SFA3: Cammy

[jreinert13]

I don't see anything on her so hopefully someone can help with her in this game. I hope this thread gets some responses because I know she's extremely umpopular in this game.

From 30 min of using her I come to the realization that she is not that great of a character. But my oponents are CPU and kaillera kids so that's not a worry.

What's her best ism? I just use her in V because of the command normals. I haven't figured out a good full screen VC yet though.

Bread and Butter? Uhh so far all I come up with is C.jabx2 -> Cannon Spike.

Specials:
Cannon Spike seems to be very effective.
Cannon Drill seems like garbage, doesn't go under fireballs, jab version is easily punished...I'm not even sure if it hits low(but it HAS to)
Air strke grab special is slow and almost useless.
Her down air kick is horrible, can't combo after it and if it's blocked you are fucked.


So what does she have??
So far all I see is a couple of good normals and cannon spike....somebody please help me.

[mondu_the_fat]

midscreen:

VC1 -> (RK Cannon Spike -> RK Cannon Drill -> crouching FP) repeat until corner

corner:

VCany (experiment) -> (Cannon Spike) repeat

On specials:

Cannon Spike is ok, but compared to, say, multihit anti-air like Akuma's, Ken's, or Gen's, it suffers greatly from a VC drop-through.

Cannon Drill is not that useful, even within combos. It has funky hits, and there will be times when you swear it should have combo'd but didn't, leaving you in big trouble.

Also, between Cammy/Juni/Juli, Juni definitely rules. She has pretty much the same moves and VCs, but Juni has more options, as well dishing out some damaging throws.

[glass]

i've been trying to learn cammy but couldn't find any decent VCs.

- pokes i use are stand forward, low forward, stand roundhouse, stand fierce.
- gotta love her walking speed. walk in and out FK is cute. throw a lot too i guess.
- far SP is bufferable (eg c.JP c.JP SP xx SK.drill).

Qs;
- are her counters really worth using?
- any idea how to land the KBA (Z-ism L3)? i thought anti-air counterhit SP xx KBA would do it, but no luck..
- her spinning knuckle move... is it any good..?

[js2756]

Instead of repeated cannon spikes in the corner VC, wouldn't it be better to do:
[Cannon Spike, st. HP] repeat

I don't really know how the damage compares, and the timing is kinda wierd, so if someone could clarify, it'd be much appreciated.

[jreinert13]

Well after 2 days I pretty much have Cammy's basics down.
Her Corner VC's are pretty easy, mostly cannon spikes, B+Fierce's and cannon drills.
Her midscreen I've gotten a couple of times, I need a little more practice with that
But what about Guard Break VC's??? Havent found any yet. If she had that HCB+Punch move in this game that would've been helpful...

Her counter(s?) I haven't used against human opponents yet, so I don't know how effective they are. I was just surprised she had them..weird.

Her B & B is: C.Short->C.Jab->Roundhouse Cannon Spike

Her S.Roundhouse seems to have high priority, which helps her game a lot.

I have gotten her Back+Fierce->Crouch+Forward to combo a couple of times(not on counter hits). That is useful to know especially for guard break strings.

EDIT: Oh yea fighting Juli and Juni at the end was amazing...I didn't think this game had endings like that.

[glass]

k... does anyone know if she had an unblockable VC? i just remembered she had the hooligan roll grab thingy. maybe she could setup a shadow spike/drill/etc so it juggles upon hooligan's release?

jreinert13:
b.FP > c.FK is a link? i didn't know that..

but she has the hcb+P in other isms. frankly i don't know how useful it is, since it's so goddamned slow and the invinicibility area is still fuzzy to me. what does it do..? i'm guessing u could force something like a mixup guessing game from halfscreen away between her hooligan roll, cannon drill and the spin knuckle, but i don't know much bout it.

eh... if anyone's having trouble with the counters, it's all about the hit area, not the timing. i dunno why i just mentioned that..

[jreinert13]

The Back+Fierce->C.Forward link is a little hard but I think it will just take a little practice to get it down.

Unblockables?? hmm I don't know too much about this game...I should probably read James Chen FAQ to save me some time.
She has no overhead attack that I can think of(down kick?) so it would have to be a hooligan grab.
but I don't know the properties or her hooligan yet.
Can it grab Crouching oppponents?
Or maybe she can do VC2 or 3 cannon spike then jump air strike kick...if that's an overhead?(which I hope to god it is, then there will some use of it)

[GianL]

hey it so happens i have been playing A-Cammy for the past three months on kaillera..I might have a few useful tips to add, I certainly would love to share toughts with anyone on Cammy.


Cannon Drill seems like garbage, doesn't go under fireballs, jab version is easily punished...I'm not even sure if it hits low(but it HAS to)

the RK version will go under fireballs ánd hit low at the last part.

That takes me to the fact that in my view the Spiral Arrow (aka Cannon Spike) is her best move. I will elaborate. It's very useful as a sort of long range poke. It's so fast that the opponent has to anticipate it to counter it. When you do use it as a poke, then always use it at its full extent, just tick wit your toes. This will leave you out of their sweep range. This goes for all three.
Also, be careful never use it upclose unless in combos, thats just a guaranteed opening for the opponent.

Keep in mind that the SK version has minimal recovery and is an annoying poke. The FK version can be from further away, it's useful but don't get predictable. The RK version is indeed useful from its full range because when an opponent retaliates with a fireball you will go under it.

You should keep mixing up spiral arrows with walking back and forth, s.RK and sometimes far s.FP. the fact that anticipating the spiral arrow would hit it clean could lead an opponent into throwing a fireball in anticipation, which is an opening for your jump-in combo. the opponent will have to take a big risk to counter your spiral arrow before it connects. if the opponents gets tired of blocking and wants to retaliate with a sweep, special or even SC/VC. you will be out of range. all this sums up the spiral arrow being a hella annoying poke.

this midrange game of walking back and forth, s.arrows, RK's and far FP's is completed with some extra tactics.
1.a sporadic hooligan combo (very confusing, but easy to counter, good damage, making this a supplemental move).
2.when you get close to the opponent, say after a blocked s.arrow you can go for a cross-up combo with j.SK.
its quite hard to land against a wary opponent, the hitbox is very small and hitframes are a very short period (this is an SK after all) compared to the cross-ups of Sakura and Ken for example. in other words practice your positioning and when you do control it, still don't use it too much:p
3.JP Spin Knucle. Key to this move is that its first frames are NOT invincible, then the invinciblity window follws and when the backfist comes out shes vulnerable again. In midrange to close the JP and SP are useful. i prefer the JP one because for that one the invincibility sets in reasonably fast for you to use it against pokes reactively. another thing you should notice is that you should never use it upclose, same as for the s.arrow.

tick throws (love em): when you get close enough, cammy has a set of moves that are fast coming out an retracting but very limited in range. c.JP, c.SP and c.SK make for excellent in your face poking after which you can quickly walk in and throw em. note that Cammy has a very good throw range, I sense it just a little bigger than Charlie's if that helps, but you should get used to it immediately. Cammy's throws deal fat damage. after a throw into the corner. follow up with an immediate hooligan combo for extra damage the second they get up.

speaking of throws, combined with her jumping speed/range and throw damage, cammy's air throws are a great weapon as well. could be used as a late anti-air, if you sense a deep jump-in. don't do it too early or they can react with a JP or SK when they see you coming. you can use it on cross-up happy opponents when they get close and you feel they will attempt that cross-up. when they start teching, replace the throw with a mere JP/SK.

phew that's enough for now....I still have some ideas left; I haven't covered her SC's, the cannon spike and her combos.
so, more to follow, and if you are interested, it will. I welcome feedback :D cheers

[jreinert13]

Thanks for explaining the properties of her cannon drill. I haven't experimented with it that much, especially the roundhouse version. I'm just pleased to know it can hit low.

I think her crossup is great. Like you said, it's not like a Sakura or Ken J.Forward but it's still very effective. I use it in CvS2 so I know how to use it's hitboxes, but I can tell you it's much better in Alpha 3.
Crossup short->Close S.Fierce->C.Forward->S.Roundhouse is great guard break chain. The S.Roundhouse is the only reversable part of the attacks, and aside from invincible dragons and moves that go under it(slides) it seems to stuff everything.

Her Jump Short is just good in general, even if you are not crossing up, I'm surprised how easily it combos into Back+Fierce(or close Fierce). Just don't neglect J.Strong and J.Roundhouse because those are great Jump attacks.

Her C.Forward is a sick poke because of it's range and speed but always use C.Strong when in range. C.Strong is a beautiful normal, it's creates so many counter hits which starts combos(like another C.StrongXXcannon drill, or C.Forward)
Her B+Fierce is also very fast and creates a shiet load of major counters which lead into Cannon Spike combos. This is one reason I have to use her in Vism, command normals (and easy damaging VC's), although I have admittly not used her any other ism.

GianL your feedback is definetly welcome. We need to support this neglected A3 character(that's the impression I got when I tried to search for info on her)..

[TS]

KBA is decent because it can't be air blocked. Can be damage reduced (counter mashing) though.

[arcticninja]

A-Cammy is pretty good. I played her way back at MWC2001 :)

One thing to note is that she is *totally* different from her CvS2 incarnation.

Crouching and standing forward are good pokes. Also, she has really sick throw range, so learn to abuse it.

As for supers, Spin Drive Smasher is good for punishing mistakes, Reverse Shaft Breaker can be good for wakeups (though use sparingly), and Killer Bee Assault is almost free damage on jumping opponents. Against V-Ism, it's usually better to save your meter for ACs.

It's been a while since I played her, so all I remember for combos is cr. short, st. short, short Cannon Spike. I'm sure there are better ones, but that is a good combo off a cr. short.

That's all I remember for now, hope that helps.

[glass]

on KBA: it's kinda slow tho isn't it..? unless your opponent is Sim u really have to anticipate the jump. or maybe i'm just slow..? i dunno.

what's Cammy's optimum range? i'm thinking just outside FK range, since from there she can mixup between hooligans and drills (and knuckles if you're in Z). this goes back to ST but i never played that well..

[Middlekick]

don't forget her crossup loop:

[cross up short-> low jab-> rh spiral arrow] x n

after the arrow, yr at optimum range to go into one those really-difficult-to-block-cross ups. really great vs x-ism charas.
If they try to escape by rolling, low rh then try for the cross up(it will be harder to get the good cross up this time) or low short->low jab-> level 2/3 SDS/level 3 RSB.

I haven't read all of this thread(oh the guilt) but has anyone mentioned her low strong? like, after a CH low strong, you can do a low rh for a 2 hit combo or another low strong-> level 3 SDS OR if yr in v, you can activate vc3-> stand fierce-> standard vc . Also low fierce is a pretty good mid distance anti-air. also stand forward is good vs gief.

[GianL]

one weakness is that her arrows are fairly easily counterable with c.JP's, just like the sumo headbutt or blanka roll. but as far as i know online it is not widely used, not at all, which has to do with the lag.

her standing JP is also a great anti-air, especially for jumps you're countering on reflex cause you have to act quick. if you're used to the KBA motion, or combos with charlies ss.justice, you can even try comboing the s.JP into the KBA on a counterhit. its too flashy for me.

and one other thing, her cannon spike isn't as obvious for an air counter imo. its moving forward so its good for far jumpins ad those pesky air tatsumakis. im not too fond of the spike, i stick to her ground moves myself. but I don't have real experience with it either, i going to experiment first to know for real. I would love to hear someone talk sense about the strengths and weaknesses off the 3 different spikes. anyone?

[Middlekick]

Originally posted by GianL
I would love to hear someone talk sense about the strengths and weaknesses off the 3 different spikes. anyone?

like the shotos, the weak version of her dp is not suitable for countering sweeps/low attacks. the rh version however, beats all and also has more horizontal range. i can't remember about the forward version.

[zeronian]

the KBA can be controlled as to where you want it to go. the direction that you end the motion on is where she goes, so you can go backwards, straight up, or toward the guy. you should be able to easily land it even from full screen, you don't have to anticipate the jump. as soon as you see someone jump, or throw a fireball, do the motion and you'll land the super.

[Richard]

Originally posted by mondu_the_fat
Also, between Cammy/Juni/Juli, Juni definitely rules. She has pretty much the same moves and VCs, but Juni has more options, as well dishing out some damaging throws.
Yeah, I'd go with that, The motion grab gives her a slight edge, and the half-teleport has a few uses.

I've recently been playing the Juli/Juni Dramatic Battle a lot just for a laugh (I've recently got back into a3 after not playing it for over a year), and I'd forgotten about those two extra supers in A-ism... In fact, the only bad thing about ginger Juni in 1-player Dramatic is that the computer keeps pulling you across the screen with that healing move... very annoying when you score a dizzy!

[Xenozip.]

Time to once again breathe a little life into this old thread.

I'm surprised I didn't see anyone mention her b+RH or b+SP.

c.FP is her obvious mid and far anti-air. However, b+SP is also really good for stuffing close-range jump-ins generally anything directly over Cammy.

b+RH has similar applications for stuffing close jump-ins, but it can also be used as a good anti-crossup because the hitbox is also very wide.

Cammy's far FP is probably my favorite poke. Like her RH it has two parts to it, the elbow at the beginning, and then the extended arm (knuckles). The elbow part has a really huge vertical hitbox and will actually stuff a lot of low pokes, such as Chun c.FK or Gen c.SP, which is really impressive and useful. Plus the fact that it's very fast and covers a pretty decent range.

b+FP was already mentioned in this thread. It's hitbox is pretty high, so it's not going to stuff a lot of low poking, but it is really really fast so it's able to catch a lot of far-range mid/high pokes. Major counters off b+FP are confirmable into Hooligan Combination -> Cross Scissors Pressure.

c.FK is a really good poke, but the recovery on it is actually pretty large and the hitbox is really low. Mostly useful at max range. And, you have to watch out of things that go clean over it, like Ryu/Akuma toward+FK (hopkick) and such. It's speed and range make it useful for stuffing things like fireballs during their start-up animations. V-Cammy has to spend a lot of time walking forward and blocking in order to get in, and of course she needs to use a lot of c.FK's to supplement her progress by stuffing the opponents pokes. Far FK is of course a great poke, too.

After a major counter or if the opponent is jumping vertically or what-have-you, far FK, far SP, far RH, and far FP have varying levels of use for popping opponents out of the air. Far SP has the added benefit of being cancelable, so if you do hit them out of the air with it, you can usually hit them with a Cannon Spike during their hit-reel (before the become invulnerable), and it also has a deceptively large hitbox (vertically and horizontally).

I find vertical jumping RH to have a lot of potential. It sticks out really far and has a great hitbox. Same as her diagonal version, but I think it's pretty useful for controlling space.

Her V-ism combos are fairly easy to execute and are both versatile and damaging. Reliable anti-airs and midscreens. It can be a little annoying to transition between her mid-screen juggles into corner juggles, due to the fact that you'll sometimes crossup after a Cannon Drill, but fortunately her good ender can be done weather it's mid-screen or not, and it's also fairly easy to switch sides again so long as you're anticipating the crossup. It's even possible to do her corner DP loops while midscreen.

Though, generally it's annoying to accidentally crossup a cornered opponent by using a Cannon Drill.

Also, throwing near the corner (air or ground) is actually really risky. If the opponent tech-hits the throw they will recover before Cammy does. The only one that's really safe is Cammy's air punch throw.

Unfortunately the two special moves Cammy gains in V-ism are really not so good. It's generally a bad idea to aim her dive kick (Cannon Strike) at the opponent due to the fact that it's extremely punishable. I tend to use it more as a poke by intentionally whiffing it, or really just as a way to move forward.

And then her command counter (hcb+P) is absolutely useless. I really wish they just left V-Cammy with the sping knuckle instead of that stupid command counter.

Still, over-all I'd say Cammy is definitely better in V-ism. So the order of precedence would be: V, then A, then X.

Though in the grand scheme of things, Cammy is definitely lower-mid tier (not quite bottom tier, but definitely pretty low on the list).

[Best Kind Boxer]

I guess I should post it in this thread..

Does Cammy (or Juni?) have a midscreen VC that works against pre-A3 characters in HSFA?

Damn A1/A2 tiny hitboxes.. :sad:

[Xenozip.]

FP [FK Drill, FP, RH Spike]xN
works on some characters, but the timing is retardedly strict. I don't think you could do it consistantly in a match.

I was also able to do FP [FK Drill]xN
But the timing is pretty strict too. It might be a lot easier if you do an occasional SK Drill. You cross up on the second Drill, and then on every Drill after that, so maybe throw in a few SK Drills to ease the timing. Or something.

[Lv.32 Z-Ism Rose]

--She can link cr strong->cr short without a counter hit. Not really useful unless you have a Lv3 Spin Drive Smasher. It does go great with a crossup short-<cr strong,cr short, cr forward block string.
--I try not to use RH Cannon Drill. I have had too many incidents when it only hits the first time, and hte opponent is still standing. On Dhalsim, if he is close enough, it will hit his extended limbs with the first hit, then hit the body with the second hit+knock him down. Short Cannon drill will combo from a VERY close cr short without a counterhit....though I wouldnt rely on it....
--Her b+RH seems to be pretty good for deep jump ins. I have been using it at the last possible minute, since she crouches for a split second before her legs go up. It seems to make the deep hit she was about to get whiff and then she gets a major counterhit out of it. At the worst, I trade, but at least I get to stay aon the ground:)

[Xenozip.]

Short Cannon drill will combo from a VERY close cr short without a counterhit....though I wouldnt rely on it.... That becomes useful when you use crossups, like crossup j.SK, c.SK, SK-Drill.

[Lv.32 Z-Ism Rose]

The only use I have found for the dive kick is if it connects without a counterhit--throw them. By the time you recover from the move, they will have left hitstun, so you can throw them--looks an awful like Gief's short to SPD. Other than that, if they block it....well, get ready for a reaming.... I use it mostly for closing in distance or that last bit of chip damage. The move would be a lot better if she either didnt do that dumb bounce after block, or she could do it at any time of her jump.

[Daidoji Kage]

Cammy's biggest weakness is that she just isn't Juni.

I know if was kind of stated before, but I don't believe there is anything that Cammy can do that Juni can't do better. Cammy takes a little less damage I think, but Juni's push-block just overrides that advantage.

But if I had to play Cammy, I would rely an aweful lot on her short kick (all versions), not only does it link into most of her useful setups, but I find it to be one of those moves which gives a lot of average or better side of decent players a lot of grief. Also, I agree with Xenozip on the usefulness of the j.sk crossup.

That can be finished with any level super, yes?

[Xenozip.]

The only use I have found for the dive kick is if it connects without a counterhit--throw them. Well, like I said, it's generally a bad idea to aim it at the opponent. I still find it useful for getting to the ground faster (moving forward). It can stuff random pokes and it's kinda a good answer for fireballs since you can do it pretty early off the ground.

Cammy's biggest weakness is that she just isn't Juni. That's mostly true, except Juni loses far FP, far FK, and far SP (and some other standing normals), which are really useful. I also wish Juni's Spike and Drill weren't charge moves, but maybe that's just me.

Though generally I would agree that Juni has the 1-up on Cammy because of the added special moves.

[Xenozip.]

If you anti-air with a cancelable normal, you can usually also connect a Spike (dp+K) weather it was a counter-hit or not. Just using Spikes is generally better due to the short invulnerability time, but on the other hand, normal xx Spike also gives you a slightly better chance of avoiding a jump-in activation. It also helps to avoid accidental whiffs when your opponent was too close to get hit by the Spike (whiff due to crossup). Back+JP or b+SK or even c.SP can be useful for anti-airing into Spike. Far SP and back+FP also work pretty well. And in the case of b+FP you can confirm major counters into Hooligan instead of Spike.

Far SP xx Spike is also really useful after a juggle or major counter, when you want to tack on some extra damage you can chase the opponent by walking forward and then fish for another hit by sticking out a far MP. If the far MP connects, you can cancel into Spike, and if it whiffs you can wait and try again on their way down -- unless they neutral tech, of course.

Normal xx Spike near the corner also sets up a meaty Hooligan. Quick reversals can stuff it of course, but if you're near the corner then you should be within grab range right as your opponent wakes up. This is good against opponents that don't have particularly good wake up moves.

If you find yourself in the corner because you crossed up using a Drill, you can usually get out pretty quick by using a very early RH-Strike (air qcb+K) in V-ism. Not 100% safe, but it's pretty quick and it's better than regular jumping or using Hooligan. Although, Juni has the benefit of just being able to Mach Slide (teleport).

[Lv.32 Z-Ism Rose]

At which point in the Hooligan Combo can you actually perform the kickoff grab? Sometimes I grab them and give them the Frankensteiner, and sometimes the kick off grab. In the air, it is always the kick off. I just am not sure when during the arc of the move are you actually free to grab. Sometimes it is hard to tell since K makes her cancel the move, too.....

[jsheppar]

i am pretty sure it is not at what point during the spin you grab them, rather it is where you are relative to their body position when you execute the grab, ie. you want to be closer to their midsection as opposed to their head/shoulders when you hit kick to do the cross scissor pressure instead of the frankensteiner.

[lomo the kid]

Yes, it depends on the area where you input the Kick. Let's take for example Ken. If you're on a line with his head then you'll perform the fatal leg twister. If you're on one line with Ken's black belt, then you'll perform the cross scissor pressure.

On a crouching enemy you'll only be able to do a fatal leg twister.

[Lv.32 Z-Ism Rose]

Cool. That makes sense for the grounded opponent. What about when the opponent is in the air? That is where I get screwed up the most. Seems like it is a hit or miss kind of thing since the kick cancels the move if you dont grab him. Can she grab him at any point of the roll in the air, or is it only on her way down?

[jsheppar]

i am not sure if she CAN grab the opponent on her way up or not, but in my experience you want to execute the 'grab' (hit f/b+kick) sometime after the apex of the roll. are we talking about an anti-air close standing fierce hitting as a major counter, then confirming that into the hooligan roll? if that's what you're doing, you want to be doing a fierce hooligan roll, and executing the grab after the apex of the roll, and at the time you do it the opponent's body should be level with or slightly below yours, basically performing the grab as late as you think you can before the opponent's body falls away from you. those are pretty rough instructions but if you try it with those in mind you'll see what i mean.

[nostraDONus]

I cannot for the life of me get the cross scissor pressure to work at the end of her VC. The hooligan combo comes out but Ive never got cross scissor to connect. Pretty frusterated any tips?

[jsheppar]

you have to do the actual grab part of it after your vc meter is depleted. i spent a long time in training mode with infinite vc meter getting very angry until someone clued me in on this.

[nostraDONus]

I know. I do the close FP after the meter expires buffered into the hooligan. The grab will just not connect! Do i need to do the close FP before the meter depletes?

[jsheppar]

no, you can most certainly throw the close fierce after the meter depletes. (in fact, this is what you want to do) all i can guess is that you're hitting kick for the grab too early, you really want to hit it as late as you possibly think you can. this is hard to elaborate on, but i'll give it a try. after you buffer into the hooligan, what should happen is your opponent's body should start descending from the fierce you hit them with. while you're rolling through the air, your opponent's body will come directly into contact with yours. you want to wait as long as possible to do the grab, ie. wait until right before their body would fall away from you. when you execute it, cammy should be descending, not ascending. i guess the timing just takes practice, once you know when to hit the button, you'll be able to do it consistently.

[Lv.32 Z-Ism Rose]

And just for weirdness....

...I grabbed Ryu out of his shoryuken with her cross scissor pressure.

I was quite aghast:O

[Xenozip.]

RE: Hooligan Ender

Yeah, you want to do the FP after your meter ends. Technically even though your meter has ended, you are still able to cancel your last special move (provided that special move was done while your meter was still active). Thus, you want to keep doing Spikes in the corner untill your meter has actually ended, and then cancel the last Spike into b+FP.

So, your meter should be totally ended by the time you land from the last Spike. But even though you're out of meter you can still cancel that Spike into b+FP.

Also, Cammy can delay her action after a Spike a lot longer than Juni can. After a deep Cannon Spike (her ass/bent knee hits the opponent close to the ground), you can wait a tiny bit before you actually hit neutral. You want to time the b+FP as late as possible so that the opponent is nice a close to the ground, then cancel into the Hooligan immediately. Best way to get the timing for this is to set the Training dummy to auto-tech, and then just don't cancel your last Spike, that way you can visually see how much time you have before you hit Neutral.

It's really not as difficult as it seems once you get the formula right.

[nostraDONus]

Thanks just landed it!

[nostraDONus]

Does anyone know the properties for the "cannon revenger"? All I can come up with is that jp counters jump ins that hit early and fp hits deep jump ins. Does it work for standing moves? And what part of the move actually counters? I seen a pretty crazy dizzy combo with the fp version but can barely even get the C. revenger to work.

[Xenozip.]

-snip-

Check this post: http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3414429#post3414429

[Lv.32 Z-Ism Rose]

Is it just me, or is Juli's (or Juni--i get them mixed up. I mean the red head) standing fierce better than V Cammy's b+HP? It seems like the range on hers extends a bit farther than Cammy's. Maybe it is my imagination...

So far, the way I see it, Cammy has the better normal attacks, whille Carrottop has the better specials. Cammy having her far forwards, far fierce, close roundhouse give her better option on anti airs and counters. Carrot top has the air drill, teleprot, earth direct command grab, hooligan that does ridiculous damage, pushblock, and the teleport--kinda makes up for her having some weaker normals. Cammy should have gotten at least one of those new moves (maybe the air drill) instead of the worthless counter, or at least the overhead that the dolls have. At least Cammy isnt a charge character:)