Dudley for Noobs

[Mucknuggle]

I have just migrated to 3S from CvsS2 (I miss Sagat and the SNK crew!) and I'm trying to learn Dudley. First off, this man gots style! He has one of the best win poses I have ever seen (how many people do you know that have butlers fly in on choppers for tea time?) and he fights with style (unlike another Capcom boxer that I know...). Anyway, I love this guy and I'm asking for some tips from experienced players. Tips on anything in general would be greatm but applications to Dudley would be even better.

Initial impressions:

*Standing Fierce is great -> range, speed, damage, priority
*Crouching Fierce is a good AA
*J.Roundhouse is good for coming in on someone on the ground and can be chained to s.Fierce :)
*Parrying is a bitch to learn how to do!
*Corkscrew Upper seems to be his best super as it fills quickly and is not as punishable as the other two...
*J.Fierce is good against other air moves
*His throw range is horrible.
*I don't know how to use his specials properly...
*Not too sure about the usefulness of his other normals.

Anyway, plz correct me if I erred with any of the above statements and thanx in advance for any tips!

[erco]

I don't claim to be an expert, but here's some helpful (hopefully) input.

Strengths:
High damage combos/juggles
high priority pokes
low arching jump/very good jump ins
400 million different ways to link into super

weaknesses:
throw range
long range low hitting pokes/footsies

I'm sure he has other problems, but his biggest weakness is having really poor footsies (there are ways around his bad throw range).

Basic stuff, jump roundhouse/fierce are good jump ins that can be used early or late to mixup parry timing. dudley has two ranges he works best in: tip of fierce, or c.shortx2 range. Tip of fierce cuz fierce hits pretty damn far, and marginally out ranges a lot of common low pokes. Also, no one gets to jump in on dudley at this range, he just has too many options. c.short is your main offensive range, because then you get to work your potent mixup game. Dudley gets to c.short x2 xx super, towards roundhouse overhead -> super, short swing blow -> super, universal overhead -> super, throw, or blocked poke xx ducking back into range.

c.roundhouse is good against flustered opponents who have an ingrained fear of roundhouse overhead -> super. Since the two sorta look similar, and most people block high against dudley in the mid ranges, c.roundhouse is pretty useful. Why does it suck? It's slow as molasses, and gets beat by just about everything in the game.

[Mucknuggle]

What's his best anti-air, the Jet Upper (is that what its called?) or one of his normals? I've stuffed jump ins with a c.fierce and s.roundhouse and I rarely use his special upper.

[Double Reppuken]

Originally posted by Mucknuggle
What's his best anti-air, the Jet Upper (is that what its called?) or one of his normals? I've stuffed jump ins with a c.fierce and s.roundhouse and I rarely use his special upper.

Jet uppers and EX Jet uppers are good, if the opponent's already thrown out a normal. However, you'll inevitably go up against someone who will try and bait you into using either of the two so they can parry, and retaliate when they hit the ground.

Other options for anti-airs include chains (like, s.forward, s.roundhouse, s.fierce; or s.short, s.forward, s.strong), using a roundhouse/forward duck under to get behind them as they jump towards you and cancel into super from behind, and, of course, using a super.

Chains are good as anti-airs because you have the advantage of controlling the rate of the attack (and, subsequently, the opponent's parry timing), and, you can stop at any time, let them land, and throw or hit with something else. It's very good to keep your opponent on their toes. The problem with using chains is that if you're opponent throws out a move that outprioritizes the firtst hit of the chain, or, it trades, they may have the advantage of being able to hit you with a combo/super when they land.

using the duck under to 'cross over' while the opponent is still airborne is also good because it's so fast that it makes it hard to parry (i'm still not entirely sure it's possible to parry if the direction is changed, at least in the arcade; someone check that for me). The con with this technique is that certain characters may still be safe if you do the duck under xx super (when direction is changed), characters like Urien or Chun-li, depending on your timing. Also, some characters may be able to get out of a situation like that. I have yet to see it, but, it may be possible for Ken and Makoto to get out of it, by virtue of their EX air moves (ken's ex air hurricane kick, and makoto's ex air spin kick).

As for flat out doing super as an anti-air, the same rule applies with chains, only you don't have the advantage of being able to control the timing. Once that puppy is unleashed, there's no turning back. Meaning, that if your opponent can parry all of SA1/SA3, they may turn the tide of the match and will strip you of that luscious victory.

As always, mix it up, keep your opponent guessing what you're gonna do, and above all, be CERTAIN of what you want to do. Any hesitation can cause you to screw up a chain, or, screw up a super motion. As the "domination 101" articles so eloquently put it: "execution is 99% of the battle" (well...i took the liberty of making that phrase). anywho, i hope this helps for those learning dudley.

[tpiidx]

Thanks for the info guys,

I too have just started with 3s (coming from ggxx and mvc2 before that), and i have chosen dudley as my starting character.

I practice at home alot and play at our campus arcade. When i play at the arcade (with better players) i find myself on the defensive side when fighting.

anyways, i just wanted to know if anyone could give me some pointers to get out of traps and cross ups or to just play offensively.

i'd imagine a big part of the problem is i dont really know too many of dudleys links chains and cancels.

if anyone has a tutorial vid or something like that it'd be appreciated as well

or you could just aim me at.. tpiidx

thanks

[Double Reppuken]

Well, after speaking with a couple of people through aim, and noticing that the title for this thread is aimed at novice dudley players, i decided to put up a few posts about what to do when you're just getting your feet wet. I'm going to assume you all know the lingo, such as "s.rh" and "c.fierce", that you know a certain degree of your normals (if not, you can check out an FAQ on gamefaqs or something) and the like, and go on with that. If there are any suggestions on what i should elaborate on, or anything of the sort, just let me know via pm or a post on this thread.

Here goes.

BASICS

First of all, get to know your normals, and get to know them well. I don't care how gorgeous ex mgb combos look to you right now, I promise you that you will be beaten severely if you imitate the combos but don't know what the hell else to do. But back on topic, learn how far/fast each normal is, how much they add to the stun meter, and how much damage they do. Why? because your normals will become an integral part to your mix up game, as you progress. No mix up in the world involved EX mgb when your opponent is blocking, and going to block for the next round or so.

For a list of normals that chain together, go here:

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/thread29953.php

Special moves is our next step. I can't emphasize enough how important it is to know your moves about as well as you do a girl's name. Not knowing your moves (along with a girl's name) could be life-threatening. I suggest you read the articles under the "Domination 101" section of SRK so you get it drilled into your head, and so you eventually give in and say "okay, okay, i get it."

Machine Gun Blow:

The jab version of the machine gun blow is 3 hits, the strong version 4, and the fierce version 5. The EX hits 7 times, with the last two hits launching your opponent into the air. You can combo into the jab and strong versions of the machine gun blow with standing roundhouse, and the jab version with s.strong as well. Chances are, you'll end up using the jab version of the machine gun blow the most. Why? Because it can be used as a) an anti air, b) a tick move, c) something to put pressure on the opponent, d) bait for super. While I don't really recommend that last one, it is a nice card to play every once in a while.

The way the jab machine gun blow can be used as an anti air is when your opponent jumps from far away with the intention of either hitting you, or empty jumping so they can hit you when they land, or so they can parry in the air. If you use a strong mgb, obviously you'll miss and may get hit by something really bad as a reward for your stupidity. The jab mgb comes out fast enough that you're still relatively safe even if your opponent parries all of it. If they decide not to retaliate in the air and land, you then have the option of throwing, using a chain, blocking, etc. Giving yourself a variety of options is key.

As for the EX mgb, it can be comboed into from s.rh, and it's primary use is to set up long juggle combos. It's also a good set up for combos if you're far away from your opponent, and you see certain openings, like Urien throwing a high metallic sphere, or timing it just right to hit chun li right after she does a back+fierce from far away. I advise against it, but the opportunities are still there.

Ducking Straight/Uppercut, or duck under:

Ducking Straight = HCF+kick, then punch
Ducking Uppercut = HCF+kick, then kick
Duck Under= HCF+kick

This move has a multitude of uses: it goes through projectiles (except low ones), it's a good move to get in on your opponent, it can change your direction so you can hit your opponent from behind, and it's even a combo finish.

As an anti-air, this move can be used in a straightforward manner by simply doing the short version of the ducking uppercut, or the like. But, a really nice touch is to wait for the opponent to be close enough to you that if you do a long range duck under you'll go under the opponent but won't get by a normal, so that you can do a motion in the opposite direction, and let out a super. This is what I mean:

Say a ken player, who happens to be facing the left, decides it's in his favor to jump from about a quarter of the screen away, and try to hit you with a jumping roundhouse. You, the astute and right-wards facing Dudley player see that you're safe to do a duck under so that his kick completely misses, and you hit him from behind with rocket uppercut. This is the input you would make:

HC-Right + roundhouse, (as ken flies over you), QC-Left + punch

What happens? As ken releases the kick, dudley goes under the attack and gives him what-for from behind. This situation will pop up surprisingly often, and using such a tactic yields free damage. Obviously, this won't work with other moves, like duck under followed by a changed-direction-mgb would be blocked, and you'd get hit. Same goes with a jet uppercut, or swing back blow. Stick to the super afterward. The problem with it is that you won't always have meter for super, and, you could miss if you don't time it right. Once again, knowledge of your moves helps you a great deal.

As mentioned above, the ducking uppercut can also be used as a combo finisher. A combo that starts with s.rh, EX mgb, can be finished with simply a short ducking uppercut. You'd get pretty good damage still, and, you have the added bonus of being able to cancel into super after the first hit of the ducking uppercut. If your opponent is going to lose just by getting hit by the short ducking uppercut, then don't cancel into super. Conserve your meter when possible.

The Ducking Straight is a bit of an odd fellow. It, too, can be used as a combo finish, and it can cancel into super (though timing is much more strict). In reality though, it's uses are probably limited from the fact that there are better ways to end a combo, and the ducking uppercut will probably make it easier on you to cancel into super. The ducking straight is a so-so move to use to get in on an opponent. If, for example, your opponent loves to sit in a corner and block, then you can cover a lot of distance with a roundhouse ducking uppercut, that uses the fierce button to finish. Experiment! Maybe you'll find a better use for it than I have.

Swing Back Blow (or short swing blow):

The short version does pretty good damage, and is pretty fast. The forward version does about the same amount, but goes farther forward. While the roundhouse version rears back a long way, and goes about a jab mgb's distance forward. The EX SBB does three hits, composed of a forward sbb, an s.forward, and s.fierce, that knock the opponent down. It can be cancelled into either Rocket Uppercut (SA1), or Corkscrew Blow (SA2).

This move has got quite a few good uses, and gives dudley some of that "variety is key" stuff. I've seen a few dudley players use the short SBB as an anti-air, which, if it trades does quite a lot of damage and still pushes your opponent back, and if it gets parried/not parried, you can cancel into super. The trouble is, if you get hit without trading, you could be the one eating super. Still, it's a nice change for people that love to empty jump to get some parries in before the end of the round.

the short and forward versions of the SBB are good also as a follow up to the universal overhead. By "follow-up" I don't mean combo, the two will never connect, but rather, if the uoh gets blocked, or it hits but can't be linked into super, it may avoid and reverse any retaliatory attacks. Say, for example, you do UOH from some distance away, trying to link into super. But the opponent moves a little forward, and you hit him, but there's no way you can connect super, and your opponent knows this so he tries to throw you. If you do the short SBB right after the close UOH, the throw will completely miss, and you'll hit them before they recover, giving you the ability to cancel into super.

The EX version can be used in a similar fashion: as a wake up. As a wake up, the EX version is very fast, and can trade/snuff quite a lot of things. Unfortunately, if it's obvious you're going to use this as a wake up, or that you're going to use a wake up in general, you may get hit out of it just as easily as you could hit them out of their move. If a player using ken catches wind of the fact that you're going to use the EX sbb on wake up, for example, he could just do super, and you'd never trade. Likewise, a hugo player could 360 you into oblivion. It's good every now and then, but don't be too obvious about it.

Jet Uppercut:

the jab JU goes about an inch from the health meter (1 hit), the strong about the top of the timer (1 hit), and the fierce version goes about 2 inches past the top of the timer (2 hits) when they don't hit the opponent that is. If they do, they all go about the same height as the strong. The EX version goes about as high as the fierce, but traverses a greater horizontal distance (about 1/2 to 2/3 screen length). All can be combo'ed into from c.jab, c.short, c.strong, s.strong, s.rh, and for whatever purpose, c.rh.

The EX jet uppercut is a pretty good anti-air. The others are really only good as either a) a combo finish, or b) cancelling into super from a normal. Depending on how you hit an airborne opponent, most of the jet uppercut's only deal one hit, despite the fact that the fierce can deal two hits. The ex jet uppercut is good as an anti-air because, even if it's parried, there's a good chance you'll fly by the opponent and not get hit, for even if you do, you'll fly back, instead of being on the ground and taking a hit.

Cross-counter:

The jab version lasts about 4 seconds before dudley changes back to fighting stance, the strong about 3 seconds, and the fierce about 2. All do about two s.rh worth of damage, unless Dudley gets hit by something incredibly hard, like a Chariot Tackle. At which point it deals damage proportional to the damage taken (so standing strongs won't be met with damage levels as high as if they'd hit dudley with Ryu's hurricane kick). The EX cross counter lasts about a second, comes out relatively fast, and does a damage proportional to the damage taken in, regardless of the move.

I'm not sure about this move because, despite the potential high damage levels, you'll still be sacrificing your own health points. Which is a huge risk, especially if you're playing a high level chun/ken/yun. There are other ways to deal huge damage, i think, and the start up time, combined with the fact that the cross counter doesn't "perfectly" counter all the hits above the waist, make the move less efficient as you progress in your play.

Well, that's going to be it for now. Tomorrow (or whenever thereafter), I'll post on supers, as well as the uses and distancing for universal overhead linking into super. I also plan on adding a section about move partitioning which makes it easier to do things like c.strong, ducking straight; and the core of what makes dudley good: his mix ups. I hope this helps some of the new blood that wants to learn Dudley.

peace out for now.

[Double Reppuken]

Now that I'm done posting about specials, it's time to go into the next category of our "basics" exposé: The super arts.

SA1: Rocket Uppercut:

You get two stocks for this puppy. There's no difference between the versions of the super, they will happen the same way: dudley does a jab jet uppercut that deals two hits, another one that deals one, and a fierce jet uppercut that deals eight hits, for a total of eleven hits.

I think this super is good in many ways: there's quite a lot of meter to use EX moves, the damage is incredibly high, it's tricky to parry if combo'ed into, or if combo'ed from a chain that was used as an anti-air, and the recovery time will teach you not to throw out random supers. I think it's for that reason alone that you should pick this super to start off with. You have to learn early on to use meter wisely, and using a super with huge recovery will help you learn just that. You want every millimeter of meter to do damage without leaving you open.

The advantage this super has over corkscrew blow is basically the damage. In the long run, though, both supers are incredibly good for their own reasons.

SA2: Rolling Thunder:

A combo super of sorts. It could very well be called the "lazyman's genei jin." The more you pound on the buttons after activated, the more hits he does...and the more damage is reduced.

Unfortunately, super two (rolling thunder) brings so little to the table. It does pretty good damage, but you only get a single stock, so you won't be doing too many combos involving EX anything. Likewise, a single stock will mean you'll be so worried about using up meter that you could lose the match before using the super once. It won't catch anything in the air, and if it does, by some stroke of luck, the super will spit the character out, and deal a jab's worth of damage. I don't recommend using this super...ever.

SA3: Corkscrew Blow

Three stocks. The damage on corkscrew blow is good, but obviously not as high as SA1 (think the damage dealt when you hit a shoto with s.rh xx fierce jet uppercut). The jab version stays close to dudley's original position, he won't move more than if you'd pushed toward+forward. The strong moves about the same distance as toward+strong, and the fierce version moves as much as a roundhouse duck under, or slightly less. All deal five hits, or less, depending on how you hit the opponent, and from what distance.

This super takes some getting used to if you're migrating from SA1. There's not so much damage reduction, for the obvious reason that it doesn't hit as many times as rocket uppercut. It's got a faster recovery time than SA1, but you can still be hit by a lot of things if blociked (ken's SA3 comes to mind). It's also a pretty good anti-air on it's own because the hit box is pretty big, and because the hits are so close together that it's harder to parry than SA1. The problem with CS-blow is simply the damage. For all intents and purposes, SA3 is as good, if not sometimes better than SA1. I sometimes choose SA3 against fast characters like yun or ibuki and leave SA1 for shotos, chun, and the like.


Evolving Your Game: Training mode

ADVANCING FORWARD:

The next big step is for you to actually know what to train. A lot of people think that the first thing to learn are the long combos. That's okay, but it's probably step four on the list of things you need to do to get better with Dudley.

Here are some problems I remember coming across when i got started:
1. jumping too much
2. backing off after a single mix-up
3. wasting meter (using wake up supers all the time, etc.)
4. GETTING IN ON OPPONENTS
5. being beaten to a pulp if cornered

So what do you do to avoid such problems? Well, a good way to get rid of the urge to jump because you're being kept away (see 1 and 4) is to practice not jumping at all. I know you're itching to find "new" combos with dudley that deal massive damage, but hold your horses. Here are a couple of good settings on the dreamcast to use when you're starting off:

Dummy setting: guard all (not parry all), and stun is "off"
Super meter: normal
game data: on

A good way to get rid of the jumping business is to move towards your dummy (we'll use Ryu as our dummy) with everything BUT jumps. Here's a nice list of things that propel you forward:
- toward+strong
- toward+fierce
- toward+forward
- machine gun blow
- duck under
- swing back blow

I suggest you take two items from that list, and use them to get in close to Ryu. Obviously, for the specials, some will move you incredibly far, so if you were to use something like fierce mgb, you'd probably be hitting ryu. Yay! mission accomplished, right? wrong. If the Ryu were human controlled, you'd be eating super right after. Same with roundhouse duck under. Toward+fierce seems nice, too, but, you'd probably eat super as well. So what gives? what do you do? Cover shorter distances.

Covering shorter distances is a much safer, much smarter way to get in on your opponent without having to jump. instead of a single fierce mgb, let's use a toward+forward, followed by a jab mgb. Wow, I got some meter, and i'm not eating super, and look! I'm not in a position that could have gotten me killed. Good. Now, use those same two (toward+forward, and jab mgb), and try different patterns, like, two jab mgbs and a toward+forward, or three mgbs, and then nothing. Whatever you'd like, so long as you're getting in nice and easy. Keep practicing this, only now, pick two OTHERS from the list. A roundhouse duck under may not be as favorable when you're close to our buddy ryu, as, say, a toward+forward. If you're realizing this on your own, and playing it out in your head just why it's better that you did a bunch of toward+forwards instead of a jump, then you're learning not only a different way to get in on your opponent, but the start-up and delay for both methods (jumping, or using normals/specials), which teaches you the time you'd have to use opportunities like a high metallic sphere when you're not going to jump.

Eventually, you should be able to see how far you can go with each of those moves, and that's good. But you don't want to always be advancing, because there's the risk of a random super hitting you. SO! Another thing to try is advancing, then stopping, and using something to build meter. That is how our friend, standing roundhouse, comes into play. You throw out a few and move again. Keep in mind, you shouldn't back off until you make Ryu block (remember, he's on "guard all"). Once you hear that sound, back off all the way, and start over. This teaches you to kill one bad habit - backing off too early - and instills a good one - being confident enough to move forward without being scared into backing off. Anytime you back off, or think, "shit, he's gonna hit me!" it means that you're losing control of the situation, and you're in the early stage of panic. This is all favorable for your opponent, and you're not about to hand over the fifty/twenty-five cents you put into the machine all that easy. Confidence, my friend, confidence.

YOUR METER

Now, stop for a moment, and look at your energy meter (not health meter). Ryu's not going anywhere, so give yourself some time to try and add to that meter. Try throwing out a standing roundhouse every three toward+forwards. That meter's getting pretty full, and you haven't even reached ryu yet! That's good. Every so often, take a look at your meter to see how far it's gone along since you started to advance, and i don't mean stare at it blankly, expecting it to say something cool. I mean, give it a brief look, like when you look in a rear-view mirror to see if you can change lanes or not. At this point, since you're advancing AND building meter, you can tell if it's favorable to start your attack: do you have enough meter for a combo with EX mgb? do you have enough for one that ends with a devastating super? You should keep these things in mind at all times. Knowing when you'll be able to activate super puts pressure on the other guy to try and stop you from building meter, and may force him out of hiding to try and hit you. You're now starting to gain control of the situation. Of course, our dummy ryu won't do anything to you, so don't panic and start jumping all over the place, or worse, throwing out random supers.

This is important not just in training mode, but also in a match. If you're close enough that you can picture in your mind a crouching strong cancelling into super, but you're just being kept away by a lot of pokes, don't start jumping, and don't start contemplating premature super activation. Keep on the opponent, and use those standing roundhouses! If you hit them, THEN you can use your meter! Yippee, you're making it hard for your opponent to get out of the corner they put themselves in, good job.

Let's recap: now that you're moving forward with those normals and specials, you're accomplishing many things, namely:
- you're getting out of corners, and getting in on opponents without resorting to a jump that could get you in trouble
- Your learning to build and conserve the meter
- Your beginning to see how to control a situation that at first may be overwhelming.

So now, it's time for our tired but loyal friend Ryu to undergo your next stage in training: the high-low game.

How "high-low / hi-lo" works

A hi-lo game is basically adding to your repertoire a series of attacks that, while keeping your opponent cornered, also reveal opportunities for supers. Such as linking a universal overhead into super, even though it may have at first looked to you like your opponent would never break free from the shackles of turtling.

Now, you still remember that Dudley is a combo machine, right? Of course you do, what with s.rh comboing into ex mgb for juggles, and c.rh doing the same task. Now think about that for a second. Two ways to do the same thing: set up juggles. Wow, I bet if you did some crazy things like throw out a few standing roundhouses and then a crouching roundhouse, your opponent would be completely awestruck at seeing that his defenses weren't so impenetrable afterall. The c.rh now allows you to do something like a ducking uppercut xx super, and deal massive damage. So what's next? Do it again? maybe. Or! you could try that cool looking "toward+roundhouse, s.forward" chain, or hell, you could forget the s.forward, and just link into super! Thus, the hi-lo game is born. This is where it starts, or, one of the many ways you learn to explore the possibilities.

You have in your arsenal three ways to hit your opponent when they're ducking: universal overhead (strong+forward), toward+roundhouse, and a jumping attack. That last one can be seen from a mile away, but what about the first two? Not so easy when you're opponent's been sent to the corner and are being assaulted by a bunch of moves that get you closer, right? right. The awesome thing about all three is that they can all link into rocket uppercut, or corkscrew blow. A link is different from a cancel in that you must wait for the first move to end before the next one begins, as opposed to interrupting the move while it's hitting. This also means that damage reduction isn't as high, which in turn means, you will do damage that will make you, your opponent, or both of you say "wtfx0rz!?"

Of course, you can't keep doing just the overheads, and the c.rh in order to win against really good players. You have to learn other ways to hit. Now that you've learned the "high" end, it's time for the "low" to kick into high gear. For the low side, you have a few chains that are pretty good, when used in combination with toward+roundhouse, s.forward chains, or uohs, because they still keep you close to the opponent, and they don't put you in a position to get hit so easily. These chains are:

c.short, c.strong, c.fierce
c.short, c.forward
c.short, c.short

What's good about these chains is the fact that, not only can they come out fast enough to keep you safe, and not so hard to propel you far back, but, the fact that some are interruptable, and still won't put you in any danger. Namely, the first chain. At first you may not see why, and you probably won't see it for a while, but, the fact that you can choose to finish/not finish the chain means the opponent's still going to wonder what the hell you're going to do next. Say, for example, your opponent's blocking low, and you do c.short, c.strong, c.fierce a few times in the match, so you do start it up again and he's thinking, "damn i'm safe." But after the c.strong, instead of finishing with c.fierce, stop a bit, and do a UOH, or, a toward+roundhouse. Your opponent's now on the verge of eating super.

If you don't have enough meter for a super, don't worry. If they get hit by the uoh/T+RH, chances are they'll block again, so start another string, or, throw. Let your imagination run wild. Once again, variety is the key. If your opponent manages to block the flurry of highs and lows, start off low again, or do a duck under to get in close and throw. Keep your opponent wanting to hit a button, or move a joystick prematurely, so you can also capitalize on their mistakes. Now you're on your way to an awesome dudley.

Well, that's as far as i'll get today, i will post more later. Let me know what you think so far.

[ClosetRemy]

Sorry for not reading your books, in case you already confirmed this, but it IS possible to parry the other direction if you cross under and do a super. In the air it matters not which direction you are; you can always parry both ways.

When on the ground, if you're being crossed up as you're getting up, parrying normally in the direction your character's facing should work, though it looks wierd and doesn't sound right. Certain moves that cross you up normally, like alex's air stampedes need to be parried in the other direction because you start to turn around instants before the move hits.

[CrazyDazed]

Originally posted by Double Reppuken
<snip>

Excellent post! Even though I've played Dudley for a long time, I learned a thing or two! Keep up with a good work, help Dudley players all over the world!!!

I realized my common mistakes were actually jumping too much to advance and backing away when I shouldn't, so I'm going to take your advice and try to implement that in my playing style! :D

I completely agree about your opinion on the supers, SA1 and SA3. I just pick either depending how comfortable I am using against certain characters. For example, I could do better vs Chun Li and Shotos with SA1 instead of SA3, or vs Remy and Makoto with SA3 instead of SA1.

[Double Reppuken]

Alright, I'm back. So far we've discussed the special moves, their applications, moving in, and well, the really important stuff to keep in mind during your matches. This will probably be the last of this series of "Dudley for Novices," as most everything else you'll need to learn will come from experience. Your playing style must differ from this point on, in order to stand out and dominate. Here we go again:

Universal situations:

At first you may not be sure about what a "universal" situation, but here are a couple that I'll be discussing:

- Opponents empty jumping on you
- Opponents hovering over you as you're getting up
- Opponents trying to cross you up
- Turtling
- When you're close to stun
- What to do about Aegis

The first three fall into one basic category, which is, running in circles around you to get you to do something stupid, or, give you a taste of their own hi-lo games. The empty jump, of course, calls for anti-airs, or, throwing. I've talked very little on the topic before because it's going to take a little longer than would be appropriate on a move list explanation.

The anti-air that should quickly come to mind is the Jet Uppercut/EX JU, followed suite by super. These are nice, but if either is parried, you have put yourself in a position that allows the opponent to capitalize with a very damaging combo, or worse, an aegis unblockable set up. That's where Dudley's chains come to save the day yet again. As I've said before, a chain as an anti-air is oftentimes much better than a special move because you can control the rate of the attack, you can interrupt the chain rather than finish, so as to throw the opponent afterward, or hit them after they have screwed up the timing on parrying. What this is all coming down to is basically a mind game.

The Only Mindgame Good Enough to be Called "Friend"

While I usually don't condone mindgames because of my own misfortunes with them, this one is rather safe, and takes much thought. If a Ken user jumps in on you in an attempt to bait you into doing an uppercut so they can parry and hit you with super, then the time is just right to use chains or combos that can throw off their momentum. One very nice chain to use against airborne opponents is s.forward, s.roundhouse, s.fierce. Why? First of all, the s.forward goes higher than dudley's other standing normals, giving you a huge window to work with, and, it's fast enough that if the opponent does get hit, you can duck under and get to them to start your mix ups. Secondly, this chain is incredibly easy to interrupt and throw off your opponent's timing. Say you've been doing this chain three times in a row during a round, so they know what you're going to try to do. Don't finish your chain. Instead, stop it at some point, wait, and see if you can hit 'em with super before they land, or try and hit 'em with a c.roundhouse and start juggles.

This is a good mind game because now your opponent isn't waiting on some stupid pattern that'll get you in trouble, they're wondering whether or not you're going what you're going to do next and won't want to jump. Now you're controlling your space in a much more efficient manner. No longer are they trying to jump at you, they're forced to stay on the ground and retreat in order to plan a better attack. Now your offensive game starts kicking into high gear.

But say they don't learn, but the chain becomes predictable, what do you do? Well, if they're jumping in on you, chances are, they'll try and hit you to beat out your normals so they can get in. Groovy, now just do the Duck Under, change direction, hit super. Bingo, you've just read them "like the sunday papers." If this is at first hard for you to do, then that's fine, try something else. Like s.RH, jab mgb. If they parry the s.rh, the jab mgb is really fast and will throw off the timing. If it doesn't, and they parry all of it, chances are dudley and the opponent will recover at the same time, so you should consider blocking, and waiting for them to throw out an attack as a response, or you could swing back blow.
Lots of options for you = less options for them. Good stuff.

The "or" Mentality:

Now, you're probably realizing that I've been using the word "or" a great deal. The reason being, you've got to constantly be thinking in an "or" fashion. You can't just limit yourself to a single plan. What if the opponent does something so wild that it completely screws up your plans? What then? If you've got the "or" mentality, you're probably going to think, "shit, I'm glad I thought of a back up." You've got to think of all the possibilities. Take this situation for example:

In the span of three seconds, the following happens,
Ken user jumps,
you think, "i'll use a chain," and get ready,
he hits EX hurricane kick,
you panic and block,
Ken user hits you from behind,
now you're lying on the ground because you didn't think about that EX.

Now what could you have done? The situation could have gone more favorably in the following manner:

Ken user jumps,
you think "I could hit him with chains, OR, do a duck under if i see him doing something else"
Ken user hits EX hurricane kick,
You were ready, hit duck under and get away,
or you hit duck under and hit him with super before he lands.
Ken user's on the ground, with you in a position to use your hi-los.

You see how nice that was? In three seconds you didn't make thousands of haphazard decisions as a response, instead, you held a conference at the beginning, got all the proposals, and saw what was best for you. THIS is how you should be thinking the whole game. If you knock 'em down, have five things ready to do. If they're coming at you from the air, think if you're going to reset, chain into super, duck under, etc etc. You also have to have a gameplan if you're on the receiving end of a knockdown move.

What to Do When You're Down

This is a very sticky situation. Dudley has a lot of mixups when he's up, and someone else's down. When the tables are turned, though, You'll eventually fall into a guessing game of their concoction. Blocking is always a good idea, but against throw-happy Makoto, it may not be. That's why there's such a thing as the option select. Now if you're unsure about what option selecting is, go here:

http://www.shoryuken.com/features/s000306.shtml

It's a very well written, very concise article on what it is. Now, how you would implement it in your gameplay is up to you. Sometimes you may not want to option select because a wake up super just might do the trick on a hovering makoto, but it too is very risky. Option select is sometimes very favorable especially on people that are caught in the web of their own momentum. They're in such a rush to do damage to you, that they forget that no offense is perfect (you should keep this in mind, too. Finding your flaws before the other guy does means you'll see other options), and could have the tide turned.

One such example is, say, on Makoto. Say she knocked you down with a throw, as is very much possible. So she's hovering over you with s.strong, and you want to hit her, but you know that if you do something like EX jet uppercut, she'll block, or command grab you out of it. In either case you're screwed. But, if you option select, you have a chance of escaping by throwing out a jab. Once that jab comes out, do another jab, and blam, cancel into super! What if makoto tries to throw you? Well, you just teched, man. Now move in before the Makoto user gets any bright ideas! Always anticipate that you've hit the opponent with the option select jab if you decide to use it. Don't make the mistake of throwing up your arms, and thus letting go of the joystick, and saying something to the effect of "aww, damn it." If you anticipate the hit, and you succeed, there's no downside, right? If it teched instead of throwing out a jab, stop trying to do super, and use a toward+forward or something. If you throw out a super prematurely, you look like a newb (haha, irony), and you'll get your ass handed back to you when you're super is done.

As with all techniques, option selecting is not without its flaws. You won't, for example, get out of Gigas that way, not now, not ever. Will it beat out Alex's EX headstomp? Keep dreaming, and so on. Sometimes it's best to just block. But these are some of your alternatives if you consider doing something else than wait around to die.

Turtles

You will inevitably run into a situation where, regardless as to what you do, your opponent's blocking. It's as if they have a third eye that tells them exactly where you're going to be hitting, and they block, and you accidentally throw out a super, thinking you succeeded. Now you die. This situation will come up time and again, and you WILL be very angry after a while. So, I suggest that if this is ever the case, that you go here:

Controlling Anger - Before it Controls You (http://www.apa.org/pubinfo/anger.html)

With that out of the way. The situation calls for something you will have to have an infinite amount of: patience. Your mix ups will work, and probably even better if you use a throw or two in between. Don't give up. If they're blocking, they're waiting for you to stop so they can hit you. So, if you've seen the Fujiwara vs. RX match at UD Lab**, and you saw that round where fujiwara threw out a thousand jabs, strongs, shorts, and the like (and got a perfect subsequently), you saw what could terrify the horde of turtles: a salvo of attacks that are so seamless that a throw, or a c.short, c.short xx super, or toward+rh link into super will come out of nowhere for them. The key here is not just to have variety, but to be calm, confident, and above all NOT ANGRY.

Remember, you have a lot of tools at your disposal that are perfect for this situation. You have overhead links into super, you have that "s.rh, roundhouse duck under, throw" string that's really fast, and can be finished with swing back blow, or just super, instead of the throw. Such things keep turtles from holding down+back all day. Heel those dogs of yours, and focus.

What About Aegis?

Oh man. Here's the real kicker. Now that we've talked about turtles, it's about time you got a taste of the life. A Urien with more than one bar of super and is charge partitioning on an unsuspecting Dudley player, is the equivalent of a freight train running without its lights at night charging into a deer that's prancing along the train tracks. Charge partitioning is dangerous, and it will cause you to make mistakes you will want to kill yourself over.

One such mistake is seeing Urien walking back, and so, you jump. And so, he hits you with high metallic sphere! Now you're in for a world of hurt: chariot tackle, chariot tackle, aegis reflector, aegis unblockable, death.
Second scenario is dashing in, using EX MGB when he does the same. Now he's going to hit you with c.fierce, chariot tackle, aegis, chariot tackle, unblockable. Holy hell, this guy's on fire.
You get the point.

So now you've got to do something that, believe me, will get your teeth grinding against each other, and that is, SLOWLY getting in. If urien has no meter, then progress rather cautiously. A.k.a, use those normals to get in, be ready to block a.s.a.p, don't jump, try using c.rh every now and then to see if you can get in a combo or two (remember the distance of c.rh, you can probably hit urien from half a screen away).

If urien has meter, you have now become a snail. Don't fucking move unless it's safe. If he's throwing out s.strongs, or c.forwards, s.fierce, be ready to do super. I don't mean roll the stick a million times to let him blatantly know that you're going to do super. I mean, do c.strongs, s.rh's from far away 'cause they're easy moves to go into super from. You can usually see a chariot tackle coming, and that's probably how they're going to try and get in that aegis. If they see that you're a fortress, they'll probably throw a metallic sphere and THEN the aegis.

If the aegis comes out (as it probably will), sit tight, don't panic. Watch Urien like a hawk. You may get baited into hitting Urien because of moves that have so much recovery, like toward+fierce, c.Roundhouse, but they're doing this to get you into that aegis. Don't fall for it. Wait, and remember the time that the aegis lasts. Throw out c.strongs or something from a safe distance away, and that guarantees that if urien tries to hit you, he'll trade, and the aegis will be gone that much faster. It'll make the urien player want to move in, and give you an opportunity to throw his momentum off with a throw or a c.rh, or the like. You're going to have few opportunities, and you're going to want to take advantage of every last one of them.

If you're wondering why I chose Urien to talk about, and not anyone else, well, that's simply because Urien teaches you more about those "universal situations" than any of the other top tier characters. You learn when it's in your favor to be aggressive, you learn firsthand what could happen if you start making stupid mistakes, and above all, it'll teach you to watch out against OTHER people's hi-lo games. Moreso than, say, a Chun-li user.

Well, that's about as much as I can think of that will get you on your way with Dudley. I hope you learn what you should emphasize on, how to be calm during a match, and above all, to improve your game so that you have more fun with third strike. The game truly is fun when you know what you're doing, just like with any of the other fighters (except maybe Tekken 4...grr).

I hope you enjoyed it, and you keep on playing. The fighting game community needs to survive :)

~ Abel Rojas
a.k.a., "Double Reppuken"

** if any of you haven't seen the vid, and for some reason or other, the UD lab site doesn't have the vid anymore, just pm/aim me, and i can set up a transfer.

[JALbert]

Thank you very much, man. Reading these and chatting with you has helped my Dudley a ridiculous amount.

[ClosetRemy]

Great stuff, Rasputin. I hope you make the new york times best-seller list with this new series you have. Just one thing to add (other than saying you're a dick for stealing my quote): I'd like to elaborate on the flaws of option select.

Option select will do a fine job of defending against normal throws, but while makoto's command throw is techable with the normal throw command, I've only been able to tech it once in my life time of attempts.

That being said, option select is good for getting out of scrapes and setting up a possible super if you mash that jab a bit, but might only serve to kara yourself on makoto (if you hit the buttons before her throw starts to come out, the jab will come out and you WILL get thrown).

In addition, the opponent could expect you to do a wake-up uppercut or wake-up anything, for that matter. They will parry high, most likely parry the jab, and that's capital punishment when makoto is involved.

Also, ANY meaty attack will beat out option select. Every time. Especially dangerous with makoto users with SA1, they'll link and there goes half your life.

Just bear this in mind before you go out into the world of 3s with dudley thinking that option select will get you out of all sorts of scrapes whenever you're down and trapped in the corner.

And I second that the chains for anti air are insanely good. If you hit with the roundhouse and stopped the chain there, you can duck under and super before they land! Insanity!11!~~2

[ZERO Shift]

It's guys like Double Reppuken and Closet Remy that keep this site alive. Much appreciation to you two. I'm such a noob with Dudley, even though I've been with ONLY him for about 3 years. So much more to learn, so little tournaments to whoop ass in.:)

[Muskau]

I don't think Rolling Thunder is that bad, standing RK >> rolling thunder and st. sk, fk, sp linked into rolling thunder both do 50% damage.

I also remember someone hitting an opponent out of the air and following with a Rolling Thunder not sure if it was a combo of sorts of just a bait.

Also the Rolling Thunder covers 75% of the screen to punish slow pokes or a unaware opponent, not to mention it can pass through projectiles, although I don't fully know how long the period lasts for or what type of projectiles, maybe someone more knowledgable with Dudley would know.

[KENSHIIN-HIMURA]

dudley is my second fav in third strike since sagat is a no show. i personally use his chain combos since he is the only person in the game who has chain combos. personally for a super art i use his corkscrew blow since u can build ur stocks to level 3 and its easy to combo into. make sure you stay close to mid range to ur opponent since dudley lacks projectiles. and he cant jump that high so watch out when u jump.

[Thongboy Bebop]

Originally posted by KENSHIIN-HIMURA
i personally use his chain combos since he is the only person in the game who has chain combos.

Yun. Yang. Ibuki.

N

[KENSHIIN-HIMURA]

meh i guess your right about them. i forgot that they could also chain.

[StreakSRM]

Ryu, Ken, Sean, Elena, Oro, Necro, Urien, and Gouki all have at least two-hit chains :p

[KENSHIIN-HIMURA]

but dudly actually has 4 hit chains:o

[AneurysmX]

Ryu has a chain?

or u are just counting short short

Edit : oops ya I forgot about that fierce roundhouse chain

[thedude.com]

ryu

fierce-hook XX round-house
can't add jump in ,if that happen , it change to fierce-uppercut...which cannot chain round-house
this 2 hit is damaging, fuckin stuns...

dudley ...
jump-in-round-house ,1(jab),2(strong),3(forward ) xx EX-MGB ......

[kal el]

dude...

Dudley's jab, strong, forward chain -> EX MGB will only connect if the opponent gets stunned midway, (i.e., before the combo gets to EX MGB). forward just doesn't have enough hit stun to provide EX MGB ample time to get "there." you can, however, substitute jab MGB or strong MGB for the EX version. those 2 work just fine, with or without the opponent getting stunned beforehand. if you want some flash, do jab, strong, forward -> duck xx super. looks pretty good :cool:.

[KingRaoh]

here's some so. cal Dudley (VictoLy) matches...

under 3s requiem

http://www.bustkaratedojo.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=16

[Kaiser Durden]

I primarily use Dudley to work on the stun gauge with those chains of his. And when the opponent is blocking it's machine gun punches to chip off damage and to get into throw range as well.

Switch up the chains with combos to keep you opponent guessing and learn to parry, don't rely on Cross Counters.

And don't jump unless you see a 100% sucess of landing a combo.

Corkscrew Blow works nicely since there is 3 to store up on ...which also means you can use some EX moves without wasting a chunk of power from a 2 or 3 stock gauge.
that way you can do an EX move cancel into a Super Art (Dudley deals devestating damage when EX cancle into Super Art...plus it looks so damn stylish).

If you see an attempting a jump-in attack:
1.Parry-critical to learn
2.EX Jet Uppercut-if you have the power stocked in your gauge
3.HCB+K-if you aren't in a corner this is a wise choice of defense plus you can cancel into a super art (Rocket Uppercut hell yeah!)from it to let them be wary of jumping in on you
4.Cross Counter-thia should be a last resort ...if you got some Super Art power to spare use EX Cross Counter.

If you have an opponent who's "sky happy" mix these tactics up and tax him/her hard.

Dudley can gather a ton of Power for the Super Art gauge by his chain hits,plus if you use Corkscrew Blow by the time you do a couple of chains on him he should be Dizzied and you got a full Corkscrew Blow to use in a combo with.And when they are Dizzied then you jump in on thier ass make that combo count.
suggested jump in combo:
jumping Roundhouse,standing Strong,Fierce Jet Uppercut(EX version if possible), Cancel into Corkscrew Blow,

When throwing use the "Gut Punches"...it helps to stun them more.

One last thing, it may sound funny but if they are playing "keep away" with fireballs parry (parrying projectiles is the easiest to learn of all parries) and Taunt them cause they forget that dudley throws a rose at them and they get a little tick damage from it but it should mainly use to screw up thier timing and stopping them in mid move of a special or even a super...I've seen it happen and a player can get so screwed up ,you could sneak in a Machine Gun Punches."CHIPS AHOY!" on them if they block and then use the Gut Punches throw on them.:p

[Double Reppuken]

Well, i don't think that the anti-keep away tactic you thought of is as good as you may think. while a rose can be good in certain situations, doing it from far away could be suicide (think SA3 urien, SA1 Ryu, and SA2 Chun). Plus, Remy, arguably dudley's primary counter character, has that charge buffering crap going for him. To throw a rose is an invitation for him to land a few more hits then running away again.

The rose followed by mgb/EX mgb thing used to be pretty big, until people got smart and could parry the mgb easily, when they realized that Dudley has to wait for the rose to hit, too. I guess it can work on people who're just about dead, but, i wouldn't take that risk. People are already desperate enough as it is when they're down below 1/4 life.

Also, how are you going to be 100% sure of success in the middle of a match with someone that's on an equal level as you? No offense, I understand that you mean to say to jump in when it's safe, but, if you only jump when you're absolutely certan that you'll connect, then you probably focus so much on seeing those opportunities that you can miss out on the ground game stuff. Jumping can be pretty good if you've got the momentum going, though.

Lastly, Rocket Uppercut may not have as many stocks as SA3, but, the amount of EX meter used to do ex mgb combos can easily be gained back after a few s.RH's. so while I think you're kind of dead-on about using Corkscrew blow for its multiple stocks, it's possible to play with SA1 in such a way that "meter deficit" problems go away.

Good stuff, though, just thought I'd bring those notes up.

[BillyKane]

I agree, jumping with Dudley is fine in a lot of situations IMO (except against the obvious examples such as Chun with SA2, etc...). His jump is quite low and fast so it's hard to anticipate and punish. Also the fact that he can mix up the timing on his jump-ins so well and that they can hit low pokes easily means that most players are going to take a defensive stance when Dudley jumps in. Teching becomes a huge risk because of short swing blow into super, and using anti-airs can be risky since Dudley gets so much damage off EX MGB combos if he parries. When Dudley jumps in, you better block or get the hell outta here because chances are you're going to take a shitload of damage if you don't.

Don't get me wrong, I'm obviously not saying that Dudleys should be jumping around everywhere around the screen because his anti-airs are quite solid and he's good at keeping a lead, but I think Dud is actually one of the characters who can get away with jumping a lot to create opportunities when he really needs to.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Kaiser Durden
stuff :confused:

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

Dudley's low jump is generally a great thing, but it actually hurts him against Oro.

One reason is that it leaves him highly susceptible to standing roundhouse. This move is a good anti-air but it loses to moves that hit at a downward angle. The only thing Dudley has that fits the bill is a super-early jump roundhouse, and if he gets too used to that then start parrying. Or just duck under it and proceed to enjoy the free chicken combo. :D

The other reason is that his jump makes it very easy for Oro to dash under him and land the chicken combo. With most characters you have to be extremely far away for this to work, but Dud allows you to be at a more realistic fighting distance.

Just my .02,
Josh.

[kal el]

yup.

Dudley has a licence to jump. but as said earlier, too much of it can hurt Dudley. i'd like to add that jumping in against Ken is also dangerous. Ken can do an early far standing fierce which is essentially super safe and he can also dash under and hit with c. shorts -> Shippu. i guess this also works for Ryu.

if Dudley's jump in is blocked, he's still very much in control due to the fact that he can go into a super art high or low. people tend to block low immediately after blocking a jump in attempt, so go for towards + roundhouse -> super if your jump in is blocked. you can then vary that with c. shorts -> super or c. roundhouse -> juggle.

regarding anti-airs, i find it better to use either standing strong or standing roundhouse as you can chain/buffer into something else if it is parried all the while dictating the parrying pace. if people start to attempt multi-hit parries, just stop a hit early and wait for them to land and either throw them or do Short Swing Blow. you can even try to hit them low. TONS of options. i'd just save the EX Jet Uppercut for something else.

[YellowS4]

give em teh bidness elbowww :)

[thedude.com]

i see thanks kal ...

he's still good without combo-chains

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

Kaiser Durden, my fellow Clevelander: Ok, dude, I *seriously* need to hook you up with some Japan videos. No offense, but there's some wrong stuff in your post...like, for instance, most characters (if not everyone) can punish Machine Gun Blow if they block it. Here are some other bits of advice:

- S.roundhouse is Dudley's strongest cancellable normal. Use this in your jump-in combos rather than standing strong or whatever. It also makes a pretty good poke.

- When throwing, neutral is the worst one to use in most cases. It tends to do less damage than his other throw, and (more importantly) the other one is better at getting them into the corner.

- Another thing you can do for anti-air is s.strong or s.roundhouse. If your opponent parries this, you can cancel it into MGB or Corkscrew Blow to try to screw with them.

- HCB+K is actually a great offensive as well as defensive move. If you're at an advantage and your opponent tries to throw or do some other attack, this will dodge it and hit them. You can cancel it into super on reaction for great overall damage. I think it's safe on block as well, so this is a very good gamble to take every now and then.

- Jumping is good for more than just combos. J.roundhouse has excellent priority at its tip, and on block it puts you at advantage and allows you to force your mixups. If it hits you can always get a Rocket Upper when you land (though not with Corkscrew, you have to wait a little bit before you do the roundhouse there).

You're not off to a bad start from what it looks like, but we seriously need to play sometime. =)

-Josh

[Kaiser Durden]

[i]You're not off to a bad start from what it looks like, but we seriously need to play sometime. =)

-Josh [/B]
I just started warming up to SF3ts again ,I am primarily a Neo Geo player but I have been known to pick up a Capcom game here and there.
So far my stategies for Dudley work for him when I use him Besides...I don't give away all my tactics.
I usually seriously play Yang,Ken and Hugo but lately Dudley has caught my fancy.Usually my hardest matches with him are Chun Li ,Yang and Yun so I am giving my stategies based on bouts against them.
Besides just cause I don't play the sames as everyone else dosen't mean I am wrong.

Yeah...we totally need to get together Josh.

[sundu]

I don't think he's saying you're wrong. It's just that some of your tactics aren't as safe as you may think (or at least there are safer alternatives). I agree. You seem to have a good grasp of how to play dudley. However, since we haven't actually seen you play, we don't know how much you mix up or what mindgames you use. All we have is what you post, which is probably why he wants to play you sometime, to see how you integrate what you say into your overall game.

There's no hatin' in here.

I generally use corkscrew blow when I play for real and rocket uppercut in casual. Lately I've realized that rocket seems to have really high priority (I used it as a meaty today haha). But seriously, is this true? I think I remember kal el saying he wanted corkscrew in his av but it would get eaten up by a hyper bomb (maybe I'm making that up).

Also, I used to do s.rh, rh duck and super if it hit, or throw if blocked. However, people started catching on and teching or throwing me. So now I use s.rh, mk duck because the super will still hit, but you stay out of throw range.

[exodus]

Originally posted by Kaiser Durden
Besides just cause I don't play the sames as everyone else dosen't mean I am wrong.

no, but because everyone else plays and sees high level gameplay and has established more optimal ways to play. since you don't play the same as them, you are playing against weaker competition, and thus, would get raped by higher level play. :p

[kal el]

:D...

Rocket Uppercut does have more priority than Corkscrew. i really don't know what determines a move's priority, but seems to me that anything that remotely resembles the *ahem* almighty Shoryuken automatically gets high priority. i remember Mopreme saying that Sean's Shoryu-Cannon will beat Ryu's Shinshoryuken :eek:. weird, but hey, that's 3rdStrike for ya.

back to Rocket Uppercut and Corkscrew Blow, one example i can give ( besides Hyperbomb snagging Cork ) is Yun's shoulder move ( srk motion-------don't know the name ) when in Genei Jin. if Yun does the move and Dudley does Corkscrew, they will either trade hits ( ala KO winning over Daigo in "game" 5 of their best of 7 in last year's EVO ) or Yun will beat it cleanly. now if Yun does the same move and Dudley goes into Rocket Uppercut, Dudley will snuff Yun completely. regarding Hyperbomb beating Corkscrew, i didn't test that out personally, but SlimX did. when Slim was making my avatar, i asked him to put Corkscrew Blow since that was the SA i was using at the time ( i've since been converted to Rocket :lol: ). So Slim tested it, and yeah, Alex grabbed Dudley. so when he suggested i just have him put Rocket, it worked. Dudley smacked Alex. there ya go :D.

[exodus]

super arts "priority" is dependant on the invincibility of the supers. frame data is the key. shoryu cannon beats shin shoryuken at same activation because shoryu cannon has a 10 frame invincibility after activation, while shin shoryuken only has a 9 frame invincibility after activation.

another determinant factor is the "hitbox" calculation. because 3S uses a "perfect hit" detection (read: there are no real hitboxes), an uppercut will logically beat out more things than a straight punch. for the most part, the perfect hit collection works very well (which is why i prefer 3S over bullshit such as CVS2).

corkscrew blow has 1 frame invincibility and hits the frame afterwards...
rocket uppercut has a 4 frame invincibility and hits on the 2nd of those 4 frames...

thus, corkscrew is vulnerable to getting hit, while rocket uppercut is not. get it?

[AneurysmX]

Rocket Uppercut beats out Shin-sho too

[J Blaze]

Originally posted by AneurysmX
Rocket Uppercut beats out Shin-sho too

Exodus:
I want a Rocket Uppercut vs. Shin Shoryuken frame breakdown analysis please.

[kal el]

:confused:

i'm a tad lost here regarding Rocket Uppercut snuffing Shinshoryuken.

Rocket has a 4 frame invincibility and hits on frame #2 of those 4 frames, correct?

Shinshoryuken has 9 frames. so how exactly does Rocket beat Shinsho?

just need some clarification, thanks :D.

[IronFist]

who cares what super beats what, the likelihood of you doing rocket uppercut and another guy doing shinsho at the same time is like .0001%

if that's something you have to be concerned with then :confused:

[kal el]

no one's talking about whatever else, so why not learn something new, yeah?

someone posted about rocket beating shinsho. i just wanna know how it does it. no harm in that.

[VictoLy]

in famous ricky tan voice: you canadians are so funnay

both supers are pretty much instant, if they're ever done at the same time, the super that comes out second usually wins. if it doesn't win, guess it means the second super came out too late while in the invincible frames of the first super. who cares, but theres a possible answer.

[exodus]

by the time ryu loses invincibility, he's already way up in the air. dudley on the other hand, does a short uppercut first, which places him under ryu. with that in mind, ryu's fist never hits dudley, therefore dudley hits him.

[kal el]

:D

cool. thanks. just wanted to know. that wasn't too difficult, now was it?

[AneurysmX]

Opps I think I made a mistake

ShinSho beats Rocket Uppercut

[exodus]

it normally does, yes. the instance when rocket upper beats shinsho is as i described. ryu and dudley have to be as close as possible to each other, and dudley has to activate 2nd.

[AneurysmX]

wait wait wait... no....

they traded hits..

[exodus]

no they don't -_-

[C Royd]

AneurysmX shut up

[AneurysmX]

You're so mean guy

[SatanaXXX]

Goooooood shit Double Reppuken, I was just searching for a beginners' guide like that. I agree on Dudley being better on the ground, mainly because he has great pokes and anti-airs.
I heard that he has some problems against projectiles spam, is it true?

[epsilon_]

Duck under projectiles.

[Double Reppuken]

Originally posted by SatanaXXX
Goooooood shit Double Reppuken, I was just searching for a beginners' guide like that. I agree on Dudley being better on the ground, mainly because he has great pokes and anti-airs.
I heard that he has some problems against projectiles spam, is it true?

I think the only projectile would be Remy's low LOV. Other than that, yeah, you can duck under a projectile.

[SatanaXXX]

Lol! Didn't know you could duck them.
Thanks :D

PS: if I duck at medium distance what's the best thing to do? Is EX hcf P a good punishment?

[epsilon_]

If you duck a projectile, and are in super range, super them.

[DooM]

or if ppl dont have a crossup (chun-li) you can duck under which crosses under and super by doing qcb+p then... really good for SA3, but you need to do it LATE with sa!