When Raging Demons Collide

[Elipsis]

In both CvS and 3rd Strike, I'm almost certain that when Raging Demons collided, the second one always won. (Not 2nd player, but whichever one was input last.)

This was useful because you could counter someone's demon with one of your own if you were fast enough.

In SFIV, my friend and I went into training mode and did some experimenting with this and can't for the life of us figure out the rhyme or reason to how the game decides which one wins. In SFIV it appears that:

-Second demon does NOT always win, but sometimes it does.
-First player does NOT always win. Neither does 2nd.
-The player on the right at the time does not always win.
-Super does not always outprioritize Ultra.
-Ultra does not always outpriotize Super.

So how the hell does the game decide which demon wins when two of them collide? It would be nice if the 2nd demon still always one... that way when someone online does a silly demon from too far away I could just counter with my own... but I don't think this is reliable anymore.

Has anybody figured out SFIV's decision making process here?

[raeli]

It's who's power level is highest, duh. Haven't you ever watched DBZ?

[Nives]

they should actually grab each other, growling and glaring, and it should turn into an infinite loop.

actually ... the player who is angrier should win.

[Miz]

It's who's power level is highest, duh. Haven't you ever watched DBZ?

it's over nine thousaaaand!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiMHTK15Pik


seriously though, it might be that the computer gives the shaft to the player with more health. or it might just be random.

[MuKen]

they should actually grab each other, growling and glaring, and it should turn into an infinite loop.

actually ... the player who is angrier should win.

What they should do is instruct the players to engage in hand-to-hand combat and then reward the player that first manages to claw his way back to the cabinet and press start.

[LordofUltima]

It might have to do with health, or perhaps if you're still in invulnerable frames.

[MusclRider]

I'm actually curious about this

[AJR]

It could be that it's based on health and if they're even (which they would be in training mode in most situations) it just randomly selects which Demon (Ultra or Super) to take priority. I'm at work, but I'll check it out when I get home if no one else does.

[pherai]

It's sort of interesting, but I can't imagine someone who throws out demons you could react to with your own demon being so hard that you need to do some research to beat them.

[MuKen]

It's sort of interesting, but I can't imagine someone who throws out demons you could react to with your own demon being so hard that you need to do some research to beat them.

True, but if anyone figures it out, I'm still interested in the answer from a purely academic standpoint. And who knows, the answer might reveal an interesting useful property about the demon.

[nyuro]

thats odd i always thought the second guy won.

well in that case i think the first thing to try is see is a level 2 ultra beats a level one ultra every time or not.

then do lvl 1 ultra vs super and lvl 2 ultra vs super.

other than that i guess you can start messing with how much stun damage people haev (what) or how much health they have.

maybe even how much meter they have . idkkkkk

edit: after testing i cannot find any sort of correlation on anything

[Gamogo]

I think they should collide and get that teched throw animation, followed by them both facing each other, stomping the ground and performing the taunt where the flames rise from their shoulders :D

[fundando]

that is very strange. I was tedting this out today and can't find out how it picks priority

[Joe The Condor]

Who wins the FA fight if you both do it at the same time?

[LordofUltima]

Well, the whole screen should probably just black and get a double K.O, that'd be wicked. That or they sit down and talk about their differences.

[AQUA-PURA]

Edit: Lol^^

[pherai]

That or they sit down and talk about their differences.

I don't think that would be a long discussion since its a mirror match

[West]

I don't think that would be a long discussion since its a mirror match

You transcended your humanity too?! NO WAI!

[AKUMA2000]

You transcended your humanity too?! NO WAI!

:rofl: :rofl:

[Elipsis]

It's sort of interesting, but I can't imagine someone who throws out demons you could react to with your own demon being so hard that you need to do some research to beat them.

I didn't say it was the most important strategy to beat people like that, but it is badass to do to my friends and will serve to backfire in my face if the 2nd demon doesn't always win.


thats odd i always thought the second guy won.

well in that case i think the first thing to try is see is a level 2 ultra beats a level one ultra every time or not.

then do lvl 1 ultra vs super and lvl 2 ultra vs super.

other than that i guess you can start messing with how much stun damage people haev (what) or how much health they have.

maybe even how much meter they have . idkkkkk

edit: after testing i cannot find any sort of correlation on anything

In other games it definitely did... I tested super versus ultra and such and didn't see any correlation either... I never thought of the lifebar and stun damage tests... good ideas but maybe it is just completely random.

[MrTanooki]

If on 360, red ring.
If on Ps3, yellow light.
If on an arcade cabinet, the arcade gets shut down.

Don't risk it.

[exogen]

I assume you did try this in person right? obviously over the net lag could be an issue. just trying to eliminate possibilities and not make you look stupid by the way by asking what is clearly a dumb question.

[Mariodood]

trash talking to curious street fighters

Whoa...hello there March 09 join date. What the hell is so dumb about his question? What, he wants to learn about the game mechanics? Your question is dumb.


I assume you did try this in person right?




In SFIV, my friend and I went into training mode

didnt even read it?

[LordofUltima]

Nothing dumb about this question at all. Elipsis is good people.

[MuKen]

I'm pretty sure exogen was talking about his own question. No need to get all up in arms.

[Natious]

all the times this happened to me i lost. and i was always the 2nd todo it! :(

[Scrub Goku Satsu]

I dropped an AA Raging Demon against Zangief yesterday a fraction of a second late so he was already standing. As soon as the flash went off he activated his Ultra piledriver and I put my joystick down in disgust at myself.

However to my huge surprise I still grabbed him, even though he activated later than me.

Would that be due to the invincible frames on start up of the RD?

[Proto Cloud]

Obviously, if they both do SGS the universe explodes. Problem is Capcom doesn't feel like putting this in game. It will come up as DLC for $5.

[Elipsis]

I assume you did try this in person right? obviously over the net lag could be an issue. just trying to eliminate possibilities and not make you look stupid by the way by asking what is clearly a dumb question.

Mariodood's response was pretty sufficient, but I will add that if it was a dumb question someone would be able to answer it. ;)

If it turns out to be completely random I'm going to be pretty annoyed as that is a step backwards.

[Jouki]

I'm actually curious about this

I was, too, except whenever this happens at the arcade, the second one always wins...wth.

[Cress]

a kitten dies

[Mufflon]

Well, the whole screen should probably just black and get a double K.O, that'd be wicked.


That and your 360 shuts down and shows 3 Red Lights around the power button :)

I bet my money on random^^
But, yeah, would be nice to know how the game determines that.

[EliteCJ]

I should have just shut off my computer and went to play SFIv, but no, one more thread i said. Arg!! Now i must know the answer to this question.

[Duggish]

I should have just shut off my computer and went to play SFIv, but no, one more thread i said. Arg!! Now i must know the answer to this question.

It's been two days! :P

[MysticShadow1453]

im pretty sure during certain frames the raging demons try to grab the other person (since you can run into someone for a little while before it actually grabs occasionally and other times it does it instantly) so it has to do with the frames. If Player A's animation tries to grab before Player B's, A Wins and vice versa. I havent tested it beyond normal game play but im sure thats how it is

[GreySeraph]

Well, the whole screen should probably just black and get a double K.O, that'd be wicked. That or they sit down and talk about their differences.


I like this answer.

[Elipsis]

From Seth Killian




RE: Street Fighter IV Mechanic Question That No...
Apr 2, 12:53PM

I'm probably not the wrong guy to ask, but I'm not sure my mission should be to eliminate all the mysteries of actually playing the game. That's one of the things that got me personally WAY into the older SFs, when we didn't have real console versions much less training modes, and people looking for info like this have discovered aspects of the game I personally didn't know about (not every outcome is intentional).

At any rate, yes, Demon is a tricky one in SFIV. Right now I'd call it "functionally random" though of course not really :)

best,

Seth






Original Message:

From: Elipsis

Subject: Street Fighter IV Mechanic Question That Nobody Ca

Sent: Apr 1, 05:04PM

Hey there. Seeing as you work with capcom maybe you have half a shot at addressing this issue or directing my inquiry to the right place.



What happens when two players raging demon (or wrath of the...) each other? It used to be that the second demon, chronologically, always won out... but this doesn't seem to be the case with SFIV.

After some testing, I can say for sure that Ultras don't always beat Supers nor vice versa, the second demon doesn't always win but neither does the first, the player who is on the left doesn't always win nor does the one on the right. Other people have tested theories about life bar levels but no correlation has been found. In fact... it seems completely random which demon wins out!

Someone claimed that in the SFIV arcade version the 2nd demon always won as was the case with SF3:3S and CvS2... if that's true was this a coding error porting it to Xbox 360?

I would love some insight into this issue as I can't find an answer anywhere. If you're the wrong guy to ask I apologize.

[Duggish]

^^^^^

lmfao. When demons collide, Akuma's apparently play a lightning fast game of rock paper scissors.

[GreySeraph]

lol Demons collide and Dr. Phil has to intervene

[armagan]

At any rate, yes, Demon is a tricky one in SFIV. Right now I'd call it "functionally random" though of course not really :)
In short, he doesn't have a clue either :wasted:

[GreySeraph]

So Kitori and I did some tries...and so far we had some weird findings.

10 times out of 10, if the second raging demon was started when the other guy was within a roundhouse kick's range, the second raging demon won. Also, if the two raging demons were started from the farthest parts of the room, where one is done IMMEDIATELY right after the other, the first player wins (also 10 times out of 10).

Pretty much if you're mirror matching (and you're absolutely crazy enough to try and land it), do it pretty much immediately before it hits.

[Dixie Normus]

Wouldn't the second one landing be due to the fact of the invincibility at the immediate startup just as some people said before? Because once the demon is in motion, doesn't it just get treated as a normal command grab...

[ClxJames]

Well, the whole screen should probably just black and get a double K.O, that'd be wicked. That or they sit down and talk about their differences.
"no no, you dont just run up to them. Jump back, air Hadouken, land, then 3 hit fireball. Rinse and repeat my friend"

*2nd Akuma jots down notes*

[MRGAY]

:rofl:

I like the imaginative minds in this thread.

I'm pretty it's about whoever grabs first and says "C'MERE, BITCH!" and does things to them in the dark.

I'd bet my money on first activation, not the usual counter activation we see work (i.e., Reversal Ultra beats 1st Ken's Ultra).