Kyo mixups

[pain]

IMO Kyo HAS to get in control and fairly aggressive in order to be effective. I've never seen an effective turtling Kyo, which brings me to the whole point of this post. = ) I'm looking for new mixup "patterns" or trick that I could add to my arsenal since I haven't picked up Kyo until recently. (Actually I started using him in the beginning, but I hadn't figured out how to deal with Sagat and Blanka with him yet so I kinda just dropped him until a month ago) Anyway, here's what I've figured out so far (I wish there was Kyo footage so that I'd at least have SOME idea if I'm playing him correctly) after a bit of experimenting.

My favorite b&b:

cLK, cLP, cMP........... this combo leaves you plenty of time to see whether it gets blocked or not. Coupled with a few runXXcLK I find I connect with this a lot. If it does connect you have the option of: XX into qcf+mp, qcf+mp, and any kick or
XX into qcf+mk, any kick, f+HP or super

for the second option I like the f+HP over an uppercut because I find it dizzys really fast.

On with the mixup:

After they're on the ground this is where the fun begins:evil:
The first thing I usually do is close the gap in a few ways:
-hcb+LK
-rdp+LK
-If I'm feeling like being flashy, qcf+lp, hcb+lp does the job too

With the rdp+kick (I think it's called the R.E.D. kick??) you can mix up the timing and you will either hit them or land just before they wake up. I personally like to whiff and then try to connect a b&b since the opponent will usually block high when they see the overhead. Another thing I like is mixing up with a second rdp+kick; many people I've played hesitate because they think they'll eat a 6 hit b&b and they'll get hit with the overhead.... I don't do this very often.... only when I anticipate a low block.
Anyway, these 3 methods for closing space usually set up for a throw. Both throws are pretty useful and I'll randomly use them... with the punch throw you have to close space again, with the kick throw they're right next to you and you can do a smalljump crossup d+HP (I learned this from Buk's SBO log... thanks Buktooth :D ) ......

Aiit, it's getting late and I'm probably rambling.... final tidbit that might be useful is make them block qcf+K, K and use that as bait to land a super... Kyo looks really vulnerable after the kicks, but the recover actually isn't that bad.....

So yeah, it'd be much appreciated if people can share some Kyo strats with me since I'm sort of clueless as to whether I'm using Kyo properly......... Ooo, and last thing, please tell me if any of this stuff is bullshit because I don't want to misinform anyone (since I'm not Kyo expert) and I want to improve too.... Thanks:D

[Mummy-B]

I've been screwing with Kyo in A Groove alot recently, and he's got alot of mix ups.

One that I've pulled off a bunch and I like is to tick into his kick throw, DP+lk over the dead body and cross it up, Activate and CC right through a whiffed wake up for whatever. You can also RC a move in place of the activation (double kick juggle).

One that's a little tricky because of the timing is kick throw, mk RED Kick over the dead body. If you don't do it at the right time, you'll either end up having the RED Kick never come out, or you end up NOT crossing up the dead body and either hitting them in the front or eating a wake up. But it's good because since the move is so close, it LOOKS like you wouldn't cross up the dead body.

For some reason I have trouble linking the c.lk, c.lp, c.mp, but I have no problem linking c.mp, c.mp, aragami. don't ask me why

[pain]

icic... mk RED kick crosses over perfectly, I didn't know that = P...

anyway, the thing with the clk, clp, cmp is that you have to do the command relatively slowly and link them all with the same timing... it's like try to connect clk with clp as slow as possible while still comboing and then follow with cmp at the same timing... I kinda count 1-2-3 in my head when I do it.... of course the combo doesn't hit every character.... I think it misses on Geese since I kept whiffing the cmp the other day.... I guess for those characters just do clk, cmp XXchain (but it seems harder to link consistently) ......... cmp, cmp has sort of the same timing as cammy's version right?.... neways thanks for the reply:)

[johnaero]

this is a good post so far...i'm starting to learn kyo, so some of my questions may seem a bit scrubby. having prefaced with that disclaimer:

does this combo:
cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.mp xx qcf+mk, mk

i always thought that the cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.mp link pushed you to far away so that when you buffered into the hop kick (i forgot the name), it wouldn't combo. i can get cr.lp, cr.mp xx qcf+mk to combo...but that extra jab seems to put me to far away. am i just not quick enough? or does it only combo on big characters?

also, the kick throw into cross-up mk red kick...is this a universal cross-up? or does it only work on big characters (honda, zangief, etc.)? i know mummy-b said the timing was tricky, but i went into training mode to try this on kyo as the dummy, and it either hit in front, or i just ended up on the other side. i've seen it down on honda though. i just wanted to see if it was an option against everyone, so i don't waste time trying it, only to find it doesn't actually hit everyone.

Originally posted by pain
Anyway, here's what I've figured out so far (I wish there was Kyo footage so that I'd at least have SOME idea if I'm playing him correctly) after a bit of experimenting.

dj-b13 made a "tricks of the trade" chapter on kyo that has a lot of nice mix-ups you might like. also, i have a clip of otaku vs shiro, as well as some casual play matches of otaku that you might be interested in. his kyo is awesome. i got them from direct connect. if you want, i can try and send them your way, but i don't know where i can host them.

thanks in advance for any help.

[DarkNall]

Originally posted by johnaero
this is a good post so far...i'm starting to learn kyo, so some of my questions may seem a bit scrubby. having prefaced with that disclaimer:

does this combo:
cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.mp xx qcf+mk, mk

i always thought that the cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.mp link pushed you to far away so that when you buffered into the hop kick (i forgot the name), it wouldn't combo. i can get cr.lp, cr.mp xx qcf+mk to combo...but that extra jab seems to put me to far away. am i just not quick enough? or does it only combo on big characters?

also, the kick throw into cross-up mk red kick...is this a universal cross-up? or does it only work on big characters (honda, zangief, etc.)? i know mummy-b said the timing was tricky, but i went into training mode to try this on kyo as the dummy, and it either hit in front, or i just ended up on the other side. i've seen it down on honda though. i just wanted to see if it was an option against everyone, so i don't waste time trying it, only to find it doesn't actually hit everyone.


You're right -- c.lk, c.lp, c.mp x qcf+ mk, mk does not connect;the mp pushes them too far. It might work in the corner though.

I think the mk red kick Mummy was talkin' about isn't suppose to cross-over hit them ( I don't think it can anyways), instead just to hop behind them, making them think whether if they should do a wake-up or block it. Then you can just do a c.lk into another kick throw, and so on. His mix-up game reminds me a lot of strider+doom trap for some reason -- looks UGLY and works very well if done correctly.

A few links I reconmend practicing for Kyo are:

c.mp, s.mp
c.mp, c.fp
s. mp, c.fp
c.mp, s.fk

Those links lead to some damaging combos; that is, if you can even get in close against blanka and the likes.:p

[Mummy-B]

Yeah, sorry for the miscommunication.

The mk RED Kick isn't supposed to cross up and hit them, it's just supposed to cross up the dead body like DP+lk does. It's just a tricker looking dead body cross up because it looks like it shouldn't cross them up at all, since you hit the front if you do it too late.

[johnaero]

Originally posted by DarkNall
A few links I reconmend practicing for Kyo are:

c.mp, s.mp
c.mp, c.fp
s. mp, c.fp
c.mp, s.fk

Those links lead to some damaging combos; that is, if you can even get in close against blanka and the likes.:p

those are good...but i'm just more sucessful with the cr.lp x 2, cr.mp. i can't link anything off the cr.mp with consistency, put i'll practice some of those. if i can get cr.mp, cr.fp with some consistency, that would be vicious.

and thanks darknall and mummy-b for clearing up my confusion with the mk RED kick. in dj-b13's kyo vid, he had that kick throw into RED kick shown under the cross-up section, and it connected against honda.

[pain]

Yeah... I just realized I made a mistake in the first post... it was late at night.... what I do is clk, cmp, qcf+mk, k, etc...... the extra jab leaves them out of combo range even though it's close enough to hit when it comes out.... oh wellz....:p

[Mummy-B]

Originally posted by johnaero

and thanks darknall and mummy-b for clearing up my confusion with the mk RED kick. in dj-b13's kyo vid, he had that kick throw into RED kick shown under the cross-up section, and it connected against honda.

Yeah, Honda is one of those wierd sprites. Just like how EX Yuri in CvS Pro had the only infinate in the game on ONLY Honda's crouching sprite.

[pain]

So yeah...any more mix ups?.... I find that I might be abusing s.RH, but it's such a good move:lol:. Stuffs practically everything so I throw a couple in after a blocked b&b....... During a match I'm basically using c.mp or s.rh as pokes until I find an opening but I don't know if there's anything else that relatively safe to do...

[otaru23]

Originally posted by pain
So yeah...any more mix ups?.... I find that I might be abusing s.RH, but it's such a good move:lol:. Stuffs practically everything so I throw a couple in after a blocked b&b....... During a match I'm basically using c.mp or s.rh as pokes until I find an opening but I don't know if there's anything else that relatively safe to do...


One thing i notice with good Kyo players is that along with their mix-ups they tend to mix-up alot of his cr.lk's, so just dont think about his small jump down fierce when the enemy is on the ground, or hop over their body and go into his b&b, instead hop over the body do one cr.lk then slam em, or cr.lk once pause for a second and do cr.lk again and if it connects then go into the b&b
and what groove do you play kyo in?

[pain]

Originally posted by otaru23



One thing i notice with good Kyo players is that along with their mix-ups they tend to mix-up alot of his cr.lk's, so just dont think about his small jump down fierce when the enemy is on the ground, or hop over their body and go into his b&b, instead hop over the body do one cr.lk then slam em, or cr.lk once pause for a second and do cr.lk again and if it connects then go into the b&b
and what groove do you play kyo in?

Yups... what I usually do is empty low jump and then try to connect a c.lk...... = )


I use him in K-Groove:evil: ..... Cammy, Kyo, Geese.... I like him in K groove, but A-groove is probably his best groove. Both Cammy's and Kyo's roll yells "punish me" so I don't really need thier roll and I get small jump and run.

[Iczer one]

Kyo's groove chart imo >> KPA - CN - S

It's all about which you prefer of the first three grooves.
K-Kyo is just too powerful. Raged a machine that can destroy you with one 12000-damage-combo. (my groove of choice :cool: )
A-Kyo has really really good and flexible CC's and the ability to RC.
P-groove has parry into BnB, way too good.

C has HUGE lvl.2-cancels (~ 11000 damage), while N is just his allrounder groove with the most mobility.

S is still okay for him. He can still play a good ground game and his lvl.1 punch super is at least a 100%-anti-air. Dodge into s.HK is powerful.

His BnB >> c.LK, c.MP xx qcf + MK, K, dp + HK
I think this one does 31 stun to the opponent, so two of them can lead to a dizzy. Stunning the opponent is the key to victory :D
If the BnB is blocked you can always go for >> c.LK, c.MP xx qcf + LP - s.HK

[white shadow]

:eek:MG!!! Newsflash PEEPS!!! In case you guys didn't know this I just found out that Kyo's J.D.FP outprioritizes Blanka's Ball and his AA Ball!!!:evil: And any Kyo player knows a knockdown can lead to some crazy mixups!!!:evil:

BTW in every match vid with Kyo I notice that when they combo the Aragami chain they ALWAYS end it with the Kick instead of punch, why?:bluu: And what moves/normals can punish a blocked Blanka Ball?:bluu: Thanx in Advance!!!:)

[johnaero]

Originally posted by white shadow
BTW in every match vid with Kyo I notice that when they combo the Aragami chain they ALWAYS end it with the Kick instead of punch, why?:bluu: And what moves/normals can punish a blocked Blanka Ball?:bluu: Thanx in Advance!!!:)

if you end the aragami chain with a punch, it's possible the opponent can block that last hit (since it doesn't combo), or worse, punish you. ending with the kick does combo, so that's why it's done.

i've got some mixups that i hope people can give feedback on.

after a completed aragami chain (qcf+p x 2, k) immediately do either:

1) qcf+lk
2) dp+lk

Doing 1) immediately will have you land on the other side of your opponent as he/she is getting up.

Doing 2) immediately will have you land right in front of your opponent as he/she is getting up.

Both moves have good recovery so by the time you land, you can continue into your cr.lk, cr.mp xx whatever, or bait the wake-up and then punish.

Another mix-up is after a knockdown, get right next to your opponent. as he/she is getting up, throw a meaty cr.mp xx qcf+lp, hcb+p, p. most people will block low, and the hcb+p is an overhead, so you'll end up with a two hit combo including the punch on the ground. more importantly, they'll be knocked down again so you can continue your mix-up games. however, if the opponent blocks high, and you blindly complete the chain, you're gonna get hurt badly.

[white shadow]

Thanx man, but I'm sure I've seen it combo three times before?:bluu: BTW, could you tell me what moves/normals can hit a blocked Blanka Ball?:bluu:

[DarkNall]

Originally posted by white shadow
Thanx man, but I'm sure I've seen it combo three times before?:bluu: BTW, could you tell me what moves/normals can hit a blocked Blanka Ball?:bluu:

All his qcf+p moves, but must block the ball while standing not croutching.

Lvl 2(I think) and 3 of his qcb,hcf+p supers.

Standing roundhouse kick. You might have to walk a little bit forward inorder to hit.

There are probably more, but those are the few I can think up right now.

[Mummy-B]

Originally posted by Iczer one
Kyo's groove chart imo >> KPA - CN - S


I'd put him in A, C, N, P, K, and S in that order.

Any Groove that lets him RC is like free damage.

A Groove he is just fucking beastly. With RCs, he can combo into CC for free almost.

C Groove, nothing needs to be said. Get full meter and fuck shit up.

N la ti da same shit. He's got short hop though which is fucked on crossup games and mind games and pressure.

P is good because he is one of the few characters that can really do a shitload of damage to someone without using meter, and he can meter build. That makes him a very deadly battery char.

K... meh it's okay. Landing a b&b with a full Ikari Gauge can hurt. Alot.

S.... uh... well... you CAN play him in S....

[white shadow]

Originally posted by DarkNall


All his qcf+p moves, but must block the ball while standing not croutching.

Lvl 2(I think) and 3 of his qcb,hcf+p supers.

Standing roundhouse kick. You might have to walk a little bit forward inorder to hit.

There are probably more, but those are the few I can think up right now.

WOW his QCF P hits!!! :eek: Thanks man that's useful, I always tried the S.HK but it never seemed to work but since you said walk forward OK. And his Flame super worx that's good.

Actually Mummy B I actually have to disagree with you on this one. K-Groove is touted as his best because of the almost free guard crushes you get in rage mode because of his good mixups and his roll sux. Also because his JD counterattacks like J.D.FP knocksdown and ca set up more stuff which could lead to 50-70 damage.
:D

[Mummy-B]

Whatever floats your boat.

Check this shit out though -

tick into kick throw, mk RED Kick deadbody crossup, Activate CC.

If they do a wake up DP, invincibility frames cover your ass and you're safe. If they block, guard crush that shit down.

I think [fierce DP -> roundhouse qcb+k (2 hits)] xN is a pretty decent guard crush, you can cancel it so there's no holes. For some reason, whenever I do [fierce DP] xN Kyo gets pushed back too far around the fifth or sixth DP.

[DarkNall]

Originally posted by Mummy-B
Whatever floats your boat.

Check this shit out though -

tick into kick throw, mk RED Kick deadbody crossup, Activate CC.

If they do a wake up DP, invincibility frames cover your ass and you're safe. If they block, guard crush that shit down.

I think [fierce DP -> roundhouse qcb+k (2 hits)] xN is a pretty decent guard crush, you can cancel it so there's no holes. For some reason, whenever I do [fierce DP] xN Kyo gets pushed back too far around the fifth or sixth DP.

Have you tried it with strong punch DP instead? It's similiar to Iori's jab dp guard crush custom.

[white shadow]

Originally posted by Mummy-B
Whatever floats your boat.

Check this shit out though -

tick into kick throw, mk RED Kick deadbody crossup, Activate CC.

If they do a wake up DP, invincibility frames cover your ass and you're safe. If they block, guard crush that shit down.

I think [fierce DP -> roundhouse qcb+k (2 hits)] xN is a pretty decent guard crush, you can cancel it so there's no holes. For some reason, whenever I do [fierce DP] xN Kyo gets pushed back too far around the fifth or sixth DP.

Hey that's some nice stuff, gotta test it out.:evil: BTW your not interested in Maki anymore?:(

[Mummy-B]

Not in A Groove. I use her only in K, and I'm screwing with a new A Groove team now. Plus, getting a little used to Kyo now will help me make the transition to SvC.


I haven't tried the mp DP for guard crush, only for anti-air CC. I do almost the same thing, [mp DP -> whiff qcb+lk] xN. I'll try it out and see if that doesn't have as much push back.

[white shadow]

Originally posted by Mummy-B
Not in A Groove. I use her only in K, and I'm screwing with a new A Groove team now. Plus, getting a little used to Kyo now will help me make the transition to SvC.


I haven't tried the mp DP for guard crush, only for anti-air CC. I do almost the same thing, [mp DP -> whiff qcb+lk] xN. I'll try it out and see if that doesn't have as much push back.

No I didn't mean in A-Groove, I meant in the Maki thread.:p

[RagingStormX]

Kyo has some crazy mix-ups, but I perfer him in K and C. C.lk, c.lk, mp xx qcf mk, mk, (whatever) connects on E. Honda, Raiden, Zangief, but misses on Chnag I think.

[popoblo]

hey pain, if you want to see kyo played HELLA effectively, get on the Go For Broke Hub on Direct Connect (the link is somewhere in the fighting game discussion, probably buried), and download matches from a guy named makoto. he plays only P-kyo/vega/R2 cammy, and he fucks shit up.

[caliagent#3]

Remember kyo can link a c.fp off of his c.mp which leads to his aragami chains. This does really nice damage

[Mummy-B]

Originally posted by caliagent#3
Remember kyo can link a c.fp off of his c.mp which leads to his aragami chains. This does really nice damage

wtf? didn't know that.

Why in the hell didn't they just call this fucker Link. he has enough

[DarkNall]

Originally posted by Mummy-B


wtf? didn't know that.

Why in the hell didn't they just call this fucker Link. he has enough

Because Cammy beat him to it. :bluu:

Oh

And her's are a lot easier to do. :p

[Mummy-B]

Originally posted by DarkNall


Because Cammy beat him to it. :bluu:

Oh

And her's are a lot easier to do. :p

... aside from her name being Cammy? :confused:

[caliagent#3]

Originally posted by Mummy-B


wtf? didn't know that.

Why in the hell didn't they just call this fucker Link. he has enough

Yeah i didn't know that until a few weeks ago. I was just messing with kyo and i was like "holy shit!". So now u can add c.mp, c.fp, qcf+p,qcf+p,hcb+p as one of his new BnB's

[RagingStormX]

Kyo has alot of links:

c.lk, c.lk, c.mp
c.lk, c.lk, s.mp
c.lk, c.lp, c.fp
c.mp, c.mp
c.mp, s.hk
c.mp, c.fp
c.mp, c.hk
c.mp, any light attack
c.lp, close s.hk
c.mp, c.mk

That should be all of them.
:cool:

[Mr. Sparkle]

... does that mean you tick a cr.lk into his HCB+K throw?

I tried that and it actually combos, but it didn't strike me as practical at all. (F, DF, D+lk, DB, B + rk)

I've also connected a qcf-p into HCB+K during casual play - I don't remember whether it combo'ed or not, but it got them into the corner pretty fast.

HCB + K makes for a pretty cool-looking (but not his best) lvl 2 cancel.

[DarkNall]

Originally posted by Mr. Sparkle
... does that mean you tick a cr.lk into his HCB+K throw?

I tried that and it actually combos, but it didn't strike me as practical at all. (F, DF, D+lk, DB, B + rk)

I've also connected a qcf-p into HCB+K during casual play - I don't remember whether it combo'ed or not, but it got them into the corner pretty fast.

HCB + K makes for a pretty cool-looking (but not his best) lvl 2 cancel.

By, "tick into throw," means you do some sort of jab or short, then as soon as they recover from the blockstun, you throw them. For Kyo, you should be using his roundhouse throw to setup his mix-up game.

I'm pretty sure qcf+p into hcb+k can't connect, unless you're doing a custom or something.

[Lv.32 Z-Ism Rose]

What are some good uses for the Aragami over head punches? I especially mean qcf+mp>hcb+p>p (or k for the flying kick) and qcf+mp>qcf+p>p. I try to use them, but they always block the overheads since they don't combo. What are good uses for these?
Thanks!

[DarkNall]

Originally posted by Lv.32 Z-Ism Rose
What are some good uses for the Aragami over head punches? I especially mean qcf+mp>hcb+p>p (or k for the flying kick) and qcf+mp>qcf+p>p. I try to use them, but they always block the overheads since they don't combo. What are good uses for these?
Thanks!

They're only useful if your opponent blocks low, they deal more damage than qcf+p x 2, kick. Possibly one of his strongest corner juggle combos(qcf+p,hcb+p,p), and they can't tech roll out of it if it connect.

One good way to use them is do 1 c.short(or 2), qcf+jab, hcb+p, p.
Another trick you can do is when they block the qcf+p, wait to see if they try to counter, hcb+p, p to snuff their attempt.

[Mickey D']

Good thread guys....

[ninja of fire]

this thread is very informative thank you. all of you.:D