cable vs rushdown

[_blitz]

now i know that this thread could get very ugly. as of the way that both sides to this can be played, and that both sides of this fight will look here to either get new information or learn what is new and protect against it. BUT i am trying to concentrate on cable's side. taking into consideration that it would be neccessary to put the other sides views in as well but im looking for help on this as im sure others are too. whether it be storm or magneto; sentinel stomp or hell even iron man, this is a very discussed about topic and a wide arrays of ideas will hopefully come into play here.
i will list my basic team constuction stratagy's and list my team combination so that you can read this and put in your two cents easier. any help on MY team as well would be greatly appreciated.

i know the cable vs thread exists but i wish to narrow this down from just cable vs xxxx. there is a cable vs storm thread i believe so i for now want to concentrate on mags.

i use cable on piont at the begining of every match, (well almost) and with this format i plan to do none other then either take that person's first charachter out and gb the next in or hunt the heads and kill his assist(s). the rest of my team is determined by who my opponent has already picked.

this is MY team layout.
1st position: cable.
hes my money charachter, first out and my best.
only exception is one of my two non cable teams. (mss, msp stilll under construction)
2nd position: storm, mags, iron man, blackheart or sentinel
i use storm for the get out of shit free card. she can do it all. horizontal typhoons as assist for the alpha counter sstraight to hail. mags is new to my team. iron man, repulsor blast can definatly add to cable rush game well, infinate can be linked off of assist. bh, makes a mean assist in the hands of cable. both work well of each other. bh adds to the trap and can allow me to use tron for fear of not having an aaa. cable helps bh with infinate set up, and hod combos way up in the sky so cable can't retort against them (c.lk + cable, lk, inferno hod). sentinel... man i have to stick my favorite charachter in their some where don't i?
assist: cammy, commando, tronne, psy, cykes
i use them in accordence to my opponents team. :D

now to get down to it

don't abuse your anti air. that the first chink in the armor he will go for. believe me a good magneto will know your tricks, and be completly aware of how to get around them. thats why i suggest storm, or any other ground assist as to use as you main assist. remember that most anti air's will do their thing and land some ways away from you leaving them expossed. look at the facts: drones do 26 damage, tronne does 45. and if he takes one up in the air it can result in a 60 - 70 damage experience that you do not want to deal with.

assists to mention
sent, storm and doom although cause me the most problems they they can be remedied easily: be out away or just staying away. don't let the screen be filled with shit like their rocks and drones. without a good opening you shouldn't see these too often.
cammy is fairly useless in this fight, i don't make plans to be in the air much so ....
repulsor blast can get nasty as can tronne. if there is one time you decide to play cable the stayaway bastard its this.
the rest are below

i believe magnetro told me about this one: "hop kick", torward and fierce kick. he posted some in-depth details on this in one of the other cable threads and he explained it good, go look it up.

if it comes around that you want or need to do a little rushing your self then i recomend: jumping fierce kick when they are in block stun. its great. the elbow drop can hit them from behind if done right. thats right crossed up. the hit box on this move is so big that it can actually crosses them up and makes the game think that cables on the other side when the animation says cable is right on top of them and slightly in front. slow trijumping. or more like low hit, cross up ect. its just that the j.fk is kinda scary and with mixin it up with other attacks like lows and crossing them up it puts some hellified presure on. also dash in, crouching light then medium punch or kick. crouching medium punch can be cancelled straght into a beam and medium kick, feirce kick, beam you know the drill.

favorite assists against mags teams:
against an oppenent that uses mags first i will mostly stick to storm as my second charachter and then either cyclops or cammy depending on msp, mss or another cable. i do this because: cyclops will cover a lot of holes in cables ground game. he keeps giving them an obstackle from dashing in. after they get it in the face once they look for another opportunity or try to trick you. cykes can be hell on rush but he has his own forum. storm can be useful against mags for the trap efect. just like sent's drones, the gunshot, typhoon (even em disruptor and inferno), weak laser trap will work here as well. also once that damn thing is on the screen it there and they can't do a damn thing about it till its gone. instead of always doing the ground trap i like to use the block stun to throw a grenade and get a little farther away from them so you basically get to start your keep away game over from full screen away again. cammy however i alway pick as my assist against sent. no flight. it takes away a lot of his options to feel the dreded cannon spike once or twice.

you guys are gonna call me lame but hey, i don't fuck around against this beast. this is my keep away game in a bottle:

now mags is the fastest charachter in the game, and at times it seems like keep away is futile but it can be done. sometimes i like to think to myself that hes a little behind being as fast as a mouth laser, i keep this in mind so i can judge what i have time to do. i've seen this fight go one extream or the other all too many times. everything you do, do it quick, as he will get in your face when you think he can't. play aggresive, a passive cable will die to mags so this is not the match to stay back and wait, but be ready and eager to punish when it is time. on the other hand though i can't stress enough how much slowing down this game can be effective. i earlier stated that you must be aggressive against him. but this is also saying slow HIM down. when you put mags in a corner and make him sit there he can't get in easy when its all spaced right and he can't jump, play a mind game and get him used to you being the one in control. put him in the state of mind that if he can't find a way to be fast then he must change people or try to trick you. you take away his biggest weapon by doing this. if you control the match speed hes gotta think smart. don't be so willing to give up keepaway. against a new opponent it will take a moment to adjust to them but don't give it up after he gets in on you.

universal, basic keepaway taylored to mags: i try to stay away from doing: pscimitars to cancel anything but straight into ahvb or when he jumps. this leaves you open for what ever he wishes to do. grenades: its so tempting to lob one his way but don't. hes to fast, even if hes not on the screen i won't. ive been punished one too many times. instead i like to use the crackdown and weak scimatars. after a gunshot connected in the air its ahvb time. but on the ground i call storm fire off four stots and crackdown. this will work wonders if your close enough to hit and can be combo'ed into by crouching light kick, medium kick, gunshot. its great if you have no bar or don't want to use just one to kill him off. this perticular combo is easier to pull off against mags because of the fact that he has to be close to be effective so in he comes and back he goes as this knocks him full screen too. i am the apitimy of ground assist, jump back fierce punch. in most cases from full screen it works. and even though your not cashing in on big damage you are building bar and he is not. typhoons will keep them in block stun for a long time and it really gets a mags pissed. watch for superjumps out of it. if you have enough time to land and throw a weak pscimitar do it.

most mags have a handy assist named psylocke. i hate fighting her. so i just play keepaway and don't give him too many oportunities to use her. she doesn't have too great of range so this is fairly easy to avoid being hit by it if just tossed out there. if evaded kill her, take no remorse in dealing out the only bars you have if neccessarly. once shes out of the picture you'll be safe to elblow drop. same goes for cykes and captain too.

now i know some of you won't agree with this. if you don't then tell me, don't flame, add you oppinons please. no body will learn anything if you don't.

[Saige]

A few opinions from me:


- I don't really believe in the hop kick, it's just too slow, not the greatest recovery and if you try to use it too much, it's punishable.

- Jab Viper Beams are your friend if you're playing keepaway games such as jump + Drones, HP, Jab Viper Beam.

- Never do a fierce Viper Beam while fighting Magneto.

- If you even hear "Psy Blade" throw out a jab Grenede and hold it. If you see a blue Psylocke, AHVB. Most of the times (in my experieces) if Psylocke misses, it's because I'm jumping back and doing HP and Drones. After the HP, just jab Grenede that shit and blast away.
* Just a note, I say this off of experiece against me, a local around is the master assist killer because of that tactic alone.

And of course:

- Stay away from the corner.

I'll add one thing. Make sure your AHVB execution is perfect. Don't do AHVB unless they can be chipped to death or it'll hit them. This also means stay away from GHVB. Mags and Storm have fast dashes and can punish you in a heartbeat.

[LiQuiDSwOrdZ]

how about throwing a grenade, igniting it right above cable's head and wave dashing under it?
lataz
Dru

[_blitz]

i find that against mags, grenades will get you infinted. even right above your head when hes above you. maybe just the way i use though.

I personally think that grenades against a very good Mags player are a no-no. However, there are a lot of stupid Mags players that dash into just about everything you throw at them:lol:. I think that Cable's Fierce (pistol shot) works a little bit better. If you're going to go with grenades, make sure you have your opponent blocking something (i.e. Sent drones, Doom rocks, BH inferno, or Storm horizontal typhoon).

Side note: this usually works for me, but make sure to use well-timed pushblocks to give yourself some breathing room. If you give Magnus too much room to rushdown, he'll very much have a field day with you. Mags is a close-range fighting specialist. Cable is not.

[_blitz]

i agree much. but also cable is equiped to fight in close, as long as you are sneaky or bastardish about the lk., mk., fk., xx death. depending what your carting for defense it could change the useage ... against mags grnades are too dangerous by themselves, but with something like drones you can easily. i feel that grenades are more useful against storm .... but thats later :) the biggest dilema i run into with the whole mags with grenades is this. if you can't see him , don't cause he'll pop up. if your a ways into the match and you feel like it then go ahead but i wouldn't risk it. after a gunshot on the ground trap with say, drones or tyhpoon then i would advise you do. it gives you a littlle more time to get away. but if he starts to trick you with going up high and trying to change his direction for a cross up or aid raid then get beside him (on the ground) throw a lk grenade and slightly pause then explode. after that wave dash to the otherside of him and throw a weak pscimitar. the piont of this is to make him airdash into the psimitar and to piss him off, but if you have commando then this isn't something you even need to learn or bother about.

Having Jin AAA really helps you out a lot because it tends to negate dash-ins, jump-ins, and cross-ups. A lot of Mags players I have gone up against have had trouble with Jin AAA. In fact, it's much harder to get around because it's faster than say Capcom AAA and covers a decent area. It's less predictable I should say. Cable/Sent/Jin should be an excellent choice. Also, it depends on who you start first. Like, I think Sent+AAA can really do a good job of keeping Mags off of you and maybe even killing him (i.e. Sent/Capcom). Also try Gief's Iron Lariat assist. That shit just snuffs Mags like nobody's business. The only real problem is turning iron safely and switching out.

More later......

[Clouddy]

i agree that cable is a good char to start, but is there anyway to avoid the rushdown at the start? i mean, mag have a 50% chance of hitting u rite off the go. if i hold back-up in the start, a well timed c.lk by mag can hit me, but if i hold back-down, he can also do a tri-jp lk and connect into infinites... its a 50% guess game, is there a better way to start the match against mag??

Originally posted by Clouddy
i agree that cable is a good char to start, but is there anyway to avoid the rushdown at the start? i mean, mag have a 50% chance of hitting u rite off the go. if i hold back-up in the start, a well timed c.lk by mag can hit me, but if i hold back-down, he can also do a tri-jp lk and connect into infinites... its a 50% guess game, is there a better way to start the match against mag??

From my personal experience, I've learned that Mags is just too fast for a character such as Cable. As far as starting off goes, you can't superjump immediately into a match. Like, it can't be the action you perform as soon as the "READY" screen clears. Mags will catch you each time you try. Against Mags, you don't have too many options to work with when you're upclose. I mean, yeah, Cable has that good old S. Short, S. Forward, S. Fierce XX AHVB, but that;s about it. If he doesn't connect that, he could get punished without a doubt. Cable just loses to that. Yeah, you could have a full meter and a very reliable AAA at your disposal, but you have to be careful even with those two things going for you. Personally, start Sent/AAA. Whether it be Capcom, Cyke, Cammy, Jin......it's best to start it off. Sent can kill Mags with a few good hits. As soon as Magneto is taken care of, switch in Cable. It should be a little bit easier. Look, I'm not going to get into details about how much damage Sent does, but if you catch Mags with a launch, call AAA, frying pan, LP Rocket Punch.....it's going to do damage. Btw, there's much more Sent can do. I just think that Sent is a better match-up vs Mags.

[GeekBoy]

Don't underestimate that j.Jab, it can really fuck over some people who are reset happy. For example, Magneto could be doing the Launch, sj.RH, dash DF, j.LK, j.LK, land, sj, dash D+LK reset, you can do j.Jab, land, j.Jab, j.Fierce xx AHVB. Gotta know those situations where j.Jab can be a problem solver. Doing random s.RH+Commando when you're standing still and they're dashing in is a safe thing to do. Either, you will hit them and can cancel into AHVB or it'll make them stop and you will still be protected because of Commando, then you can do a grenade or jump in or something.

[Dasrik]

Grenades are good moves and should be used. I find best time to use them is after the opponent has blocked something (Cyclops assist or Sentinel drones). It keeps you from worrying about any dash approach for awhile.

[_blitz]

orrigonnaly posted by GeekBoy
Don't underestimate that j.Jab, it can really fuck over some people who are reset happy. For example, Magneto could be doing the Launch, sj.RH, dash DF, j.LK, j.LK, land, sj, dash D+LK reset, you can do j.Jab, land, j.Jab, j.Fierce xx AHVB. Gotta know those situations where j.Jab can be a problem solver..
so when exactly does that solve a problem. im confused about it .. could you clerify.

[GeekBoy]

It has stupid stupid priority sometimes, it'll beat out a lot of air to air conflicts, so use it when in sj height matches. Against Sentinel, it'll work rather well, like if they fuck up a normal jump and forget to fly or call an assist (wow, imagine that...) you can use it to guard break them by doing j.Jab (initial guard break), land, j.Jab, j.Fierce xx AHVB, after the j.Fierce, wait a sec to get some distance for the super to connect so you'll get some more damage out of it.

[S0N NGUYEN]

SOn ownz!!:evil: :evil: !!

Cable vs Mag!!:

Cable:Do and Don't

Do:4xpistol,if mag tries to triangleJ to dodge ure pistol,then psimitar+sent's drones same time!!

Don't do:Never SuperJ!!:evil: :evil: !!Cuz!There r soo many shit a good mags players(Me):evil: can do to you while you're in the air and about to land.That's just my opinion!Unless,you're eally good at blocking TriangleJ(Me):evil: !No one ever TriangleJ me and combo into it!They usually kills me by,me being impatient or just Toying with them!

Payce*

[GeekBoy]

OK, that is the worst fucking advice I've ever heard.

[Magnetro]

Originally posted by GeekBoy
Don't underestimate that j.Jab, it can really fuck over some people who are reset happy. For example, Magneto could be doing the Launch, sj.RH, dash DF, j.LK, j.LK, land, sj, dash D+LK reset, you can do j.Jab, land, j.Jab, j.Fierce xx AHVB. Gotta know those situations where j.Jab can be a problem solver. Doing random s.RH+Commando when you're standing still and they're dashing in is a safe thing to do. Either, you will hit them and can cancel into AHVB or it'll make them stop and you will still be protected because of Commando, then you can do a grenade or jump in or something.

that sounds cool i'll try it today and yeah about the HOP KICK thing i found some other weird things w/ it if a really despreate mag does hypergrav tempest on the floor you can do a hop kick on the hyper grav and it will hit you back on to the floor and then you can AHVB if your good. It will go through the tempest!

umm another thing you can share weird hits w/ people like say a sent who did a flying short and you did a h.k. (hop kick), well the lk is going to hit the h.k. and your both going to stop and get hit off ur moves. From there u can run away. Hmm i found a lot of weird things on top tiers I'll post some up later on

Originally posted by GeekBoy
OK, that is the worst fucking advice I've ever heard.

SON is a very good MVC2 player. He just can't explain anything in that game.

[ibow2no1]

SOn ownz!! !!

Cable vs Mag!!:

Cableo and Don't

Do:4xpistol,if mag tries to triangleJ to dodge ure pistol,then psimitar+sent's drones same time!!

Don't do:Never SuperJ!! !!Cuz!There r soo many shit a good mags players(Me) can do to you while you're in the air and about to land.That's just my opinion!Unless,you're eally good at blocking TriangleJ(Me) !No one ever TriangleJ me and combo into it!They usually kills me by,me being impatient or just Toying with them!

Payce*

i'm offering some advice to you. stay calm before typing a response. think it through and don't worry so much about how many little faces you can put in you paragraph. it is very hard to even get the slightest idea of what the hell your talking about.

SON: I just don't get it. You claim that you own at Pocket Change, but you lost to Sent/Cable/Capcom at our shit tourney back in August:wtf:. It's like you never even showed up to play that day.

At one point, I hyped this guy up to absurdity.

[_blitz]

ok .. nobody likes shit talk and i dont want my thread to be closed because of it. as far as mags goes ... it ongoig but i think a lot of important ground was covered so i am willing to move on to storm if thats cool with everybody else.

if so then i will type up a long strat against her as i did mags in my opening post. im going to gather my thoughts on this and put it all down in a couple of hours. see ya then.

[GeekBoy]

In addition to s.RH+Commando as an anti dash strategy, oc.Fierce+Commando as an anti triangle jump strategy works once in a while.

And S0N, I honestly couldn't give two fucks what you know or what you want to prove, so cut the shit.

[_blitz]

or as just as a get away from me tacktic i prefer dash back and capcom. you can cancel the dash with down in case he gets around your capcom. and if he takes the time to hit commando, which he probably wont on purpose its eaay punishment.

[Jakuda]

I didn't read much of the stuff above, so if this is a repost of stuff already said, my apologies. I will keep this short.

1) Sparingly use Cable's random st. rh. If you can "psychic"ally or just smartly randomly do rh, it's a good strategy that will at least make magneto stop blindly attacking. It catches air dashing mags or dashing mags. Free super. The key word is "smartly" use it or sparingly use it.

You can see random examples of it in SiN's play with his Team Scrub vs Mags.

2) cable's grenades can be good at the right times. If Cable can manage to get spacing. Mags will either dash forward (see 1) ) or sj, and try to fall on cable (baiting out an assist). So if Magneto super jumps toward cable, cable can do a tiger knee grenade that "explodes" right over his head. Not a perfect defense, but it's solid when used smartly (again knowing "when' you can do so is 99% of the game).
This tactic also works okay with flying sentinels.

a video? hm... Rowtron's cable does it very well.

I like SiN's Sent/Cable/Capcom very much. He just doesn't seem to make that many mistakes with him. Ok, now I'm very weak against Mags players as well as Storm because I just choke under rushdown, but here's a strategy that works for me before I choke.

Call Capcom or any other effective anti-air for that matter like Cammy, Cyke, or even BH right as you superjump. It'll move to superjumping screen and the assist will come out providing much needed coverage. During this time you can throw out some Low Grenades. Thing that sucks though, once you land without anything protecting you, it's like a free launcher for Mags/Storm. Egh......my strat weak. I have a much easier time keeping a decent Mags player away with Omega Red.

[S0N NGUYEN]

To Satomiblood:I agree with ya llittle sent out assist then Sj then throw Grenadesstrategies.But what if it was cable vs cable,and u sj and send out grenade.Then the other cable sj and HVB your cable's ass??:evil: !!


Payce*

To S0N: This is the Cable vs Rushdown Thread. Although Cable can rushdown to a certain extent-Magneto and Storm are the purest rushdown artists in this game. A Cable will have a much easier time going head to head with another Cable compared to say MSP. Am I right? If I am say W3RD:lol:

[_blitz]

"w3rd"

anyways ... the whole superjumping thing can work but i dont trust it. i dont like the idea of comimng down on a mags especially. but hey to each his own but i would recomend finding a new strat or just practicing blocking a mags.

well since there wasn't much about the topic changing to storm i will stir up this: what effective ness can an assist that doesn't knock them ful screen away be effective. namely trons rings, storms typhoon and sent's drones. i use a ll of them in various teams so i have my own ways of useing them. by fullscreen knockers i mean captain, cammy ect....

these assists are more of my liking becuase they can set up some nasty shit. if mags comes in on you and you block the first couple of atacks then the assist hits and he goes to the other side, you have enough time to drop in tron or storm cause of the trijump goin overyou. and tron especially, cause she comes out a little after the fact so even if shes not out there when he begins the rush he will run right into her by the time shes out. and thats a 3 bared beam straight up mags ass.

also if i manage to turn the tables on him and get anoportunity to do a jumping fk then it'll let me drop tron and jump over him. if he doesnt block right then its into a throw and resume keepaway.

i play cable and tron for that sweet tasting damage but also because its really easy to get her in on a mags. mags goes to dashin while you do a jumping fp, let him. drop tron as you jump and he'll go right into her. of course excellent players are gonna either see this coming or trijump over tron, but also throw a good old lp viper beam in their if he does tri jump. if he blocks it then me and you can bet on him trying to get you before you land cause you can't block but most likely wont be able to because he has to land first then dash. or on the other hand if it hits then you've got em far away again.

thats how i use tron. anyone care to put in on the other non ranging assists that a cable could or should use?

[FMJaguar]

There isn't much of a need to push a point full screen with the assist alone, most of the time i assume the assist will be blocked and plan around that, if it hits anyway it's just bonus. It's rare that a good player will let his assist get owned for free or anything like that.

Typhoon firstly too slow, someone is going to be clean in on cable before the typhoon comes out. It provides 0 protection for cables weak point (above his head). Cable already controls the space directly in front of him, so what does typhoon do? I really don't believe in trapping anymore, i think it was on it's last legs when storm became a staple, and died completely with pushblock cancel and such came out. 2 reps in today's marvel is good lol.

Tron IMO is a gimmick assist vs mags, her strength is not defensively. Remember that a good player not playing generically, they are going to play to your team's weakness, with that said, when is magneto going to continue attacking, while your point is blocking and your going to call tron? She only hits on one side, and comes out in front, so it's pretty trivial to stop and tri jump to the other side, now she's stranded and your playing 1-2 for 5 seconds(*). He doesn't *have* to fight the match you want, nor even stay on the part of the screen you want him to, he's too fast for that.

Also remember if you called her during that jump sequence, you had to normal jump, which means you should have died anyway. I'd have to test it, but i'd be willing to bet mags can wavedash and hit OR guard break cable clean without touching tron. If not, he can SJ straight up above the normal jump height, then dash forward... 100% safe, because you don't have a vertical hitting assist (unless your going to play cable/capcom/tron or something), which leads back to (*). Also all of the typhoons weaknesses apply to tron as well.

Drones can be effective because of their angle, they can cover cable's head, and are solid, so it provides him protection + an extra projectile, it still comes out too slow but of the 3 this is probably the most helpful to cable.

****

Cable St.RH *has* to be backed up with an assist, but rh+assist, ahvb is pretty awesome, not a bad shot, but don't whiff lol.

****

Super Jumping IMO is one of the bad parts about marvel, continous airblock really reduces the game to BS once people start SJ'ing around. The dangerous part of a super jump is the landing tho, so be careful.

****

Cable IMO needs a assist to help on defense, his mobility and reversal options are weak, and he has trouble keeping almost anyone in the game from taking shots at him. Outside of storm he shouldn't have problems playing at range, just needs someone to keep people from staying inside. At least that's my take.