help with zangief

[Merkicus]

I searched the thread and saw something about oichio to counter lariat but that doesn't work for me.

My Honda is pretty mediocre, but I'm getting crushed by total retard Zangiefs who base their entire game off spamming lariat to beat <whatever I do> and mix in a few other attacks here and there.

I'm sure there's something but I haven't figured it out - wakeup mixup is surprise SPD or lariat spam, and the only success I've had is the occasional c.fierce at the tail end of his lariat (which hits me three fucking times as I block it).

Otherwise I've seen lariat beat everything - headbutt, buttstomp, all kinds of attacks.

What gives?

ps. lariat is fucking stupid - mashing a single KKK/PPP button on your madcatz stick should not bust a move out with that kind of ridiculous power/priority/invulnerability/fuckyourgirlfriend/etc. /rant off

pss. again I'm not that great but I can at least throw down with any other character in my skill range - sagat, ryu, guile, etc. - but zangief just rapes me spamming lariat :(

[Cyclopz0rs]

lol hasnt every street fighter game had a lariat?
anyways, doesnt buttstomp beat zangiefs lariat from a right distance?
especially ex? its best to go on training mode and record zangief doing non stop lariats and then just test out which moves with beat it.
lariat does LOTS of chip damage for no reason.

[Merkicus]

lariat does LOTS of chip damage for no reason.

I'm pretty sure it only hit me once or twice when playing Vega and crouching, but it hits me three times when crouching as Honda - it also seems to have this 'counter hit' property where it smacks you for daring to attack the bear.

[Cyclopz0rs]

you have to wait after the 2nd or 3rd hit to punish i dont remember.

[jewelman]

if he is just spamming lariat just neutral jump fierce backwards into hands you can do it on pad since your jumping and it destroys zangief and then hands into hands and if he gets close ex butt slam during a lariat ex buttslam is the best move because it beats tiger knee and inbetween lariats it hits no matter which set its on ;) good stuff if the gief wants to banishing hand you after your first set of hands block throw and repeat SET IT AND FORGET IT

[Cyclopz0rs]

green hands on block is a free throw :D

[Mr.SNK]

Ok first off against Gief. Don't even use your Sumo-Slam unless you are 100% sure it's going to hit. He gets a free 360/ex/Super/Ultra off of a whiffed SS.

Secondly if he has meter when he does banishing fish it usually turns into a bait tactic since you can Oicho from a whiffed one.


Don't get to predictable with jumping Fierce cause it's really easy to punish.

[Merkicus]

Ok first off against Gief. Don't even use your Sumo-Slam unless you are 100% sure it's going to hit. He gets a free 360/ex/Super/Ultra off of a whiffed SS.

Secondly if he has meter when he does banishing fish it usually turns into a bait tactic since you can Oicho from a whiffed one.


Don't get to predictable with jumping Fierce cause it's really easy to punish.

What should I do about the lariat spam on wakeup?


green hands on block is a free throw :D

Oichio or regular?

[Mr.SNK]

If you know he's going to lariat then block it, if you have ultra wait til the second tick and use it same applies for Ex-Headbutt. The reason this is a 5/5 match is cause you have to keep gief out cause once he get's in the entire match up turns into a 50/50 nightmare. Also try staying a little bit out of sweep/lariat range and going for a few chips with hands.

But once again don't get to predictable with it or you'll eat a Ex-Banishing Flat.

Also if he jumps in close and you don't have enough of time to do a Neutral jump fierce just use NJ. strong cause it comes out faster.

\Ok I think I've said cause enough to get that out of my system. :rofl:

[saberwolf]

I agree with all of this especially the input from SNK but you really need to learn the timeing for the LP headbut reasoning being is that it has the same start up as the ex headbut so it's invencible at the start i've had this go through fireballs also at close range just get someone to practice against and just tell them to jump in at you and kick you deep right before there foot touches you LP headbut you will see what i mean once you get the timeing down for this another reason you need to learn the timeing is because most geifs jump in to set up there mixups if you learn the timeing for the LP head but you can stand your ground better and you won't go into panic mode when you don't have ex bar just remember LP headbut is your ant-air ex is just your insurance policy.:china:

[papito]

lariat spamming is easily fixed with honda's jumping hp, since if steered correctly it hits gief's head during the lariat, then you can connect a crouching hp or 100handslap depending on the distance. just don't try to headbutt (maybe EX, but i don't recommend it), super or ultra the damn thing because you'll just end up disappointed hahahaha

spamming on wakeup, try simply defending it... hahahaha if you want to try something anyway, go for a EX buttslam and if you don't have meter maybe a good timed lp buttslam...

versus blocked green hand, normal throw or ex ochio.

[Merkicus]

I've actually applied some of the stuff in this thread to actually win vs Gief sometimes now - it's really all about the HHS.

I've still been gayed out by complete fucktard Gief players but I think it mostly has to do with my inability to deal with his jump-ins once he gets close enough - j.headbutt just doesn't work for me sometimes and I end up eating big damage.

[LCC]

Yeah if all they're doing is spamming lariat they're pretty much inviting you to time a headbutt or ultra to hit them as they come out of it. Just make sure you practice the timing against both kkk and ppp lariats. J.HP works great as others have said.

Blocked greenhand is oichoable afaik.

[mellowsawng]

I love faking a hb to bait a lariat then ultra his ass. Also standing hard punch knocks him out of it. Jumping hard punch and hard kick usually works, but the hard punch sets you up for the hhs too, so I never use hard kick. Jumping fierce and crouching fierce is great too, theres soooo much you can do against lariat spammers.

But once he starts a cross up, which normally starts with a surprise green hand close-in, put down the controller, roll into a ball and cry. I usually lose to him because of this, its all fun until he knocks you down or gets a spinning pile driver. It happens eventually because he lasts so long, its always a matter of time for me. I guess maybe more patience?

[Pieguy]

All non ex headbutts are throwable on startup for a huge window. Don't use em unless it's for guaranteed anti-air or you will pay. FP headbutt can be punished by ex banishing flat and strong headbutt can be punished by kara'd green hands so dun bother with the two unless u combo it.

[Merkicus]

All non ex headbutts are throwable on startup for a huge window.

Learned this the hard way.

[T03nemesis]

I feel comphy saying i win like 2/3 of my games against gief on XBL. Remove sumo splash, command grab and heabbutt out of ur arsenal.

i basically just camp him by spacing with far hardpunch/kick and use far hardpunch as an anti-air and do normal jump hardpunch to backaway when i think hes gonna greenhand.

Your nomral jump hardpunch DESTROYS lariat, use it a lot. Also, dont forget, his command grab is better than yours in every way, as soon as your close enough to use yours, jump away.

This is a boring fight to watch but its not that hard to win.

[n817azn]

I feel comphy saying i win like 2/3 of my games against gief on XBL. Remove sumo splash, command grab and heabbutt out of ur arsenal.

i basically just camp him by spacing with far hardpunch/kick and use far hardpunch as an anti-air and do normal jump hardpunch to backaway when i think hes gonna greenhand.

Your nomral jump hardpunch DESTROYS lariat, use it a lot. Also, dont forget, his command grab is better than yours in every way, as soon as your close enough to use yours, jump away.

This is a boring fight to watch but its not that hard to win.

Boring is the key word, every time i see him come up i'm like UGHHH, such an annoying fight. I really don't understand how people enjoy playing zanqueef. smh.

[Butters13]

even in G1, it seems gief's have problems with neutral jumping fierce hands if you keep your distance right.

[Chinaman318]

headbutts are pretty useless in this match, since they can be punished with green hand, or hit on the way in with lariat. even antiair jab headbutt loses to his j.MK =(

all i do is s.HK and j.HP

sometimes surprise him with a jump in j.HK into combo since it beats lariat unless gief is crouching

[dodgers2213]

From my experience:

-Ex Butt slam beats Lariat clean even while up close

-Neutral Jump Fierce is your best weapon. Always keep Gief in front of you

-Standing Fierce beats Lariat at the right distance. Use Standing Roundhouse to keep him away too

-Lariat happy Giefs can be surprised by a quick jump in Roundhouse at the right angle

-Jump Happy giefs will be destroyed by Anti-Air Ex Headbutt, Light Headbutt or Butt Slam

-Ex headbutt after second turn of Lariat

-DONT butt Slam for pressure or mixup since you risk reversal SPD for nasty damage (pretty sure SPD will get you 100% of the time from a good gief)

-if its a turtle fest...which this match up usually is.... try a risky dash ochio for some surpise damage

and like others have said, Blocked Green Hand is a free throw

[Bruce_Deluxe]

something I've learned: Crossup j.mk (belly flop) beats lariats clean. Keep this in mind for when he is waking up. neutral j.HK also beats lariats clean. Basically you should be jumping around a lot and unpredictably in this matchup, especially if he has no meter. GOod luck!

[jewelman]

something I've learned: Crossup j.mk (belly flop) beats lariats clean.

i want this to be true so bad

[Bruce_Deluxe]

i want this to be true so bad

It is true lol

[n817azn]

It is true lol

lol i'll have to try this again then, cuz i swear i've tried it a few times and i've gotten a lariat clean to my face. lol.

[Silly Goose]

It's sad that there are so many threads about one character. I wonder what the pros do that we don't. Cause I don't even see Zangief winning any tournaments

[Merkicus]

Gief doesn't win tourneys because he gets fucked by some bad matchups against other top tier characters - this doesn't stop him from dominating the rest of the cast though.

Also, you usually have to fight him in a very strange way because if he gets in he eats you alive and does a ton of damage.

[skyet]

low jab HHS after block green hand or ex is free and not remotely hard to time

if you're doing anything else in these situations you're wrong and deserve to lose imo!

[Chinaman318]

kitten you play a pretty sick honda; the only hondas ive lost to on xbl were yours and citi0fbrass

[saberwolf]

kitten you play a pretty sick honda; the only hondas ive lost to on xbl were yours and citi0fbrass

My honda will take you down also if you where to ever step into my bathroom my freind.:chainsaw:

[Chinaman318]

well i never said i played every honda on xbl, im sure a few good ones slipped through the cracks =)

add me if you'd like, i mained blanka for about 4 months before i made the switch to honda

[Mr.SNK]

We need to play... :rofl:

[Dru_90X]

Have you guys played Raph Bendy from Alabama? His XBLA is ravaii I beleive... His Zangief is a friggin' monster!! And he has won quite a few bit of tourneys, if not 1st, 2nd at all I've seen him in. He only mains Zangief and won't touch another character. His Gief is beast in HDR too... Check this vid of him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iseJn8_ZdyU
When I play Honda-Gief wouth him, he plays very patient and gets every punish. And if he sweeps you, then your in for one bad trip! lol
- Want good practice with Gief, play him

[Bruce_Deluxe]

I'll believe zangief took 1st in a tournament when I see it. He has too many bad matches. He owns some people super hard but gets owned right back by others.

Note about the crossup mk: It's not 100% clean. If you do it too early, you could possibly trade (happened to me today).

[Chinaman318]

i think ive played you Mr SNK hehe, your name sounds so familiar

but yea lets get a set down soon

[TickTock123]

Note about the crossup mk: It's not 100% clean. If you do it too early, you could possibly trade (happened to me today).

Wouldn't you hit too high and leave yourself open for SPD?

[Chinaman318]

the only jump in i'd recommend on gief is an early j.HK, it beats lariats sometimes and will trade at worst

do it early to give it a better chance of beating lariat...if it hits, finish the c.mk xx headbutt....if its blocked, jump back to avoid the spd

[dodgers2213]

just faced a good gief....*sigh*

for the first time in this match up...i was totally lost. My usual stuff was getting stuffed like mad. I missed a ton of opportuinties and took unneccessary damage because i started folding under pressure. I need to work on this more

Final count 10-2. jeez...i dont remember the last time i faced a good gief. Most giefs online are dumb as nails and keep lariating into my fierces. Online is such ballz

[Mr.SNK]

i think ive played you Mr SNK hehe, your name sounds so familiar

but yea lets get a set down soon

Ah so that's who you are!

Lets get some more games in soon.


Also, I love fighting Giefs.. I enjoy watching them evolve when playing a different Honda.

[Chinaman318]

Ah so that's who you are!

Lets get some more games in soon.


Also, I love fighting Giefs.. I enjoy watching them evolve when playing a different Honda.


Man before i played you i didnt realize how fast HHS built up meter lol

I'm usually too lazy to bust out some HHS but i see how vital it is after that set :rock:

[Merkicus]

Wouldn't you hit too high and leave yourself open for SPD?

That's my problem with Honda's crossup in general against most characters - hit too high because if I don't I get shoryu'd, and when I try to link I get shory'd.

[Silly Goose]

Have you guys played Raph Bendy from Alabama? His XBLA is ravaii I beleive... His Zangief is a friggin' monster!! And he has won quite a few bit of tourneys, if not 1st, 2nd at all I've seen him in. He only mains Zangief and won't touch another character. His Gief is beast in HDR too... Check this vid of him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iseJn8_ZdyU
When I play Honda-Gief wouth him, he plays very patient and gets every punish. And if he sweeps you, then your in for one bad trip! lol
- Want good practice with Gief, play him

This guy is really good but beating Balrog doesn't mean much.

[Merkicus]

Btw I do pretty well against Zangief online now thanks to this thread.

I was trying to fight him like a regular character instead of using nj.fierce, nj.roundhouse, and HHS to keep him out.

If he gets in on me I just jump out because although you'll sometimes eat a lariat, Gief players love to land that SPD and will try to use it after a jump in, if you just mash jump on wakeup a lot of times you'll dodge the SPD/bear grab/ultra/whatever.

[HondaHex]

Merkicus: Try to use close st.hk as a combo after crossup mk. It seems to combo a lot easier than any other normal and does decent damage.

I had this problem recently and trying to do a blockstring after hondas crossup to mix up with oicho just kept getting me dp'ed and thrown a lot. You have to hit their ass almost!

Stick to crossup mk>close st.hk for an easy 3 hitter and some nice pressure. It leaves them outside crossup distance, so charge immedaitely after and lp.headbutt a jump in or fp.headbutt a jump back.

The best time i like to use this is when a shoto goes over you with a tatsu whilst you are ducking. Reset them with cr.lp and do the above combo. Watch their head spin and bust out a random dp for you to watch with a big smile as they fall into hondas arms.

awwww.

[Chi-Do-Ri]

Merkicus: Try to use close st.hk as a combo after crossup mk. It seems to combo a lot easier than any other normal and does decent damage.

I had this problem recently and trying to do a blockstring after hondas crossup to mix up with oicho just kept getting me dp'ed and thrown a lot. You have to hit their ass almost!

Stick to crossup mk>close st.hk for an easy 3 hitter and some nice pressure. It leaves them outside crossup distance, so charge immedaitely after and lp.headbutt a jump in or fp.headbutt a jump back.

The best time i like to use this is when a shoto goes over you with a tatsu whilst you are ducking. Reset them with cr.lp and do the above combo. Watch their head spin and bust out a random dp for you to watch with a big smile as they fall into hondas arms.

awwww.

Yes this combo is great but needs to be a deep cross up for the s.rh to connect, if you overjump it will not combo and you'll get punished. Mixing this up with jabxxHHS and jabxxOchio when they block the cross up is good times.

[rigzag]

sounds interesting

[Bowlofwater]

i dont know about u but when i was using honda, neutral jump fierce moving back and forth really gave gief problems followed by hk. most likely they didnt understand how to counter it but it seems like a very strong move against them. i didnt use alot of moves against giefs

[deci]

low jab HHS after block green hand or ex is free and not remotely hard to time

if you're doing anything else in these situations you're wrong and deserve to lose imo!

cr.mk xx hhs?



i dont know about u but when i was using honda, neutral jump fierce moving back and forth really gave gief problems followed by hk. most likely they didnt understand how to counter it but it seems like a very strong move against them. i didnt use alot of moves against giefs

a lot of giefs apparently don't know how to do walk forward standing round house.