CVS2: Roll Cancel Strategies

please please gimme some tactics and stuff with other characters other than blanka for roll cancelling.

I labeled this shit right, if you have to move it, please do so.

I'd just like to know how to apply RC to other characters:D

Thx

[B.P.R Inc]

My personal Fav near the corner RC knee press with Bison=Free A groove combo


or you can do the Matt Brown special RC Hibiki Running slash....

wtf, why does it have to be a rc knee press? just so it's invincible?

I'd like tactics people!

[peetah]

and MY friend says you should experiment and find out for yourself... there's no point coming in here and asking us what other RC uses there are for other characters just so that you can prove your friend wrong...

[GeekBoy]

RCing is useful for either moving in safely, poking freely, or being an ass. Obviously, Iori has one of the most useful RCs in the game, his Rekka punch. You can't lose with it, you can use it to move in and if they try to punch you or something, you'll hit them out of it, one of the RCs you can use pretty freely.

[kingjada]

yo,roll cancling is mad hard,i must be doing it wrong or i just need way more practice, can u guys expilane the physic's of the whole roll cancling thing.

[FluffyXXL]

Originally posted by mixup
please please gimme some tactics and stuff with other characters other than blanka for roll cancelling.

I labeled this shit right, if you have to move it, please do so.

I'd just like to know how to apply RC to other characters:D

Thx

It depends on what characters you want tactics for. And not everyone has great roll cancels. I tried to start a thread like this a while back and there wasn't really anything enlightening coming out of it.

There are a few basic uses for roll cancels.

Anti-air: practically any character with a special move now has 100% anti-air. You can even do this with DP moves just in case you get stuffed and you'll hit. Zangief Lariat now beats any jump in. The obvious weakness is that parry grooves can still get around it and C groove will still most likely be able to block it.

Anti-poke: I saw in a Japanese match video how a Ryu player was RCing fireballs and stuffing Sagat C.Fierce. A lot of characters have moves that will fit into this category. Stationary specials like fireballs, King's QCB+K move, Vice's QCB+K move, etc. Main disadvantage is that you're not invincible 100% of the move (dependant on the move) and roll grooves can still punish. You have to know the attack is coming in order to utilize this.

Closing distance: Some specials are good just for moving because they have almost no recovery time. Blanka ball, Tiger Knee, Yun's Shoulder move, Raiden's shoulder charge, Iori's Rekkas, Jab Blanka Ball, Blanka hop, etc. There's really not much drawback to these moves, other than the ones with major startup lag can be thrown occasionally.

Anti-projectile: Some specials move you pretty far, so they're good for closing distance and going through fireballs. Psycho Crusher, Eagle's dash move, Honda Torpedo, Hibiki rush slash, Kyo and Iori's rush move, Rugal's God Press, etc. all can go through fireballs and hit opponents. Some of these moves will have initial invincibility, but can still be punished if blocked.

Command grabs: IMO, most are very hard to do. SNK motion moves are more possible, like Iori's grab. half circle motions like Athena and Todo are even easier to do and generally useful as a wake up. Wake up RC grab is probably the only use for RCing a 360 grab.

Best of the best: Some moves are good in almost all situations. Things that are fast and have no recovery. Blanka hop, Iori Rekka, Hibiki slash are probably some of the best RCs in the game. Chun Li can do some wicked things in N groove with low jump short, followed by RC roundhouse lightning leg, which if it connects sets up a combo to super. Everybody knows blanka hop -> RC electricity, so i don't need to mention how good it can be. Iori seems to be the poster child for RCing, his RC Rekka is good in close, and his RC command grab is highly useful for his wake-up and footsie games, especially in the corner.

[Sodom]

You can RC a 360 in response to small jump happy people ;-)

[Rick Fn Stalvey]

U I think Ioris is better than the Blanka ball for the reason that is it alot harder to punish. Especially if u the block the first 2 then u stop. At least u got the block/gaurd damage.:evil:

[DarthSalamander]

The 2nd qcb+p from Iori is not hard to punish. You only want to do one to be safe.

[FluffyXXL]

Originally posted by Shinma_sama
U I think Ioris is better than the Blanka ball for the reason that is it alot harder to punish. Especially if u the block the first 2 then u stop. At least u got the block/gaurd damage.:evil:

If you really think this, then you don't grasp the possibilities of roll cancels. Blanka has by far the best RCs in the game, and i'm not talking Blanka Ball. Blanka Ball is no where near as good as electricity. In general, all of the button tap moves are really good.

thanks for all the tips guys.

To the guy who said experiment yourself, why don't you just ignore threads like this if you can't stand newbs?

[TRANCEADICT]

ok soo what's new in RC..??
i was thinking of using it in a tourny but
i cant really do it much i been busting my ass of for 1 month
and still nothing i mean once in a while i get blanka ball.
roll taunt etc...
how do you guy's press the button's..?and olso how the
hell you do it..is it when it's about to hit you or what..?
i was watching some evo tapes and worship N groove.
honda,blanka etc..damn jap's...hehehe...

peace...>_<

[Evil Rahsaan]

RC electricity is by far the best RC in game. 100 hand slap is a solid 2nd.

Other top tier RC are:

Sakuras hurricane kick (frame advantage)
Rolento's wall hop (free getaway)
Bisons DP
Bisons psycho crusher (anti air)
Vegas rolling claw (see sakura)
Hondas Sumo Headbutt

and that's pretty much all you need to know, master these chars and rc and there customs and you will be cvs2 champ!

[ytwojay]

How do you guys RC kick specials? When i RC, my thumb is on short, my index finger is on jab, and my other fingers lie on the punch buttons. If i try to RC a kick move, my hand must transmute into some mutant-claw, which results in me looking like a moron, and not pulling off a RC. Tips?

[Geronimo]

Hey, I got a question. Can moves done in the air be RC'ed, like Akuma's air-fireball, or Rugal's Dive punch?

Thanks in advanced.

- Geronimo

P.S. Any tips on how to RC consistantly, I suck and can't RC ANYTHING, on purpose :( :sweat:?

[Mummy-B]

King is mad strong with RC.

RC Trap Shot as an Anti-Air.
RC Mirage Kick as an anti-poke (bonus combo into Surprise Rose if you corner them)
RC Tornado Kick as anti-fireball zone (both hits knock down, so it doesn't matter if one whiffs)

Fun.

[Mummy-B]

Originally posted by Geronimo
Hey, I got a question. Can moves done in the air be RC'ed, like Akuma's air-fireball, or Rugal's Dive punch?

Thanks in advanced.

- Geronimo

P.S. Any tips on how to RC consistantly, I suck and can't RC ANYTHING, on purpose :( :sweat:?

Answer this question, then it will answer yours:

Can you roll in the air?

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Mummy-B


Answer this question, then it will answer yours:

Can you roll in the air?

Thanks, I get it now. Too bad I still suck at RC'ing :( .

- Geronimo

[Mummy-B]

Note, however, you can RC moves that PUT you in the air from the ground. Like Cammy's Hooligan Combination (it's hard to RC for me, but I got it down and it's really cheap to bait DP's with it).

[PROFESSORLESTER]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Evil Rahsaan
[B]RC electricity is by far the best RC in game.
QUOTE]
Agreed but it is no ez task.

[TRANCEADICT]

RC taunt is pretty cool to do but does no damage what soo
ever..:lame: :lol: :lol: ...
i still have a problem...with RC i think my timing is way off
or some thing is wrong with my thinking...:confused:

[Ouroborus]

RC short cannon drills are too fuckin good.

its also one of the easiest RCs to do.

[Iceman]

Originally posted by Evil Rahsaan
Vegas rolling claw

This made me think of two things.

1st, I usually play K/P-Vega, but I always thought RCed flip kick would be really valuable against A/S/N grooves. I also wonder if his KK backflip is short enough (or if his roll has enough invincibility) to make a RCed KK backflip completly safe.

2nd, who sucks in RCing? Really, everyone's dope if you can RC 95% of the time. Kyosuke's the only character I can think of off hand who doesn't get a "non-airblockable" anti-air. I have a paper to write so I'm not thinking too much about this right now :p

[FluffyXXL]

Originally posted by Iceman


This made me think of two things.

1st, I usually play K/P-Vega, but I always thought RCed flip kick would be really valuable against A/S/N grooves. I also wonder if his KK backflip is short enough (or if his roll has enough invincibility) to make a RCed KK backflip completly safe.

2nd, who sucks in RCing? Really, everyone's dope if you can RC 95% of the time. Kyosuke's the only character I can think of off hand who doesn't get a "non-airblockable" anti-air. I have a paper to write so I'm not thinking too much about this right now :p

Well, it breaks down to the character's specials. If they have decent specials, they'll be good with RCs. RCing doesn't make every character top tier or we would only be playing the rolling grooves. It just makes some of the good characters better and a couple of the mediocre characters really good. Take Balrog and Iori for example. They're both decent characters. Not exactly top tier, but still decent. When RCs came out , i've seen a slew of new tactics for them, IMO making them playable.

Compare that with characters like Raiden and Zangief. Have they improved their game immensely because of RC? Not exactly. They might get anti-air, but they still don't have good enough specials to make a difference in most cases.

As I said before, it isn't all about the RC, it's all about the specials. They make RCs good or bad.

[ytwojay]

Originally posted by ytwojay
How do you guys RC kick specials? When i RC, my thumb is on short, my index finger is on jab, and my other fingers lie on the punch buttons. If i try to RC a kick move, my hand must transmute into some mutant-claw, which results in me looking like a moron, and not pulling off a RC. Tips?

[digitalheat]

Y'know,

I hear alot of talk about how RC kills cvs2 and how its unfair bla bla bla... but really, I couldn't think of anything better. If everyone learned to RC -- suddenly no ONE character dominates. It'd become like super turbo where (almost) everyone has the weapons to win. Of course, capcom could have fixed this simply by loosening up parrying (ie make it as easy as 3S parrying) but that is just a dream :D


Just my $0.02

[mr fuck]

just go play ricky and you will hate it too :evil:

[smoke]

Can't find any threads on how to practice this technique as well as how to use it effectively in gameplay.

It seems as if everyone's posting stuff on how to defend against it or deal with it, but very very few posts on strategies for using it.

So I'll start things off with something novel I noticed about RC properties.

In the CVS2 Kara Roll Glitch article posted here at SRK, it says that kara roll cancelling retains the invincibility frames of the roll of that particular character. This makes me wonder if characters who are typically known for their shitty rolls just might have an advantage.

From jchensor's CvS2 guide, I got these roll properties

Cammy has a roll where she's fully invincible for 22 frames and has a high invincibility for 4 frames (that means only low attacks can get her during this moment). She's fully vulnerable for the next 6 frames. That's 26 frames of invincibility for all of her specials considering I can't think of a Cammy special susceptible to low attacks. That's relatively long compared to everyone else's rolls (Only Rock and Chang have a longer invincibility window).

Does that give Cammy any particular advantage? It seems like her spiral can't be poked and maybe her lk cannon spike might retain some invincibility during the recovery phase giving it the ability of zero recovery time. Imagine, a completely safe cannon spike! What intrigues me most is the possibility of her hooligan combination. She can throw at will if you can't punish her in the air (Akuma may have a similar advantage, but with a 23 frame window of invincibility).

Also about the cannon strike. Can it be RC'd? I doubt it from logical reasoning because you can't roll while you're in the air, but if you could, this move could also be abused to no end (imagine an invincible jump-in!! Well we could just use the hooligan combo for that... hmmm). Wishful thinking.

Just wondering about all this because I'm guessing there's not too many people who play RC Cammy considering her roll sucks. But because of her particularly long roll property (well it's not that long... about 4 frames longer is practically miniscule), I was wondering if people noticed the possible advantages mentioned above. I can't RC so I can't try them out for myself.

I also got a question about that fully vulnerable phase of the roll that follows the high invincibility phase (if this doesn't make any sense, read jchensor's CVS2 guide on gamefaqs.com). If you RC a special, will that latter vulnerability phase affect the priority of the special assuming the move lasts that long?

I also want to point out that Chang has the longest invincibility window of them all.

22 frames of invincibility and TEN frames of high invincibility. That's a whopping 32 frames. Now Chang's specials aren't as airborne as Cammy's so the latter 10 frames may not play as big a role, but just wondering if anyone has played around with an RC Chang. It seems like loads of potential lurks within this very large man.

This is just to try to start things off. Feel free to post any RC strats or even savvy techniques to simply DO roll cancels. They're damn hard to do.

[Dangief]

I'm a Zangief player myself and have found his rc'd lariats both easy to do ( I can't consistently do any other rc's) and effective. To do his, or any pp/kk move, just set your index and middle fingers on jab and short and the others on the two punches (kick and be a little tricky to twist you hand around) now roll the fingers left to right, it's almost like one button press, just with the short kick added.

any advice on others would be appreciated, I could use the edge. :p

[PokesYOU]

I hit the buttons all at once, not left to right, then i do the joystick motion. Works good w/ Iori's 3 punch rush combo.

[Dreaded Fist]

if you hit all the buttons at once, how would you roll cancel?

[Moe Powell]

rcing lol.

yo, rcing doesnt add much to your game. It just makes u a little tougher to beat, but for the amount of time u have to put in just to use it consistently.... Well its not nearly worth it.

Doing rcs is very very easy.
Fireballs are done by pushing the roll button just as u hit the diagonal , followed by hitting a punch button once facing foward. Its like so instant. If u even try to think about when to push the roll button, u wont get it.

Just remember this, do the roll right before u push the main button and u should do fine.

[314]

yo, rcing doesnt add much to your game. It just makes u a little tougher to beat, but for the amount of time u have to put in just to use it consistently.... Well its not nearly worth it.

Invincible, nearly safe regular specials with every character not worth it? Hardly. Consider Kim RC'ing through a sagat fierce with the hangetsuzan (qcb+k), not eating the fierce and punishing sagat for trying it. Or the shittiest thing ever, blanka RC'ing the blanka ball through a fireball or super fireball and punishing the thrower for trying it. Don't think it's worth it? Well, I won't be able to change your mind then.

Doing rcs is very very easy. Fireballs are done by pushing the roll button just as u hit the diagonal , followed by hitting a punch button once facing foward. Its like so instant. If u even try to think about when to push the roll button, u wont get it.

In an arcade/tournament situation, you're not going to have the luxury of the console button mapping of the roll (unless it's lamely allowed in a console tournament). You've got to manually input the roll with jab+short, and then the move plus strength. Try doing that yourself instead using the "roll button" and see just how easy it is to implement.


-Chris

[bokchoy]

Moe>> I think I've spent more time practicing Custom Combos than RCs. It doesn't take that long to learn. I agree though; it doesn't make you THAT much harder to beat. Sure, it takes away some of the opponent's options and sometimes gives your character a better anti-air, but it's not absolutely gamebreaking, that can single-handedly win a match for you.

One thing I like about RCing though is that it totally makes you a better player. Playing with and against RCs forces you to be more careful and precise, and since a lot of your options are taken away, it also forces you to be more creative in attacking the opponent. In turn, is awesome CvS2 training. It's definitely helped me become a much better player than before.

[Buktooth]

current fave RC moves:

1) Todo command grab. When powered up you get 9000+ off of it with walk up strong, c.fierce into level 3. If not powered up just a simple low forward into jab wave does 3600. If they jump out of it, s.fierce, low fierce or super. Also lots of re-grab set-ups. Whee!

2) Sakura fierce fireball. A total beast when your opponent is in the corner, and RC hurricane kick accomplishes that very well.

3) Chun-Li roundhouse legs. If you hit with it you get the easy jab strong super link for almost 6000 damage at level 1. If blocked you can still link a low jab and keep attacking.

4) Maki run into stop. It's like a super roll! Run, stop and do kick grab or 720... or do another RC run-stop to go through attempts to punish it. RC backwards run-stop to punish cross-ups is neat too.

[haduken111]

Originally posted by Moe Powell
rcing lol.

yo, rcing doesnt add much to your game. It just makes u a little tougher to beat, but for the amount of time u have to put in just to use it consistently.... Well its not nearly worth it.

Doing rcs is very very easy.
Fireballs are done by pushing the roll button just as u hit the diagonal , followed by hitting a punch button once facing foward. Its like so instant. If u even try to think about when to push the roll button, u wont get it.

Just remember this, do the roll right before u push the main button and u should do fine.

You make RC sound so easy. It kinda is tho, but its adds a hell of alot to ur game did u see the final evo match? RC electricity is insanely good everyone who uses him in a rolling groove should know how to do it. Its well worth it to put time into it, because once you can do it consistantly you can abuse it. Even now in training all i practice is RC, and combos. What else is there?

Originally posted by digitalheat
Y'know,

I hear alot of talk about how RC kills cvs2 and how its unfair bla bla bla... but really, I couldn't think of anything better. If everyone learned to RC -- suddenly no ONE character dominates. It'd become like super turbo where (almost) everyone has the weapons to win. Of course, capcom could have fixed this simply by loosening up parrying (ie make it as easy as 3S parrying) but that is just a dream :D

Just my $0.02

I dont think RC kills cvs2 (almost does), but as of now, blanka, and ehona with RC does dominate, mostly blanka, so yes one character does dominate, on the other hand, sagat is still good without RC. Seems like his Tiger crush would be good better practice that.

but i'm just sayin play ricky ortiz' blanka, and see if one character dominates.

[Koop]

Originally posted by haduken111


.

but i'm just sayin play ricky ortiz' blanka, and see if one character dominates.


Well honestly, you now play the same style as his. But you dont be as patient as he does with his blanka. Plus he gets alot of cats with stupidity. I mean witnessing him do it would tell you to us precaution, not tryin to do a wake up move [once knocked down] and get popped.


Anyhow, RC doesnt kill the game. Just forces you to build up your game. I use RC when needed [ Hadoken111 knows]. Only on nintendo games to use it to death...lol :lol:

[cdaskillz]

Originally posted by haduken111


I dont think RC kills cvs2 (almost does), but as of now, blanka, and ehona with RC does dominate, mostly blanka, so yes one character does dominate, on the other hand, sagat is still good without RC. Seems like his Tiger crush would be good better practice that.

but i'm just sayin play ricky ortiz' blanka, and see if one character dominates.
It isnt that bad, yuou just have to be extra careful. RC does not dominate the game, RC honda bah! i laugh at it. c groove that shit. :D but as for RC electricty thats cheap...ive seen people build so much meter by just doing that the whole fight.

[bokchoy]

I know this is stupid, but I'll post it anyway:

-E.Honda's Command Grab has a 3 frame startup, and 13 frame recovery. The move's duration is a total of 16 frames.

-E.Honda's roll has 21 frames of invincibility.

Therefore, if E.Honda repeated RC Command Grabs, his invincibility would never run out, and he would only be susceptible to throws. However, since it's a Command Grab that he keeps repeating, you can't throw him either because he'll just throw you first.

So barring a longer ranged throw, does that mean that you literally can't do shit to Honda, if he keeps doing RC Command Grabs??

(Of course, you'll have to be able to do RC 360s once every half second, without ever missing)

[Fritz]

OK, here's a legit question: RCing short kick

I tried to roll (lp+lk), then quickly push lk.. but its too precise to get a high accuracy rate.

Do you think it would work better using the negative edge? cause the computer registers a programmed choice button either lk or lp when you push both at the same time, cause you CAN roll cancel by just using the actual move using the button push from the roll.

[AMinorThreat]

Originally posted by Dreaded Fist
if you hit all the buttons at once, how would you roll cancel?

because he is getting the negative edge Command. This is allowing him to do the move because of the releasing of the hp.

Also does anyone have down RC RH Hurricane kick with Sakura into s.lp, s.mp , fp hurricane kick? I have been trying to learn that link.

[jreinert13]

Originally posted by Fritz
OK, here's a legit question: RCing short kick

I tried to roll (lp+lk), then quickly push lk.. but its too precise to get a high accuracy rate.

Do you think it would work better using the negative edge? cause the computer registers a programmed choice button either lk or lp when you push both at the same time, cause you CAN roll cancel by just using the actual move using the button push from the roll.

My advice is to use negative edge. That's how I RC jab and short specials with near perfection.

[Fritz]

Thanks... i know i could just move 2 feet to my DC and try it, but is the timing relatively easy for it?

[Mummy-B]

Originally posted by bokchoy
I know this is stupid, but I'll post it anyway:

-E.Honda's Command Grab has a 3 frame startup, and 13 frame recovery. The move's duration is a total of 16 frames.

-E.Honda's roll has 21 frames of invincibility.

Therefore, if E.Honda repeated RC Command Grabs, his invincibility would never run out, and he would only be susceptible to throws. However, since it's a Command Grab that he keeps repeating, you can't throw him either because he'll just throw you first.

So barring a longer ranged throw, does that mean that you literally can't do shit to Honda, if he keeps doing RC Command Grabs??

(Of course, you'll have to be able to do RC 360s once every half second, without ever missing)

I was asking one of my friends about this too.

If you put the startup frames from the grab, and then the start up frames from the roll being canceled in the beginning, it's enough time to throw it. I'm thinking punch throw since kick throw, while harder to tech, takes longer.

[Fritz]

Actually, you can't RC until the RC frames are finished.... so you cant have 100% invincibility.... think about it, you can't start another roll while in one. This is like proven, not just a thoery of mine.

[GF2]

Originally posted by smoke

I also want to point out that Chang has the longest invincibility window of them all.

22 frames of invincibility and TEN frames of high invincibility. That's a whopping 32 frames. Now Chang's specials aren't as airborne as Cammy's so the latter 10 frames may not play as big a role, but just wondering if anyone has played around with an RC Chang. It seems like loads of potential lurks within this very large man.

Unfortunately, a character's maximum rate of invincibility can only last for as long as the special being performed. RC Chang benefits with an even greater anti-air spinning ball, but not much else. He doesn't have to worry about missing a command throw and getting hit, but the problem I have with this is that the recovery is too fast, thus so is the invincibility. This is probably best used as a wake-up. His charge special when RCed can go through supers, but shouldn't be used frequently since his back stops all normals and specials anyway.

One important thing to remember about Choi is that he doesn't gain the invincibility, only Chang. Therefore, any RCed special with Choi becomes, at best, a faster Dodge and must be used carefully to stop far jump-ins and pokes or set up traps. Only two of these moves are of any use because they give Chang some good protection from throws (DP+K and HCB+K). Depending on how close Choi is standing next to you and how close you are to your opponent, you may either get thrown still or have the throw attempt stuffed by Choi. But either way, your opponent has to be very quick to make a succesful throw to say the least. Choi's HCF+K is pretty much pointless now for anti-air since you already have a RCed spinning ball to work with, and much less as a RC move when your opponent's far away.

[JS Master]

Originally posted by jreinert13


My advice is to use negative edge. That's how I RC jab and short specials with near perfection.

what do u mean by negative edge?
cuz i have trouble RCing jab + short moves as well... care to help?

[jreinert13]

Originally posted by JS Master


what do u mean by negative edge?
cuz i have trouble RCing jab + short moves as well... care to help?

JS he means press Jab+Short for the roll and let go of the button you want to use for the RC while holding the other button.

So for Spiral Arrow... Jab+short(hold) roll down, down/forward, forward+let go of short while still holding jab.

This works very well. Learn how to do this and you can RC jab and short specials 95% of the time easy.

[koolaidsmile]

Originally posted by mr fuck
just go play ricky and you will hate it too :evil:

i second that

[GeekBoy]

Originally posted by jreinert13


JS he means press Jab+Short for the roll and let go of the button you want to use for the RC while holding the other button.

So for Spiral Arrow... Jab+short(hold) roll down, down/forward, forward+let go of jab while still holding short.

This works very well. Learn how to do this and you can RC jab and short specials 95% of the time easy.

That's wrong. When you want to RC the spiral arrow, you hold down the JAB, and let go of the short.

[jreinert13]

Originally posted by GeekBoy


That's wrong. When you want to RC the spiral arrow, you hold down the JAB, and let go of the short.

oh shiet my bad...good looking out

[JS Master]

OMG, why haven't i ever thought of that???

damn thanx so much, haha this is such a great way! :p

[RagingStormX]

That shit works real good, but with some characters the double tap works to, like with Hibiki.

[Koop]

[B]

Quick notes from the RC fien


- Guiles sonic boom rc (lp) will react to a hit but still get the boom off

ie...vega standing fierce lags....so you will trade [found out yesterday]


- to understand Blankas RC electricity lk+lp + rapid punch button

A FP rc'd electricity will give you a meter and a half after 3 shocks! just look at your meter build up...

- A good way to perform blanka's electricity rc or hondas slaps...
perform a move first
ie....do a mp ball, ending the ball animation with the rc commands

- another good way to perform a fireball rc...is to practice actually watching your character roll. Look at how the frames work, now in the midst of this complete your motion with desired button [sorry if thats sounds confusing, lotta people say i SHOW them better.....]





King Koopsta out