Rock's corner trap and it's counters [Archive]

OneDumbG00k

04-29-2003, 05:15 PM

A dragon punch wont beat it. Level 3 super beats everything but abundances of Level 3 supers to beat a trap that will occur everytime you get trapped in the corner isn't quite practical.

Yeah sure, delayed getups and quick getups are a way out. But most people who use quick getups or delayed getups use them everytime. The reason being is you have to decide right away when you get knocked down or hit into the air. Most people use them by instinct every single time. THAT, will lead to above average players throwing a hadouken or in Rock's case, a Shining Knuckle that will cause a quick getup to become a quick way to get your ass kicked.

On the other hand, delayed getups are so easy to predict because, (guess what? they're delayed, which means slow) so you'll just end up turtling. I must observe that a delayed getup is much harder to adjust to concerning Rock's trap and you just may succeed in having hm think twice of whiffing moves.

If you guys haven't seen this trap you'll be surprised once you do see it. You'll be more surprised to see how you're recovery dp's and rising tackles mean nothing as Rock takes you for a one way ride skyward. I practice with my brother, who ain't so bad himself ranking in the high 70's, low 80's and we've experimented with just about everyone's anti-air special. You cannot beat it if Rock times it right. Same way as if you're standing over an opponent with Ken/Ryu and you time a dp to beat his rising dp off the ground. However, even that situation will result in a tradeup 50/50. But I've NEVER seen Rock trade hits with someone during this trap. Either you get hit, he screws up the timing or you block it. I'm just hoping more and more people do this in their games because it is a great addition to Rock's arsenal.

But great try with the delayed getups, too bad only C and P groove are the only grooves that can do it. BTW, rolls are no good from the ground. You can't roll through the Double Rebuken cuz you catch teh tail end of it and you can't roll through the Rising Tackle because as the other guy said before, it has great ground priority. You WILL get hit. Sorry, N, S, A, K grooves.

Oh, and quick note, the reason I don't put this thread up in Rock's specific thread is cuz it sucks and only Rock players who want to know strategies, rather than players who want to COUNTER Rock's strategies would go there. Noich.

OneDumbG00k

05-01-2003, 07:42 PM

You can also mix this up with his Raging Storm right off the bat. Although it would require a lvl2 at the least, you should be able to make a pretty great impression.

"Why is he standing over me? Doesn't he fear my recovery dp? Whoa, hold up, he's doin Double Rebuken, I'll just punish him afterwards, ok here we go-"

"RAGING... STORM!!!!!"

"-waaahhhhh!!!"

Once again, this is a real trap, you cannot get out of it save for your supers/cc's or just plain blocking it. This trap is great because it's quite deceptive. The Double Rebuken does not push you far away as a hadouken would, in fact... the pushback from the Double Rebuken is quite minute. Experiment with it, you'll love the stun damage.

Oh and Mummy, I won't flame you,... hopefully you've seen just how wrong your suggestions are.

Burghy

05-01-2003, 08:14 PM

This sounds like a dp/throw guessing game.

Using mathematics, we can see that this is a bad game for Rock to be playing, if the other guy has a super. The damage reward for a dp or a throw is not as high as a super. However, a blocked dp will lead to you eating a super.

Therefore, we have shown that this is a stupid trap.

Logical theory shows that my assertion has these parts:

Premise: This is a dp/throw guessing game.
Premise: A blocked rising tackle leads to eating a super.
Premise: A hit rising tackle or a throw leads to at most 2000 damaage.

Conclusion: This guessing game is not in rock's favor.

Please try to assail this theory by either of the premises stated. Thanks!

Rock-sama

05-02-2003, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by OneDumbG00k

"Why is he standing over me? Doesn't he fear my recovery dp? Whoa, hold up, he's doin Double Rebuken, I'll just punish him afterwards, ok here we go-"

"RAGING... STORM!!!!!"

"-waaahhhhh!!!"

:lol: :lol: :lol: its more like.

" why hath he not moved? the fool, ill punish his incompetance!
have at thee! shoryuken!

......... **** :wtf: rising tackle? the knave! ill toss the fellow....
......... **** :wtf: rising tackle? ive been deceiced! insolent! ill block his cunniness!
........ **** a second d. repukken! blast it! :fury: (tries to throw but wiffs the s.f cuz rock shifts and evac into early "money shot" and s.fh and starts the trap again) .......:mad: :mad: :fury: ........ FUCK YOU BITCH.... i hate you! AAAHHHHHH!!

hehe oh and nako can roll out of this trap if you dont catch her or the d.reppuken is late cuz she has a long roll. AND sorry to be an asshole but its RAISING STORM not RAGING STORM.

burghy you are right BUT the trap is not limited to being used ONLY if the opposing party has a reserved lvl 3. you also failed to include that rock does have a 3 respectable choice ( aside from the many possibilities ) throw, rising tackle (not dp different priority), AND the rage run type- shift, a move which only rock is in possesion of. different from a warp because of the evac toss...
shinkuu nage.... whatever. in respects to your assertion the trap is not invincible but if you use this trap in only one round its is worth the effort. besides if you add the lvl 3 variable to rock then the whole thing changes. to assail all aspects of this trap would mean to use all of the characters against this trap and their wake and or special which would take too much time.

OneDumbG00k

05-02-2003, 05:49 PM

Well said fellow Rock player. Well said.

NerenatwaH

05-05-2003, 06:43 PM

could you block his stupid rising tackle and the hit him on the way down?

couldnt k-groove be "washed,rinsed,repeated" twice and then lvl 3 your ass?

after a k-groove super im sure you'll stop that trap.

Rock-sama

05-05-2003, 09:45 PM

nerenatwaH, dont waste your time on this one, this shit is dumb because in the end, its a guessing game.... anticipation at best. you could argue what would happen and all that shit and itll never be solved for example.

on your replies....
your first reaction to block... ill throw

ill jump away after the second time...... starting to get the idea....

why? because im psychic just like the thread starter. when its all said and done you cant type your next move in the arcade.

Mummy-B

05-08-2003, 09:05 AM

Originally posted by OneDumbG00k

Oh and Mummy, I won't flame you,... hopefully you've seen just how wrong your suggestions are.

I wasn't flaming you.

Try out what I said, espeically the cross up vs. Rising Tackle. A correctly placed cross up beats it out every single time. This is why EX Vice owned normal Terry in CvS1 (among other reasons and other characters). It has ground priority for the first hit. After that, it gets hit out by any high priority normal, or trades with anything else.

I have been playing Rock since Beta version when it came out in Japan. I was posting shit up about him before Buktooth ever did his review (which was more in-depth than me playing random new characters hoping to find out all thier shit and win against Japanese people at my local arcade). The only trap he ever had was in Beta version when his Level 3 Shine Knuckle was twice as fast as it is now. You could jab Reppuken at full screen and if they short jumped, normal or super jumped, countered it with another projectile, or Rolled, you could Level 3 them ON REACTION from FULL SCREEN. They changed that real quick.

All of Rock's "traps" now have holes in them that allow him to either be:
1) RCed
2) DPed
3) Level 2 or Level 3ed
4) CCed
5) In some cases that involve you doing a block string and ending it with a Double Reppuken, characters like Cammy with a "hopping" dash can actually recover and Dash over your projectile and throw you.

What he has are mind games, if you know him well and you know your match up well. He doesn't have any traps, sorry.

Prism

05-08-2003, 12:57 PM

man, you guys are too nice. i'm trying very hard to not post, because if i do, onedumbgook (what kind of nickname is this, anyway?!) will go up in flames, since you guys provided all the logical arguments.

folken001

05-10-2003, 09:57 AM

If it is a guessing game, then it's 50/50 of being successful/failure. Why would anyone use a trap that only works about 50 percent of the time.

If you have learn math and probability, you should understand this. To have this trap work 3 cycles successfully is 1/2 * 1/2 * 1/2 = 1/8. If you can't do this easy math and have to whoop out of your calculator, it is 0.125. So only 12.5 percent of time will this trap work 3 times in a row. So, precisely, this trap is too sucky and has too low of success rate to be called a trap. In conclusion, it is not a trap.

Orochi Bulldog

06-02-2003, 06:09 PM

I'm sorry i'm not trying to doubt all of you rock players skills but this trap mixed with level 3 command trow med punch bufferd on and on and on. to make a long story short i seen with my own eyes one of those NC boys own a whole tourney with this trap. And he actually almost upset Autoro with this trap best of 3 (talking between 5_15%). this trap done properly WILL make you feel stupid.:bluu: I don't play rock at all but the reason i came in here was to see a sure fire way out of it lol. best i can figure is to roll the first time and hope for the best.

OneDumbG00k

06-04-2003, 07:53 PM

On occasion it has made me feel stupid too when I'm on the receiving end of it. Unfortunately, I don't see too many people use it. Best way out of it, because I always try to go for it; is to delay getup or instant getup. Every groove has one or the other. Most people train themselves to use them. Of course, instant getup can get you very f'ed up in a hurry if someone expects you to do it. Delay getup is great cuz you can do it off quick knockdowns (like Kyo's jumping d+fp) and even throwdowns (like kyo's kick throw). But both the delay getup and instant getup screw your timing.

Against scrubs you can use it over and over again, cuz they won't understand why it works. Some people automatically think they screwed up THEIR timing and will again try a recovery dp or try to hit you after the double rebuken.

Against good people, (if they haven't seen it before) they'll see right off the bat that they must block the rising tackle. And lemme tell you, it is so easy to tell who will block and who won't. If he's smart. don't repeat it, just do a double rebuken and walk up and throw. Its just as quick as a tick throw, since most of your double rebuken animation occurs while your opponent is down, and the pushback is extremely minimal.

Oh btw, roll won't work unless the rock player has screwed up his timing. Yeah... its a bitch...

Oh and as for all the so called holes that stupid fugger Mummy-B listed, I'll tell you a couple of things:

1) RC... it won't work. Why? Remember, the double rebuken animation is a double hit, and anyone trying to roll from the ground will get hit. So the only theoretical oppurtunity to roll is after blocking the double rebuken. So therefore, the only oppurtunity to RC is after blocking the double rebuken. But you'll always have that first bit of roll animation during any RC and this trap stuffs out the roll from the start. So no dice fool.

2) dp... it won't work, fierce rising tackle from the ground has much more priority and it begins INSTANTLY after the double rebuken is finished.

3) lvl 2 or 3 super... well duh. lvl 2 or 3 super beats out anything ya moron. How observant of you. Oh, btw tell me how many lvl 2 or 3 supers you have during a typical round?

4) CC ... you'd think it'd work but it won't. Why? Well there are two places where you can activate the CC. One is straight from the ground while getting up. It won't work because the double rebuken is a 2-stage fireball. So even if you were to CC through the first one, the 2nd one would hit you. Besides, the timing of the trap requires you to start the double rebuken before you start getting up. So you can never do anything but block the double rebuken except a lvl 2 or 3 super. Now... can you activate after you're done blocking the doble rebuken and maybe hit him before or during the rising tackle? No. Because the rising has multiple hits right off the bat and while the first may wiff, the rest will hit you before you can do a damn thing. And since you can't block, you'll get taken for a ride and waste your CC.

5) i have no idea wtf youre talkin about. Again, the trap works like this: when opponent is knocked down in corner and lying down, you start a double rebuken right above him, since it is 2 staged, the opponent must block upon recovery. While the double rebuken animation is going on, you charge up the rising tackle. You release the fierce rising tackle right after the double rebuken animation. Although there is usually push back after an attack is blocked, the rising tackle overrides it, and you won't get pushed back at all. There is no space between blocking the double rebuken and the rising tackle in which to get a move in. NONE. I don't know how cammy and walk over it or whatever you said.

Again, if you're lying down in the corner, you can not do a single thing upon recovery to beat out the double rebuken (except lvl 2 or 3 super). You can't roll, you cant dp, you can't cc, you cant rc. Between the double rebuken and the rising tackle, you can't even do the lvl 3 super. And that's it.

Orochi Bulldog

06-04-2003, 09:35 PM

good points but from what i gather there is no point in doing the rising takle in the first place. his full command throw will go right behind you and you are in the air. He has the trap laced so tight and is so bad in you head you may eat about 5 dunks b4 you get a rising takle. Trust me the guys he plays are good and half of the time we are begging for him to just do the damn super. I will close by saying i hate rock way worse that honda geese orwho the fuck ever. Just give me some advice on ways to beat that damn sweep and i will be ok. I rushdown-rock sweep-:bluu: I roll-rock-double crapuking:mad: I jump-rock standing roundhouse lp crapukin, there is that fuking sweep again! :mad: :mad: :(

OneDumbG00k

06-04-2003, 09:57 PM

I'm sure anyone else who wants to give you advice on how to down Rock'll ask... with which characters are you fighting him with?

Also, in terms of the run phase shift into throw. I've been poked out of it so many times I barely use it anymore. Yes, since you're next to him after the double rebuken, the run phase's built-in invincibility wil protect you, but once Rock is on the other side, you can get poked out of it.

Rock-sama

06-04-2003, 10:09 PM

Originally posted by OneDumbG00k
.....*snip*.....
Oh and as for all the so called holes that stupid fugger Mummy-B listed, I'll tell you a couple of things:

:lol: lol hehehe.... fugger.... * <----wipes tear from eye....

Originally posted by onedumbgook.

1) RC... it won't work. Why? Remember, the double rebuken animation is a double hit, and anyone trying to roll from the ground will get hit. So the only theoretical oppurtunity to roll is after blocking the double rebuken. So therefore, the only oppurtunity to RC is after blocking the double rebuken. But you'll always have that first bit of roll animation during any RC and this trap stuffs out the roll from the start. So no dice fool.

ok ok i know u got alot of shit from people that dont know what this trap can do ( :sweat: aside from the dicks talking trash) but i play rock, in fact im very good with rock, i can beat cammys and blankas with rock most of the time lets just put it that way with no rc. ( no scrubs either ) but rc blanka elec WILL beat the trap. also the second reppuken dissapears if rock gets hit during the first one last time i checked. the best way to get out of the trap is to keep blocking hoping that rock will still rising tackle cuz that how the trap gets started u can argue all u want about just throwing after the first d.reppuken but no one knows for sure who will do what, i play it safe and only do jab rising tackle everytime im in the trap and anyone that says it is not a trap, is wrong, i know im contradicting myself from the last page but ya it is a trap, a corner trap. :cool: and ummm..... :o if i time a roll just right, i could get out the d reppuken it wont hit you from the back unless ur iori or something and even if it does hit him, the trap is foiled cuz u cant do shit while u turn..... hmmm well maybe evac toss :sweat: and then throw them back to the corner but..... damn u onedumbgook damn u...... no no cuz that shit would be too complicated to do and then u would have to have perfect timing AND they can throw or jump away.....

Originally posted by onedumbgook.

2) dp... it won't work, fierce rising tackle from the ground has much more priority and it begins INSTANTLY after the double rebuken is finished.
j.dp will beat the rising tackle because even tho the rising tackle has better off groung priority, jab dp has invulnerability frames :bluu: besides no one can have perfect timing anyway so if u were to challenge both of them i would bet on the dp
Originally posted by onedumbgook.

3) lvl 2 or 3 super... well duh. lvl 2 or 3 super beats out anything ya moron. How observant of you. Oh, btw tell me how many lvl 2 or 3 supers you have during a typical round?
haha "moron", dude dont get bitter, people talk shit and if u suspect a lvl 3 then shift that shit and let the animation run while they wiff the lvl 3 and sit back and watch rock toss his hair hehe well maybe thats is just me and my cocky bastardness :cool:
Originally posted by onedumbgook.

4) CC ... you'd think it'd work but it won't. Why? Well there are two places where you can activate the CC. One is straight from the ground while getting up. It won't work because the double rebuken is a 2-stage fireball. So even if you were to CC through the first one, the 2nd one would hit you. Besides, the timing of the trap requires you to start the double rebuken before you start getting up. So you can never do anything but block the double rebuken except a lvl 2 or 3 super. Now... can you activate after you're done blocking the doble rebuken and maybe hit him before or during the rising tackle? No. Because the rising has multiple hits right off the bat and while the first may wiff, the rest will hit you before you can do a damn thing. And since you can't block, you'll get taken for a ride and waste your CC.
i think ur not doing all the math in this, how bout if u do it on akuma and he ccs and then hurricane kicks or cc then roll while rock is till doing the d reppuken. it depends on the character u play against cuz if u were to play against ME ( i play n-groove) i would counter the d reppuken or command roll behind u and start the trap on u ^_^
Originally posted by onedumbgook.

5) i have no idea wtf youre talkin about. Again, the trap works like this: when opponent is knocked down in corner and lying down, you start a double rebuken right above him, since it is 2 staged, the opponent must block upon recovery. While the double rebuken animation is going on, you charge up the rising tackle. You release the fierce rising tackle right after the double rebuken animation. Although there is usually push back after an attack is blocked, the rising tackle overrides it, and you won't get pushed back at all. There is no space between blocking the double rebuken and the rising tackle in which to get a move in. NONE. I don't know how cammy and walk over it or whatever you said.

Again, if you're lying down in the corner, you can not do a single thing upon recovery to beat out the double rebuken (except lvl 2 or 3 super). You can't roll, you cant dp, you can't cc, you cant rc. Between the double rebuken and the rising tackle, you can't even do the lvl 3 super. And that's it.
in mummy-bs defence, he was talking about a block string. most of the time u c. jab, c. short, c.mk reppuken or j hardedge right. but some people try to roll by the reppuken so IN ANTICIPATION, u d reppuken and they eat a double gust fist-sandwich ( for the third time ioris love the double reppuken :lol: )

mr orochi bulldog ill set shit straight

c. groove u alpha counter ( i dont know the exact name go eat an ass! )

a. groove u alpha counter or cc the hell out of there ( the double reppuken that is! )

p. groove u parry the first hit and jab rock!

s. groove ur fucked hahahahahahahahahahahahaha :lol: :evil:

n. groove u alpha counter or command roll ( dont know the correct name either so go eat out a fat chick )

k. jd the the d reppuken and keep blocking the first time rock tries the trap and the second time ur on ur own........

well thats it for me. the trap is not invinsible so let not depend on it. [peace]

kobokushi.

06-04-2003, 10:09 PM

Is it just me or is PURPOSLEY doing a FIERCE blocked rising tackle asking to get punished? Also the other guy is right- this trap over and over again doesn't work. You just have to mix up various knockdowns. Even then no trap is fully airtight. If you can keep your opponent guessing he won't be able to figure out a pattern and hence a solution though. But this means that it's no longer a noob-friendly trap- it's *gasp* skill.....

OneDumbG00k

06-04-2003, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by Rock-sama

ok ok i know u got alot of shit from people that dont know what this trap can do ( :sweat: aside from the dicks talking trash) but i play rock, in fact im very good with rock, i can beat cammys and blankas with rock most of the time lets just put it that way with no rc. ( no scrubs either ) but rc blanka elec WILL beat the trap.
I HATE BLANKA.
Originally posted by Rock-sama

j.dp will beat the rising tackle because even tho the rising tackle has better off groung priority, jab dp has invulnerability frames :bluu: besides no one can have perfect timing anyway so if u were to challenge both of them i would bet on the dp
DP has never worked against me. None of em have. I have never gotten beaten out or traded hits with a dp. You must be screwin up your timing with the Rising Tackle. Either that, or the timing for the dp must be so precise and that's the reason nobody has ever done it to me personally. I'm also wondering if you using lp rising tackle exclusively and me using fp rising tackle exclusively may have something to do with it... different priority on em???
Originally posted by Rock-sama

i think ur not doing all the math in this, how bout if u do it on akuma and he ccs and then hurricane kicks or cc then roll while rock is till doing the d reppuken. it depends on the character u play against cuz if u were to play against ME ( i play n-groove) i would counter the d reppuken or command roll behind u and start the trap on u ^_^
No CC has ever worked against it in my experience. In fact, most people can't get it out cuz when they try to, they get stuffed out by the rebuken or the rising tackle. The roll is an interesting point. Never thought of that before, and luckily... nobody has ever thought of it while playing against me. ^_^
Originally posted by Rock-sama

mr orochi bulldog ill set shit straight

c. groove u alpha counter ( i dont know the exact name go eat an ass! )

a. groove u alpha counter or cc the hell out of there ( the double reppuken that is! )

p. groove u parry the first hit and jab rock!

s. groove ur fucked hahahahahahahahahahahahaha :lol: :evil:

n. groove u alpha counter or command roll ( dont know the correct name either so go eat out a fat chick )

k. jd the the d reppuken and keep blocking the first time rock tries the trap and the second time ur on ur own........

well thats it for me. the trap is not invinsible so let not depend on it. [peace]
Y'know... all these things really SHOULD work... and you can add in on this too rock-sama. But I've never actually seen anyone do any of these things...

Alpha counters only pop out on me during blocked CC's or rushdowns or persistent jabbing. Seems people are very reserved in using them or are programmed to use them in certain situations. Although I am fully aware if I ever tried this garbage on you, this is what you'd smack me around with.

In terms of JD and parry; I have used this on K and P groovers too, and I also know they love JD'ing and parrying off the ground; but I think the double rebuken's timing is VERY hard to get down. Especially the first wave since it's so meaty. All this, I believe is the reason, I've NEVER seen anyone do a recovery JD or parry. Have people done it to you? And I'm not just fightin scrubs. I fight a shitload of people in this forum online.

Never said it was invincible. I believe certain parts of it are invincible however. Particularly, the transition between the end of the double rebuken and the rising tackle. Which is the part your tryin to bait the opponent in on. Although I must admit, having never experienced the alpha counters, JD's and parries during the double rebuken has lead me to believe that the double rebuken part on its own was nearly invincible as well (in terms of, the opponent HAD to block it). My bads. But to be honest, when I get this shit goin, rising tackle and throws are all I need. Although run phase shift would really be nasty... but awfully mean... man... I'd hate to see that NC guy in action, musta been painful to watch.

Orochi Bulldog

06-05-2003, 02:14 PM

well i m not trying to get into this argument but its only painful to watch when its being done to you but hilarious to see and hear someone else go from nice, nice!, got dam, ok, alright now, fuck that do it again. BIG KO from a rasing storm then he looks over at one of his boys and says did you see that cheesy shit. :lol: But what i am asking here are some tips for fighting rock what are his weaknesses. when are you using that sweep is pretty much what i dont understand. is it instant defense or are you trying to keep me from moving or all of the above

OneDumbG00k

06-05-2003, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by Orochi Bulldog
well i m not trying to get into this argument but its only painful to watch when its being done to you but hilarious to see and hear someone else go from nice, nice!, got dam, ok, alright now, fuck that do it again. BIG KO from a rasing storm then he looks over at one of his boys and says did you see that cheesy shit. :lol: But what i am asking here are some tips for fighting rock what are his weaknesses. when are you using that sweep is pretty much what i dont understand. is it instant defense or are you trying to keep me from moving or all of the above

Again, I'm having a lot of trouble trying to give advice cuz I'm thinking of way too many variables. Is Rock in C or A? Or is he a K or P whore? The difference between a C/A and a K/P Rock is quite significant. And since you're running, are you using N or K?

Are you playing with fast guys, no-projectile guys, big guys... I mean, I could tell you what to do when you're Ken or Ryu, but I'm not sure it'll matter.

I can say that universally, Rock's ground to air and air to air game kick ass. His s.RH for jump-in's, his d+sp for crossups. His jumping forward kick is ridiculous and I have since replaced every jumping attack with it. So don't jump at him unless he's whiffed something are unless you're goin for a crossup. Now yes, he does have d+sp for crossup's but they don't work all the time, especially against fast jumpers like blanka. Against sak and chun they work better.

About his sweeps, I dunno, you sound liek you're gettin swept liek crazy, if you're running in like a maniac cuz you can't jump or roll; then you need to throw a projectile beforehand and preferably from across the screen (which is where most Rock's I know would rather have their opponent). Something like, throw out a weak fireball with Ken/Ryu/Akuma/Terry/Guile and run behind it. If you time the run right, he can't roll, because you'll be in sweep range, he can't jump cuz you can pull out a dp or crack shot or d+hp to knock him out.

I like to use sweeps to add in that extra guard break damage after some pokes or after a weak hardedge (qcb+wp). I don't use them to stop moving cuz you could just small jump over em and you're screwed. I like using sweeps against roll-happy peepz, but you don't sound like one.

See if this works. Do the "follow the fireball" and hope that he just blocks it. Do your standard long range poke as the fireball hits, such as ryu's s.fp, ken's f+RH, guile's s.fp, terry's weak crackshot. If he gets hit great, if he blocks then you'll be at a somewhat comfortable distance to attempt a small jumpkick. Or with shoto's you could whiff a weak hurricane kick to bait him. With terry you could do another weak power wave and charge your rising tackle if he should roll. Guile has some annoying block string at moments like these but I don't play him, just against him and it's pretty effective. Chun-li/mai/sakura/beni from this distance should try crossups. Iori can throw another fireball... kyo can throw out an overhead kick (reverse dp+weak k). What I'm sayin is, once you get to outside his sweep range, most Rock's I know get a little edgy. They don't want to whiff a sweep or a fireball. Their jumps are very slow so they won't jumpkick you. They pretty much just wait for you to screw up. You can do a great deal with that. Just don't walk up to him or roll.

If you're using quick jumpers like blanka/vega/mai then with blanka whiff a weak ball and elec, then you should be close enough to start his jumping up and down with RH garbage. Being so close with such fast jumpkicks is Rock's worst nightmare. With Vega, you could run and whiff a fierce sweep to get into range and do the same. I dunno... tell me who you're playin with and I'll tell you what good players have done to me when I'm Rock.

Orochi Bulldog

06-05-2003, 07:31 PM

cammy sakura chun li vega iori sagat no prob there shoto's and kinda starting with yami. do you mean that elbow stops crossups. damn he doesn t do that. but one thing that pisses me off is on wake up he will run up with a short then do the sinku throw or a raging storm (uppercut with shoto no prob)
and i also have trouble hitting him after it. but i think the sweep range think will help me out a whole lot

OneDumbG00k

06-05-2003, 11:38 PM

Originally posted by Orochi Bulldog
cammy sakura chun li vega iori sagat no prob there shoto's and kinda starting with yami. do you mean that elbow stops crossups. damn he doesn t do that. but one thing that pisses me off is on wake up he will run up with a short then do the sinku throw or a raging storm (uppercut with shoto no prob)
and i also have trouble hitting him after it. but i think the sweep range think will help me out a whole lot

1) Cammy - walk back and forth with s.rh and s.fp, good lord she's a pain in the ass. Watch some of the SRK vids in the multimedia section and you'll see. Don't use the spiral arrow too often. Rock's tend to throw out a lot of rebukens and can even counter it easily.

2) Sakura - Low jump a lot. If you're ever just outside sweep range, hurricane kick and standard block string. If you're closer, go for the crossup. I'm pretty sure you walk back and forth with her too in order to get this close. Sorry but I don't play her often.

3) Chun-li - jump like crazy, she's so fast that one successful jump in with her, whether its blocked or not will lead to a block string, then a crossup into a block string, and so on and so on. She jumps so fast, that unless she's superjumping from across the screen, its VERY hard to hit her with s.RH. If you find yourself in this position, walk forward. She walks fast.

4) Vega - jump... even more than chun-li. I can't remember the last time I've successfully s.RH a vega. It's nearly impossible. Again, watch some of the SRK vids and you'll see how annoying he can be by just jumping straight up and down.

5) Iori - needs skill but can be a monster. Always throw fireballs to bait his jumpin so that yo can do a cr.fp. If he's in close, cr. wp's are your best friend. After you've trained him to not jump at you, always throw out 2 fireballs in succession. The first one with fp and the 2nd one with wp. That is, unless of course, you're very close to him. In that case, you throw out a weak fireball, walk up to the appropriate distance and go for cr. RH.

6) Sagat - I pwn Sagat. After adapting my jumping mk into my arsenal, sagat sux ballz. No advice there. Try to go to Sagat forum or watch any SRK vids cuz there are SO many vids with Sagat in em.

BTW... the move he stops crossups with isn't an elbow. It's crouching strong punch, he kinda punches straight up. But it doesn't work well against fast jumpers who can crossup. I'd have to say it works 50/50 for me when I fight sak, cammy and chun tho, a lot of trading hits. Also, if someone is using shinku nages on you, you just gotta poke. With fast pokers like Iori you'll stop him from ever doing a shinku nage again since a poke'll setup your super or his triple punch combo. I'm not sure how this guy is gettin a raging storm off you during wakeup. Just take the pokes liek a man (block), get used to blocking high for the rage run dunk (a favorite move of mine) and throw out weak kicks/jabs whenever you see a run phase shift. If he whiffs a raging storm, you have to time your jumps better. There's quite a lot of recovery animation after the storm's AoE fades and more than enough time for you to superjumpkick his ass from anywhere on screen. There's no need to settle for just a sweep or a fireball. Go after him.

You must be poke happy with any character these days. Just make sure he's not trying to bait a raging storm or a neo rave. And it sounds like this guy ain't usin hard edges (qcb+p) which is foolish, but advantageous to you. If he does start using em, watch out for this in particular: 1) at the start of match, rock does a weak hardedge 2) since its weak it brings him just inside of sweep range and he cannot be punished for whiffing it 3) since you're prolly trying to just walk back from the offset, you're block animation will take into effect and pretty much hold you in place for him to sweep you. Of course if you constantly block low, no problem. But a lot of rocks'll try this anywhere in the match so long as there's the right spacing. Kinda like blanka's whiff the ball into elec. This is where I get most of my sweeps anyway...

Orochi Bulldog

06-06-2003, 09:19 AM

thnx It sounds real promising. because to think of it the only threat would be the double rebuken from sweep range. if you can't see how you can get hit with a raging stoem huh. Ok you are rock and you just bust after a sweep. The last fight you had you just ran up st lk sinku throw shine knukle. next time you will probably jump try to dragon punch etc they will all get stuffed. Hey but since you help me out try a defensive lite kick double rebuken lite knukle sweep or whatever. from what i gather he is just full of 50 50 shit that makes him a prick.

Rock-sama

06-17-2003, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by Orochi Bulldog
thnx It sounds real promising. because to think of it the only threat would be the double rebuken from sweep range. if you can't see how you can get hit with a raging stoem huh. Ok you are rock and you just bust after a sweep. The last fight you had you just ran up st lk sinku throw shine knukle. next time you will probably jump try to dragon punch etc they will all get stuffed. Hey but since you help me out try a defensive lite kick double rebuken lite knukle sweep or whatever. from what i gather he is just full of 50 50 shit that makes him a prick.

does this rock player posts in srk cuz he sounds like he know what he is doing and if he lives close by ( like near pomona or west covina in cali) i would like to challenge him.

UCRJesse

06-22-2003, 02:30 AM

Originally posted by Rock-sama

does this rock player posts in srk cuz he sounds like he know what he is doing and if he lives close by ( like near pomona or west covina in cali) i would like to challenge him.

sounds like my rock, i've been beating a lot of people with sweeps and short into 360 throws... he might be one of the ucr commons scrubs......

ANYWAYS... getting back to this thread... to anyone trying to learn rock tactics... don't listen to onedumbgook, his double reppuken rising tackle shit doesn't work... Rock-sama has a really solid rock but i think this is the only thing that he does that leaves him really open... (when we played i dp'ed or super'ed you out of this every time)... that tactic only works on scrubs... not even seasoned scrubs, just mall scrubs... i highly suggest anyone who wants to learn rock go to the other threads

Mummy-B

06-22-2003, 06:30 AM

Man I missed this. I hope this dude's still around. I can't sleep and I am so bored.

Originally posted by OneDumbG00k
Oh and as for all the so called holes that stupid fugger Mummy-B listed, I'll tell you a couple of things:

1) RC... it won't work. Why? Remember, the double rebuken animation is a double hit, and anyone trying to roll from the ground will get hit. So the only theoretical oppurtunity to roll is after blocking the double rebuken. So therefore, the only oppurtunity to RC is after blocking the double rebuken. But you'll always have that first bit of roll animation during any RC and this trap stuffs out the roll from the start. So no dice fool.

Mmm. RCs have this thing called a hitbox. It means, I go through your fireball, and while you're still trying to finish it, I hit you for free. There is an opening, when you block any of Rock's normals buffered into a Reppuken, between the normal and the fireball. RC time, you get hit for free. You obviously can't RC and don't know how to do it or what it does.

Because the only thing that stuffs out RCs is a throw.

So no dice, retard.

2) dp... it won't work, fierce rising tackle from the ground has much more priority and it begins INSTANTLY after the double rebuken is finished.

This is the most retarded fucking thing I have ever heard. I won't even touch this.

3) lvl 2 or 3 super... well duh. lvl 2 or 3 super beats out anything ya moron. How observant of you. Oh, btw tell me how many lvl 2 or 3 supers you have during a typical round?

No. RCs beat them both. A late jab DP beats out of Level 2.

How many? With a shitty character like King, I can get 3 Level 2's a match. With someone like Blanka who can meter build and turtle, I can probably get more.

4) CC ... you'd think it'd work but it won't. Why? Well there are two places where you can activate the CC. One is straight from the ground while getting up. It won't work because the double rebuken is a 2-stage fireball. So even if you were to CC through the first one, the 2nd one would hit you.

Nope. I can use the invincibility frames to walk right up to you and punch you with a stand fierce and go right into a DP custom for free, because hitting Rock in the middle of the animation cancels the fireball.

Besides, the timing of the trap requires you to start the double rebuken before you start getting up. So you can never do anything but block the double rebuken except a lvl 2 or 3 super.

I can sit there and wait, then DP as the fireball gets near me, and it'll pass right through me. This is an SF2 trick from elementary school. It's called using invincibility frames.

Now... can you activate after you're done blocking the doble rebuken and maybe hit him before or during the rising tackle? No. Because the rising has multiple hits right off the bat and while the first may wiff, the rest will hit you before you can do a damn thing. And since you can't block, you'll get taken for a ride and waste your CC.

Yes. I can c.fierce his ass with Sagat for free in the middle of a Rising Tackle.

5) i have no idea wtf youre talkin about. Again, the trap works like this: when opponent is knocked down in corner and lying down, you start a double rebuken right above him, since it is 2 staged, the opponent must block upon recovery. While the double rebuken animation is going on, you charge up the rising tackle. You release the fierce rising tackle right after the double rebuken animation. Although there is usually push back after an attack is blocked, the rising tackle overrides it, and you won't get pushed back at all. There is no space between blocking the double rebuken and the rising tackle in which to get a move in. NONE. I don't know how cammy and walk over it or whatever you said.

Pushback only occurs if you're within one character spack when the block. If you're that close, you're too close. And Rising Tackle doesn't "override" it, either. It moves you forward some, which puts you back relatively in the same spot.

You don't have to block either. While Rock is winding up, you can let go fo block when he throws the first part and jump away, you can let go of block and jump away from the second part too.

Cammy can ground dash over any ground projectile. This is why, when I go in to Dash for a throw and Sagat does a Level 3 Tiger Raid, he only hits her for 50% of the damage, because it treats hitting her in the peak of her dash like she's in the air and it juggles her. So I can not hold back, wait for the fireball to get in front of me, Dash over it, and Cannon Spike you clean out of your Rising Tackle. Or if I have it my way, Dash -> Reverse Shaft Breaker.

Obviously you don't know enough about the game.

Again, if you're lying down in the corner, you can not do a single thing upon recovery to beat out the double rebuken (except lvl 2 or 3 super). You can't roll, you cant dp, you can't cc, you cant rc. Between the double rebuken and the rising tackle, you can't even do the lvl 3 super. And that's it. [/B]

You keep telling yourself that. When you wonder why you keep getting your ass kicked, you can come back and look here and figure out why, becaues I laid it all out for you. Mmmkay? Lovely. Now go play with your friends.

OneDumbG00k

06-27-2003, 11:55 PM

Haven't been back in this thread for awhile. Then i saw this garbage above. Mummy-B, you're an ass. Half the stuff you said requires situations that don't even conform to what I'm doing.

I'll lay it out one more time for you ass so pay attention. Rock is standing above you while you're on the ground. So when he's winding the fireball, the fireball wave motion is initiated on top of you. So don't give me crap about dp'ing through it as if I threw it a couple of steps away from you.

Rising dp doesn't work. Why? Because its the first friggin response to anyone standing overhead. And nobody has EVER done it to me. That's not coincidence. Go to your arcade, give someone a quarter and set it up. Guy's on ground, he does double rebuken and buffer the fierce rising tackle. At any point, try to sneak a dp in there.

I can't even remember the rest of the garbage you vomited up. You started correcting me after Rock-sama had pointed shit out to me so don't be so f'n redundant. Nobody's ever RC'd their way through this garbage so while you fight me on paper, I still havent seen anyone RC their way through this. And I can tell just by the way you're writing you've never done it or seen it either.

Ppl throw shit out about RC this, RC that. I don't play in tournaments, but I've been watchin the vids that I get offa AIM and the forums and RC isn't the end-all be-all that asses like you make it out to be. Intuition tells me you cant even pull it off half the time to make it evena gamble worth taking with your scrub antics. Congratulate yourself, your the best paper cvs2 player out there. Too bad you keep taking the situation out of context otherwise I might read through half of your garbage without rolling my eyes.

*Let me add one thing here. i thought of soemthing and maybe this is the reason I haven't seen it. Perhaps the holding back on the joystick to block causes the reverse dp to come out a split second too short. The joystick would have to move from either crouching back or back to forward. And since rock's rising tackle comes out of a natural down to up motion without having to travel across the joystick. Dunno. Could explain it. I don't try the rising tackle more than once these days, so its not like ppl can adjust their timing and force out a faster dp from the holding back position. But I think this is streching it. I know MY dp's come out a split-second later when I'm holding the joystick back, like against blanka's consecutive jumping RH's, sometimes I'll attempt the dp and I'll eat a jumpkick, but I can't assume its the same for other ppl.

vasAZNion13

06-28-2003, 01:30 AM

first of all, i'm pretty sure mummy-b has way more experience in this game than you do

rc will probably stop ur trap period like mummy-b said
i dont' use rc because i'm k groove, but i've seen players use rc effectively, and i'm pretty sure and any rc move will beat out the double reppuken part of ur trap

on the subject of the rising tackle out prioritizing dp, who cares, rising tackle, imo sucks...a lot of times, when you do it the opponent will just get knocked off and not take the full damage...

even if he does take full damage, it's so little compared to terry's version and any other dp/anti air moves

and i really dont' think it's hard to jd the double reppuken...
especially if you keep throwing it out, the person playing you will probably get the timing down

i think a better strat than ur rock trap is jab, throw...

Burghy

06-28-2003, 02:45 AM

Hi OneDumbGook.

Have you heard of wakeup reversals?

Huh from your clueless post, probably not. I'd explain but I don't like explaining things to clueless losers like you or god ryu. I mean ok if people are clueless, then that's ok. But then people keep telling you the same thing 15 times and you're like "Oh no you don't understand, blah blah, because I'm really skilled and if I can't get past it then obviously it's great"

So yeah, I'd tell you why you're wrong and stuff but I really don't think you'll listen. So I'll just say this to other people on this thread

"Warning: Listening to this guy is hazardous to your CvS2 skill"

I think that your messages should have at least 15% of the text devoted to a repetition of this warning.

Anyway, I'm just a trying to help a buddy out. We're friends ok Onedumbgook?

Mummy-B

06-28-2003, 03:10 AM

Originally posted by OneDumbG00k
I'll lay it out one more time for you ass so pay attention. Rock is standing above you while you're on the ground. So when he's winding the fireball, the fireball wave motion is initiated on top of you. So don't give me crap about dp'ing through it as if I threw it a couple of steps away from you.

Actually, you're on the something. Standing a couple steps away and throwing it is actually very smart. You might want to think about that.

Rising dp doesn't work. Why? Because its the first friggin response to anyone standing overhead. And nobody has EVER done it to me. That's not coincidence. Go to your arcade, give someone a quarter and set it up. Guy's on ground, he does double rebuken and buffer the fierce rising tackle. At any point, try to sneak a dp in there.

I can DP Rock out of EVERY SINGLE SPECIAL HE HAS. EVERY ONE. FOR FREE.

Stop playing against the computer at Level 4 and you'll eventually see that Rising Tackle has zero invincibility, and has one ground priority hit at the beginning. Whereas, the Shoto DP has very nice invincibility, enough to wake up and go through a Double Reppuken and nail a Rock standing next to him for free. Not quite the invincibility from CvS1, but still enough to get through a fireball.

I can't even remember the rest of the garbage you vomited up. You started correcting me after Rock-sama had pointed shit out to me so don't be so f'n redundant. Nobody's ever RC'd their way through this garbage so while you fight me on paper, I still havent seen anyone RC their way through this. And I can tell just by the way you're writing you've never done it or seen it either.

If no one has RCed through it, then everyone you play sucks as bad as you do. With this trap, I could own you for free with my King. I'd RC Mirage Kick into juggle CC you every time you tried it. And that's with a sucky character. I would annihilate you with someone who's actually worth a damn.

And if more than one person is pointing out the retardation behind your strats, you should start taking a hint.

Ppl throw shit out about RC this, RC that. I don't play in tournaments, but I've been watchin the vids that I get offa AIM and the forums and RC isn't the end-all be-all that asses like you make it out to be. Intuition tells me you cant even pull it off half the time to make it evena gamble worth taking with your scrub antics. Congratulate yourself, your the best paper cvs2 player out there. Too bad you keep taking the situation out of context otherwise I might read through half of your garbage without rolling my eyes.

The context is, you try to trap me with a half assed strat revolving around blockstun that doesn't remain continuous. So I do a forward moving special with 27 frames of invincibility and kick your ass for trying. This is not top level play. This is common sense. If you don't know that a wake up DP or a wake up CC/Super will fuck your strat, then you suck, period. This is the last time I'm going to tell you. If you believe this bullshit works, you suck. My shit works on "paper." Yours doesn't even work on paper. Even if your shit was entirely theory fighter, it STILL has holes. That's pathetic. Somehow, you are trying to be a fucking herb and convince people that I somehow don't know what I'm talking about, when you obviously don't understand invincibility frames, wake up specials, RCs, and priority? Give me a fucking break.

Face it. Your strat works where you are because people you play suck ass. I could get around this in ten counts on the clock, even after I smoked a fat spliff. I know because I've been playing Rock since Beta and I dropped him because he can't win against real players. Everything you've done with him, I've done. And judging from your lack of knowledge of the game engine, I'll go out on a limb and say I've done it better. I've put him in every single Groove in the game. I even learned to Parry just so I could put him in P. And here you are trying to Rising Tackle a Shoto DP in a CAPCOM GAME. wtf? Pit any special against a Shoto DP, done at the same time, and it best it will do is TRADE.

Learn how to play CvS2. Or better yet, quit while you're behind because the game is dying anyway. If you don't know the basics, then you might as well start playing something easier. Try Tetris.

*Let me add one thing here. i thought of soemthing and maybe this is the reason I haven't seen it. Perhaps the holding back on the joystick to block causes the reverse dp to come out a split second too short. The joystick would have to move from either crouching back or back to forward. And since rock's rising tackle comes out of a natural down to up motion without having to travel across the joystick. Dunno. Could explain it. I don't try the rising tackle more than once these days, so its not like ppl can adjust their timing and force out a faster dp from the holding back position. But I think this is streching it. I know MY dp's come out a split-second later when I'm holding the joystick back, like against blanka's consecutive jumping RH's, sometimes I'll attempt the dp and I'll eat a jumpkick, but I can't assume its the same for other ppl.

And if you're eating a jumping roundhouse, you're DPing too EARLY. It's hitting you because your invincibility frames are gone and the hitbox for the roundhouse is in your sprite. DP deeper and you'll clean him out for free.

And unless you're making Rock do Somersault Kicks, Rising Tackle will eat a Blanka j.rh all day.

Maybe instead of running your mouth trying to tell me what I don't know, you should check other threads about Rock to learn a thing or two, and ask why it is that I can think of fifty ways to effectively neutralize your trap off the top of my head.

This isn't theory fighter guy. I've killed Rocks this way and I've died as Rock this way. If you haven't, then... I pray you move somewhere with better comp.

Kyokugen

06-29-2003, 04:52 AM

D00d! Check out this Rock trap!

Knockdown, right? Then stand over them and do the High Crack Counter!

OMG! I beat like 5 people at my local mall using this strat alone! I'm so pimp!

Note: I didn't, it doesn't, and I'm not.

begins

07-01-2003, 11:01 AM

id really hate to sound so n00bish, but you can roman cancel in this game?

ive had it on my DC for like a year almost, and rock is my fav character, but i dont have an instruction booklet so maybe i didnt know you could. is it performed the same as in guilty gear? is there anything on gamefaqs about it?

thanx

begins

07-01-2003, 11:13 AM

Roll Cancel......

its stands for ROLL cancel......

i apologize.

vasAZNion13

07-01-2003, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by begins
Roll Cancel......

its stands for ROLL cancel......

i apologize.

ur funny:p

Burningfist

07-01-2003, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by Mummy-B

If you don't know the basics, then you might as well start playing something easier. Try Tetris.

Man, high level Tetris is hard as shit. Start on Tekken 4.

mindtricks

07-02-2003, 10:09 AM

Originally posted by OneDumbG00k
Ppl throw shit out about RC this, RC that. I don't play in tournaments, but I've been watchin the vids that I get offa AIM and the forums and RC isn't the end-all be-all that asses like you make it out to be. Intuition tells me you cant even pull it off half the time to make it evena gamble worth taking with your scrub antics. Congratulate yourself, your the best paper cvs2 player out there. Too bad you keep taking the situation out of context otherwise I might read through half of your garbage without rolling my eyes.

You don't have to be a tournament player to RC. You don't even need to be tournament calibur to RC. Face it homie, the trap is flawed.
;)

vasAZNion13

07-02-2003, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by OneDumbG00k

Ppl throw shit out about RC this, RC that. I don't play in tournaments, but I've been watchin the vids that I get offa AIM and the forums and RC isn't the end-all be-all that asses like you make it out to be. Intuition tells me you cant even pull it off half the time to make it evena gamble worth taking with your scrub antics. Congratulate yourself, your the best paper cvs2 player out there. Too bad you keep taking the situation out of context otherwise I might read through half of your garbage without rolling my eyes.

about all the people i play against can rc 80-90% of the time they attempt it....

Exodus777

07-10-2003, 11:01 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mummy-B
[B]

he can't win against real players.[/i]

HA HA HA HA HA, that's not true at all quite the contrary I don't know who you are or who you play. Rock can beat a "REAL" player ever heard of Arturo Sanchez I played his 2 months ago in Charlotte N.C. I talked to him about my Counter strats against RC's he said "Yeah....you can counter Roll Cancels,..that should be "Nuff Said". I played him in the tourney he won the first match I won the second and we had a VERY close third.......so take it for what you want Rock can win, if you can't get around someones strats with ??????? charater then YOU can't.....I repeat YOU can't don't be ignorant and say he can't it's that attitude that makes gamers wanna quit playin Rock because it's difficult and yes I also have been playin Rock since Beta "I kinda wish his Shine Knuckle was still Hyper Viper Beam like...lol!!!", believe me when I tell you it's just a game every one has holes fill that hole with a crack counter...."Well Arturo has hardly any holes in his offense....but there are holes...lol!" He's coming down on 7/26 to Charlotte again and I hope I can put on another good show!! Laterz

Oh yeah I see your from Hawaii so I'll let you know if you don't already Arturo is like damn near the top in CvS2 he is like top 10 or something!!! So I think he qualifies as a "Real Player"!

Mummy-B

07-10-2003, 06:15 PM

I know who Arturo is. I played Arturo before. He stayed at my apartment with Ricky, Desmond, and Phi and we all had some fun casuals.

I am from Okinawa, Japan. I am in Hawaii for medical treatment.

Rock doesn't win in tourney settings. Ask Art who he uses to win tournaments. I'll put down a hundred bucks his team doesn't have Rock in it.

Check the brackets for Evo. No Rocks. I think I can count the Rocks on my two hands in pool play.

That is all.

Sabin

07-10-2003, 10:00 PM

Rock sucks.

Well, no, he's decent (if you're japanese anyway,) but he's too hard to win with.

Mummy-B is the fucking truth. Sup bro, I hope you're gonna make a full recovery out there in Hawaii.

exodus don't get too excited, i was messing around with you in tourney when we played. You don't remember how I let you kill me 2nd game by standing there and taunting? And I picked Yun. -_-

NeoXDeath

07-11-2003, 03:18 AM

hey if this doesnt work as some claim, then is tehre anything that will?

Mummy-B

07-11-2003, 05:32 AM

Originally posted by Sabin
Mummy-B is the fucking truth. Sup bro, I hope you're gonna make a full recovery out there in Hawaii.

exodus don't get too excited, i was messing around with you in tourney when we played. You don't remember how I let you kill me 2nd game by standing there and taunting? And I picked Yun. -_-

Thanks. Hope you, Ricky and rest of the crew are doing good, getting that platter and shit. Ricky is all over the place winning money from all kinds of games, jeebus. he's a machine

And :lol: that shit is harsh.

Exodus777

07-11-2003, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by Sabin
Rock sucks.

Well, no, he's decent (if you're japanese anyway,) but he's too hard to win with.

Mummy-B is the fucking truth. Sup bro, I hope you're gonna make a full recovery out there in Hawaii.

exodus don't get too excited, i was messing around with you in tourney when we played. You don't remember how I let you kill me 2nd game by standing there and taunting? And I picked Yun. -_-

Hey it's cool to know that some of the top players check these threads!!!!!!
Hey man what's up Sabin, hmmmm if I can remember correctly you did have Yun but he was your last character Rock was my second, and yes you taunted me to end your match...but bro you had like 13% health left. Hey man I ain't tryin to say nothin besides Rock can win, and yes I think my Rock is pretty solid, but everyone has holes in their offense. I actually can't wait to play you again I believe we had the best matches at that last tourney, that's all I want is good close fights, and believe me we probably will, if you wanna try and shut me down I invite you to try it won't be that easy......but you probably will win because of your past experience all I wanna do is show of to my peeps and play you well. I'll see you at Bursts house before the Charlotte tourney I think I might level up some...hah ha ha !

P.S. was that last team you played one of your better ones??

VaporThrust

07-11-2003, 10:19 AM

Rock is the MAN!!!!!!!!!!!

i was at that tourny and i saw rock kickin major ass. his shit is so pretty and he was owning up on some counters.
but i saw that match and art taunted then lost a close match because i think he wanted to beat exodus bad with a good team but that match was hella close and geese owned up on cammy for real if he wasnt trying that sweep raging storm and went for the bb combo it might of killed off cammy. but for real though art is good as shit and if rock can stand up well(not sagat well)than he has some potential.

Mummy-B

07-11-2003, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by Exodus777

hmmmm if I can remember correctly you did have Yun but he was your last character Rock was my second, and yes you taunted me to end your match...but bro you had like 13% health left. Hey man I ain't tryin to say nothin besides Rock can win, and yes I think my Rock is pretty solid, but everyone has holes in their offense. I actually can't wait to play you again I believe we had the best matches at that last tourney, that's all I want is good close fights, and believe me we probably will, if you wanna try and shut me down I invite you to try it won't be that easy......but you probably will win because of your past experience all I wanna do is show of to my peeps and play you well. I'll see you at Bursts house before the Charlotte tourney I think I might level up some...hah ha ha !

P.S. was that last team you played one of your better ones??

I think you're totally missing the point he is trying to make.

VaporThrust

07-11-2003, 06:05 PM

No I totally got the point, and as a matter of fact it matters not to me. Rock is the best character in CvS2 in MY opinion.

Burghy

07-11-2003, 06:38 PM

Sword to a gunfight.

Mummy-B

07-11-2003, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by VaporThrust
No I totally got the point, and as a matter of fact it matters not to me. Rock is the best character in CvS2 in MY opinion.

Just FYI, I wasn't quoting your post. I have no idea why you thought I was talking to you. I'm not being an asshole or anything, I really mean that I have no idea why you thought that post was directed at you particularly.

VaporThrust

07-11-2003, 07:08 PM

sorry bout that i am a newbie
but really this is a rock thread and i thought there would be some rock supporters. I really think that he is at the top of the middle tier so to speak and in a good enough players hand he can beat a lot of top tier teams.

Rock-sama

07-12-2003, 12:17 AM

Originally posted by VaporThrust
sorry bout that i am a newbie
but really this is a rock thread and i thought there would be some rock supporters. I really think that he is at the top of the middle tier so to speak and in a good enough players hand he can beat a lot of top tier teams.

if u devote enough time, rock can kick ass. i am sorry for not being able to pick 3 sagats to have a perfect team remember when that japanese guy used yun, he beat the shit out of people and yun got more fucked over than rock.

the things rock doesnt have are:

good roll
better pokes
good recovery on hardedge and dunk, and shift, jab rising tackle
higher priority wake up

has only four air attacks and he cant get past a good sagat turtle

i dont see that many bad match ups for rock, compared to say kyo with his shit supers and his obvious mind game but kyo is "better" than rock cuz not enought people use rock. imo rock is one of the top 10 best player.

any groove rock counters a-sak imo c. mp owns cross ups, id like to see sagat hold his own against k-chun. s.rh. c.rh.
the only reason cammy is "better" than rock is because of her dp and pokes but her supers are shit too, blanka cant stop a rushdown very well. anyway this is my opinion, and rock is good but the hill gets steeper with him but then again how much fun do u have sitting there with sagat waiting for a jump in or a c.fierce range. fuck that atleast ill lose with the best character design in the game. hands down top tier. :P

Mummy-B

07-12-2003, 01:21 AM

Originally posted by Rock-sama
if u devote enough time, rock can kick ass. i am sorry for not being able to pick 3 sagats to have a perfect team remember when that japanese guy used yun, he beat the shit out of people and yun got more fucked over than rock.

Yun also has three really really really good RCs. The lunge punch, tbe pimp slap step, and the command grab. Along with a pretty god priority command jump in that can change jump trajectory for mind games and a chain combo, with a 6000+ simple as hell CC, he's actually not that bad off in A Groove.

But it mostly had to do with no one knowing how to play against him, that's was really what Ken's advantage was.

i dont see that many bad match ups for rock, compared to say kyo with his shit supers and his obvious mind game but kyo is "better" than rock cuz not enought people use rock. imo rock is one of the top 10 best player.

No way. Kyo can deal more damage at any point in time in a match than Rock ever could, and has more priority on his moves, AND has a move with autoguard.

You haven't seen a Japanese Kyo. There is no Rock that matches a top tier Kyo. It's not even close.

any groove rock counters a-sak imo c. mp owns cross ups, id like to see sagat hold his own against k-chun. s.rh. c.rh.
the only reason cammy is "better" than rock is because of her dp and pokes but her supers are shit too, blanka cant stop a rushdown very well.

A Sak owns a bunch of non top tier people. And as far as Cammy goes... Her supers are shit? :confused:

Rock-sama

07-12-2003, 10:51 AM

oh i forgot :sweat: rock has no cross-up

bout your kyo being able to deal more damage at any time is kinda going alittle too far but i understand.

anyway, there arent that many ways to get supers in with kyo if u dont have a-groove or c-groove cornering the opp. while u can trip super, evac super, j. hardedge bait shine knuck, jab short mk shine knuck aside from all the things u can do from a evac in the corner with rock. rock has higher priority with j. rh and s. rh, rock stuffs rc with his counters. d.reppuken rc is king.

ive played agaisnt a really good kyo but most of it was j. down fierce, sj. down fierce and his dp is not invincible. i guess until someone uses rock in a tourney and wins, then rock has to stay that big secret.

ya, cammy is just one big s. roundhouse, thats it. her moves get dp ed more and more now that the game is older and her level one anything sucks ex. for vertical super gainst gaurd crush or chip to death which ken can do better anyway.

sorry for not being very clear with grammer and all on the last post.

ummm...... keep rockin' baby.?!? :wtf:
:eek:

Burghy

07-12-2003, 05:38 PM

Maybe Cammy's supers suck if your Cammy cannot land a single close fierce in the whole match. Who the hell tries to psychic DP a Cammy?! That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Well Rock having a corner trap was the dumbest thing I've ever heard but this comes close.

If any Kyo you see doesn't do anything from a cr lk, it's a scrub Kyo and is like sucking and stuff. Because that leads to easy supers, easy dizzy, and things like that.

The problem with Rock's supers is that it's really really easy to land a level 3 if your opponent has not played many Rocks. So you may have success with him once or twice, but it doesn't take that much before he figures out that mashing jab stops all rage run/throw things.

artoflife

07-12-2003, 07:15 PM

IMO a rock is only as good as the mind controlling it
if you can really play superb mind games and not get pushed out and out turtled by sagat type charac(tiers) then i guess its justifiable using rock but if u gonna wanna out speed or out pioritse them its way out of the question
there's no way a rock would win in top level play cos people have seen all the rock tricks before

Mummy-B

07-12-2003, 08:30 PM

Originally posted by Rock-sama
oh i forgot :sweat: rock has no cross-up

bout your kyo being able to deal more damage at any time is kinda going alittle too far but i understand.

anyway, there arent that many ways to get supers in with kyo if u dont have a-groove or c-groove cornering the opp. while u can trip super, evac super, j. hardedge bait shine knuck, jab short mk shine knuck aside from all the things u can do from a evac in the corner with rock. rock has higher priority with j. rh and s. rh, rock stuffs rc with his counters. d.reppuken rc is king.

The best B&B Rock's got is two lights link a crouch mk into a hard edge. That doesn't even connect all the time, especially from a jump in if you're not close enough, so to be safe I'd say <insert jump in> -> c.mk XX fp Hard Edge is the one combo that gaurantees connection.

Kyo is like... fuck. Cross up lk, medium, medium, aragami three hit chain. Cross up, fierce, fierce chain. Anything jump in, two shorts, double kick juggle time. Far stand fk, buffer any level flame super. Anything that links or buffers is like a free combo. It's unreal. In the time that Rock builds meter to land a super, Kyo's done enough damage to match the super that Rock would land AND he's built up the meter for the super. And yeah, Kyo's DP is no Shoto DP, but it's a better wake up and anti-air than anything Rock has outside of stand fk (you can't wake up with that anyway).

And the hitbox on his cross up is unreal. On top of that, the double fist-fuck (d+fp) has priority like like a platinum frequent flyer. Short hopping with that move is so fucked that it's stupid.

anyway thats kyo for you.

Rock-sama

07-13-2003, 12:14 AM

Originally posted by Burghy
Maybe Cammy's supers suck if your Cammy cannot land a single close fierce in the whole match. Who the hell tries to psychic DP a Cammy?! That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Well Rock having a corner trap was the dumbest thing I've ever heard but this comes close.

im just trying to justify my character u dont have to fucken shit your pants.
so what do u do 'gainst cammy then? let her c.mk, standing whatever you all day? and who the fuck said anything bout physic dp? reaction thats all it is, mr top tier. my cammy cant land shit cuz i dont use cammy. :P and her tired ass moves. go cbs ur local tourneys and come back and tell me how u did.

Originally posted by Burghy

The problem with Rock's supers is that it's really really easy to land a level 3 if your opponent has not played many Rocks. So you may have success with him once or twice, but it doesn't take that much before he figures out that mashing jab stops all rage run/throw things.

come on. who doesnt have faults? if i ever played u, id evac toss ur ass, u can jab all u want but the point of using the shift is surprise/mix-up. keep jabbing buddy. ever gotten evac'ed after a dash? c.short *block* evac. ^_^

who should i use then? kyo's j.rh is horrible, cbs? a-sak, a-bison? is that it? vega and balrog? im running out of top tiers here....

putting all bullshit aside. i know my character's faults but i choose to use rock cuz i can see potential and i use it.

and all that kyo stuff from mummy-b.... ya ive seen it but kyo has some faults too maybe not as bad as rock but see, u can have fun with kyo, enjoy the game and shit ya know, well i choose to enjoy it with rock and i can list some bad ass shit with rock cuz he has it. i dont understand how rock can be THAT bad if i can win with him. maybe ill c-groove sagat, rock, kyo to the top of evo, trade in my n-groove.......

Burghy

07-14-2003, 05:05 AM

I see I am talking to someone who can DP cammy's st roundhouse/forward/fierce on reaction. So, I will admit that you are right and shut up now. My scrubby tactics cannot compare to your super skills.

Oh yeah, I do use K-CBS at this local tourney place. You've probably never heard of it though, it's just some tiny arcade that no one knows. Yeah. ok. You win. The people there only do scrubby things like roll super to win anyway! Stupid C-Bison/Blanka/Sagat...

Anyway, I think Kyo is also overrated, but he's definitely better than Rock. Maybe there's some super RC Rock that does RC 360 throws or something like that, though, and then you'd be right

Rock-sama

07-14-2003, 05:48 PM

:depress:

......dammit i thought i made a friend......

Mummy-B

07-15-2003, 12:36 AM

Originally posted by Burghy
Anyway, I think Kyo is also overrated, but he's definitely better than Rock.

meh, I don't think he's THAT overrated. I mean you never hear anyoen really talking about any killer Kyos except once in a blue moon.

caliagent#3

07-30-2003, 04:58 PM

In no way is rock close to kyo in tier ranking. Kyo's moves do way more stun, damage, and have a hell of a lot more priority than rocks. And kyo has the probably the best mixup game in cvs. He can do aragami chain, end after 2 hits c.lk qcf+lk then when he gets u on the ground u r basically hopless. Rock is just to damn hard to win with, he really doesn't have anything to make him a top contender. the only thing he really has is rc'd jab shine knuckle

UCRJesse

07-30-2003, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by caliagent#3
In no way is rock close to kyo in tier ranking. Kyo's moves do way more stun, damage, and have a hell of a lot more priority than rocks. And kyo has the probably the best mixup game in cvs. He can do aragami chain, end after 2 hits c.lk qcf+lk then when he gets u on the ground u r basically hopless. Rock is just to damn hard to win with, he really doesn't have anything to make him a top contender. the only thing he really has is rc'd jab shine knuckle

learn how to play cvs2 rock... then come back here and post

Venturi00

08-06-2003, 11:12 AM

Im not reading the whole thead....this trap isnt good enough for you to maintain it the entire match. Especially versus people with excellent reversals. You mistime something you are the screwed. Its good to throw this out once in a while.

TaekwonV

08-06-2003, 10:13 PM

This is an interesting thread....
I guess in arcade/tourney settings... this trap isn't very effective

HOWEVER, CVS2 on Xbox live is a different story

The Rock trap will own any player regardless of skill, character, groove etc...

Once you start it, you don't just keep doing the fucking rising tackle.. (Unless its a retarded n00b) Rocks corner mix up game is better than anyone else's in the game...PERIOD

The reason is, its always gonna be 50/50 chance you'll get him.... however once you do catch him, its over~
I thought the invincibility on the FP rising tackle was good, but ill take Mummys words for it... however, most players will try throwing, poking, sweeping etc rather than throw a dragon punch... why???

Because, Rock can do a phase shift into command throw into a lvl 3 super for free :)

Due to this, most people will not risk throwing out the dragon punch, resulting in punishment by the rising tackle..

From here on its a guessing game.. but i always make the right decision

So it goes something like this (Scenario 1)

- Get him into corner
- Throw FP reppuken
- Rising Tackle

then

- Throw reppuken
- Phase shift into throw
- Sweep if u can connect...

- Throw reppuken
- Just walk up and throw their ass
This works cuz at this point they're too afraid to do anything

On good players, they'll realize this trap so... in the beginning
ill bust out a phase shift instead of rising tackle

It all depends on reading the player, but most of the time OWNAGE will occur :D

I don't care what anyone says... ive beaten everyone online with this strat, and it never fails...
I know most of you think Live is garbage.. but it really isn't..
with the exclusion of RC's and inclusion of Supercanceling for P-Groove, the game is more balanced than the arcade version... Lag is rarely a factor

Just my two cents... laterzz

caliagent#3

08-12-2003, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by TaekwonV
This is an interesting thread....
I guess in arcade/tourney settings... this trap isn't very effective

HOWEVER, CVS2 on Xbox live is a different story

The Rock trap will own any player regardless of skill, character, groove etc...

Once you start it, you don't just keep doing the fucking rising tackle.. (Unless its a retarded n00b) Rocks corner mix up game is better than anyone else's in the game...PERIOD

The reason is, its always gonna be 50/50 chance you'll get him.... however once you do catch him, its over~
I thought the invincibility on the FP rising tackle was good, but ill take Mummys words for it... however, most players will try throwing, poking, sweeping etc rather than throw a dragon punch... why???

Because, Rock can do a phase shift into command throw into a lvl 3 super for free :)

Due to this, most people will not risk throwing out the dragon punch, resulting in punishment by the rising tackle..

From here on its a guessing game.. but i always make the right decision

So it goes something like this (Scenario 1)

- Get him into corner
- Throw FP reppuken
- Rising Tackle

then

- Throw reppuken
- Phase shift into throw
- Sweep if u can connect...

- Throw reppuken
- Just walk up and throw their ass
This works cuz at this point they're too afraid to do anything

On good players, they'll realize this trap so... in the beginning
ill bust out a phase shift instead of rising tackle

It all depends on reading the player, but most of the time OWNAGE will occur :D

I don't care what anyone says... ive beaten everyone online with this strat, and it never fails...
I know most of you think Live is garbage.. but it really isn't..
with the exclusion of RC's and inclusion of Supercanceling for P-Groove, the game is more balanced than the arcade version... Lag is rarely a factor

Just my two cents... laterzz

Rock online is most definitely a different story. His trap works really well online becuase of the slight delay, and it's hard to pull off wake up reversals.

Rock-sama

02-26-2004, 08:39 PM

ignore all that xbox live garbage and just read teh first couple of pages mr. aznation...? or watever

i think all you rock players from south cali should meet up at cal poly one day for a few hrs to put words into practice and maybe we will all get better......

Hellion

02-29-2004, 04:15 PM

I never tried this before, and up to this point haven't dared to because the first time I used K- Rock a year ago I somehow manage to knock my brother down, run up to him and double reppuken. It's a funny laugh watchin the guy get struck twice when he wakes up, but you're stuck in recovery and before you know it it's s.lp x 3 and rekkas.

I do notice that when I land a sweep and throw a reppuken, the opponent would get up as the tail end of the fireball is passing 'bout halfway through his sprite or a little more and he either gets hit or blocks.

Around that time a year ago whenever my brother'd try to RC me, Rock's lvl3's beat them out usually, but that's due to the supers invicibility right? I've never seen him actually RC on wakeup in the middle of a Raising Storm before, much less roll.

Is it too much of a stretch to think then that throwing double reppukens early on after a knockdown in the corner, with you right on top of the opponent basically (however risky it is), not simply before he wakes up, but that when he does get up the tail end of the second reppuken gets him, is it possible for him to be locked in hitstun or blockstun enough for Rock to finish the recovery for the double reppuken and actually do something?

I've seen weird things in this game work before.
Try knocking an opponent down with Athena, and dp them early on when they would be able to reversal dp you. I've never had it done to me before. This is not abusable of course, but it works.