Punishing moves that people tend to commonly use?

[noontide]

Currently, I am a Gouken player and I'm having difficulty trying to find ways to punish people after they use a move with that seems safe such as Blanka's rolling attack.

Here are some I'm having trouble against. Does anyone else have some.

Zangief's Lariat
Blanka's rolling attack
Bison's Headstomp/Scissors Kick
El Fuerte's Body Splash/Flying Throw
E. Honda's Headbutt

I'm recording these moves in Training mode and playbacking and finding ways to stop them. The most difficult one are Blanka Balls. Really hard to punish him with Gouken. None of the specials work and the landing back for Blanka is better than a cannon spike. The Blanka ball beats out a senkugoshoha. It's hard to time a tatsumaki Gorasen before the blanka ball hits. Normals trade too easily. Gotta work on my timing to beat him out. Bison and Fuerte are easier to deal with, mixups are a good game for them.

Could anyone help me find some solutions to dealing with these sort of moves?

Thanks.

[Shin Ein]

Well, i personally have been focusing on trying to counter Zangief lately. Here's a few things i've found that help (thanks to SiYkO for pointing them out for me).

For his Lariats, you can cr.FP the piss out of him. Gouken's hit box gets really close to the ground on his cf.FP, so it's a great anti-air and a counter for his lariat. It beats it out almost 100% of the time as long as you're not in point blank range. If you are, the lariat hits instantly on start up and the cr.FP has some windup frames.

When you're too far to cr.FP, Gouken's MP fireball will hit Gief right in the grill. Aim for his head, since that's one of his vunerable spots (the other is his feet, which you can sweep if you're close enough). Just be careful not to get too close, because your hitbox extends a bit outwards and upwards when throwing fireballs.

If they camp your corpse on wakeup, you can jump directly up, or up and back to avoid a piledriver if you feel it coming. A retreating Jump.FK works really well since Gief's hit box is huge. If they lariat on wakeup, all you can do is block or back dash if you're feeling froggy.

As for Blanka, i dont have a lot of experience with actual people playing him, but i do know that Gouken's standing FP beats out a Blanka ball. It executes really quick and the hit box extends really far to keep you away from horizontal damage. It's hard to counter it with this when they're close (you should just block it anyway if they're that close) but from half a screen or more, it's free damage. If you see the animation for it, just press FP and you'll knock them out of it. you can spam it from that far anyway and not worry about any immediate threat. If he does a vertical roll, back dash and cr.FP to knock him out of it. Again, your hit box is lower to the ground and the hit box for your fist will knock him out of his roll. You can also fireball, but your punch does more dmg, and there's less chance you'll mess up.

that's all i got for now. I dont have much experience with the others since everyone whores out the same people in online matches ; ; Not saying that's bad, just wish there was some variety sometimes.

[fango]

Yea, fp fireball kills Lariat. It also kills the fist move (no clue what that's called) as long as it isn't EX.

Blanka and Honda's ball/headbutt move can be killed with a lp fireball (exception is EX - just watch their bars and block the EX moves till they exhaust the bar). Blanka's diagonal ball can be killed with the hp fireball (assuming you execute it right before he launches into it - gotta anticipate it).

Another Blanka move that people like to open with is his sliding sk since it hits from the opening position. Depending on who the player is, I usually just open up with a low parry just in case.

No clue about El Fuerte.

I have major issues with Sagat fireball spam. If I catch him with a fireball launching and have time to pull off an EX demon flip, then it is punishable. But getting zoned outside of palm range is deadly and even Sagat scrubs are picking up on that now. He's easily the toughest matchup for Gouken right now (at least for me).

[starscream79]

Bison's Scissor Kick can be punished with cr.MP.

[K0rN b4LL]

What about Bison's head stomp? I hate that thing.

[gilley]

You can punish blocked blanka balls with a reversal jab palm if you blocked the ball high. Most people don't know but you recover a little faster from high block than low block.

[noontide]

lol, I don't know how to fight El Fuerte's either b/c no one ever picks him.


What about Bison's head stomp? I hate that thing.

You can high parry it, but don't do it all the time. He'll end up doing some other stuff like devil's reverses to throw you off. You can also jump back or walk back, but gotta watch for the cross up. Bison isn't really that bad compared to other characters for Gouken, though you still can't really punish after block.

[HvE]

lol, I don't know how to fight El Fuerte's either b/c no one ever picks him.



You can high parry it, but don't do it all the time. He'll end up doing some other stuff like devil's reverses to throw you off. You can also jump back or walk back, but gotta watch for the cross up. Bison isn't really that bad compared to other characters for Gouken, though you still can't really punish after block.

From my experience, bison's headstomp doesn't get parried easily, because he jumps out of the way before gouken counterattacks after parry. I guess you can just parry again when he tries for the devil's reverse thingy.

And yes, damn, I hate playing against bob sagats.

[noontide]

You can punish blocked blanka balls with a reversal jab palm if you blocked the ball high. Most people don't know but you recover a little faster from high block than low block.

omg...it works. lovin this reversal.

Lots of good info from everyone. Thanks for all the tips so far. I'm sure a lot of us could use some ideas on effective punishes lol.

[Gamogo]

What about Bison's head stomp? I hate that thing.

Perform two dashes (forwards) as Bison is above you and throw the bastard. I played a Bison the other night and basically threw him to his death as this guy was very head stomp happy. Keep an eye out for EX head stomps though, as it is very quick and damaging. If you're feeling particularly sassy, toss him instead of throw him and then feed him some Ultra.

Bison loves Ultras. Its what's for dinner!

[Gamogo]

A while back a few guys were asking about Gouken's anti-air options. You have the following:

- Crouching fierce
- High counter
- Jump back + roundhouse
- If knocked down, EX demon flip will get you out of trouble (has some invincibility and is very fast)
- A sloppily placed hurricane kick can catch careless opponents

And, his Super/Ultra. Problem being these two moves have a bit of startup delay, so you need to react early to a jump - ideally *just* as they are reaching the apex, if not before for them to be effective.

The last option I've been tinkering with lately his Focus Attack. If you see an opponent jump at you, IMMEDIATELY get that Focus Attack warmed up. The idea is to take their jump attack like a man, but then let loose with at least a level two Focus Attack, dash, and punish with your best combo. Some catches:

- An opponent may anticipate this if you demonstrate a pattern and empty jump and throw you. If you suspect an empty jump you have two options:

1.) Dash back. This cancels your Focus Attack and will move you out of range. You are vulnerable when dashing back so you may still eat something, but its better than eating a throw sometimes. If you clear them with your back dash, I often do a crouch + strong punch into fireball to score some cheeky damage and push 'em away.
2.) Let the Focus rip and kick their guts in before they get to try that throw. Timing here is critical and it really is an anticipation game.

Once you land the Focus Attack however, your options are wide open to show them how the old man rolls. Dash forward, and try one of the following:

- Ultra
- Super
- Standing fierce, EX palm strike, dash, hurricane kick (my favourite option)
- Standing fierce, EX palm strike, middle punch palm strike (safest and easiest option)
- Standing fierce, EX palm strike, FADC, Ultra (not worth it imo. Just use the Ultra on its own for more damage)

Basically, the idea is to look at using Gouken's extremely versatile Focus Attack as an anti-air. I used to find myself often with an Ultra still in stock after fights, but by doing this I've managed to actually use his Ultra a lot more due to the setup a well landed Focus Attack affords me.

[Kwani23]

I have parried Bison's EX head stomp before. The damage u receive for parrying (that grey color portion) is huge though so make sure u take time to recover it.

[oblivioner]

The tatsu kills the lariat really well, whatever speed. This and well timed mp hados (charge sometimes, other shoot fast so that he can't guess when to pull properly the lariat). Still I hate gief, and almost any idiot can't give you a lot of trouble with mindless lariats and grabs.

[rush down]

I actually punish lariat with demon flip sweep.

[Kwani23]

I actually punish lariat with demon flip sweep.

only if he is of a distance from u though. Lariat is most scary when used to pressure u from close range and that's where tatsu comes into play.

[rush down]

only if he is of a distance from u though. Lariat is most scary when used to pressure u from close range and that's where tatsu comes into play.

Agreed. I use this sweep tactic for Giefs that dont wanna take block damage from my fireballs.

[Greyshot020]

For Blanka balls and Honda headbutts there is a general strategy for them. Basically if you're expecting them, you can jump backwards and air FP or FK, what normally happens is if they used the fierce version of their attacks they tend to overshoot the spot you started in and their attack finishes right after, so in a way you're jumping in on them and you can start combos from there... or just sweep them. Its normally good to play defensive against charge characters with fast, horizontal moves. If you're worried, you can always just retreat with an air hurricane kick.

What I do have problems with though is a C.Viper! Her electric punch move (whatever its called) comes out as fast as a dragon punch and has virtually no recovery...whats more is that its an armor break! So even when I see it coming, there is nothing I can do about it as Gouken. Basically a free poke for her. Good Viper players will often mix up their offense, throwing in short-hop elbows to bait crouching, which then they can combo into as well. So far I'd say shes the best counter-pick against Gouken. Really need help on this! Thanks for feedback.

[Sablicious]

[...]
Zangief's Lariat
Blanka's rolling attack
Bison's Headstomp/Scissors Kick
El Fuerte's Body Splash/Flying Throw
E. Honda's Headbutt[...]

1) Tastumaki, :d: + :hk: (after second or third hit)
2) :d: + :lp:, :lp: Gohadokens (non EX rolls naturally), Tatsumaki (EX especially - comes out quicker + has invincible frames)
3) Kongoshin
4) Kongoshin/Hyakkishu > :p:
5) :d::lp:, EX Tastumaki...

[miazaki]

Actually against zangief's lariat, i stay just out of its range and use tatsu. Even though Zangief is using lariat, the tatsu goes trhough it

[Runis]

You can high parry it, but don't do it all the time. He'll end up doing some other stuff like devil's reverses to throw you off. You can also jump back or walk back, but gotta watch for the cross up. Bison isn't really that bad compared to other characters for Gouken, though you still can't really punish after block.

Bison's head stomp you can high parry on reaction, and if he cancels it, you actually recover in time to counter the cancel as well.

[Tonren]

You can punish blocked blanka balls with a reversal jab palm if you blocked the ball high. Most people don't know but you recover a little faster from high block than low block.

Wait... you can only punish Blanka balls when he bounces upwards off of your block. Are you saying that if you block low, he'll land further away, and if you block high, he'll bounce upwards and land close enough to punish with jab palm? :confused: :devil:

[dfyb]

Wait... you can only punish Blanka balls when he bounces upwards off of your block. Are you saying that if you block low, he'll land further away, and if you block high, he'll bounce upwards and land close enough to punish with jab palm? :confused: :devil:

blocking high is also the only way fuerte can punish a blocked blanka ball with a run slide

[reasoned]

Cammy's arrow to spike. Are you guys blocking the entire attack and punishing at the end or are you interrupting (if so, how?). I have found interruption to be highly dubious. Gouken's terrible shorts cause some weird match ups at times.

[reasoned]

Using the HK up close comes out as fast as the c.lp. The standing HP comes out very slow (8 frame startup) so using the c.hp (6 frame startup) is better for punish.

Frankly, Gouken gets shafted here also.

[Kwani23]

Bison's Scissor Kick can be punished with cr.MP.

i was reading through this thread again to find weakness against bison's scissors kick. This cant be true. At least not for the lk scissors kick. IIRC, bison is neutral frame advantage after a blocked scissors kick. Most ppl like to throw a c.lk after that which i think is 3 frames. Gouken has nothing to counter that except for the counter (low or ex) but this is hard as hell to guess becos they will mix up between throwing lks or another scissors kick.

[reasoned]

i was reading through this thread again to find weakness against bison's scissors kick. This cant be true. At least not for the lk scissors kick. IIRC, bison is neutral frame advantage after a blocked scissors kick. Most ppl like to throw a c.lk after that which i think is 3 frames. Gouken has nothing to counter that except for the counter (low or ex) but this is hard as hell to guess becos they will mix up between throwing lks or another scissors kick.

I have never been able to punish Bison's lk scissor with gouken. c.mp is less likely to work than c.lk but i have not gotten either to work. It could just be me but I doubt it.

typically, against a really good Bison, they take me apart with the c.lk/scissor mixup and ex-headstomp after they have frozen me into 'jesus christ these lks are too fast' mode. the recovery on it bison's c.lk is even faster than ryu/akuma.

[Sully907]

what can I do to counter blankas ultra when he has me in a corner? I can't jump back or jump over it because he can just shoot up and hit me.

[Mendes]

The Rainbow Ball can be punished with Ultra

Also if you block the Headstomp and the Bison is crazy enough to come back for the second hit, you can ultra or FA it with ease

[Mendes]

what can I do to counter blankas ultra when he has me in a corner? I can't jump back or jump over it because he can just shoot up and hit me.

According to the matchup thread you can Kengo the first hit up and down.

I saw this in a replay also

[Kwani23]

According to the matchup thread you can Kengo the first hit up and down.

I saw this in a replay also

this would be epic if u can get the timing. If u mess it up... well.. nuff said. IF u do have enough health though, just block the whole thing (block down then block up). Chances are u will have an ultra by the time u are done blocking it and then immediately punish him. But that ultra has mad chip damage. What my friend does is if u are low on health and he scores a knockdown which u cant recover from (ie sweep), he does the ultra immediately such that he lands on top of ur body and does that sonic impersonation and chip u to death.