CVS2 : Todo Galore

[Rokiseph]

Ryuhaku Todo...
Has Long hair...
Wears a Skirt...

Important Moves.
1. C.HP : A very good high Priority AA. Strong Too. Beats most Normal Aerial moves.

2. Light Kasane Ate : B&B with light Kasane Ate. Recovers fast, cancels fireballs.

3. Medium and Heavy Kasane Ate : Choose which to hit opponents jiggling the stick, to hit jumping opponents. To hit Opponents you just AA out of the Air, they may block of course, but a few dots off their life bar doesn't hurt, for you. TO hit fireballers from afar, especially Sagat :p

4. Command Grab (Not called a Tatsumakisouda) : B&B. Run and grab, Run and grab for a vacuum cleaner effect.

5. DF MK : Distance well, and you hit with the Tip of your foot, or sweep someone just as he lands from a jump. Time well, and you'll hit a Fireballer just as you catch their feet.

6. S.MP : Fast Poke. To use when Running into someone. Then do it again.

7. Cho Kasane Ate : Only the Level 3 is Full screen and invincible at Start up. However if you are playing C-Groove, it would be better to do Level 2 and taunt at thr 6th hit for another few hits, This way you save a Bar. BUT, level 3 moves so fast, it hits opponents halfway across the screen jumping upwards.

Strategies
1. Kasane Ate from a reasonable distance until opponent wants to come close. Then Go close range and throw MPs. Important thing is to Command Throw the guy. Once that starts, you have many options...

a. Go into your B&B of C.MP -> Light Kasane Ate
b. Walk forward, do a light punch, then Command throw again.
c. Straight away do your Cho Kasane Ate.

2. In Corners, C.MP -> Light Kasane Ate -> Standing MP

3. People playing against Todo usually try to cross him up more because of his inability to reliably retaliate. In which case, you learn to Run Forwards and then do an attack. Most people have a if I don't block i will get hit Phobia, but actually if you run away you'll be quite safe.

4. His Air Kasane Ate can hit people who are standing. So you can do a jump into a Kasane Ate to pressure them (Tiger Knee Kasane Ate) Or Jump and Kasane Ate, which means that if they did an AA, they'd get hit.

Hmmmm, what to say but stay careful.

Anybody have problems using Todo? Someone here could help...

[Shin Yamazaki]

Hey, after command grab, you should do c.fierce into L.3 cho kasane ate, never misses. But don't do it near the corner, 'cause you'll only get around half the damage that the L.3 cho kasan dishes out...

[Rokiseph]

Ahh, EDAW

Extra Damage Always Welcome!!!

I never tried that before!!! Wow, I always thought that at most it was Command grab -> C.MP -> C.Kasan.

Okay Guys

Also, LP -> LK -> Cho.Kasan Works too.

And you know how his counter goes, Do in Between Patterns

Like Sagat's clk, clk, cmk, Ground tiger shot. Do your Kuzu Otoshi between the clk and cmk. Pfwing Grab, Throw, Belly Punch, Fan Pointy Thingy.

[Rokiseph]

Here it is, for someone who asked.

[Rolling Start]

Here what is?

Oh yeah, and Todo rules in s-groove in critical life. Do super wave, super wave, super wave, until they get kinda close, then stand and charge. If they jump in, watch and super wave if it's an empty jump, or counter if they telegraph any attack. Don't do super waves random though, cause they'll roll right through and toss you. Oh yeah, and follow up every super counter with a super wave, cause it'll do block damage and push them to other side of the screen.

As seen in Mr.Mem's latest Combo vid, the DP+P can hit tall characters on the ground. This isn't that useful, but still...

Oh yeah, and todo beats fireball-happy sagat players. Fierce wave for low tigers, f+mk for high ones. Just watch out for all pokes/specials/supers, lol

[Rokiseph]

Oh yeahhh

I forgot about this combo...

Opponent at Corner :

Light Kasane Ate -> S.MP -> Light Kasane Ate

For 7 hits.

Can someone confirm if another S.MP into a Cho Kasane Ate would hit? or even just another S.MP after that resulting in 8 hits?

[onionkid]

Before I say anything, for people who are just skimming through...

J.SHORT has insane priority. Keeps people cornered and doubles as a crossup. It's mullet madness!

Although most will agree that Todo's strongest groove is A, he's a pretty solid character in any groove, especially those with run.

When the round starts with Todo, I have two things on my mind. Building meter and corner lockdown.

The meter comes easily, as his waves (QFC+P) build a shitload. The corner lockdown is where the real fun begins.

Cornering your opponent with Todo is trickier than it is with say...Kyo or Cammy, the God and Goddess of cornering respectively - So I'm really not going to flatter myself in thinking that my technique is anything that other people don't already know. Just j.shorts into chains ending with waves, and command grab into the normal of your choice into wave super. Luckily, the wave super really gives your opponent a ride accross the screen and does the work for you.

Fortunately, keeping your opponent cornered is easier than getting them there. I typically start with a low forward into jab wave. After this, your best bet is to either do another wave (or poke(s) into wave) or jump in with an early short. The wave should stuff most ground retaliations and do chip & guard damage if they decide to keep blocking, while the short will beat anything they decide to stick out, be it aerial or grounded, save Honda's jab fucking headbutt...

If you decided to do another wave, try to get back in the corner with an sj.short, roll, run jabs, or good old Toward+Forward slide kick.

If you did a j.short, either go for a ticked command grab, or do another pressure string. Something in the vein of c.jab, c.short, c.forward, wave and continue.

If they rolled your j.short, they've made it out of the corner, but if you can catch them during vulnerability frames with a Lvl3 wave, they're well on their way into the opposite corner. That's what you get for underestimating a character who looks like a roadie for Journey. Bitch.

That's basically the skeletal Todo cornering game. The key is in mixing it up while anticipating and understanding SF tendancies. Old-schoolers familiar with Sonic Boom and Fireball-Dragon Punch traps should know exactly what I'm talking about. You're obviously going to have to use more than just that to remain unpredictable (Tiger Knee Air Waves and Lvl 1 Counter Supers), but I hopefully explained the general theory behind it.

-rich.

[Geronimo]

Can someone give me some painful Todo CC's?

Thanks.

- Geronimo

[onionkid]

I just do...

--Ground CC--

Command Grab, Activate, [S.Fierce, C.Fierce] x 9 or until cornered, Jab Wave xx [Strong Wave] x n, super.

The reason for the first wave being the jab version is because its easier to combo it after the fierce.

I know for a fact that there are more damaging CCs than this, like the custom at Gunter's site for example, but I can't do that one reliably enough.

For his Anti Air CC, I just activate through their jumpin into the Command Grab and continue the combo normally.

-rich.

[GeekBoy]

Originally posted by Geronimo
Can someone give me some painful Todo CC's?

Thanks.

- Geronimo

Tragic does: Command grab, activate, s.Fierce x2, c.Fierce, [s.Fierce, Jab Wave] xN, Super at the end, does like 9000+ if you do it corner to corner.

[Geronimo]

Thanks guys. Hey Geekboy, I tried something like that, but I kept getting too far after the 2nd set of s.hp XX Jab wave, can you help me out?

Thanks again.

- Geronimo

[GeekBoy]

Originally posted by Geronimo
Thanks guys. Hey Geekboy, I tried something like that, but I kept getting too far after the 2nd set of s.hp XX Jab wave, can you help me out?

Thanks again.

- Geronimo

Make sure you're doing the s.Fierce, Jab wave part really fast, kinda like a 2 in 1

[onionkid]

Goddamn that CC is nasty.

-rich.

[Thaininja]

i just started using todo and its tough and i can't seem to get him to work....

dp+p i dont see how it can hit a standing person or were you talking about jumping qcf + p?

And i think command throw into a super is nice but you have to be full screen and not in the corner or it wont hurt....

and i dont see how doing mutiple qcf p against someone with a roll will work....i guess i have to use it in a non beat matter and be unpredicatble or something...

[Ubersaurus]

How should Todo go about fighting Vega?

[Thaininja]

Originally posted by Ubersaurus
How should Todo go about fighting Vega?

i think the only good characters in fighting vega are people with a good normal anti air, ex vice, eagle, ryu....

[GeekBoy]

Originally posted by Ubersaurus
How should Todo go about fighting Vega?

If your Vega is jump happy, you can nail him pretty easily with tiger kneed waves, varying the heights, high if he's doing that one air claw thing (the thing where he dives at you hella fast from the wall) and low for jump ins and that b,f+p move. Don't really give into his turtling, really take advantage of Todo's anti air options and if you can RC his command grab, do so and you'll get a free AA custom.

[bizounce]

Todo also have 2 links. cr.jab links into cr. strong, and cr. jab into cr. forward.

[Rokiseph]

I'm assuming Vega as in the Clawed Dude.

Actually depends, what ratio is your Todo at and what Ratio is the Vega at? Whats your groove and whats his groove?

Anyway. You can still try for his C.HP Anti-Air at Jumping Vegas, except your timing will have to be tight because of the speed of Vega's Descent. Too early and he'll kick you. Too late and he'll kick you. Just nice and you'll pop him one in the groin.

Turtling Vegas are, what? ...NOTHING. You have the Psychological advantage of the Kasane Ate. Too bad we aren't talking about K-Groove Todo here or else it's a simple jump in and JD anyway into a Grab (if he flip kicks too early) or J.HK. But basically, it's you threatening to do your Kasane Ate, so you fake the move a few times, and throw in some real one's here and there. If he tries to poke you out of range, train to determine when his poke gets out of range and throw in a Light Kasane ate. Or you could jump in anyway, and do the air kasane Ate just before you reach him, if he goes for the flip he'll get hit. If he doesn't, then it's his loss.

One important thing when fighting Vega is the, hmmm, I'll use smoothness for lack of a better word, of the game. What I mean is, if Todo doesn't give Vega to stop and take a breath to store his FLips, Izuna Drops, Rolls or anything else, basically he's left with his Rolls, Hops, Runs Jumps and Pokes. Vega can't RC into anything unless he stores it, so whats he gonna do? Turtle? Jump at you? Roll...right into your command grab? So after some practice you'll be able to learn when to immediately jump toward a Vega that juuuussssttt started to Charge his Flip Kick or JUuuuussstt started to turtle, so that you'll force him to eat some of your moves, bocked or not. He may try to jump away but that just resets the match a bit. Until he reaches the corner...then...heh heh heh.

Again I gotta stress the AA portion of the Game. 3 Things happen
1. You hit him
2. He hits you
3. You trade blows.

I can't exactly remember about number 3 but for 1 and 3, you ALWAYS have the additional option of the attack.

You see, after you hit him out of the air, immediately do
1. a Light Kasane Ate, so that he will be forced to block it when he lands, or get hit.

or you can alternatively pause and then
2. a run into a command grab when he starts to wise up and think he can roll through a possible kasane Ate.

of course there's always
3. Run forward and do your Command grab anyway because he thinks nothings gonna happen he just turtles there for a while.

I know i make it sound simple, but hey, they're just options. Usually I go for Number 1, because if you time it nicely, you recover before he rolls into you, and you can grab him first. Really, no kidding. Don't do this to Kim or Iori though. You should know why. Their rolls are practically teleports. Vega's rolls seem like...uhhh...well.. Vega's rolls. Quite long really.

Ok here's a problem that I used to face until the obvious hit me (or didn't) If you're stuck in the corner and Vega jumps at you, it's harder to AA him because he relies on the corner wall to 'Verticalise' his jump and kick you, making you almost impossible to AA him nicely. WHAT DO YOU DO??????

Run forward when you see the jump, then throw/grab/punch/combo him as he lands. It's always that Phobia of running into a crossover that makes you stay there blocking, but do it anyway. Unless you're so sure he'll J.HP you instead of J.HK Just DO It. Even the J.HP isn't that effective in the corner. Vega's jump descent is too steep to make his Crossover's as scary as Ken's J.MK.

I won't bother with combos and whatevers, or obvious stuff like 'Punch him when he's open!' so...

In order of Importance
1. Learn how to AA Vega, and the continuation of it.
2. Learn how to Psycho a Turtling Vega.
3. Rush that Shit down when you have the two above set and he's cowering like a fool.

To many people Vega may be higher tier, but Todo is a steady guy that just doesn't give a damn.

[SaiYuk]

Originally posted by Rokiseph
Turtling Vegas are, what? ...NOTHING.

have you ever played an actually GOOD turtling vega? i'm not one, but i sure have seen a couple. ricky ortiz to name one. i don't know if you'll say this sentence again after seeing that.

[Rokiseph]

Lol Mr Fong

Aww come on read the sentence again and you'd realise what I said wasn't what you thought I meant. Seeing that this is a Todo VS Vega, it's only applicable to Todo VS Vega.

Cheers man. You know how we spice up strats with some extreme words.

Or maybe I'll just rephrase that sentence, this way :
"Turtling Vegas are, what? ...NOTHING against a zoning Todo"

Howz that :)

[nakedjackson]

How is that? Do your zoning methods for the todo monster differ from those that were already posted? if so, please elaborate

[Rokiseph]

It's been a while since I updated Todo tactics, so here's some new ones that some of you may have never tried

1. B&B in the Corner : Command Grab -> Light Kasane Ate -> S.MP -> Light Kasane Ate

Does a reasonable amount of Dizzy and Does over 4000 points of Damage.

2. Command Grab -> Light Kasane Ate -> Cho Kasane Ate

Yes it connects if you do it fast enough. But Why would you do it? I dunno, extra Combo Points?

3. Messed Around with Todo more and found that ending with B&B in corner during Custom Combo does more. (3000 + I think)

Corner Grab -> PING -> C.HP *3 -> S.HP -> C.HP -> Light Kasane Ate X * -> S.HP into another Command grab (Just as the Meter Finishes) -> Light Kasane Ate -> S.MP -> Light Kasane Ate.

Why C.HP 3 times? because it's the fastest that you can press without having to fear about messing up. His S.HP needs timing most times because if it changes from his Head Chop to his Chin Push too fast, it will miss, so these attacks are there because they will hit 100% of the time as they are already properly distanced.

I can't remember how much this does, but if you Hit the guy a few times before the CC, then this CC Follow Up will Dizzy him as it ends with normal moves. ( One MP and Two Kasane Ates Do a lot of Dizzy)

4. Tactics that Actually Work if you dare to do it.
B&B into a Run Into another B&B

As in, Command Grab -> C.MP-> Light Kasane Ate -> RUN -> Command Grab -> C.MP -> Light Kasane Ate.

If you mess with Todo more, you'll realise that His B&B doesn't really push the other guy that far back, and that when you run over, it's not a very far run either. Added to the point that his Light Kasane Ate recovers really fast, he can just go over quick.
The fact that his B&B doesn't topple the other Guy over helps to this strategy. So make use of it. Remember, not corner only.

I'll come back with the details another day, I'll have to find a friend with a Home console first so I can find out how much damage the CC does exactly.

And : Setting up into his Air Kasane Ate

Once you reach the Corner during a CC, Grab him and Tiger Knee into his Air Kasane Ate. You might have to use the Medium one in case you're not near enough, but anyway, just do it as fast as you can and break most of his guard.

The only Way I can Connect from the Ground Grab to an air attack is if I jump and press Lp, which actually does connect, but I haven't had the chance to test if anything else could be done to connect this into an Air Kasane Ate, can someone who has a home console help to confirm this?

[nakedjackson]

Normal air kasane ates can be comboed in an air to air situation. Its happens sparsely, but j.jab or j.short into j.kasane ate works. (That was referring to N-groove). I don't know how useful it is. but for air to air, it looks pretty cool. plus j.shorts priority+combo oppurtunity is pretty cool.

[erco]

not sure if it has been posted, but if you sweep xx wave super during a cc, it ends up doing more damage since they get carried by the wave instead of having it pass through them.

[Rokiseph]

Yeah Air to Air Links Works, just like Ryu's Lk into Tatsumaki or Gouki's one, howver, Todo's one doesn't count as a Combo :(

Well

Just another Update since this is up

Some of you probably saw this in a Vid somewhere, but I remembred it afer messing around with Todo again..

In Corner
Tiger Knee Light KasaneAte, Drop into C.MP into L.kasane Ate into another MP. Thats it. You can combo into a Super but that's just a waste of a bar, unless it kills the opponent of course.

[caliagent#3]

u guys forgot todo's best move . . . his forward+mk, it catches a lot of people of guard

[FluffyXXL]

Originally posted by Rokiseph
Yeah Air to Air Links Works, just like Ryu's Lk into Tatsumaki or Gouki's one, howver, Todo's one doesn't count as a Combo :(

Well

Just another Update since this is up

Some of you probably saw this in a Vid somewhere, but I remembred it afer messing around with Todo again..

In Corner
Tiger Knee Light KasaneAte, Drop into C.MP into L.kasane Ate into another MP. Thats it. You can combo into a Super but that's just a waste of a bar, unless it kills the opponent of course.

If you've got skillz, you can activate a custom before the last MP and do some mad damage A-groove combos.

[Dnut]

Sup fluff, Im the one at chabot who uses Mai a lot.

Anyways i was using Todo fighting against a guy using Chang. When Chang sends out Choi(midget kreuger) to attack, i wondered what would happen if Todo did the counter super to choi. It turns out that counter wouldnt work at all and that choi would still be able to hit Todo. Its prolly the same thing for geese's counters.

I guess Choi counts as a projectile instead of an actual person. It would of been sick thought if Todo had picked up little choi and slammed him onto the ground.....:lol:

[Rick Fn Stalvey]

Thanks just got the new Todu CC down thats GeekBoy!!! and thanx to all of u and ur startz. I use todo in A groove for fun, or takin a break for the tiers.

[Sodom]

Agreed on the F + MK. Great poke!

I suck a A groove but he really rocks in it. I'm a one trick pony.. using the CC as anti-air and doing grab after grab. This is the simple alternative to RCing.

[FluffyXXL]

Originally posted by Dnut
Sup fluff, Im the one at chabot who uses Mai a lot.

Anyways i was using Todo fighting against a guy using Chang. When Chang sends out Choi(midget kreuger) to attack, i wondered what would happen if Todo did the counter super to choi. It turns out that counter wouldnt work at all and that choi would still be able to hit Todo. Its prolly the same thing for geese's counters.

I guess Choi counts as a projectile instead of an actual person. It would of been sick thought if Todo had picked up little choi and slammed him onto the ground.....:lol:

Yeah, Choi is considered a projectile, not a person. So, Todo's counter won't work. A regular wave would have hit him though.

By the way, "the guy at chabot that uses Mai" is not that great a description, considering there's three people that I can think of that use Mai that play at Chabot. I'm pretty easy to identify.

[Rokiseph]

Sigh, no matter what I try, the Cancel Special into Super benefits Todo much only when you do your Cho Kasane Ate after your B&B.

I mean, for the new P-Groove addition.

Other than that, it helps when you do the AA Kasane Ate, then Follow up with the Super. But...how often does one land that? The AA Kasane Ate I mean?

[kcxj]

I just finished reading this thread (even though it's been around for a while). The info posted here is teh sheit. Good job *thumbs up*. I learned a lot of new info.

c.MP can link to c.HP xx level 3 wave for those who don't know btw.

[popoblo]

anyone have any vids of a good A-todo?

[Phorest]

Wears a Skirt...

One more person calls it this and I swear I'm gonna kill somebody.

Its called a HAKAMA. Used by ancient SAMURAI. It was designed so that the wearer appears to float as they walk. It also hides your footwork as you attack someone.

I should know...I wear one like...every couple of days going to Iaido (yes, thats what Hibiki does :P) and Kendo practice.

[kcxj]

Originally posted by Phorest


One more person calls it this and I swear I'm gonna kill somebody.

Its called a HAKAMA. Used by ancient SAMURAI. It was designed so that the wearer appears to float as they walk. It also hides your footwork as you attack someone.

I should know...I wear one like...every couple of days going to Iaido (yes, thats what Hibiki does :P) and Kendo practice.

hahaha... you wear a skirt.

Please don't beat me with your wooden stick though.. I'm fragile in real life.

[Phorest]

Heh heh. I wouldn't want to do that!
And it isn't a wooden stick...its called a shinai and its made out of bamboo...*sniffle* :(

[Rokiseph]

Lol

Ok, Todo wears a Hakama (Which from very far away looks like skirt when he's running)

Hakamas sure looked better worn in movies like Ran.

And don't hit me too because, uhh, I don't wanna get hit(?)

Men! Tsuki! Men!!!!

[Phorest]

Put on some bogu and we'll have a real "round" of fighting. :D

[Shocky]

Command Grab, c.Fierce canceled into Ultimate Ecstacy Crush. Does around 9255 damage from one ratio 2 to another.

A quick question: do the different punch strengths of the command grab make a difference?

[popoblo]

-wow, todo rocks. i thought he was a joke character, but he's definitely going into my A-groove team now (it looks like i'll need a new avatar:lol: )

-but anyway, here's another ghetto CC, if for some reason you can't hit his standing fp xx lp wave CC...

activate CC, command grab x8/9, standing fp, super.

-from my R2 todo to a R2 kyo, it did 6344 damage. not too shabby. of course you can also just wait until the bar ends, and cr mp xx wave, or whatever combo you do after a grab. and try to input the grab command right after you hit him with your fist. that's how you can get so many throws in there. and if you accidentally do it too quick and whiff, do it again. the other character is stunned for a long time remember, allowing for you to just grab him again.

-his dash is excellent also. he can hop over downed bodies, which sets up even more chances for his command grab. sometimes you can command grab, do cr mp xx wave, then hop and do it again. the wave distances them perfectly to do it again.

here's some questions i have...

-what are some of his good pokes up close? yes forward + mk is good from a long distance away, but waves can get predictable up close.

-what are some of the better ways to set up his command grab? I do...

*jump in with short, command grab

*dash, command grab

*tick into command grab

*empty jump into command grab

what are some other good ways?

-what is his most damaging non super/CC combo after his command grab?

-and i'm having some trouble hitting the corner combo where you do command grab, lp wave, standing mp, lp wave. what is the timing on when you should hit his standing mp between his lp waves?

-what are his anti-air options on a crossup? does he have any?

thanks.

EDIT- the most consistent way i've found to hit his CC is do the command grab, (activate), cr hp x3, lp wave, [standing hp, lp wave]xN, super.

[Shocky]

His strongest non-meter consuming combo out of the command grab is c.Strong, j.Wave. But you could always be adventurous and after the command grab, run forward and command grab again.

c.Strong, j.Wave is hard for me to do. For whatever reason it rarely combos. Maybe because I'm just slow. In the place of c.Strong I use c.Forward, but it dishes out little less damage.

[crono_marle]

Great information. This thread is really going to help my todo game greatly.

Great job guys!!!!:D

[Rokiseph]

At Last!!!

My Computer Works!!!!

Time for some more Info Guys

If you have a Bar
And you are in the Corner
And you don't want to waste it (Say, you are in S or K Groove. Or N for that matter)
And you can't do the Corner B&B (And don't want to Try)
And it's a Big Character you're Facing (Eg Sagat, Zangief etc)

Here's what you can do!!!!

Command grab -> C.MK -> C.MK -> Cho Kasane Ate.

Hey The Cho Kasane Ate hits for 4 hits, so it's not too bad.

And I recently found one one BAD thing for Todo. He's not 100 % Covered when he does his Super Counter.

SURPRISE!!! it's true. I've only been hit TWICE out of it in my life.

BOTH on the same day
BOTH by the Same Ryu
Both when for some inexplicable reason he actually did a VERY deep Crossup , such that he hit me below my back RIGHT AFTER my Counter Flashed.

I got Hit.

I screamed (in a noisy arcade it's ok)
People around me were shocked.

After he lost, he put in his credit.
He did it again.

BOTH times I betcha he didn't plan for it. It's like one in a Zillion odds I tell you.

But it doesn't seem to work for any other character I know though.


Ok To answer some stuff

-what are some of his good pokes up close? yes forward + mk is good from a long distance away, but waves can get predictable up close.

S.MP is fast and high
C.MP is Low and Meaty
Both Connect to Wave so it's just nice

-and i'm having some trouble hitting the corner combo where you do command grab, lp wave, standing mp, lp wave. what is the timing on when you should hit his standing mp between his lp waves?

You should train to do it the instant he recovers. There is no way for me to describe how it looks like, so just practice.

-what are his anti-air options on a crossup? does he have any?
None Whatsoever that I know of.

And a Word of Advice to all Todo players

NEVER do a Super at the end of your CC, it's MUCH less damage thanm C.MP + Wave
Just try to end your CC with a Command Grab then C.MP then Wave if you're not in the Corner. If you are, do your Corner B&B.

If you got it down pat, you can do the Command Grab such that the portion that he hits with it is OUTSIDE of the CC, which is so much the better for you.

3300 Damage is better than 1600 Damage ANYTIME. It's not easier said than done. It's very doable.

Also, for people who can't yet do the Mid Screen S.hp into L.Wave
You can do a easy version where you do Two S.Hps into one wave instead. It makes you travel faster too.

For A-Groove users, remember though there is a good reason to use the two punch version instead. If you are already Half a screen away, do the two hit version because you want to reach the corner faster. S.Hp into Wave may be damaging now but it doesn't get you into the corner in record time to do the repeat ones. The Aim for all Todo Ccers should be to
1. Assess if you're getting near the corner
2. Do the Type of combo accordingly.

A Normal Todo CC should Always be above 9000+ Damage.

[popoblo]

what is the ideal number of fierces at the beginning of the CC that set up the waves and still get good damage before the hit count goes to hell?

[Rokiseph]

Before I begin, let me say that I have done some researching, and that Damage Scaling Applies for Todo's End of CC Command Grab if it hits OUTSIDE of the CC. It can Vary from 100 to the Full 1200 depending on how many hits you have done before hand. This also includes the Ending B&B which means all my Previous CCs I typed, all do about 3000 less damage due to damage scaling, if you hit a lot (Over 30~40 hits). This also means one thing. Do your Super instead. Sigh. It is a Very Sad day for me to have to say this.

Ok. now...

If you're talking about the corner, then it's Grab, PING, C.HP X 3, S.HP X4 then Wave after Wave. OR Grab, PING, C.HP X 4, S.HP X2 then Wave after Wave.

Reason - If you are confident that you can do your C.HP Accurately Fast, you can hit up to 4 times. This saves time on Damage, leaving you to do S.Hp 2 times.

For a Command Grab into PING into C.HP X4 + S.HP X2 is = 4688 Damage and sets you up Very Nicely and Very Closely for you waves that you want to connect to a grab.

For a Command Grab into PING into C.HP X3 + S.HP X4 is = 4952 Damage which also sets you up close.

But lets look at why the second option isn't really as viable in the long run.

If you notice, Todo has a Timing on his A-Groove S.HPs. Too fast and you whiff with his Close S.HP. Too Slow and...well, you miss. So the Perfect Repeat S.Hp is actually Two Head Chops into one Chin Strike. But this is slow isn't it?

So the First Combo Gives you 4 Immediate Hits without Waiting to Pause, The Next Two also Immediate hits without waiting to pause because after the 4 hits, you are far away enough not to have the second hit turn into a Chin Strike. If you observe the CC bar, you will see that it only took you 1/4 of a bar to do it, and you can already start Waving (Hi there!!! *wave* *wave*)

The Second Combo Gives you 3 Immediate hits, But after that is where stuff go funny. If you follow up with 2 hits into Waves, you waste the Seventh hit that is worth 336 samage (more than a wave). BUT if you DO hit one more time, you end up with a Chin Strike that pushes you slightly away, meaning that if you start waving, you must eventually do a S.HP somewhere at the end of the combo just to get close to grab. That leaves you with the option to hit once more to get close first. But thats a wasted move that does only does 224 damage (Less than a wave). The Worst part is, it ALL takes a much longer time to do than the first combo, which means you wasted one or two waves worth of time already.

HOWEVER

I'll tell ya a secret o' mine.

The Second Move set is not Wasted, it has a very important use in an almost true reset that my friends still like watching.

Roki's Reset!!!

Command grab -> Ping -> C.HP X3 (Pusposedully not accurately fast enough to hit for 4 hits, yet fast enough so you don't end up too far away. Just do a reasonable Tap tap tap) -> S .HP X2 -> Pause for a Millisecond, Now Press Toward HP but Right after the Animation Frames immediately cancel it into a Command Grab. You would have been too far away to do a command grab at first, but because of your S.HP your body shifted Forward and Voila! Command grab taht has been really reset. Count starts back at 1 and you can pummel away at the guy. Again. I managed to Reset twice in one Combo before and the Guy Died From a FULL Life. No, wait that was in Training mode. When I did it in the Arcades, the Guy had only 1/8 life left because I didn't add in the Corner B&B ad the end.

of course some people prefer to replace the S.Hp with RC Command Grab, which is MUCH safer, but also has a Danger of not resetting. Surprisingly, when I S.Hp twice then RC Command Grab, it doesn't reset. Maybe I did it too fast.

Well basically you can do things like that at the right distance (Say, when your Toe Touched Kyo's Foot in the Corner for example) Which is a Distance where you wouldn't be able to grab him, but will if you just take a Smaaallllllll step forward.

It really hurts, and Works Better than Resets with any overheads.

Ok here's the Full String with Explanations

Command Grab -> Ping -> C.HpX3 -> S.HP X2 -> Reset Command Grab explained above -> Once the Command Grab HITS C.Hp X 4 because your body isn't pushed away, then S.Hp X 2 -> Reset Command grab Again -> C.HP X 4 -> S.HP X2 into a Non Reset Command grab -> Corner B& B.

Damage Chain

1200 -> 0 -> 3192 -> Reset Another 4352 -> Reset Another 4352 -> If Succesfully Hit outside, as the Eight Hit, 1050 for the Command grab due to the Damage Scaling, if not succesful it does 192 damage -> Corner B&B 2000+ (Damage Scaling)

A Whopping 16000++ Max
Assuming your opponent didn't try as heck to escape, or didn't know better. And assuming you didn't muck up. And assuming you're lucky, and assuming..just about everything else.

Ah I can't continue, I gotta go

Roki out

[Shocky]

Rokiseph, that is good stuff. Do you have any uses for a wave that is performed using the Tiger Knee motion?

And with your little counter problem, I think the situation is that Todo won't counter anything that hits him from behind. It is that way with Geese, at least.

[Veteru]

Rokiseph, that is good stuff. Do you have any uses for a wave that is performed using the Tiger Knee motion?

And with your little counter problem, I think the situation is that Todo won't counter anything that hits him from behind. It is that way with Geese, at least.
Eh, Shocky... Geese will counter you, from anywhere, as longas you are using the appropriate counter. You could IAD over him and attack from behind, and it would still counter.

P.S. Even if it isn't guilty gear, the counter is still all directions, try it vs. morrigan crossup, after a knockdown.

[Mr. Sparkle]

OK, this is lame, and let me put in a disclaimer that I'm fairly new to CVS2 but...

When i'm fighting Kyosuke, I have trouble stuffing his fireballs with my Kasane Ates. Since his Cross Cutter starts off as 2 fireballs on startup (hi and low), my KA stuffs the low one, but the high one bobs over neatly and pegs me. It sometimes results in a near-even trade, but if he's RC'ing his Cross Cutter, I'm in trouble of course... This is especially a problem up close, when I'm in Jab KA range.

Very annoying. No problem once they come together, but the only practical way I've found to stuff them completely is from quite a distance away (not sure, but IIRC, 2/3 screen, using strong/fierce KA). The only problem with this situation is that Todo is too far away to land his more damaging combos.

Once I have a CKA stored up, though, stuffing it is not a problem. Until then, it's pretty annoying. The trouble is building Todo's meter when firing/landing a KA is not a really viable option.

The last annoying Kyosuke bit involves his air Cross Cutter, which pretty much shuts down Todo's option of using his Air Kasane Ate. When that happens, I try to rely on air guard to block it and I don't bother throwing out my AKA. C.HP doesn't help - it's an energy attack, and Kyosuke can psyche you out. Instead, I either roll away or try to dash backwards and throw out a KA to get in some chip damage, or a lucky hit.

Basically I have to change my strategy to play Runaway Todo (which I'm not really good at) and include a lot of rolls and blocks in my game book. However, Kyosuke tends to recover before I finish my roll (read: throw) and blocking disrupts Todo's momentum.

So... any other tips besides Runaway Todo? I'm playing C-Groove.

[onionkid]

Originally posted by Shocky
Rokiseph, that is good stuff. Do you have any uses for a wave that is performed using the Tiger Knee motion?


(Corner) - Ding, TK Fierce Wave x fucktillion.

Just keep Todo in the air and churn the stick while mashing fierce. It's a guarenteed guard crush like halfway through the custom if you do it properly. Take that, 1950's society.

-rich.

[Rokiseph]

Hi Mr.Sparkle.

I'm a primary K Groover, but here's what I know of C-Groove Todoism.

Incorporate a Hop Back into a HP Kasane Ate when you can. This builds meter, although slowly, but it puts you at a good distance that may hit the opponent who follows you forward. (Like Kyosuke, his cross cutter won't hit you so far then.)

Against Kyosuke, you hop back KA, then you super jump at him. If he does a cross cutter, it can't hit you because you can air block. If he has meter, don't do it of course. However none of us can really help you on that if you don't tell us which groove that Kyosuke is in. But one thing is for sure, that other kyosuke must be pretty lucky to be able to time his C.Cutters so accurately that it goes over your waves, just work on his pattern. And you can roll anyway.

As a C-Groove Todo, try to get this habit :

When you do your SUPER, always do Level 2 Cancelled on the 5th (or 6th hit I forget) into a Command Grab. Always have one Meter Stored To keep you covered when you are in a tight situation (To counter). The Best B&B Super is of course Grab -> C.HP-> Level 2 CKA into Command Grab to reset his Juggle potential. however this IS a bug/glitch/ and you can don't incorporate it. I usually won't unless I play a friend who RCs and for some reason I'm in C-Groove.

Darn I gotta go I'll be back if I can find another computer (Mine's currently messed up)

But another thing.
Mr.Sparkle, i think you just need to play abit more and some of your problems (like the air cross cutter ones) will be solved through your experience. It's really something about getting used to the game dynamics.

[Jackenstein373]

I like Todo a lot...especially on S groove...but damn some of his normals just seem crappy to me (both standing fierce and roundhouse seem kind of goofy). Although I really like his MP, and crouching fierce...and he seems to have pretty easy B&B combos....

[Rokiseph]

Taking Risks in Todo CCs

Stuff to Consider :

If you are nearer to the corner and want to trap the opponent in the corner for some reason, Ping into CC, Do whatever you want, but when you want to Change Direction, Do your Command Grab, and Roll on Contact, you will end up on the other side and you can grab him again. It's not a Combo, but the opponent is likely to be disoriented. Don't grab too fast though, or you will actually whiff.

Todo CCs if Opponent is half a screen Away :
If Opponent Vulnerable
Ping -> Heavy Wave -> Immediately S.HP when the first hit of the wave connects, and Immediately S.Hp again as the first HP is considered a hit and moves you forward enough to hit him as part of the combo.

Alternative is to replace the First HP with a Slide kick

If Opponent Guarding
Ping -> Heavy Wave, but once the first hit is blocked, S.HP again, then Immedaitely S.HP Kara Cancelled into Command Throw, then continue CC.

[Hellion]

Before I begin, let me say that I have done some researching, and that Damage Scaling Applies for Todo's End of CC Command Grab if it hits OUTSIDE of the CC. It can Vary from 100 to the Full 1200 depending on how many hits you have done before hand. This also includes the Ending B&B which means all my Previous CCs I typed, all do about 3000 less damage due to damage scaling, if you hit a lot (Over 30~40 hits). This also means one thing. Do your Super instead. Sigh. It is a Very Sad day for me to have to say this.


Wouldn't ticking into the command grab at the end of the CC to that Corner B&B be a viable strat once or twice?

[Rokiseph]

Yes, if you're sure that other guy isn't spamming a reversal or mashing for activation :D

If you do really wanna tic throw at the end, do that Corner B&B Grab -> Wave -> MP -> Wave.

[Hellion]

Hmmm... How about a RC grab instead of the tick throw? You move up a bit, the other guy will either be blocking or mashing. I'm sure they'll wisen up and try to jump at the end but I thought Todo had a good 50/50 with his RC grabs.

[Rokiseph]

Yes, that is correct, but remember not to do it too early because even RCed grabs , if done too fast, are considered part of the combo of a CC! Hahaha I remember postin tat on another thread... And the risk is still there, but a bit different, you now aren't afraid of people mashing to lp you out of it, but if people are mashing for activation or going for a throw, you'll still get hit, so it's up to you which you want to do.

[Rokiseph]

Haaa! I'm so glad, one of my friends at Arcade decided to use C-Todo (I hope it's for the long term). JH, don't stop using him!

Anyway, I've decided to fine tune Todo, and here's the result of it.

Revision of Todo B&B. ok guys, I think it's ok that if you have really fine execution, that you go ahead and do Command Grab -> Walk a bit -> s.MP -> C.HP. It does Same damage as the Grab -> S.MP -> Wave, and 100 Damage and 1 Stun more than the other variations. If you have it down pat, then it's also the Beginning of the Combo into Super, which is why it's good to practice it for midscreen B&B. I haven't really practiced that after these years, I ought to...

And one extra thing to learn is the Kara Cancel into Command Grab. I used to say Do your S.HP (Neck Chop) And kara cancel immediately into Command Grab with LP or MP right?

Well, I'm a darned fool for forgetting about Negative Edge! From now on, do your command grabs like this Press Hp ->Do command grab movement just as it is within a few frames of coming out, release HP. It's 2 pixels more than the Medium one (not that much, but once in a looooong while, it'll matter)

[Hellion]

And one extra thing to learn is the Kara Cancel into Command Grab. I used to say Do your S.HP (Neck Chop) And kara cancel immediately into Command Grab with LP or MP right?

Well, I'm a darned fool for forgetting about Negative Edge! From now on, do your command grabs like this Press Hp ->Do command grab movement just as it is within a few frames of coming out, release HP. It's 2 pixels more than the Medium one (not that much, but once in a looooong while, it'll matter)

Ok, I knew I had a question regarding this a while back:rofl:

Ok, A-Groove Resets, if you connect CC and after a bit do the kara cancel s.HP neg. edge HP command grab, and the other guy's blocking (because, well, you know) will the kara cancelled poke at that close range get the opponent's blocking animation to come out, so you grab him while he's stuck blocking?

Would the prefered way of escaping this be simply holding jump+towards?

[Rokiseph]

Ok, I knew I had a question regarding this a while back:rofl:

Ok, A-Groove Resets, if you connect CC and after a bit do the kara cancel s.HP neg. edge HP command grab, and the other guy's blocking (because, well, you know) will the kara cancelled poke at that close range get the opponent's blocking animation to come out, so you grab him while he's stuck blocking?

Would the prefered way of escaping this be simply holding jump+towards?

For the first point, yes, if he was blocking, you would see him trying to block, but get caught before the chop connects.

And the preferred way of getting out of this would actually be jumping Up or back, because he can't recover in time and you can actually punish Todo before he recovers from that failed grab attempt. Just like you mentioned a few posts ago, you can RC it instead of Kara cancelling it for the added distance and the invin. since you have that option. Of course, some characters still can land and slam you.

[Hellion]

Of course, some characters still can land and slam you.


With that said, where do you think Todo stands today in effectiveness? Is your sig kinda representative of how you feel K Todo is stronger than A?

Or just playing K for the benefit of the rest of your team?

[Rokiseph]

Ermmm, K doesn't benefit any of my 'Team members' actually, haha! K Gief Gets Blatantly Outmatched by Pokers. K Haoh has no decent way to escape a corner, K Todo has very limited strategies. I play them because, I like them. I'm one of those underdog people. I'd of course love to say K Todo is the strongest, cos it's cool to see an old man raging!Alas...

In today's effectiveness?

If you pit them against one another, A comes out Top in too many departments. A Gives you Immediate Anti Air Via Super, GIves you a Super in Mid Air, gives you counter. Add this to the fact that Todo's CCs start with Command grabs and you have unblocakable and unparryable supers. + The resets and you have almost geriatric hell

After that comes C or N, then K or P, then S. C and N because C gives you many options and you actually keep your bar, and that Level 2 -> Command Grab is just too convenient. N Because of the variety of Options again. Then Comes P or K, If you're K, other Todo's can almost keep you stuck at the corner for a long time. If you're P, allmost the same, because at the right distance, after a Parry, you're still at the corner. No random escape tactices for you. S. Infinite Supers do nothing for him, not much anyway. His dodges are nothing fantastic.

Ok, having said all that, Todo's effectiveness against the rest of the cast really depend on if he's in A groove or not.

I actually typed a long post about the diffferences in the differently grooved Todo, but I scrapped that. Instead, I'll say, Todo overall is an effective zoning character. He has a solid ground poking game, and an even Solider AA mid screen.

The thing about him, is that only his waves are a Solid tool that cannot be 'reacted' upon. All the other advantages that he has are purely psychological (the threat of being kept away or good only after contact (his command grab). He is effective in shutting down the opposition's options in the game, but not because of high priority pokes or uber strong moves, but because of the Wave and C.HP. But that's all there is to it, he doesn't have any moves that are good for Attacking. As in, if someone wants to shut you out, you're not going in, no funny hop kicks or anything.

That's all i can say actually, because I don't know how I should explain his 'effectiveness'. As in, tiering? I can only mention that A-Todo is very effective against more characters because of all the options that he has available after a full bar. All the rest of the Todos can shut out C/A characters quite well (until a dangerous A gets a bar). And depending on your Todo's Groove, they have different strategies. I believe the only way to explain his effectiveness is through one on one comparison, Groove to groove, character to character, so it's kinda hard for me to give a good explanation of what I believe.

:D

[Hellion]

Ok, my fault for asking a semi-vague question:sweat:

Well, like some say, and based general impressions on SRK you really only have to worry about characters you'll see most often, because they're the "most competitive."


...The thing about him, is that only his waves are a Solid tool that cannot be 'reacted' upon...
...effective in shutting down the opposition's options...
...because of the Wave and C.HP...
...he doesn't have any moves that are good for Attacking


So he's psychologically good in A? Like depending on the course of the match, if you're ahead in life and the other guy's got to come to you, A-Todo should be fine?
(Just think regular matchups generalized 'n your own experience)

Hell I don't really care too much about tiers, just enough to know what the mids got vs the tops is fine by me. Only a fool would go about saying fuck tiers, there's no such thing etc. If you enter a match the underdog, its either good to know what you're up against, or good to know that you've got a solid gameplan you want the opponent to dance to.

Not too much of a turtler, but I think I could learn.


Todo overall is an effective zoning character. He has a solid ground poking game, and an even Solider AA mid screen

I think that may have been the answer I was looking for... at least half of it. Maybe the question I wanted to ask is what's the most effective way to play him. Chip the other guy a few times, zone him out so he kills himself trying to get in, etc.

[Rokiseph]

Hmm, ok I'll describe a Match for you to see if it's something you'd like.

First, something that I usually experience.

K-Todo vs C-Sagat

Round One...Fight

Sagat does a poke, whiff
another poke , whiff, trying to force me to walk back in fear, another poke...but suddenly he's hit by a heavy wave.

He stops poking for a bit. So he decides to do high/low tiger
I JD, He does another, but gets hit by another wave. SO he stops the fireball for a bit.
He jiggles his joystick back and forth
I jiggle my joystick back and forth, do a light wave.

I watch for a reaction. He doesn't move? Another Heavy wave.
He stands too much? I Slide kick him form the appropriate distance.

Suddenly, he decides to roll.

C.HP. It connects, because rolls always end with the character in standing position, and Todo's C.HP stays there quite a while.
He decides to jump then, I C.HP again. And if i guess he's going to do ANYTHING other than uppercut/super (from so far away), I run over and Command grab him, just as he reaches the ground.

This is the time for Psychological games.Clever opponents will tend to mash moves as you're doing combos to them. Those not so used to it and just defend, will have a painful time, because After that Command grab, I have the choice of doing another one then B&B. And you always have the option of running over and Karaing into ANOTHER GRAB while he's having that 1 second breather. I'm willing to take the risk of getting hit. If I am hit, then it just starts the match from the beginning portion.

This is a realistic example of what actually happens during a match. C-Sagat just *can't* get in. Usually in situations like this, the Sagat is forced into the corner. My heavy Wave has a longer range than his longest poke, and the ONLY way he gets in is
1. You do a wave and he decided to jump at the same time (You're too predictable)
2. You got careless and didn't AA him when he jumped, or stop him when he rolled.

Characters that fall into this C/A trap
Akuma (Watch out for the Dive kick, and he can jump hurricane out so he's not so stuck, but that's all)
Blanka (Without RC elec)
Chang
Dan
Honda
Eagle
Geese (But has a high jump so be careful)
Guile
Iori (Careful of the roll)
Ken (Can Jump hurricane to shift the spacing, but you'll still be zoning him in the end)
Kim (Careful of the roll)
King (careful of the roll)
Kyo
Kyosuke
M.Bison (But has a really high Jump arc to diffuse the situation)
Raiden
Ryo (careful of his overhead chop)
Ryu
Sagat
Terry
Yuri
Zangief

Of course, there RC *something or another* for some of these characters, so change your style to suit it.

If these same characters are in other grooves, the basics to fighting them are there, but be careful of Low jumps. And Be careful of Parry.

Characters not included are those that generally won't let Todo Force them back. These are People with special jumping or poking properties that Just makes Todo work harder.

Ok anyway, now transfer all this to A-groove, you'll manage to keep yourself zoning and yet build up a bar at the same time, and when you have a full bar, what are you going to do next? Again he'll never come to you because of Activation into Command grab as an AA (yeah) or Roll in because you'll still keep him away (Or Activation into grab if you're fast lol). Random supers are meaningless to him because you're always far enough to block them.

Now the thing is, do you want to go in and do that CC? Or are you ok with Zoning him to death? I'm K, I'm pure rushdown into the JD Frenzy into whatever the hell opening I can get. A is a whoooole lotta more technical. You can choose do crazy stuff like chip him for 4500~ damage off the bat if he's already stuck in the corner but blocking and you darent go too near. You can Activate from halfway accross the screen, do your heavy wave and use that to get in to chip him some more (read the previous pages on how to do stuff like that, not a lot of people do it, some don't know you can do it). It's rather safe because when the heavy wave connects it puts him in block stun and you're already in his face because of the double slide, or slide into kara throw. Somewhere along the chipping line, you can go for the grab,

You can always also tiger knee the wave (If you want to take the risk) because it does 6000~ (!!!) worth of Chip damage if you plain just do it alone. And the Guard breaks BEFORE that so once you practice it right, just before the guard breaks, you land, you break it, HP, then super. OK but this one really depends how good you're at getting in because seriously, you have to have him in the corner, and you literally have to be in his face.

Oh yes, an update on the From Midscreen CC. Remember anytime you do a Wave and it connects, if you had thrown anotehr move out before that it would have been considered as Connected? Then for example if the opponent is in the corner and you want to get in ;

Activate (midscreen away) -> Heavy Wave -> Slides Kick just as the wave hits, -> cancel the Slide Kick with an LP so that it doesn't hit -> Immediately kara Command Grab. You have to do these very quickly becase they come right one after the other, and with precision so the Slide doesn't connect. Alternatively , if you're slightly closer a bit you can replace the slide with a S.HP, then before he pulls himself back, Kara Command grab. Like previously, it's as if You did a Heavy wave and suddenly teleported next to him and grabbed him, literally anyone who blinks for a bit will think that way. IMHO I think it's bloody scary for anyone who's not used to it. And I've never ever heard of people widely using this so i'm guessing not a lot of people will have actually seen it either. When I tried to discuss this property some time back people said that it was already beaten to death. Oh well.

Gah, I always feel like I missed something out. maybe I'll edit later if I realise anything. Anyway, have fun.

[Hellion]

Slides Kick just as the wave hits, -> cancel the Slide Kick with an LP so that it doesn't hit ->

Good stuff, I apologize I will need to take some time to digest that info I'm not sleeping well these days (work-a-holic)

For the record though I didn't realize the slide could be kara-cancelled like that during activation, that late in the animation of the move... I've never seen it myself, and I guess I must've brushed past it in my skimming through the thread earlier.

So the jab is meant to whiff so the grab doesn't right? And all this is meant to be done in the time of a heavy wave?

That's a hell of a tick throw:rofl:

I'll get back to u

[Rokiseph]

Don't worry, the slide kick into LP not earlier in the thread, it's something else I discovered but never put down. (or did I hmmm)

It's like this in detail,

1. Do a Heavy Wave at a distance when you wave will hit at least twice (The Heavy Wave starts to hit opponent blocking or not, so that allows your character to do another move right? so...)
2. You Slide as soon as possible, i.e ONCE the wave connects...
3. While you are sliding The wave actually hits the opponent at least another time and because of the, umm, I have no other name for it, I personally call it Connected Whiff effect, where because you do a move, and after you do it, another move of yours connects, the move you have just done is also considered by the computer to have connected so you can in effect cancel it into another move, in which case now, is the..
4. LP just before you reach him, the LP Must NOT hit him , we don't want to put him in further block stun, because right after you LP you will immediately..
5. Kara Command Grab. And Negative Edge doesn't work during CCs so you have to go or the MP version instead.

It's not a Tick Throw, it's a Whiff throw actually. :D

Hmmm, ok this is how you gauge which to do.

If the Timer at the top is pointing at the middle of your head or behind you, you can opt to do the S.HP into Kara throw instead, because the S.HP makes you take a rather large step forward. And, the leeway they give for for Kara Cmmand Grab is hella huuuuge, it's Zangief Like Distance, seriously. So that one is fine.

If the Timer is Pointing From the middle of your head to the crook at your front elbow, you can do the slide kick one.

Personally, I'd take a step forward just to be in range for the S.HP one because it's hella easier and the wave hits 3 times.

Thats just one of the few ways you can use it. Other ways include the option of when he gets hit, where you can actually, in the space of the wave, do 3 Chops in succesion , with the Third Chop Hitting him and continuing the combo, or if you delay the first chop, even the second one can hit if you're close enough.

And you're right, normally the slide cannot be cancelled like that so late, but now it can because of the Connected Whiff Property.

I've only found one character that can make use of this properly, and thats Todo. Another is Iori but his isn't as useful, but really nice to watch too. Some characters can use it, but won't be too effective with their limited list of what they can do.

Sigh, I'd make a vid but I don't have the equipment for that...I know it's rather hard to digest because it concerns Weird Things Happening.

[Hellion]

Connected Whiff Property.


That actually makes sense now that I think about it... Execution looks
fairly strict, but maybe its more of the timing.

Damn... Looks like good ways to set up lots (figurative in this case) of shit with Todo...

Like a monster if he gets full bar, after a fashion.

I'll give it a shot 'n see how I do.

[Hellion]

Okay, managed to see it now... I am so not used to cancels at that speed. I think I'm doing it too early, because I move only about an inch towards the corner. Most times the jab combos with the slide.
Hard as fuck, but I can see why this may come in handy if you have someone cornered and you activated in the center of the screen, chipping away while they guard, then close in and nail em.

Oh by the way which standing fierce is the one being kara-cancelled?
I am not quite sure, but I think I am kara-cancelling the palm strike to the face, the bitch slap I can't cancel at all. Doesn't look like I'm cancelling the palm strike during the startup though, but the recovery:confused:

Seems easiest that way, but I always thought the side swipe was the once you want to cancel...

There's not too much else to Todo I would imagine, everything else you've pretty much mentioned in the thread before hand. I guess the only thing left is matchups and just getting into the thick of it.

[Rokiseph]

Hmmm, if you're kara Cancelling the Palm Strike to the face, it means you're already close enough for a normal grab right? If you're Further away, it's the side chop to the neck...that's the one you're Kara Cancelling.

Anyway try practicing the Chop, then Kara Grab instead of teh slide, whiff, Kara grab one first to have a hang of it.It just means taking a step closer, so it's still ok. Gosh i hope u scare people with it :D

[Hellion]

Well sometimes I'd hit fierce, like by either the third rep or the fourth and I get a "whiffed" close standing fierce.

Kinda funny. The angle on it makes that possible. Well, it's almost like a...
forgot exactly what they call it. A kung fu "shadow" thing where you distract the guys eyes with a "whiffed" open hand strike and do whatever attack you intended the first place.:rofl:

Not used to kara-cancels, I've done plenty with Kyo, not on purpose though.

The timing on them seems very strict, so long as its done during the startup of a move anyway.

Well, guess if I can RC I should be able to Kara-Cancel too right?

Won't be scaring many people except scrubs if I find any in Mississippi unfortunately. Unless there's like an arcade you know of in Florida I could frequent. Maybe I should do some searching of my own...
That is the idea though, hopefully:looney:

[Hellion]

Command grab -> Ping -> C.HP X3 (Pusposedully not accurately fast enough to hit for 4 hits, yet fast enough so you don't end up too far away. Just do a reasonable Tap tap tap) -> S .HP X2 -> Pause for a Millisecond, Now Press Toward HP

Oh, ok. Thanks Rokiseph's past :rofl:

[Hellion]

Rokiseph you play K-Todo, you played A-Todo, what do you think about N-Todo?

[caliagent#3]

Rokiseph you play K-Todo, you played A-Todo, what do you think about N-Todo?

N-todo isn't that great. C or A todo are best. corpse hop, dash rc grab, damaging custom off of rc command grab, damaging lvl 2. Todo really can't make use of low jump and his run is kinda slow.

[Rokiseph]

This may sound odd, but how good N-Todo is, is really two separate issues.

The first one is, how good are you with N groove?

The second one is, How good are you with Todo.

These are two very obvious answers to your question, but here's what I mean.

A- Todo is special because it uses his movesets with Custom Combo to create something powerful. You don't have to be good with 'A' Groove, you just have to be good with Todo's A groove, i.e. practicing his CC. I can say things like, A-Todo is good because he has this great CC unique to him etcetc

K Todo is actually really Playing Todo instead of K most of the time, you can be damn good at JDing stuff, but mostly you have to learn a lot of Rushdown / Zoning Todo to take the opponent down because the Special Thing for K is, JD (Which does nuts for you damage wise) and Raging, which you have to be a good attaker to get damage out of in the first place.

For N, you have to be good at managing a full set of moves that Aren't Todo's. You have to know when to use the Guard Cancel, Guard Roll, Breaking Stock, etcetc And THEN you have to learn how to rush down with Todo. Thats where most people will say, N Todo isn't that Great. It's not because N Todo isn't great, it's because , some players can't get around to using N very well in the first place. They can't squeeze the advantage of N, which is...versatility.

Again i have to say that, everything I say here will be old news to you, except for the part where you have to practice N a lot before you pick up N Todo.

Ok, N-Todo. See a few posts before, the one about how a typical Todo works against some characters...this of course, Applies to All Manner of Todo. Now what does Todo have that is special in N is...Nothing.

Almost nothing actually, until we talk about Options. What N is good for IMHO, is in diffusing enemy Tactics. It's something like a groove that has no counter groove, like K and P have in A. N-Groove does let you escape from A-Sak Shoshosho by counter rolling, lol.

Unfortunately, you can't Command Grab then Break Stock and Max Special. That is the sad case for N, however, the psychological side of, and the Guard Breaking potential of N is higher than that of K's

The Guard break part is rather Obvious, When you break stock, you get stronger, your moves get stronger, this leads to better Guard Breaking Potential, annnnnddddd...

You get a Max special and enemies run away from you as if you're Raged. it's the same mentality they get, however what is different from this and K is that...you have a lot more time 'Raged'. And you get to control when you get raged. So if you start a match with 3 stocks, feel free to break one, there's absoutely no harm at all to go up 0.8 a ratio.

Is this important for Todo? Yes. It just happens that his playing style does suit N, because he's a Zoning Poker, and with Run, a possible Rush downer. If you had someone like Nakoruru, she would still have these advantages, but not as synergistic as if it is Todo with N.

All the little things make up the match, like the way you defend yourself against their attacks, and the other little stuff like the fact that if your opponent is in the corner, you can, if you have full stock and are 'raged', Counter Attack and Max Super hit the opponent for around 3000+ Damage. Not really a Raiden or Chun-Li, but at least it's something to remember because eventually when you have him cornered, it's going to be part of your plan to do some bit of damage, and maybe even to finish him off.

Having 3 stocks give him options too, having his Kuzu Otoshi at his disposal is good because it's there to deter random strings.

As a summary, Playing N Todo now depends on
1. Where his placement is on your team. He's an Ok battery...
2. how much Power stock at the beginning of the match (Cos building N Power stock is hell)
3. How good you are at gauging when to Break Stock and manage your Power/defense, when (if you can) to Counter Roll or Counter Hop (Almost never used), what you can Counter attack , and when is it useful to Run into Roll as part of an attacking option (A move i only ONLY ever do as Zangief)
4. How good you are With Basic Todo

So, what do I think of N-Todo? Nothing special, playable, but lacks the Danger of A-Todo and Kamikaze jumping in of K-Todo. Otherwise played normally he can hold his own against everyone. Just remember to try and be 'raged' as often as you can, no matter what anyone around you says. That little bit of extra damage and defense is very important to you in the long run. When you have 100 life left, you'll regret not breaking stock just before eating that super a minute ago...

[Hellion]

Yeah I think you covered the good points well.
I don't like K, however good (or not) JD is I find that groove's options limited to the characters you play as, however much it benefits/enhances Cammy/Sagat/Kyo etc (everyone for that matter) in the long haul it's the individual characters that determine success against the famous single killer of K-Groove teams--->Sakura

A groove is fine, but limited in almost the same way as K is, except character selection and placement are definitely more important. Well actually that's a matter of perspective.

In saving all your meter for activation, you're really limited in your game if you're being rushed, to just the characters basic strengths and zoning. In Todo's case he has both an alpha counter and a super counter both at 1 "stock" whatever. He basically looses all that and has to rely on good zoning while saving his meter for activation.

Some characters like A-Blanka ignore all this and play normally of course, that's why he's top tier.

N-Groove ignores all that, more or less.
I dunno I like having 3 stocks when I play N, my only gripe with it is when popped you can't build anymore meter 'till the bar's timer goes out. That's fine though at least you can still AC/counter-roll when things get sour

[Hellion]

From Buk's "Tips of the Day Thread"
12/11/03:

After Todo's low jab, RC grab or sweep is totally 50/50. Whatever avoids the grab, the sweep will counter and vice versa. Since Todo's low jab gives +6 and his sweep comes out in 8 frames, the 2 frame gap in between isn't enough time for any of the generic anti-RC grab counters to work... namely, throwing and jumping straight up. The sweep will snag the jump before the opponent even leaves the ground, and the fastest throws (not counting Gief SPD and super grabs) come out in 3 frames.

Basically, after any grab, go right into sweep if you don't have CC/level 2 ready. Dash over opponent's body, low jab into sweep/rc grab 50/50 mix up, repeat. You can also omit the low jab if you want but the timing is harder.

Oh yeah, the opponent can back dash/forward dash out of a grab but that's really difficult in a reversal situation.

[Rokiseph]

Ahaa, personally, that 50/50 is not my cup of tea. 50/50 goes in my direction, meaning if they block my sweep, or throw me out of my atempt to Command grab them, I get damage.

And oh yeah, I keep forgetting to put this up for Todo, which significantly raises his A-Groove CC damage by 33% during the wave parts (Yes, that is a lot)

If someone gets stuck in a corner and you repeatedly do waves at them, you will get 300 damage-->300 damage -->300damage--> etc right?

Actually, you can input a light punch as soon as you can, and it will hit him somewhen right after the second hit of your wave. So it actually is 4 hits, and you can continue as normal (Speedwise)

So instead of going up in increments of 3 hits, you actually go up in increments of 4 hits, in the same amount of time. So 10 waves = 1000 extra damage now. Just practice doing those Wave Lp Wave continuously and you'll see the extra damage.

Of course, some people may feel 1000 damage is no big deal. but to me, every dot counts.

Again I'd do a vid on it, bu i jus *don't* have the equipment for it...eearrgghhh...

[Hellion]

So instead of going up in increments of 3 hits, you actually go up in increments of 4 hits, in the same amount of time. So 10 waves = 1000 extra damage now. Just practice doing those Wave Lp Wave continuously and you'll see the extra damage.


That's actually kinda cool. Similar to how Akuma's CC's are supposed to function.
I personally don't believe damage off supers/CC's should be the deciding factor in determining how good a character is or not, but hey Rokiseph, E.D.A.W.:rock:

[Rokiseph]

Yeah E.D.A.W. :D
Too bad I don't play A-Groove...nyaaarrrr

Anyway the deciding factor in determining how good a character is should be based on the answering of 'Yes' to these questions

1. Does he have a cute daughter
2. Does he have the biggest most badass sword in the game
3. Can he grab you and slam you like a rag doll even if you weigh more than him. (Hey I like Chang and raiden too ok)
4. Does he have a super that does nothing but psychologically irritate the opponent and give them a full bar.

[Rokiseph]

WHERE IS THE LOVE FOR TODO!

Does anyone realise that his thread is the Single most untouched thread for TWO YEARS RUNNING...


TWO YEARS!!!

OMG

Where's the Love for the Cute Moustachioed man that Laughs a lot fanning himself?

All you peeps get off your High Tier Sagats and A-Blankas and replace them with Todo NOW!

[Utsusemi]

Where's the Love for the Cute Moustachioed man that Laughs a lot fanning himself?

lol

Yeah, I've heard that A-Todo is a brick wall, I honestly don't get why more people use him competitively... I might learn him and replace him with Maki (or bison for casuals) for my team.

[MGS]

so recently i was messing around and tried out todo...why the hell did i never take this guy seriously before maybe it was the mullet..my preferred groove is k but i'm playing todo in c groove and not only is he fun but he really gives the ninja turtles(honda, vega, blanka, cammy) a run for their money completely taking away their ability to sit and wait you to death. using the wave really pisses ppl off not only can you rc them out of whatever move they do if they just sit there they take damage the lvl 2 cancel gives you the damage of a lvl3 wave..and i really enjoy using the super counter for anti airs and basically to piss them off even more i do wish he had more range on his moves but the waves more than make up for it..he's good but also hard to play..good thing there aren't a lot of them out there so that you can catch foes by surprise.

[bodler]

i always get caught with that a groove activate comand grab shit. hate that shit.

[Rokiseph]

Hahahaha yeah, Todos actually the next A Monster after Bison, it's just that he's technically much harder to pull off...anyway, if you wanna jump in at him, jump so that you do a crossup everytime, it messes up their Ping into grab sometimes.

[Pieguy]

Todo would be top tier if his command grab was a few more pixels. As it stands, people who are good at controlling space with backdashes and low jumps give todo way too many problems leading to big openings when you're not careful. There's an above average C-Todo at my local arcade and it's just discouraging watching so many grabs whiff when you know there's only a 4-5 pixel gap that's causing you to either whiff or land the grab to a nasty super cancel.

Messing around with Todo in K was pretty fun but imo, his dash is super important for his mix-up game. It's a very fast dash that covers lots of distance and when used unpredictably, leads to a ton of counter hits and grabs.

Only other thing that bugs me about todo is his c.rh. It's just way too laggy and even though it covers a lot of ground, you have to be super careful with it or you pay. Same thing goes for his command lunge/sweep. Getting it JD'd is so painful T_T.

I really like Todo's c.mk and s.mp though. Great priority with great frame advantage and special/super cancellable.

[RagingStormX]

Command grab, walk forward s.mp, c.fp xx lvl 3. Shit hurts. Also for the above post, RC grab has dope range, you can tick with 2 jabs or a medium attack.

[Pieguy]

Command grab, walk forward s.mp, c.fp xx lvl 3. Shit hurts. Also for the above post, RC grab has dope range, you can tick with 2 jabs or a medium attack.

It's still not that great. 68 pixels compared to 72 on rock's evac throw or 100+ on SPD's. 4 pixels really makes a huge difference when ticking. One might argue that center of gravity might lead to a bit more damage usually but it seems like Rock has a much easier time landing evac's.

[FSgamer]

It's still not that great. 68 pixels compared to 72 on rock's evac throw or 100+ on SPD's. 4 pixels really makes a huge difference when ticking. One might argue that center of gravity might lead to a bit more damage usually but it seems like Rock has a much easier time landing evac's.
68 pixels is considerably better than a regular throw (52 pixels), it can be easily RC'ed, and you can combo off it. Sounds good enough to me.

[noodleman]

Command grab, walk forward s.mp, c.fp xx lvl 3. Shit hurts. Also for the above post, RC grab has dope range, you can tick with 2 jabs or a medium attack.
only hurts if it's mid screen. One of the reasons Buk said that A-Todo is infinitely better than C-Todo.

don't forget if you slow down your RC Grab you can actually get a kara comand grab for a few extra pixels or range.

[Buktooth]

i think RCing it gives it substantially more than a few extra pixels. almost definitely farther than rock's non-RCed grab

[RagingStormX]

i think RCing it gives it substantially more than a few extra pixels. almost definitely farther than rock's non-RCed grab

Yeah im pretty sure also. iI never had any problems grabbing with todo. I use rock and Todo seems to have the better grab in terms of range.

[RagingStormX]

The Todo (TM) vs Sagat (dizzy) in the corner:

dp+fp, tiger knee'd qcf+lp, land, c.mk xx qcf+lp, s.mp/c.mk

Also, after a grab midscreen:

qcf+lp, c.mk xx lvl 3

[popoblo]

The Todo (TM) vs Sagat in the corner:

dp+fp, tiger knee'd qcf+lp, land, c.mk xx qcf+lp, s.mp/c.mk

i think after landing you can qcf+lp, c.mk xx qcf+lp, I dont remember lol

Also, after a grab:

qcf+lp, c.mk xx lvl 3

so his dp + fp hits a crouching sagat on his wakeup? does that really work? that just doesn't seem right to me...

and it seems like it would be more important, once you corner someone with todo, to just land the grab, obviously. so what are the best ways to achieve that? like is there some ideal flow chart to go by?

i'm thinking instead of having long, elaborate guard strings, something as simple as one slightly ranged tiger knee wave (slightly ranged to avoid a wakeup DP/RC), then RC grab or low jab (which then allows you to either combo or gauge if a RC grab is a good idea then also).

and how practical is it to use RC grab as AA? it seems like it would work best vs faster jumps (ie vega or blanka) so they can fall through the invincibility of the roll and get grabbed.

and don't forget, do your tiger knee GC custom against these characters in the corner regardless because their AC's don't hit you...

blanka, yamazaki, rolento, chang, and dhalsim.

peace

PS- check out ~2:22, it seems useful if you burn an AC to corner someone (or just don't have full meter when you manage to corner someone), start getting more meter, and need a bit more before you have full bar to activate, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pok3Llv7KsI

[RagingStormX]

My bad its vs standing sagat (dizzy). Also I can AA grab wth yun just fine, Im sure Todo is the same. Also you can do faster lp waves in the corner during a cc by whiffing jabs iirc.

[caliagent#3]

RC command grab vs jumpy k groove players

[FullMetalRoss]

Popo: in my experience RC grab as AA is pretty good. Not perfect but it works.

[popoblo]

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=48E3960479AD9943

chinatown fair footage from 2005 with lots of arturo matches and his C-todo. some really good stuff in there. i like his match vs sanford where he corners his chun li and just constantly does RC grab right as chun wakes up to grab RC LL or rolls out of the corner. if chun jumps back, then todo's low fierce trades and sanford is in the same spot again. i guess a level 3 super from chun or jumping FORWARD out of the corner would work if the grab is mis-timed....

can anybody who knows todo comment on his bad matchups? i'm thinking somebody with a fast roll like iori or sagat could pose problems, or those who really outrange him. any ideas?

peace

[Sabin]

thought u retired? lol.

i always felt that vega counters todo pretty badly due to mobility, and iirc (i havent played this game seriously in a while) his jumping fierce beat out todos low fierce at many many ranges..sakura gives him trouble as well. basically fast characters, and anyone who can jump up and down a lot give him problems. one knockdown can always change the pace of the match though.

and i play c-todo cause i cant do customs.

[BoBaCha]

A good guile is always annoying to play against with Todo. I find you just gotta be really careful with zoning but basically Todo controls the match when he corners his opponent.

[popoblo]

art- cvs2's a hell of a drug! but vega makes sense, did you ever experiment with using RC grab as an AA against vega jumping up predictably? it's obviously not nearly as easy to whip out a RC half circle move against a random jump in, but if vega knocks you down, expects a wakeup grab, and does jump straight up fierce, it seems like delaying the RC grab could be an option. feel free to put my theory fighter in its place, lol.

how well did your todo hold up against P-groovers? it seems like parrying can really hurt todo's game because the wave is a one hit auto-parry and his low fierce can be really predictable to jump in and parry. any advice?

bobacha- i was always under the impression that guile was one of todo's easiest matches. waves eat up guile's sonic boom game and RC waves eat up his pokes, and guile's roll is too slow to roll through the waves. obviously don't get predictable with them and eat a level 3 when he has it available, but otherwise it seems like smart RC waves get the job done.

peace

[No defence]

Use smart waves. Make sure you mix them up with RC GRAB.

DONT Us his counter ATTACK/Alpha count like ART did...... It can get you killed.:wasted:

[noodleman]

i think the fact that waves are one hit auto parry can bait out mroe parry attempts for your to try and grab instead....

[''Rugal.B'']

Nah todo gets ass raped vs p anything he's just not able to zone correctly vs p groove.

[No defence]

Use smart waves. Make sure you mix them up with RC GRAB.

DONT Us his counter ATTACK/Alpha count like ART did...... It can get you killed.:wasted:

01:30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKijMce3bdY

[Rokiseph]

Nah todo gets ass raped vs p anything he's just not able to zone correctly vs p groove.


It's still doable...he just zones differently, and has to change his corner strats a bit.

[popoblo]

It's still doable...he just zones differently, and has to change his corner strats a bit.

how so? more RC grabs than chipping strings?

here's something i was thinking- how good could N-todo be? how useful is low jump RH as something different to use?

todo can build a ton of meter, and running jabs mixed in with RC grab could be good, and plenty of level 1's would let you do low fierce xx level 1 after grabs to get your opponent closer to the corner. running low forward to poke would add a bit more range.

i guess i see N-todo as having more options while still having RC grab, which is key. there's no doubt A-todo is the best, but i could see how N-todo could be useful.

any thoughts?

[gridman]

I think A>N>C>K>P>S really. I dont get why N is almost ALWAYS tied with C. Its clearly a better groove in this case. The only reason people rate it tied or lower is because..its N and no one uses it.

[Rokiseph]

how so? more RC grabs than chipping strings?

here's something i was thinking- how good could N-todo be? how useful is low jump RH as something different to use?

todo can build a ton of meter, and running jabs mixed in with RC grab could be good, and plenty of level 1's would let you do low fierce xx level 1 after grabs to get your opponent closer to the corner. running low forward to poke would add a bit more range.

i guess i see N-todo as having more options while still having RC grab, which is key. there's no doubt A-todo is the best, but i could see how N-todo could be useful.

any thoughts?

Ummm, yes, but also more of distancing yourself slightly further away from corners and tricking him into parrying medium waves and using more of your further pokes. You can still do chipping strings, but futher. I can't really explain it, i gotta show it to you. But I use K-Todo so it's harder for me to explain cos it involves JDing and stuff...but what I was saying is, Todo doesn't get ass raped against P Groovers. I mean, good P-Groovers who can read you well...not the general P for fun matches.

Ok maybe a small example would be, if the p-groover likes to jump a lot, then you should run a lot in case he jumps, then you end up behind him and then C.HP from behind, fucks a lot of them up. That's for SNK. CA has RC Options, so you can do lots more RC grab stuff.

If the P-Groover plays good ground games and doesn't jump a lot, it really isn't to Todo's disadvantage either, because he does, still have his medium waves, and...so what if they parry your medium wave, many many characters can't retaliate from that. Most of the time, their option is to jump.

Gah, so hard to explain...

-----

As for N-Todo?

Gah yeah I don't play much in N, i can't say much. He has a corner Alpha into Level3, but that's only good for 2880 damage maximum...and his alpha counter is shit.

But at least when he breaks a stock, his corner B&B does 5000++ damage.

The one thing about N Todo is that once you have 2 Stock, no one is allowed to normal jump or super jump toward you, or even straight up when half a screen from you...because Break -> Level 3 is too fast. This leaves you one stock to play around with anytime, and this is consistent with what you said about him being able to gain meter good and do lotsa C.HP into level 1s.

-----

N vs C

C has Command Grab into level 2 into Cancel
N doesn't have that, you can only do big super damage only if you ping, and if you grabbed a dude without pinging, you can't do that, but...you can in C. <(This is important, and once you break a stock, people are going to run away from you)

C has Air block which some people depend on.

C has hop, which let's you play more mind games. Although having run gives you better corner control in different situations.

N has Counter Roll, which doesn't really help todo much

N Has Alpha Counter, which is useful only if

1. you're close enough
2. You've trapped him in the corner and you actually already broke a stock before that and you have another stock left, with which you can do a level 3 and juggle the guy with, giving you a total of 2880 damage (If you're not too close). Which is...Ok. Not Raiden Big, but still tricky in some ways.

N has break Stock, and that shields you and strengthens you somewhat, but when you go up against super powers like Sagat and Blanks, that makes it a matter of being able to withstand one more heavy punch from someone, which IS useful in many situations, but only if you don't get hit.

N has low jump, but Todo doesn't have low jump into uppercut, or anything instant for that matter, unless it's low jump level 3. He can't pressure people the way blanka can, and anyway Todo doesn't seem to be designed for that. You can use it of course and block right after, it *is* still damage.

C has a Faster jump. To me that's highly important. I don't know why, but many many times i've played, i could feel that if I could jump faster, i wouldn't have been caught in something, or I would have caught THEM doing something. 2 frames IS important. (And this somewhat applies to his Tiger knee waves)

just some of the stuff, not saying which is better, just...how it is to me...

[Buktooth]

level 2 anti air wave is important

also ngroove makes it much harder to do tigerknee waves

his low jump game is pretty meh also (though low jump early short -> level 1 counter super is ghetto fabulous)

[popoblo]

OLD TRAGIC POST FROM 2003

Depending on where Todo is on screen, the finisher I use is diff. If in corner, I finish with grab -> combo. If midscreen, c.HK -> QCF,QCF+P (looks cool), or f+MK -> QCF,QCF+P (also looks cool, and moves you a bit closer to corner where the opponent will end up).

You also build up more stun on the opponents meter by doing the grab at the end. May or may not be worth it depending on how much you've hit them before the custom.

Against fatter chars (including Blanka), you can do grab (to finish custom), QCF+LP, MP -> QCF+LP, MP. This does 800 damage, and +44 stun. Against normal width chars, QCF+LP, MP -> QCF+LP does +33 stun.

What this means is, if you know how much stun you have inflicted before the custom, you can go for the easy dizzy. A typical grab -> QCF+LP, link low MK or stand MP will do 30-32 stun respectively. In many cases, opponents freeze up against the wave pressure when cornered, so it's not uncommon to hop in after a low MK, or stand MP (which finishes the grab combo), and re-grab.

Using the grab at the end of the combo can be especially good against "lightweights" with only 60 stun points.

Anyway, it's really up to you. 960 damage + no stun, or 700-800 (depending on width) +33-44 additional stun.

There are also other points to think about. Can your opponent wake-up with a DP (or do they have a super ready). If not, then finishing with the super, then tigerkneeing a wave (+300 guard damage and the advantage) can be an especially good choice.

END OLD TRAGIC POST

some good stuff in there, and probably the best post on todo i've ever seen (shows how much todo is played:looney:). i've never thought about dizzying someone with todo using those wave patterns after a grab post-CC, but it seems pretty useful. after a dizzy, you're not getting much except jump in rh, low rh for a knockdown and 50/50 or corner pressure OR jump in rh into wave combo for more meter.

discuss:tup:

[Rokiseph]

After a dizzy, just do the corner combo again. I always 'run'/'hop' the opponent into a corner if they're dizzy because that does the most damage. And that it puts you in a good place for his corner trap.

Edit : Oh and something N Todo has over C todo due to his sucky Alpha counter, his counter roll to get out of Guard Break CC!

[popoblo]

let's talk about A-todo now, since that's clearly his best groove.

here's one specific question i was wondering- what is the most damaging custom to standup an opponent off of a non-grab? so let's say you activate and hit someone with low short, but they're still crouching. you need to do a special move to stand them up, so is something like low short, low fierce xx jab wave (stands them up), standing fierce xx jab wave into the alternating fierce xx jab wave pattern the best option?

also, what are some uses for kara cancelling his forward + mk into his grab during the CC? i'm guessing you could punish things from further distances with a high damaging CC if the opponent is vulnerable/the forward + mk reaches. chun's blocked super? shoto's low RH xx fireball or sagat's low forward xx fireball? i'm sure there's many others, but that's all that's coming to mind right now.

throw out some other ideas or tricks you use with A-todo.

peace

[noodleman]

for the crouching thing, i would think the best thing is cr.short xx cr.fp xx grab into the standard midscreen cc? I say that cause this way you can get a couple of fp's in before the damage scaling kicks in (jab wave does more hits, so scales faster).

i haven't used Todo enough to know what to do with kara forward mk -> grab during cc other than as a parlor trick. Other than going through FB's, i don't really see a point. It could be a surprise factor, but that's about it imo.

[Rokiseph]

You can't really kara cancel the Sliding Kick like that, just read a few pages back to do the Wave into Sliding kick cancelled to a grab. That CC is used if someone is half a screen away but in a stun for doing something stupid.

And for the crouching thing, you're better off with a short -> Grab because that sets you up for a very quick four C.HPs after that for the extra damage into a good range for S.HP into Wave X N...

[popoblo]

for the crouching thing, i would think the best thing is cr.short xx cr.fp xx grab into the standard midscreen cc? I say that cause this way you can get a couple of fp's in before the damage scaling kicks in (jab wave does more hits, so scales faster).

the only problem that i see with that is if the cr. short is blocked, because then the grab would whiff. i'm not sure if that's enough time to react and see the cr. short and cr. fierce is blocked to NOT do the grab...

You can't really kara cancel the Sliding Kick like that, just read a few pages back to do the Wave into Sliding kick cancelled to a grab. That CC is used if someone is half a screen away but in a stun for doing something stupid.

And for the crouching thing, you're better off with a short -> Grab because that sets you up for a very quick four C.HPs after that for the extra damage into a good range for S.HP into Wave X N...

i guess i didn't mean to use the kara cancel terminology. i'm basically wondering what applications the CC, forward + mk cancelled into grab has. very few people will be dumb enough to sit there and let that grab them from however far away. i'm more specifically wondering about it's uses for punishing things. for example, is there enough time after a blocked chun li super to activate, forward + mk and cancel it into the grab for a big damaging CC (instead of just doing low RH to punish). OR let's say bison does a ranged devil's reverse OR does a headstomp and flies back into you for the punch follow up, does that work while he's vulnerable on the ground (since you're invincible from the CC activation)? what about punishing a blanka ball before he's able to hop back? the timing would be strict, but todo usually punishes a blanka ball by using forward + mk, so why not CC, forward + mk cancelled into grab TIMED RIGHT? see what i'm getting at?

and your second point about low short xx grab is also bad if blocked. i'm trying to think of the best option to really use his 50/50 after activating up close. if they didn't jump away, you grabbed them and go into your ground CC. if they tried to jump away and you went with low short, what's the best ground CC option after the low short to get the most damage AND will still work if they weren't standing up? because if you just do the normal ground CC, some of the far standing fierces may whiff against shorter characters....

peace

[Rokiseph]

i guess i didn't mean to use the kara cancel terminology. i'm basically wondering what applications the CC, forward + mk cancelled into grab has. very few people will be dumb enough to sit there and let that grab them from however far away. i'm more specifically wondering about it's uses for punishing things. for example, is there enough time after a blocked chun li super to activate, forward + mk and cancel it into the grab for a big damaging CC (instead of just doing low RH to punish). OR let's say bison does a ranged devil's reverse OR does a headstomp and flies back into you for the punch follow up, does that work while he's vulnerable on the ground (since you're invincible from the CC activation)? what about punishing a blanka ball before he's able to hop back? the timing would be strict, but todo usually punishes a blanka ball by using forward + mk, so why not CC, forward + mk cancelled into grab TIMED RIGHT? see what i'm getting at?

For this one, you don't slide first for a guaranteed CC on someone mid screen from you, you do a heavy wave first and slide immediately once it hits, and cancel the slide before it hits him into anything else you want, like a grab (But preferably a C.HP into your CC), you may be able to cancel the slide by itself, but it's an extremely big risk because the slide hits differently depending on the hit box of the other character i.e. you'll end up tripping him. As for the Blanka ball one, you won't make it in time. No matter how you time it, the pinging alone adds those few frames to allow blanka to hop back. That's rather unfortunate cos Im sick of just sliding him, but sigh...that's all I can do. But, if could Parry into CC.....(ok ignore me)

and your second point about low short xx grab is also bad if blocked. i'm trying to think of the best option to really use his 50/50 after activating up close. if they didn't jump away, you grabbed them and go into your ground CC. if they tried to jump away and you went with low short, what's the best ground CC option after the low short to get the most damage AND will still work if they weren't standing up? because if you just do the normal ground CC, some of the far standing fierces may whiff against shorter characters....

peace

Oh, I originally read the question as meaning "What to do after the low short hits and how to stand him up".

Ok, so you mean, it's part of a 50 /50 and if the low short is blocked instead, whats a good follow up without retaliation? Yeah, C.LK into C>MK into Wave into slide into C.MK into wave into wave etcetc, play it as you see it, he's crouching so you can't use the punches, so instead you have to use the slides. If you get him in the corner then you're fine already.

[MAGUS1234]

Activate c.lk,c.mk xx grab. Pretty sure you can add another c.lk in that to make it easier to see.

[popoblo]

Activate c.lk,c.mk xx grab. Pretty sure you can add another c.lk in that to make it easier to see.

good call, i'm sure the damage isn't that amazing, but it seems like the most practical option for a true 50/50 of activate into grab or low hit. if i remember correctly, didn't you use to play A-todo back in the day? if not anymore, what made you stop playing him and what do you see as his main strengths/weaknesses?

peace

[MAGUS1234]

No, I still play him. I move between him and A-cammy(wtf!?). I think his two obvious strengths are in corner pressure and Vs K-groove.

Corner - THe basics can carry him, get them in there and I usaully do some kind of set-up like; TK wave, land c.lkxxlp-wave, lp wave, c.lk xx wave (wait for reaction). More often than not they roll or super...etc. If they Roll or jump you get free hits.
Or- meaty wave, c.lkxxwave (wait) RC grab.
Or - activate into far gaurd crush or tk gaurd crush depending on their type of alpha counter
These are all safe and when you get to conditioning them, it just gets nasty.

VS K-groove :x
It's too easy sometimes, just slowly walk forward and time waves. I almost don't do anything else but RC grab, when they get super it's up in the air if you get randomly hit or not so just stay alert and dont be scared to random lvl.1 to get distance or random activate to run their bar off. In the corner vs K-groove is the worst, you can LITERALLY do RC waves all day if you want.

Bad stuff- On top of his head! That hard to itch area Todo has and players know it and abuse it with big jumpers(the real issue). Blanka Bison vegas-kinda, Chun..etc all give him problems because in the area he is effective is where they can jump on top of you, therefore you cant use c.FP or Wave antiair and don't even think of using s.FP unless it's perfect. A couple semi-solutions are to use f+FK to keep them in check, and use FP-waves(often they get RC'd through though).Or roll when they jump. Another thing you can do is dash back randoly in anticipation, putting you in c.fp zone that beats bison and chun but trades or loses to blanka and Vega.

Quick Rollers! Tons of them, and it sucks. If they want to turtle and wait for RC waves to roll through it can be a pain in the ass. The answer? Well you can lure them by running for meter, often it gets players antsy and opens them up a little. Or you can try playing non wave footsies(bah!) but it is possible. You can stay far and use mp and fp waves plus f+FK in which some quick rolls are too short to punish, or you can work in the pocket reacting to moves with waves and using his normals like any other character. This is where Vega just becomes a huge nusiance and you have to anticipate and play smart. Smart jump lk and fk smart c.mk and f+fk, and reactive waves mixed with dash grabs can get you the victory. Of course This whole post is assuming he's on point with no meter. When he has meter TAKE RISK vs cahrs with no meter if you want.

ANyway, I'm no pro but I can answer char specific q's and what no if anyone cares to ask.

[gridman]

If they jump ontop of your head you should try jump back fp. that shit is buff

[popoblo]

how do you go about fighting A-bison? i'm thinking stick to low forward as your main poke along with standing strong. RC wave sparingly because roll into jabs into CC will kill you. if he does the headstomp follow ups, just do RC wave if he comes back into you.

and what if bison corners you? that's a bad spot for almost every character, but does todo have anything going for him in that situation?

peace

[Rokiseph]

Which Groove Todo?

[MAGUS1234]

Vs bison w/meter your gonna get cc'd most likely, just try to play a safe gimicky style. Without meter you can throw more waves dash drab attempts and slides.

Something cool I just found - aintiair CC - c.mk, c.mk, c.fp, f.mk karathrow etc.

Basically popo's idea of using the activate slide kara throw gave me the idea and it works hella well. Like I practiced it like 10 times, played a match and landed it. Both of us were like , wow it;s actually good...lol

[RagingStormX]

cant you just c.mk xx grab for aa cc