K-Groove needs to dissapear

[moosehummel]

:lame: K GROOVE IS VERY LAME! i have finally realized how much advantage this groove gives u. It's the best beginner groove and the best "Kill" groove. You hit someone with a raged super and u win. A simple combo in C or N can be a one kill wonder in K. I can hit 4 damaging b and b combos with bison and one super from any character in the game and were even.(ugh!!!). With 35% more damage with every hit and super. Not to mention u take less damage i believe 1/8 less. During a course of a match a player can rage 3 times. It makes u sick that after they waste a level 3 and if u land yours they have another damaging k super. Basically u get hit by the super u shouldn't win the match. In no other groove can u block supers in the air well. P groove u can but rush supers u need to parry all hits and fireballs are harder. not to mention u get life back! Any player can press back on the stick. In the next snk chaos game i hope to god this is gone. thanx to all and if there any other opinions out there let me know:D

[Armageddon]

I don't feel it should be removed altogether,however,I do feel a few tweaks are necessary

[Kasbah]

Like any groove at level 3, you just need to be more careful when they're raged. If you're paying attention you can turn the advantage your way since K can't sit on it's meter. Watch for when they turn raged and react accordingly. If you knock them down with a combo or super that rages them, don't notice, try to get them on wakeup and eat a raged level 3 super, that's your fault :)

Bait them into using their super, less experienced players will probably try to rush into using their super even if they know it's better not to (like me). If that fails, just play keep away/turtle until rage is gone.

Sure someone could get ranged 2-3 times a match, but it's also possible to totally shut them down during that period so they don't get anything out of it, and their next character starts empty.

[Gwai Lo ½]

And if you are losing a round and they are almost raged just taunt them... they lose it next round...

I completely disaggree that k should be taken out.

[jreinert13]

It's not even the best groove in the game....why the hell would you want to take it out??

[Joe Fry]

Not being able to sit on bar makes K balanced. If you can't turtle for a few seconds then you deserve to be hit with a super. Also, JDing may be super easy, but its a lot harder to JD stuff like Tiger Upercuts and other multi hit moves. I mean, sure I can jump at blanka when he has a lvl 3, and no other groove can, but thats fair if the blanka player is too stupid to realize that I am baiting a lvl 3 (becuase a lot of people super on reaction to jump ins with Blanka), but unless the person is actualy practiced in JDing, Tiger Upercuts and stuff like that will own them anyway.

As for the damage boost, its perfectly fair that you get extra damage. It makes up for the fact that you cannot activly build bar. With a lot of grooves, you can sit and turtle and build bar by doing fast moves rappidly, just to get that little extra bar that you need to do a super. With K groove you have to either get hit, or you rely on your oponent "giving you" bar.

Just be thankfull that they didn't keep the best part of JDing from MotW in CvS2, otherwise JDing Direct Lightning would give you back 1/4 your life, wheeeee.

[clarkspark]

k groove are rush whores:p But seriously everybody here has the right idea. 1. You can't sit on the meter. Your opponent will feel the need to use that super on you especially if he is on the losing side. Just turtle back and when he gets close enough toss him, he'll feel more desperate and would probably end up making a mistake=punish with your own super:p 2. Becareful when k groove is used with Zangief, Raiden, S. Akuma, Akuma, Vega, Bison. These characters are especially powerful in this groove. Oh yeah, Blanka, fight against this guy as cheaply as possible. I use mostly n-groove but I use k-groove against my friends for fun and sometimes with yamazaki cause it fits his characters(Hes a mad man ya know...:p )

[pain]

Originally posted by moosehummel
:lame: K GROOVE IS VERY LAME! i have finally realized how much advantage this groove gives u. It's the best beginner groove and the best "Kill" groove. You hit someone with a raged super and u win. A simple combo in C or N can be a one kill wonder in K. I can hit 4 damaging b and b combos with bison and one super from any character in the game and were even.(ugh!!!). With 35% more damage with every hit and super. Not to mention u take less damage i believe 1/8 less. During a course of a match a player can rage 3 times. It makes u sick that after they waste a level 3 and if u land yours they have another damaging k super. Basically u get hit by the super u shouldn't win the match. In no other groove can u block supers in the air well. P groove u can but rush supers u need to parry all hits and fireballs are harder. not to mention u get life back! Any player can press back on the stick. In the next snk chaos game i hope to god this is gone. thanx to all and if there any other opinions out there let me know:D

OOOK then..... I could say the same about A-groove. A-groove=free damage on K groove.... And yeah, anyone can "press back on the stick".... just the same as anyone can press forward on the stick......

"In no other groove can u block supers in the air well."..... Gee I thought you were talking about C-groove here.... K-groove sucks for air defence since you still have to time it and you pop up.... JD tigeruppercut and you get another on right after.... C-groove you just hold back..... Every groove has their own advantages so why complain?...

[Cicada]

K groove is awesome.

that is all.

[jae hoon]

OH P groove is lame because you can parry I mean parry into super is stupid.

And A groove is lame because cc's are so cheap and they do to much damage

and S Groove is lame because it has unlimited level 1's and thats not fair

Oh and C Groove has air block, that just cant be allowed, we have to take out c groove to

N groove has a glowing bar that lets you do more damage, more damage shouldnt be allowed.

:lame:

[Joe Fry]

Originally posted by jae hoon
OH P groove is lame because you can parry I mean parry into super is stupid.

And A groove is lame because cc's are so cheap and they do to much damage

and S Groove is lame because it has unlimited level 1's and thats not fair

Oh and C Groove has air block, that just cant be allowed, we have to take out c groove to

N groove has a glowing bar that lets you do more damage, more damage shouldnt be allowed.

:lame:

Hell yeah, lets play street fighter 2 WOOT.

[HeaT]

c groove is the scrubbiest groove hands down..

im outi

Roberth

[Apoc]

Originally posted by moosehummel
:lame: K GROOVE IS VERY LAME! i have finally realized how much advantage this groove gives u. It's the best beginner groove and the best "Kill" groove. You hit someone with a raged super and u win. A simple combo in C or N can be a one kill wonder in K. I can hit 4 damaging b and b combos with bison and one super from any character in the game and were even.(ugh!!!). With 35% more damage with every hit and super. Not to mention u take less damage i believe 1/8 less. During a course of a match a player can rage 3 times. It makes u sick that after they waste a level 3 and if u land yours they have another damaging k super. Basically u get hit by the super u shouldn't win the match. In no other groove can u block supers in the air well. P groove u can but rush supers u need to parry all hits and fireballs are harder. not to mention u get life back! Any player can press back on the stick. In the next snk chaos game i hope to god this is gone. thanx to all and if there any other opinions out there let me know:D

Actually, I agree. Some of K-Grooves abilities are just lame and counter productive in a fighting game. How they let K turn out like that in the final is lame. I think capcom testers were just trying not to look like haters by letting such moronic ideas in. I'm not hating on K. I honestly feel that the system of K-groove is the stupidest new thing in a fighting game in a long time. If you want to at least do mediocre, K can give that to you for free. At high levels, K is like facing a higher ratio in every match. I'm not going to add anything because I've made comments about the lameness of K elsewhere. In this case, be thankful for A-groove. See A has bullshit that counters K's bullshit:rolleyes:

Apoc.

[jreinert13]

I can understand the constant damage increases being looked at as retarded and easy damage. But I think C,A,P and N(before RC) all have their own imbalances. K is definetly more scrub friendly...but that means nothing to me...I personally only care about high level play.
k is probably my favorite groove. Just Defend IMO is the best system I've seen in recent Sf's(thank you snk). Definely a better idea than Parrying.

[moosehummel]

ok jae hoon that was real childish. K- groove you need not do any combos to win. If u are playing someone in k all they have to do is hit u with one super and they win that match basically. yes all u have to do is turtle for the 15 seconds. 1. turtleing is for pansies. 2. i play people who jd everything and never attack in the air. 3 they rage 9 times in one ratio match 3 per round because they can't hit a super. now that is lame. in no other groove will u get neraly 9 level 3's with 35% more damage. the only disadvangtage is u can't sit on ur meter and i repeat the only disadvantage. besides u only need 15 seconds to break someones guard and super in k or just land a super period. Once again i prefer a combo good rather than a one hit wonder.

[Burghy]

Hi moosehummel, you're stupid. Never post here again! Thanks.

[Burghy]

I mean, seriously. What do a large majority of tourney-level players use? A groove. Which groove totally sucks against A groove? K groove.

K groove is fun at scrub level but it's difficult to play at high levels. I know this because I play a good scrub level K groove, but I die to all good A groove users.

(If you have to ask why K groove and to a lesser extent P groove suck against A groove, then.. yeah. Never post here again!)

[moosehummel]

they can hit a whole custom combo yes or break your guard whatever but all u need to do is hit them back when u rage once. They need to finish there custom combo. K groove is one hit wonder. i'm just expressing my opinion yall bash because ur a hater and love cheap grooves. i like k just needs to be fixed

[Burghy]

I'm a hater! :lol: of people who have no idea of what they're talking about, yeah.

[Gamma Ray]

I never had a major problem with K...The Lv 3 thing is all cute and stuff, but canceling supers from C-groove does great damage too. If you have a problem with it, don't just yell and complain, get yer ass in Training Mode and PRACTICE! There is a way to counter everything in this game.

[pain]

Originally posted by moosehummel
they can hit a whole custom combo yes or break your guard whatever but all u need to do is hit them back when u rage once. They need to finish there custom combo. K groove is one hit wonder. i'm just expressing my opinion yall bash because ur a hater and love cheap grooves. i like k just needs to be fixed

First of all, you're probably one of those people who think throwing is "cheap". I guess if you had your way everyone should just play S-groove right? What groove do you use? A k-groove lvl 3 super is pretty much the same as a C-groove or N-groove super. K-groove lvl3 takes off more, but you can't sit on it.... the opponent just runs away until you're done. If you're basing you theory on the super itself then it's pretty weak because I could easily call C-groove the "cheapest" since you build meter fast. I think you need to learn how to block if you get hit with lvl 3s EVERY time someone gets raged :lol:.

A-groove is definitely a stronger groove..... A-groove should be fixed since you get free damage on blocked combos unless you burn meter to alpha counter (in the case of A-Sak it's very hard to AC).

Anyway, at major tourneys there are only a handful of players that use K. Most of the top players use A or C..... Ino is probably the best K-groove player I've seen in action. K is scrub friendly, but what does that say about your game when you lose to scrubs?

[moosehummel]

Originally posted by pain


First of all, you're probably one of those people who think throwing is "cheap". I guess if you had your way everyone should just play S-groove right? What groove do you use? A k-groove lvl 3 super is pretty much the same as a C-groove or N-groove super. K-groove lvl3 takes off more, but you can't sit on it.... the opponent just runs away until you're done. If you're basing you theory on the super itself then it's pretty weak because I could easily call C-groove the "cheapest" since you build meter fast. I think you need to learn how to block if you get hit with lvl 3s EVERY time someone gets raged :lol:.

A-groove is definitely a stronger groove..... A-groove should be fixed since you get free damage on blocked combos unless you burn meter to alpha counter (in the case of A-Sak it's very hard to AC).

Anyway, at major tourneys there are only a handful of players that use K. Most of the top players use A or C..... Ino is probably the best K-groove player I've seen in action. K is scrub friendly, but what does that say about your game when you lose to scrubs?

I don't loose to K very often pain i'm actually a very good C-groove player. I disagree that u say C groove builds meter the fastest. I can never get 3 level 3's in C groove where as k can very often. I play good k groove players that jd alot! i think throws aren't cheap at all. cause most of my c cancels don't do the damage that a k super does...and all u have to do is hit someone with it.:lol: :lame:

[Gwai Lo ½]

Originally posted by moosehummel


I don't loose to K very often pain i'm actually a very good C-groove player. I disagree that u say C groove builds meter the fastest. I can never get 3 level 3's in C groove where as k can very often. I play good k groove players that jd alot! i think throws aren't cheap at all. cause most of my c cancels don't do the damage that a k super does...and all u have to do is hit someone with it.:lol: :lame:

All you have to do is hit someone with it? that's the weakest comment ever.... and C groove builds meter pretty damn fast. those cats is always sitting on a level one or two.

[Burghy]

That stupid K groove is so overpowered, I agree.
Like a few days ago some A-sakura did her guard crush custom on me, and I just defended all 80+ hits of it and got my whole life bar back!

Because, like, JD is so easy to do and stuff!

And then I easily landed my level 3 super, because it's so easy to land supers in this game! Because everyone jumps and runs and rolls towards you and becomes really really aggressive when you're raged, instead of becoming more defensive so you can't get in on them and land a super!

So, in conclusion, moosewhatever, I totally agree wiht you that K groove is so totally overpowered and it beats every other groove in the game totally!!

[pain]

Originally posted by Burghy
That stupid K groove is so overpowered, I agree.
Like a few days ago some A-sakura did her guard crush custom on me, and I just defended all 80+ hits of it and got my whole life bar back!

Because, like, JD is so easy to do and stuff!

And then I easily landed my level 3 super, because it's so easy to land supers in this game! Because everyone jumps and runs and rolls towards you and becomes really really aggressive when you're raged, instead of becoming more defensive so you can't get in on them and land a super!

So, in conclusion, moosewhatever, I totally agree wiht you that K groove is so totally overpowered and it beats every other groove in the game totally!!

Shit man, same thing happened with me:eek: I had a pixel of life left, but I got a full bar after I JD'd the whole thing...... Good thing it was just uppercuts; I mean, if they stuck in hurricane kicks to mess up the timing then I would have been screwed:lol: It's true, it's true.... K-groove is too cheap...;)

[shin ryu lv3]

aiyo,i dnt think that k groove is lame because trust me it has its limits.but the one guy who i think is truly damn near unstoppable is zangief in k groove.with his hi-priority grabs and that extra power up and hes just comin toward u man its hard to stop him

[B3nim4ru]

Why K? That isn't even the most powerful. A and sometimes C are better, IMO. And the only thing that sets it above N is that it has some form of defense on the jump-in... which is what kills N IMO.

Maybe if you play Live or something I can see why it'd be overpowered, then again you don't have to worry about RC so K is that much better.

[moosehummel]

Originally posted by Burghy
That stupid K groove is so overpowered, I agree.
Like a few days ago some A-sakura did her guard crush custom on me, and I just defended all 80+ hits of it and got my whole life bar back!

Because, like, JD is so easy to do and stuff!

And then I easily landed my level 3 super, because it's so easy to land supers in this game! Because everyone jumps and runs and rolls towards you and becomes really really aggressive when you're raged, instead of becoming more defensive so you can't get in on them and land a super!

So, in conclusion, moosewhatever, I totally agree wiht you that K groove is so totally overpowered and it beats every other groove in the game totally!!

thanx for agreeing with barfy or whatever ur name is and ur lame homestar...the internet must be ur life...anyway ur forgetting one thing:lol: ... the ohter day u accidently missed the jd and lost some life from the custom. but then u broke his guard with 3 fierces which takes no skill at all and hit him with a super and took more life from him lol ur a trip dude. U must be a real scrub. cuz i happened to played ino b4 and he lands supers unlike u.

[Mummy-B]

Oh well holy shit you played Ino.

You know what that means? You suck and you played the God of K groove. And now you have chip on your shoulder. Are you good enough to JD the first hit of A Sak's DP CC and DP her out of it? Are you good enough to JD three hits of the RCed Hurricane Kick and KKK hop out of the corner? The answer is no. So you lost horribly, got the shit kicked out of you, and then got spat on with dirt kicked in your face. Unfrotunately, it's not K Groove's fault.

Additionally, if you can do any C Groove super cancel combos that do more damage than one K Groove super, you suck with C Groove period.

bye now

[Burghy]

This is the part where you whine that no one 'gets' what you're saying, then leave SRK in a huff and never post here again. Please accomplish this step as soon as possible! Thank you.

[Gwai Lo ½]

Originally posted by moosehummel

U must be a real scrub. cuz i happened to played ino b4 and he lands supers unlike u.

:lol::lol:

[moosehummel]

um one mummy i defeated him....i'm just sayin i dominated that whole match and i got him by two k supers and still slmost lost just because of that. and Barfy if ur trying to humiliate me it's not working

[pain]

Originally posted by moosehummel
um one mummy i defeated him....i'm just sayin i dominated that whole match and i got him by two k supers and still slmost lost just because of that. and Barfy if ur trying to humiliate me it's not working

So you "dominated" INO and then he just landed a super to draw even? Aiit, anyone who can dominate INO shouldn't be complaining about K-groove because if you're that good with C you could EASILY pick up A-groove and get a free win.:p Even better, since K-groove is so good, why don't you use it? Guaranteed perfect on INO since you can land a big super every time after you jd everything and get full life back....

I still don't see what's so overpowered about K-groove.... Whenever I use A-groove against K they can't touch me. I don't even use Sak either; just Bison, Cammy, Chun or Geese ........

[jae hoon]

Originally posted by moosehummel
ok jae hoon that was real childish. K- groove you need not do any combos to win. If u are playing someone in k all they have to do is hit u with one super and they win that match basically. yes all u have to do is turtle for the 15 seconds. 1. turtleing is for pansies. 2. i play people who jd everything and never attack in the air. 3 they rage 9 times in one ratio match 3 per round because they can't hit a super. now that is lame. in no other groove will u get neraly 9 level 3's with 35% more damage. the only disadvangtage is u can't sit on ur meter and i repeat the only disadvantage. besides u only need 15 seconds to break someones guard and super in k or just land a super period. Once again i prefer a combo good rather than a one hit wonder.

So whos fault is that? P Groove people can do the same shit except they can retaliate alot better. If they keep jding your attacks you either
A. Not mixing up well
B. Repetitve
C. Dont know how to throw
There are ways around K Groove, have you ever thought about maybe blocking while there raged. You know it is possible to runaway while they have a rage bar, it doesnt really last that long. If you ask me your just hating on it because you cant beat it. K Groove is no where as bad as A Groove, and even A Groove has counters against it. If you keep getting hit with supers that arent comboed thats your on fault anyway.

[HeaT]

Originally posted by moosehummel


I don't loose to K very often pain i'm actually a very good C-groove player. I disagree that u say C groove builds meter the fastest. I can never get 3 level 3's in C groove where as k can very often. I play good k groove players that jd alot! i think throws aren't cheap at all. cause most of my c cancels don't do the damage that a k super does...and all u have to do is hit someone with it.:lol: :lame:

dude C groove is hella scrubbier than K groove...

i ve been in situations where a person had level 3 super in c groove before i was raged 1nce...

and if you think c groove cancels dont do as much as k groove supers your tripping...sagat lands lvl 2 super...thanks for playing you done...

im outi

Roberth

[HeaT]

Originally posted by Burghy
That stupid K groove is so overpowered, I agree.
Like a few days ago some A-sakura did her guard crush custom on me, and I just defended all 80+ hits of it and got my whole life bar back!


...LMFAO!!!...

im outi

Roberth

[Mummy-B]

Originally posted by moosehummel
um one mummy i defeated him....i'm just sayin i dominated that whole match and i got him by two k supers and still slmost lost just because of that. and Barfy if ur trying to humiliate me it's not working

If you can't do a C Groove super cancel that deals more damage than a Level 3, you did not dominate Ino. That is basic.

Second, you're bitching about K Groove Level 3's when you're in the most ludicrous groove for turtling. Level 3 supers have 23 invincibility frames and Rolls have 27. You can RC right through a super. You have one of the fastest building meters in the game.

Why are you bitching about K Groove? C Groove is two times as bad. At least you're forced to rush someone down to take full advantage of K Groove's bonuses, C Groove you can sit there and RC Pikachu all day and sit on a Level 3 like a *** until they move. How is K Groove WORSE?

[AKUMA2000]

moosehummel::lame: K GROOVE IS VERY LAME! i have finally realized how much advantage this groove gives u. It's the best beginner groove and the best "Kill" groove. You hit someone with a raged super and u win. A simple combo in C or N can be a one kill wonder in K. I can hit 4 damaging b and b combos with bison and one super from any character in the game and were even.(ugh!!!). With 35% more damage with every hit and super. Not to mention u take less damage i believe 1/8 less. During a course of a match a player can rage 3 times. It makes u sick that after they waste a level 3 and if u land yours they have another damaging k super. Basically u get hit by the super u shouldn't win the match. In no other groove can u block supers in the air well. P groove u can but rush supers u need to parry all hits and fireballs are harder. not to mention u get life back! Any player can press back on the stick. In the next snk chaos game i hope to god this is gone. thanx to all and if there any other opinions out there let me know:D



K groove lame ?? :rolleyes:


In the right hands of a skilled player K groove is very dangerous, you can turn a losing match into one hell of a comeback victory.


Sounds like you've been getting owned from a K groove player....:lol: :lol:

[OneDumbG00k]

I'm not trying to take this guy's beef with K groove seriously because most K groove players suck. But here's some advice. Fake the jumpkick and punish their attempt at a JD and change the speed of your fireballs. That's pretty much all I do when a K groove player comes and challenges me. Pretty easy, no?

If the cock knobbler JD's your anti-air, then fake the damn anti-air and throw him. I don't know anyone that can anticipate your style of fighting, when you poke and how you fake ppl out when you first play them. After losing so badly and JD'ing maybe 3 hits, they run away and look or some crub they can predict. Same with P groove, except for the damn special combo chains, ugh.. Iori pisses me off...

But fakin out usually works on P groovers too...

[artoflife]

how do u get sak's cc to 80+ hits?
hm...at most ive gotten 50 odd hits........
but anyway....jd-ing sak's cc off reaction in a real match??
u gotta be joking yea?
no offence but i seriously doubt it

[Gwai Lo ½]

Originally posted by artoflife
how do u get sak's cc to 80+ hits?
hm...at most ive gotten 50 odd hits........
but anyway....jd-ing sak's cc off reaction in a real match??
u gotta be joking yea?
no offence but i seriously doubt it

It's been done to me and I dont play against ino. I'ts pretty funny that this guy dominates ino though.

[Gwai Lo ½]

Originally posted by moosehummel
um one mummy i defeated him....i'm just sayin i dominated that whole match and i got him by two k supers and still slmost lost just because of that. and Barfy if ur trying to humiliate me it's not working

oh god i have to laugh at this one again :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Mummy-B]

Originally posted by artoflife
how do u get sak's cc to 80+ hits?
hm...at most ive gotten 50 odd hits........
but anyway....jd-ing sak's cc off reaction in a real match??
u gotta be joking yea?
no offence but i seriously doubt it

Ino did it to Tokido in Super Battle Opera semi-finals.

Tokido's A Sak activated, and the CC starts with stand fierce.
Ino's Sagat JDed the stand fierce after activation on reaction, then proceeded to DP Sak out of the CC.

Really quite amazing. Check out John Choi's SBO log if you want proof.

[Mummy-B]

Oh yeah get this, some idiot on AIM by the name of sshummel83 IMs me and is like "blah blah I know what you did to my sister, I know where your dorm room is." rofl

First of all the ass loving cock rider doesn't know I don't live in a dorm, second, I don't know anyone with a sister down here either. Coincidence that I get this IM after someone makes retarded ass posts on SRK by name of hummel? I think not.

You dominated Ino. The only fuckers dominating Ino was Tokido and Ohnuki. The only thing you dominate is your fucking AI in CvS2 while you fuck around with EO mode. Get your pussy ass shit out of here. You're nothing but a scrub that loses to everyone and thier mom so you create a post ranting and bitching on how the game should be modified so you don't have to go home from the arcade and slit your wrists after being raped several times over. Take it to gamefaqs, kthxbye

[Gwai Lo ½]

Originally posted by moosehummel
and Barfy if ur trying to humiliate me it's not working

yea, u got that one covered on your own :lol:

[moosehummel]

mummy my aim is Guillmoose if u had any sense at all u would stop lying to make me look bad just because i have a different opinion on k groove. No need to result to cursing and lying to make me look bad. I find your tactics very childish and amusing thanx again all for all the posts. and yall say mix it up. it's hard with a good player like ino who jds everything* and it really bugs me. lata all.

[artoflife]

i was referring to this
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Burghy
That stupid K groove is so overpowered, I agree.
Like a few days ago some A-sakura did her guard crush custom on me, and I just defended all 80+ hits of it and got my whole life bar back!

sure u can jd the first hit of the cc and retaliate
but jd-ing the enitre cc and getting half life back?

[artoflife]

oh anyway where can i find john choi's SBO log?

[Mummy-B]

Originally posted by artoflife
i was referring to this
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Burghy
That stupid K groove is so overpowered, I agree.
Like a few days ago some A-sakura did her guard crush custom on me, and I just defended all 80+ hits of it and got my whole life bar back!

sure u can jd the first hit of the cc and retaliate
but jd-ing the enitre cc and getting half life back?

He was exaggerating to illustrate how retarded it is to hate on K Groove for JDing shit and getting a super and pixels of life back.

[HeaT]

Originally posted by Mummy-B


Ino did it to Tokido in Super Battle Opera semi-finals.

Tokido's A Sak activated, and the CC starts with stand fierce.
Ino's Sagat JDed the stand fierce after activation on reaction, then proceeded to DP Sak out of the CC.

Really quite amazing. Check out John Choi's SBO log if you want proof.

thats sick...but thats not JDing saks whole custom...which is basically impossible...

but why would you start CC on k groove with fp when you should just start with DP...thats what always happens to me so it makes it harder to jd...

im outi

Roberth

[Mummy-B]

Stand fp is faster and takes advantage of invincibility frames on activation. Then from hitstun, you're gauranteed the rest of the combo.

Starting the CC with a fierce DP is not safe, if they've got a poke in your sprite as you start, the invincibility from activation ends before the hitbox takes over.

[artoflife]

okay....so where can i find that SBO log?

[50mOrEcEnTz]

mousehummel...first off, you need to stop lying by saying you've played Ino, and saying you dominated him. If this was true you wouldn't be posting ludacris shit up on here.

C-groove - you can sit on a level 3, which you can build to a lv3 faster than almost any groove in the game, and RC anything to make it an anti air, defeat RC by air blocking, cancel your Lv2 supers into moves, has counter attacks...what else do you want!?!?!?!

K-groove - you can JD, run, and small hop, you get a 35% rage bonus, and your supers take away the most or second most (i think S-groove takes away the most)....okay....is that too much?

A-groove - CC's that can be started from RC's, and take 75% of your life blocked or not, builds meter like CRAZY, has counter attacks

now as you stack up these things...i'd say A, C, K are the top 3 in that order...i like k-groove the most out of all these grooves...just because I prefer rushdown

the fact that you just say "all you gotta do is hit them with the super" is too scrubby. why doesn't somebody practice playing defense or something? don't be a dumbass and jump at a raged rock or geese, or roll into a raged sagat...you know? play SMART!!

i'll be the first to admit...k-groove is SCRUB friendly...well...so what....cable in mvc2 is scrub friendly but not so easy to play in high level competition...mag and storm rush his ass down

basically why would you go so far as to say it needs to be removed when your groove has roll cancelling...now if you took RC'ing out of the game...MAYBE.....and then only MAYBE....k might need to be toned down

[pain]

Even before RC, N-groove was the dominant groove, not K.....

[moosehummel]

thats the thing. Rcing is a glitch and shouldn't be played. And when i play online you don't get roll canceling. They fixed that glitch. so a, c and n don't have those capabilities. P becomes better because u can cancel supers. and ur right most of the time i avoid the super. BTW K is most damaging by far over S. but the fact that all u got to do is get hit by one super and ur even. how can u say it's not scrubby. i mean thats how u do damage. When ur RAGED. yes in c i can sit on my super... but i have skill when i combo in or land it. In K most of the time if u get hit by a super its either wake-up or stupidity. The reason i don't like the groove is of that reason. thats why i think like in mark of the wolves u get t.o.p. I believe u should be able to activate the rage just like a c.c. Then 1. it would be fair to a groove and 2. the super would be legitamate. NOt to say that ino lands some combos and good supers in 15 seconds but most people aren't that good against a turtle. Now K is a fun groove maybe i was wrong by sayin it should dissapear but i think it's needs some tuning. but i thought it would be an interesting topic.

[Gwai Lo ½]

Originally posted by moosehummel
And when i play online you don't get roll canceling.

I dont think it's good to judge a game based on online play. I would hate to see you play against k-groove with zero lag factor.

[Gen.d00dz]

why are you guys all beefin at this guy just cuz he has an opinion. if someone says "omg I hate sagat he's so powerful" you wouldn't all say "no sagat sucks he's the worst, it's only cause you suck that you can't beat sagat!" u'd all agree just cause there is a majority of people who hate sagat. now when there' sonly one guy saying he thinks K-groove is cheap, you're all like "no you're stupid! you're a dumb peice of crap worthless human being!" for some gh3y reason. you have no idea how to actually disagree constructively with a person. you have to insult him the whole time for some gh3y reason. if ur gonna post in a forum about strategy, then take all opinions into account, form your own, and post it respectfully. if you disagree with someone elses opinion or think that they're inferior to your mad l33t skillz and that you're the PERFECT player and know EVERYTHING about cvs2 and have seen all the Gods of the game play every groove perfectly and that this gives you the RIGHT TO MAKE FUN of everyone else who has an opinion different than yours, then prove that he's not worth your time and DONT COMMENT AT ALL! geez guys, there's no need for this thread to be 4 freakin pages long.

[Gwai Lo ½]

Please refraine from using the word "gh3y" :p

[Burghy]

why are you guys all beefin at this guy just cuz he has an opinion.

When ur RAGED. yes in c i can sit on my super... but i have skill when i combo in or land it. In K most of the time if u get hit by a super its either wake-up or stupidity.

Sometimes it feels like stealing candy from a baby

[jreinert13]

:lol:

[uber_soldat]

Originally posted by HeaT
c groove is the scrubbiest groove hands down..

im outi

Roberth

Yeah, stfu. You're just one of those ppl that gets beat by C-groove users, and likes to cry about it on the net, hoping to get some followers to justify your losses against C-groove users. Keep it going!

[niko_qt]

K-Groove...

I don't know about that... It shouldn't disappear. Wanna know why?

First of all, the Groove has JUST DEFENSE... This means that you can defend at the time you were hit and you won't get any guard damage. Some say that you also gain really, really small amount of life.

Next, the RAGE meter. The RAGE meter is suitable for beginner players due to its attribute of easily fulling up gauges due to damage. When full, you go RAGED (the chinese/japanese character by the way means anger), you do 35% more damage. And you get less damage too...

This groove is ideal for slow characters or beginner players.

[uber_soldat]

If any one groove is scrubby, I would say K because you get meter for getting hit, you become way too powerful, and your stamina is crazy too! All for being a bad player and getting hit.

[jae hoon]

Originally posted by uber_soldat
If any one groove is scrubby, I would say K because you get meter for getting hit, you become way too powerful, and your stamina is crazy too! All for being a bad player and getting hit.

You get meter for getting hit? What idiot would intentionally get hit to get meter in K Groove, thats one of the most idiotic things ive ever heard.

Personally I started playing K Groove to stop rolling, the rest of my game was solid, I just had a tendency to roll to much. IMO I just dont see how its so overpowered. A Groove like I said before is alot worse, P Groove is definetly worse and even C Groove can debatably be worse. Every groove is playable, every groove also can be beaten, its just a matter of getting of your ass and finding out how, instead of trying to find shortcuts around everything. If there is one thing I can say about alot of American, its that we are very lazy and dont really want to put forth any effort whatsoever. If you cant beat K Groove, its not because of the groove its because of you. Basically saying you can beat P Groove but K Groove beats your ass is pretty ludacris.

BTW K Groove is not only for slow characters, I Play both Athena and Joe in K Groove, and both are very good rushdown characters there.

[uber_soldat]

Originally posted by jae hoon


You get meter for getting hit? What idiot would intentionally get hit to get meter in K Groove, thats one of the most idiotic things ive ever heard.

Personally I started playing K Groove to stop rolling, the rest of my game was solid, I just had a tendency to roll to much. IMO I just dont see how its so overpowered. A Groove like I said before is alot worse, P Groove is definetly worse and even C Groove can debatably be worse. Every groove is playable, every groove also can be beaten, its just a matter of getting of your ass and finding out how, instead of trying to find shortcuts around everything. If there is one thing I can say about alot of American, its that we are very lazy and dont really want to put forth any effort whatsoever. If you cant beat K Groove, its not because of the groove its because of you. Basically saying you can beat P Groove but K Groove beats your ass is pretty ludacris.

BTW K Groove is not only for slow characters, I Play both Athena and Joe in K Groove, and both are very good rushdown characters there.

Are you retarded? Where did I say INTENTIONALLY getting hit is a good idea? WHERE???? WHERE???? YOU STUPID FUCKING MORON, WHERE DID I SAY THIS????

[jae hoon]

Originally posted by uber_soldat


Are you retarded? Where did I say INTENTIONALLY getting hit is a good idea? WHERE???? WHERE???? YOU STUPID FUCKING MORON, WHERE DID I SAY THIS????

Oh wow that just makes you so much smarter than me, you can use caps to yell at someone on the computer. :rolleyes:

Anyways, it appeared that thats the point you were getting at, dont know why you took it so far out of context anyway. Its not the only groove where you get meter for being hit btw, but you have to keep in mind that K Groove is the only groove that you dont get any meter whatsoever for hitting someone. I believe even in S Groove you get very little, but im not sure dont really use it. Getting hit is certaintly not the way to go in K Groove either, sure you get bar for it but alot of the times you will be nearly dead by the time you get it. After that your opponent will just choose to runaway from you, which is a good strategy, and that person will end up wasting his bar for nothing.

Damn people need to learn to chill the fuck out.

[JIVE TURKEY JONES]

I'll admit, it's annoying. I remember this fight like it was 2 hours ago. I'll never forget that shit. It was a R2 Sagat vs my R2 Cammy. I got hit with TigerRaid trying to roll cancel through a "predicted" low tiger. That was mistake 1. Ouch. So with in 2 seconds after eating that super, some how I baited him to actually throw a low tiger shot, I jumped. j.FP > FP >RH xx lvl3 Cannon Drill super. That was mistake 2. His meter was full again. He just hit me with a super. With in 4 seconds of it finishing, he had another lvl3! :mad: Well, he jumped in. I guessed wrong thinking he would just defend the Cannon Spike, so I went for the standing strong. Mistake 3. This was the only time he didn't just defend. He jumped in an attacked. Jump RH, d+FP XX TigerRaid = Death. As gay as that was, I just accept it's part of the game.

Jive Out!

[JIVE TURKEY JONES]

Originally posted by jae hoon
You get meter for getting hit? What idiot would intentionally get hit to get meter in K Groove, thats one of the most idiotic things ive ever heard.

Umm not to be a jackass, and I know this is a rare exception. But I actually saw a match at a tournament where this guy stopped blocking Hibiki's b&b combo to take the hits. It was just what he need to feed her ass a Low Tiger Cannon in return. That super just ate her little life bar up. I know situations like that are so rare it's not even a strategy, but I just thought it was interesting he did that.

Jive Out!

[jae hoon]

Originally posted by JIVE TURKEY JONES


Umm not to be a jackass, and I know this is a rare exception. But I actually saw a match at a tournament where this guy stopped blocking Hibiki's b&b combo to take the hits. It was just what he need to feed her ass a Low Tiger Cannon in return. That super just ate her little life bar up. I know situations like that are so rare it's not even a strategy, but I just thought it was interesting he did that.

Jive Out!

Lol thats to stupid, the guy playing Hibiki should have just turtled like a little bitch until the other guys meter ran out. If you get hit with a super its your own fault.:lol: TOP TIER that shit :lol:

[jreinert13]

Originally posted by jae hoon


Lol thats to stupid, the guy playing Hibiki should have just turtled like a little bitch until the other guys meter ran out. If you get hit with a super its your own fault.:lol: TOP TIER that shit :lol:

What Jive was saying is that Sagat DIDN'T have super and let himself get hit by the B & B combo so it would build his meter. This was so he could punish Hibiki's Slash with a reversal super.

[jae hoon]

Originally posted by jreinert13


What Jive was saying is that Sagat DIDN'T have super and let himself get hit by the B & B combo so it would build his meter. This was so he could punish Hibiki's Slash with a reversal super.

Yes I know what he was saying but the person playing Hibiki should have seen Sagat was raged and played more defensively. Again if you get hit with a super thats not comboed its your own fault.

[uber_soldat]

Originally posted by jae hoon


Yes I know what he was saying but the person playing Hibiki should have seen Sagat was raged and played more defensively. Again if you get hit with a super thats not comboed its your own fault.

As opposed to it NOT being your fault when you get comboed into a super?

[JIVE TURKEY JONES]

Originally posted by jae hoon


Lol thats to stupid, the guy playing Hibiki should have just turtled like a little bitch until the other guys meter ran out. If you get hit with a super its your own fault.:lol: TOP TIER that shit :lol:


Originally posted by jae hoon
Yes I know what he was saying but the person playing Hibiki should have seen Sagat was raged and played more defensively. Again if you get hit with a super thats not comboed its your own fault.

:wtf: I don't think you understood what I was saying. Sagat (K-groove), stopped blocknig during Hibiki's b&b combo. She did.....

d+wk, d+wk, d+wk, d+wp xx qcf+p

He stopped blocking after the 2nd wk. The d+wk, d+wp XX qcf +p part of the combo was just exactly enough to max out the end of his K-groove bar. EATING those hits filled his bar. He returned the favor by feeding her a qcbx2+p super. Bright lights, game over. (That super get's to her before she can recover wether her qcf+p hits or is blocked) He knew that, and took the hits like a man.

There was no way for her to turtle/run/roll/dash/keep away like a bitch till his meter ran out. She was stuck in the recovery animation of her qcf+p.

So in essence, yes. Taking the hits has been used as a strategy.

Jive Out!

[uber_soldat]

Uhhh...this isn't 3S. You can't stop blocking in the middle of a blocked "combo" unless he puts gaps in between the "hits". So, that isn't possible, unless I've been missing something in the game system. Anyway, this lack of detail in the CVS series is perfect for mashers like me who mash on c. strong/c. forward in order to avoid getting tick thrown...oh the elite tactics of CVS2... :lol:

[JIVE TURKEY JONES]

Originally posted by uber_soldat
Uhhh...this isn't 3S. You can't stop blocking in the middle of a blocked "combo" unless he puts gaps in between the "hits".

Actually you can. Go to training mode. Do her b&b combo. As the the second kick is being blocked, hold up or upforward. You will stop blocking and eat the rest of the combo. I was told the same thing by another person. I fired up my DC and showed them. It works %100 of the time.

Jive Out!

[moosehummel]

hey all again. In my opinion, sometimes i get hit to get raged. especially when there guard is about to break. I hardly play k because of my opinion on it...plus its no fun...i like canceling instead of one hit wonders or a whole cc which is hard to do. but if someones guard is gonna break sure i'll get hit so i can break guard then SUPER! so getting hit is good :). thats why theres no skill in some aspects of it; Just defending is the only skill i believe that is used in k groove. most supers are random and not skill but the other persons fault when hit. thats why i think it could be shaped better if u could activate ur rage meter. Requiring more skill. :) peace out

[Burghy]

The only supers that are even halfway "random" in medium level play and above are... let's see.
Sagat and sakura's low supers, sonic hurricane, gigaton blow, and shine knuckle.
Maybe psycho crusher.

[SSJ4Goku128]

I think what most forget to realize is that K & P Groove do not even have rolls, something which is very vital if you want to do RCs or if you simply want to dodge a fireball. I think that K perhaps is the most balanced super (next to P). A groove is the most unbalanced super vs P or K. As soon as one blocks, the block damage is enormous(such as with Sakura or Benimaru). You always gotta be carefull as well, cause K groove is the only super which does not stay for the next round if it is filled up all the way(well S groove as well, but when one is glowing red, it does not matter anywayz, since you have unlimited lvl 1s).

[AKUMA2000]

HeaT:
dude C groove is hella scrubbier than K groove...

i ve been in situations where a person had level 3 super in c groove before i was raged 1nce...


Hmmmm, could it be that K groove only builds when you take damage and C groove builds the fastest.....:lol:

[jae hoon]

Originally posted by uber_soldat


As opposed to it NOT being your fault when you get comboed into a super?

Nope that would be your fault to, but the guys whole argument is that he gets hit with random k groove supers from what I can see. No good player does a random k groove super.

[IceNinja]

I just wanna add somthing no one has added the fact the k groove gets frame advantages from the jd on the ground(or maybe they have) sagat does dFP you jd you get free hit or combo depending on distance. i dont k is over powered but it is for sure not a scrubby groove.

[MegaZangief]

Originally posted by IceNinja
I just wanna add somthing no one has added the fact the k groove gets frame advantages from the jd on the ground(or maybe they have) sagat does dFP you jd you get free hit or combo depending on distance. i dont k is over powered but it is for sure not a scrubby groove.

I was under the assumption that Just Defending shorten block stun, not gave you frame advantage, which is why you can't retailiate against every move you just defend.

[IceNinja]

yeah that sounds right i dont know the name for it but it is still the same principle- u gain an advantange.

[jae hoon]

Originally posted by IceNinja
yeah that sounds right i dont know the name for it but it is still the same principle- u gain an advantange.

You dont really gain an advantage, no offense but at least know what it is if your going to down on it. You get no retaliation factor whatsoever, not to mention block stun 99 percent of the time really isnt going to do you any good in normal play. The only gaining factor in jding is the fact that you get bar for it, and you dont even get that much bar for it. Sure you gain a sliver of life but most of the time not always but most of the time that doesnt really do anything for you.

[IceNinja]

Do this and tell me why this would not be an advantage.
have a buddy or the computer to forward and FP with geese and block it....try to hit him....no luck huh?
now JD the Forward and FP then hit down fk..did it hit...it does for me and about every other k groove player that is any good.
and when u jd you dont get pushed back so maybe that is why u can do this

[jreinert13]

Originally posted by jae hoon


You dont really gain an advantage, no offense but at least know what it is if your going to down on it. You get no retaliation factor whatsoever, not to mention block stun 99 percent of the time really isnt going to do you any good in normal play. The only gaining factor in jding is the fact that you get bar for it, and you dont even get that much bar for it. Sure you gain a sliver of life but most of the time not always but most of the time that doesnt really do anything for you.

Quick, hurry up and delete this post while you still can!

[Mummy-B]

If you can stop blocking and get hit with the rest of the B&B, then you're not comboing all of the hits properly.

Any chain or link combo in a Capcom-made, non-3S game doesn't allow you to stop blocking in the middle of combo. The only reason 3S lets you is because of Red Parry.

In any case, the Sagat vs Hibiki example is kind of an exception. That is one of the few B&B combos that are completely punishable by just about any Level 3 super whether it connects or is blocked. Taking the hit was a more intelligent option than blocking the whole thing and doing nothing, as opposed to landing a garaunteed Level 3 in exchange for like 1/25 of your life.

It's basically the same thing as taunting a K user before you die. It's tactical. But anyone saying K Groove is fucked because you gain meter for being hit is stupid. Outside of JD and the Level 3 that you get from JDing and being hit, what advantage does that Groove over any other? Nothing really. It's a balancing factor. A Groove CC lands and takes 50-75% of life. You get raged. You land a Level 3. They lose 45-60% of life. Substitute the CC for Level 2 to Level 1/special cancel, Level 3, or whatever. It's all the same. It's balanced.

[jae hoon]

Originally posted by jreinert13


Quick, hurry up and delete this post while you still can!

Why you dont? There is nothing you can hit them with after a jd that they cant block or escape, the only advantage is the fact that it gives you a sliver of life and some bar.

[jreinert13]

Originally posted by jae hoon


Why you dont? There is nothing you can hit them with after a jd that they cant block or escape, the only advantage is the fact that it gives you a sliver of life and some bar.

Seriously, you are completely wrong.
It's coo though I'll just explain the properties of Just Defend.

If you press back or down/back during the last 2 frames of getting hit you 'just defend'. Quite a few things happen when you just defend.

1)Push back is non existent. (When you block or get hit by moves, your character moves backward, just defend eliminates that)

This can be VERY crucial in a match. For example, some normals/specials may have bad recovery but are difficult/impossible to punish because they push you too far away. With just defend you don't have to worry about that.

Sometimes this can be a bad thing but it's mostly beneficial.

2)You recover faster out of block stun. I know it's not instant recovery like parrying but it's still very good. A large amount of far medium/hard attacks in the game can be punished.

Ex. I was playing my friends P Rock the other day with K Blanka. Rock had basically NO options. I know Blanka owns him anyway but add in the fact that everytime I Just defended a low/stand forward or a sweep it was a free counter C.Fierce or Sweep. Rocks poking game was gone(which sucks to begin with), which made it difficult for him to set ups parrys and the match wasn't even close.

Even when you can't punish moves after just defending, it's still effective because you can gain momentum by puting your opponent in block stun since you can get frame advantage.

3)You get super bar. Don't need to explain the benefits of rage..

4)You get life back. I don't care how little life you get back this can decide matches. I average about 15-20 jd's a match and I find that I get a pretty decent amount of life back.

5)No chip and guard meter damage. Not only do you not lose life from block damage you gain life from the JD....so essentially if you JD a special attack you get double the life back.
The guard meter is obviously very crucial...it pretty much speaks for itself but here's an example of great the potential is:

Playing Gwai Lo 1/2's A Sakura I jd'd like the first 3 or 4 hits of her CC and it saved me from getting guard broken.

So basically Just Defend is the shiet...it's easy, safe and has huge benefits

[Burghy]

You dont really gain an advantage, no offense but at least know what it is if your going to down on it. You get no retaliation factor whatsoever, not to mention block stun 99 percent of the time really isnt going to do you any good in normal play. The only gaining factor in jding is the fact that you get bar for it, and you dont even get that much bar for it. Sure you gain a sliver of life but most of the time not always but most of the time that doesnt really do anything for you.


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

That's priceless

My favorite part of this joke is the "no offense but at least know what it is if your (sic) going to down on it"... pretty nice man

ahaha

and then the deliberate misinformation later on... the author cleverly pretends that he has completely no clue in order to give us laughs

ehehe... "Can't retaliate after a JD"... that was a great one, man, you made my day

[Mummy-B]

Originally posted by jae hoon


Why you dont? There is nothing you can hit them with after a jd that they cant block or escape, the only advantage is the fact that it gives you a sliver of life and some bar.

... aside from Ino JDing the first hit of A Sak's DP CC and then DPing her out of it. I mean, you can ALWAYS do that if you normally block it, right?

[artoflife]

no man...if u jd u dont get block stun from the first hit of the dp cc
thats when u're able to dp her outta cc
but if u block it normally ..then u'll have block stun and cant dp it....thus eating the rest of her gc cc
least thats what i think

[Gwai Lo ½]

Originally posted by Mummy-B


... aside from Ino JDing the first hit of A Sak's DP CC and then DPing her out of it. I mean, you can ALWAYS do that if you normally block it, right?

oh yea, ALWAYS, if you cant do this... :confused: :lol:

[jae hoon]

Originally posted by jreinert13


So basically Just Defend is the shiet...it's easy, safe and has huge benefits

Hmm now I see your point, I stand corrected on that then.

[Viscant]

CvS2 is not Mark of the Wolves.
JD gives you almost no tangible advantage. You cannot cancel JDstun into a reversal. What Ino did is extremely unreliable, luck based, and should never ever happen. Here's why.
JDing in a custom is retarded. Moves have completely different stun times. Moves in a custom have completely different damage rates also. These are likely connected in some way. Try this with K-Geese. Sakura activate custom, close fierce (you JD it and hold forward). Now if she does the cancel early, you won't get hit because the stun will chain. If she does the cancel slightly late, then you can reverse it (or in this case, get punched in the gut).
Here's why it should never happen. First off, if you just do your cancels on time, this never happens. Second off, if you want to K proof your custom, add in extra normals in the beginning. K-proof Sakura custom would be activate, stand fierce, low forward, stand fierce (if there was any JDing, adjust accordingly and pick a button you like and mash until the flashing stops) then grind down.
I'm tired of people saying "Ino did it, that means K can beat A". It doesn't mean anything, that incident was a product of laziness. You have to outplay the other person almost 4 to 1 to win against Kyo/Iori/Sakura simply because if they're using their brains, every time they get the meter, their damage is guaranteed whereas your meter is worth nothing most of the time (and hell, most good A groovers will time their custom to your meter so you get hurt AND you get no meter for it).

Most of the time just defend isn't even that great. You have to do a lot of JDing to get good results. JDing something like Cammy fierce just makes your life worse. JDing crossups really makes your life worse. Most of the time you JD something in close you're really just hoping the other guy will screw up so you can get something you haven't earned.

K groove is fucking retarded. I play it because I play CvS2 maybe once a month in a tournament or something, but I still like to win while I play it. K isn't the best, but it's by far the most braindead and scrubby. It is the perfect groove for CvS2.

--Jay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com

[50mOrEcEnTz]

Originally posted by Viscant
CvS2 is not Mark of the Wolves.
JD gives you almost no tangible advantage. You cannot cancel JDstun into a reversal. What Ino did is extremely unreliable, luck based, and should never ever happen. Here's why.
JDing in a custom is retarded. Moves have completely different stun times. Moves in a custom have completely different damage rates also. These are likely connected in some way. Try this with K-Geese. Sakura activate custom, close fierce (you JD it and hold forward). Now if she does the cancel early, you won't get hit because the stun will chain. If she does the cancel slightly late, then you can reverse it (or in this case, get punched in the gut).
Here's why it should never happen. First off, if you just do your cancels on time, this never happens. Second off, if you want to K proof your custom, add in extra normals in the beginning. K-proof Sakura custom would be activate, stand fierce, low forward, stand fierce (if there was any JDing, adjust accordingly and pick a button you like and mash until the flashing stops) then grind down.
I'm tired of people saying "Ino did it, that means K can beat A". It doesn't mean anything, that incident was a product of laziness. You have to outplay the other person almost 4 to 1 to win against Kyo/Iori/Sakura simply because if they're using their brains, every time they get the meter, their damage is guaranteed whereas your meter is worth nothing most of the time (and hell, most good A groovers will time their custom to your meter so you get hurt AND you get no meter for it).

Most of the time just defend isn't even that great. You have to do a lot of JDing to get good results. JDing something like Cammy fierce just makes your life worse. JDing crossups really makes your life worse. Most of the time you JD something in close you're really just hoping the other guy will screw up so you can get something you haven't earned.

K groove is fucking retarded. I play it because I play CvS2 maybe once a month in a tournament or something, but I still like to win while I play it. K isn't the best, but it's by far the most braindead and scrubby. It is the perfect groove for CvS2.

--Jay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com

thanx for this post...it might help some scrubs realize k-groove is hardly over-powered. but from ur post, i feel like u are saying k-groove doesn't take skill to play at a high level...and i think it takes just as much work as it does to get good at k-groove than it does to get good with C-groove or N-groove...now I will admit...a-groove is an experts groove, along with p-groove. But yeah; i believe k-groove can and will win at high level comp soon...like i've believed alllllll along


i've never played another groove seriously at all...k-groove is juss pure rushdown, i guess i like it because it kinda brings me a nostalgic sense of MvC2...but a VERY VERY VERY VERY watered down sense

[JIVE TURKEY JONES]

Originally posted by Mummy-B
If you can stop blocking and get hit with the rest of the B&B, then you're not comboing all of the hits properly.

Any chain or link combo in a Capcom-made, non-3S game doesn't allow you to stop blocking in the middle of combo. The only reason 3S lets you is because of Red Parry.

Ok, I admit, I made a mistake

Foolish me, I said to hit up or upforward. It's actually UPBACK if you want it to work 100% of the time.


Now, with that said, granted I told you the wrong direction to jump, so even if you did try it, you probably wouldn't have got it to work anyways. But according to you, it won't work no matter what I told you to press anyway right?. I don't care what the "rules" of CvS2 are supposed to be. I'm telling you, go to training, record her combo. When it says 5 hits, and you feel that you are "comboing all of the hits properly", then set the dummy on play, and test it against Sagat.

d+wk > d+wk > d+wk > d+wp xx qcf+wp

After the FIRST or SECOND kick, hold UPBACK. (not up, not upforward. But UPBACK) You will remain standing as you eat the 3rd wk followed by the last two hits, as it is a combo. It does work. There is no "only 3rd Strike cuz of Red Parry" about it.

Anybody who doubts me, feel free to try it.

Jive Out!

[Burghy]

You're right

You remain blocking if you hold it in down or down-forward, but *not* in any non-down direction.

[jreinert13]

Actually JDing crossups can be very beneficial. Viscant was probably talking about Shotos, Sakura, Blanka, Geese, Chun Lis etc. crossups but just to clear any confusion....Nearly every crossup that 'sticks' is dangerous when playing against K Groove. Note that big characters can sometimes have a better advantage at punishing crossups.

Cammy, Rolento(doesn't stick but just always gets killed against big K characters), Guile, Bison(short or forward):

I know for sure JDing these charcaters crossups fucks them. JD->kick throw might even be completely untechable in certain situations. If they go for a combo after the crossup, they will get thrown, obviously. Sure these characters don't even need their crossups(cept maybe Rolento) but whatever

Kyo, Ryo(doesn't stick but has to be done very high in the air), Yuri, sometimes Mai have their problems as well. In most cases all they can do is tech the throw. And teched throws are advantageous to K Groove in almost every situation.

[rsigley]

Why is JD'ing crossups a bad idea? Here's an example, blanka crossup fierce electricity does insane chip damage. If you JD the crossup you can throw them for free before they can get the electricity out, so why is it a bad idea there? You don't take the 10% chip damage and like 50% guard or whatever the heck it does. JD'ing other crossups gives you free throws all the time too before they can combo off of it.
Also you said JD gives you no tangible advantage, ok how about if someone's throwing out random pokes that are usually safe, but not when they're JD'ed that's pretty big advantage there isn't it? Like for most characters trips from the right distance are free guard damage, but JD that whoops too bad gonna eat counter attack or a huge combo or a level 3 super.


Maybe if you actually played K Groove more than once a month like you said you opinion would be halfway accurate and worth something.

[Viscant]

"Why is JD'ing crossups a bad idea? Here's an example, blanka crossup fierce electricity does insane chip damage. If you JD the crossup you can throw them for free before they can get the electricity out, so why is it a bad idea there? You don't take the 10% chip damage and like 50% guard or whatever the heck it does. JD'ing other crossups gives you free throws all the time too before they can combo off of it."

Um. No.
There's no such thing as a free throw without using meter unless you're Zangief. K-Zangief is a special case in that he actually has guaranteed throws off JD. For everyone else, throws have startup.
JD into throw only works if the other person fucks up, since almost everyone has a jab or short that comes out faster than 3 frames. You get JD as air defense into throw only against people who don't really know how to play against K groove. There are piles of things that you can do to counter JD into throw, the easiest being HOLD UP. JDing crossups is more trouble than it's worth. YOU are at disadvantage, not them. All they have to do is mash a jab or short and you can't do anything. You can't cancel out of the JD. It's pretty much you just saying "here, I'm stuck here right next to you, do whatever you want". At least when you block you get pushed away and can retaliate better.

Oh and one more thing. Your example was completely garbage. Crossup forward into electricity deals you LESS damage if you block the crossup than if you just defend it. JD leaves you closer in so you block more electricity. It's still just as guaranteed either way. The only way you get "free throw" is if he tries to RC for some unknown reason.

"Maybe if you actually played K Groove more than once a month like you said you opinion would be halfway accurate and worth something."

Maybe if you knew what the fuck you're talking about, weren't talking out of your ass and actually were GOOD at CvS2, you wouldn't have just made an ass of yourself.

Thank you, drive through.

--Jay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com

[jreinert13]

If you just defend certain crossups, like the ones I mentioned before it's can be really hard to avoid a throw. I've seen many people try and mash jab, but they still get thrown. Also, I've never had Rolento tech a kick throw after I jd'd his crossup..this is just my experience and not any facts so I guess it probably means nothing. When I think about it, it probably has to do with positioning and that Jd seems to slow down the attack that was just defended so my opponents always make errors. I really don't know, and too lazy to figure it out exactly why.

but I know for a FACT that after JDing many crossups you can C.jab->bread and butter if they do anything but block.

Oh and Blanka crossup->electricy = massive amounts of free meter, and a lvl 3 if they keep mashing. Everytime my K Groove fights Blanka I pray to god he does this.

[Rokiseph]

JDing Crossups is the same as JDing a normal air attack. You'll be pummeled as long as the other guy does proper chains from a proper cross up (read- deep enough). There is no way a JD can help you recover faster from the initial hit such that you can throw him out of it. Not even for Zangief.

The only thing that allows you to throw after you JD is if your Character is Big and the opponent doesn't hit deep enough to land and continue. That's all. Which is why it seems Zangief is a good choice for such Tactics. But, I wouldn't jump at a K-Groove Zangief at all.

And JD has glitches too..

Awwright

you guys try to do this.
Have Akuma Throw an Air Fireball at you.
JD it.
Now
Block his Immediate sweep (Normal Block). (This sweep should be the one that Comboes off the Fireball , into a two hit.)

Notice that if Akuma does it correctly, you CAN'T block it?
Unfair huh?

Either you JD BOTH
or you plain Block Both.

And JD has disadvantages against other air moves too anyway. Rolento's Jumping MP comes to mind. JD the First of the 3 hits, block the rest, and suddenly, you don't have Shortened Block stun. Feh. Of course, unless, you JD all 3 of it. Thank Goodness hisshoukyaku is slow.

[Burghy]

You can't be thrown while in JD stun. Therefore, you should JD everything because you can just do a shoryuken the exact frame you come out of JD stun and nothing can touch you.

And what's this BS about JDing crossups leaving you closer? Crossups don't even push you away.

[50mOrEcEnTz]

Originally posted by Rokiseph
JDing Crossups is the same as JDing a normal air attack. You'll be pummeled as long as the other guy does proper chains from a proper cross up (read- deep enough). There is no way a JD can help you recover faster from the initial hit such that you can throw him out of it. Not even for Zangief.

The only thing that allows you to throw after you JD is if your Character is Big and the opponent doesn't hit deep enough to land and continue. That's all. Which is why it seems Zangief is a good choice for such Tactics. But, I wouldn't jump at a K-Groove Zangief at all.

And JD has glitches too..

Awwright

you guys try to do this.
Have Akuma Throw an Air Fireball at you.
JD it.
Now
Block his Immediate sweep (Normal Block). (This sweep should be the one that Comboes off the Fireball , into a two hit.)

Notice that if Akuma does it correctly, you CAN'T block it?
Unfair huh?

Either you JD BOTH
or you plain Block Both.

And JD has disadvantages against other air moves too anyway. Rolento's Jumping MP comes to mind. JD the First of the 3 hits, block the rest, and suddenly, you don't have Shortened Block stun. Feh. Of course, unless, you JD all 3 of it. Thank Goodness hisshoukyaku is slow.
alright...im a lazy ass, so i ain't gun say that experiment doesn't work, but i can say that every akuma player i've played against must have did it wrong before hand. (i doubt he can land the sweep though, i bet u can JD both) at any rate, that is one of the best crossups in the game, and u can negate that by neutral jumping and kickin him.

JD'ing a crossup ISNT a bad idea...what can they do to you? if they do it too high/early, they can get thrown or hit with a c.lk or c.jab if they try and continue the block chain, or if they do it PERFECTLY and deep...okay...accept it....you got crossed up...either block the rest of the block chain, or JD the first part of the block chain and block the rest...i don't understand why its bad...take ken for example....j.mk, two c.lk's, hcf + lk. JD the j.mk, the first lk, block the second lk, and block the kick move....okay...how is that so bad. even on blanka's cross mk to electricity it is not a bad idea to JD the mk.

have you played k-groove seriously? i doubt you have...because on this thread...you can kind of weed out who does and who doesn't...u seem to be one that doesn't.

yeah...and multi-hit moves are pretty hard to JD...thats just a downside of JD'ing

[HeaT]

JDing a cross up then throwing is situational...MOST of the time you cant do it, and most of the time when you do it, its because they person doesnt know how to play against k groove (like viscant said). I say its situational because it depends how deep the cross up is. If its hella deep and late your not doing shit after a JD. If the cross up hits early and high I can jab you before you land. Example, I was geese, chun li crosses me up high and early, I JDed, mashed on jab and jabed her out of the air before she landed. But since all this shit is situational, its kind of random and most of the time just guessing. Some other weird things that happened was i JDed a cross up with Ken then i FP dped them before they landed. I'm thinking this and the geese example can only happen when the cross up will not combo because it has hit so high. So really it doesnt matter, the only reason to JD a cross up is if your going to continue to JD the following moves to throw off opponents momentum.

im outi

Roberth

[Rokiseph]

????

Yo 50More Centz
For the Record, I wasn't dissing you...

ok

Yes, I play K-Groove Very Seriously.
It's my main groove for these past 2 years, and EVERY SINGLE WORD i said before is true. And I don't know what you're saying about the Akuma thing, but I was just pointing out to the masses that K-Groove has it's own Glitch Flaws. That Akuma Thing wasn't even a Cross Up, it was a NORMAL Attack. It IS a 2 hit combo, don't be lazy and Go Try. And it's a Game FLAW that you cannot Block his sweep Normally after you JD the First Fireball. Hello How do you Jump Neutral and Attack Akuma when you just got off the floor and the Fireball is in front of your Face??? YOu can Only JD it for Goodness sake (Or Block it)! And you can't normally Block it 100% just by pressing DB if you JDed the Fireball standing, AWW HECK, I say GO TRY...

And I Never, EVER did say that JDing Crossups were bad, I only said that it's the same as JDing a normal Jump in without a cross up, so read carefully before shooting out on how you 'Weed' people out because apparently your 'weeding tactics' are quite flawed.

I'm saying what I just said only based off what you are saying, I don't know enough about your skillz or knowledge so I won't comment any further on how I may 'doubt' that 'a certain person' doesn't play 'a certain groove' seriously enough to know nuts about it.

Look, I'm not dissing you, but I just hope you read better and learn to 'Weed' out the Real people who need weeding. This wan't even a case of you trying to correct any mistakes I may have made, it's a matter of how you didn't even properly read what I was saying first.

And Look, For the Serious K-Groovers, Understand that you can just JD Blanka's J.MK Crossup, and the Subsequent 3 Burst of Electricity and you will earn more than you were chipped off of once you decide to Stop JDing. For those who immediately think "WTF that's impossible", YOU'RE the one who hasn't played enough K-Groove. You know who you are.

[HeaT]

Originally posted by Rokiseph
[B
And I Never, EVER did say that JDing Crossups were bad, I only said that it's the same as JDing a normal Jump in without a cross up
[/B]

Well if you actually sit here and think about this, its not the same. There is more risk involved in JDing a cross up, although it's minimal, it still leaves room for more error. I know this cause it has happened to me many times.

im outi

Roberth

[Rokiseph]

Hahah

ok, someone jumps at you, you make a judgement

Is it a Cross up?

Yes : You Block Right...Good
Yes : You block Wrong...no good
No : Same as above.

Which means that it was actually if you judged correctly if there was a cross up involved.

Of course, there is always a Risk that you JD too slow and got hit. but, that's not a problem with JD, it's a problem with reaction see..

Anyway I get your point, it is situational.

However what i was saying is that, mucking up the JD aside, the result of JDing a deep Jump in from the Front and JDing a Deep Jump in as a cross up is the same, because you stay still, the opponent will almost most likely get the same type of hits off you subsequently.

[Burghy]

I think that guy was replying to Viscant, who is smart and says that JDing a crossup leaves you worse off than if you blocked it.

[UCRJesse]

viscant sucks, and so does k groove.... pshhh, if all of you were actually good you'd never get crossed-up anyways because you'd be on their ass like white on viscant

[50mOrEcEnTz]

come on guy; i know u can JD however many burst of electricity u want/they feel like putting out...what im saying is it is quicker than most and is one of the harder ones to do....how many k-groove high comp video's have u seen of people JD'ing electricity.

sorry, i mighta misjudged you, sorry if i did, but i do see a lot of people not knowing what they are talking about...and we still do need to weed out the people that don't really play k-groove....and i dun really care if ya think i can't play k-groove...and if u think i can't weed non-k-groovers out...i might not be able to weed non playing k-groovers out

i can tell you that k-groove isn't about JD'ing a tiger kneed fireball by akuma...its about a lot of tick throwing, landing your bread n butters, pokes, and using small jumps and extended block strings to wear ur opp's guard down. you JD mainly to get the momentum back in your favor, and air to air attacks. yes, there are other situations, those are the ones that come up the most.

trust me...i can cover my ground in the k-groove arena, and im ALWAYS willing to admit when im wrong, and willing to always learn...so if u know more than me...teach me sumtin

[jreinert13]

Jding crossup->electricity is damn easy... it's definetly not one of the harder JD's in the game, not even close.
Sure Jding just electricity can be a bitch because it's comes out fast and it has to be real close but after a crossup? its basically free super/health.

[Rokiseph]

Actually, Jreinert said it all..with respect to any response to my post.

Anyway

50morecentz

Here, I'm extending my hand out to ya, Peace man.

ok, look, Poke strings, Tick Throws, B&B they're important, true, however, you'll realise they're important for everyone.

ok, I'm sure you have your style in playing K, i respect that you hold your ground. Let me share with you how I play.

Say you are Fighting Sagat. Do you jump at a turtling Sagat? I do. There are Tons of things he can do. S.HP, Jump HK, Jump HP, Standing HK. Early Tiger Uppercut. Late Tiger Uppercut. Close Tiger Cannon. Wait for you to land, then throw. (Or if they read my mind, they jump BACKWARDS and Throw a HK)

That is why, once I jump I Immediately Tap Back in case he was extending his S.HP. Then Tap again, in case he did his Jump.HK or HP. Then at a slight pausse, one more tap, then Wait for an early Tiger Uppercut, Tap anyway, if he did it, Tap 3 times, Tap just Before you reach teh Ground (He may do another Tiger uppercut before you land but this one you will bounce away because he is too far to connect the rest). He MAY also do S.HK, which hits twice if done deep enough, bu this just means you didn't jump near enough to have done a nice combo anyway.

If NOT, Tap once at his Face level in case of a Tiger Cannon ,if he DOES , Tap 3 times really quick , you'll bounce off and up.)

If No Tiger Cannon, Just tap again anyway in preparation for the Late Tiger Uppercut, which you may have to JD 5 times.

now, in between all these, you have the option to attack before you JD, if the Sagat is crouching, of course you don't attack too early. I usually get in my hit early only if they're standing. If they're Crouching, I anticipate a Late Tiger uppercut. If he does nothing, expect a throw, or anything else, in which case, you press Down Back then immediately LP then Immediately HP (all done very fast) at the same time once you reach the Ground. If he tried a Light Kick, you'd have JDed it, continue from there yourself. If he tried to throw you, you would have broken Free. If he Still did nothing, you'd have just taken a bit of his guard bar with a LP, and successive poke strings at him depending on who you are. (You can just Back Down + HP if you want to also, it'll just result as a HP)

Now is this all worth it?

HECK NAAAWWW some people would say.

but realise, everyone has their own Air to Air, Ground To Air tactics. In Sagats Case, it is unwise for him to Jump HK or Jump MP in retaliation to your jump, because you JD that, its a Free bar, AND free damage for you, since you don't bounce high enough to be too far away from him. (Yeah, some people are thinking now "IF i JD that" but that's besides the point)

options left are the remaining ones.

Tiger Cannons, which unless he has a level 3 of, you are safe from since your leg being in front of his face negates his Tiger Cannon. Unless you were , umm, unclever enough to jump too far from him to do a hit anyway.

Which leaves him with 2 options. Early Tiger uppercut, which most people I see do. Late Tiger Uppercut, which the Cleverer ones I know do. Of course, the cleverest ones jump back and HK, I bounce back, they are already going backwards. But hey, you have a free bit of life and bar. (IF I JD that, hurhur)

now, of course, you have to judge for yourself what your opponent is like. If he cannot react with late Tiger uppercuts, or mostly just block, by all means, go ahead and chip him away.

Ok. This is just my style. And I get different results from it depending on which character I am playing against. Sometimes you cry trying to JD some characters (Rolento the B*st*rd comes to mind).This example is only Sagat. It's by no means the best way of playing K-Groove, but that's just me, I utilise JD every single damn chance I get, even if it means risking getting hit form a really unexpected move. (Of course I don't jump in to someone waiting there to do a Raging storm). No wait. I do. That's just me, i want to learn to JD every single damn JDable move out there.( I might master it in around 562 years, look out for me then, I'll be Oro with one Arm playing at the Arcades.) 5 taps fast for that. Remember. The point is, I jump in if I know I can afford the kind of damage the other guy can at that moment potentially dish out as an AA if I muck up. Oh, And If someone MISSES hitting you with a Raging storm, Jump into it anyway, one bounce, you're out, and you have free life and meter. And if you were fast enough to wuickly jump in , you might still have a chance to retaliate as he finishes his missed combo.

[50mOrEcEnTz]

Originally posted by Rokiseph
Actually, Jreinert said it all..with respect to any response to my post.

Anyway

50morecentz

Here, I'm extending my hand out to ya, Peace man.

ok, look, Poke strings, Tick Throws, B&B they're important, true, however, you'll realise they're important for everyone.

ok, I'm sure you have your style in playing K, i respect that you hold your ground. Let me share with you how I play.

Say you are Fighting Sagat. Do you jump at a turtling Sagat? I do. There are Tons of things he can do. S.HP, Jump HK, Jump HP, Standing HK. Early Tiger Uppercut. Late Tiger Uppercut. Close Tiger Cannon. Wait for you to land, then throw. (Or if they read my mind, they jump BACKWARDS and Throw a HK)

That is why, once I jump I Immediately Tap Back in case he was extending his S.HP. Then Tap again, in case he did his Jump.HK or HP. Then at a slight pausse, one more tap, then Wait for an early Tiger Uppercut, Tap anyway, if he did it, Tap 3 times, Tap just Before you reach teh Ground (He may do another Tiger uppercut before you land but this one you will bounce away because he is too far to connect the rest). He MAY also do S.HK, which hits twice if done deep enough, bu this just means you didn't jump near enough to have done a nice combo anyway.

If NOT, Tap once at his Face level in case of a Tiger Cannon ,if he DOES , Tap 3 times really quick , you'll bounce off and up.)

If No Tiger Cannon, Just tap again anyway in preparation for the Late Tiger Uppercut, which you may have to JD 5 times.

now, in between all these, you have the option to attack before you JD, if the Sagat is crouching, of course you don't attack too early. I usually get in my hit early only if they're standing. If they're Crouching, I anticipate a Late Tiger uppercut. If he does nothing, expect a throw, or anything else, in which case, you press Down Back then immediately LP then Immediately HP (all done very fast) at the same time once you reach the Ground. If he tried a Light Kick, you'd have JDed it, continue from there yourself. If he tried to throw you, you would have broken Free. If he Still did nothing, you'd have just taken a bit of his guard bar with a LP, and successive poke strings at him depending on who you are. (You can just Back Down + HP if you want to also, it'll just result as a HP)

Now is this all worth it?

HECK NAAAWWW some people would say.

but realise, everyone has their own Air to Air, Ground To Air tactics. In Sagats Case, it is unwise for him to Jump HK or Jump MP in retaliation to your jump, because you JD that, its a Free bar, AND free damage for you, since you don't bounce high enough to be too far away from him. (Yeah, some people are thinking now "IF i JD that" but that's besides the point)

options left are the remaining ones.

Tiger Cannons, which unless he has a level 3 of, you are safe from since your leg being in front of his face negates his Tiger Cannon. Unless you were , umm, unclever enough to jump too far from him to do a hit anyway.

Which leaves him with 2 options. Early Tiger uppercut, which most people I see do. Late Tiger Uppercut, which the Cleverer ones I know do. Of course, the cleverest ones jump back and HK, I bounce back, they are already going backwards. But hey, you have a free bit of life and bar. (IF I JD that, hurhur)

now, of course, you have to judge for yourself what your opponent is like. If he cannot react with late Tiger uppercuts, or mostly just block, by all means, go ahead and chip him away.

Ok. This is just my style. And I get different results from it depending on which character I am playing against. Sometimes you cry trying to JD some characters (Rolento the B*st*rd comes to mind).This example is only Sagat. It's by no means the best way of playing K-Groove, but that's just me, I utilise JD every single damn chance I get, even if it means risking getting hit form a really unexpected move. (Of course I don't jump in to someone waiting there to do a Raging storm). No wait. I do. That's just me, i want to learn to JD every single damn JDable move out there.( I might master it in around 562 years, look out for me then, I'll be Oro with one Arm playing at the Arcades.) 5 taps fast for that. Remember. The point is, I jump in if I know I can afford the kind of damage the other guy can at that moment potentially dish out as an AA if I muck up. Oh, And If someone MISSES hitting you with a Raging storm, Jump into it anyway, one bounce, you're out, and you have free life and meter. And if you were fast enough to wuickly jump in , you might still have a chance to retaliate as he finishes his missed combo.

alright....i kinda like that about the raging storm, i think it would be good if k-groovers actually learned how to JD those supers which tell all the other grooves "not to jump in" except for maybe P. It would be good if learned how to JD those, then they'd waste that lv3 that they had been waitin to use for oh so long.

the way i deal with sagat...it might be odd and more simple...but instead of trying to JD an unexpected anti air or a tiger uppercut (which i can JD a tiger uppercut, but....its about a 30/70 chance of me defending the whole thing right), i try and stuff his tiger uppercut. especially since i play ryu and rock a good bit...both of their rh's will stuff sagat's tiger uppercut and come out better on the damage aspect of things.

i use my JD to interupt the opponents block strings for my block strings. and i know tick throwing is important for every groove...but i think it is more important for k-groove since k-groove lacks many other things such as counter attack, meter u can sit on, counter roll, a roll period...the lack of these things and then since k-groove has run, small hop, and jd makes it THE groove to tick throw IMO. may seem like a scrubby style of playing...but i've been playin k since the day it came out, never played another groove and im not sure why i didn't, hehe; i remember i said i was going to either play k or s the first day it came to my arcade...im glad i picked k.

[Mummy-B]

Originally posted by Viscant
I'm tired of people saying "Ino did it, that means K can beat A". It doesn't mean anything, that incident was a product of laziness. You have to outplay the other person almost 4 to 1 to win against Kyo/Iori/Sakura simply because if they're using their brains, every time they get the meter, their damage is guaranteed whereas your meter is worth nothing most of the time (and hell, most good A groovers will time their custom to your meter so you get hurt AND you get no meter for it).


That is not the point, though.

Let's pick out P Groove and put it in that situation. IIRC, A Groove activation gives the activated character a 5 refresh frame advantage on moves. If you Parry "wrong" you get a 5 frame advantage, if you Parry "right" you get 7. So technically, if you Parry Sakura's first stand fp after the ping, you should be able to hit her back because you've got 2 extra frames left over (providing you're not doing some move like Kyosuke's c.rh).

It doesn't ever happen like this. What happens is, Sakura pings, I Parry the first hit, and it totally fucks up what they were doing and I can basically jab them out of the custom. Granted, even if I Parry "wrong" I have a longer window to hit her back than if I Just Defended it.

Very rarely do A Groove users anticipate the Just Defense of Parry of the first hit of a custom. It's like anticipating a Guard Cancel Counter. Theoretically, the A Groove char could cancel into a Roll and possibly avoid the hitbox of the Counter and keep going after the opponent whiffs. But you never see this happen unless someone is being blantantly obvious about Countering. Actually, I have NEVER seen this.

The point is, K and P Groove are largely at a disadvantage against A Groove. This is why, while Ino can do some impossible ass shit, guess who won the match? Tokido. The example is though, not an illustration of refresh frame advantage or some kind of technical gimmick. You just fuck people up when you JD or Parry thier custom hits, and it allows you to hit back if you're quick enough (or lucky enough to have something with invincibility and high priority like a DP).

[RagingStormX]

I like the groove:cool:

[HeaT]

Originally posted by Mummy-B


That is not the point, though..............You just fuck people up when you JD or Parry thier custom hits, and it allows you to hit back if you're quick enough (or lucky enough to have something with invincibility and high priority like a DP).

the thing is, like viscant said, if someone wanted to make it full proff you would throw in some other moves in there 2-3 of them before the initial repeated DPs, then they WILL HAVE TO JD those too, they will not be able to poke you out of them since the moves come out so fast one after another...call it lazyness, not knowing, not playing smart, whatever, it shouldnt have happened...in k groove

im outi

Roberth

[Viscant]

OK.
And while that's all well and good for P groove, that means nothing in regards to what we're talking about for K. Like I said, here's how to prove it. Sakura activates, then does close stand fierce, you just defend. She cancels to uppercut. You can hold forward and mash or do whatever you want. If she does the cancel on time you will NOT get hit.

I acknowledge that this can be difficult to time because after 3s, people start to freak out when they see the screen flash. Which is why I said that most people around here WILL K proof their customs just by adding in extra normals. Like I said, when you JD the first hit, you're really just hoping the other guy will screw up and you can get something you haven't earned.

Trust me, I've trained people to do this the hard way. I play K-Blanka and Cole plays K-Balrog. I ripped off the stored charge from him. Hold the charge, see the custom flash, tap forward, then back (jd is here) then hold d/f and mash. If you fuck up you get fried (or gigatonned).

It only takes 2 or 3 times before people figure out how to K proof their customs. It's really not hard though...all you're doing is picking a button you like and mashing until the pretty red flashing goes away. This isn't rocket science, it's CvS2.

On other stuff in this thread:
The Akuma example sort of works but the timing is different than people are thinking of. It's not as easy as Sagat or Sakura (don't ever just defend their jumpin if they're holding meter) but it works. They have to hold onto the air fireball for a long time. Most people who try this on me don't do it right although throwing air fireball then landing and activating custom if I JD still works. <3 <3 <3 A groove <3 <3 <3

Also IMO JD is overused in a lot of matches I see here in the US. People think that just because they CAN just defend stuff, they should. That's not really the case. Like I said, just defend gives you almost no tangible advantage on a lot of pokes and gives a tangible DISadvantage on others (jabs, Cammy).
But people also just defend too much and waste their meters. Nobody in the US times their rage to go off with the other person's guard bar or times their rage to go off AFTER a custom is over or things like that.

Meter management is what sets apart most of the Japanese K groovers and ours. It's a scrub groove, but Japan still does it better than we do.

--Jay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com

[HeaT]

Originally posted by Viscant

Nobody in the US times their rage to go off with the other person's guard bar or times their rage to go off AFTER a custom is over or things like that.

Meter management is what sets apart most of the Japanese K groovers and ours. It's a scrub groove, but Japan still does it better than we do.

--Jay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com

god damn...that was a good point...

good shit, now i must rethink some k groove shit LOL...

im outi

Roberth

[riot]

guys, i dont want to sound like a n00b but k groove has its own disadvantages

surely you can JD just about ANYTHING especially if you're playing turtle or playing geese and rock and hibiki and shit

i mean you possibly cant play, let's say... Iori on K groove because of the absence of ROLL. rolling is... should i say a BIG factor in a groove. but i think it only justifies why K groove is more like the suicidal types of rushers.

let's just say that K groove is for those who dont like to block too much and those who rushes an enemy. and dont need to camp a while and wait for a throw.

k groove players are oftenly getting predictable when they have their rage mode on. it's just one of the things that affects the game i guess... anyway... i think it should remain as it is.

K Groove = No roll, no scrubby air guard, super cancels(i'm not complaining, it's always level 3) no bullshit and no turtling around sitting your rage mode out.

[Gamma Ray]

I dont think "oftenly" is a word... :D

And I use K. I used to FLIP OUT when raged and try a lv 3 combo. Not anymore. You learn quick that it's suicide. I play a K Geese now, and his raged normal attacks alone to insane damage...i only pull off a LV3 RS is the guy is dumb enough to jump at me.

K is good if you like to preassure your opponents IMO. Playing against a raged LV2 Geese can be quite horrifying. His GC damage is also INSANE....want to turtle? 3 or 4 Forward+FP and standing RH will GC you...

Well this isnt a Geese thread, so i'll stop..but I just like K...and if you can JD well, you can have a air block like C ^.^

[vasAZNion13]

Originally posted by riot
guys, i dont want to sound like a n00b but k groove has its own disadvantages

surely you can JD just about ANYTHING especially if you're playing turtle or playing geese and rock and hibiki and shit

i mean you possibly cant play, let's say... Iori on K groove because of the absence of ROLL. rolling is... should i say a BIG factor in a groove. but i think it only justifies why K groove is more like the suicidal types of rushers.

let's just say that K groove is for those who dont like to block too much and those who rushes an enemy. and dont need to camp a while and wait for a throw.

k groove players are oftenly getting predictable when they have their rage mode on. it's just one of the things that affects the game i guess... anyway... i think it should remain as it is.

K Groove = No roll, no scrubby air guard, super cancels(i'm not complaining, it's always level 3) no bullshit and no turtling around sitting your rage mode out.

dont' use iori for k groove if you think iori sucks in k groove...compared to rolling groove...

if you think k groove players are "oftenly" getting predictable ithe the rage mode...what do you think about people who abuse rolls?....throw them out of the roll...

some people use rage mode to burn there super...but that's not what rage mode is...it really gives you some time to go more offensive...you have more damage, more defense...why waste it on a super...

k groove player who only jd fireballs shouldn't be using k groove..
jd is not made for anti turtles/fireball abusers....you can jump in and jd anti airs...
sometimes it won't work because they will wise and either air throw, or just not attack and wait till you land to throw you...but that's why you mix things up...doing jd a lot is good, but doing them out of habit is better...dont' force urself to jd...just let it come to you naturally....have it so you try to jd everything out of habit,...it's hard to get used to...

k groove and p groove are anti roll cancel groove....

my team for k groove is maki/zangief/athena...guess why...

[rsigley]

Originally posted by Gamma Ray

K is good if you like to preassure your opponents IMO. Playing against a raged LV2 Geese can be quite horrifying. His GC damage is also INSANE....want to turtle? 3 or 4 Forward+FP and standing RH will GC you...

Well this isnt a Geese thread, so i'll stop..but I just like K...and if you can JD well, you can have a air block like C ^.^


if you're a good turtler you know that you can throw people out of both forward + fp and sanding RH, plus so many pokes beat those moves clean :D

people should play k terry raiden other - best team in the game

[50mOrEcEnTz]

Originally posted by rsigley



if you're a good turtler you know that you can throw people out of both forward + fp and sanding RH, plus so many pokes beat those moves clean :D

people should play k terry raiden other - best team in the game

if u use those two pokes at the right distance you can't be thrown out of it...a good turtler would drill geese with a RC if anything

[jreinert13]

If you're raged with Geese fuck trying to land a forward+Fierce or S Roundhouse....try to land a crossup or a close jab..

Forward Fierce should be use to catch people by surprise in poke strings and as a meaty attack on your opponents wake-up.

S.Roundhouse is for stuffing jumps from far, getting in close when you see an opening and most importantly, in K Groove, setting up a Just Defend.

[HeaT]

Originally posted by rsigley



if you're a good turtler you know that you can throw people out of both forward + fp and sanding RH, plus so many pokes beat those moves clean :D

people should play k terry raiden other - best team in the game

how the fuck do you throw geese out of his s.rh???

im outi

Roberth

[Mummy-B]

Originally posted by HeaT


how the fuck do you throw geese out of his s.rh???

im outi

Roberth

Hold forward and mash on fp.

Seriously.

If he's close enough to hit you with anything but the tip of that move, you'll walk right into his animation and throw him before hitbox appears.

[Maker]

While im far from an good player I use K groove almost exclusively because none of the other grooves fit the way i play the game.

k is probably my favorite groove. Just Defend IMO is the best system I've seen in recent Sf's(thank you snk).

Id like to say just so you guys know i recognise K groove is scrub friendly... extra damage for taking damage, but what about the drawbacks, no roll and you cant hold your meter, making the supers a good deal less threatning (16 seconds to pull off a super? come on) I play a P groove ken user on a regular basis (were both not to good) and ive already seen that you cant just open up on people using K or you will be handed your rear on a platter.

my two cents...

[randomsuper]

k groove is hard to play vs anyone with solid defense. sure it's a nasty groove, i don't think anyone will deny that, but the bottom line is you HAVE to create an opening if you want to get that big damage in. grooves that allow you to store super own hard because they allow you to wait for an opening (whiff a poke vs c chun, and you better hope you don't eat that standing mp into death combo for example). but at the end of the day, playing k means you have to be creative. counter hit set ups, solid mix ups, throw games, jd skills and good reflexes are all the tools you really have to incorporate if you want to run people with k. otherwise, you'll get peaced out quick.

so yeah, k does have a lot of supers, but so what? that's why god invented blocking.

[Utopian]

k groove is hard to play vs anyone with solid defense. sure it's a nasty groove, i don't think anyone will deny that, but the bottom line is you HAVE to create an opening if you want to get that big damage in. grooves that allow you to store super own hard because they allow you to wait for an opening (whiff a poke vs c chun, and you better hope you don't eat that standing mp into death combo for example). but at the end of the day, playing k means you have to be creative. counter hit set ups, solid mix ups, throw games, jd skills and good reflexes are all the tools you really have to incorporate if you want to run people with k. otherwise, you'll get peaced out quick.

so yeah, k does have a lot of supers, but so what? that's why god invented blocking.

No.

K-groove is actually one of the most mobile grooves in the game.
It has run, small jump, and air just defense. All the things you say about K, with the exception of possessing good jd skills, actually ring true for C not K.

And I'm getting tired of people saying