CrossOver Jab Spam - Total Humiliation - Need Help

[genxcop]

This sounds dumb. But I was beaten by a crap load of LPs and jumping.

This guy played Guile and Ryu, jumped around me with constant LPs. My first thoughts were AA with HP, too slow, kept getting hit anyway. Then LButtSlam. Almost always misses as he's directly above me. If I miss that gap, I get LPed again.
I pulled out a LSumoSlam, rarely gets it since while he's in the air he hits me out of it.

Friend said it's crossover jab spam? If that makes it clearer.

Any ideas on how to deal with that? Thanks in advance.

For those who are interested, he taunted in game too... pretty bad form but probably deserved if after losing consistently to it.

[Bruce_Deluxe]

lol jab spam? First of all jab in the air does not cross up.

Second of all, you can do jump straight up + HP. If he's to close, do jump back + HP or MP. You don't HAVE to always look for a special move, using a normal will often suffice.

[genxcop]

hm ok i didn't try straight jump HP so i'll give that a go.

I did try jumping back, i tried jumping back HK HP and MK but when the dude was using guile his kicks in the air got to me so we jumped around a fair bit till he caught up to me again. I get stuck again in the same situation once he does catch me.

straight jump HP... will try thanks! Any other comments?

there's nothing you can do while he's spamming LP right?it's cr.LP btw

[Bruce_Deluxe]

is he doing lp while he's on the ground, or is he jumping at you and pressing lp in the air? Neutral Jump HP takes care of the air one, the ground one you're right there is nothing you can do it's an effective block string. Just have to block and try to tech the throw if he's doing that.

[TickTock123]

Re: Ryu and hour ago i promised myself that i wouldn't jump forwards over a single fireball.
Since then i went 6:0 even against ryu's who'd ripped me up earlier.
Basically by stopping the jump you're not putting yourself in the position to be crossed up.
Otherwise you jump over fireball they jump in on you with no charge, either block string or throw.
If you block they're in perfect cross up range and then you're under pressure.


Re: Guile crossups? really?
Never seen that. Against guile FA is your friend.

[genxcop]

Bruce: I get to block most of the cr LP it's just every time i don't, i get hit 4 times with cr LP. I was only hit because I was trying to headbutt and buttslam out of it, fustration moves. As for his jump, I'm not sure which kick it is of Guile's, I'll find out tonight in training. It's a long reach kick but it's doesn't look like HK coz it's too fast. I'll confirm that.

TickTock: Interesting. Guile crossup came first, I beat him first game, then lost 2 games to that cross up LP spam. Then he got bored and went Ryu and did the same jump LP thing, that's when I gave up and quit after that. So yeh Guile cross up, I'm pretty sure he's not a great player, he's other fighting style aren't great. I just had to get out of that cross up LP spam and I was all good again.

As for no jumping fireballs, that's fine, tried that but I take heaps of chip damage that way. I've tried to FA, and then followup fireball always hits me. Am I miss timing the FA to eat that second fireball or is that just he mechanics of the game?

And you've summed up the jump in, no charge, land in perfect cross up range situation... that's how most of the rallies went against the guile and ryu from that same guy.

[brokenhalo]

As for no jumping fireballs, that's fine, tried that but I take heaps of chip damage that way. I've tried to FA, and then followup fireball always hits me. Am I miss timing the FA to eat that second fireball or is that just he mechanics of the game?

you need to dash cancel the focus attack as soon as you absorb the fireball. when you get good at it, the flash/absorb/dash will happen almost instantly.

as far as dealing with crossups, it can be a PITA but you have a couple different options. my personal choice is to wait for them to cross your character and time your lk buttslam so that you hit them when they land (basically what i mean is that if they are jumping left to right over you, you have to wait until they have actually crossed you up so that you're buttslam goes to the right and connects with them. if you do it too early you'll go to the left and eat sweep). other options i use are jump back jab, or back dash. learning what will work when takes a lot of trial and error, and can be a lot more difficult to execute online due to lag. the windows you have for different options are very very small, but thats sort of how i perceive honda in general.

hope this helps.

[genxcop]

ah cancelling, gotta learn and prac that first, I've seen it done but since FA isn't part of my arsenal (should be, but i'm still learning honda, learning from ground up since PC release of sf4). Will try.

As for the lk buttslam option, that's interesting because once they cross to the other side don't i lose charge? If i buttslam early, i go wrong side, which happens to me when i try to get out of the crossover thing. Didn't think i can leave it long enough till they are across because i'd thought i'd lose charge. Care to elaborate on this one?

Is there invuln on buttslam startup because once they cross over to the other side, ie my character has turned to the other side, i'm usually hit overhead if i don't block...

I've also tried HHS against it but cr LP too fast for me to get it out.

[Bruce_Deluxe]

buttslam is a down charge move you will not lose charge regardless of which way you are looking.... whether you are looking left or right, down = down. Headbutt will lose charge when you cross up/get crossed up though.

[genxcop]

I went through training, recorded an awesome crossover ryu (didn't know i could play like that with ryu) to train against and now realise much more. In fact i learnt so much about timing honda moves that it helped with fighting a friend vs his claw.

Going to keep that ryu recording handy. It even throws in random dpunches because I mashed the recording at the end haha.

Anyway thanks for all the tips, now to make it habitual and need to increase reaction speed:)

[Merkicus]

Crossup spam really wrecks Honda with some characters - it's very difficult to time the headbutts and often they just get stuffed anyway. If you fuck up timing then you just eat a combo.

Here's a video of Akimo getting raped by a Blanka doing nothing but crossup spamming like a ****** - this kind of shit really shouldn't happen in a balanced game but whatever:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnYPxszucA0&feature=PlayList&p=1D09B81A3FC75EFC&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=35

[ragingdemon123]

akimo just got outplayed that round. 1 round doesnt determine the better player. the blanka seemed like he knew the honda match up well

- blanka or boxer v honda. whoever gets a 30% lead seems to win the match over 80% of the time
- blanks jHK hits so deep and it stuffs all headbutts
- crossing up screws with any charge moves that require a left to right directional charge.
- anti airs. blanka has advantage in this. his ex up ball is fully invincible and has a very nice hit box whereas hondas buttslam is inferior in every way.
- blanka tick threw honda alot in that game. thats just mind games right there.

[Merkicus]

Maybe, but there's a definite disparity between the amount of skill required to crossup spam like a ****** and the amount of skill required to keep that shit out and deal with it.

Of crouse when you're blanka or a shoto or sagat it's np - just use your anti-air move and you're golden.

[dodgers2213]

ouch! i have had losses like that vid...nonstop barrage of crossup moves. It can be really frustrating...but you have to learn from it or suffer losing to it again and again

[Mr.SNK]

Sometimes I eat a BnB just to rethink my battle plan and see if I can sneak out a reverse charge.

[Stickyresin]

...
As for the lk buttslam option, that's interesting because once they cross to the other side don't i lose charge?...


As someone already said, getting crossed up doesnt mess with a down/up charge.

But something a lot of people dont know is that getting crossed up doesnt completely interfere with a headbutt either. As long as you had the charge before the cross up, you can still execute the headbutt immediately after the cross up and it will go in the direction of the opponent.

Example: Lets say you are on 1P side. You hold 'left' on the pad/stick to charge up a headbutt. The person jumps for a cross up. Immediately after the cross up (the actual mid-air instant that the characters switch sides) you tap 'left' and lp. You had the 'back' charge from holding 'left', but when the cross up occured the directions switched, so now 'left' is 'forward' and the headbutt comes out.

Now im not necessarily saying this is a viable tactic. You pretty much have to do the lp headbutt between the frame of the cross-up and whenever the opponent's cross-up attack happens. The problem is good cross up players wont give you more than a frame or two. But theoretically, with the lp headbutt invincibility frames, you should be able to come out ahead.

[(+[___]::)]

I'd say turtle it up i have fought some jab and jump players (Most of them Guile.) and i sit back use and just chill till he stops doing his stupid child like fighting style and comes at me remember Guile takes hits like a bitch compared to Honda so just be calm you have 99 seconds to beat this guys ass hit him once and chill time him or something.