alpha 3 tiers?? [Archive]

yes4me

02-27-2003, 12:38 AM

You just want to play the best character to beat everyone? I am pretty sure everyone want to say that, so let me save them a post:

How about trying first every character for at least ONE week before asking such newbie question? Go to gamefaqs.com just to find out each character moves, and try all of them for at least a week. By then I am pretty sure you will know what character you like more. Then stick to that character and play him non stop for at least 10 games just to make sure you kind of know well how to play him.

If you seriously don't want to or just started to play games, eh... , just play ryu in A-ISM. He is good enough. He is the guy with a white thing on his head and broken clothes... kind of like a kamicaze who just got bombed by an atomic bomb.

glass

02-27-2003, 02:23 AM

two words;
Dhal. Sim.

yea i know that was lame.. :rolleyes:
there's a tier listing somewhere in the fat A3 thread.

js2756

02-27-2003, 09:33 AM

My advice would be to learn the game engine first. Even the best characters in this game when used by someone who doesn't know the engine can be decimated by a shitty character used by someone who does know.

If you're just starting out, you also have to know that some of the top tier require that you utilize their full arsenal to be effective.

If I told you that Zangief was in the top tier, but no techniques on how to play him, you'd probably get mopped very often, until you figured out how to fully utilize his most effective moves.

A3 is a very deep game, and learning the basics of the game engine before trying to learn characters is very important to being a good A3 player.

Good simple character to start with would probably be A-Ryu, A-Sakura, or A-Charlie.

Ryu1999

02-27-2003, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by js2756
If I told you that Zangief was in the top tier, but no techniques on how to play him, you'd probably get mopped very often, until you figured out how to fully utilize his most effective moves.

Jump fierce owns me :D

Timmmmmy

03-02-2003, 05:49 PM

can i get some simple combos for ryu/gief? k thx

?AC

03-03-2003, 03:25 AM

could any1 tell me some info on what moves are good with karin i use the qcf pp p or kick varietys and qcfuf k , are the DP K and DP , P good moves and qcb p , p .

I heard that shes best in vsim some of her combos in vsim are quite tricky to do ex.. qcf pp d k , vsim 360p , qcfufk , 360p etc..

Could u guys let me know some useful basic moves with her i know jumping wk is alright , does she have anything to stop the opponent jumping apart from d3 ..

Please could u guys answer me seriously , i am not some beginner i have been playin sf for a long time but i played marvel games more .

03-03-2003, 05:16 PM

have you tried doing a search? at the top of the page, after clicking the FORUMS tab, there's an advanced search option...

Superassrider

03-04-2003, 04:56 PM

i think the top tiers were:

A-Dhalsim
V-Akuma
V-Sakura
V-Zangief
V-Ryu

after that i dont fully remember but i know that V-Charlie and V-Karin are upper tier.

But A3 is not a scrub game,dont think by picking one of those youll own anyone. It needs skills,good mind games and lots of pratice.

marvelscrub

03-05-2003, 12:14 PM

?AC: standing fierce is good anti-air.. protects front and back. It's not instant, but it works. j.strong can be good for chasing airborne opponents after flips and stuff too.

s.forward is good poke and can be cancelled..

and V-ism is easily the best.. I honestly think she's pretty damn shitty outside of V. V has unblockable stuff, so they're very afraid to let if in close at all..

Psycho Power J

03-09-2003, 08:29 PM

Top Tier:
Dhalsim
Akuma
Zangief
Sakura
Charlie

Second Tier:
Ryu
Vega/Balrog
Sodom
Rolento
Karin

Middle Tier:
Cody
Juni
Adon
Guy
Cammy
Gen
Chun-li
Sagat
Ken
Balrog/M.Bison
M.Bison/Vega
Blanka
E. Honda
Birdie

Bottom Tier:
R.Mika
Juli
Dan
Rose

Every character in V-ism except for Dhalsim, Guy and Gen. They're best in A-ism.

SaBrE

03-09-2003, 09:57 PM

no, a lot of those characters are not best in V like you say. characters like chun are best in A/X. bison(dictator) is best in A, balrog(boxer) is totally useless in V. rolento is worst in V imo, but its still good. A/X are just superior to V for rolento. Ken is also debatable. only top tier is guarunteed best in V with the exception of sim. v-sim is deadly, but eats crossups allday as opposed to a-sim. too hard to give a comprehensive tier rating cuz of the isms and how they dramatically change most characters. only the top tier ranking is solid. the other 80% of the roster is so debatable that its not even worth breaking down

Psycho Power J

03-10-2003, 03:26 AM

I did forget a couple of characters. I should have at least remembered that Rolento is best A-ism, especially since I use him too. I guess that's what you get with cut and paste. :bluu:

Timmmmmy

03-12-2003, 12:25 AM

u know for Vsm... how does this work? i guess im too used to cvs2 style.. is it just.. 3 shadows... and they hit the guy too? seems really slow tho.. hehe can anyone gime some easy akuma/ryu/gief combos for a/v .. ya ok thx

js2756

03-12-2003, 08:40 AM

The way V-Ism works is you have a bunch of shadows, but only one will actually hit (you can tell because it is darker). Depending on what buttons you use to activate the VC with (JP + SK = VC1, SP + FK = VC2, FP + RK = VC3), hte shadow will have a certain delay on it, with VC1's shadow hitting quickly after you, while VC3s hits the latest after you do. The main trick to doing effective VCs is to ensure that the shadow hits your opponent while your actual character is in neutral states, which prevents your opponent from flipping or rolling out.

Easy VCs (all VC1) to start with:
Ryu (in corner):
1) repeated fierce blue hadokens
2) fierce hadoken, hopkick, repeat

Sakura (anywhere): jab DP, [b+ FP, whiff forward hurricane kick] repeat brackets until the corner then: [neutral FP, whiff hadoken] repeat until 5% meter left, then neutral FP, DP+K, P, P, P
You may have to switch to a short hurricane instead of a forward, depending on the spacing.

Akuma: probably easiest (but lots of room for variation), but least damaging VC from anywhere: jab DP, [fierce Hadoken, fierce demon flip + P] repeat until corner, [neutral FP, whiff hadoken] end with fierce DP.
Guard Crush VC (in corner): [fierce red fireball, hopkick] repeat

ironflip

03-14-2003, 08:12 AM

depends wat you have?? For the dc version it has to be v-sagat. He has crazy priority with the cr. Fierce. So play that for dc and play dhalsim for the arcades. But you should really try to find your character. Learning top tier just sin't really fun.

jchensor

03-14-2003, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by Timmmmmy
u know for Vsm... how does this work? i guess im too used to cvs2 style.. is it just.. 3 shadows... and they hit the guy too? seems really slow tho.. hehe can anyone gime some easy akuma/ryu/gief combos for a/v .. ya ok thx

-- Time for Another jchensor Shameless Plug --

Check out my FAQ on Game-FAQs for the game. It's outdated, but all the basics of Custom Combos are in there. If you also don't understand the when's and how's of Flipping, making Customs are impossible. I talk about that as well.

And I will always stand by my argument: R.Mika is NOT BOTTOM TIER!!!! ^_^ I don't care what anyone says, I still really like playing her.

And Seriously, Alpha 3 rankings are not that far apart. Whereas characters like Sagat, Blanka, and Cammy are obviously top tier in CvS2, Akuma, Sakura, Zangief, Dhalsim, and Ryu (and Charlie) are all top tier only by a slight margin, because it requires so much skill to use them in a top tier fashion. Likewise, the middle tier is barely worse than the Second tier. And the bottom tier, yeah they aren't so hot, but they can still be played decently. And again, R.Mika belongs in the middle tier. ^_^

I still enjoy Alpha 3 much more than CvS2 because the game is so much more offensive.

- James

SaBrE

03-14-2003, 05:59 PM

i agree with james here 100%. tier differences are so minimal in this game. ive seen plenty of people whoop ass with the non top characters. ive done it myself and continue to win tourneys with lower tiered characters like a-ken,v-cody, x-rog, x-ryu and such. granted my best characters are top tier. but i can still get similar results with the weaker characters, just gotta put a little extra effort into it and gotta be creative. nothing is more useful than a character no one has any true experience fighting against. low tiers get that advantage since they arent used as much. while on paper, they arent as good, they gain the "element of suprise" that can even catch the best players off guard.

also, if you dont know how the flip out rules work, good luck figuring out real vc combos. learning the engine is a must to doing em effectively and making your own.

and i agree, r.mike is far from bottom tier, shes got an awesome ground game. i also think birdie isnt bottom tier. that fool has got some dirty tricks

Iczer one

03-14-2003, 07:51 PM

Rose at the absolute Bottom ?! Fuck that shit. Better start kickin' some ass with her in A-Ism instead of V, 'cuz it's her best anyway. V is good too, but A-Rose remains supreme :cool:

And yeah, V- R.Mika is some sick stuff.

Whatever.

magnet-0

03-14-2003, 09:56 PM

Just check out the FAQs at www.gamefaqs.com

There are really no tiers. If you've mastered them, then there's no need for STUPID TIERS!!!! Tiers are for those who want to choose their beginning characters.

NerenatwaH

03-15-2003, 11:53 AM

uhh iono about putting Charlie(Nash) in front of Ryu.

and to people saying "there's no tiers" "learn the game yourself" shut up...there's tiers....tiers own your ass...tiers will own his ass...he's better off picking an easy top tier character...learning the game from using that character....then drifting off to other characters he was interested in.

jae hoon

03-15-2003, 02:15 PM

Shakes fist in angry rage! Dan is not bottom tier:mad:

bushin187

03-15-2003, 02:21 PM

being bottom tier in a3 doesn't mean you suck. Middletier and toptier are just better but not so much that low tiers can't be played competitively.

Should sim still be number one with v-akuma and v-sak around. ??

jae hoon

03-15-2003, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by bushin187
being bottom tier in a3 doesn't mean you suck. Middletier and toptier are just better but not so much that low tiers can't be played competitively.

Should sim still be number one with v-akuma and v-sak around. ??

In a word, Yes.

Seriously though, imo I dont think Dan is bottom tier, people just say its Dan without even bothering to see what the man can do. But you are right just about any character can win. Apoc proved that when he played Balrog against the Japanese and at the time Balrog was considered to be maybe the 15th or 16th best character in the game.

bushin187

03-15-2003, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by jae hoon

In a word, Yes.

Seriously though, imo I dont think Dan is bottom tier, people just say its Dan without even bothering to see what the man can do. But you are right just about any character can win. Apoc proved that when he played Balrog against the Japanese and at the time Balrog was considered to be maybe the 15th or 16th best character in the game.

Yes his rog is the shit. If balrog wasn't a charge char I'd pick him up. too bad i'm a qcf kinda guy:rolleyes:

jchensor

03-17-2003, 11:59 AM

Saying there is no tiers is not accurate. There are definitely tiers, regardless of skill of player or not. BUT that should not limit your choices. I think, for example, V-Cody is an EXCELLENT character: he fights Dhalsim REALLY well, Zangief well, Sakura fairly decently, and goes through Ryu's Fireballs. His ONLY problem is Akuma, because of the Air Fireball glitch (dodges that and gets stuck). But you can get around that with good play. Just don't get knocked down. :-(

My point is that there are tiers. Dhalsim (A or V), V-Sakura, V-Akuma, V-Ryu, V-Zangief... they are top tier. They ARE better than the other characters. But that doesn't mean if you are learning the game you should pick them up, because they may just NOT be your style. Playing a middle tier character who fits your style means you are 100% better than using a top tier character who isn't your style. That is why I don't play Sagat and Blanka in CvS2 tourneys. I'm not some crusader against "scrubby" characters. Hell, I use Cammy in that game. They just don't fit my style, and my performance with them is sub-par. Which doesn't get you wins in tourneys.

I recommend really thinking about your fighting style. If you want to pick up Alpha 3, definitely go with the type you like. If you like Grapplers, by all means, use 'Gief. He's a GREAT choice and he'll suit your style. If you are good with Shotos but can't do Combos, go with A-Ryu, who is still decent. If you like Combos, use V-Akuma. If your forte is good ground poke footsie games, go with V-Sakura. And then, if Dhalsim floats your boat, go for Dhalsim.

BUT if you really like lots of button tapping and complex characters, PICK GUY. Playing him for a long period of time will make you good t him. If you like Combo intesive characters who just have all these weird tricks and set-ups, play Gen. If you like Jumping a lot, play Cody. Whatever. Jut play until you find someone who suits your style. Even Alex Navarro, when he was in Florida, racked up tons of wins with Juni. Go with who you know.

- James

SaBrE

03-18-2003, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by jchensor
I think, for example, V-Cody is an EXCELLENT character: he fights Dhalsim REALLY well, Zangief well, Sakura fairly decently, and goes through Ryu's Fireballs. His ONLY problem is Akuma, because of the Air Fireball glitch (dodges that and gets stuck). But you can get around that with good play. Just don't get knocked down. :-(

i just wanted to state, if akuma does air fireball on cody with meter from any range that causes cody to dodge, its a free vc for cody, into infinite. you can also ruffian out of the glitch. but if you are inexperienced with the matchup, the freeze is gonna own you. i think the scarier matchup is cody vs gief. free spd for gief after a dodged banishing fist, and a good glitchdriver setup. but like you said, if you can avoid it, its a good fight. oh yeah, it sucks when geif makes cody block splash,d/b+forward,banishing fist combo. that shit eats all his guard and its over after that :(

Solid-Snake

03-18-2003, 03:35 AM

i still play V-Rose no matter what anybody else says, i found an effective 40% fullscreen anti-air VC and in the corner 65%, her ground game is still awesome, especially in V, she has all her old moves like 6RH for example....

gaf a si ynnot

03-18-2003, 04:22 AM

I dont ever see any low tiers ever being used in tournys but im not shure about jp. I would like to see some good Blanka.

03-18-2003, 04:22 AM

1. Balrog is good. Balrog was towards the bottom of second tier in a lot of people's listings ever since like B4 back in 2000. So Apoc doing well at Evo2k didn't affect his rankings TOO much, I think.

2. Dan is not good. But he has some stuff to work with...V-Dan is playable. There are several characters who I would consider worse than him. Well...2....Honda and Juli. But that's plural, right?

3. Rose is not the worst character in the game.

4. The thing about A-Rose vs V (as far as which is better) is that damage reduction (counter mashing) really kills A and X. If you couldn't mash her supers down, A-Rose would be so, so good. Or even if you couldn't mash it down as much. But you can, so neh. Still pretty good. V-Rose doesn't gain much that A-Rose doesn't have, other than an unblockable glitch which I'm taking to my grave, better damage (via VCs), and small benefits from command normals (a few new combos, s.Fk as a poke, about 3 new anti airs, etc). I hesistate to say which is better, since I haven't played A3 seriously for a pretty long time, but all things considered, they're ABOUT equal. A is better vs Dhalsim because of the supers, V is better vs Gief because of the normals, etc.

Apoc

03-18-2003, 07:33 AM

Originally posted by TS
1. Balrog is good. Balrog was towards the bottom of second tier in a lot of people's listings ever since like B4 back in 2000. So Apoc doing well at Evo2k didn't affect his rankings TOO much, I think.

2. Dan is not good. But he has some stuff to work with...V-Dan is playable. There are several characters who I would consider worse than him. Well...2....Honda and Juli. But that's plural, right?

3. Rose is not the worst character in the game.

4. The thing about A-Rose vs V (as far as which is better) is that damage reduction (counter mashing) really kills A and X. If you couldn't mash her supers down, A-Rose would be so, so good. Or even if you couldn't mash it down as much. But you can, so neh. Still pretty good. V-Rose doesn't gain much that A-Rose doesn't have, other than an unblockable glitch which I'm taking to my grave, better damage (via VCs), and small benefits from command normals (a few new combos, s.Fk as a poke, about 3 new anti airs, etc). I hesistate to say which is better, since I haven't played A3 seriously for a pretty long time, but all things considered, they're ABOUT equal. A is better vs Dhalsim because of the supers, V is better vs Gief because of the normals, etc.

Just Curious. Does the unblockable refer to one where you jump at them with short after a quick low hit with the middle vc? heheh

Apoc.

SaBrE

03-18-2003, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by Apoc

Just Curious. Does the unblockable refer to one where you jump at them with short after a quick low hit with the middle vc? heheh

Apoc.

that just sounds like the typical vc madness any character can do :D

03-19-2003, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by Apoc

Just Curious. Does the unblockable refer to one where you jump at them with short after a quick low hit with the middle vc? heheh

Apoc.

very funny.

jae hoon

03-20-2003, 07:14 PM

Eh I like Dan myself, im not very good at custom combos though. I usually end up using Dan and Ken as my main characters. It just doesnt seem you can really win with them without customs.

SaBrE

03-20-2003, 07:39 PM

Ken can win a lot of fights in A-ism, i think its his best mode IMO. his crouch cancelling off j.fierce ch is too good. his s.roundhouse and f+roundhouse are excellent. and his dp's are awesome. very solid character. just lacks a couple things as opposed to the other shotos like a hopkick. but overall, hes solid. high 2nd tier

03-21-2003, 10:51 AM

xken standing fierce is too good. i just throw it out and let ppl walk into it

Superassrider

03-21-2003, 02:44 PM

I made this tier list,which is pretty reasonable IMO. If u disagree with one thing don't start yelling, just explain why I misjudge and blablabla.

Top Tier:
A-Dhalsim (can air teleport from V-Ism combos,insane priority etc)
V-Akuma (Very versatile, damaging V-ism, OTG and all)
V-Sakura (Insane Priority, best cross up, abusive anti-air VC)
V-Zangief (Inceased SPD range,Kattobi cancel, Strong air game)
V-Ryu (good normals,crouch cancel infinite,all around)

Second Tier:
V-Charlie (excellent pokes,nice VC,crouch cancel after combo etc)
V-Vega (good pokes,good air game,good pressure character)
A/V Rolento (nice priority,nice air game,decent supers and V-Ism)
V-Karin (Unblockable V-Ism, nice cross up, versatile)
V-Sodom (Optimal range, pressure character, OTG)

Middle Tier:
X-Juni ( apparently very strong,never saw one)
V-Cody (dodges,good pokes,)
V-Sagat (decent V-Ism combo,decent priority)
A-Gen (good pokes,nice cross up,good supers)
V-Cammy (good pokes,decent V-Ism)
X/A Balrog (good pokes,nice range)
A-Rose (nice range and pokes,nice Crouch canceling too)
X/A/V Ken (good pokes,solid character)
X/A/V Chun-Li (varies with different Ism but pretty solid)
X-Blanka (fast and effective)
A-Bison ( hes not that bad,nice air game)
A/V-Mika (nice V-Ism with OTG,pretty damaging supers too)
A-Guy ( nice supers,decent pokes etc...)
V-Dan ( pushblock,nice VC,bad special moves, qcb+kick is okay)
A/V Birdie (never got to see one that really impressed me)

Bottom Tier :
X/A/V Juni (sucks in any mode)
X/A/V E.Honda (sucks in any mode)

comments?

03-21-2003, 03:18 PM

why a/v rolento over x?

jchensor

03-21-2003, 05:20 PM

A few arewas of disagreement. I won't argue tiers, because 1) They'revery subjective. 2) The ones you have listed are about right. I'm questioning sticking Vega is Second Tier, but it's not far off. Also, I've always been opposed to the way the tiers are named, I would prefer to name them: "Top Tier", "Almost Top Tier", "Second Tier", and "Middle Tier". That kinda helps alleviate the impression that the lowest tier is "bottom tier". Helps make it clearer that the final tier isn't that much worse off than the top tier.

Only one main argument: Honda is not a bad character in V-Ism. He's got a legitimate anti-air VC in V-Ism, at least. I would still stick him in the 3rd tier.

A-Dhalsim (can air teleport from V-Ism combos,insane priority etc)

V-Dhalsim supposedly is just as good.

V-Zangief (Inceased SPD range,Kattobi cancel, Strong air game)

Also because V-Ism can be used as a reaction to other people's V-Isms. It protects him when he Jumps in against characters with Anti-Air VC's. Also, when he needs to win a round, it allows for an almost guaranteed SPD.

X-Juni ( apparently very strong,never saw one)

Not sure about X-Ism. I know her Hooligan throw (low catch or air-to-air catch) does 33% damage, but that doesn't justify her being the best Ism. I think V-Ism might still be the best Ism for her, because of the inherent aid that V-Ism gives.

A/V-Mika (nice V-Ism with OTG,pretty damaging supers too)

V-Ism 100% better than A-Ism. Without V-Ism, she can't beat Zangief. And her anti-air Custom Combo does way too much damage to be trivial. Makes her way more deadly, and also gives her some free SPDs in clutch situations.

A/V Birdie (never got to see one that really impressed me)

Don't deny X-Ism Birdie, who I think is the best. Damage is huuuge and really easy to Combo into his Super (if you ever land a Counter Hit Crouch Fierce, Level 3 Super is for free if you Buffer on 2nd Hit). He can't do much else besides brute force the enemy to death, so the aided VC's and A-Ism Supers don't really add to his game much. He's gotta do the damage in whatever way he can. Basically, I think Birdie is probably legit in all three Isms.

X/A/V E.Honda (sucks in any mode)

Again, reiterating that V-Ism Honda is the best, by far, and actually makes him fairly competent.

X/A/V Juni (sucks in any mode)

But she's the Sodom Killer!!! (No, she actually isnt', she sucks. That is an inside joke between me and my friends. Please ignore. ^_^).

* * *

Lastly, and I know my opinion on this differs greatly from everyone else, where do people think the New Challengers (Dee Jay, Fei Long, T. Hawk, Guile, and Evil Ryu) fall into these tiers from the home versions?

- James

Kikosho

03-21-2003, 05:31 PM

Can someone tell me the differences with the console version? Someone said that the console versions tiers are different for some reason (V-ism getting powered down I guess). Thoughts?

magnet-0

03-21-2003, 10:23 PM

I think X-Dhalsim is better than A-Dhalsim. Yoga Tempest replaces the Yoga Strike and Yoga Inferno, and he is easier to use in keep-away (computer automatically decides which attack will come out for normal attacks, and Yoga Fire always knocks down and doesn't fizzle out).

mondu_the_fat

03-22-2003, 12:24 AM

Magnet-o: While I always play X-Sim over Z-Sim, Z-Sim is just plain better. Why? Because of precisely the reason you mentioned: the computer decides which limb range to use. It can make mistakes, and with things like VC drop throughs very _lethal_ mistakes. In the case of Z-Sim, any mistake made will be your own -- therefore Z-Sim, while requiring more skill and attention to play, has greater potential.

X-Sim also takes block damage like a whore. Nearly 40% from AKuma's, for example.

As fo Z-Sim Yoga Escape... frankly I haven't met anyone who can do this well enough for me to comment on it.

bushin187

03-23-2003, 12:19 AM

Guy should be higher. you put R-mika above him
:confused:

Muskau

03-23-2003, 07:07 AM

Adon isn't listed in the tiers, I'm not sure where he would go, X/A/V all have there uses, X is easy to use and powerful, A has an extra super, AC, and better air game. V is tough to use, but has some crazy VC's. But I dont think V is really worth the extra effort.

If your using Ken stick to either X or V, I think A is just wayy too average. X has huuge damage potential, and V gives the obvious VC's etc, plus the controllable normals, which I think really helps his game. Even though hes still pretty much outclassed by Gouki and Ryu because of the hopkick and divekick, he can still pull some tricks.

X-Rolento is powerful and has good mobility, but unless you play a flawless keepaway game, you've got pretty much no defense against VC's

I heard Bison can be played in X and V as well, but I'm not sure of their effectiveness

shadowcharlie

03-23-2003, 12:07 PM

i think guy should be higher
also i think that when i was talking to bas on mirc in oct he said v ryu v geif and v chuck were really close in listings.

Psycho Power J

03-24-2003, 11:31 PM

Originally posted by Superassrider
Top Tier:
V-Ryu (good normals,crouch cancel infinite,all around)

Second Tier:
V-Charlie (excellent pokes,nice VC,crouch cancel after combo etc)I heard that Ryu went down and Charlie moved up, because Ryu doesn't do well against the other top-tier characters, even though he's good against anyone else. Charlie went up since he does well against the other top-tier characters except against Dhalsim.Middle Tier:
X-Juni (apparently very strong, never saw one)She does incredible damage, especially with her Cross Scissors Pressure. However, I think she's best in V-ism because she has a lot more options available to her.X/A/V Juni (sucks in any mode)I think you mean Juli.Originally posted by jchensor
Lastly, and I know my opinion on this differs greatly from everyone else, where do people think the New Challengers (Dee Jay, Fei Long, T. Hawk, Guile, and Evil Ryu) fall into these tiers from the home versions?

- James In my opinion, Guile is at the bottom of the middle tier, because he's so weak. He's still better than Juli though. Dee Jay with his zero recovery on his air slash and Feilong with his priority puts them at least the second tier. Evil Ryu is Regular Ryu on steroids, so he's somewhere above Regular Ryu. T. Hawk is okay. Just put him around the middle tier.Originally posted by Kikosho
Can someone tell me the differences with the console version? Someone said that the console versions tiers are different for some reason (V-ism getting powered down I guess). Thoughts? Can't list all the differences, but the most notable differences is that Guile, T. Hawk, Dee Jay, and Feilong can be chosen, and that the window of invincibility in activating V-ism is shorter.

SaBrE

03-24-2003, 11:50 PM

no way, v-deejay is #2 character in my book on console IMO. #1 being v-akuma of course since sim is crazy weak. he was so good they had to do major tweaks with him on Z3 upper. his pressure is sickening. excellent vc's. good variation of vc's too. that projectile is WAAAAY too good. good crossup. and his ground game is superb. excellent priority on his ground normals. hes got some really good cc's too. too bad hes not in arcade(not counting upper).

Middlekick

03-25-2003, 01:55 PM

Evil Ryu is worse than Ryu for 2 reasons, he takes more damage than normal Ryu and also his HK doesn't do as much dizzy as normal Ryu's.

I think Guile is the worst character in the game.

SaBrE

03-25-2003, 02:07 PM

agreed, guile is so crappy. thats the only character i see in all of a3 that cant do anything at all. nothing works with him

jchensor

03-25-2003, 02:29 PM

See, this is where I disagree with everyone: I think Dee Jay sucks in the home version.

Okay, maybe not sucks, but I say that to give everyone the idea that I don't think he's that good. Sure, he has a no-recovery fireball... so what? NONE of his normal moves are good anti-air. In fact, the only good anti-air he has is a follow up Jumping Forward (which beats most air to air moves). But outside of that, if he throws a fireball and you Jump at him, what does he do? The beauty of Alpha 3 is that it's one of the only Street Fighter games where Jump attacks have HUGE INSANE priority (which is how it hsould be, IMO). Dee Jay can't stop a 'Gief splash or a Cody Jumping Roundhouse or a Rose Jump Short or a Sakura Jump Roundhouse or a Karin jump Short or a Sodom Jump Forward. When you throw a fireball with Dee Jay, you expose yourself to a world of hurt. Sure, you can block, but the enemy has all the momentum at this point. I still have yet to be convinced that Dee Jay is any good on the home versions. He's middle tier, but I'd stick him at the tail end of it.

Guile goes into Bottom tier, no question. No priority on anything he does. Razor Kick doesn't even work.

Fei Long, in X-Ism, is waaaay too powerful. I think he's second tier.

T. Hawk isn't too hot either. But he'd go middle tier probably.

And Evil Ryu isn't that good. He has no distinct advantages over Ryu. His Raging Demon is horrible (not like Akuma's was any good) and as someone mentioned, his Hurricane Kick no longer Dizzies well. So I actually think normal Ryu is still better.

And magnet-0, X-Dhalsim not being able to control limbs is huge. A and V Dhalsim can control their limbs, and I dunno if you've seen it before, but when they Jump, Back + Fierce and Back + Strong have the most insane priority for Jumping Attacks in the game. They beat EVERYTHING.

- James

Superassrider

03-25-2003, 06:22 PM

I noticed the answers on my tier list. Well first of all:

Honda sucks because he has no good normals to depend on, his special moves arent too great too. He can't do anything that another character can do better. Maybe he has some ood V-ism,but it takes more than that to make a good character.

I also don't see the point why Guy should be higher, his normal are decent but his special moves ain't that good, so are his supers. I also think V-Mika is better than him.

The second Juni( in the bottom tier section) is Juli,sorry about that small mistakes.Also sorry about Adon not being there,I'll edit the list soon to put him somewhere,i'll think about it again.

Guile is not in the tier list,because it is clear that he sucks.

I also consider A/V rolento better than X-Ism,because of Alpha counter,he akso needs crouch canceling which is not as good in X-Ism,because every rolento's jump is a super jump in X. I also think V-Mika is better than A,but some people disagree with that,and its not really a good idea to debbate about that cause it aint a Mika thread.

About that V-Ryu thing going down and V-Charlie going up,it might be possible cause what you stated is true,I don't know about Ryu being bad against other top tiers but As a V-Charlie player,hes good against everyone but Dhalsim,like most of the people.

hope I've cleared some things out.

jchensor

03-25-2003, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by Superassrider
I also don't see the point why Guy should be higher, his normal are decent but his special moves ain't that good, so are his supers. I also think V-Mika is better than him.

I didn't even realize that any of the tiers you had listed were actually ordered. :-P I thought it was just the characters in that tier in no particular order...

If that's the case, then, yes, Guy is MUCH too low. Guy is actually potentially really powerful. Nothing he has seems to be too good at first, but combining everything together makes for a very frightening character. Mostly once he gets in, and starts getting you with lots of Rushdown tactics (utilizing all of his special moves, including the Short Run), he can do some serious damage. And then, if you leave yourself vulnerable for even a second, his Combos are probably the most devastating in the game. His A-Ism Combos rival that of the best V-Isms in terms of damage.

As for E. Honda, he is still ranked too low. Yeah, granted, he's not the greatest thing in the world, but he's really not that awful. He's got a lot of really nice tricks (for example, if you Crouch Fierce a Ryu or Ken or Akuma and follow-up immediately with a Jumping Roundhouse, Shotos can't DP you: you'll land and block 100% of the time. If they don't DP, your Roundhouse will still connect. It's interesting). I wouldn't count him that low.

- James

SaBrE

03-25-2003, 07:28 PM

guy is a very frightening character indeed. and you are crazy if you think his supers arent all that. so many ways to reset into his AA super. plus its scary if the lvl3 rush hits you. you losing atleast 70% on that guarunteed. his normals is very good. AA c.strong into izuna drop is too good. his poking game and rushdown is some of the most solid in the game. problem is, you gotta be pretty damn experienced to use him right. one of the harder characters to use in the game. he is downright a scary character

Ryu1999

03-25-2003, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by Psycho Power J
I heard that Ryu went down and Charlie moved up, because Ryu doesn't do well against the other top-tier characters, even though he's good against anyone else. Charlie went up since he does well against the other top-tier characters except against Dhalsim.

ryu is still better than...well the rest of the cast so a one place change (within the top tier) doesn't shove him out. though sometimes i wonder how good he really is since sakura/gief/sim/charlie own him pretty bad. well not so much charlie. i've never really had a problem with a good charlie, but turtle sakuras, jump stingy giefs and rushdown sims own me for free

bushin187

03-26-2003, 01:11 AM

Originally posted by Superassrider
I noticed the answers on my tier list. Well first of all:

I also don't see the point why Guy should be higher, his normal are decent but his special moves ain't that good, so are his supers. I also think V-Mika is better than him.

It's true that guy doesn't really have normals and specials he can abuse. But he's still such a good char because of his ability to rushdown.
And about his supercombo's. Bushinmusourenka kinda sucks his punch super is very good anti-air and last but not least his lvl 3 kick super which is the best. You can do chains after it and it has good priority. Guy can do like 70 to 80 % damage with his lvl3 kicksuper and 40 to 50 % without super ( in corner) :eek: :eek:
eat your hart out v-akuma :p
No way r-mika is better than him.

Slap yourself j/k
:lol:

Psycho Power J

03-26-2003, 09:43 AM

I think Guy should be a bit higher too. I found out with a bit of practice that Guy can be really good and could put on some real pressure. For an A-ism character, he has some really damaging combos. He has good high-low mix ups with his overheads; HK run kick, f+MP and close MP. His close MP is the fastest overhead I know and link to his FP.

My main problem with Guy though is that you need to stick to your opponents like glue. His best strategies involves him being on your opponents' face. Anything that effectively keeps him away also puts him in trouble. And when up close, he risks eating a VC.

I don't put Guile in the bottom tier because he's pretty good in X-ism. I only find his Sonic Boom weak; his normals and Somersault aren't bad. I play him as if he has no Sonic Boom (which does so pitifully little damage that I don't bother with it).

bushin187

03-26-2003, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by Psycho Power J

My main problem with Guy though is that you need to stick to your opponents like glue. His best strategies involves him being on your opponents' face. Anything that effectively keeps him away also puts him in trouble. And when up close, he risks eating a VC.

it).

His rushdown is pretty safe . You should stick to runs because izuna drop can be vc'ed pretty easy. It depends on the char your fighting. Against sim izuna drop is ok but against charlie you should stick to ground chains.

you are a guy player? plz post in guy thread i'm so alone :D

Speaking of charlie.

charlie> ryu

But i watched a vid of daigo playing v-ryu and he was owning a v-charlie player. I never realised hadokens were such a big weapon against sak and charlie. What kind of hadokens is daigo using :confused:. They just can't seem to get past them

03-26-2003, 01:07 PM

when characters don't like to jump (ie charlie) that let's Ryu know to poke them to death and try to corner them. Failing that, he throws hot chi in their face.

Guile sorta sucks, but he has a couple nice VCs. Probably about as good as Dan.

Superassrider

03-30-2003, 09:15 AM

Originally posted by bushin187

His rushdown is pretty safe . You should stick to runs because izuna drop can be vc'ed pretty easy. It depends on the char your fighting. Against sim izuna drop is ok but against charlie you should stick to ground chains.

you are a guy player? plz post in guy thread i'm so alone :D

Speaking of charlie.

charlie> ryu

But i watched a vid of daigo playing v-ryu and he was owning a v-charlie player. I never realised hadokens were such a big weapon against sak and charlie. What kind of hadokens is daigo using :confused:. They just can't seem to get past them

Hadokens suck against sakura,each time someone throws in a hadoken,he says HIT ME WITH YOUR VC!!! If sakura activates she can go through the hadoken and whoop your ass with her vc.

And I may have been wrong for Guy,just never happen to see a good guy player.

SaBrE

03-30-2003, 11:18 AM

for real bro, once you see a really good guy player, he gets extremely scary. fool does VC damage with all his A-ism combos. and his rushdown is too good. hes one of the harder guys for me to fight IMO. just cuz he can make you second guess to make a mistake into any one of his damaging setups...

bushin187

03-30-2003, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by Superassrider

Hadokens suck against sakura,each time someone throws in a hadoken,he says HIT ME WITH YOUR VC!!! If sakura activates she can go through the hadoken and whoop your ass with her vc.

And I may have been wrong for Guy,just never happen to see a good guy player.

It's daigo lol. I think he knows what he's doing. But i don't understand it either. I mean the guy is trying to poke but just keeps eating hadokens. When he jumps shoryuken.

I have guy matches if you want some. I think guy is very good against

sim charlie rolento sagat cody ( that's a nice list)

Ts nice. Ryu in a nutshell;)

Ryu1999

03-30-2003, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by bushin187

It's daigo lol. I think he knows what he's doing. But i don't understand it either. I mean the guy is trying to poke but just keeps eating hadokens. When he jumps shoryuken.

I have guy matches if you want some. I think guy is very good against

sim charlie rolento sagat cody ( that's a nice list)

Ts nice. Ryu in a nutshell;)

yo, if you'd be willing to share these daigo matches, i'd really appreciate it :-D

bushin187

03-31-2003, 08:22 AM

Originally posted by Ryu1999

yo, if you'd be willing to share these daigo matches, i'd really appreciate it :-D

Sure, but you have to get on direct connect. these files are big (two times 180 megs). But i'ts like 70-80 min all Daigo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(playing only v-ryu)

1 www.neo-modus.com
2 connect to goforbroke.no-ip.com

goforbroke hub is filled with a3 vids man !

Ps. my name there is bushin. If i'm not on you can get the files from other people a lot of people have it. filenames are

masumi(1p)vsdaigo(2p)z3_1
masumi(1p)vsdaigo(2p)z3_2

gawsome

05-08-2003, 11:26 AM

V-ryu has great potential, but most people cant reach the very top with him. But as I recall both Daigo and Valle use him, and as I recall they have a habit of owning practically everyone else.

Fei-Long is definately second tier in console - c.fierce is just too damn good, he has speed, decent damage etc. If you are fighting someone who isnt in v-ism you should own them with fei-long. And with alpha counters in a-ism you're sorted.

Evil ryu is not worth the time of day - inferior to Ryu.

Shin-akuma can be good but man you die fast.I prefer akuma as it happens.

I am also quite pleased with x-chun-li, but damn do u have to be super careful against v-ism players.

Feel free to disect this.

Ryu1999

05-08-2003, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by gawsome
V-ryu has great potential, but most people cant reach the very top with him. But as I recall both Daigo and Valle use him, and as I recall they have a habit of owning practically everyone else.

only thing wrong with v-ryu is that everything he does, v-akuma does better. ryu can't run-away as well as akuma, he has no good midscreens etc etc, so he gets beat by the other people in the top 5. where akuma is far more mobile and can take off heaps of damage anywhere on the screen.

yes4me

05-08-2003, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by SaBrE
for real bro, once you see a really good guy player, he gets extremely scary. fool does VC damage with all his A-ism combos. and his rushdown is too good. hes one of the harder guys for me to fight IMO. just cuz he can make you second guess to make a mistake into any one of his damaging setups...

My favorite games of all time in any fighting games are Gen vs Guy. It is really fun to watch, fast pace, and it is all about combos in A-ISM. I played only one time against a fairly good Guy (which was about my skill level) but it was gold.

PS: I wish I could find a good close-match vid of Gen vs Guy... That would be the bomb.

05-09-2003, 01:52 AM

I fought Choi's A-Guy at a tournament recently...my current record vs Choi stands at 9-0. Possibly 10-0. But anyway, that hurricane kick is REALLY good. Not abusive-good, but it's basically a psychic DP with extended SPD range...you can hit people out of any move, even stuff that should go under it. Hard for a couple of characters to punish effecively, too. Nice to have.

Originally posted by gawsome
V-ryu has great potential, but most people cant reach the very top with him. But as I recall both Daigo and Valle use him, and as I recall they have a habit of owning practically everyone else.

Evil ryu is not worth the time of day - inferior to Ryu.

Shin-akuma can be good but man you die fast.I prefer akuma as it happens.

Feel free to disect this.

The thing about Ryu (as stated before) is that he doesn't have the same options as the other top tier characters...just the lack of a good non-cc midscreen hurts him a lot, and keeps him from being sort of an easy-mode character like Sak, even with the infinite. So you have to plan more, and he takes a little more understanding than a lot of characters. Like for example at B5, in the matches between BAS (V-Akuma) and Valle (V-Ryu), Valle would frequently save his VC meter just to counter BAS' VC actiavation, and prevent him from landing a VC. Either that, or try to do one of those Valle-only freestyle VCs, and so it would sometimes boil down to more "normal" SF, because there were only a few situations in which they would VC each other, and the rest of the match was basically spent baiting VCs by doing stuff that would get you kiilled by VCs, that you shouldn't have been doing (aka playing SF). I ramble.

Don't get me wrong, Ryu still has some ridiculous, evil shit...but it doesn't come as easy as with Sim or Sak or Akuma, or even Charlie or the characters Ryu is better than.

Evil Ryu is probaby not as good as regular Ryu, but I never tested out to see if his teleport gives him a good midscreen. If it does, then that's definitely a good thing. And can 2p Evil Ryu do the infinite? I know E.Ryu is a little faster that the regular one, and that can mess with the timing a little. All around he's a good character, but I agree generally inferior to Ryu.

I think one of the reasons Shin Akuma is good in the console versions is his stupid air fireball. It scales for distance, like all of the other projectiles...but the angle is hard to get past without blocking or character-specific counters...and so you can block it all you want, but that's the thing...it scales in damage for distance traveled, but the block damage, and the damage to the GC meter stay the same, and they can whittle you down, ST style. Also, DP/Hurricane Kick have no recovery time, teleport is better, and raging demon is actually a really, really good super. So he's pretty good based off of those things alone, and kills certain characters for free, since he doesn't have to let himself get hit if he doesn't want to...and if he's within that range, you're probably gonna get hurt as bad as he is.

your name, spelled backwards, appears to be "emoswag."

Apoc

05-09-2003, 03:29 AM

I think Rog is top tier. In Aism. He can hang with all of the top tier and slaughter most others. What other requirement does "top tier" have? If he's not top tier, he's upper middle at worst.

Just had to add that:P

Apoc.

gawsome

05-10-2003, 02:24 AM

TS, did you know your name backwards is ST? Most probably you did.

liquid-snake

05-10-2003, 03:28 AM

Where do you guys rank Rolento? I use him in X-ism and I think he is probably 2nd tier cos he struggles against V-ism a lot.

Psycho Power J

05-10-2003, 03:45 AM

Originally posted by Apoc
I think Rog is top tier. In Aism. He can hang with all of the top tier and slaughter most others. What other requirement does "top tier" have? If he's not top tier, he's upper middle at worst.

Just had to add that:P

Apoc. I dunno. His rushing punches just seem to be asking for a VC. I think he's middle tier. Top tier dominate over the rest in win rates.Originally posted by liquid-snake
Where do you guys rank Rolento? I use him in X-ism and I think he is probably 2nd tier cos he struggles against V-ism a lot. Rolento is second tier in A/V-ism. Use A-Rolento instead of X, because he always scouter jumps in X. His regular jumps has its uses too.

Muskau

05-20-2003, 02:05 AM

Revised Alpha 3 Tier:

The Ranks within the tiers are VERY tight.

1st Tier
-------------------
V-Gouki
A/V-Dhalsim
V-Sakura
V-Ryu
V-Zangief
-------------------
Some people say Ryu should be lower, but the results speak for themselves really, a V-Ryu master has a very good chance of winning against anyone, even V-Gouki. V-Zangief is lower because he has a rough time against the above, but beats all below him.

2nd Tier
-------------------
V-Charlie
V-Karin
V-Sodom
A-Guy
A-Gen
A/V-Rolento
V-Vega(Balrog)
V-Cody
-------------------
Basically these characters have the potential to be top tier, but their difficulty of use or small flaws hold them back.

3rd Tier
-------------------
X/A-Chun-Li
A-Balrog(M.Bison)
V-Sagat
X/A/V-Adon
V-Juni
V-Ken
A-Rose
V-Cammy
A-Bison(Vega)
A/V-Blanka
A/V-Juli
A/V-Birdie
V-R.Mika
V-Dan
A/V-E.Honda
--------------------
This tier is extremely tight, basically everyone has a chance against anyone here, but near the top their are characters that have some 2nd Tier potential.

Well seeya! :)

Ryu1999

05-20-2003, 10:01 AM

Psycho Power J

05-20-2003, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by Muskau
Revised Alpha 3 Tier:

The Ranks within the tiers are VERY tight.

1st Tier
-------------------
V-Gouki
V-Ryu
A/V-Dhalsim
V-Sakura
V-Zangief
-------------------
Some people say Ryu should be lower, but the results speak for themselves really, a V-Ryu master has a very good chance of winning against anyone, even V-Gouki. V-Zangief is lower because he has a rough time against the above, but beats all below him.

2nd Tier
-------------------
V-Karin
V-Charlie
A-Guy
A-Gen
V-Sodom
V-Cody
V-Vega(Balrog)
A/V-Rolento
-------------------
Basically these characters have the potential to be top tier, but their difficulty of use or small flaws hold them back.

3rd Tier
-------------------
X/A-Chun-Li
A-Balrog(M.Bison)
V-Sagat
X/A/V-Adon
V-Juni
V-Ken
A-Rose
V-Cammy
A-Bison(Vega)
A/V-Blanka
A/V-Birdie
V-R.Mika
A/V-E.Honda
V-Dan
A/V-Juli
--------------------
This tier is extremely tight, basically everyone has a chance against anyone here, but near the top their are characters that have some 2nd Tier potential.

Well this is my opinion of how the tiers pan out now, i dont really think their is a bottom tier, V-Dan, V-Honda and V-Mika can be quite deadly in a masters hands, simply due to the fact of people knowing little about those characters tactics, so choosing a lower tier character might give you an edge against a person who plays against nothing but top tier all day.

Well seeya! :) I think Ryu should belong in his own "Almost Top Tier." Compared to the other top tiers he doesn't stack up as well, but he's definitely better than anyone else. V-Charlie could maybe share his spot though.

I heard A-Balrog (boxer) is top tier material after Apoc used him quite effectively. He seems to be able to outpoke just about anyone.

A-Guy and A-Gen shouldn't be up there. Maybe A-Guy, but I don't think so. They should be in middle tier, maybe in the upper part.

V-Dan, V-Honda and V-Mika may be good with a master, but they still don't do as well as the others, so I think they're bottom tier. Ignorance of their gameplay shouldn't push them up at all since it'll be known shortly afterward once they're played against. Obscurity doesn't really determine how good a character is.

I think Mika could go in the middle tier. Not sure though.

Also, I cannot believe that Juli is anything but bottom tier. She just doesn't have much going for her, in any groove.

el_diablo

05-20-2003, 03:38 PM

well. i actually think that V-Nash is top. why? just look at the tops. why? he's one of the few that can avoid being raped by V-gouki, does really good against all the tops except one, and can pretty much kill anyone that is not top. he's only big problem would be sim.

last time i heard about tier on this game, it was like:
a-sim
v-gouki
v-sakura
v-nash
v-sodom(WTF???)
v-gief
v-ryu

in that order. i actually agree with it except for sodom, since v-nash got no problem with chars all that are under him. and his worst matchups are those above him.

but hey, that's my opinion.

Muskau

05-20-2003, 04:48 PM

What was the reason V-Nash was so high? Is it because of that Japanese VC with that recharges the VC meter??? And why V-Sodom in 1st tier? i thought he was just a one trick VC pony? Or has something else been found out about him?

Basically Juli is at the bottom because no-one uses her so ive never heard on how she is, shes prolly just below cammy though

SaBrE

05-20-2003, 06:22 PM

sodom is not a 1 trick pony. hes pretty solid character all around. and he rapes gief for free which is fucking great in my book :D

el_diablo

05-20-2003, 06:34 PM

about sodom, well, dun ask me....

about nash, well, you know you can't jump on him when his V bar is at 50% or more. now, nash can get about 30/40% back as long as your VC doesn't start with nash in the corner... and the guy is maybe the fastest meter builder in the game which mean: vc + 2-3 whiffed throws = 50%... can't jump again. yay. now add great pokes, lots of anti air(and good ones), really good sonic boom, good air priority(as if he needs it...), great zoning abilities, great rushdown, damaging vc, good crouch cancels combos(well, that's if you want to jump...). actually, i say v-nash is tops without the vc with crouch cancels. that vc just makes him even better.

Psycho Power J

05-20-2003, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by Muskau
Basically Juli is at the bottom because no-one uses her so ive never heard on how she is, shes prolly just below cammy though I used to use Juli. I also practiced with Cammy before settling with Juni. Sniper arrow is the only thing unique to her, and it replaces the Cannon Drill. It's not bad, but definitely not as good as the Cannon Drill since it's difficult to combo with, especially in VCs, unless you're some distance away. In everything else, there's nothing she can really do that Cammy or Juni can't do just as good or better. She has less number of specials, and doesn't even have the Hooligan Combo that the other two have. She's basically a much weaker version of Cammy.

Muskau

05-22-2003, 06:59 AM

Ok I messed around with the tiers a bit, the only real thing is whether V-Charlie is top tier, but I think I'll leave him where he is.

Yes I heard Apoc placed with an A-Balrog, but Apoc is like the only I guy I've heard of that uses A-Balrog, and he's practically the Balrog master anyway lol I think if you heard other people placing with him, then you'd see him shoot to 2nd tier maybe.

01-22-2005, 04:20 AM

(S )Dhalsim, Akuma
(A+)Sakura
(A )Sagat
(A-)Vega, Charlie, Zangief
(B+)Karin, Sodom
(B )Rolento, Ryu, Chun Li
(B-)Cody, Gen, Guy, Ken
(C+)Juni, Rose, Adon, Cammy, Bison, Balrog, Mika
(C )Blanka, Birdie, Dan, Honda
(D )Juli

Even this is seems a bit too harsh- It's entirely possible to say, beat Vega with Cody, or beat Sakura with Karin. And I haven't taken counter-characters into account too much (ie Gen holds an advantage over Zangief, Ken over Chun Li, etc).

Anyway:
I put Vega ahead of Charlie because he does a little better vs Sagat and Sakura, I think. Seems a little high. I would have put Dhalsim ahead of Akuma, because I used to think he did a lot better vs Sagat. I don't think he does TOO well anymore, but still just enough to justify a small (negligeable, even) lead over Akuma (also taken into consideration was Akuma's problem with Charlie). Dhalsim has to work a little harder vs Chun Li and Sak than Akuma does, however. Taking the ability to switch ISMs into account, Dhalsim is a stronger character overall, relative to the cast, IMO, but I would go as far as to say that Akuma beats him like 6-4 in their match. So I dunno. Switch at your discretion.

Sagat may drop down a spot or two as time goes by (a year ago, I would have had him in the "B-" group), but he's still pretty scary. Sorta like Vega, who I think scares people more than he really should (were I not taking his matches vs better charactes into account, he would have been ranked behind 'Gief, or at the top of the next line).

Who's better between Karin and Sodom is a toss-up, and both of them could easily go into the line below. They have good VCs and infinites, as opposed to, say, Ryu, who has a stronger moveset, but much weaker midscreens. Or you could just merge the two.

"C+" is hard to tier. Juni and Rose I'm pretty sure about, Adon a little less so, but the other 4 especially can go in any order. Bison stronger than Cammy, I think? Mika should be higher? Hard to say.

"C" hard also. Honda, I guess, isn't really that bad, but as I've yet to see a good one, he goes where he goes. All of these guys can be re-arranged.

Thoughts?

Iczer one

01-25-2005, 03:42 AM

Hmm, pretty interesting list you got there :] here's what i think (in order, characters best ism counts) ...

[Top] Akuma (V), Arc-Sim (AVX), Sak (V), DeeJay (VA)

[Near Top] Gief (VA), Ryu (VAX), Charlie (VA), Chun (VAX)

[Upper] FeiLong (AX), Sagat (V), Karin (VA), Vega (V), Sodom (V), Rolento (AV)

[Mid +] Ken (VA), Gen (AV), Cody (V), Juni (V), Guy (A), Home-Sim (AVX)

[Mid] Rose (AV), Adon (VXA), Cammy (VA), Mika (AV), Bison (A), Rog (A)

[Lower] Dan (V), Blanka (VA), Honda (AV), Hawk (VA)

[Low] Birdie (VA), Guile (VA), Juli (VA)

bowiegranap

01-25-2005, 06:00 AM

Dee Jay? Fei Long? THawk? You even differentiated "Home-Sim". On which platform? On what tournament proof? If you're gonna include console versions shin akuma would be nasty.

My point here is that console versions shouldn't count, since one can always argue that the console versions are so different from the arcade version to the point of warping tiers. For example, I've never been able to pull off a decent VC with Adon on the PS1.

Also, console characters put the discussion into "theory fighter", as there are few (if any) solid, objective proof that one chracter is better than another.

Muskau

01-25-2005, 08:53 AM

Iczer one

01-25-2005, 09:53 AM

I'm just wondering why Mika is that high (...) ???

... what ? :P (she's 6th on the list if you count from down to up , damnit !!)

Mika is not that bad, people just seem to dislike her in general. She can guardcrush pretty well and has some nice mixups, including totally 50:50 situations (thanks to her freestyle super) which mostly end in Mika hitting the other person ;] The thing that makes her hard to rank is that she's a high risk chara, similar to Makoto in 3rd, just without the lightspeed dash ^^

Soldier Zero

01-25-2005, 11:02 AM

Mika's pretty effective if you know how to play her.

01-25-2005, 03:56 PM

I dunno, Bison seems to have better priority than Honda, and I can see him having an easier time doing big damage, because of the super. I haven't seen someone play Honda since like 2000, so I'll put an asterisk by his name in my head.

Dan's normals aren't much worse than Juli's, and his VCs are better, and he has the pushblock and the backwards hurricane kick move to play with, though pushblock is sorta useless. Juli not really BAD, she just doesn't have anything, and she can't build meter. She's like Dan, -2. No Cannon Drill, about half of Cammy's normal moves, and no Hooligan Combination, doesn't have Juni's air Cannon Drill or teleport or 360, and she has 1 less super than either in A-ISM.

Blanka lower than Mika (though they're about the same) maily because of Mika's 720, though she has some other stuff going for her. Blanka's normals maybe slightly better, but Mika has a little more guard crush ability. Blanka has a god super, and his crouch cancel VCs are good, but Mika has a good VC too, and a much, much better crossup (the body splash), and anti-crossup (crouching strong). I dunno, like I said before, there's a lot of room for characters to be re-arranged.

Psycho Power J

01-27-2005, 10:31 AM

Dan's normals aren't much worse than Juli's, and his VCs are better, and he has the pushblock and the backwards hurricane kick move to play with, though pushblock is sorta useless. Juli not really BAD, she just doesn't have anything, and she can't build meter. She's like Dan, -2. No Cannon Drill, about half of Cammy's normal moves, and no Hooligan Combination, doesn't have Juni's air Cannon Drill or teleport or 360, and she has 1 less super than either in A-ISM.:rofl: In SFA3, that's the definition of bad. But, I guess, she's not Servbot without a meter bad.

I wouldn't call pushblock useless. It's not something that could protect you from a guard crush VC, but it's a decent way to give you breathing room if you're getting rushed down.

I'd put Juni above Cammy, by the way.

Drunken Master

01-27-2005, 01:24 PM

If you're gonna include console versions shin akuma would be nasty.

Do tell.. i'd rather have V-Akuma personally.

Ouroborus

02-02-2005, 12:20 AM

i think rolento should be ranked a bit lower and gen a bit higher.

rolento is not that bad as a character but he has some serious issues against characters that likes to keep jumping on him and he doesnt have too much to offer.

he has major trouble getting an opponent off of from him since he has no ground anti air. standing mp trades with everything in this game and standing hk is too slow. only anti airs he has is jumping lp and alpha counter.

while his alpha counter have good horizontal range, it goes right thru your opponent when you are point blank and sometimes, not all hits connect and gets blocked. definitely not good vs VCs.

his tripwire super is garbage. slow ass startup, no invincibility and gets beaten out by everything. not to mention you cant combo into it. so really, he cant make much good use from his bar except alpha counters.

his patriot circle also misses on a bunch of extremely low crouching opponents, which also hurts his game.

gen's normal moveset is just as good as rolentos, maybe a bit worse, but he has much better anti airs.

gen also has better specials and much better meter usage. his alpha counter in KKK mode is also better than rolentos. great horizontal and it doesnt trade nearly as much as rolentos.

Buktooth

02-02-2005, 10:26 AM

At the time of the Japanese A3 nationals last year, Bas said the tiers went something like:

God Tier:
V-Akuma
V-Sakura

...

then everybody else after that. Apparently stuff was found and match-ups were learned to the point where those two characters have no bad match-ups at all except to each other. Even dhalsim couldnt hang with them anymore.

Yumi Saotome

02-03-2005, 10:49 PM

What ever happened to the V-Sagat craze? I heard he became like a really good character, but I don't know why, and I still don't see it.

PMTONEY9

02-04-2005, 09:32 PM

ANy body know where to get some street fighter character sprites

bowiegranap

02-05-2005, 06:15 AM

Wrong forum, wrong thread. Go to image mishmash.

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=13

Or hit the various mugen sites.

Renegade

07-01-2005, 02:52 PM

Anyone ever actually PLAY E.Honda in this game? I'd actually love to pick him up. Suits my turtle style.

But I'm sure simple fireball/ DP traps hurt him in this game.

LiSyaoran3063

07-05-2005, 10:12 AM

Why doesn't anyone put Fei-Long, Dee Jay, or T.Hawk in their tier list??

Ryu1999

07-05-2005, 11:03 AM

Why doesn't anyone put Fei-Long, Dee Jay, or T.Hawk in their tier list??

All tier lists are based on arcade. Otherwise, it'd all be messed up since V-stuff isn't as dominant and Dhalshim/Guy would change rankings

js2756

07-05-2005, 02:03 PM

Anyone ever actually PLAY E.Honda in this game? I'd actually love to pick him up. Suits my turtle style.

But I'm sure simple fireball/ DP traps hurt him in this game.

I think he also suffers from the fact that his hitbox is pretty huge, making him incredibly vulnerable to cross-ups.

Super Homer

07-05-2005, 11:00 PM

Quick question, what are GBA Alpha 3 tiers?

Terry_nb

07-06-2005, 01:51 AM

All tier lists are based on arcade. Otherwise, it'd all be messed up since V-stuff isn't as dominant and Dhalshim/Guy would change rankings

Not only these two, Dee Jay is a little monster in the home version. I think he is really good, especially in V and with that, all the ranking, who is in Top Tier etc., would be different again. The point is, it's even harder then to tell the true Tiers. -_-

LiSyaoran3063

07-06-2005, 05:02 AM

well, I never played SFZ3 on cabinet[sp], so i guess Dee Jay and Fei Long aren't in the cade version?

Katsurugi

07-06-2005, 02:48 PM

well, I never played SFZ3 on cabinet[sp], so i guess Dee Jay and Fei Long aren't in the cade version?

Nope. Neither is T.Hawk. Kind of makes me want to break out my SNES and Super Street Fighter 2...

LiSyaoran3063

07-07-2005, 06:31 AM

Nope. Neither is T.Hawk. Kind of makes me want to break out my SNES and Super Street Fighter 2...
Damn it, and Im a Dee Jay player...

Drunken Master

07-07-2005, 09:03 AM

I hear that in SFZ3Upper (arcade version based off the home versions) you could play as new challengers (DJ and the gang)..

But I think I remember that they were all jacked up. For example: Instead of have the fatest projectile recovery in the game, DJ has the LONGEST!

Or something like that.. can anyone confirm?

In any case, even if Upper was the standard by which everyone went by, you STILL wouldn't have a proper console version to practice on. :/ It doesn't even have crouch cancels..

LiSyaoran3063

07-07-2005, 09:51 AM

It doesn't even have crouch cancels..

Thats a good thing

Muskau

07-07-2005, 10:24 AM

There are old threads about upper, just search for them.

coreografo

09-07-2006, 06:55 AM

char tier from alpha3 upper????

RobintheMutant

09-07-2006, 01:51 PM

S rank :
V-Shin gouki

A++ rank :
V-Gouki
V-Deejay (most boring character in the game )

A rank :
V-Sakura
V-Ryu
V-Gief

Then you don't need any other character tier ,since it really depends on the skill you got ( Kiyo playing Guy makes me think guy is S rank :looney:

Lv.32 Z-Ism Rose

09-08-2006, 05:51 AM

S rank :
V-Shin gouki

Then you don't need any other character tier ,since it really depends on the skill you got ( Kiyo playing Guy makes me think guy is S rank :looney:

V Shin Gouki is seriously worse than regualr V Gouki. Shin's moves have very little or no recovery time, so VC's dont work near anywhere a well as they would. SRK recovery time is practically non existent so the opponent would be able to flip right after you landed, and the fireball also has near zero recovery time on it as well. A-Ism Shin gouki is a different thing, though; double air fireball->st roundhouse->Shun goku satsu is just cool, nd it IS an actual combo (18 hits).

Of course, this is shin Gouki we are talking about, so it really doesnt matter....

RobintheMutant

09-08-2006, 03:55 PM

V Shin Gouki is seriously worse than regualr V Gouki. Shin's moves have very little or no recovery time, so VC's dont work near anywhere a well as they would. SRK recovery time is practically non existent so the opponent would be able to flip right after you landed, and the fireball also has near zero recovery time on it as well. A-Ism Shin gouki is a different thing, though; double air fireball->st roundhouse->Shun goku satsu is just cool, nd it IS an actual combo (18 hits).

Of course, this is shin Gouki we are talking about, so it really doesnt matter....

Hmm... still very debatable in order to know which version are the best (i really think his V are still the same ? ) , the double gadou in air is really retarded .. and should be banned even for casual matches .
Also , I am still thinking about Shin Bison : I think he is also S rank , but excepted a monstruous Super Psycho crusher (especially Lv3) and a good j.HP and HP , is he really strong ?
I think he is also S tier just second to Shin gouki , but I may be wrong ??

Could good players tell me about X Shin Bison's strenght ? what would be a good grade to him ? thanks in advance !!

Iczer one

09-09-2006, 07:06 AM

A++ rank :
V-Gouki
V-Deejay
They raped his projectile in Upper, right ? That was a huge part of his game in the PSX/DC version, where he truly was top tier material. But without it ...

RobintheMutant

09-09-2006, 11:12 AM

They raped his projectile in Upper, right ? That was a huge part of his game in the PSX/DC version, where he truly was top tier material. But without it ...

Sorry , but I meant Dreamcast mode .
Upper is PSP mode ???Isn't it the dc also ?
I am wrong then , bah I don't know to which version upper refers to .
So many port of alpha lol ^^

Lil' Josh

09-09-2006, 03:29 PM

w/ about ingrid?

unledded

09-14-2006, 02:41 AM

Can I have some more in depth info on the tier ranking of Gen?

bloodriot

09-25-2006, 06:51 AM

Stupid scrub question If I don't use v-ism who is the best person to beat a

z-ism chun li using only fierce punch to juggle..and maybe fierce kick and few of her other ho moves.. man she's fast....

my friend bet me money I couldn't beat him without using a v-ism chara.. otherwise I would just gouki him.. I can beat him with zism sakura but it's hard work

please answer my scrub question of the week?

Hentai

09-25-2006, 07:09 AM

bloodriot

09-25-2006, 07:37 AM

thanks hen but, ahw crap I'm pretty tired I got the i-sims mixed up

I can use x-ism and z-ism but not v-ism gouki... :(

x-rol didn't work he dizzyed me..... and I can't beat him in the air..... he either uses med kick or fierce punch to juggle.... walks right under you and juggles with fierce punch or breaks your guard

I use rolls and slide a lot and try and build a rythm with his stick moves but a walking toward standing fierce breaks my game.

tolkien

09-25-2006, 10:04 PM

well, I never played SFZ3 on cabinet[sp], so i guess Dee Jay and Fei Long aren't in the cade version?

There's 2 arcade versions

The CPS2 version which is just vanilla A3 and doesnt include any of the new challengers

And the Naomi version which has Hawk,Fei,Deejay,Guile etc and all the gameplay adjustments like removed crouch cancels and nerfed vc activation invincibility, this is the one noone likes

Ouroborus

09-25-2006, 11:20 PM

Kyokuji

09-25-2006, 11:33 PM

Shotos work well against jumping MK BS. A-Gief is one of the few characters with a better air game than Chun', and there's always A/X-Sim' as well. If none of those work, A-Vega is really easy to be random with.

Litany

09-26-2006, 08:09 AM

Chun-Li has to work WAY TOO hard in a really good a/x/v zangief match. The damage input he gets on her when he closes in is just extreme compared to how little she gets to chip away from a safe distance.

..yeah....and if you're REALLY good with Ryu and the whole zoning game with Chun.........she'll have a bitchy time with him too.

bloodriot

09-26-2006, 08:19 AM

thanks k and o

hmmmn I would say that his zoning is almost perfect.... and he his main objective is to dizzy.....with firece..... with some excellent defence and turtling

sometimes he just waits for me to jump in so he can juggle me with standing fierce p.... I could kick myself sometimes.... I just think he can't do it everytime and he does....

zang was like a huge unmissble target for him and slow... I never got more that half off, do I have to be grappling a lot I closelned a bit and did standing fierce p and jumping fierce p.. chuns speed is hectic.... I'm sure scrub wise she is top tier....

I've never used a a-vega worth a shot

B&B

11-06-2006, 04:56 PM

can anyone tell me the official tier list for the game :)

EveryFlowerFlow

11-06-2006, 06:49 PM

read the 1st page?

kofkofkof

11-06-2006, 10:05 PM

my opinion is:
V sakula is suitable for beginner, you will earn your confidence soon by using her.

Kyokuji

11-06-2006, 10:26 PM

EDIT: See Xenozip's post instead.

The thing is, if a character is good on V, it gives them a much better chance against someone else using it, even if they're higher on the list. Counter activate is a godly thing to have.

Doesn't mean the higher tiered characters can't have bad match-ups with lower tier ones either. Most of Cody's bad match-ups for example, are in the mid-tier because of his tiny guard meter. Meanwhile he has an easier time against Charlie than most.

B&B

11-07-2006, 01:57 PM

alright, thanks for the list.

Slide

11-08-2006, 04:36 AM

Kyokuji, i thought that Sodom and Sagat should be in the top tier. Charlie moves under Ryu too.

Kyokuji

11-08-2006, 04:44 AM

Yeah, you could probably move a couple people around. I just wanted to post a more up to date list.

Xenozip.

11-08-2006, 06:01 AM

Kyokuji, i thought that Sodom and Sagat should be in the top tier. Charlie moves under Ryu too. Actually, the top 4 are pretty much set in stone. Sagat and Sodom are not on the same level as the top 4 (though I suppose Sagat is really close).

You can find a fairly accurate list posted by Middlekick here (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3240342#post3240342). I posted a list (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3239526#post3239526) in that thread, too.

Kyokuji

11-08-2006, 02:02 PM

Wow, V-Chun' really moved up 'eh?
Can't say I'm surprised.

What dropped Ryu so low? Is it the fact that you can basically just AC his only good VC?
Dictator seems to have moved up as well.

I'd agree more with MiddleKick's lower tiers though.
Birdie's not 'that' bad.

Terry_nb

11-10-2006, 09:26 AM

I wouldn't put Ryu that low ...

At the end of middlekicks A-Rank would be fair. He can be played offensive and defensive, got good BnB combos, solid pokes, a great fireball, an aa VC to his Hadoraves (it is not too great but he has at least one, which comes quite often into use for some top players, I often saw also Daigo doing it in vids) and has a dp plus some quite good pokes. I don't see him below Rolento or Cody. Alone for Ryu's solid specials and footsie game he has nearly no match up as impossible to win. He even is ok against V-Akuma and Sim. ACing his Rave is also not that easy on block when you remember Ryu's overhead and PP throw ...

But well it is only my opinion.:sweat: