my philosophy on akumas super

[phr33ksho]

Basically im of the opinion that all ex should be saved for akumas super unless its the last round and you wont be able to get enough to do it again. Here is why:
basically if you crossup and come out of the jump with your super, landing directly on the other side of your opponent the super will land 90% of the time. The same is true coming off the ground if your opponent is crowding you. 1 frame startup and instant grab if you are next to the opponent means you will counter many moves which are normally safe. I've gotten it to the point where the only time i dont connect with my super is if they start an uppercut a frame or two before the super comes out. This is fairly rare.
The other side of the coin is that you to use the super effectively you should not really use ex at all. I feel like with akuma this is not a huge disadvantage as none of his ex moves are necessary. Ex aerial fireballs are nice but really only useful for shutting down at the end of a match. ex hurricane kick bounce off the wall into dragon punch is nice but punished if the hurricane kick is ducked. ex demon kick is good but i really only like to use that to close down matches or it becomes predictable. all of these moves pale in comparison to the ability to land a super on command.
The fact that akuma is such a special move oriented character means that you will build up ex quickly by throwing fireballs constantly. I consistently get a full super gauge every match with patient counter play. Usually I will have slightly less health by the time i get it, but most people try to rush in at this point anyways making them all the more susceptible to the demon.

Anyways these are just some thoughts i had, i went from rarely using akumas super to using it every match when i figured out this strategy. to break it down into three simple steps
1. buffer demon input with jump/coming off the ground/teleport(questionable) etc
2. make sure demon comes out close to standing/crouching opponent.
3.profit

crossup on the jumpin is makes it connect more just make sure you are inputting correctly relative to where you are or you might do ultra on accident (which will often work with this tactic as well).
I find that other than countering moves for a guaranteed ultra a good tactic is to jump straight up against a close opponent, often times you will catch their sweep kick which has longer than 4 frames to hit.
anyways anyone disagree with me? do i not know some awesome ex moves i should be using? i dont have arcade stick so fadc combos are difficult to do outside of training mode aside from fadc ultra.

[BigBadBoogie]

I never use Super Demon at all, to be honest. It is ever so slightly easier to land than Ultra, but it only does the same amount of damage as a single BnB. EX air FBs and EX demon flips are way more useful, and I use the ultra purely as a punisher on big special/super/ultra whiffs. Akuma really doesn't need Raging Demons to win.

[Ephemeral]

its funny that the akuma forums is mostly just bitching about how bad akuma is because his demon utility isnt as good as previously. if you really want to demon, fucking use SA amirite. too bad theres no more than a handful of posters on the akuma forums without anything constructive to say.

clearly that wasnt directed to anybody but i feel like expressing that idea, because akuma seriously is not a character that requires a demon to win. have you seen any of his combos? they do top end combo damage (350-450), dependent on whether you want to SADC his stuff to a heavy HCB fireball.

if you play keepaway, zoning, teleporting until a golden opportunity to land one of those bricks then your akuma game is solid. its pretty simple. no offense but theres no philosophy behind landing demons. kara demon is next to useless (because if you're close enough 1+1 frame startup cant be dodged anyways) and i dont think u can kara the ultra demon, and even if you did, everyone can still jump on reaction. bait someone to jump and land it, SA and land it, asura and land it during recovery frames of opponent. thats really it.

hes not really that complex, just takes a very patient player which knows when to rush down and when to keepaway.

[pherai]

basically if you crossup and come out of the jump with your super, landing directly on the other side of your opponent the super will land 90% of the time.

basically, play against better players. one setup that a bunch of low-mid tier players will fall for a lot isn't a good enough reason to always save up for super demon

[MuKen]

You may be getting some success using the same setups over and over, but at high levels, people pick up on that and are ready for it. That being said, i do agree that if you are determined to land the super, you most likely will eventually get it, you just have to be patient and unpredictable. Between karas in blockstrings, demonflip setups, and the numerous moves which are punishable by super and super alone, if you're sitting on your meter you will most likely eventually land a super.

However, I do not think this cost is worthwhile. Realistically, it does not cost you 4 stocks, it costs you 5-6 stocks because you are going to have to sit on it awhile to land it. If you're just going for a point blank throw setup the minute you fill your meter, unless your opponent's an idiot he's going to see right through that. So all that time you are sitting on your full meter waiting for a super opportunity is time you are not building new meter for all the stuff you are doing. And after all this spent time/meter, you only do 330 damage. That's pretty good, but nothing to run home about.

That being said, even though I don't think it's worthwhile to save up or sit on meter for the express purpose of landing your super, especially when Akuma has so many great EXes, if you do happen to have a full meter and see a good opportunity, by all means take it.

Also, depending on who your opponent is, there are occasions where I do believe it's worthwhile to sit on it. For example, against Ken, if you hold your meter you can punish his f+MK, which is crucial to his gameplan. Not to mention a bunch of others of his moves. To make him give those up, to me is worth giving up EXes. But matchups like this are very situational.

[phr33ksho]

i'm around 2600 bp and average probably 2 supers connected per 3 rounds. it just comes out so fast that if you are right next to them the normal mashing up doesnt work and even light punch doesnt come out fast enough to stop if its not hit before the screen flashes.

[Chop]

Timing Akumas super and ultra is actually what turned me off to him. I was split between Akuma, Sagat and Gief.

I really enjoy Akumas moves all around, just the super and ultras drove me crazy trying to time.

Big props to the players that pull them off. But usually I see people just jump out of the way.

[DHEvil]

Timing Akumas super and ultra is actually what turned me off to him. I was split between Akuma, Sagat and Gief.

I really enjoy Akumas moves all around, just the super and ultras drove me crazy trying to time.

Big props to the players that pull them off. But usually I see people just jump out of the way.

A good trick to use is to fire off LP Gohadoukens and wait for them to jump over. It takes alittle practice to get the timing right, but you can fire off his ultra with a 90% success rate (even if they try to hit you out of it), and watch that sweet sweet 596 damage roll in.

Obviously, don't get predictable. Don't just fire off lp Gohadouken after Gohadouken, otherwise it will be entirely OBVIOUS what you want to do, and they will just neutral jump.

[nyuro]

i think i will try and use his super more often at least for a week to see how it goes. this game is a few months old in the us and less than a year old in japan (right?) so limiting what you do isnt gonna help evolve the game.

his super should have been some air fireball shit but whatever. ill try it out and see what happens.

the only ex moves i really use of his are ex air fireball and ex flip

[pherai]

i'm around 2600 bp and average probably 2 supers connected per 3 rounds. it just comes out so fast that if you are right next to them the normal mashing up doesnt work and even light punch doesnt come out fast enough to stop if its not hit before the screen flashes.

Yes, if its activated point blank, they can't escape, but good players will anticipate it, and jump as soon as you cross over when you have it stocked. I'm sure you can land it on people playing ranked matches all day, but those aren't really the best players.

[nyuro]

A good trick to use is to fire off LP Gohadoukens and wait for them to jump over. It takes alittle practice to get the timing right, but you can fire off his ultra with a 90% success rate (even if they try to hit you out of it), and watch that sweet sweet 596 damage roll in.

Obviously, don't get predictable. Don't just fire off lp Gohadouken after Gohadouken, otherwise it will be entirely OBVIOUS what you want to do, and they will just neutral jump.

how do you prevent getting hit out of it?

if you time it right are you too far away to get hit until right when they land?

[armagan]

I sometimes try s.HK kicks->super, from up close. If the opponent isn't a scrub they don't fall for it, even for the first time in a match :(

[DHEvil]

how do you prevent getting hit out of it?

if you time it right are you too far away to get hit until right when they land?

It depends on which character you're fighting, and what attack your opponent generally uses to jump in. If they jump in real close, you'll almost certainly land the super/ultra, unless they jumping short you and it connects (depends on the character and what properties their' jump-ins have). Most people will use a j.MK or j.RH though, so your SGS should pass right under these if you're close enough when they're coming down.

If it's far away then that could be a problem. They can have a good amount of time to stick out their' leg/fist at the right moment, but even this is sort of tricky to do, so you should still land the ultra/super most of the time.

[MuKen]

i'm around 2600 bp and average probably 2 supers connected per 3 rounds. it just comes out so fast that if you are right next to them the normal mashing up doesnt work and even light punch doesnt come out fast enough to stop if its not hit before the screen flashes.

Yeah, we all know that it's inescapable at point blank. I'm saying at high levels, if you have a habit of going straight for the super the minute you have full meter, people will notice that and start jumping out of all your setups before the flash. Your experience in ranked matches isn't reason to think saving up specifically for the super is a good idea because, the players aren't that good and even if they were, online play is a whole different game due to input lag and the fact you only play one match with your opponent before moving on.

If you're getting 2 supers per match, you're not using any EXes, and that's really not using Akuma to his full potential.

[Death By Nines]

its funny that the akuma forums is mostly just bitching about how bad akuma is because his demon utility isnt as good as previously. If you really want to demon, fucking use sa amirite. Too bad theres no more than a handful of posters on the akuma forums without anything constructive to say.

Clearly that wasnt directed to anybody but i feel like expressing that idea, because akuma seriously is not a character that requires a demon to win. Have you seen any of his combos? They do top end combo damage (350-450), dependent on whether you want to sadc his stuff to a heavy hcb fireball.

If you play keepaway, zoning, teleporting until a golden opportunity to land one of those bricks then your akuma game is solid. Its pretty simple. No offense but theres no philosophy behind landing demons. Kara demon is next to useless (because if you're close enough 1+1 frame startup cant be dodged anyways) and i dont think u can kara the ultra demon, and even if you did, everyone can still jump on reaction. Bait someone to jump and land it, sa and land it, asura and land it during recovery frames of opponent. Thats really it.

Hes not really that complex, just takes a very patient player which knows when to rush down and when to keepaway.
qft...

[MysticShadow1453]

only time I go for super / ultra is when they're jumping into me. if you time it so you're running into them as they land they cant do anything about it

[DHEvil]

only time I go for super / ultra is when they're jumping into me. if you time it so you're running into them as they land they cant do anything about it

Not entirely true, they can hit you out of the animation with good timing, but outside of an FA crumple, it's certainly your best bet.

[vicious2500]

Akuma's super and ultra are putrid in this game even at point blank range all a person has to do is just striaght up and they'll evade it. God forbid they jumpback on you and kick they'll smack you right in your head and start a combo.

[MuKen]

So wrong, but man I'm tired of explaining the demons to new member #23928343 who didn't read the numerous existing threads on it...

[Duggish]

Shameless Plug:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=181833


even at point blank range all a person has to do is just striaght up
The super will work @ point blank, but can be escaped if they see it coming...

[vicious2500]

Shameless Plug:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=181833


The super will work @ point blank, but can be escaped if they see it coming...
Once they get a super or ultra you should immediately be expecting it. just like once Ryu, Gat, Abel or Rufus get their ultras/supers you almost instantly stop jumping in on them.

[MuKen]

And do what? Always jump at point blank? That's dangerous behavior as well.

[Duggish]

Right. It was just your wording that made it seem like you didn't quite get it, but what you just said is completely true.

Like my poor bison...sure i can combo ultra off J.MPx2...but it never happens anymore since noone jumps after i have a flaming corner

[Shin_Akuma_]

Honestly there are three reasons why you shouldn't do Super for Akuma unless it will win you the match.

1. It does shit damage.
2. Meter is better used for ex and bnb.
3. You just filled your opponents Super and Ultra meter.

My philosphy still stands for Akuma that the only Demon you should be doing is his ultra. Even though it is excapable at point blank range there are still other ways of connecting it.

[BigBadBoogie]

I thought I'd interrupt this thread to tell y'all a little story about what happened to me just now... I was playing against Abel in a ranked match... I was doing fine against him to start with, then he nailed me with a couple of ultras by going through my fireballs (still trying to figure out the best way to avoid his ultra...?). Then the bastard started getting cocky. So I baited him into activating his ultra at close range, then at the exact moment his little close-up cutscene finished... Ultra Demon. Caught the sucker right in the act. Felt real good.

Super Demon? Don't need it.

[MuKen]

Honestly there are three reasons why you shouldn't do Super for Akuma unless it will win you the match.

1. It does shit damage.
2. Meter is better used for ex and bnb.
3. You just filled your opponents Super and Ultra meter.

My philosphy still stands for Akuma that the only Demon you should be doing is his ultra. Even though it is excapable at point blank range there are still other ways of connecting it.

That's totally wrong imo. Should you save up for super? No. But if you happen to have the meter, and happen to run into a situation where you can get a super, should you not use it? That'd be silly.

I was just playing a cammy player earlier today, and happened to have full meter when I blocked a long range drill. Now, what do you think I did, save my meter, or take the FREE 330 points of damage? You can damn well bet I took the free super.

[Kastigar]

I very rarely have the super stockpiled for it. I find that as Shin said, EX moves and the like are a better way to spend it. Now if I happen to have the full super meter and an opening presents itself I'll take it, especially because I don't use it very often so it's a good way to throw people off. His Super imo, is a lot like his Ultra; nice to have if the opportunity presents itself but don't use it as a crutch. Akuma has way more options than just those two moves.

[Shin_Akuma_]

That's totally wrong imo. Should you save up for super? No. But if you happen to have the meter, and happen to run into a situation where you can get a super, should you not use it? That'd be silly.

I was just playing a cammy player earlier today, and happened to have full meter when I blocked a long range drill. Now, what do you think I did, save my meter, or take the FREE 330 points of damage? You can damn well bet I took the free super.

Still wouldn't have done the demon. What I would of done was focus absorbed the long range drill kick then hit them with a lv.2 SA before they could recover. Now you've just set yourself up for a devistating combo that at the most will take 3 ex stocks and do more damage then the raging demon. Not only that , but you will not fill your opponents Ultra and super meter like you would if you did the Super Demon. Obviously the Cammy you were playing had no clue what they were doing if they are doing long range drill kicks that you can see. Even if they did it up close, you can punish them without doing a Super. Like I said the only good time to do a Super demon is if it is going to kill them.

[MuKen]

Still wouldn't have done the demon. What I would of done was focus absorbed the long range drill kick then hit them with a lv.2 SA before they could recover. Now you've just set yourself up for a devistating combo that at the most will take 3 ex stocks and do more damage then the raging demon. Not only that , but you will not fill your opponents Ultra and super meter like you would if you did the Super Demon. Obviously the Cammy you were playing had no clue what they were doing if they are doing long range drill kicks that you can see. Even if they did it up close, you can punish them without doing a Super. Like I said the only good time to do a Super demon is if it is going to kill them.

So....you're either

1) saying you've never been in a situation where you blocked a move you could have focus absorbed
2) advocating developing time travel so when you do block something you could have focus absorbed you can go back in time and change your mind

?

Saying a move that can punish stuff on block is useless because you could have just focus absorbed it smacks of theory fighter.

[Shin_Akuma_]

It's not my fault you used a bad example and it's not theory at all, bro. Any good player would of done the samething. Also, any good Cammy player wouldn't do long range drill kicks. First of all, if I see a hadoken come at me from mid range I'm going to focus absorb it then back dash. Same thing goes for a drill kick, but instead of back dashing I'm going to do a Lv.2 SA. I don't know maybe my reaction time is alot faster then yours is, because as soon as I read "long range drill kick" that's the first thing that came to my mind. Obviously you're more content with landing flashy demons instead of finding better ways to punish your opponent.

[MuKen]

Lol, I'm not going to continue arguing with you on your misguided attempt to make yourself look good and avoid the topic at hand. Suffice it to say if you are claiming you NEVER end up blocking something like that, I simply don't believe you.

Regarding the topic at hand, since you call this a "bad example", you concede there are plenty of practical situations where you can get a free super. Are you now continuing to stick to your claim that super is not a move you should ever use unless it would finish the match?

[ESN]

Between doing a demon or focus then combo (using 3 meters), i automatically do the easier one, and it's definitively not the FADC combo...

Less damage? Sure you're right, but also WAY more probability to screw up...

[Shin_Akuma_]

Dude, I'm not avoiding the topic at hand at all I'm just stating the obvious. I made a point, you tried to argue against it, my point still stood, you conceded to dismiss it as theory, my point still stood. Of course I'm not going to sit here and tell you that I've never blocked anything like that. Of course I did, when I first started playing SFIV. Honestly, since you point it out I really can't find any "practical situation" where I'd rather go for a free demon over a combo, unless it killed them. Not say there isn't a "few" situations where a demon was free. Even then so, I've never saw Demon in the begining or mid of the match as the deciding factor of the match. What I don't understand is why you would want to use a Demon instead of a combo that you could of used to deal damage.


Between doing a demon or focus then combo (using 3 meters), i automatically do the easier one, and it's definitively not the FADC combo...

Less damage? Sure you're right, but also WAY more probability to screw up...

ESN I'm sorry dude, but I set myself to a higher standard. I don't do the easy way I do the best way.

[MuKen]

Dude, I'm not avoiding the topic at hand at all I'm just stating the obvious. I made a point, you tried to argue against it, my point still stood, you conceded to dismiss it as theory, my point still stood. Of course I'm not going to sit here and tell you that I've never blocked anything like that. Of course I did, when I first started playing SFIV. Honestly, since you point it out I really can't find any "practical situation" where I'd rather go for a free demon over a combo, unless it killed them. Not say there isn't a "few" situations where a demon was free. Even then so, I've never saw Demon in the begining or mid of the match as the deciding factor of the match. What I don't understand is why you would want to use a Demon instead of a combo that you could of used to deal damage.

What are you talking about? You totally avoided the discussion point I raised. I brought up that there are moves which when you block, you can either punish with super, or get nothing. You instead chose to focus in this example, saying you could 100% of the time FA any cannon drill which is done from unpunishable range, which for one thing I simply don't believe, and for another, even if it were true COMPLETELY avoids my point since there are numerous other moves in this category.

It's not a question of demon versus combo, demon can punish several moves which are otherwise entirely unpunishable.

[Shin_Akuma_]

Wow. First, you said long range cannon drill not any. Second, you brought up a situation where if it were to block you could get a free demon. All I did was point out that you don't have to block then punish with your entire meter. Now you might find a better example, but my philosophy will still stand because this is how I play my Akuma. You might doubt my skills too. Hopefully, in the not so distant future, I can prove you wrong. In any case you have your philosophy, which by the way I never said was wrong, and I have mine. Maybe next time before you single out someones post you'll read the title of the thread.

[MuKen]

Wow. First, you said long range cannon drill not any.

I'm not saying "any" now either, I'm saying "any unpunishable range". I'm assuming that since cammy's drills have been around since the 90's, that you'd be familiar with the fact that there's a shorter range where you can punish her with anything, and a longer range where you can't punish her with normal combos, and thus would be intelligent enough to figure out that's what I'm referring to when I say "long range".


Second, you brought up a situation where if it were to block you could get a free demon.

No, the point was never that there's a situation "hey, there's a drill coming my way, what should i do? maybe i should block it so i can demon" it was that there's a situation "hey, i've already blocked a drill, what do I do now?"

Now I don't know what kinds of people you're playing who would "never" do a long range drill, but as I see, drills are a very common footsies tool. When you're both jockeying for range just outside of contact, it's extremely common to use a fast low to try to catch the other player off guard. And I'm sorry, but not even the top world players will always be ready to do the optimal reaction to every move that is thrown out during the footsies game. So you'll have to pardon me when I disbelieve you for saying that you don't ever falter on that.


In any case you have your philosophy, which by the way I never said was wrong, and I have mine. Maybe next time before you single out someones post you'll read the title of the thread.

Lol, this is a forum, just because you label it "my philosophy" doesn't mean nobody's going to disagree with what you say. I could say "you should never ever use an air fb and that's my philosophy", and guess what? The fact that I called it a philosophy isn't going to stop people from arguing with me.

Furthermore, you philosophy IS that any other philosophy is wrong. Your exact point was that you shouldn't ever do a super unless it'll win the match. That a pretty strong statement, it's not like you said "in my playstyle, I don't use supers most of the time".

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

you want philosophy, well here let me introduce you to this book called the art of war

[BigBadBoogie]

Oh christ. It's only page 2 and the whole thread's gone tits up.

[Shin_Akuma_]

Don't worry I'm done arguing my point. It's very exhausting.

[LordofUltima]

You have to think of it as already having blocked the drill, not having anticipated it in the first place. It's like hit-confirming, if we knew if an opponent was going to block or not, would we even need them? Probably not. But since we don't have the power of the ancients, of course we go in there with c. lk, c. lp. or whatever, to see how the opponent reacts.

Not to mention that blocking is a much less risky proposition then trying to focus on reaction.

[ESN]

It's not philosophy i see here, it's dogma.

[lain]

That's totally wrong imo. Should you save up for super? No. But if you happen to have the meter, and happen to run into a situation where you can get a super, should you not use it? That'd be silly.

I was just playing a cammy player earlier today, and happened to have full meter when I blocked a long range drill. Now, what do you think I did, save my meter, or take the FREE 330 points of damage? You can damn well bet I took the free super.

Exactly how often are you ending up with a full meter? Are you playing stupid people? Do you not use EX ever?

[bon]

I find i use all my meter on ex fireballs to help control the map or set up for attack, thus never left with a super to use.

[MuKen]

Exactly how often are you ending up with a full meter? Are you playing stupid people? Do you not use EX ever?

What is it your trying to argue here? I never said it was often, just that if I happen to have the meter it's not a bad option. Sounds like you're just trying to get in on an argument for no reason...

[Oninoaka]

I think they should of gave him a different super than the rageing demon I mean keep the ultra that move is friggin nasty but like they could have given him his tatsumaki super from third strike. Or better yet the shock wave move from Third strike.

[Professor Stoli]

I never have a full meter.

I use ex-air fireballs to pin them down, or if they are dumb enough to jump, I score a hit to make them stay down.

Then when they are down, I start using Demon flips and start playing with their heads.

I always use the demon kick and combo into a hurricane kick then dragon punch, or if they block, I use a c.lp x3 then c.mk to get away then repeat my air fireballs.

Then assuming they are still in blocking, I do another demon flip and this time I grab from the air. But if that misses, I have time to grab from the ground.

If neither of those two work, and maybe he is still jumpy, I use the demon punch to flatten him down.

If this lands, or really any of these, I know they are usually mentally wondering what the hell I am going to do next, and they will make errors.

If none of this works, I stay the hell back the start my turtle game with my 'cheap' fireball tactics, until I knock them back down. Then repeat.

Regardless, Akuma's ex-moves are used in my strategy, so I never use his super. If I do use his super, it's because the player is not a good one, and I am just beating him down easily. Which if I want a flashy ending, then yes, I will super it up.

Wow, that was a long post.

[drobizh]

I'll take the 4 EX air fireballs thank you.

And that setup is as old as the demon itself.

[BigBadBoogie]

...they could have given him his tatsumaki super from third strike. Or better yet the shock wave move from Third strike.

That tatsu super was Akuma's worst in that game. Messatsu Gohado was the only "normal" super worth using, and I do think it would have been a better choice than the Super Demon we have here... but then Akuma would have been able to compete with Ryu in the "combo/zoning into super fireball" stakes, which would make him way overpowered. Super Air FB would also be a little too good in this game, it's easy enough to hit with standard air fireballs as it is.

Oh, and Kongo Kokuretsu Zan was cool, but even harder to connect with than RD, which is the last thing an Akuma player needs.

[MuKen]

From a gameplay balance perspective, I don't think any super of greater usefulness would be a good idea. Akuma is already considered top tier, if they were to give him something more useful for a super they'd have to take away something else to be fair.

Although I wouldn't mind if they added something with more rushdown applications, and took away some of his runaway tools to change his overall gameplay plan. For example, they could combine his super and ultra properties into something more middle ground and give him that as an upgraded super that can be used as a kara grab and hits like a mac truck, replace his ultra with kongou (seeing as you mainly just use it to punish stuff anyway, they could give the kongou roughly the same punishment abilities, and make sure it can't be comboed into). Then as a tradeoff remove the red fb ability to override other fbs, and give him alpha-style air-fbs that aren't as good for runaway, and change the EX to a simple 2-hit fb that can be done as an instant air TK really close to the ground and gives frame advantage.

[ESN]

Oh, and Kongo Kokuretsu Zan was cool, but even harder to connect with than RD, which is the last thing an Akuma player needs.
You can have a free KKZ from a connected cr.MK...

[BigBadBoogie]

For only a fraction of the full damage, though. LK tatsu > LP > KKZ works better, although a little harder to pull off.

[ShinAkuma204]

For only a fraction of the full damage, though. LK tatsu > LP > KKZ works better, although a little harder to pull off.

Once you practiced enough I found KKZ reset easier to hit than a demon in 3s, plus it did about the same damage.

[Oninoaka]

That tatsu super was Akuma's worst in that game. Messatsu Gohado was the only "normal" super worth using, and I do think it would have been a better choice than the Super Demon we have here... but then Akuma would have been able to compete with Ryu in the "combo/zoning into super fireball" stakes, which would make him way overpowered. Super Air FB would also be a little too good in this game, it's easy enough to hit with standard air fireballs as it is.

Oh, and Kongo Kokuretsu Zan was cool, but even harder to connect with than RD, which is the last thing an Akuma player needs.

True but it did half decent damage if it landed and the tatsu is less obvious when pulling it off.

[Oninoaka]

Although they did pretty much give it to Gouken its exactly his ex Tatsumaki Gourasen.

[Mechanica]

Once you practiced enough I found KKZ reset easier to hit than a demon in 3s, plus it did about the same damage.

I can kara-demon in my sleep but I never ONCE could land that reset. :looney:

[ShinAkuma204]

I can kara-demon in my sleep but I never ONCE could land that reset. :looney:

My point is against good players you will find more opportunity to hit KKZ reset than hit kara demon. At least that's what I found.

[King Of Bums]

Kara demon is a lot more forgiving in this game. But I would rather use ex over the regular demon anyway (unless for the kill). The kara-demon on works with the ultra btw (if it wasn't already mentioned, too lazy to check previous posts).

[Mechanica]

My point is against good players you will find more opportunity to hit KKZ reset than hit kara demon. At least that's what I found.

Hmm. Maybe. I landed more blocked S.MPs than I ever did hit an lk tatsu, though. But the KKZ is more guaranteed so I see where you're coming from.

Is karademon useful in this game? Can you jump out of a kara demon tick?

[BigBadBoogie]

Personally, I can see very few real applications for kara demon in SF4 because even at point blank range, the ultra can be jumped out of so you should never use it unless punishing a whiffed ultra or other big move anyway. In terms of ease and reliability of execution, you're better off just using dashup-demon, or block-buffering the input.

Oh, and you can't really "tick" demon as such, because it won't grab on blockstun or hit stun.

[ShinAkuma204]

Hmm. Maybe. I landed more blocked S.MPs than I ever did hit an lk tatsu, though. But the KKZ is more guaranteed so I see where you're coming from.

Is karademon useful in this game? Can you jump out of a kara demon tick?

The super demon basically has the same properties as it did in 3s, so you can't jump after flash.

Ultra however can always be jumped as long as the opponent didn't commit to a move or aren't landing from a jump.