How to play Dudley offensively

[GodSwordzman]

What are the best ways to Mix-up Dudley's offense during rushdown?

I am pretty good... but I want to try something new!!!


Peace!!!

[Double Reppuken]

Originally posted by GodSwordzman
What are the best ways to Mix-up Dudley's offense during rushdown?

I am pretty good... but I want to try something new!!!

i hope people won't mind that i use up a lot of space...it's like i'm writing theses. Anyway, I've come across only a handful of other dudley players, but there are a couple of things that I know that work well for all. I will list them, and my ideas on how/why they work. If there are any errors, please let me know, so i can edit this thing and make it that much better. Here goes.

Dudley's aggression game require a great deal of knowledge on the timing of each special, normal, and super art. during aggressive play, there are a couple of integral normals that you'll be using greatly, they are (in no particular order)


c. strong
t + fierce
s.roundhouse
c.jab
c.short
c.roundhouse


crouching stong
well, the use of this is basically to link into super. If you're being aggressive, a key element is to do damage, rather than doing anything fancy. You want to win, not make an exhibition video. This is by far his best link into either SA1 or SA3, considering that a) you won't get that "spit out" effect (and thus, major damage reduction will be avoided), there's very little room for error, if c. strong is parried, the super may trade with impending retaliations, and if the c.strong is blocked, you're not left open for attack the same way a whiffed fierce/mgb will.

Everything else
T+fierce is good for linking into super. window of opportunity is greater than strong, and damage is hefty. However, there is a nasty pushing effect that, if you hit from too far away, you'll completely miss the super.
s.roundhouse can be followed up with jet uppercut and followed by sa1/sa3 and will do major damage. Also builds stun meter pretty fast. s.roundhouse can also beat out certain things, if not trade.
c.jab and c.short are basically meant to outprioritize slower attacks, and the benefit of using either one is that they can be linked into super.

Tactics wise, you'll want to be doing a great deal of high-low playing. one neat trick for instance is c.short, c.short, t+roundhouse, t+fierce. If the opponent blocks low for the two shorts, the roundhouse will hit as an overhead; if the overhead is blocked, you can follow up with t+fierce in order to stay close. Watch out for parries, obviously, but experiment with other moves that push dudley forward, such as t+forward. Good stuff.

also, the first part of the dash uppercut is nice. if you're really up close to opponent, try, s.roundhouse, qcf + roundhouse, throw
don't do the second part of the dash uppercut, and use that small window you have to throw. Be sure to watch out for any potential retaliation, dudley WILL be vulnerable during the entire move.

the hardest part for dudley is to get in against certain things. Namely, Chun-li's back+fierce, Ken's s.strong, and, akuma's air fireball. in the case of chun-li's back+fierce (well, her ANYTHING really) keep that jumping fierce handy, and t+fierce MIGHT work if you have the timing down between the fierces. against ken though, i suggest you practice jump in-parrying, and be ready for any potential shoryuken's/hadoukens/supers.

i'll post more later. i are teh hungry

[erco]

about c.strong.

been watching some jap vids and noticed they cancel it into short ducking like 90% of the time. That way, if it connects, you have time to react and cancel the ducking into super. This is effective because the ducking cancels the recovery on the c.strong, giving you the entire duration of the ducking to cancel into a super, AND it will do more damage on average than a straight link since it pulls you closer to your opponent.

Oh yeah, if they decide to block, you can always throw :)

s.short is a great tick into throw. it causes really short block stun, and recovers faster than it looks like it should.

also, imo, towards + forward is a great poke, it cancels, comes out quick, and pulls you forward.

If you can parry well (I can't :bluu: ) then jump in at will. Dudley's jump-ins are incredibly hard to parry since you can alter the timing on the fierce/roundhouse and still be able to combo afterwards. If you're in close, spam the towards roundhouse until you train them to only block you high, that way, you setup the 'surprise' low roundhouse into 50% combo of choice.

I can't parry well and can't cancel quick normals into hcf motions, so I don't play dudley :( Were I able to do those things, my dudley would be a lot better.

[AneurysmX]

Dudley is probably the best character to use if u can parry well, all his combos take off enough damage and stun, even without super.
To play Dudley offensively there are so many ways, as mentioned above, his air attacks are very hard to parry, so he can always get inside most characters, mix up ducking with swingblows and throws. I use a lot of standing roundhouse since its got pretty good priority, and once it hits u can always do ducking super. Very good damage.
Once u get the opponent into the corners thats where u want to keep them. Other than the low rh juggles abuse his links and supercancels, t.rh overhead link super, low short x2 --> super, swingblow into super, UOH link super.....etc.

[IronFist]

Don't rely too much on the EX MGB and its subsequent juggles. Believe me, it gets real predictable and you'll get owned sooner or later :(

[kal el]

good stuff...

Standing HK -> Duck -> throw used to be guaranteed where i play most of the time, but now, people expect it so they jab us Dudley players out of it. The way i vary it now is to use a Duck that stops just short of throw range, then i throw out a crouching MP or do 2 low LKs -> UOH -> super.

One thing that's been working for me is to do 2 low LKs (if they connect, well you obviously do a super), but if it's blocked, i hesitate for a bit (they usually expect an overhead at this point) so i just walk forward a bit and do 2 more low LKs. Works like a charm :D.

Something i saw on the 1st Cooperation Cup vids:

LK, MK chain is blocked, Dudley waits a split second, does toward + MK -> Rocket Uppercut

IMO, i think that's one very useful tool since both the LK, MK chain and toward + MK will link into super.

[Double Reppuken]

Originally posted by kal el
good stuff...

Standing HK -> Duck -> throw used to be guaranteed where i play most of the time, but now, people expect it so they jab us Dudley players out of it. The way i vary it now is to use a Duck that stops just short of throw range, then i throw out a crouching MP or do 2 low LKs -> UOH -> super.
hmm. major issue is the 2 c.shorts thing. I know too many players that look for the 2 c.shorts, then t+roundhouse already, so if they see the 2 c.shorts, an overhead will be expected, and could be met with super, or s.fierce against chun users.



One thing that's been working for me is to do 2 low LKs (if they connect, well you obviously do a super), but if it's blocked, i hesitate for a bit (they usually expect an overhead at this point) so i just walk forward a bit and do 2 more low LKs. Works like a charm :D.
Hmm. throw may work better. you might whiff (unless you've gotten the motion down perfectly) super and perform jet uppercut, or worse mgb.



Something i saw on the 1st Cooperation Cup vids:

LK, MK chain is blocked, Dudley waits a split second, does toward + MK -> Rocket Uppercut

IMO, i think that's one very useful tool since both the LK, MK chain and toward + MK will link into super.

this is also a very suicidal idea, at least imo. Basically, that "split second" hesitation allows a quick opening for a ken/chun/yun user that, though on the surface seems like enough time, can be beaten out or predicted. I guess the reason i'm paranoid with using such tactics is only because they all fall in the category of something i affectionately call 'stupid dudley tricks.' Basically, all of them depend on mind games, rather than actually guaranteeing a move to beat out another, creating openings, etc. I suppose for quick wins it may work, but you said so yourself that when you abuse certain tricks, they no longer work. That's why tricks should be used in moderation.

good stuff, still.

[kal el]

Double Reppuken:

Yeah, sometimes it is "suicidal" to try stuff like that, but mind you, they are merely alternatives to what most people are used to when playing against a Dudley player. Where i play, a lot of players expect throw attempts whenever there are blocked crouching LKs or LPs, so i figured, if you vary the throw with some more low pokes, it'll make for a more interesting match :D. i just think that 3rdStrike thrives on mindgames. The more variety you have with mixups etc., the harder it is to beat you, IMO.

[kal el]

ok...

Since we're talking about making Dudley *offensive*, how about we make it a bit more specific?

i've always had trouble dealing with Elena players using Dudley. i find it really hard to rush her due to her low pokes and her good air-to-air game. Any suggestions as to how Dudley can neutralize Elena? Or is it like Dudley vs. Chun-Li, a lost cause?

[Double Reppuken]

Originally posted by kal el
ok...

Since we're talking about making Dudley *offensive*, how about we make it a bit more specific?

i've always had trouble dealing with Elena players using Dudley. i find it really hard to rush her due to her low pokes and her good air-to-air game. Any suggestions as to how Dudley can neutralize Elena? Or is it like Dudley vs. Chun-Li, a lost cause?

i've only played a handful of elena users. Summary: she outprioritizes the shit out of Dudley. I find that you really can't be too aggressive against elena users unless they do something stupid like jumping in too much. If it's a ground based elena, pray that your c.strongs and c.shorts connect, 'cause you'll be using those to link into super. The most beneficial tactic however is parrying, obviously, but, if you're getting locked down, it's the only way you're going to be able to a)do big damage, or b) get the hell out of the corner. Cross counters have a nasty tendency to miss on some of her jump in kicks, so stick to either c.fierce, s.fierce, or s.roundhouse: they build meter, and you can usually follow up with something afer (e.g., s.roundhouse, if parried, can be followed up with jab mgb, or super).

by the way, your av is awesome

[IronFist]

How do you play against turtlers or characters that rely on range? For example, Remy, Oro, Akuma air hadou/hurricane kickx97237598, etc?

I know, rush that shit down, it's totally over once I get in close, but that's the really hard part.

[kal el]

Double Reppuken:

Thanks for the info! If anything, the characters i can't stand playing against when using Dudley are Chun-Li, Elena, Oro, and Remy. i guess you can say that those are characters whose pokes have high priority. Sometimes, i forget to PRB (parry reaction buffering) into specials/supers when a bufferable normal is parried, so i eat a nasty combo after. Yeah, i think it's really useful to buffer into a multi-hitting attack when an airborne opponent parries your anti-air.

Oh, and about my avatar, heh, SlimX is responsible for it :D. i originally wanted Corkscrew Blow because the start-up looks cooler, but SlimX told me that i'd be the laughing stock of the entire SF community because Alex's Hyperbomb will grab Dudley out of Corkscrew Blow. So he tested Rocket Uppercut for me, and surprise, surprise, it won out over Hyperbomb.

IronFist:

Against Oro, i use lots of toward + strong punches and toward + fierce punches to get in close and either hit the geriatric bastard or at least trade hits. Against Akuma, i suggest you use Dudley's Duck to go evade Hadoukens while advancing you forward. Actually, it's pretty useful against Oro too, because Oro players sometimes throw those annoying yellow projectiles. Against Remy, i just jump at him. Most Remy players aren't Ryo Chin
:lol:, so they wouldn't be doing LoVs into RRFs *regularly*. i find that *most* Remy users cannot resist using an RRF, EX RRF or crouching fierce punch as anti-air. So since that's 2 hits at the most as anti-air, he can watch his stun gauge go sky high :D. Unless the Remy players where you are can charge buffer/partition really well, i don't think you have much to worry about. But i guess the most important thing to practice against these kinds of players is your parrying.

[OmegaRed]

To get inside use the half circle forward roundhouse kick to get past hurricane kicks and projectile - I'm not sure if it gets passed rushes such as Elena's flying kick, Remy's flying kick, Q's rush attack, and Urien's rush attack. I haven't gotten past them successfully yet but it might just be my timing since you can get past the hurricane kicks I wouldn't see why it wouldn't work on those. Also taunt before doing the rush in to distract the opponent even for a second.

Once inside abuse the overheads into EX Cross Counters.... once you do a few overheads they'll stop ducking which means their attacks will be cross counterable.... abuse it. Another move I see overlooked way to much is qcb+p If you see someone doing anything funny do that move to them and if possible do the EX version. It does great damage and stun damage and its not as predictable as the MGB.

[erco]

Originally posted by OmegaRed
To get inside use the half circle forward roundhouse kick to get past hurricane kicks and projectile - I'm not sure if it gets passed rushes such as Elena's flying kick, Remy's flying kick, Q's rush attack, and Urien's rush attack. I haven't gotten past them successfully yet but it might just be my timing since you can get past the hurricane kicks I wouldn't see why it wouldn't work on those. Also taunt before doing the rush in to distract the opponent even for a second.

Once inside abuse the overheads into EX Cross Counters.... once you do a few overheads they'll stop ducking which means their attacks will be cross counterable.... abuse it. Another move I see overlooked way to much is qcb+p If you see someone doing anything funny do that move to them and if possible do the EX version. It does great damage and stun damage and its not as predictable as the MGB.

omg, NO NO NO

do not use EX Cross Counters in a ground poking game.

as dudley, the main thing you wanna abuse is his low jump and difficult to parry jump-ins. Ducking should only be used to maintain pressure, or to get under projectiles. Short and forward version are good as dash alternatives.

Short swing blow is great if you get them to think throw. I would generally use the short version, not the ex, because you can combo in a super for decent damage.

[KnowSkillz]

Originally posted by OmegaRed
To get inside use the half circle forward roundhouse kick to get past hurricane kicks and projectile - I'm not sure if it gets passed rushes such as Elena's flying kick, Remy's flying kick, Q's rush attack, and Urien's rush attack. I haven't gotten past them successfully yet but it might just be my timing since you can get past the hurricane kicks I wouldn't see why it wouldn't work on those. Also taunt before doing the rush in to distract the opponent even for a second.


if you can see the moves coming to do a ducking upper, the better option would be parrying the move then s.hk> big combo

[Apoc]

Originally posted by erco
about c.strong.

been watching some jap vids and noticed they cancel it into short ducking like 90% of the time. That way, if it connects, you have time to react and cancel the ducking into super. This is effective because the ducking cancels the recovery on the c.strong, giving you the entire duration of the ducking to cancel into a super, AND it will do more damage on average than a straight link since it pulls you closer to your opponent.

Oh yeah, if they decide to block, you can always throw :)

s.short is a great tick into throw. it causes really short block stun, and recovers faster than it looks like it should.

also, imo, towards + forward is a great poke, it cancels, comes out quick, and pulls you forward.

If you can parry well (I can't :bluu: ) then jump in at will. Dudley's jump-ins are incredibly hard to parry since you can alter the timing on the fierce/roundhouse and still be able to combo afterwards. If you're in close, spam the towards roundhouse until you train them to only block you high, that way, you setup the 'surprise' low roundhouse into 50% combo of choice.

I can't parry well and can't cancel quick normals into hcf motions, so I don't play dudley :( Were I able to do those things, my dudley would be a lot better.

Heh, Japanese get credit for everything. Too funny. Take a look back at the SF3 guide from gamefan. Ducking has been an integral part of Dudley's rushdown from day one. Not even new to 3s. That's standard Dudley basics. I was doing that the first day using him. Common sense. Put them in block stun and cancel into a cancellable special that advances. There's really nothing you can do if Dudley has a RU charged plus that's meter building sequence. You could do a book on this alone. Just making it clear that you don't need to be Japanese to break something so simple down, heheh.

Not to be a dick but, ppl are always on Japan's nutz so I thought that I'd clear that up. Americans were doing that 5 years ago.

Apoc.

[erco]

dude, don't hate :)

naw, I know it's old shit, but I've been playing SF3 series for like barely a year now, and only about 6 months seriously, and it's just something I've noticed watching Japanese dudley vids.

considering the fact that it's hard to get american 3S vids, let alone ones that don't involve Ken, Ryu, Akuma, Chun, I'll plead ignorance.

It still works really well, especially as a good way to give you more hit-recognition time.

[kal el]

yeah...

Standing HK -> Duck is more like a really, really excellent link--not just because of hit-recognition time, but due to the fact that you have plenty more options if the HK does not connect. i'll venture enough to say that it's almost like a pseudo-tick throw for Dudley. It makes Dudley even more difficult to deal with (since he has just about as many LINKables as Chun-Li, Ken, and Makoto).

In case that wasn't too comprehensible, it's like Makoto's standing MP and low MK. They're both really good LINKables, but at the same time, in case the opponent was blocking, you can use the block stun to tick into Karakusa.

[IronFist]

OK

HELP

i always hear people say that dudley's jump ins are hard to parry and whatnot. EVERYBODY PARRIES ME WHEN I JUMP IN :mad: :fury: :wasted: :depress: :(

But the thing is, I was watching another Dudley that was jumping pretty much the same exact way I was (at least to what i saw) against the same players and got in, comboed and raped :(

I also hear about varying timing and whatnot. I don't get it :(

[kal el]

:D...

i know what you mean, IronFist.

What i've done, in terms of what everyone likes to call "varying," is to hit at different opponent "heights." By this i mean that sometimes, i'll hit HP right at chest level, making it a really, really deep hit. Other times, i'll hit them right at the face, or at the top of their heads. To further this "variation," i use HK sometimes. It comes out slightly different (i'm not sure whether it's faster or slower, but i know it's different :lol:) than the HP.

Hope that helps :confused:.

[erco]

It's really a combination of factors that makes dudley's jump ins hard to parry.

1. he has a really low jump. I may be wrong, but I think his is the lowest in the game.

2. 2 distinctly different (parry timing was), yet still viable jump in attacks in j.hk and j.hp. You cannot parry one the same as the other.

3. you can start the jump in attack at varying heights in his jump and still cause enough hit stun to land a ground followup combo afterwards.

Number 3 is the biggie in that you can hit j.hk real early, smack the top of your opponent's head, and still have enough time to land s.hk afterwards.

Personally, once you get used to it, j.hk is the superior jump in. it's really damn hard to parry because of how deceptively it comes out.

[kal el]

...

Yups, Dudley has the lowest jump in the game. The proof of that can be found in the 1st bonus stage (SUV). All the other characters can jump onto the hood of the car NORMALLY. Dudley has to SUPER-JUMP in order to get onto the hood :lol:.

Regarding jumping in with HK, yeah, it seems like it is the weapon of choice in higher levels of play. Initially, i was wondering as to why the Japanese were opting to use HK instead of HP since HP has a slightly higher stun value. Correct me if i'm wrong, but it seems like HP stuns more (not hit stun, just plain stun) than HK.

[AneurysmX]

Originally posted by kal el
...

Yups, Dudley has the lowest jump in the game. The proof of that can be found in the 1st bonus stage (SUV). All the other characters can jump onto the hood of the car NORMALLY. Dudley has to SUPER-JUMP in order to get onto the hood :lol:.

Regarding jumping in with HK, yeah, it seems like it is the weapon of choice in higher levels of play. Initially, i was wondering as to why the Japanese were opting to use HK instead of HP since HP has a slightly higher stun value. Correct me if i'm wrong, but it seems like HP stuns more (not hit stun, just plain stun) than HK.

HP takes of more than HK too
its the way HK comes out, very deceptive, makes it hard to parry. If u land a deep one, combo, if u land a high one u can play mind games if u think that next hit wont connect, or if u can react fast enough, after landing a really high HK (like ur elbow just tapped the guy on the top of the head) u can just super right away when u land.

[GodSwordzman]

Dudley's Jumping HK is his deepest hit from the air. It will hit Urien in his foot before you land, and you can tag Chun-li with it if she tries to duck it( Her crouching animation is low enough to actually Duck certain jump attacks)Jumping High HKs and Jumping Deep HPs (viceversa) might be the trick.

And once every blue moon the jumping HK will CROSS UP!!! Do you know how much of a beast he could become if someone mastered that and landed it consistently?

I only do it accidentally, I never land it in training mode. And the funny part about it is the fact that every time I land it, I could have done standing HKxxEX MGB and gotten them into the corner for juggle-a legit Dudley cross-up!!! It's just that it happens when I least expect it. I don't know how many characters can be caught by it , but I have seen it work on Alex, Chun-li, and Necro. Can someone please post what they know about this? It could make his wake-up/jump-in game insane.

Peace!!!

[erco]

one bad thing about j.hk is that it extends your body backwards really far, so if you jump over a slow moving projectile (remy's high LoV, Urien Metallic Sphere, etc.) try not to use the hk cuz it'll look like you're completely clear, but his legs will stick out and get tagged.

[Double Reppuken]

correct me if i'm wrong, but, i think another good jump in that dudley has is the j.forward; if it gets parried (ground or otherwise), depending on the height of the time of the parry, you can follow it up immediately with a j.fierce, and have enough time to follow THAT up with s.rh, ex mgb

oh yeah, something interesting about rocket uppercut, I used to look for this opening about a thousand times each round, but since i switched to cs blow, i don't see it anymore, anyway...
if they jump in, at some point in the arc of their jump, there's a frame that makes it hard to parry the super. it's about the 2/3rds of the jump point, but it's really easy to see, just not point out by words. The point is, at this frame, the hit box nearly friggin' doubles, so you can hit empty jumps (or even jump in attacks) from a pretty safe distance (read: pretty damned far). I used to think i was doing a kara Jet Uppercut ^__^ 'cause it never looked like it would hit, yet there it is. this isn't true with CS blow for some reason, the same opening is almost the easiest time to parry that super.

[GodSwordzman]

Originally posted by Double Reppuken
correct me if i'm wrong, but, i think another good jump in that dudley has is the j.forward; if it gets parried (ground or otherwise), depending on the height of the time of the parry, you can follow it up immediately with a j.fierce, and have enough time to follow THAT up with s.rh, ex mgb


Are you saying that if you jump in with a j.foward you can CHAIN into a j.fierce while you are still in the air, or is this something else?


Peace!!

[kal el]

hmmmm...

i think what Double Reppuken means is that if your jumping MK is parried at a certain height or whatever, Dudley can jump again and possibly land a HP then string it into a combo. However, if they parry and go into a fast special or super, chances are, Dudley's screwed anyways.

[GodSwordzman]

Originally posted by kal el
hmmmm...

i think what Double Reppuken means is that if your jumping MK is parried at a certain height or whatever, Dudley can jump again and possibly land a HP then string it into a combo. However, if they parry and go into a fast special or super, chances are, Dudley's screwed anyways.

Have you ever done that cross up j.HK before? I can't practice it right now because I don't have my dreamcast. It is legit; it is just hard to land. Practice it.


OUT!!!!

[Double Reppuken]

Originally posted by kal el
hmmmm...

i think what Double Reppuken means is that if your jumping MK is parried at a certain height or whatever, Dudley can jump again and possibly land a HP then string it into a combo. However, if they parry and go into a fast special or super, chances are, Dudley's screwed anyways.

actually, what i meant was, in the SAME jump, you can attack again, since the j.fierce can be timed to come out fast enough. this is mostly for shotos + tall characters, so it probably won't work on yun/yang, and mako-hoe...i mean, makoto.

this would be the situation

dudley does j.forward, gets parried, j.fierce (dudley hasn't even hit the ground yet), land, s.rh xx ex mgb or some other finish.

[GodSwordzman]

Originally posted by Double Reppuken


actually, what i meant was, in the SAME jump, you can attack again, since the j.fierce can be timed to come out fast enough. this is mostly for shotos + tall characters, so it probably won't work on yun/yang, and mako-hoe...i mean, makoto.

this would be the situation

dudley does j.forward, gets parried, j.fierce (dudley hasn't even hit the ground yet), land, s.rh xx ex mgb or some other finish.


If that's the case can you do this:

j.MK>j.HP>land>s.HKxxHP Jet Uppercut?!?

[Double Reppuken]

Originally posted by GodSwordzman



If that's the case can you do this:

j.MK>j.HP>land>s.HKxxHP Jet Uppercut?!?

that's what i'm asking ('cept the j.mk has to be parried). I know you can't do that normally, but if you're in the air, and you get stuff parried, you can do another move afterward, unless you get hit by a counter attack.