Things that can save King from sucking

[Mummy-B]

Alrighty.

Play in a Groove with Roll. If you don't, you're stupid and/or do not want to win with King.

It seems that Roll Cancelling is the only thing that saves her, along with her either damaging Level 2 super cancel or her corner CC damage.

I will go ahead and say A Groove is her best option.

RC Mirage Kick:
I think it's one of the best RCs there are. It moves her forward, sets up an activation, sets up a possible DP juggle, and it just about counter RCs everything - Blanka RC shock, Sakura RC spin kick, Yun's RC lunge punch and palm strike.

RC Tornado Kick:
Another move that sets up activation. This beats out shit that Mirage Kick doesn't, like Sakura's RC fierce spark, Eagle's RC stick move.

RC Trap Shot:
I think is one of her best anti-airs. Can't be airblocked, can set up activation or a DP juggle, does decent damage, and it's okay as far as speed coming out.

Basically, RCing is the only thing that makes her minutely competitive. Her Groove strength would have to be A, C, N, then everything else is tied for shitty.

Anyone got anything else?

[jae hoon]

I just started playing King for a reason even I dont understand and there is something I noticed. Correct me if im wrong here but her surprise rose(i think thats the name of it) seems to act as an antiair. From what I can gather standing roundhouse would be her best ground based AA, then crouching fierce. Thats another thing ive seen many places that crouching fierce is comboable but yet ive never been able to do it. Im usually stuck doing a standing jab into a ducking short into a super or trap shot.

I do disagree alittle that she has to have a roll groove though, from what I can tell she can be as equally effective in P Groove. While she doesnt have a roll, Parry adds a very dangerous part to her aresenal. Personally I wouldnt want to see a parry into a trap shot. She seems to be able to build meter fairly quickly for P Groove, which is one thing that can be very hard to do in that groove.

[Mummy-B]

Well her major problem is, in a Groove like P, she is basically just a battery character. She doesn't have any good Level 3's in terms of damage for the amount of time it takes to build up that slow ass meter. Additionally, many of her normals lack priority - the BEST poke I use is probably standing lk and even that is fairly crappy.

On her own, she doesn't doesn't do enough damage without getting in "cheap shots." She doesn't have a cross up so she really can't pressure very well outside of keeping you in blockstun with fireballs and following behind it and shit.

For damage, she works out best getting an RC off into a corner CC. It just works out that way. Try it out for a while, and you'll see what I mean. You'll find that, for meter and normal play compared, her best damage comes from "cheap shots" that can lead to some more good damage. You find that primarily in A Groove and with her C Groove super cancel. Even N Groove doesn't have anything special about it, except for her ability to RC, so that's basically as crappy as all the other Grooves.

[jae hoon]

Originally posted by Mummy-B
Well her major problem is, in a Groove like P, she is basically just a battery character. She doesn't have any good Level 3's in terms of damage for the amount of time it takes to build up that slow ass meter. Additionally, many of her normals lack priority - the BEST poke I use is probably standing lk and even that is fairly crappy.

On her own, she doesn't doesn't do enough damage without getting in "cheap shots." She doesn't have a cross up so she really can't pressure very well outside of keeping you in blockstun with fireballs and following behind it and shit.

For damage, she works out best getting an RC off into a corner CC. It just works out that way. Try it out for a while, and you'll see what I mean. You'll find that, for meter and normal play compared, her best damage comes from "cheap shots" that can lead to some more good damage. You find that primarily in A Groove and with her C Groove super cancel. Even N Groove doesn't have anything special about it, except for her ability to RC, so that's basically as crappy as all the other Grooves.

True her supers dont do alot of damage, and I do use her as a battery character. The thing ive noticed though is that her specials actually do a good amount of damage. Especially the trap shot, and with P- Groove it gives you more of an oppurtunity to do things like a parry into a trap shot, or parry into qcb+fierce, roundhouse surprise rose. etc etc etc. Especially with the amount of hits each move connects with helps build up the meter much faster. Ive had matches where ive built up the meter used it and then built it up again with King. Thats almost impossible to alot of times in that groove. While I wont disagree she is incredibly weak character overall, I just feel she can be effective as a good battery for P - Groove, and can actually serve as a purposefull character. Or maybe its just my boredom talking :confused:

[wipeout2049]

Wow, Ken did a hadoken at close-up range and I immediately reacted the level 3 jump-back-and counter super only to hop backwards into the fireball. What a waste of meter:( If the hadoken didn't hit, then I would have had him:(

Oh well, at least the sweep is a decent poke. Short Tornado Kicks works wonders too. People like to get hit by the second hit:)

[Mummy-B]

Oh yeah, don't ever use that combo super for anything except ending a CC at any level. Ever.

[ragingstorm18]

king, hmmm, one of my FAV A GROOVE characters of cours ei play her combo friendly like, poke like crazy and be extra scrubish, in a way shes like cammy, in a groove, she fucking owns, but i found an annoying move with her other than the 50 hitter, its a 20 hitter, that u do double strike, come in wit the qcb+fp then lp x10
and it = to about 20 hehe, opponent never touches ground ither.
Heres my A groove team, i play ODDD TEAMs, but they flow so well,
Haohmaru -this REALLLY gives ppl a scare, and throws them off there game (level 1)
Ken - a god in a groove (level 2)
King - need i say more, (level 1)

My N Groove team (also my best team)
Sagat (my 2nd best character, i play him in a odd way to, rolls and roll cancels to supers and using n groove well) (level 1)
Benimaru - hehehe, not many ppl know how to use him, but hes one of my best characters, GREAT pressure character. (level 1)
Yamazaki - My BEST/FAV character (level 2) hes just a god

[Drag]

Originally posted by Mummy-B
She doesn't have a cross up so she really can't pressure very well outside of keeping you in blockstun with fireballs and following behind it and shit.

For damage, she works out best getting an RC off into a corner CC. It just works out that way.

I think that this *IS* King.

She can poke crappily. You can't really follow up FBs much (not like a boom anyways), but I think I know what he means. Use them to zone, and to keep pressure. If she didn't have decent anti-air she'd be meat.

If you can't get them cornered try to RC thru FBs with dashing kicks, RC reverse dp+k through moves upclose, and zone with FBs and anti-airs. Tornado kick gives good recovery, and if anyone can give some nice follow-ups it would be great. But that thing is DAMN easy to hit if you're looking for it. I like jump straight up after, but it's easy to get play against if you know it'll happen.

If they come on strong midscreen you bust out midscreen CC. I like the sliding sweep from max range, but damn if they jump it or something.

meaty d.MP, then d.MK into special is nice. Sets up CC near corner.

If she could link after d.jabs or something it'd be nice, or if her s.MK was like Guile's sobat or something, or if she didn't have mega-lag after double FB, she'd be reallly cool.

[Mummy-B]

c.mp and c.mk... link?

[Drag]

d.MP has HUGE hit duration. It's easy to use as a meaty attack. Best one she has AFAIK.

d.MK with only link if you do meaty d.MP though. Go into special.. dashing kicks, or tornado kicks if they're standing/big/whatever. I'm sure you know the drill.

I crossed up with j.short once, I swear! :)

[Mummy-B]

Actually you can cross up with j.mp. Not really great though.

[Drag]

Really? cool. I'm assuming it's one of those really hard to get ones tho. :(

Maybe i'll be able to do it against fatty blanka. thx.

[ragingstorm18]

king is a hard player to use all in all

[GeeseHoward]

YO!YO!YO!

Yeah, I can undeerstand A goove being her better groove, but dammit, P groove is a mighty nice groove as well....Byt the way, anyone know of a good mid screen custom? I only kno0w the corner ones....

But yeah, even if you short short short with her into her vertical super, it leaves wide open since not all the hits combo! If this didn't happen, she'd be alot better.....


And yeah, that surpirse rose is an anti air, I've used it a couple of times...anyone know if it like a dragon punch?
Ok, that is all..
lates
-The Geese

[(THE) Geese]

King doesn't suck. You don't even need time to realize this. She has dominant moves, safe moves, dominant jumpins, and good safe supers.

-j. jab/short...think Nak vs. Vega. They're almost as good.

-c. strong/c. forward...netime u make em block a c. strong, u can do c. forward after, cancel into fireball or Tornado Kick.

-short Tornado Kick...RC it, and it becomes even better. Good safe move to get u inside.

-roll...HUGE HUGE HUUUUUUUUGE move. Probably top3 rolls in the game. Just fucking HUUUUUUGE. Don't have footsie skills? Just roll inside.

-LVL2 QCBx2+K super. Safe, can be used as wakeup. LVL1 is good too. Think CVS1. Not as good, still good tho.

-c. rh. Her trip still owns.

[caliagent#3]

Originally posted by (THE) Geese
-c. strong/c. forward...netime u make em block a c. strong, u can do c. forward after, cancel into fireball or Tornado Kick.



anyone can roll past the c.forward into fireball or tornado kick and punish her, unless u r pretty close, but if u r and the block it then u r in an even worse position

[(THE) Geese]

Originally posted by caliagent#3



anyone can roll past the c.forward into fireball or tornado kick and punish her, unless u r pretty close, but if u r and the block it then u r in an even worse position

Yeah, I'm aware of this. Too bad there is a thing called intuition. If everyone played by the theory book, most people would suck.

[Drunken Master]

Originally posted by (THE) Geese
King doesn't suck. You don't even need time to realize this. She has dominant moves, safe moves, dominant jumpins, and good safe supers.

Safe Supers?

Dude.. you can't tell me that King is GOOD.

-j. jab/short...think Nak vs. Vega. They're almost as good.

yes, I like her j.jab too. Big whoop. Lot of characters have nice jump attacks. Yuri for example.

-c. strong/c. forward...netime u make em block a c. strong, u can do c. forward after, cancel into fireball or Tornado Kick.

It's not a combo unless meaty so it's not safe. And if your FB doesn't combo off the low MK, it's not safe. Tornado kick off a blocked normal is almost never safe. It might be alright for a poke string, but it doesn't make her good.

-short Tornado Kick...RC it, and it becomes even better. Good safe move to get u inside.

Comes out quick, and is safe if blocked. However they have to block the last hit. This is cool if they're hesitant/confused, or you do it while they're down/landing or something, but it's not a totally safe move.

Tornado kick has two hits. First she jump kicks, then turns her back to the opponent, then comes down with the last kick. When her back is turned she's totally vulnerable. So if you're cancelling low MKs into tornado kicks or they're just ducking and you throw out a tornado kick, all they have to do is wait for the first kick and then hit a button. If you're on the ball, it's not hard. CCing it is even easier.

Besides Kyosuke and Dan, who is shitty? Whoever they are, I think King is down there somewhere. She's got couple half-decent moves, a couple good normals, and a so-so CC. So does everyone else! If not better! Isn't she the only character in the game that can't combo or link something of her jabs? :) She's not too bad, and yeah, anyone can win. But King is not Good IMO. Eagle is Good. Yama is Good. King is not.

[caliagent#3]

Originally posted by (THE) Geese


Yeah, I'm aware of this. Too bad there is a thing called intuition. If everyone played by the theory book, most people would suck.

sorry if i burst your bubble but i just had to state the truth. King is hardly safe after any of her specials. It's not to hard to react to kind doing c.mkxxfireball. and I don't see anyone playing theory fighter here.

[Gunter]

Originally posted by Drunken Master

Dude.. you can't tell me that King is GOOD.

Well, can I tell you? I've played CvS2 in both the US and Japan. During EVO casual, I was killing many ppl with King. In Japan, King is probably my most reliable character after Bison. And it's not that they haven't seen King before... I've seen at least 3 other King players here (none in A-Groove though). Against the top players she doesn't do much but build meter, but that's all you can expect from a character that is only GOOD and not GREAT.

yes, I like her j.jab too. Big whoop. Lot of characters have nice jump attacks. Yuri for example.


J.Jab isn't so hot. If you're going to use that, you might as well use j.strong. J.FIERCE is a great air to air move (almost exactly like Yamazaki's). If you expect them to jump, use this. It's one of the best air to air moves in the game. Great against P and K players that are expecting to parry her s.roundhouse anti-air.

Comes out quick, and is safe if blocked. However they have to block the last hit. This is cool if they're hesitant/confused, or you do it while they're down/landing or something, but it's not a totally safe move.


That's the same for any move in the game. You have to know when to do it. If you space it correctly and do it at the right time, there is absolutely no reason NOT to RC this move.

The point to RCing it is to go through their attack. If you're just doing it to do it, there's no reason to RC it because the invulnerability will wear off by the time you reach them. The MAIN use for it is a far anti-air. The RC invulnerability lets you go through the jump attack, and you get the hit for free.


Besides Kyosuke and Dan, who is shitty?


ONLY Kyosuke is shitty. EVERYONE else is usable.

Whoever they are, I think King is down there somewhere. She's got couple half-decent moves, a couple good normals, and a so-so CC. So does everyone else!


NOT everyone else has a so-so CC. NOT everyone else has the ability to combo into her CC especially in the corner.

Isn't she the only character in the game that can't combo or link something of her jabs? :) She's not too bad, and yeah, anyone can win.


She can link close s.forward. And the combo I use is c.short, s.short, Short Trap Shot. I only do it in the corner usually, but I think you can do it midscreen also.


But King is not Good IMO. Eagle is Good. Yama is Good. King is not.

Umm.... Eagle and Yama only GOOD? You REALLY haven't seen good CvS2 play yet. Eagle and Yama can easily be put on almost any team and at least be good batteries. They are capable in a number of grooves. They have long range pokes for good footsies, good RCs, and good combos (b&b and CC/super). They're only "GOOD" if you only have two options - "GOOD" and "NOT good." And there's no way I'm going to put Eagle in the same grouping as A-Sak, and no way I'm going to put King in the same grouping as Kyosuke. King is lower tier, that's for sure. But there are so many usable characters in that tier that it can't NOT be "GOOD."

[Drunken Master]

Ok, lemme put it this way..

If you had to split the cast into these groups: Great, Good, Not-bad, and bad. Where would King be?

I know she's not god-awful bad, but seriously.. You yourself said she's lower tier. I guess we just having different opinions on the meaning of "good".

[caliagent#3]

He's saying that everyone is useable except kyosuke. which is true. Even dan is decent. But Kyosuke is just horrible.

[(THE) Geese]

Originally posted by caliagent#3
He's saying that everyone is useable except kyosuke. which is true. Even dan is decent. But Kyosuke is just horrible.

Kyosuke is good too. I don't see the problem.

[caliagent#3]

Originally posted by (THE) Geese


Kyosuke is good too. I don't see the problem.

good joke:lol:

[(THE) Geese]

Originally posted by caliagent#3


good joke:lol:

I am serious. I think he is good. I've never played any game where a weapon/character is so shit, he can't suceed at any level.

[caliagent#3]

well your area probably has the worst CVS2 players in the US if u r able to consistently win with kyosuke.

[Admiral Akbar]

Hm. It seems like maybe if you could revolve your game around getting a trap shot in, you could do some decent damage. This is just me talking out of mya ss though, cause I dont use king much. For example. J.rh, c.mk, hard trap shot. Does about 4200 or something, which is a pretty good amount. Trap shot isnt hard to land either, so perhaps jusjt trying to get combos like that in would be semi-effective...

Okay, i'm a dumbass. :lol:

[Gunter]

Things that can REALLY save King:

RC Mirage Kick - I've been using this lately to great success. DON'T do it if they have meter... but if you know your opponent is going to start playing footsies, this goes through their pokes and sets up

Post-Mirage Kick options

against Quick Getup immediately superjump at them. If they use Quick Getup you can hit them with a sj.roundhouse while they are still recovering, and you get a FREE combo. If you are playing against a Quick Getup groove and you have METER, superjump and see if they do a Quick Getup, then activate, sj.roundhouse, sweep, blah blah blah (I still have to experiment myself... I landed this in a match but they were already in the corner).

against grooves without Quick Getup immediately do a Double Strike (use appropriate strength) for two free chips of block damage. By that point you should be pushing them far enough back to do another fireball to setup your anti-airs.

[Gunter]

After playing around with King for a while, I came up with this combo. It's against a 60 stun character where their only mistake (other than getting hit by the first combo) is doing a safe fall (Quick Getup). Against higher stun characters, you can superjump and activate after the Tornado Kick. It works best when the Tornado Kick hits relatively near the corner.


http://www.namonaki.com/games/combos/king.zip

[caliagent#3]

Originally posted by Gunter
After playing around with King for a while, I came up with this combo. It's against a 60 stun character where their only mistake (other than getting hit by the first combo) is doing a safe fall (Quick Getup). Against higher stun characters, you can superjump and activate after the Tornado Kick. It works best when the Tornado Kick hits relatively near the corner.


http://www.namonaki.com/games/combos/king.zip

wow, that's pretty good. I'll try that out later on

[Dasrik]

Hey Gunter.

What method do you use to RC?
I use double-tap with roll+button but I only get moderate success with that.

[The V]

Quick frame data guide for King's normals. Originally posted by WraithCo.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
King Frame Data:
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

============
Normals:
============

Close Standing:
LP: 300 +3/+3, o/o/o
3/4/8
MP: 800 -5/-5, x/x/o
6/2/23
HP: 1100,900 -5/-5, x,x/o,x/o,o
4/9/20
LK: 500 +0/+0, x/o/o
4/6/9
MK: 900 -2/-2, x/o/o
3/6/15
RH: 600+700, +1/+1, x+x/x+x/x+x
8/4/5/6/17

Far standing:
LP: 200 +4/+4, o/o/o
3/4/7
MP: 800 -5/-5, x/x/o
6/2/23
HP: 1200 -1/-1, x/x/o
7/4/21
LK: 500 +1/+1, x/x/o
6/4/12
MK: 800 -7/-7, x/x/x
9/4/23
RH: 1200 -4/-4, x/x/o
6/4/24

Crouching:
LP: 200 +4/+4, o/o/o
3/3/8
MP: 700 +1/+1, x/o/o
4/8/11
HP: 1000 +0/+0, x/x/o
5/4/20
LK: 300 +4/+4, o/o/o
4/4/7
MK: 900 -3/-3, x/o/o
4/10/13
RH: 1200 down/-3, x/x/o
6/7/20

Jumping:
LP: 500
4/22
MP: 700
5/10
HP: 1200,1000
4/10
LK: 500
3/22
MK: 800
5/12
RH: 1100
5/6

Throws:
HP: 1800, 52 pixels
3/1/13
RH: 2000, 52 pixels
5/1/13

Command Move(s):
DF+RH: The slide
1100, down/-6, x/x/x, block low, parry low
19/10/20

[Iczer one]

King is actually nice in a lowjump groove. Best groove is probably N because of that, since she can also be used as a battery in that groove and has the ability to RC.

Why lowjump ? Because ALL of her air kicks fuckin' rule :tup:
lj.MK has great priority and beats a lot of things. Some characters can crouch it though. It's perfect to get close with this one, free c.LK (+ combo) afterwards.
lj.HK has good priority also, and has GREAT range. Free c.MK (+ combo) afterwards.
lj.LK stays out very long and is a great tick.

So what exactly can she do after her lowjump kicks ?

- lj.HK (hit) -> c.MK xx qcb HP (3266 damage, 27 stun)
- lj.HK (hit) -> c.MK xx qcb HP, (corner) dp HK (4152 damage, 31 stun)
=> it's tricky to link after lj.HK, but once you can do it it's a great help, and quite damaging, watch the stun ! :karate:
- lj.HK (hit) -> c.MK xx hcb HK (3400 damage, 34 stun)
=> HK tornado kick does actually more damage and stun than mirage kick (qcb HP), but beware because it whiffs when the opponent was crouching
- lj.HK (blocked) -> c.MK xx hcb HK, (follow up)
=> if blocked the HK tornado leaves you at +-0 (first hit whiffs usually though), which is very safe, you can always get a throw after this or if the opponent perfectly times a throw himself you tech it

You can do a lot more when using lj.MK since it leaves you closer ...

- lj.MK (hit) -> c.LK xx hcb LK (2100 damage)
- lj.MK (hit) -> c.MK xx hcb HK (3100 damage)
=> c.LK and c.MK both come out in 4 frames, so you can just use c.MK since it leads to more damage, but again, the tornado whiffs when the opponent was crouching
=> when you can score a deep hit, you can do this :
- lj.MK (hit) -> (close) c.LK/s.LK xx rdp LK (2703/2903 damage, 11/13 stun)
- lj.MK (hit) -> (close) c.LK/s.LK xx rdp LK, (corner) dp HK (3639/3839 damage, 15/17 stun)
- lj.MK (hit) -> (close) c.LK/s.LK xx qcb x2 K (level 3) (6100/6300 damage)
=> connecting the super is not very practical because you usually can't hit lj.MK deep enough to make the rising part of the super hit

[gig4ls]

Ok, how do u do lvl 2 qcb*2 + mk, rdp + hk in a combo? I swear I do it at the first possible instance but it still doesn't connect...

[gig4ls]

nvm, I got it, you have to literally cancel the crouching animation.

[J.D]

Does Anyone Know Whats The Best Groove For Her ^_^
Thanks ^_^

[Higher-Jin]

well you guys

she does have a decent bnb.

C. lk, standing lk, Lk Trap Shot.

and n is her supposed best groove from what i hear.

a groove is prolly second best i would guess, she can activate off of a tornado kick i think.

[ZenFire]

It's not great. It's good though (as you said 'it's decent') and you should take what you can get. I find it hard to do during matches without screwing up and getting the trap shot blocked occasionally (due mostly to my sucky hitconfirming reaction). Hardly anyone knows King so they usually don't figure out how punishable it is.

Secondly, the only time I'd really use this over c.lk*2 xx hk.Double-Strike would be in the corner, for two reasons:
Juggle after trap shot
FB's in corner have no pushback so you're very vulnerable even if it hits

Other than that, the double strike one is braindead and you don't have to worry much about whether it's blocked or not.

empty smal-jump into cr.lk*3 xx mk tornado is great to catch them blocking high, for nice style points and better positioning if it get's blocked.

[gig4ls]

What's her best follow up in the corner? Is surprise rose her only follow up in the corner? (Something tells me her supers would connect only partially at best)

[ZenFire]

Well surprise rose is the only thing that juggles (after trap shot, mirage kick and one-hit tornado kick) in the corner that doens't use meter. None of her supers at any level juggle, but her CC does. AFAIK it's the only thing that can juggle after a two hit tornado kick.

I've tried other juggles like after an AA RC_Venom-strike or 1-hit trade surprise rose (which is pretty FRIGGIN HARD to even setup in training mode), but I couldn't get any of it to work. So I'm pretty sure you can't juggle off those, but I could be wrong. Didn't do those tests with CC though. I get the feeling CC's can juggle off most anything that isn't a throw, and even THAT rule has exceptions.

The slightly worse positioning is worth the extra damage, and I do pop_a_stock (n-groove) j.hk close.s.mk xx hk.trap-shot hk.mirage-kick as Dizzy combo instead of a lvl3.

[ONION BOY]

well you guys

she does have a decent bnb.

C. lk, standing lk, Lk Trap Shot.

and n is her supposed best groove from what i hear.

a groove is prolly second best i would guess, she can activate off of a tornado kick i think.

bnb-c.lk, s.mk, rdp k or qcb p!

Can someone list, setups for her a groove cc's? Also CC combos would be nice? Been lookin everywhere, but no luck.

[Heavens Knight]

I heard that you must RC mirage kicks with King, But whats is the technique for RC i can never get it right. Are you suppose to press the 2 roll buttons first then the other punch buttons or vice versa?
Can somebody explain how to do this.

[gig4ls]

To Heavens Knight:
I forgot what the command for mirage kick is, but since you say it's a punch I'm assuming qcb+p. I do RC mirage kicks as: d + lk + lp, db, b+p
If I want to do a lp mirage kick, then I use negative edge, which I won't explain now. Otherwise, I just use my ring finger to hit the mp or hp.

To Onion boy:
The most common setups you'll see are last hit tornado kick, mirage kick, trapshot in the corner. As for her CC's, off the top of my head, I think you can try the corner cc:
[hk xx hk trapshot]*2 (maybe 3, I think you only have time for 2) c hp xx qcf, hcb + k
and here's the 1/3 screen from corner cc:
j hk * 2 (on the way up) then corner cc.
and here's her midscreen cc:
c hk xx double strike xx roll, j mp *2 (rising), carry to corner with j mk, corner cc.

I think that should be relatively correct. The last one is Gunter's special, and since he took down his site I might have remembered it incorrectly.

[Heavens Knight]

Ok Im gonna try that RC technique, anybody else has some some other ways of RC King mirage kick or trap shots.

[gig4ls]

I can RC mirage kicks about 60% of the time (I never RC when I play or practice) and I'd say trap shots about 10% of the time. I think my left hand just doesn't move the stick fast enough, but this is the motion I do:
b, d + lp + lk, db + k
Again, for lk trap shots I'd use negative edge.

Also, I think you might not need to do a double strike for the midscreen CC, it might be ok to do a regular venom strike

[Iczer one]

RC Mirage Kick and RC Trap Shot are just not worth it because they are too risky and not safe when blocked. It's all about RC Tornado Kicks.

[gig4ls]

I would argue against that, although admittedly I will talk in theory fighter here:
RC Mirage Kick is probably fine for stuff like anti-poke. RC Tornado is slower in terms of actually getting to the hitting frames unless you're very close to them (so probably not anti-poke).
RC Trap Shot is probably good for anti-air.

[TheStreetman]

I use king in A groove as ratio 1. You can use her standing roundhouse as a anti air if timed right and her crouching forward as a decent poke. Her roll isn't bad but not the best either. Crouching forward can cancel to all specials including tornado kick which is a good pressure tool if blocked because I played alot of people who block it high and leave themselves open for a ground attack, and if they block you can roll in and throw. Her specials are all good starters for mid screen to corner CC's. I hope this helps someone out :tup:

[gig4ls]

I use king in A groove as ratio 1. You can use her standing roundhouse as a anti air if timed right and her crouching forward as a decent poke. Her roll isn't bad but not the best either. Crouching forward can cancel to all specials including tornado kick which is a good pressure tool if blocked because I played alot of people who block it high and leave themselves open for a ground attack, and if they block you can roll in and throw. Her specials are all good starters for mid screen to corner CC's. I hope this helps someone out :tup:

Good stuff, I'd say if they jump in from far, try s hk or s hp, definitely don't try the s hk if they're almost on top of you, that won't aa them. Try c hp if they look like they'll jump in close/crossup, but c hp needs to be timed very well.
Her s lk is a good poke as well, c lp isn't bad, lk tornados are ok too if spaced.

King can be saved! :pleased:

[vasAZNion13]

I would argue against that, although admittedly I will talk in theory fighter here:
RC Mirage Kick is probably fine for stuff like anti-poke. RC Tornado is slower in terms of actually getting to the hitting frames unless you're very close to them (so probably not anti-poke).
RC Trap Shot is probably good for anti-air.

1)rc mirage kick leaves an opening for them to dp/rc through inbetween the two hits, iirc. so spamming it is like spamming sak's rc rh hurricane kick against people who can duck it.....but without the + frames

2)you have c.fierce as AA, so there's no reason why you ever need to rc trap shot. surprise rose is probably better cuz you can rc the rh version and not have the huge startup.

3)doing RC "punch me if you block" kicks as an anti poke is like trying to psychic dp people with shotos. you might as well use ryu and try to psychic DP people who can outpoke you.

king can't be saved, you'll just have to be satisfied with beating shitty players.

[TheStreetman]

Good stuff, I'd say if they jump in from far, try s hk or s hp, definitely don't try the s hk if they're almost on top of you, that won't aa them. Try c hp if they look like they'll jump in close/crossup, but c hp needs to be timed very well.
Her s lk is a good poke as well, c lp isn't bad, lk tornados are ok too if spaced.

King can be saved! :pleased:
Thanks for the tip. King can be played aggressively in which I think is best suited for her. Another tool to use is venom strike, but dont go crazy with it. You can use it to apply pressure but it can be rolled through. At good distance you can counter the roll with a throw or if timed right a combo starting from a low forward... no matter what use low forward... it works!!!!!!

[box]

http://www.geocities.jp/yukimura_sei/nonovsjiji.wmv

The match shows a full-screen A-groove King combo at the end. I thought they were non-existent but I guess I was wrong.

[ZenFire]

That is one very sexy CC. Thanks for the link. And considering that was a R2 sagat the damage isn't all that bad either.

[Mashf3st]

what was the input for that? All I saw was c.mkxc.hkxchpxrollxchpxrollxchpxdouble-strikexrollx2xhk into jumping fierces and a super finish. Seems easy on paper.

[ZenFire]

That's what I saw too. Seems easy enough indeed. I don't know which strength of double strikethat was, kinda looked like hk version.

[gig4ls]

I was trying that combo today, and the c hp xx roll cancelling is pretty tight, you literally need to do it as soon as you can. Also, the c hp after the roll needs to be done as soon as you can.

She does have a better fullscreen CC tho :p

[gig4ls]

Oh yeah, btw it started w/ c lk not c mk

[Dark Shinryuken]

Hah, thats a pretty nice King CC. Thanks for the vid, box. You made my day :P

That was very well played too. The only CC i've been able to come up with King that does alot of damage is-

(w/ opponent cornered)
j.HK, hcb+hk (activated) j.hk x3/4, j.hp (land) j.hk x3/4, j.hp (land) rdp+hk (trap shot w/ roundhouse) qcbx2+hk.

Its not that useful however, the Tornado Kick before activation can miss small characters like Hibiki.

I donno whats a better groove for King but I find I do better with her on A or K.

[TheStreetman]

Hah, thats a pretty nice King CC. Thanks for the vid, box. You made my day :P

That was very well played too. The only CC i've been able to come up with King that does alot of damage is-

(w/ opponent cornered)
j.HK, hcb+hk (activated) j.hk x3/4, j.hp (land) j.hk x3/4, j.hp (land) rdp+hk (trap shot w/ roundhouse) qcbx2+hk.

Its not that useful however, the Tornado Kick before activation can miss small characters like Hibiki.

I donno whats a better groove for King but I find I do better with her on A or K.
How much damage does your CC do? I have one where tho u can start off of a regular combo in the corner.... J.hk, S.mk, rdp.hk, CC, S.hk, rdp.hk, S.hk, rdp.hk, C.hp, qcf-hcb super. Its a easy combo that does alil over 8000 dmg. Plus u can use it at mid screen off of the tornado kick either in a combo like above or as a anti air. I dont know if this will work for u because am always looking for better myself, a more damaging CC is always welcomed.......:wgrin:

[Dark Shinryuken]

@Streetman

(w/ opponent cornered)
j.HK, hcb+hk (activated) j.hk x3/4, j.hp (land) j.hk x3/4, j.hp (land) rdp+hk (trap shot w/ roundhouse) qcbx2+hk.

^ That combo is slightly incorrect. Its like that but at the time I hadn't remembered my CC with her all that well. What I ment to put was this:

(w/ opponent cornered)
j.HK, c.MK, hcb+hk (activate) j.hk, j.hp x3/x5(land), j.hp x3/x5(land), j.hp x3/x5(land) rdp+hk (trap shot w/ roundhouse) qcbx2+hk.

Usually when your down to half-meter you want to use Fierce Trap Shot, since it drains health after damage scaling has already taken effect from your jumping normals.

Sometimes I jump a 3rd and continue to do more j.Fierce before I do Trap Shot.

Ratio 2 King vs Ratio 2 Raiden Stats-

Combo Damage: 7553
MAX DAMAGE: 7553
MAX Combo: 31

And the combo does average damage between 5000-6000 if you start it off without the first 4 hits before activating. Common set up is to activate for invisibility while the enemy is cornered. Just sweep them, perform a few s.HP's then go for j.HP's, when at half bar, trap shot w/ round house, end it with the same super.

[gig4ls]

And the combo does average damage between 5000-6000 if you start it off without the first 4 hits before activating. Common set up is to activate for invisibility while the enemy is cornered. Just sweep them, perform a few s.HP's then go for j.HP's, when at half bar, trap shot w/ round house, end it with the same super.

Good stuff. Alternately, there is:
(opponent cornered) [activate for invincibility] c mk c hk c hp [(wait) s hp xx rdp hk] * 2 s hp xx qcf, hcb + k

That does somewhere in the realm of 6000

[TheStreetman]

thats good shit right there. In order to get good damage off of a CC you need to start off of a regular combo... then it will do more then average damage.

[Dark Shinryuken]

Yeah, you can use LK or MK for Tornado Kick against small characters but theres a pretty big damage diffrence between each Tornado Kick.

[gig4ls]

I wonder if King has a "cross over" for her CC, in the same way as Bison can do:
(Bison in corner) [activate] c hk (wait) s hp xx scissors

which will essentially allow you to switch positions with the other character and start painting in the near corner.

I'm think if King does have that it's prolly off some funky positioning w/ her dp + k, but I'm not sure. Too busy playing Skies of Arcadia to figure it out.

[Dark Shinryuken]

Well if your implying that you can so sliding hk all day with king till you find a way to cross over, to begin with, I think her d\f+hk is a little slow especially when used in CC while activated.

I never bothered to think of maybe cancelling her dp+k, mainly because Suprise Rose is useless and I hardly ever use it.

[TheStreetman]

I agree with Dark Shinryuken, surprise rose is only good for finishing combos for a lil damage off of the juggle. As far as the slding kick goes you can start a CC and make that the first move according to the cvs 2 bible ( also known as the offical guidebook from japan. )

[Orochi Bulldog]

you can cross over blanka and honda all day long with LK and her overhead is leathal -lj.FK

[novicefighter]

Well if your implying that you can so sliding hk all day with king till you find a way to cross over, to begin with, I think her d\f+hk is a little slow especially when used in CC while activated.

I never bothered to think of maybe cancelling her dp+k, mainly because Suprise Rose is useless and I hardly ever use it.

What you said about sliding hk, well it only delays a for a short moment. It's difficult to time it if you're using the A groove. The slight chance of using Surprise Rose is when an foe fighter jumps at you from the air such as flying kick.

[Intoxicatedse7en]

I was messing with A Groove earlier and I've found this combo to be very effective.

Activate Mid Screen. It'll bounce all the way to the wall.

(Activate/Initiate A Groove) heavy tornado kick, double strike, ROLL ( You have to roll ), Dash. J. Hp to atleast 10 hits then Heavy trap shot to Silent Flash.


So

HCB+HK, QCFx2 +HK/MK (depend on size of character), Roll-Dash-Jump, J.hp, hp, hp, hp, hp, hp, reverse dp hk, Silent Flash.

[Intoxicatedse7en]

I'm not to sure if this has been posted or not, but j. lk is very good if the person doesn't throw anything out.

It has some priority..., like if you were to jump before them it works great, it crushes them down if they're in c groove, but other than that it hits if they don't have air guard. After that you can usually follow up with a c.mk to qcb. hp

Jump some new stuff.

[Batou101]

She can be a nasty invader lol

Jump into a cornered opponent using j HK then connect with s mk, then use her HK version of the trap shot.....