Seth In SSFIV

[Melvargh]

Seth is definitely a strange case. He feels one buff away from being broken, and one nerf away from being useless.

He could use at least 50 hit points more. 750 is ridiculous, even for the formidable moveset that he has.

A way to even up the Gief matchup a little bit would be nice. It's really just his jump back fierce/s.fierce and wall jump that make that match so one-sided.

[.:: Miz ::.]

The point in balancing is that there ARE bad matchups. You can't be good against EVERYONE, that would be hilarious.

[ViCiOuSxRaMeN]

I'd say he's pretty good as is. I do agree with giving him just a little bit more health though.

[Melvargh]

The point in balancing is that there ARE bad matchups. You can't be good against EVERYONE, that would be hilarious.

Of course there are bad matchups, but the Seth-Gief matchup is so heavy in Seth's favour that it's nearly unwinnable for Gief.

[DDD]

Seth is perfect.

Don't touch him please.

[.:: Miz ::.]

Of course there are bad matchups, but the Seth-Gief matchup is so heavy in Seth's favour that it's nearly unwinnable for Gief.

Well that happens I suppose. Comes down to player skill over movesets/etc.

[Moopie]

Of course there are bad matchups, but the Seth-Gief matchup is so heavy in Seth's favour that it's nearly unwinnable for Gief.

The Abel Gief match up is so bad for Abel it's a joke. So Gief's even, right? :confused:

[bglaugher]

zangief damage on his 360 and health fck it make him gill

[Reipin Pillage]

I don't know about unwinnable. It is winnable, it just takes some guessing and predicting. It's hard though. EX green hand through standing Fierces and counter headbutt is an auto stun. You also can't cross up Seth or it gives him a free out.

[VariantX]

Seth is definitely a strange case. He feels one buff away from being broken, and one nerf away from being useless.

He could use at least 50 hit points more. 750 is ridiculous, even for the formidable moveset that he has.

A way to even up the Gief matchup a little bit would be nice. It's really just his jump back fierce/s.fierce and wall jump that make that match so one-sided.


If hes a buff away from being broken and and a nerf away from being useless.....wouldn't it make sense to do nothing to the character in the first place?

[Kajiki]

I personally think he should lose his jumping.HP, or whichever one gives him the dhalsim arms. Either that or make him less mobile (slower or take away his teleport).

[DDD]

Any slower and he wouldn't even be moving....

[Sabin]

I personally think he should lose his jumping.HP, or whichever one gives him the dhalsim arms. Either that or make him less mobile (slower or take away his teleport).

uhh jumping hp is like 50% of seth's game dude

[t3ngu]

He could use at least 50 hit points more. 750 is ridiculous, even for the formidable moveset that he has.

If I remember correctly, he's actually at 700 right now.

[Reipin Pillage]

If I remember correctly, he's actually at 700 right now.

I think Eventhubs has him at 700 but his health is actually 750.

[Kajiki]

uhh jumping hp is like 50% of seth's game dude

I rest my case then?

Against Abel its about 80% of his game. I'd prefer him to have a fuckin air sonic boom or something instead.

[Iduno]

I rest my case then?

Against Abel its about 80% of his game. I'd prefer him to have a fuckin air sonic boom or something instead.

Wouldn't that just mean Seth wouldn't have to worry about trading hits on it anymore?

Hell I'd go along with it, first time I've heard someone wanting to buff someone they have trouble against. :lovin:

[Sabin]

I rest my case then?

Against Abel its about 80% of his game. I'd prefer him to have a fuckin air sonic boom or something instead.

because hes limited to doing absolutely that and nothing else since abel can actually get in on him? j. fierce isnt even that hard to beat anyways if you knwo what youre doing.

if you take away j. fierce he pretty much gets turned to shit as seth has crap footsies.

[Dandy J]

i would like either

1. completely redesign him, take away copied moves altogether and give him all new original moves like tandem engine, or

2. take away jump up/back fierce, stand fierce, and give him normal life

[Devil-Trigger]

i would like either

1. completely redesign him, take away copied moves altogether and give him all new original moves like tandem engine, or

2. take away jump up/back fierce, stand fierce, and give him normal life

THANK YOU

i always hated that in some fighting game bosses, more Bosses with original moves please, like Bison in SF2.

[Rakae]

I personally don't want to see them change Seth.
I can't wait to see his new ultra. We all know how big a part of his game it is.

I am guessing that his new ultra will be something close range, maybe even a throw ultra, do more damage but super risky. Thats not the type I would like to see but I cant see them giving him another range ultra or one easily comboable.

[MILF]

i think the new seth ultra reborn him, brings back is health to normal

http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/103/1030280p3.html

[Hudd]

I think they are considering making him unplayable in SSFIV.

[Novastorm]

I think they are considering making him unplayable in SSFIV.

I think they are considering removing the super bar....

[il0veb00ty]

I think they are considering making him unplayable in SSFIV.

I really doubt that... sequels should never have major components removed, only added.

[Hudd]

I really doubt that... sequels should never have major components removed, only added.


I could not remember where I read that but I found it. http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2009/sep/24/rumors-more-street-fighter-4-upgrade-notes/ Looks like it was a rumor for the arcade release...which isn't happening.

[Shoryu Reppa]

I definately think Seth should not get his guaranteed Ultra/Super on Boxer, Gief, Honda, Etc. They should fix that somehow.


i think the new seth ultra reborn him, brings back is health to normal

http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/103/1030280p3.html
Hey thanks for that link. I hadn't seen this interview and it's pretty interesting.

[Melvargh]

I definately think Seth should not get his guaranteed Ultra/Super on Boxer, Gief, Honda, Etc. They should fix that somehow.


This goes back to my first post saying he's a difficult character to change. You could accomplish this by changing the ultra so that it doesn't take you out of the air, but that also renders his ultra completely useless. The only reason the ultra is useful is to scare the opponent into staying where you want them to, not because of the damage it causes.
There could be other ways, like raising the number of recovery frames on his jab boom so it's more difficult to trap someone, but that creates the same problems, but with the added feature of his boom being useless.
The low damage on the Ultra is definitely the easiest way to get around how easy it is to trap someone, but it's still an issue.

His problems are pretty clear, but fixing them is a dangerous proposition.
Being difficult to buff and difficult to nerf doesn't necessarily make him balanced. :rofl:

[jgh7]

I think his new ultra should be similar to Spiral's from MvC2 in that he performs a bunch of attacks that are borrowed from the other characters in one giant combo.

[Ultima]

The only thing I would do for Seth is make his triangle jump (currently the fastest way to traverse the playing field in SFIV, outside of teleporting) a bit slower. I would also consider making his s.HK not being able to cross up.

[Platinumstorm]

would really like them to reduce the range on his jumping punch, or make his punch slower. Hate playing him as guile =s

[Wikum]

would giving seth lets say 950 stamina make him totally unplayable against a pro?

[PENETRATOR]

I think he's just right imo, his easy to land "free" supers are perfectly balanced by their crappy damage.

[DjEric DarkSide]

make him invisible.

[WORLDRUNNER]

As someone who strictly plays with Seth I just hope they leave him the same. I think any nerfs and he's pretty useless. If you're going to take away my high stun or my easy ultra... Then I want at least 900 vitality. Any changes to Seth would have to be offset by more health IMO.

Anyway just leave him as he is.

[Nyoronoru]

I think a good boost for Seth would be to make it so that his non-EX Tandem Engine is actually useful.

[Pablo_the_Mex]

They should take this garbage ass character out of the fucking game. Boss only. Done deal. SSFIV will be better off with out him.

[KadyShack707]

i think that he should continue doing what he does best... get raped by anone who lands a combo on him, and if he lands 4 combos, then the other people are dead... sure he is a bit too good against a couple people... but then again... sometimes he can do shit all when u guess wrong.

[Stay Crispy]

I think they should treat him like Gill. You "can" play Gill, but he's not on the select screen and he is not tournament playable. I don't think he's broken, But certain characters have a really hard time against him. Like, there's no point of being a Zangief player, cuz in a tournament, you'll eventually fight a Seth.

[DevilKnight]

Being difficult to buff and difficult to nerf doesn't necessarily make him balanced.

That's a good way of describing it that I would co-sign.

I feel he could use 50 points worth of extra health.

j.HP is very tricky one through what it does for his zoning and matchups. He's arguably better at being Dhalsim than Dhalsim. It's an imbalanced part of his moveset IMO, but nerfing it is a tight-rope. Even with a decent walk speed and 50 more health, his footsies would still be far too weak with his current moveset and properties.

[Reipin Pillage]

I think they should treat him like Gill. You "can" play Gill, but he's not on the select screen and he is not tournament playable. I don't think he's broken, But certain characters have a really hard time against him. Like, there's no point of being a Zangief player, cuz in a tournament, you'll eventually fight a Seth.

No point in playing Abel cause you'll definitely play a Zangief, see what I did there?

[Hotobu]

I definately think Seth should not get his guaranteed Ultra/Super on Boxer, Gief, Honda, Etc. They should fix that somehow.



This.

I don't know how to best describe it, but playing against Seth in one of his bad matchups feels... un-Street Fighter. Zangief has a hard time against Sagat, but it feels different. Aside from the obvious difference in characters something about the vs. Seth difficulty feels artificial.

[Pete278]

The problem with giving him an original moveset now is that its like adding a new character, pretty much. New animations, new balances, new nerfs. He'd have to take up a slot from a character they wanted to add. Also, it may annoy some of the Seth mains. I second him, and personally would like him to be redone because he'd be alot cooler as a villain then, but I don't know how the Seth community feels.

[SaikyoBeast]

wooooow. i hate this thread so much.

durka durka unoriginal durka durka remove him durka durk

he doesn't play like anyone else in the game. he is not unbalanced or s tier. he requires near-pristine play to pull wins out against good players. (not even pros -- i mean the kind of player that randoms a pro out.)

maybe i'm a little more angry because you're talking about removing my main because his good matchups don't feel right or because you think his j.hp is too good (REALLY!? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1f9wVyq39c)) or because of some other stupid shit.

he is fine. that's what i think. if you get outplayed, you lose. give him 50 more HP, a shirt to match his ripped pants, and call it a day. oh, and his new ultra should be high risk, high reward.

edit


I think a good boost for Seth would be to make it so that his non-EX Tandem Engine is actually useful.

i do like this but i don't know how you would accomplish it.

[Sabin]

j.HP is very tricky one through what it does for his zoning and matchups. He's arguably better at being Dhalsim than Dhalsim.

He really isnt. Sim's zoning is still better than Seth's for the most part.

[Lane]

I think they should treat him like Gill. You "can" play Gill, but he's not on the select screen and he is not tournament playable. I don't think he's broken, But certain characters have a really hard time against him. Like, there's no point of being a Zangief player, cuz in a tournament, you'll eventually fight a Seth.

I think you deserve that for playing such a dull and braindead character.

[Wonder_Chef]

This thread needs more love.

Ok let's be honest guys, if you lose all the time to Seth, you need to up your game against him, he really isn't that hard.

IMO he's on the weak end of the balance stick.


As people have said though, buffing him, or nerfing him would make him either way overpowered, or way underpowered. I went through a brainstorming session, and the only things I could think of would be to:

1. Raise his stun meter, to anywhere from 800 to 850.

2. Raise the damage of his SPD. IMO SPD mixups are a strong part of Seth's game, but being hit by one of Seth's SPDs isn't enough of a threat to warrant playing around them.

3. Make his Tandem Engine useful somehow, perhaps giving it a few more frames on hit, so you could punish a few more things with it.

[Machineking1313]

Seth is damn good right now but not OP. Nobody in this game is OP. I dont care how much bitching there is about Sagat, Seth, Balrog, Zangief, Akuma, Ryu or even Ken, Bison, Blanka, and Gouken.

However, I must say that my friend punched a hole in his wall because of a Seth player on XBL who kept hitting him with stretchy arms, sonic booms and wall kicks. lol

This same friend destroyed 3 controllers as well because of people online, I know one Blanka player got him so frustrated he smashed and shattered his controller on his face which made him go get stitches for a deep cut on his forehead lmao.

[Wonder_Chef]

Seth is damn good right now but not OP. Nobody in this game is OP. I dont care how much bitching there is about Sagat, Seth, Balrog, Zangief, Akuma, Ryu or even Ken, Bison, Blanka, and Gouken.

However, I must say that my friend punched a hole in his wall because of a Seth player on XBL who kept hitting him with stretchy arms, sonic booms and wall kicks. lol

This same friend destroyed 3 controllers as well because of people online, I know one Blanka player got him so frustrated he smashed and shattered his controller on his face which made him go get stitches for a deep cut on his forehead lmao.

Cool man, thanks for contributing!

[Sabin]

The only thing I would do for Seth is make his triangle jump (currently the fastest way to traverse the playing field in SFIV, outside of teleporting) a bit slower. I would also consider making his s.HK not being able to cross up.

I would be fine with the triangle jump being slightly slower, but j. hk crossup no. Seth has no footsies he has to jump or trick his opponent into sticking out something in order to get damage.


would really like them to reduce the range on his jumping punch, or make his punch slower. Hate playing him as guile =s

Guile beats Seth dude.


This.

I don't know how to best describe it, but playing against Seth in one of his bad matchups feels... un-Street Fighter. Zangief has a hard time against Sagat, but it feels different. Aside from the obvious difference in characters something about the vs. Seth difficulty feels artificial.

Wow, Justin Wong has really poisoned your minds. You sound exactly like him back when he was saying Seth is OP and should be banned.




I think a good boost for Seth would be to make it so that his non-EX Tandem Engine is actually useful.




3. Make his Tandem Engine useful somehow, perhaps giving it a few more frames on hit, so you could punish a few more things with it.

His jab tandem engine is extremely useful, sounds ilke you guys arent using the move to his max potential. I was surprised to see you guys say this.

[Wonder_Chef]

His jab tandem engine is extremely useful, sounds ilke you guys arent using the move to his max potential. I was surprised to see you guys say this.

I haven't ever seen someone use it well yet. Nobody on the Seth forum has found anything either.

[keflex]

His jab tandem engine is extremely useful, sounds ilke you guys arent using the move to his max potential. I was surprised to see you guys say this.

How do you use it? So far, having them jump into it at range is the only conceivable way I can think of, and even that's risky because of the start-up and the small hit window. I've tried using it in pressure strings, but once the opponent realizes they can jump over it, it becomes very dangerous to continue using it that way.

Also, the fact that catching an opponent in an EX-tandem and then randomly whiffing a hit while they're stunned is bullshit. They better fix that bug in SSF4.

[Dullyanna]

If you take away the j.HP, give Seth average/decent walk speed and slightly better stamina/stun so that he has a footsies game. Otherwise leave him as is, since he's fine overall imho. Even if he has a guaranteed ultra setup, it won't necessarily finish the match. Gief having some shitty matchups isn't anything new.

[Sabin]

I hate to toot my own horn but
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTCaVlf4kbw (4:33 is a good example of tandem engine usage)
In addition it's extremely good against characters who dont have DP's and it catches plenty of characters backdashes on wakeup. And it destroys midrange focus fishing. You also (again im not a frame data player) seem to get more frame advantage the closer you suck them in with it. plus frames means you can start to work DP->FADC mindgames on them if they ever get the bright idea of actually moving. Of course it's risky if they jump but Seth is a GIANT GAMBLE in the first place. You just have to know what your opponent is oging to do which in of itself, is not easy at all. Ask JoshtheFUNKDOC, he knows. ;)

Of course EX tandem is better than jab tandem but again, 2 baaaarss

[Wonder_Chef]

I hate to toot my own horn but
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTCaVlf4kbw (4:33 is a good example of tandem engine usage)
In addition it's extremely good against characters who dont have DP's and it catches plenty of characters backdashes on wakeup. And it destroys midrange focus fishing. You also (again im not a frame data player) seem to get more frame advantage the closer you suck them in with it. plus frames means you can start to work DP->FADC mindgames on them if they ever get the bright idea of actually moving. Of course it's risky if they jump but Seth is a GIANT GAMBLE in the first place. You just have to know what your opponent is oging to do which in of itself, is not easy at all. Ask JoshtheFUNKDOC, he knows. ;)

Of course EX tandem is better than jab tandem but again, 2 baaaarss

So just throw it out and hope that the opponent throws out a poke at the same time?

[Sabin]

So just throw it out and hope that the opponent throws out a poke at the same time?

Did you read my post or only watch that video dude? I just explained how it's good meaty vs quite a few non DP characters.

Sure they can jump out of it, but you just have to train them not to jump by doing other shit. Look at the bigger picture.

Also the video example was mainly showing how you have to sometimes throw it out at midrange to prevent footsies/focus fishing. Since Seth has 0 footsies, people will be doing this a lot. (random focus, random limbs)

[Dullyanna]

You're definitely right about the Tandem Engine giving greater advantage the closer it catches the opponent. Also speaking of Josh, I swear I haven't seen him post in any SSF4 thread yet. It's a shame, the SSF4 forum could use more intelligence and fewer worthless unfunny troll posts in character threads... Actually, I think I know why he hasn't posted (Unless I've just missed him or something, lol).

[Dandy J]

over time the better players get sick of posting because it just gets buried by all the crap. happens with every game and every scene, thats why you gotta play and talk shop irl

[calvinfoo]

Seth should be permanently removed from Street Fighter. We don't need another porn star. We already had Gil and Urien and they are sickening enough.

[Wonder_Chef]

Seth should be permanently removed from Street Fighter. We don't need another porn star. We already had Gil and Urien and they are sickening enough.

Don't be jealous just because you aren't blue and naked.

[Dandy J]

Seth should be permanently removed from Street Fighter. We don't need another porn star. We already had Gil and Urien and they are sickening enough.
yea im homophobic too

[Dullyanna]

over time the better players get sick of posting because it just gets buried by all the crap. happens with every game and every scene, thats why you gotta play and talk shop irl


Seth should be permanently removed from Street Fighter. We don't need another porn star. We already had Gil and Urien and they are sickening enough.

... Right, now I'm sure why Josh doesn't grace us with decent posts. It's a damn shame too, since sharing information and ideas is a significant part of what this forum is or should be here for.

[Wonder_Chef]

yea im homophobic too

Really? I started playing Seth just because I like watching his muscular shiny blue ass.

Guess it was just me though.

[Henaki]

seths ultra is really annoying i dont mind the rest of him.

it just turns the entire game into a really boring bulldog if you dont have an air option to avoid it. his ultra shouldnt hit aerial or landing opponents, but in return it should be faster, imo.

[Infil]

My only real complaint about Seth is how long some of his moves take to animate. His 360 throw and his ultra should both be much faster, regardless of other move properties. Let's get on with the fight instead of watching a 5 second SPD animation and 10+ second ultra animation, which you're going to be eating very frequently. Same goes with Blanka's forward throw, but this isn't the Blanka forum.

Part of the reason I dislike playing against Seth is because I know I'm going to have to watch those long, drawn out animations. Command throws should take about the same time as Abel and Gief's command throws.

[Wonder_Chef]

Part of the reason I dislike playing against Seth is because I know I'm going to have to watch those long, drawn out animations. Command throws should take about the same time as Abel and Gief's command throws.

I think it takes about the same time as Giefs.

[Gumpool]

wow alot of bitches in this thread for one thing as a seth player and many seth players are that we never complain about other characters and how much damage a 3 hit combo can do to him we never complain about ryu or sagat fadc Seth in to an ultra taking 70% of our life away, we just simply accept that as to play seth this can happen...

but we don't go on a tirade and whining about taking sagat or ryu out of the game and Sims zoning>Seths zoning
...Seth=not automatic victory

give seth 850 in health I say

[Novastorm]

Part of the reason I dislike playing against Seth is because I know I'm going to have to watch those long, drawn out animations. Command throws should take about the same time as Abel and Gief's command throws.

Just timed it (no stopwatch just the seconds hand of my watch but i did them a few times and took an average)

Seth SPD: about 4 seconds
Zangief SPD: about 3 seconds
Abel TT: about 3 seconds

Seth ultra: about 10-11 seconds
Zangief ultra: about 9 seconds
Abel ultra:about 12 seconds
Chun-li ultra: about 10 seconds
Akuma ultra: 9 seconds
Sagat ultra:9

Well seems that Abel's ultra is even longer than Seths and even then Seth's ultra takes only 2 seconds more than the ultras of some other popular chars....

so there goes that theory, unless you REALLY think Seth's SPD shouldn't take 1 second more...

[SaikyoBeast]

Did you read my post or only watch that video dude? I just explained how it's good meaty vs quite a few non DP characters.

Sure they can jump out of it, but you just have to train them not to jump by doing other shit. Look at the bigger picture.

Also the video example was mainly showing how you have to sometimes throw it out at midrange to prevent footsies/focus fishing. Since Seth has 0 footsies, people will be doing this a lot. (random focus, random limbs)

imma be honest, I've never used it meaty and i generally forget i have it outside of blockstring traps or stun resets.

i think the startup should be lowered *a tad*. maybe make jab tandem fast enough to punish a ryu sweep? iono, that might be too much. but i don't know what (other than a teeny health boost) that would help him but not feel like too much.

[Infil]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1f9wVyq39c#t=59s : Seth does a command throw (all versions take the same amount of time) when the game time is an early 87, and by the time Abel gets up and Seth hits him on the crossup, the game timer is a low 82. That's at least 5 full seconds, closer to 6.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QcvEsKeppQ#t=59s : Abel does a grab at high 67 seconds, and is doing okizeme rolls at 64 seconds (also notice how much faster the opponent gets up off the ground than Seth's SPD). It's 3 seconds, as you mentioned. Three seconds for a command grab is fair. I won't research Gief's, but the jab SPD is really fast. The fight never feels like it's stalling like it does when I watch Seth's SPD.

I'm an Abel player, and I love to see his ultra (usually because it's hard to land), but I agree that it takes too long as well. I have complaints about Sagat's ultra length, but primarily because his windup during the ultra freeze is unnecessarily long. The actual length of the ultra is fine, because some hits can whiff depending on positioning. Seth's is nothing more than a cutscene you watch if the first hit connects, so it doesn't have to be any longer than 7-8 seconds. You can still watch him splat against the screen, but they have to do the whole swirl/suck in thing way faster.

C'mon, don't you get tired of watching 5-6 second Seth SPDs and 10-11 second Seth ultras that he lands virtually every round? Might as well put the controller down and make a sandwich.

[Novastorm]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1f9wVyq39c#t=59s : Seth does a command throw (all versions take the same amount of time) when the game time is an early 87, and by the time Abel gets up and Seth hits him on the crossup, the game timer is a low 82. That's at least 5 full seconds, closer to 6.

Now i've timed it to when Seth is back on the ground and able to move again, not when the other guy is able to get up. I did the same thing with Abel's throw so if you are looking at time before someone can get up you should add about 1 to 2 seconds, and then we're looking at 5-6 for Seth and 4-5 for Abel.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QcvEsKeppQ#t=59s : Abel does a grab at high 67 seconds, and is doing okizeme rolls at 64 seconds (also notice how much faster the opponent gets up off the ground than Seth's SPD). It's 3 seconds, as you mentioned. Three seconds for a command grab is fair. I won't research Gief's, but the jab SPD is really fast. The fight never feels like it's stalling like it does when I watch Seth's SPD.

Here you ARE using the time for Abel to be able to move in your calculation, whereas with Seth you're counting untill the time the opponent gets crossed up....yea not strange that you get a big gap in time when you count like this

I'm an Abel player, and I love to see his ultra (usually because it's hard to land), but I agree that it takes too long as well. I have complaints about Sagat's ultra length, but primarily because his windup during the ultra freeze is unnecessarily long. The actual length of the ultra is fine, because some hits can whiff depending on positioning. Seth's is nothing more than a cutscene you watch if the first hit connects, so it doesn't have to be any longer than 7-8 seconds. You can still watch him splat against the screen, but they have to do the whole swirl/suck in thing way faster.

C'mon, don't you get tired of watching 4 second Seth SPDs (fixed) and 10-11 second Seth ultras that he lands virtually every round? Might as well put the controller down and make a sandwich.

And no i'm not tired of watching it, same thing as apparently Ryu players don't get tired of buffering SRK inputs waiting for an opportunity to do LP SRK ultra...

EDIT: i wouldn't mind if Seth's ultra was reduced to....5 seconds for all i care...i'm just saying it's a bit lame complaining about an SPD thats 1 second longer and an ultra that's one of, but not THE, longest ultras in the game.....

EDIT2: Honda ultra takes 10 to 12 seconds as well (depending on the distance needed to travel to the corner) and his command grab = 4 seconds just like Seth SPD

[TheKingSeth]

Seth need some improvment in SSFIV

- Jump as high as Chun-Li

- Walk a bit faster

- Better startup on tandem engine

- A medium punch that damage enemy when he/she crouch and block, just like ryu guile have these punchs

[gridman]

- A medium punch that damage enemy when he/she crouch and block, just like ryu guile have these punchs

dont think theres a single character in any sf game with this feature.

[Doopliss]

I suppose he means an overhead.

[Infil]

Eh, I'm not going to argue the timing anymore. In my calculations, I count it when the other character gets up, not when the offensive character is able to move again (this is part of what makes Seth's SPD so long, the character stays down for a long time after it). Abel is doing an okizeme roll, but could have decided to attack instead, which is why I stopped it there. Seth's SPD should be 3 seconds like everyone else's. Launch them up, grab them, slam, done.

I already agreed that Abel's ultra takes too long. No ultra should take 12 seconds.

It just feels strange to me that Seth moves around really fast, has a super fast jump and teleport, but as soon as he gets an SPD or ultra, the match just grinds to a halt.

[Wikum]

honestly...i don't get worried by playing seth. i don't mind if they give him a bit more stamina.

i find that i beat most seth players with my guile because they aren't skilled enough to use him to his full potential.

i imagine against a really strong seth could be frustrating, but i definitely think he takes more skill to play than sagat. there is far more risk with seth...especially when people are gonna spam special moves knowing that it only takes about 4/5 to kill him.

how many hp.tiger uppercuts does it take to kill seth? 6/7? bit ridiculous really.

[Novastorm]

In my calculations, I count it when the other character gets up, not when the offensive character is able to move again (this is part of what makes Seth's SPD so long, the character stays down for a long time after it). Abel is doing an okizeme roll, but could have decided to attack instead.

Well that's pretty silly, since there's no quick getup option from a command throw, so yes, Abel COULD have done an attack, but it would have whiffed because blanka was still on the ground....looking at when the character performing the grab can move again gives a more accurate view of the time the entire move takes.

[Reipin Pillage]

Give him "original" moves? How exactly do you define original? Zangief, Honda, and Abel all have a copied move. A command throw. Just a different animation and different properties, guess what, Seth had a different animation and diff properties!

How many characters have fireballs? Same deal. A horizontal moving projectile, wow original. Akuma, Ryu, Ken, Dan, Chun Li, Gouken, Guile, Rose... How is any of this original? The differences lie in the fact that they all have different properties. Guess what!? Seth sonic boom != Guile sonic boom. The only thing the same is the projectile graphic. They don't even have the same hitbox as any Ryu who tries to tatsu over a Seth sonic boom can attest to.

All "copied" moves that Seth uses are original to him. They are not identical to the move that is copied. Not even Seth's standing fierce is the same as Dhalsims standing fierce.

I actually think his headstomp is better then Chun Li's also :rofl:

[Infil]

Well that's pretty silly, since there's no quick getup option from a command throw, so yes, Abel COULD have done an attack, but it would have whiffed because blanka was still on the ground....looking at when the character performing the grab can move again gives a more accurate view of the time the entire move takes.

No, I mean I measured when the opponent got up in both cases. In the Seth case, he did a crossup attack. In the Abel case, the Abel player chose to do okizeme roll as the opponent was rising.

Anyway. My point still stands. I think Seth's ultra and SPD take too long. If you disagree, then I guess we'll disagree. I don't see Capcom changing it anyway. :sad:

[Sabin]

Headstomp is infinitely better than Chun-Li's Reppin Pillage. It's not even a debate, lol cause the hitbox of it can stuff dps and stuff all sorts of shit that Chun's cant.

As for Seth's ultra/SPD, seth spd looks cool so i dont mind. at least compared to giefs. and as for ultra, yeah maybe it takes a little too long...but you know what it gives seth players time to really plan their next move which can make all the difference =P

[Daemos]

Seth should be permanently removed from Street Fighter. We don't need another porn star. We already had Gil and Urien and they are sickening enough.

You wouldn't be saying that if Seth was a blue naked woman. If you have a problem with any naked body, I suggest you look away instead of making comments like these.

[Mike Tyson]

well since they are changing every character in the game they'll have to do something with seth

[Keits]

I just wanted to chime in with a non-gameplay change that effects seth a lot. Ultra animations, like Seth's (and Juri's) are too long. Speed these up, please.

[nacor cb]

ok, i know Seth players are going to hate me, but in my opinion Seth should not be selectable in ranked/championship.

he is not fair, the only way to make it balanced is to artificially nerf his damage output and stamina.

but even so a good player who knows how to use his tools makes facing him a pain, specially for some chars.

player matches? no problem, player matches are just for fun, no ranking involved.

[Sabin]

he is not fair

heh i love how people say "he is not fair" yet in the ryu/rufus/akuma threads people are like "buff him up" or dont change anything haha

id like to see tourney results as proof of him being "so unfair"

[Reipin Pillage]

he is not fair, the only way to make it balanced is to artificially nerf his damage output and stamina.

but even so a good player who knows how to use his tools makes facing him a pain, specially for some chars.

player matches? no problem, player matches are just for fun, no ranking involved.

He is already artificially nerfed on damage and health compared to his CPU counterpart (Not sure if you were suggesting or stating that already but just thought I would confirm or inform).

Almost all characters have bad matchups, this is completely fair. A good player is a good player, regardless of their character choice and a good player will beat a worse player consistently over time.

Sagat is better then Seth, so if you think Seth needs to be taken out of Champ mode then take Sagat and Ryu out as well.

People are getting a little extreme with the suggestions around here. To suggest he should be unplayable in champ is to suggest he is so far out of whack balance wise that she shouldn't be included with the rest of the cast.

I don't hate you, I just feel sad that you don't want to bother to learn how to beat Seth and instead blame the loss on the character as opposed to the opposing players skill.


heh i love how people say "he is not fair" yet in the ryu/rufus/akuma threads people are like "buff him up" or dont change anything haha

id like to see tourney results as proof of him being "so unfair"

/sarcasm

Doesn't matter Sabin!! If he is played perfectly he is UNBEATABLE!!!!

/sarcasm off

(Note: any character played perfectly in SF4 is pretty much going to win since perfectly means no mistakes and there are no unwinnable matchups in this game)

[nacor cb]

He is already artificially nerfed on damage and health compared to his CPU counterpart (Not sure if you were suggesting or stating that already but just thought I would confirm or inform).

Almost all characters have bad matchups, this is completely fair. A good player is a good player, regardless of their character choice and a good player will beat a worse player consistently over time.

Sagat is better then Seth, so if you think Seth needs to be taken out of Champ mode then take Sagat and Ryu out as well.

People are getting a little extreme with the suggestions around here. To suggest he should be unplayable in champ is to suggest he is so far out of whack balance wise that she shouldn't be included with the rest of the cast.

I don't hate you, I just feel sad that you don't want to bother to learn how to beat Seth and instead blame the loss on the character as opposed to the opposing players skill.



/sarcasm

Doesn't matter Sabin!! If he is played perfectly he is UNBEATABLE!!!!

/sarcasm off

(Note: any character played perfectly in SF4 is pretty much going to win since perfectly means no mistakes and there are no unwinnable matchups in this game)

mmm... my fights against Seth are usually a 5/5 (i main Rose, and thanks to her slide and Soul Throw this match up is way less painful than with other chars).

so no, it is not because i loose against him, it because how he feels.

that is, he feels like an overpowerd char turned into an average one artificially because of the heavy damage output and stamina nerf.

but if i were playing with Zangief or Honda and encountered a Seth in a G1 finals, i would really cringe in pain before the match starts...

[Reipin Pillage]

mmm... my fights against Seth are usually a 5/5 (i main Rose, and thanks to her slide and Soul Throw this match up is way less painful than with other chars).

so no, it is not because i loose against him, it because how he feels.

that is, he feels like an overpowerd char turned into an average one artificially because of the heavy damage output and stamina nerf.

but if i were playing with Zangief or Honda and encountered a Seth in a G1 finals, i would really cringe in pain before the match starts...

And if I was an Abel and ran into a Gief I'd cringe too, it's called a bad matchup and not a reason to remove a character.

And the Honda/Seth matchup is not near Abel/Gief/Seth proportions.

[AirPhforce]

I say give him Akuma level health, and shorten the animations on his moves.

Magic foot can be a simple knockdown that deals the same damage/stun distance everything. His command throw could be shortened into a srk teleport bison stomp or some other combination of stolen moves that gets the throw to under 4 seconds, ultra can skip the whole tornado effect and 3x fly at the screen.

Really, my only beef with him is how long so many of his moves take to resolve. Also, he can afford to have a normal ryu-style srk instead of the one he has now, just up the damage on it so it's like the whole thing connects every time.

[Novastorm]

he is not fair

The only way to be fair in a fighting game is have only one character selectable, so everyone has exactly the same moves with exactly the same properties and then the better player wins....boring as shit...but fair....

[nacor cb]

The only way to be fair in a fighting game is have only one character selectable, so everyone has exactly the same moves with exactly the same properties and then the better player wins....boring as shit...but fair....

of course but the thing is Seth has most tools than any other char because he is in fact the final boss, this is why he had to be nerfed badly in order to allow people to choose him and not broke the game.

now, in SSFIV it seems CAPCOM is going to buff him more. And thats ok, Seth is quite weak for being a final boss (compared with other final bosses), he needs to be more evil.

thats why i think he should not be selectable in ranked/championship modes, but dont worry, i doubt that would happen...

[Shoryu Reppa]

Buff him up, fine, whatever, but get rid of this whole "Guaranteed Ultra and Super on certain characters".

Fucking nonsense.

[DDD]

^ Its the best Ultra in the game, love it!

I hope they buff his already broken moves and not his health.

[Novastorm]

of course but the thing is Seth has most tools than any other char because he is in fact the final boss, this is why he had to be nerfed badly in order to allow people to choose him and not broke the game.

now, in SSFIV it seems CAPCOM is going to buff him more. And thats ok, Seth is quite weak for being a final boss (compared with other final bosses), he needs to be more evil.

thats why i think he should not be selectable in ranked/championship modes, but dont worry, i doubt that would happen...

More tools is not an instant win....look at Gouken, if you count the fact that his hadouken gives him 3 options and that he has 4 options from his demon flip, high and low parry, he actually has equal or more options than Seth but still Gouken does more damage, has more health/stamina and a quicker walk speed....and afaik noone is getting very far with Gouken either in tournaments....

[Sabin]

of course but the thing is Seth has most tools than any other char

how does he have more "tools" than any other char when he has 0 footsies which is what SF4 is centered around primarily? i mean damn man.

[Novastorm]

how does he have more "tools" than any other char when he has 0 footsies which is what SF4 is centered around primarily? i mean damn man.

I think he meant in the way of moves....long arms are tools only Seth and Dhalsim have, headstomps can be called a tool as well.....but i still think Gouken has eaqual or more if you only count moves as tools. Don't hear many complaints about him....

[Wonder_Chef]

The only way to be fair in a fighting game is have only one character selectable, so everyone has exactly the same moves with exactly the same properties and then the better player wins....boring as shit...but fair....

That kinda sounds like SF4.... :xeye:

[rahmoan]

you guys really need to stop complaining about characters that are perfectly fine as is..his move list and options on offense are enough to warrant his 750 health

[k4polo]

Seth is alright. He is quite fair. If you ever actually played as Seth you would understand that he has the most tools in the game but that doesn't equate to win at all. He has his disadvantages being his weak damage and weak health. He is very fun to play in though.

As for the not fair comment. Screw it. Everyone should get Ryu. Forget Juri and all the other characters. Get Ryu and have equal fair matches from now on. No Exceptions.

Because otherwise there will be unfairness.

[nacor cb]

the thing with Gouken is he has no reliable reversal, nor command throws.

Seth has a way more complete set of tools than him.

of course, he has a weak point (other than the artificial nerfed stamina/damage), he is slow and has little footsies... but his combination of heavy zoning and wall jumping make him not really need to walk.

think about it this way: if he had normal stamina and output damage, he will be god tier.

... either when i win, or when i lose against him, the feeling is "artificial". I mean, if i win, is because i was able to land a few hits or ultra; so it is not a rewarding feeling. If i lose, is because i was completelly overhelmed because of his versatile moveset.

well, it is just an opinion, we will see what happens with him in SSFIV...

[PapaRhino]

I think they are considering making him unplayable in SSFIV.

"And while we recognize that some people aren't as big of a fan of him and don't like some of his tactics we'll say that he will be in, and we're going to make you like him even less"

I agree >_>

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

worthless unfunny troll posts

those are almost all my srk posts anymore lol

and i haven't been posting or playing as much lately because school is too serious right now!

but i will try and add something to this here thread


...

OK. Tandem Engine is definitely his most underrated move. Art already outlined the basics of it (the backdash catching is especially valuable since he doesn't have too many other good moves for that), but there's even more stuff he didn't mention. vs. Abel, for instance, it's a great move in moderation since it grabs him out of his roll. It's probably most important against Balrog since it grabs him out of every special move except headbutt, and his jump-in range isn't that far so you're at less risk of eating a combo.

There's also a neat general thing you can do with it, though this takes a bit of explaining. In order to work their way into a range where Seth doesn't want to be (mainly mid-range), good players will jump in from outside your DP range with an air attack that beats j.fierce - Balrog j.fierce, Abel j.MK, etc. Tandem Engine is actually one of your best counters to this, since it will grab them in their landing recovery for a free combo - note that this doesn't work if they start empty jumping, but then you can just hit them with neutral j.fierce.

So yes, I honestly think the move is fine as is.


As for more general things, Seth's major weaknesses are as follows:

1. Health & stun, shouldn't need to say any more.

2. Very weak mid-range footsie game. s.MK and sweep actually aren't bad pokes, but I think it's his walking speed that really kills him.

3. None of his mixup is worth the risk against a good portion of the cast. I almost never use SPD mixups anymore since one successful neutral jump takes half your life. And his side-switching stuff gets beat by mashing DP since that works from either side in this game. Seriously, this is why Seth has to play so lame in so many matchups, so if you wanted to change him I'd start here.

4. This is perhaps his biggest problem, and something I've never seen discussed on the Seth forum...a lot of characters can close the gap on him just by walking forward a few steps and blocking. His s.fierce has so much recovery that a lot of characters can make up the ground they lost from blocking it. This is definitely not the case with Dhalsim since his s.fierce has much faster recovery, which is why Sim has a better zoning game than Seth.

If you're going to nerf Seth in any way (change his ultra, etc.), you cannot ignore these areas. Sadly I think that's what Capcom will do, in which case he'll become the new Vega.

[Infil]

Seth is on the trailer with all the other playable SF4 characters, and they show him during the gameplay clips. They're not going to do this for an unplayable character, so it's safe to bet he's in.

[DDD]

he'll become the new Vega.



:lame:

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

Oh yeah, and I'm still not convinced Guile beats Seth. I've played Geom etc. and it seems very, very even to me:

- If Guile gets a decent life lead, you're fucked.

+ Guile can't keep up with you in throwing sonic booms since he has to charge. Thus, if you have a lead or it's close, he MUST jump at you at some point...and his jump is especially floaty and easy to DP. Also, if you ever do get a knockdown (most likely from that DP), he has almost no good way out of your offense.

[Reipin Pillage]

Oh yeah, and I'm still not convinced Guile beats Seth. I've played Geom etc. and it seems very, very even to me:

- If Guile gets a decent life lead, you're fucked.

+ Guile can't keep up with you in throwing sonic booms since he has to charge. Thus, if you have a lead or it's close, he MUST jump at you at some point...and his jump is especially floaty and easy to DP. Also, if you ever do get a knockdown (most likely from that DP), he has almost no good way out of your offense.

I've always had issues with Guile once the Guile realizes his airthrow beats everything I have in the air.

[k4polo]

Yea a Defense Seth is a monster in this game as he has tools to deal with alot of things. Plus the player has good defense which is a key to playing with Seth. I have notice I have to play safe as possible to win.

I do try to tick SPD sometimes. Keep the opponent back. He is a great spacing tool like Dhalsim, but has a stronger upclose game than dhalsim but loses on the zoning aspect of Dhalsim.

Guile is a tough cookie, but there ways to beat him. Most guile will sonic boom and flash kick when you in air. So never jump in his flash kick range but jump outside of it. And play a good footsie game. With Seth you can knock him down and try headstomp or teleport on wake-up. Teleport is nice to bait flash kicks.

One of my friends hates me picking him but I pick him anyways. He calls him cheap of all things.

[SoVi3t]

why is his ex tandem 2 bars? Is it really THAT overpowered, considering damage scaling and shit?

anywho, i would love if his 2nd ultra gives him a bit of all the other characters ultra's. Sorta like Spiral in Marvel (without actually morphing).

other than that, i hope they add a few more moves to his movelist. He needs to copy some Saikyo taunts, and moves from OTHER SF games (maybe dudley's rose taunt, and some of Alex's moves, and maybe even a Gill move/ultra)

In the Ono interview, he stated that ppl dont like Seth, and they will hate him even more in the update. I dont see that happening with nerfs

[DDD]

^ it would mean like 4 really long ass combos linked.

[Wonder_Chef]

Make it one bar so we can just SPD, Ultra, and do 20 second combos. We can win on time, every time.

[Jinrai]

They should take this garbage ass character out of the fucking game. Boss only. Done deal. SSFIV will be better off with out him.
Seth should be permanently removed from Street Fighter. We don't need another porn star. We already had Gil and Urien and they are sickening enough.If you hate Seth that much, either get over it or play a different game. Be glad you only got warnings this time for trolling.

This is not to say you're not allowed to hate Seth. But argue intelligently or leave the thread.

[SoVi3t]

^ it would mean like 4 really long ass combos linked.

I understand it could lead to long combo's timewise, but after damage scaling (take away some of, if not all of, the stun by Ex Tandem), it wouldn't be worth it to use it four or more times

[Chrisis]

Random thoughts on Seth.

-Significantly cut down the time of the ultra animation, it really doesn't need to be that length.

-To make people fear his SPD mix up more replace his SPD with Karakusa. This also adresses a lot of his attacks randomly turning into SPDs if we make it 63214K and switch the hyakuretsu Kyaku into 236K >:}

-1 more frame of hit stun on stand roundhouse for linking reasons.

-Slightly lower his damage/stun on j fierce, let it do its zoning job still, just without very much reward other than the spacing.

-Increase his overall stun damage slightly.

-Slightly faster tandem engine start up.

-Slightly faster crouching fierce start up.

-800 health.

[Aoi84]

Eh, leave Seth as he is. I'm on-board with the op pointing out how extreme any change could be. He's frustrating to certain characters, but it tends to pay off in your favor if you get anywhere near him. I hate playing against Seth, but I feel his pain... I know he only has to screw up once for me to win. Lastly, though taboo to say, when a Seth wins, you feel like you lost to a simply better player not to a character, due to their ass being worked off and guessing right.


I did "lol" to the statement of removing Sagat and Ryu from rank matches too... only because I said "sounds good". (Not serious, of course)

[SoVi3t]

give him messiah kick :)

[Gutter Trash]

Seth needs more unsafe frames after his projectile

[SoVi3t]

Seth needs more unsafe frames after his projectile



No, Seth needs to throw a sonic boom AND a hadoken.






maybe just with ex

[evi1mightymouse]

Seth is great as a final boss if you love aneurysms and punching in your own HDTV

[Reipin Pillage]

Seth is great as a final boss if you love aneurysms and punching in your own HDTV

If CPU Seth makes you break your TV I'm surprised playing online hasn't forced you to take a shotgun to your face.

[DHEvil]

I want Seths' EX projectile to be a hadouken.

[Wonder_Chef]

If CPU Seth makes you break your TV I'm surprised playing online hasn't forced you to take a shotgun to your face.

I agree, I never once got frustrated playing against CPU Seth.

I don't really understand why people have problems with him, I mean, he isn't a KOF boss for goodness sakes. IMO Gill was harder too.

[SoVi3t]

gill was only hard cuz of his fucking regeneration

I wanna see him copy more characters attacks.

All his moves are easy to pull off. Give him some charge moves.

[Pete278]

Maybe they could rename Seth's sonic boom to be sonic kinesis, to connect him more with Urien and Gill. I'd also be fine with dropping j.hp for an air sonic, as the Abel player said. ;)

[Kich]

"And while we recognize that some people aren't as big of a fan of him and don't like some of his tactics we'll say that he will be in, and we're going to make you like him even less"

I agree >_>

No, you really shouldn't agree. He's speaking strictly as a boss fight. You're aware that the farther you get into Arcade mode that each fight gets progressively harder. Even in the current SF4, Seth has probably around 1100 stamina when you reach him in Arcade mode.

The Seth as a boss is difficult because he has a lot of health, likely does more damage, and has the reaction time of a computer.

That completely, utterly changes when selecting him as a character as you're working with human reactions, his actual stamina being horrendously low, and his actual combos don't do all that great of damage. His normals do the least damage of the entire cast, his specials do the least damage of the entire cast, even his SPD caps out at like 180 damage compared to Zangiefs.

Quite literally, the only thing that keeps that character afloat is his versatility and zone capabilities.

Have you ever seen a seth win a tournament? Or perhaps place in the top 3?

Seth as a playable character doesn't even begin to reach the brim of overpowered characters--not by a long shot. When your life hinges on two combos, your margin of error is so small that to even compete against another competent player would require a maximum of 1 error per round.

[pedoviejo]

Seth as a playable character doesn't even begin to reach the brim of overpowered characters--not by a long shot. When your life hinges on two combos, your margin of error is so small that to even compete against another competent player would require a maximum of 1 error per round.

lol, sadly People simply dont know, and simply wont give a crap. Once they hear it from their japanesse overlords, and their god Justin Wong they wont change their mind. But as for the long animations i think it was meant to hurt you psychologically. Seeing those long animations, and the ridiculous stun that comes with it. I often find myself losing to Seth because he landed two insignificant BnB because i lost the momentum during the animation because i lost focus. People need to learn that during that animation you have the same xx amount of time to think out your move so you can make a more informed decision on what to do next. And if you remove those long animations I think a core component of what Seth's game can be will be lost.

ayi estan mis dos centavos tomalen si quieren cabrones.

[robotic elf]

I want Seths' EX projectile to be a hadouken.

It needs to be a maxout followed by a kikouken.

[ilitirit]

I just wanted to chime in with a non-gameplay change that effects seth a lot. Ultra animations, like Seth's (and Juri's) are too long. Speed these up, please.
+1

Abel's as well.

[Jon Studd]

I have the awful feeling that they're going to remove his j.mp

[Wonder_Chef]

That would be a really weird thing to take away.

Why would you say that?

[SaikyoBeast]

That would be a really weird thing to take away.

Why would you say that?

his deadly imba resets (http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=210809), duh. :rolleyes:

really though, why do you say that studd?

[CEO]

Seth is not some top tier god character despite what some people say. How many Seth's win tournaments at local, regional and national levels? How many Seths are there in the top 8 of any major? He NEEDS buffs not nerfs! Just a few ideas of mine:

More health 800-850
Harder to stun though not by a lot
Higher damage output on everything, including command throw (but not regular throw)
Faster walking speed
Give him a command overhead move
More prioirity on some attacks (all SRK's for example)
Less Sonic Boom cool down (nothing like Guile, more like Ryu's Hadouken)
Some kind of footsie game.

[Reipin Pillage]

His normals do the least damage of the entire cast, his specials do the least damage of the entire cast, even his SPD caps out at like 180 damage compared to Zangiefs.



130/140/150/170 for jab/strong/fierce/EX
Basically the normal throw damage range for most characters if you aren't EXing it. Just untechable.

[deviljin102]

Seth is aweseomee!! except when u play as dhalsim and try to beat him on arcade mode =[. total pwnage! took me 3 hours!! lmao..sad..

[TheKingSeth]

If Tandem engine had better startup, it would be very useful move

[evilweevle]

i dunno what do you think the odds are of a new character being the boss character in Super other than seth?

chances are i reckon he ll be one of the characters to have a lot tweaked about him, maybe making him playable from the start,and then we ll get a new unbalanced boss character (but with low health so its ok) to replace him

[clownbot]

Seth is damn good right now but not OP. Nobody in this game is OP. I dont care how much bitching there is about Sagat, Seth, Balrog, Zangief, Akuma, Ryu or even Ken, Bison, Blanka, and Gouken.

However, I must say that my friend punched a hole in his wall because of a Seth player on XBL who kept hitting him with stretchy arms, sonic booms and wall kicks. lol

This same friend destroyed 3 controllers as well because of people online, I know one Blanka player got him so frustrated he smashed and shattered his controller on his face which made him go get stitches for a deep cut on his forehead lmao.

is your friend autistic

[Ultima]

evilweevle:

Ono already said that Seth would return as the boss though.

[evilweevle]

evilweevle:

Ono already said that Seth would return as the boss though.

oh ha ha nevermind then



Seth is damn good right now but not OP. Nobody in this game is OP. I dont care how much bitching there is about Sagat, Seth, Balrog, Zangief, Akuma, Ryu or even Ken, Bison, Blanka, and Gouken.

However, I must say that my friend punched a hole in his wall because of a Seth player on XBL who kept hitting him with stretchy arms, sonic booms and wall kicks. lol

This same friend destroyed 3 controllers as well because of people online, I know one Blanka player got him so frustrated he smashed and shattered his controller on his face which made him go get stitches for a deep cut on his forehead lmao.

wow i think your freind needs to find a new game! mario galaxy or maybe animal crossing ha ha

[Sabin]

Seth is not some top tier god character despite what some people say. How many Seth's win tournaments at local, regional and national levels? How many Seths are there in the top 8 of any major? He NEEDS buffs not nerfs! Just a few ideas of mine:


its really only myself, josh the funk doc, jinrai, and poongko that have done anything at majors with him, but i agree with you



More health 800-850
Harder to stun though not by a lot
Higher damage output on everything, including command throw (but not regular throw)
Faster walking speed
Give him a command overhead move
More prioirity on some attacks (all SRK's for example)
Less Sonic Boom cool down (nothing like Guile, more like Ryu's Hadouken)
Some kind of footsie game.

these changes might actually make seth OP, but we wont know until the game comes out. honestly, i think hes fine as is. he might get extra moves cause theres going to be a shitload of new characters, wed have to wait and see.

but yeah i disagree about the priority on SRK's. he already has the highest priority SRK in the game hands down, you know that right? :P

[x9odosm320bux]

i dont play seth, but he is fun to fight against.. i say leave him alone, maybe slight stamina boost..i am intrested to see his new ultra..

[my_name_is_better]

well if there is any buff i want in seth, i want longer combos. 10 secs are not enough!!! make his magic legs of 100 wtf kicks 7 secs animation!! so people can enjoy watching the movie " Super Street fighter 4, the return of Seth" and his 2 hours of fun and educating COMBOS!!! Make SPD a 9 sec animation!!! let all who face seth rage and quit!!!

Ahem... well.. to me seth is fine, hell if it can satisfy zangief spammers, they can tweak seth a little bit just for them to stop crying.
too bad they dont know that lariat trade to ex green hands is like shoryuken to metso hadouken against seth... or that lariat is itself like hitting a random ultra on your opponent.

[SoVi3t]

Considering there will be newly characters, it would only make sense to include new moves for Seth.

As for previous moves, in Y of his moves need tweaking (positive or negative), with the possible exception of non ex Tandem (I wouldn't make it faster, but definitely leave the opponent "stunned" longer).

He does need a tad more health. Being killed by 2 akuma combos (no meter used) is weak. And his stun has to be fixed. He doesn't need to be a beast, but I would love to see him become truly competitive. He is one of my favourite characters, without a doubt, and needs to be kept in for future SF games.

On a side note, it's pointless to ask for fixes/nerfs until we know whether he gets an updated movelist due to the new characters being added. I would like all his moves to not be EXACTLY like his counterparts (ie-i like his SPD, but it should be uppercut, teleport, Hugo splash instead....his fireball should be a hadoken with a sonic boom inside of it).

[Moopie]

oh ha ha nevermind then




wow i think your freind needs to find a new game! mario galaxy or maybe animal crossing ha ha

Gotta make sure he stays away from that smash brothers though. That big hand at the end can cause some major rage. :looney:

[megadeth078]

I just wanted to chime in with a non-gameplay change that effects seth a lot. Ultra animations, like Seth's (and Juri's) are too long. Speed these up, please.
yup, especially Seth's considering it does no fucking damage.

[Seraphin-Angel]

i dont play seth, but he is fun to fight against.. i say leave him alone, maybe slight stamina boost..i am intrested to see his new ultra..

You'v obviously never fought a good Seth.

[CEO]

its really only myself, josh the funk doc, jinrai, and poongko that have done anything at majors with him, but i agree with you

Yeah, my point being it is you guys as players who do really well. It's like me saying Rose is too good because Phatsaqs is a very good Rose player. Or that Gen is overpowerd because Yeb plays him extremely well. It's the players who make the most of their characters, so Sabin it's your fault people say Seth is op, your just too good with him man, your ruining it for us Seth players! :P


these changes might actually make seth OP, but we wont know until the game comes out. honestly, i think hes fine as is. he might get extra moves cause theres going to be a shitload of new characters, wed have to wait and see.

I just want to clarify that my list was just a few suggestions with only one or two selections to be made from the list. However you do make an excellent point; every character will be re-balanced and there will be many new characters, so any and all changes will have to be made with the abailities of the re-balanced and new characters in mind.


but yeah i disagree about the priority on SRK's. he already has the highest priority SRK in the game hands down, you know that right? :P

lol.

[Shoryu Reppa]

Gef stunning seth in one hit YEEAAAAHHH!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMTlX6jLod0

[fadecy]

Gef stunning seth in one hit YEEAAAAHHH!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMTlX6jLod0Happened to me twice in one match before... Lucky trades off of j.fp....

[RobG Va 703]

hes a tricky one. leave him the same. maybe give him something against blanka and give gief something for the match to be more manageable for him.

[Wonder_Chef]

hes a tricky one. leave him the same. maybe give him something against blanka and give gief something for the match to be more manageable for him.

Something against Blanka? Like maybe being able to punish his horizontal balls on hit?

[fadecy]

Something against Blanka? Like maybe being able to punish his horizontal balls on hit?
lol. Yeah! [/sarcasm]

[Jon Studd]

his deadly imba resets (http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=210809), duh. :rolleyes:

really though, why do you say that studd?

I'm just being paranoid I guess. And it's a very important part of what I do with Seth. From my experiences online, it's good against jump happy Vipers(jump happy characters in general), it's awesome when you predict when zangief is going to jump, decent against a rufus who doesn't have the timing down, it beats bisons headstomps, etc. I think if they listen to the whiners they'll just take that out for a little appeasement.

[Digital-]

If anything buff his health by 100 and stun by 100. That's all I can think of that needs improving.

[SaikyoBeast]

Hooray, someone that gets it! Thank you, Digital-.

Seth's moveset is FINE*. He just gets random'd out kinda easy.

*=great

[Jon Studd]

overhead plz

[America]

overhead plz

j.hp works great

[SaikyoBeast]

overhead plz

j.hp works great

:wtf:

Anyway I stand by what I have said before. All he needs is a little more HP.

[pherai]

lol @ "he is almost broken, so give him 100 more HP"

[9272]

100 more hp might be fine if they adjust his hitboxes on some moves so that they are no longer godlike

[gridman]

Seths moveset allows him to play any style he wants. He is almost too good. I dont have experience fighting strictly Seth mains but my brother Rob (weak sauc3) plays a dirty seth and uh hes a really tough fight. Even when you get in on him, he still has plenty of tools to get you off / or get away from you. I really dont know if hes considered TOO good but I think if more people devoted time to Seth, they'd realize hes better than what most think

I think if they're going to buff his hp / stun, then his moveset needs to be trimmed down a little. It would be too much really.

[Exia 00]

If he had more health he wouldn't have to play such a beastly keep away game :rofl:

More health would be cool. I'm tired of losing cause of one mistake... I'm only human :(

[Novastorm]

I really dont know if hes considered TOO good but I think if more people devoted time to Seth, they'd realize hes better than what most think.

Actually i bet 90% of all the people sending me hatemail about Seth being too good wouldn't be able to beat a decent Sagat or Ryu even after they played for 2 weeks straight using only Seth....if they actually did devote time they'd realise just how nervewrecking it is to play with the lowest HP char in the game, knowing that (for example) if Sagat has hit you twice with a s.HK, you better nog let him land an ultra or you're out, so no i think devoting time to him does not make you "realise he's better" but it might make these haters realise he's not godlike....

[Bisse]

As i see it Seth is a neat character design who is well rounded, his strong zoning game is balanced by his low health and damage output. He has one single problem thoughand that is his j.HP. Now, he definitely should keep it, it fits his game. But while sim also has it the difference between Seth and sim that makes it so overpowered for Seth, is that Seth lands much faster and thus can use it much too often. It allows him to control too much space too effortlessly, but it also allows him to counter most anything way too easily.

It doesn't need to be slowed down or have damage reduced, that's fine as it is. It needs a landing animation.

Check it: as it is, when he lands the stretched arms just magically disappear as he recovers instantly and can do anything he wants. Not only does it look ridiculous but it also creates a ridiculous advantage for him for such an easy-to-do move. What it needs is a landing animation similiar to Ryu landing from an air tatsu, where he simply kneels a bit for about 10 frames. He could still punish most of anything with it, but now he can no longer use it as a constant keepaway tool.

While I don't think it would do a whole lot for the gief matchup I believe such a small, simple change would make fighting him much more tolerable / less infuriating for most of everyone.

[SaikyoBeast]

bisse, it's not used for punishing, it's used for zoning. it wouldn't be a small change. it would be a big stupid change.

i hate this thread so much.

edit

if you want i will go into detail but i really don't feel like trying any more. hopefully capcom knows better.

[Pete278]

As i see it Seth is a neat character design who is well rounded, his strong zoning game is balanced by his low health and damage output. He has one single problem thoughand that is his j.HP. Now, he definitely should keep it, it fits his game. But while sim also has it the difference between Seth and sim that makes it so overpowered for Seth, is that Seth lands much faster and thus can use it much too often. It allows him to control too much space too effortlessly, but it also allows him to counter most anything way too easily.

It doesn't need to be slowed down or have damage reduced, that's fine as it is. It needs a landing animation.

Check it: as it is, when he lands the stretched arms just magically disappear as he recovers instantly and can do anything he wants. Not only does it look ridiculous but it also creates a ridiculous advantage for him for such an easy-to-do move. What it needs is a landing animation similiar to Ryu landing from an air tatsu, where he simply kneels a bit for about 10 frames. He could still punish most of anything with it, but now he can no longer use it as a constant keepaway tool.

While I don't think it would do a whole lot for the gief matchup I believe such a small, simple change would make fighting him much more tolerable / less infuriating for most of everyone.
Far s.hp is used for punishing all fireballs that aren't Sakura and low Tiger Shots and, when SSF4 comes out, Dee Jay's fireballs. J.hp isn't as effective at punishing.

[SoVi3t]

more hp and more cloned moves
he should definitely have some charge moves
*hides*

[I am O]

i would like either

1. completely redesign him, take away copied moves altogether and give him all new original moves like tandem engine, or

2. take away jump up/back fierce, stand fierce, and give him normal life

I like #1.

To the people saying "Seth is my main, don't change him!"... he probably won't be the only one that changes, and Seth players won't be the only ones that feel the need to switch mains.

I think Seth is fine balance wise. But IMO, Seth matches are annoying to play and god awful to watch, and I'm probably not the only one. If my opinion is the popular one than that's reason enough to change him.

[SaikyoBeast]

the thing is he doesn't need to change. if he does change a little for the worse or for the better, fine.

but something you need to realise is that what most people are proposing aren't changes like "trade SRK shouldn't juggle into ultra" or "don't let f+hk juggle into itself". These are changes like "srk fadc ultra shouldn't work" or "tiger knee should always be -10 frames unsafe."

with regards to #1: completely redesigning him means removing a unique character from the game and putting a new one in its place, instead of just creating a new one. as is he doesn't dominate, isn't dominated, and takes skill to play well. Should we remove 'sim because even though he's fine balance wise, it's annoying to play against him and often boring to watch him be played?

This is the kind of ignorance that caused algol to get banned.

edit

by which i mean inexperience with the character and treating him as if he's the only character with good moves instead of comparing him against the rest of the cast (or at least the top tier).

[PapaRhino]

Keep all his moves and frames, give him 50-100 more stamina and stun and we're good. That's really all he needs.

[rahmoan]

he has way too many moves to be stronger..though 750 is pretty bad lmao

[Novastorm]

he has way too many moves to be stronger..though 750 is pretty bad lmao

Gouken - total moves in framedata list: 73, 1000HP
Abel - total moves in framedata list: 62, 1100HP
Akuma - total moves in framedata list: 67, 850HP
El Fuerte - total moves in framedata list: 66, 900HP
Seth - total moves in framedata list: 61, 750HP

So using your theory Gouken, Abel, Akuma and Elf all should have less than 750HP....tell you what, let's just add 100HP to Seth and call it even eh?

[Jon Studd]

Gouken - total moves in framedata list: 73, 1000HP
Abel - total moves in framedata list: 62, 1100HP
Akuma - total moves in framedata list: 67, 850HP
El Fuerte - total moves in framedata list: 66, 900HP
Seth - total moves in framedata list: 61, 750HP

So using your theory Gouken, Abel, Akuma and Elf all should have less than 750HP....tell you what, let's just add 100HP to Seth and call it even eh?

http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac97/jon_studd/claphandss.gif

[SoVi3t]

I don't see why people seem to feel he needs NEW moves. The whole awesomeness of Seth is his moves are awesomeness personified, just ultra weak, and he has a worse glass jaw than Glass Jaw Joe from punchout.

Anywho, how can people say that changes to him would make them change mains

People actually MAIN seth? He's a great character, don't get me wrong, but I highly doubt anybody here REALLY mains him like a beast, with the exception of a handful of scrubs.
And aside from the aforementioned stupid idea of changing his movelist (rather than my idea of ADDING to it, which seems more likely considering the Ono interview), there would be no reason to drop him in SSFIV

[Mike Tyson]

everyone is getting buffed in the new game probably. with seth I think they should give him a bit more health and then leave it at that. maybe make his ultra a touch more damaging. nothing too drastic, he is one of the stronger characters already, just give him a bit more life to deal with the stronger cast and he should be pretty balanced.

[SaikyoBeast]

People actually MAIN seth? He's a great character, don't get me wrong, but I highly doubt anybody here REALLY mains him like a beast, with the exception of a handful of scrubs.

...

Yeah, fuck you too buddy. :rofl:

[Nyoronoru]

People actually MAIN seth? He's a great character, don't get me wrong, but I highly doubt anybody here REALLY mains him like a beast, with the exception of a handful of scrubs.

LOL QUE? There's a person I'd like you to meet, he's called Sanchez... It's one of his dual mains.

[Novastorm]

People actually MAIN seth? He's a great character, don't get me wrong, but I highly doubt anybody here REALLY mains him like a beast, with the exception of a handful of scrubs.

I have typed up and then deleted so many things i want to say here, but words fail to describe how stupid you sound....

[Chrisis]

I'd main him if I didn't have stupid hands, until the day I hit all my DPs on quick reactions without problem with the stability of Barlog is where I lie. >.<

More seriously. For EX hyakuretsu Kyaku would having it launch up as opposed to back be too much? Allow it to be followed with stomp combos mid screen. this would give people a lot more to fear when doing EX rush punches or mid screen fireballs.

[SaikyoBeast]

ex legs being a launcher would be crazy... i can already think of a bunch of stupid awesome combos we could get from that...

[DDD]

the only thing i don't like about his moves are his non ex shouryuken, i want them to hit once.

Ex should be left the way it is.

[Killer_Jigglypuff]

Seth's Ultra needs a SLIGHT, SLIGHT damage increase: A Zangief SPD seems like it does more damage. (Forgive me for being unfamiliar with all the damage levels and whatnot, see my title for reference)

[humbag]

Seth's Ultra needs a SLIGHT, SLIGHT damage increase: A Zangief SPD seems like it does more damage. (Forgive me for being unfamiliar with all the damage levels and whatnot, see my title for reference)

Seths ultra is the best in the game.

You control the entire screen with it. Its damage is fine.

[Killer_Jigglypuff]

I won't disagree with you on its utility. It essentially removes fireballs and jump ins and punishes most anything.

The thing is animated slower than King Zora scooting over however. Seems like a lot of buildup for such crap damage. Not really a huge concern though, I was hesitant to even suggest it.

[robotic elf]

I won't disagree with you on its utility. It essentially removes fireballs and jump ins and punishes most anything.

The thing is animated slower than King Zora scooting over however. Seems like a lot of buildup for such crap damage. Not really a huge concern though, I was hesitant to even suggest it.

Actually people have complained about this before. Their solution to this was to lower the time it takes instead of raising the damage however.

[Killer_Jigglypuff]

That works too.

Seth could deal with a SLIGHT health increase as well. Sagat shouldn't get a third of my bar from one correctly guessed (I.E. SUPER SHORTCUT MASHAN) h.TU

[Infil]

If Seth gets an increase in health, he needs to lose some of his tools. He's too good at every aspect of the game (zoning, runaway, mixups, pressure game) to have better health than he has now.

I can see them taking away neutral jump fierce, making his ultra travel across the screen a little slower, giving him a slower teleport, and making his walljump slower, then giving him 100 more health.

I don't know, I see Seth kind of being redesigned a bit in SSF4. I don't think he'll play the same at all.

[D1KDTHS]

Honestly, in my opinion playable Seth is simply a poorly designed character. Fighting him is not an enjoyable experience for me, regardless of who I happen to be playing as at the time for a few reasons, and it's not because I think he's overpowered. Giving a character a broken as fuck moveset and compensating for it by giving his absolutely awful health is a terrible way to balance a character in my opinion. Sure it makes them fair and balanced, but it's like you're fighting ST Akuma with a glass jaw.

I don't think any character should have such an outstanding move set that their health needs to be 750 to compensate. It makes for gameplay that just isn't fun. Seth's tools often make it very difficult to do anything but wait for a mistake, and that is truly a bore. I'm not suggesting that Seth is the only character or matchup that causes lackluster gameplay, but in nearly any matchup against Seth, his opponent finds that he's better off doing nothing and waiting for the 3-4 punishes he needs to win. This stigma is significantly enhanced when Seth has ultra. At that point, you REALLY can't do anything without taking a hit.

My hope for Seth changes in SSF4 is for his moveset to be nerfed and his health to be buffed. I'd like to see him up to 900 or so if possible. I'll refrain from stating my opinion and what should be nerfed to compensate, seeing as no matter what I suggest, I'll get flamed for it.

[Jon Studd]

I could be wrong here but is seems Seth is the only character having SERIOUS suggestions of having their entire game taken away.

[Raist]

Anyways I'm almost sure that he will repeat game again, capcom uses to do such things.

[Gumpool]

I think that many people who complain about seth doesn't know jack shit about him and how to play/fight him I suggest that you try seth out and you'll see that it isn't a walk in the park 'cause

I bet most people in here complaining about seth are buttohn mashars (ryu, ken or sagat players) just getting butt hurt for being raped by a seth in the g-2 finals "omg my buttahn masshing tactics diedn't woerk...omg sethh iz toe ovah powarad"

just learn the matchup and quit being a little biggity bitch
we seth players never complain when we get caught in a srk fadc ultra or some heavier attack making us lose the game....you know what we do?

we learn from our misstakes..."OHH NOES!!! I CAN'T BUTTAHN MASH??????? I NEED TO LEERN GAME?????!!!!!! WTF!!!!"



and for the people who are going to give me bad rep...u mad?

[SoVi3t]

...

Yeah, fuck you too buddy. :rofl:

it was supposed to be meant sorta sarcastically. I reread it now, and it doesn't seem as sarcastic as last time i read it

I was referring to the fact that their really isn't anybody who EXCLUSIVELY mains Seth. Maybe a lot of the people here DO main seth, and only seth. But for most people I know who play with him (myself included), he's more of a dual main, and it would take something REALLY drastic (rather than "sorry we decided to keep his health/stun right where it is") to make people drop him (as previous posters were stating)

[Elliott]

Various bullshit

You have terrible, terrible ideas.

[Killer_Jigglypuff]

You have terrible, terrible ideas.

Probably. I know next to nothing about SF really, I'm here to learn. Sorry if I don't have all the frame data and exact usages of moves memorized, I'm just a below-average player who came here to try and learn from those who do and improve my game. Heaven forbid I have some misconceptions.

[DJ Showdown]

Give him raging demon, air fireballs, tiger knee, hundred hand slap and 1000 health.

:D

In all seriousness, leave him alone, any tweaking is gonna seriously fuck him up. Most players can have a good scrap with him anyway. If the the only real reason that people have for changing him is 'Zangief cannot beat him' then there really is no debate, he shouldn't be changed.

Maybe a slight increase in health but other than that I think he is pretty much fine as is.

[Shadow Ace 50]

more health or GTFO....that is all

[GoatHead]

I think it would cool if Seth's 2nd ultra is one of the ultras (I'd pick the original ultra prior to whatever SSFIV will change) of his opponent.

It would feed into the whole "collecting data of other fighters" theme nicely.

Would it make Seth absolutely ridiculous? Maybe. Probably. Hopefully. But it would add a huge dimension to the fighting strategy.

[epikbeat]

this isn't really an opinion but.. I was just thinking about this. Is it logical to say that you could deduce new moves that would be added to seth by thinking this way; seth only gets the moves of people he could defeat.. As in if you think about all the copied moves he has, he doesn't have any moves of characters that we think could beat him with the exception of kens multi hit srk (that's where I think he got it from anyway, debateable whether or not ken would beat seth). He has things like guiles sonic booms but not goukens, akumas, or ryus hadouken. He has a command throw like gief, wall jumps like vega/chun .. Etc etc ( a lot of secondary characters, but no top tier characters like sagat, bison, ryu ) ..
this might sound all over the place but I'm on my phone so its hard to explain. So seth would not get things like ryus specialty moves, akumas air fireballs, sagats moves, gens moves..


based on that. I think hell get something like a dive type kick like rufus or cammy, honda's hhs, or some shit like that. Tell me what you think of my theory. Sorry if its been thougt of already. I don't really look into seth.

[Sleazoid]

I think hell get something like a dive type kick like rufus or cammy

Seth already has a dive kick. :coffee:

[SaikyoBeast]

He has chun's stomps and hyakuretsukyaku(sp? lolz), a dive kick like akuma, charlie's sonic boom, dhalsim's limbs, bison's teleport, urien's chariot tackle (and a good deal of his normals), a j.mp very similar to ryu's, honda's splash, and I know I'm missing a lot of stuff but...

I don't like that theory very much. It seems silly.

I think it would cool if Seth's 2nd ultra is one of the ultras (I'd pick the original ultra prior to whatever SSFIV will change) of his opponent.

It would feed into the whole "collecting data of other fighters" theme nicely.

Would it make Seth absolutely ridiculous? Maybe. Probably. Hopefully. But it would add a huge dimension to the fighting strategy.

also silly. his super and ultra are unique; i'd hate to see them to go to a cop-out like this.

[WestCoastNinja]

Ultras are supposed to be cinematic...but I do agree. Gets old after awhile. Landed FOUR ultras on an Akuma yesterday. Shorten that up a bit.

And give Seth purple and black colors. :B

[AuthenticMM]

Seth's ultra does less damage if hitting opponents at the peak range while they're in the air. I would prefer they made it do full all the time. It already doesn't hit that hard.

[DanielRGT]

Seth's ultra does less damage if hitting opponents at the peak range while they're in the air. I would prefer they made it do full all the time. It already doesn't hit that hard.

That's because hitting people with Seth's ultra isn't exactly hard. The damage it does is fine, no reason to make it do more.

[SaikyoBeast]

That's because hitting people with Seth's ultra isn't exactly hard. The damage it does is fine, no reason to make it do more.

uhh, no. when the "glitch" happens you get like half damage from the ultra. i say "glitch" because it might have been intentional but it's still dumb. it also happens sometimes when you juggle into it or push them through a sonic boom with it.

[DDD]

I can see them taking away neutral jump fierce, making his ultra travel across the screen a little slower, giving him a slower teleport, and making his walljump slower, then giving him 100 more health.

.
Make him suck for 3 or 4 jabs worth of health?

:lame:

[Fudge Doctor]

Noooo! Don't harm Seth!

In other words. I like him as is.

[link123a]

Seth is definitely a strange case. He feels one buff away from being broken, and one nerf away from being useless

LMAO, idk why this is so funny to me

anyways, ya man, its tough to say what he needs / doesn't need

but im going to go out the limb and say he should get some more health
but the thought of having a jumping dahlism seth with more health makes cringe

very touchy subject indeed

[epikbeat]

Seth already has a dive kick. :coffee:

Oh really? Never seen it. You think you would see people spam it like they do with cammy or rufus.

[Fudge Doctor]

Oh really? Never seen it. You think you would see people spam it like they do with cammy or rufus.

You'll see why people don't spam it if you try it. Im not sure how to describe why it isnt spammable. D+FK in the air.

[Seraphin-Angel]

Oh really? Never seen it. You think you would see people spam it like they do with cammy or rufus.

It resembles Akumas divekick ( not demonflip) more then Rufus's , so yeah not really spammable.Also I agree with the fix the ultra glitch if they hit a fireball during the animation , I mean ok it can hit full screen but with the glitch sometimes seths ultra takes 140 damage , and thats pathetic.

[Fudge Doctor]

It resembles Akumas divekick ( not demonflip) more then Rufus's , so yeah not really spammable.Also I agree with the fix the ultra glitch if they hit a fireball during the animation , I mean ok it can hit full screen but with the glitch sometimes seths ultra takes 140 damage , and thats pathetic.

I avoid that "glitch" with FP fireball, by the time they jump over and get hit with the ultra the FP Sonic Boom has gone and they'll get the full 22/21 hits.

There's nothing i can think of id like for Seth, maybe less stun or more health.

[CEO]

Wow some of these suggestions for nerfing Seth are just ridiculous, if Capcom followed through with certain peoples' ideas Dan would be a better character then Seth; that's how much your ideas/suggestions would kill him.

[Jon Studd]

Wow some of these suggestions for nerfing Seth are just ridiculous, if Capcom followed through with certain peoples' ideas Dan would be a better character then Seth; that's how much your ideas/suggestions would kill him.

Yeah really. Ryu is "perfectly balance" but Seth needs to be nerfed? Give me a fucking break.

[SaikyoBeast]

You'll see why people don't spam it if you try it. Im not sure how to describe why it isnt spammable. D+FK in the air.


It resembles Akumas divekick ( not demonflip) more then Rufus's , so yeah not really spammable.

I spam the fuck out of it. :smokin:

[Metroxylon]

What would you all think if Capcom got rid of Seth's stretchy arms, and they were replaced with an air teleport and he was given average health? What about Akuma level health?

Considering he can only dive kick from the top of a jump arc leads me to think he couldn't do it out of an IAT, or any teleport not at his max height, so that's my only concern for an air teleport being a OP factor.

Personally, I'd rather he had an air teleport over stretchy arms, because they come out so fast, and his jump speed is fast which makes running away as him easy as hell vs certain characters/players.

[CEO]

What would you all think if Capcom got rid of Seth's stretchy arms, and they were replaced with an air teleport and he was given average health? What about Akuma level health?

Considering he can only dive kick from the top of a jump arc leads me to think he couldn't do it out of an IAT, or any teleport not at his max height, so that's my only concern for an air teleport being a OP factor.

Personally, I'd rather he had an air teleport over stretchy arms, because they come out so fast, and his jump speed is fast which makes running away as him easy as hell vs certain characters/players.

Seth has no footsie game, so he NEEDS stretchy arms for zoning. Taking away Seth's stretchy arms is like making him a different character, even for an air teleport I don't think it would be woth it.

[arstal]

Wow some of these suggestions for nerfing Seth are just ridiculous, if Capcom followed through with certain peoples' ideas Dan would be a better character then Seth; that's how much your ideas/suggestions would kill him.

I think most players would be fine with that. Seth is just that unlikable of a design.

My idea for Seth:

Make him Urien. Everyone's happier.

[Henaki]

i heard seth isnt in ssf4

that or someone really likes trolling keits irl

[SaikyoBeast]

I think most players would be fine with that. Seth is just that unlikable of a design.

My idea for Seth:

Make him Urien. Everyone's happier.

:bluu:


i heard seth isnt in ssf4

that or someone really likes trolling keits irl

:bluu:



What would you all think if Capcom got rid of Seth's stretchy arms, and they were replaced with an air teleport and he was given average health? What about Akuma level health?

Considering he can only dive kick from the top of a jump arc leads me to think he couldn't do it out of an IAT, or any teleport not at his max height, so that's my only concern for an air teleport being a OP factor.

Personally, I'd rather he had an air teleport over stretchy arms, because they come out so fast, and his jump speed is fast which makes running away as him easy as hell vs certain characters/players.

Air teleport is really lolz.

You can't just abuse j.HP against anyone in the cast. If your opponent doesn't suck or has any experience with seth, you have to be smart about it or you lose for free. That doesn't mean you can't use it, that just means that if you don't vary your timing or bait with empty jumps you're going to get punched in the fucking fist and it will hurt.

[CEO]

I think most players would be fine with that. Seth is just that unlikable of a design.

You mean most bad players. I picked Seth because I liked his design.


My idea for Seth:

Make him Urien. Everyone's happier.

I wouldn't be happier; neither would almost any Seth player and anyone who is an intelligent, repectful person. How would you like it if your main was removed? Urien cannot replace Seth, they play very differently and Urien is a charge character. I see nothing wrong with having Urien in the game if Capcom can successfully implement his play style, I just don't think it should be instead of an original SFIV character.

[Iduno]

I don't see why people seem to feel he needs NEW moves. The whole awesomeness of Seth is his moves are awesomeness personified, just ultra weak, and he has a worse glass jaw than Glass Jaw Joe from punchout.

Anywho, how can people say that changes to him would make them change mains

People actually MAIN seth? He's a great character, don't get me wrong, but I highly doubt anybody here REALLY mains him like a beast, with the exception of a handful of scrubs.
And aside from the aforementioned stupid idea of changing his movelist (rather than my idea of ADDING to it, which seems more likely considering the Ono interview), there would be no reason to drop him in SSFIV

Yes most people don't main Seth like beasts and instead main him like humans which makes them infinately better at it because beasts don't have thumbs.

Also I think that although Seth is fine as he is now he should get something a bit better (personaly I'd go for a little more health of stun) simply because the other characters would probably be getting buffed as well and we wouldn't want him left behind.

[Reipin Pillage]

i heard seth isnt in ssf4

that or someone really likes trolling keits irl

I'd be really surprised if they removed a playable character. As in, dismayed and shocked.

Has any series lost characters from one iteration to the next?

[Metroxylon]

Air teleport is really lolz.

You can't just abuse j.HP against anyone in the cast. If your opponent doesn't suck or has any experience with seth, you have to be smart about it or you lose for free. That doesn't mean you can't use it, that just means that if you don't vary your timing or bait with empty jumps you're going to get punched in the fucking fist and it will hurt.

I don't see what's so lolz about it. I suggest replacing one Sim aspect with another. And I know when using j.HP it shouldn't be used predictably. It's just one of the things that makes approaching him hard to do. So my recommendation was basically to make him more approachable, more like a regular character.

And Seth does have footsies. You know what you're talking about, whoever said that?

[DHEvil]

I'd be really surprised if they removed a playable character. As in, dismayed and shocked.

Has any series lost characters from one iteration to the next?

King of Fighters :D

[SaikyoBeast]

I don't see what's so lolz about it. I suggest replacing one Sim aspect with another. And I know when using j.HP it shouldn't be used predictably. It's just one of the things that makes approaching him hard to do. So my recommendation was basically to make him more approachable, more like a regular character.

And Seth does have footsies. You know what you're talking about, whoever said that?

Air teleport would be interesting to have and fun to use. That's why it is lolz.

I think it's silly to argue he should be "more approachable, more like a regular character". Do you mean regular like dhalsim, regular like zangief, or regular like guile? Should he be approachable like Sagat? I'd be fine with that, I guess.

TBH, if you gave seth normal health but took away his fierce, then I think he would still be playable, even with his shitty normals, shitty projectile, and shitty damage.

What bugs me the most is how you're willing to speak in favor of a major change to his gameplay when there's been no good reason given to do so. Sagat zones better and Rufus rushes down better. This wouldn't change if you eliminated Seth's fierce punch.

I mean shit, if we don't need a good reason to do it, why not take away abel's f+mk and give him a projectile? Let's give cammy a command throw and remove the ability to TK CS.

Sorry for being a smartass (kinda) but I'm very frustrated by the way this thread has been. There's been very little intelligent discussion and shitloads of scrubtastic hate.

I'd like to avoid too much more of that. So let's move on from here: we have already agreed that Seth can't just throw his stretchy arms out for free damage. Therefore I'm pretty sure all it is, is a decent zoning tool. Why then must it be removed?

[Mr. Basara!!]

Air teleport would be interesting to have and fun to use. That's why it is lolz.

I think it's silly to argue he should be "more approachable, more like a regular character". Do you mean regular like dhalsim, regular like zangief, or regular like guile? Should he be approachable like Sagat? I'd be fine with that, I guess.

TBH, if you gave seth normal health but took away his fierce, then I think he would still be playable, even with his shitty normals, shitty projectile, and shitty damage.

What bugs me the most is how you're willing to speak in favor of a major change to his gameplay when there's been no good reason given to do so. Sagat zones better and Rufus rushes down better. This wouldn't change if you eliminated Seth's fierce punch.

I mean shit, if we don't need a good reason to do it, why not take away abel's f+mk and give him a projectile? Let's give cammy a command throw and remove the ability to TK CS.

Sorry for being a smartass (kinda) but I'm very frustrated by the way this thread has been. There's been very little intelligent discussion and shitloads of scrubtastic hate.

I'd like to avoid too much more of that. So let's move on from here: we have already agreed that Seth can't just throw his stretchy arms out for free damage. Therefore I'm pretty sure all it is, is a decent zoning tool. Why then must it be removed?

Is this the only "Improvements" thread you've been in? It's like that in all of them

People just come in and yell "I WANT THIS MOVE!" but don't say what it should do or why the character needs it.

Or they say "NERF THIS CUZ I LOSE TO IT!" and don't give any valid reason to why that nerf needs to exist or what will be buffed in its place. I know you're suppose to take a lot of things with a grain of salt, but I hope the poor sap from Capcom who gets stuck reading this has a whole damn case of Morton's with him...

To be on topic...
I think Seth is alright overall. I can't really think of anything to do for him. Seems like he's just about right how he is now. He doesn't dominate (unless your name is Gief), but he certainly doesn't get owned for free.

[SaikyoBeast]

Is this the only "Improvements" thread you've been in? It's like that in all of them

People just come in and yell "I WANT THIS MOVE!" but don't say what it should do or why the character needs it.

Or they say "NERF THIS CUZ I LOSE TO IT!" and don't give any valid reason to why that nerf needs to exist or what will be buffed in its place. I know you're suppose to take a lot of things with a grain of salt, but I hope the poor sap from Capcom who gets stuck reading this has a whole damn case of Morton's with him...

No it's not the only one I've read or continue to read, but I've spent a few hundred hours with the character so this stuff kind of hits me more than the :crybaby: in the Ryu thread does.

I must hate myself to keep reading them but I feel like in case there is someone on capcom's end looking at this shit and making the mistake of thinking these people know what they're talking about, I should speak up.


To be on topic...
I think Seth is alright overall. I can't really think of anything to do for him. Seems like he's just about right how he is now. He doesn't dominate (unless your name is Gief), but he certainly doesn't get owned for free.

Exactly. No Seth player in this thread has complained about any of his matchups. Well, that's not entirely true. I hate fighting 'gief because it's really no fun for either player. But then that's true for most of that gief's matchups.

[Nitro263]

Seth needs no health increase at all. That's the trade off for arguably the best tool set in the game.

Personally, I don't think he needs any nerfs or buffs at all. He's a character that's fun to play, boring to fight against, and is balanced in a horrible way, but it works. His tools and combos are amazing, to balance he got a glass jaw and punches that tickle.

I've seen things like "give him more HP", but just like there's not much justification for taking anything out (aside from the generalized "remove it cause I lose to it" that people accuse others of in here), I'm not seeing any justification for buffing him either (other than "because I lose in like 4 hits").

It's just the way the character is.

[TheJokerCPC]

Seth is fine how he is, he just needs to be made unselectable hahahaha

[lqstuart]

they should make his alt a suit and leave his original costume the same except give him a giant horse cock that swings around

[SaikyoBeast]

they should make his alt a suit and leave his original costume the same except give him a giant horse cock that swings around

Take away j.HP and give him j.HPenis. :shy:

[9272]

Like i said before, if they change anything it ought to be increasing his life in exchange for changing his hitboxes so that they are no longer godly.

Then he'd be easier to hit, and the people playing him wouldn't feel like they lose if they make one mistake

[SaikyoBeast]

wtf? godly hitboxes? lol

[Melvargh]

Like i said before, if they change anything it ought to be increasing his life in exchange for changing his hitboxes so that they are no longer godly.

Then he'd be easier to hit, and the people playing him wouldn't feel like they lose if they make one mistake
Godly hitboxes? What are you talking about?

[.Cobra]

i heard seth isnt in ssf4

Then why would they show him in the trailer...?

[Chrisis]

Godly hit boxes? Play as Rog for half an hour against Seth and you'll see how shitty a lot of his hit boxes are and why in that match running like a bizzle is likely one's best option. jumping fierce gets AAd quite easily, standing fierce is punishable on block by a lot of characters, jump roundhouse as cross up lets some weird AA's hit him. Over all his moves aren't particularly awful or awesome.

If we wanted his normals to have godly hit boxes he'd get...

Balrog or Akuma's sweep.
WW Guile's jabs.
Balrog's crouch jab.
Shoto low forward.
etc.

Speaking of which though, are there any new non OP normals he should get?

[Metroxylon]

Air teleport would be interesting to have and fun to use. That's why it is lolz.

I think it's silly to argue he should be "more approachable, more like a regular character". Do you mean regular like dhalsim, regular like zangief, or regular like guile? Should he be approachable like Sagat? I'd be fine with that, I guess.

TBH, if you gave seth normal health but took away his fierce, then I think he would still be playable, even with his shitty normals, shitty projectile, and shitty damage.

So let's move on from here: we have already agreed that Seth can't just throw his stretchy arms out for free damage. Therefore I'm pretty sure all it is, is a decent zoning tool. Why then must it be removed?

Sorry. I didn't have time to elaborate. I brought up air teleport because it'd be a tool obtained from Dhalsim, and I don't feel it'd be right for him to take so many Dhalsim essentials away from Dhalsim. So I just thought of trading one for the other. Imagine if he did have J.HP, S.HP, great jump speed, and an air teleport. That seems to be borderline breaking factor. Especially if he could IAT tick into SPD. :wow:

Also his jumping stretchy arms aren't that great. they only hit me when I try to beat, avoid, or trade with them as Rose. otherwise I'm block city. :china:

I'm not a Seth hater. We share the name, and he's fun to play. I hope I cleared up the confusion with that. However I wonder what his nj.HP/jb.HP/s.HP would be if not stretchy arms. like who has the 2nd best HP to Dhalsim to make it seem like it's something Seth would want to use?

Anybody know where Seth's jf.HP came from? I can't think of who punches like that in the air. Makes me think Capcom could just make all his HP original if they do give him air teleport.

Now that I think about it, it might be best to keep Seth as is. If he were to have air teleport along with that, then I think the compromise of HP limb shortening would have to be made at least.

[SaikyoBeast]

Leave as is?

:china:

I don't even want air TP. It would be cool but it's quite unnecessary. =-P

[WestCoastNinja]

@metro- I think his foward jump FP is taken from Urien.

[Jon Studd]

Take away j.HP and give him j.HPenis. :shy:

oh lawd, I spit my ice cream out in laughter

[9272]

Godly hitboxes? What are you talking about?

Does he not have the best jumpins in the game? Everyone else in the game is far far easier to anti-air than he is(aside from when i'm using airthrow) and that really makes sense since he can't take many hits....right?

Justn thought that ought to be changed a little is all, if anything is to be done

[Chrisis]

His jump ins are fairly good, but I think that Rog and Chun are superior on that front. All your default anti airs should work against his moves other than stomp which needs special spacing to not be as easily smackable.

[The_human_pate]

Give Seth the T Hawk dive and Dee Jays uppkicks that can juggle after a light shoryuken








/sarcasm

[Gus]

FADC legs on block and shorten the whole tv stomach thing.

[Mnszyk]

replace tv stomach thing with a different ultra. make ex boom an aegis reflector like thing.

[AznDreamer]

well, whatever the complaints are . . . we all have heard he'll be more frustrating to beat. LoLz, that means he's getting a major buff??? Holy shit . . . I already have a pretty hard time with him playing AS Gief . . . so he'll be harder to beat in arcade mode?? Damn hope Gief gets some good buffs then cuz Seth's is his worse match up in the game.

[SaikyoBeast]

whenever the devs talk about seth it's safe to assume they mean arcade mode unless they specify "as a playable character" or some such

[Kich]

Does he not have the best jumpins in the game? Everyone else in the game is far far easier to anti-air than he is(aside from when i'm using airthrow) and that really makes sense since he can't take many hits....right?

Justn thought that ought to be changed a little is all, if anything is to be done

The reason for that is the angle of the jump and the speed at which it comes at you. Despite that, he's actually pretty easy to hit if you're on point about it. Even if you trade, it's so heavily stacked in your favor it's unreal.

[d3capitat3dbodyz]

seth is fine the way he is(maybe more stamina and stun)..it sucks getting wrecked in 2 combos..put his hp and stun same as akuma.

i wonder what his second ultra would be.

[9272]

His jump ins are fairly good, but I think that Rog and Chun are superior on that front. All your default anti airs should work against his moves other than stomp which needs special spacing to not be as easily smackable.

Meh, in my experience both are far easier to anti-air, and i also see far less professional matchups where either of those two jump around half as often as seth. Ofcourse i'm speaking of his off the wall jump most often

[SoVi3t]

i wonder what his second ultra would be.

I am guessing:
a) something similar to Dans Ultra (big combo that really only hits whats right in front of him)
b) raging demon type move
c) SUPER lightning legs