects.
EX Soul Spark's base damage is 130 and increases up to 176 after 7 reflects.
Most significant, in my opinion, is her super. Its base damage is an unremarkable 300, but can get to 407 by absorbing 7 projectiles. Even after scaling, this could add a good 60-80 damage to your combos involving super.
Re: meter, it adds almost half a stock, approximately 49% to your meter (i.e. half an EX).
Also interesting regarding LP soul spark, you can do it full screen away, FADC, dash twice, and reflect it yourself. This will throw the SS backwards (MP), up over your head behind you (HP) or you can suck it in for giggles (LP). Say you FADC'd your soul spark to get in on someone but they're going to jump over you as you dash...by reflecting the spark, you can theoretically continue offense. I haven't done this in a match myself.
I just realized the latter bit today, still want to do some experimenting with it and see if any new combo opps open up.
videos of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTm47wFd9CQ&feature=channel_page
Fake crossup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZwl4VT6XnY&feature=channel_page
i assume the damage increase is for only one spark and not indefinitely? and killing someone with your own reflected spark would be the most hilarious win Rose could get IMO.
Rorshock
03-11-2009, 09:51 PM
Really? Interesting, I hadn't noticed that before...
To training mode!
Shinkuu Tatsumaki
03-11-2009, 10:07 PM
7 reflects......
zalbain
03-11-2009, 10:09 PM
lol? That is interesting that you could reflect your own SS.
Thanks for the info about beefing up her SS, didn't know about that
News to me. The meter building was there since the Alpha games, but not the damage boost for the Soul Spark.
I've rarely used the Soul Reflect when playing Rose, so this tip is quite helpful in making more use of it.
purifyweirdsoul
03-12-2009, 05:04 AM
i assume the damage increase is for only one spark and not indefinitely? and killing someone with your own reflected spark would be the most hilarious win Rose could get IMO.
Yes, as soon as you throw a normal spark/EX/super, the damage increase stops stacking. Also pretty sure that this doesn't carry over between rounds, but I haven't had the chance to test that yet. I'll be playing around with this some more after Final Round.
And yep, SEVEN reflects. That's close to full meter lol.
Damage addition is quite little imo, you should store your spark for a confirmed combo to maximize the use, but that rids you of random sparks. Not really worth the damage and effort put into it.
reflecting your own sparks though is funny. Looks like a programming bug to me :)
Roogle
03-12-2009, 09:49 AM
News to me. The meter building was there since the Alpha games, but not the damage boost for the Soul Spark.
Actually, the damage boost for Soul Spark has been a concept since day one in Street Fighter Alpha.
It is relatively minor because the damage boost has always been for a single Soul Spark, but it is a known property because it allows Rose to have a 100% custom combo in Street Fighter Alpha 2 because the single Soul Spark damage boost carries over for the duration of the custom combo. This lets Rose simply kill someone regardless of their life with a Soul Spark barrage during custom combo if she has absorbed a certain amount of projectiles.
If Street Fighter IV follows the same concept, then the Soul Spark damage boost will not carry over from round to round. The execution of the move will cancel the damage boost regardless of whether the spark actually comes out.
It looks like they added the damage boost to the Aura Soul Spark, too — I am pretty sure that there was no damage boost to Aura Soul Spark from all this, so that might be something that makes this something a little more than a minor note of trivia.
tapoh
03-12-2009, 11:42 AM
Also interesting regarding LP soul spark, you can do it full screen away, FADC, dash twice, and reflect it yourself. This will throw the SS backwards (MP), up over your head behind you (HP) or you can suck it in for giggles (LP). Say you FADC'd your soul spark to get in on someone but they're going to jump over you as you dash...by reflecting the spark, you can theoretically continue offense. I haven't done this in a match myself.
Haha, I have to do that simply to see how odd that must look in motion.
First To 5 Wins
03-12-2009, 04:57 PM
I've been adding more reflects to my Rose game lately. I've got this stigma where I'm only using the LP version against Guile for some reason. I don't know why. I will make sure to incorporate it against more characters now that I know it absorbs.
Walk up Rose is a fucking BEAST, I tell you.
xero15
03-12-2009, 07:20 PM
i just thought about some dirty stuff i could setup
Can you not FADC reflects? I was trying to juggle a spark back and forth, but couldnt backdash fast enough.
ellesd
03-12-2009, 09:52 PM
Damage addition is quite little imo, you should store your spark for a confirmed combo to maximize the use, but that rids you of random sparks. Not really worth the damage and effort put into it.
You're looking at this one dimensionally. Nothing in the game builds meter across the screen as fast as jab reflect. This builds meter at an alarming rate, there isn't a single fireball character in the game that can get one EX bar with fireballs before you get full super meter. Most of them can barely reach half an EX bar before you get full meter.
At the start of the game, when EX fireballs aren't available to your opponent, this gives Rose an incredible advantage, shutting down any fb zoning of just about half the cast. Stop their fireballs, establish a strong ground presence with footsies, and they'll be jumping in on you in no time. [edit]Hell, when they do have EX meter you can use the fact you've conditioned them to think you'll absorb to make them waste meter by baiting... but that's just a little food for thought.
Building meter so you can hit your super, EX moves, and FADC is way more practical than trying to zone them with a horizontal/diagonal reflect, IMO. Of course those have their uses, but it's really hard to just overlook this special.
You're looking at this one dimensionally. Nothing in the game builds meter across the screen as fast as jab reflect. This builds meter at an alarming rate, there isn't a single fireball character in the game that can get one EX bar with fireballs before you get full super meter. Most of them can barely reach half an EX bar before you get full meter.
For the record: I wasnt talking about meter building, but about damage addition and applying that damage. Meter building is good, relying on the extra damage is useless.
Rable
03-13-2009, 04:42 AM
The added damage by absorption for the super is 17 points, wich is not so bad. The problem is that to save it for the super, you must not throw any fireball and that will handicap Rose's game.
Maybe if Rose absorbs a whole bunch of fireballs it could be interesting to save it.
xero15
03-13-2009, 07:47 AM
it doesnt take away from here game at all. if you have it and can combo with it then by all means do it but her power comes from the fact she has meter now. if you keep building up meter then hurt them with something fierce then they know not to feed you meter anymore but she still gets incredible meter from her block strings mixed with whiffing reflect from a distance so its now in your favor. dont look at the reflect as a way to power up the fireball but moreso to power up rose.
Nobody is saying LP reflect is useless, some are saying that building up damage with it and is quite useless.
tapoh
03-13-2009, 08:05 AM
Wait, so, just to be clear, the power up effect only last until the next Soul Spark/Aura Soul Spark, right? And definitely not between rounds, yes?
The Osprey
03-13-2009, 08:08 AM
Wait, so, just to be clear, the power up effect only last until the next Soul Spark/Aura Soul Spark, right? And definitely not between rounds, yes?
yes. also adds damage to EX SS BTW.
xero15
03-13-2009, 08:15 AM
Nobody is saying LP reflect is useless, some are saying that building up damage with it and is quite useless.
i was just clearing it up for those who would choose not to do it because they would rather rely on the fireballs rather than the meter.
The Osprey
03-13-2009, 08:21 AM
Don't know if this should be mentioned here or not, as I'm sure its in the move attribute sticky, but the LP soul reflect throws the opponent to the other side of the screen. It can be comboed when your VERY close with c.MP. It has slow start-up and questionable priority, so use at your own risk. Not the most useful thing in the world, but you can create some distance with it every now and again.
Don't know if this should be mentioned here or not, as I'm sure its in the move attribute sticky, but the LP soul reflect throws the opponent to the other side of the screen. It can be comboed when your VERY close with c.MP. It has slow start-up and questionable priority, so use at your own risk. Not the most useful thing in the world, but you can create some distance with it every now and again.
I find it best to combo c. hp to reflect
I find it best to combo c. hp to reflect
True, and when with HP reflect it goes easily into super
xero15
03-13-2009, 11:26 PM
aight someone needs to test this out. i did the soul reflect after fadc my own fireball when the fireball hit it forced the computer around so where as they were facing me their backs were now turned to me. i kept trying to link a jab into something with no avail BUT this raised my eye to wondering do they have to block the fireball backwards if i do that? if so that PROBABLY set some stuff up but its not something that seems reliable just yet.
deadfrog
03-14-2009, 04:08 PM
Also interesting regarding LP soul spark, you can do it full screen away, FADC, dash twice, and reflect it yourself. This will throw the SS backwards (MP), up over your head behind you (HP) or you can suck it in for giggles (LP).
This is very possibly the coolest silly thing ever in a fighting game. The first time I saw it, I could barely believe it was in the game. :lol:
Radiantsilvergun3
03-14-2009, 05:01 PM
Man OP I'm all for someone reppin Valkyrie Profile but your AV is fucking annoying.
l-XandeR-l
03-14-2009, 06:04 PM
FADCing the LP SS is AMAZING guys. It's just like Guile's LP Sonic Boom. You can follow it and do anything you want to the guy.
If he blocks low, grab him.
If he blocks high, start a combo low or cross him up.
If he throws a different projectile, ultra him.
If he jumps, ninja reflect it backwards or Soul Throw.
LOTS of possibilities and, since her bar builds so fast, it's easy to get enough bar to do this relatively consistently.
EDIT: Example of crazy fun use of this: LP Spark, FADC, dash x2, FP, Ultra
purifyweirdsoul
03-15-2009, 10:24 PM
Man OP I'm all for someone reppin Valkyrie Profile but your AV is fucking annoying.
It's an old injoke thing, the annoyingness was intentional.
xero15, good shit, that's the kind of thing I wanted to try. We've gotta use every tool we've got, and I think this has some degree of potential. Maybe.
As far as the damage increase being useless, no it's not WOAH AMAZING but it's helping us. I mean yeah, don't be like "I'mma do nothing but try to absorb 7 fireballs so I can get full super dmg", but just sucking in one or two near the end of the match could be the difference between killing somebody with a combo or not. It's extra damage. It's not enormous, but it's not cosmetic either. I don't see us writing them a letter saying how we don't like our attacks hurting people a little more. It's as good as it needs to be.
Blitzbeater
03-16-2009, 02:10 AM
I have a question regarding the damage increase, does damage, knockdown or any other effects cause you to lose the bonus before you release it?
Kersey
03-16-2009, 05:05 AM
Also interesting regarding LP soul spark, you can do it full screen away, FADC, dash twice, and reflect it yourself. This will throw the SS backwards (MP), up over your head behind you (HP) or you can suck it in for giggles (LP). Say you FADC'd your soul spark to get in on someone but they're going to jump over you as you dash...by reflecting the spark, you can theoretically continue offense. I haven't done this in a match myself.
I wonder if this will beat crossups. Seems like it could be too good to be true...block: eat my crossup, jump over: get hit anyway/frame disadvantage, jump straight up: get shamwowed. Naaah...
Roogle
03-16-2009, 01:27 PM
I mean yeah, don't be like "I'mma do nothing but try to absorb 7 fireballs so I can get full super dmg", but just sucking in one or two near the end of the match could be the difference between killing somebody with a combo or not. It's extra damage. It's not enormous, but it's not cosmetic either. I don't see us writing them a letter saying how we don't like our attacks hurting people a little more. It's as good as it needs to be.
I think that it is mostly cosmetic. The thing that would make this game changing is if the Soul Spark increase was permanent throughout the round or the match. I have been playing as Rose in other games for years and the Soul Spark absorption has made a noticeable difference in maybe 1% of all the matches I've ever fought as Rose, maybe even less - it's very situational and, if you're at the point where you're plotting on how to use the damage increase by absorption technique, you're probably going to beast the opponent anyway.
Soul Spark has never been a very good projectile by itself. It used to have special properties that literally pushed the opponent away, but it seems like those were taken out. Now we're left with a pretty mediocre projectile that does its job okay, but I just wish it had more oomph.
purifyweirdsoul
03-16-2009, 05:08 PM
Very true. It's better to have it than not was my point, but you're right.
xero15
03-17-2009, 06:15 PM
ok i dont have a stick yet so im tryin my hardest to test out my theory on 360 pad :arazz: but off the top of my you could probably do this on wakeup if they dont tech the get up but it uses a full meter for very little damage :sad:
lp soul spark SADC dash twice mp reflect SADC dash back crossup mk shp hk drill.
assuming my theory correct... the fireball will turn them around on hit the crossup will need to be blocked the way they are turned AFTER being hit if fuckin reflect recovered fast enough you wouldnt need two SADCs but eh its something im working on.
zhangzheng
03-17-2009, 07:11 PM
LP absorb is only for reg. 1 hit fbs correct? so I cant absorb akumas fierce 3-hit fb, or gouken's charged fb?
Zakuta
03-17-2009, 10:49 PM
I always reflect my own fireball when I have the chance...I killed someone with it when they weren't expecting it ad it was complete luls.
I've also combo'd j.mk > reflected fireball > cross-up j.mk it a match for victory.
It's great~
Yeah, if you watch those old matches of me playing Rose in the other thread you see me do it a couple of times...only I absorb, rather than refkect (costs just over 1 bar to complete).
xero15
03-18-2009, 09:35 AM
lp absorbs all fireballs outside of ex ones. so yes akumas metsu fireball can be absorbed but i believe its still only for 4 points of damage.
purifyweirdsoul
03-18-2009, 10:04 AM
fadc silliness
so you can FADC reflects? I hadn't tried that yet, could be quite interesting but yeah, WHOLE SUPER BAR.
Zakuta, so that combo in bold there...you reflected your own spark, turned around, hit somebody with a j.MK, landed as the fireball hit, then jumped again and crossed up with j.MK? That's awesome.
Even if we can't win matches with Rose, we can do awesome meter-wasting setups that do no damage.
Even if we can't win matches with Rose, we can do awesome meter-wasting setups that do no damage.
:rofl::lol::rofl::lol:
xero15
03-18-2009, 08:14 PM
so you can FADC reflects? I hadn't tried that yet, could be quite interesting but yeah, WHOLE SUPER BAR.
Zakuta, so that combo in bold there...you reflected your own spark, turned around, hit somebody with a j.MK, landed as the fireball hit, then jumped again and crossed up with j.MK? That's awesome.
Even if we can't win matches with Rose, we can do awesome meter-wasting setups that do no damage.
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
anyways yes its silliness and a complete waste but for an OH THATS PRINGLES MOMENT i say itd be worth it :lol: im comin up short on tryin to make her work.
epy0nkaru
03-20-2009, 01:50 PM
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
anyways yes its silliness and a complete waste but for an OH THATS PRINGLES MOMENT i say itd be worth it :lol: im comin up short on tryin to make her work.
so rather than find ways to make the general rose game better we're finding ways to make it worse?
i'm down
samma
03-20-2009, 02:30 PM
rofl Rose is great.
xero15
03-21-2009, 12:13 AM
so rather than find ways to make the general rose game better we're finding ways to make it worse?
i'm down
unfortunately the general rose game is going to involve meter for offensive pressure. on the subject of this thread that was just something you could do with a reflected fireball. read what i posted early im tryin to see if she has something useful off of a reflected fireball that will make them have to block a certain way or not.
artillery
03-23-2009, 11:12 AM
crikey, could someone please post some vids of this spark juggling thing?
xero15
03-25-2009, 05:55 PM
what spark juggling?
purifyweirdsoul
03-26-2009, 06:03 AM
reflecting sparks. I recorded some vids yesterday plus a little newish thing I noticed, I'll youtube them tonight or something.
xero15
03-26-2009, 10:56 AM
oh another note which ill put in the other thread as well but i set the computer to all block and did lp spark fadc dash twice reflect it blocked the fireball backwards :tup: tested again and this time attacked around the same time it hit and the computer spazzed flipping back and forth. couldnt settle with that so i switched to dhalsim to see how it would react to ultra teleport s.bhp xx fireball and it spazzed again. i dont know if dhalsims is unblockable or not but if it is and they are sharing this property then rose has a toned down version of an unblockable :shrug: could be useful maybe not.
also with that being said you can double reflect an opponents fireball, not recommended obviously, but fadc the first reflect dash twice like normal then reflect again it causes the same affect. and im sure this is known already also but you can only super cancel reflect on hit or when it actually reflects a fireball just throwing that part in. oh and lastly c.hk doesnt fadc so if its blocked youre screwed pretty much. hopefully some of that was helpful if not then sorry for the long repetitive post. :shrug:
i posted this in the combo section also and figured id put it in here as well since its specific to this. also im looking forward to that vid soul. i cant record due to no equipment but i want to see what you have came up with and see if ive noticed anything similar.
purifyweirdsoul
03-26-2009, 11:15 AM
oh it's nothing special, I just did recorded the inputs for reflecting the sparks in training mode and played them back while I held my camera. I did notice that with certain spacing, the opponent's sprite will block the projectile backwards, but it's not an actual crossup.
xero15
03-26-2009, 11:32 AM
yeah i noticed that part i was more concerned with the fact that maybe the comp blocking backwards was a sign saying the player has to block backwards i have yet been able to test it with a human opponent. if that is the case then maybe when i attack they have to switch blocking the opposite direction another sign i noticed by the spazzing comp reaction. gotta give her something right?
purifyweirdsoul
03-26-2009, 11:45 AM
Well, if you record it and block it yourself, you don't have to switch sides...so I would assume it's the same outside of training mode. But yes, need to test it to make sure.
It's pretty weird. In-game rule is probably that projectiles can't cross up, so the sprite just appears to block it backwards and pushes into you.
xero15
03-26-2009, 11:47 AM
:lol: never thought to do that i obviously was overthinking :lol:
artillery
03-30-2009, 02:01 PM
can someone link a vid to the spark reflect thing?
purifyweirdsoul
03-30-2009, 04:22 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTm47wFd9CQ&feature=channel_page
sorry I didn't up this earlier. The other thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZwl4VT6XnY&feature=channel_page
Pasqual
03-30-2009, 07:22 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTm47wFd9CQ&feature=channel_page
sorry I didn't up this earlier. The other thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZwl4VT6XnY&feature=channel_page
Nice. The fake crossup is gonna wtf some people into eating a followup the first couple times. Hopefully there'll be some discovery that makes both tricks a little more useful in the long run.
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