ST Semifinal Bracket Debacle [Archive]

Shirts

08-09-2003, 04:08 PM

Brief Rundown: ALL ST Qualifying pools were done...(Cole was DQed for not showing up for his match), then they made the 32 man semi-final bracket...then Cole decided to show up...more than an hour late...Re-did Cole's pool which changed the structure of the Semi-final bracket...NICE!

This is not a personal attack on anyone, just the way the things worked out, I guess...maybe it was out of the control of the Evo Staff. But if someone is late more than an hour and the only excuse they can give is "I woke up late", then they should not be allowed to continue and should be DQed...Now, in the case of Cole, I didn't have a problem with him being allowed to continue, but he should have at least been given a loss. Definitely not fair to the players who were in his pool over and those who were already in the Semifinals and affected because they had to partially restructure the bracket. For the players that were on time and followed the schedule and waited patiently for their matches and made sure they woke up on time (regardless if they partied too much the night before) and acted responsibly, it is pretty much a slap in the face.

I do remember reading during the Orientation that the srk staff would "SHOW NO MERCY" regarding DQing players who were not present when their matches were called. And, I remember SRk staff saying "NO EXCEPTIONS" when they would warn people about reporting to their pool on time...I guess that didn't apply to Cole...

I could understand DQing Cole would be a hard decision considering the past 2 years he's won ST, but at least he could have received a loss or have had to play Daigo, just to get back into his pool or something, then try to qualify. Plus the fact his excuse was horrible. Originally, Wizard DQed Cole and he was sticking by his DQ of Cole, but the Cannons had the final say.

Regardless, the Cannons and the rest of the SRK staff did a good job running the tourney.

Kuro

08-09-2003, 04:21 PM

Yeah, that kinda is weird. Showing up an hour later, and not being DQed? That's pretty leniant. I remember back in SBO, Taka was DQed for showing up just a little late.

Alphastorm

08-09-2003, 04:28 PM

Doesn't matter how you look at this. There will be controversy. If Cole is really disqualified then people will bitch USA didn't send their best representative against the japs.

Since the japanese did send real ST players this year, I'd think it's wise they let cole play. Either way, people will bitch but atleast now we have our best contending for the title.

Quad

08-09-2003, 04:37 PM

No one should be bitching about not sending our best players.

He obviously isn't the "best" if he's sleeping in hours past his matches. Just like Sanford, and getting arrested. If you fuck up and don't compete, you aren't the best. You are a could-have-been.

The best is someone who has the skills to compete and does compete.

Shirts

08-09-2003, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by Alphastorm
Doesn't matter how you look at this. There will be controversy. If Cole is really disqualified then people will bitch USA didn't send their best representative against the japs.

Since the japanese did send real ST players this year, I'd think it's wise they let cole play. Either way, people will bitch but atleast now we have our best contending for the title.

Hahahaha, Japan sent their best ST players? Yes, Daigo will probably win Evo2k3 ST, but he's only one of their best ST players...There were no other Japanese ST specialists at Evo2k3.

Alphastorm

08-09-2003, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by Shirts

Hahahaha, Japan sent their best ST players?

I never said the japs sent their best. I said they sent real ST players. It was on going argument that ohnuki doesn't play ST. Daigo plays ST so might as well give it our best.

Originally posted by Quad
No one should be bitching about not sending our best players.

He obviously isn't the "best" if he's sleeping in hours past his matches. Just like Sanford, and getting arrested. If you fuck up and don't compete, you aren't the best. You are a could-have-been.

The best is someone who has the skills to compete and does compete.

You wanna bet? I know people will complain if we didn't send our two time champ against Daigo.

Cole slept in late but that won't diminish his skills. Actually, it's the opposite, cole got more sleep so he has the edge.

Quad

08-09-2003, 05:14 PM

Originally posted by Alphastorm
You wanna bet? I know people will complain if we didn't send our two time champ against Daigo.

Cole slept in late but that won't diminish his skills. Actually, it's the opposite, cole got more sleep so he has the edge. [/B]

My point is they have no right to complain. Cole fucked up. They should complain at Cole, not Evo.

Alphastorm

08-09-2003, 05:22 PM

I'm not giving it a right or wrong. That issue will be debated to death if this rumour is true. Right now I am content USA has Cole representing.

SlaserX

08-09-2003, 06:09 PM

I think it's bullshit... in MvC2, if you werent there, you got DQed instantly.... they say "pool 10 show up or be DQed" and guess what... people got DQed. I dont care if you're Daigo or JWong, if you dont have the decency to show up on time, you're not worthy of playing.

RAT_BASTARD

08-09-2003, 07:28 PM

Originally posted by Shirts
...but at least he could have received a loss or have had to play Daigo, just to get back into his pool or something, then try to qualify. Plus the fact his excuse was horrible. Originally, Wizard DQed Cole and he was sticking by his DQ of Cole, but the Cannons had the final say.

Or they could have just straight up DQ'd him.Way to enforce the "rules".Its nice to know that it seems to be ok to bend them for only the more well know players.I mean he had a year to prepare/plan for this tournament, and he has nobody to blame but him self if he fucked up and over slept or whatever it was.Bottom line is, in a tournament of this size with people from all over the world comming, it makes a bad statement to others who took the time and money to travel and show up on time and all.I could maybe see something like this happening at a local tournament but at something this big it just sucks ass.
:lame:

Ex Matt

08-09-2003, 07:45 PM

This is total bullshit imo. I think Cole should donate at least half the winnings he takes from ST AND CvS2 and give them to the people that originally won his qualifying pool or some shit. That is definitely not fair.

Iceman

08-09-2003, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by Alphastorm
Doesn't matter how you look at this. There will be controversy. If Cole is really disqualified then people will bitch USA didn't send their best representative against the japs.

I don't care because this will not effect me in any way shape or form being I'm on the opposite side of the country. But this quote was the first thought that entered my mind when I read about the happenings. This is srk. Had he been permanently DQed, people would have either bitched that he should have been allowed, or more likely it would have been an excuse used many times in the US vs. Japan ST debates. Now, people are still going to either bitch because Cole got special treatment (which will further fuel and "elitist" theories).

The point, it was a lose-lose situation for the adminstration. Personally, I don't agree with their decision, but I don't envy them at all.

TeamDan

08-09-2003, 08:14 PM

The worst tournaments in the history of Texas are ones where Cali showed up here and were involved somehow in the running of the brackets.

MarkyMark

08-09-2003, 08:40 PM

The situation is grossly unfair.

I can completely understand wanting to keep Cole in the tournament.

But I don't think Cole should get off scott free. If he wins any money he should forfeit it, plain and simple.

CgHuReInS

08-09-2003, 08:45 PM

If this is true, there is no reason I think that Cole should have been allowed back in. Rules are rules. If you don't follow them, tough. It sets a very very bad precedent.

Kai1

08-09-2003, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by Ex Matt
This is total bullshit imo. I think Cole should donate at least half the winnings he takes from ST AND CvS2 and give them to the people that originally won his qualifying pool or some shit. That is definitely not fair.

Yea man cole is hella cool but come on. How long are people gonna put up with tournaments that have rules only appiled to those not known as well as others. Just aint right.

stream3

08-09-2003, 11:17 PM

the issue is moot now cuz cole was eliminated.

Running Uppercut

08-10-2003, 09:18 AM

It doesn't matter that he was eliminated. What about the people that he eliminated that showed up on time? I don't know how many times it was stated on the Orientation and throughout the tourney that if you aren't there, oh well -- no exceptions. Well, I guess that Jason Cole with worthy of the exception. Mr Wizard did the right thing, but the Cannons were more worried about hookin a buddy up than running a fair tournament:o

margalis

08-10-2003, 12:38 PM

So why bother having rules then?

In fairness to the Cannon's, this is pretty much the worst possible situation they could be in - the person breaking the rules is the two-time champ.

That said, what happens when Joe Blow shows up an hour late for MVC2?

It's like the boy who cried wolf. how many times have tournaments said "show up late and you are DQd" and how many times have they gone back on that?

KaiSing

08-10-2003, 12:47 PM

I was disqualified from my first Super Turbo match because i was in the middle of my Marvel match when they announced it and I apparently didn't hear it. But at least I went to losers. Nonetheless, I guess being a 2 time Super Turbo champ has its benefits.

JIVE TURKEY JONES

08-10-2003, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by KaiSing
I was disqualified from my first Super Turbo match because i was in the middle of my Marvel match when they announced it and I apparently didn't hear it. But at least I went to losers. Nonetheless, I guess being a 2 time Super Turbo champ has its benefits.
That's just retarded. You were actually there though. :lol: Cole wasn't even on the premises when it was his turn. And I'm sorry, but that is unfair. I appreciate everything the Cannons have done. But to say "no mercy, no exceptions" but still allow him to play becuase he "woke up late" is kind of fucked up.

Jive Out!

EDIT: If this is all true, props to Mr.Wizard for sticking by the rules, regardless of who is in question.

Raz0r

08-10-2003, 02:06 PM

If you people want to make a statement that will really effect the way the Cannons run tournaments, boycott anything affiliated with SRK. Be it the website, IRC channels, or tournaments, if it has anything to do with SRK do not bother with it. It will show that the Cannons should see what's important as a whole and that this ruling is completely unfair to the other ST players.

Just my opinion.

SlaserX

08-10-2003, 02:10 PM

I still think it's bullshit. If it werent for my bro, i would have been DQed from MvC2 alltogether because i was playing CvS2 at the time (yeah... CvS2 went fast compared to mvc2) Still... i dont care if you're justin wong, if you're late, your DQed... props to Mr. Wizard, and i hope more people bitch about this.

TigerGenocide

08-10-2003, 02:15 PM

So according to SlaserX and KaiSing, in addition to totally fuckin over people for showing up on time and gettin their shit straight that cared about the tourney, they were penalizing people for being in other tourneys (CvS2, MvC2)? That seems really stupid, they shouldnt have had them overlap like that. If you guys were just doin casual then please, let me know.

KaiSing

08-10-2003, 02:24 PM

Well, while nothing will change the fact that I was pissed about the dq (since i felt i could've done well in my bracket), I really don't hold anything against the Cannons strict lateness policy. When you take into account what happened last year with the one game finals for marvel, they have to do everything possible to try to get this tourney going. Even with this policy enforced, the tourney still runs overtime. As sucky as it is, some people have to get screwed by it. I just happened to be one of them. Some stuff just can't be avoided when you hold a tourney of this size. Other than this dq, i really enjoyed this tourney. It's the most fun I've had all summer.

LimeGreenPatato

08-10-2003, 02:31 PM

I remember i told my boss i woke up late once....and i almost got fired.

SlaserX

08-10-2003, 03:55 PM

Ponder

08-12-2003, 10:10 AM

Originally posted by TigerGenocide
So according to SlaserX and KaiSing, in addition to totally fuckin over people for showing up on time and gettin their shit straight that cared about the tourney, they were penalizing people for being in other tourneys (CvS2, MvC2)? That seems really stupid, they shouldnt have had them overlap like that. If you guys were just doin casual then please, let me know.

I wasn't there, but this is how I understand it went down:

1) Cole was in ST bracket 16. He never shows up and is DQed.

2) Cole shows up later and wants to get back into the tournament. We refuse, as he's already been DQed and we're finished.

3) Cole asks all of the people in the pool if they would mind playing it over again so that he would have a chance to qualify. Everyone agrees.

Was this a HUGE favor to Cole? Yes, of course. I don't see how this screws anyone over, though.

As far as "penalizing people for being in other tourneys", there were a few times where we DQ'ed someone for being late only to learn that the reason they were late was because they were competing in another tourney at the time. In every instance that I knew about, we simply moved that person to a later pool.

However, no tournament is ever run perfectly and sometimes mistakes happen. It's possible that some people were DQ'd while they were playing other games and didn't have it reversed. In the future, I recommend that everyone let both judges know what's going on if you're scheduled for a conflict so that you don't accidently get DQed, and if something like this does happen, bring it to inkblot or myself so we can make things right at the tournament instead of having to explain things online.

Thanks.

SlaserX

08-12-2003, 10:55 AM

Well that's cool and all, but that means it would have pushed the semis to later, but that didnt seem to be a problem... ST is a quick game anyways (compared to MvC2)

Gandido

08-12-2003, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by Ponder

I wasn't there, but this is how I understand it went down:

1) Cole was in ST bracket 16. He never shows up and is DQed.
Thanks.

Cole was in bracket 15, IIRC, which was the same one I was on. Now, hella people from that bracket, including myself, didn't show up in time. Not to say I had an excuse, but I was up until practically 4AM because of the late MvC2 pool 12 which I was on, which is understandable because everyone had to wait for me back at Potter's to leave, and we all were mad tired and didn't wake up that early. But nonetheless, they replayed the pool, and what's done is done.

Masaka

08-12-2003, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by Ponder

However, no tournament is ever run perfectly and sometimes mistakes happen. It's possible that some people were DQ'd while they were playing other games and didn't have it reversed. In the future, I recommend that everyone let both judges know what's going on if you're scheduled for a conflict so that you don't accidently get DQed, and if something like this does happen, bring it to inkblot or myself so we can make things right at the tournament instead of having to explain things online.

Thanks.

Good advice there.

I ran a couple of the MVC2 brackets, and some people came to me and told me that they had to play in a couple of other brackets at the same time. In those cases, all I did was write down the names of the people who were playing in multiple games at the same time, and the games they were in. That way when their name came up, and they didn't respond to the cattle call, I could just look at the names and see where they were supposed to be. A few seconds to tell the judge "Hey, I have to play in X as well, so look for me there if I'm not here."

There probably should have been an announcement along these lines, even though it seems like a pretty obvious course of action. Hindsight of course, but lessons for next year.

K-Nasty

08-12-2003, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by Ponder

3) Cole asks all of the people in the pool if they would mind playing it over again so that he would have a chance to qualify. Everyone agrees.

Did he ask all the people in the other pools if they would mind?
Obviously his possible qualification for the top 32 would affect other people's chances to make top 8.

But since he didn't win this year, does that mean next year he won't be allowed such leeway?:confused:

zuggzugg

08-12-2003, 02:26 PM

Well since nobody knows the reason why I was late execept for cannons and myself, i'll let people whine and bitch about what happened. Not worth explaining if people are so quick to say what happen and then cry about it.

I had my chance to stop Daigo, I choked like every other elite player in this years tourney. So i'm sorry for lettin US down in ST. Most of you people don't even know what its like to have one of the best players in the world about to be beat, and then missing the final move to kill and lose.

We went and asked everyone in the bracket if they mind re-doing it, so it wasn't a decision by the cannons alone. So if you wanna complain about letting me back into tourney, then you should ask everyone in my pool why they let me back in. Because it was them as well as the cannons i have to thank for at least giving me a shot.

AfroCole

ps. I was not late because i fuckin over slept to let you people know.

zuggzugg

08-12-2003, 02:52 PM

oh yeah, actually the real reason why I didn't get DQ'd....

....Is because i'm BLACK!!!!

It's a black thing you wouldn't understand. ;)

AfroCole......special because he is black.

Reza-O

08-12-2003, 03:35 PM

I think when you enter a tourney aiming to get first place, you should be prepared the worst possible case scenario bracket. Which means if you wanna win, you have to be able to take out everyone in the tourney. Sometimes the bracket is easy, sometimes it's easy as hell but that would come with the territory and wouldn't be an issue if you're prepared for worst case.

My 2 Cents.

Spider-Dan

08-12-2003, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by Ponder
3) Cole asks all of the people in the pool if they would mind playing it over again so that he would have a chance to qualify. Everyone agrees.

Was this a HUGE favor to Cole? Yes, of course. I don't see how this screws anyone over, though.
Ponder,

As tournament admin, it is your responsibility to be the "bad guy" and enforce the rules. What you allowed to happen (putting it in the hands of the players) is Very Bad.

Let's suppose that I'm in that pool, and I get an upset victory over, Painter or something. Now Cole comes along and says that he wants to replay the pool. I am forced into the position of:

a) having to replay every match that I won, and hope that I can beat everyone THAT I'VE ALREADY BEATEN
b) being shouted at and blamed as the reason why the US lost in ST, because I wouldn't give up my wins so Cole can enter (keep in mind, this is in so.cal, and there will be a LOT of shouting, possibly a fight)

What kind of position does this put the players in that have already qualified out of the pool? They either have to give up their hard-fought spot, or be labeled as a pussy and blamed for US loss in ST. And of course, everyone who DIDN'T do as well as they expected in the pool will be all for replaying it... why wouldn't they? Free chance to try again.

It is not my job as a player to have to decide to give up my own wins. It is your job as admin to enforce the rules.

arcticninja

08-12-2003, 04:04 PM

umm...people need to stop speculating and spreading rumours. If you weren't there, then shut the fuck up.

What happened is that all but 3 people in pool 15 did not show up on time. I can't say for sure, but I belive the reason is that most people didn't know how early the pools were starting on Saturday. I myself almost got DQed from 3S because I was under the impression that pools didn't start until noon. I asked Ponder on Friday night when the pools were starting on Satuday and he said noon. So I wouldn't be surprised if people in ST pool 15 didn't even know they were late.

So rather than DQing the entire pool, they played it out later when most people showed up. Regardless, I think it was a fair solution to the problem. It's not like Cole was given special treatment. Everyone in pool 15 was allowed back in. The only people that have a right to complain were the 3 people that actually showed up on time, because 2 of them initially qualified for semis, then suddenly didn't qualify.

That's all I have to say on this particular subject.

stream3

08-12-2003, 04:05 PM

so who got screwed out of a spot as a result of cole qualifying

MrWizard

08-12-2003, 10:51 PM

Well, you see, the problem is, when you ask everyone to replay the pool you are gonna get everyone but 2 yes answers guarenteed. All the people that lost of course are gonna replay the pool, makes them get quadruple elimination. the only 2 that cole ever had to worry about were Seth Killian, and a random japanese player that had won the bracket. Seth must have had his reasons why, but i dont blame him from a player point of view.

Ponder

08-13-2003, 09:48 AM

Originally posted by Spider-Dan

Ponder,

As tournament admin, it is your responsibility to be the "bad guy" and enforce the rules. What you allowed to happen (putting it in the hands of the players) is Very Bad.

By that logic, the many, many people who were DQed for not showing up on time should have remained DQed. Had we done that, a LOT more people would have been upset. If we can accomdate people without upsetting anyone or affecting the outcome of the tournament, they why shouldn't we? This isn't the US Open or the NBA Finals here. It's an event run by the players, for the players, and a Nazi like adherence to the rules doesn't benefit anybody.

Let's suppose that I'm in that pool, and I get an upset victory over, Painter or something.

Instead of supposing, lets deal with the facts. This was the only pool that was replayed, under extreme extenuating circumstances, and the only people complaining now are those who have very little idea of what happened and weren't even affected by the outcome.

Maxstah

08-13-2003, 09:54 AM

Man, if either of the two Cannons ever run for some sort of political office they will have my vote.

Ex Matt

08-13-2003, 10:03 AM

I heard from someone that was there, that John Choi lost 4 times in CvS2 and was let back in. Is this true ??

MikeC

08-13-2003, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by Ponder
Instead of supposing, lets deal with the facts. This was the only pool that was replayed, under extreme extenuating circumstances, and the only people complaining now are those who have very little idea of what happened and weren't even affected by the outcome.

Thats true but it does leave a stigma to the whole thing. From the outside, it looks like the staff broke their backs in bending the rules so that a friend and big name player can play despite major rule breach. If he was say, Joe Blow and he came up to whoever with the excuse of "I slept in please redo the pool", I think you guys would have laughed in his face and sent him packing.

moop

08-13-2003, 10:40 AM

what's worse is having the judgement replay for daigo then immediately changing the rule to allowing judgement. I have no idea why they did that, at least be consistent. There are arguments either way but it looks like they just said "oh shit ricky won but we had to overturn it, lets make sure that won't happen again."

lftrpllr

08-13-2003, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by Ex Matt
I heard from someone that was there, that John Choi lost 4 times in CvS2 and was let back in. Is this true ??

It was just a bracket mistake where two players played each other by mistake, so the win/loss was erased.

-wes

Spider-Dan

08-13-2003, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by Ponder
By that logic, the many, many people who were DQed for not showing up on time should have remained DQed.

Letting players back in (possibly into losers) != replaying a finished pool

Had we done that, a LOT more people would have been upset. If we can accomdate people without upsetting anyone or affecting the outcome of the tournament, they why shouldn't we?
Uhh, unless the people who got DQed go two and out, and every match has the same results as the first time you played the pool, it DOES affect the outcome of the tournament. Someone lost their qualifying spot as a result of this pool being replayed. This is the point.

If you are going to let people start voting on whether or not matches are replayed, things will get really fun really fast.

Instead of supposing, lets deal with the facts. This was the only pool that was replayed, under extreme extenuating circumstances, and the only people complaining now are those who have very little idea of what happened and weren't even affected by the outcome.
What are these "extreme extenuating circumstances"?

You know very well that I'm not trying to say that this was a rampant problem in the tournament. I am quite aware that (thankfully) only one pool was affected.

The point is, this type of action is *far worse* than say, mid-tourney FLOATING, or TIES, and yet the mere mention of those words at a tournament would cause a firestorm. As the admin, you passed the decision of whether or not the bracket would be replayed to a Japanese player who flew thousands of miles to play, and may not feel comfortable/safe saying "No, I want to keep my wins." (I sure as hell would not feel safe saying no in that situation.)

Shrek

08-13-2003, 02:29 PM

Personally I think most of the people who have their undies in a bunch are just looking for something to argue about....

Gunter

08-13-2003, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by crossover
Personally I think most of the people who have their undies in a bunch are just looking for something to argue about....

I agree. And the thing is, THERE IS VERY LITTLE TO ARGUE ABOUT. EVO2k3 went off with VERY few hitches. There was this, there was the Ricky/Daigo 3S match, and there was the GGXX joystick sabotage fiasco. In ST, the Cannons let the players decide. Dan is opposed to it, but I can see where the Cannons are coming from. They want the tournament to be enjoyable for the players, so they left the decision up to them. I could care less either way. In 3S, they did what the players decided AHEAD of time... not allowing judgment. It screwed the US in the end, but that's their fault. The problem was solved by democracy, but the Cannons realized that it was not economical to replay matches so in the future IF THERE IS A 3S TOURNEY (and personally, I could care less... take it away again because all people do is BIIIIIIIIIIITCH! :mad: ) the judgment will stand.

The GGXX problem was just stupid. I think they should have listened to MY solution, and just brought the guy to see Jaha. :cool:

inkblot

08-13-2003, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by Spider-Dan

As the admin, you passed the decision of whether or not the bracket would be replayed to a Japanese player who flew thousands of miles to play, and may not feel comfortable/safe saying "No, I want to keep my wins." (I sure as hell would not feel safe saying no in that situation.)

That whole paragraph is incorrect. Whether you know it or not, you don't know wtf you're talking about.

FMJaguar

08-13-2003, 10:40 PM

Originally posted by Gunter

The GGXX problem was just stupid. I think they should have listened to MY solution, and just brought the guy to see Jaha. :cool:

BANG THE MACHINE 2 free with evo dvd purchase!

Spider-Dan

08-13-2003, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by inkblot
That whole paragraph is incorrect. Whether you know it or not, you don't know wtf you're talking about.

...?

Originally posted by Ponder
2) Cole shows up later and wants to get back into the tournament. We refuse, as he's already been DQed and we're finished.

3) Cole asks all of the people in the pool if they would mind playing it over again so that he would have a chance to qualify. Everyone agrees.

Originally posted by MrWizard
All the people that lost of course are gonna replay the pool, makes them get quadruple elimination. the only 2 that cole ever had to worry about were Seth Killian, and a random japanese player that had won the bracket.

So if the above two posts are accurate, someone had to go to the Japanese player that won the bracket and say, "Can you replay your games (giving up your wins) so that this player can rejoin the tournament?" What's he supposed to say to that?

If all the the above is true, I don't understand how my paragraph was incorrect.

NKI

08-14-2003, 09:59 AM

If I'm not mistaken (and I might be), didn't Shirts initially qualify in that pool, and then, after it was replayed, he did not qualify? I remember he was pretty upset after losing to Seth...

Isn't that why this whole thread was started?

-Nick

Shirts

08-14-2003, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by NKI
If I'm not mistaken (and I might be), didn't Shirts initially qualify in that pool, and then, after it was replayed, he did not qualify? I remember he was pretty upset after losing to Seth...

Isn't that why this whole thread was started?

-Nick

No, I qualifed regardless. My first semi-final opponent was supposed to be Matasumi (O.sagat), but instead I had to play Seth.

Reza-O

08-14-2003, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by Shirts

No, I qualifed regardless. My first semi-final opponent was supposed to be Matasumi (O.sagat), but instead I had to play Seth.

Did you end up losing to Seth or winning?

Shirts

08-14-2003, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by Reza-O

Did you end up losing to Seth or winning?

Lost to Seth, sent to Loser's bracket; Beat Viscant, Bob Painter, then lost to Sirlin (when he had no energy twice!) LOL.

Shirts

08-14-2003, 11:48 PM

Question: Why did I have to play Seth for my first match in the semis, if I was still in the winners bracket w/no losses and Seth had one loss under his belt after losing to Cole?

Just curious, not sure how you guys set up the semi brackets (i.e. Winners matched up against Winners, etc)

cmutt

08-16-2003, 12:29 AM

ok, as 1 of the 3 members of pool 15 that actually was present on time... i'll give my thoughts on this.

pool 15 was the 3rd ST pool of the day so it wasn't that early when it started. probably around 12:30 or so. the fact that alot of people didn't show up for pool 15 (or pool 16) probably reflects more on players just being too tired and not caring enough to show up. perhaps knowing that seth and cole were in the bracket helped with their decisions not to show up. who knows, who cares.

we waited as long as possible for cole but it just got too late and no one knew when he'd show, so we played it out. seth and i both wanted cole to be there so we could have our chance at him. especially me, because i wanted a rematch with him from our close match at B5.
anyway, seth and matsuda(sp?) qualify.

later on cole shows and asks seth and matsuda about replaying the pool. they both agree, and they ask me and 1 other person who showed up for pool 15 how we felt about it. here's my take on this:

we knew this situation was gonna be screwed up anyway you looked at it. either way it was going to have controversy. we just felt that the best thing for the entire tournament was to have the 2 time champ involved with a chance. if we kept him out, then everyone might look at the ST tourney like, "well cole wasn't there so we don't know what would've happened", and we just didn't even want to go there. it seemed to serve the best interest of everyone just to let the pool be done over.

was it a bad decision? i honestly don't think so. sure, there is some degree of favoritism and whatnot, but the alternative seemed far worse. the cannons let the players decide on this particular case and it really came down to seth and matsuda. i think their decision, followed by ours was definitely within the spirit of competition and was made with all the best intentions.

i do agree with shirts though that perhaps he should have been penalized with a loss. you know, gotta give to get.

peace

Shirts

08-16-2003, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by Shirts
Question: Why did I have to play Seth for my first match in the semis, if I was still in the winners bracket w/no losses and Seth had one loss under his belt after losing to Cole?

Just curious, not sure how you guys set up the semi brackets (i.e. Winners matched up against Winners, etc)

Kuni

08-19-2003, 09:45 PM

After replaying pool #15, winner of winners' was Cole and winners of losers' was Seth in that pool.
The mistake was that Seth was placed, somehow, to winners bracket in semifinals where he lost to Choi first, then another EXTRA loss to Dave Spence.
So, Shirts wasn't supposed to meet Seth in winners bracket.
There were 17 winners' and 15 losers' and I don't know how they were placed into the brackets.

NanoBoi

08-19-2003, 11:11 PM

Kuni is cool!

The Lew Bros truly believe Kuni should qualify for the next Evo. He deserves it because he's the only one we saw picking Zangief in the whole tournament. TRUE GUTSY ZANGIEF SKILLS!!!

Also, Kuni is always fun to hang out and chat with. :D

~Rob speaking in Randy's SN

Mad C.B. Tree

08-20-2003, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by Kuni
After replaying pool #15, winner of winners' was Cole and winners of losers' was Seth in that pool.
The mistake was that Seth was placed, somehow, to winners bracket in semifinals where he lost to Choi first, then another EXTRA loss to Dave Spence.
So, Shirts wasn't supposed to meet Seth in winners bracket.
There were 17 winners' and 15 losers' and I don't know how they were placed into the brackets.

Sounds like some things were done foolishly about the tourney. Kuni is right. Zangief is good but he can't win.

Kuni

08-21-2003, 07:57 AM

Zangief is good but he can't win.
No. It's not correct. Zangief can win and I was trying to prove it at EVO. I actually defeat Cole's Dhalsim or Valle's O.Sagat at least one game or more with my Zangief.
You should say "My Zangief can't win" instead. It is because you just don't know how to move Zangief in order to beat taugh opponents/match-ups.

Oops, that's off the topic. The problem was "Why semifinal bracket was screwed up?".

FMJaguar

08-21-2003, 08:19 AM

The Zangief topic was better, lets go on with that

Reza-O

08-21-2003, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by Kuni

No. It's not correct. Zangief can win and I was trying to prove it at EVO. I actually defeat Cole's Dhalsim or Valle's O.Sagat at least one game or more with my Zangief.
You should say "My Zangief can't win" instead. It is because you just don't know how to move Zangief in order to beat taugh opponents/match-ups.

Oops, that's off the topic. The problem was "Why semifinal bracket was screwed up?".

I agree with Kuni. Zangief CAN win tournaments. Especially his crazy Zangief :)

jchensor

08-21-2003, 01:18 PM

God, watching Kuni play Zangief vs. Valle's O.Sagat... I've never been more frightened for Sagat's life than that match. Sagat was in the corner almost 100% of the time, while Zangief just looked so damned scary... and I LIKE Zangief. And believe me, Valle was playing at a really high level, too. But Kuni's 'Gief is a machine! I'm almost inspired to pick up 'Gief again to try to be like Kuni. ^_^

- James

FMJaguar

08-21-2003, 01:59 PM

ok that better be on the dvd then... :)

Mad C.B. Tree

08-22-2003, 01:06 AM

So who beat you Kuni? Who beat your "Machine Gief"?:rolleyes:

Kuni

08-22-2003, 08:09 AM

In my ST semifinals, I first faced Valle and defeated his Ryu and O.Sagat and sent him to losers.
Then I was told to play against Ohnuki, but both of us claimed this shouldn't happen in semifinals if regional seeding is working correctly.
Then my opponent became Cole, where I lost to his Dhalsim by 1-2. (third match was really close tho)
In losers, I was told to play against Valle, again. This is somewhat weird, I felt. This time, I lost to his O.Sagat by 1-2. (it was also very close match)
So, it was Cole and Valle who beat me in semifinal finals.
Though I lost, that doesn't mean Zangief can't win.
I bet their victory from Zangief isn't EZ free win.

James, thank you for your comment. That really encourage me to get more powerful. I also like your Cammy techniques! :)
Until next time, I keep on practicing this game and polish my skillz.

Reza-O

08-22-2003, 09:09 AM

Originally posted by Kuni

In losers, I was told to play against Valle, again. This is somewhat weird, I felt. This time, I lost to his O.Sagat by 1-2. (it was also very close match)

To clear that up, that happens all the time in the bracket styles I have seen in tourneys. First loss goes into left side same vertical height as the winner on the winner's side. Second Bout loser goes to the mirror image position vertically. So if you have 8 vertical levels, loser of the bottom goes all the way to the top. BUT what happens now is that this pattern basically repeats. SO the next loser will be placed in the SAME vertical level. Which means basically if you play someone your first match, and you lose. If you win your next two matches in losers and he wins his next match in winners but loses his second match, you will play each other.

It's something like that. Hope that explains it. :)

moop

08-22-2003, 10:32 AM

kuni's gief sounds pretty scary.

a well-played gief can destroy people. Like that PONY gief in the taikou dvd who obliterated a bunch of dhalsims.

omni

08-22-2003, 11:17 AM

When I went to JPN for SBO, me and and a few other americans played against Kuni's Zangief for many days at More - trust me, the man is a beast. I spend most of the time in the corner not even trying to get out, but just trying to stay alive.

He has one of the better Zangief's I have ever seen, even in Japan.

Derek Daniels
omni@shoryuken.com

Shrek

08-23-2003, 08:58 AM

kuni - tell them about pony :)

For those who haven't seen it, there isn't anything more amusing than watching a Z tear through dhalsims like they were nothing.

also: next time we hang out kuni I want a shot at the Kuni challenge....;)

NKI

08-23-2003, 06:13 PM

Yeah, I know it's totally off-topic, but...

Kuni's Zangief is the fucking truth.
:eek:

I was really impressed with all of your matches. Your matches with Cole were really good, as well as your matches with Valle. You gave them both a good run for their money...

And I also would like to take The Kuni Challenge next time we're both in the same country.

-Nick

arcticninja

08-23-2003, 06:18 PM

damn...

I'll have to keep a closer eye on Kuni next year :D

Mad C.B. Tree

08-26-2003, 03:53 AM

That scary huh? God the grappler skillz! Ok my Zangief cant win,mabe Kuni's didn't win that day but from what it sounds like he should have won but didn't. I understand. Well good job to the American Gods that barley beat "The great Kuni".

Dont give props to a guy that got close unless your gonna do it to all players that get close and lose. Faggit Americans only ride the penis's of Japanese players.

How sad

jchensor

08-26-2003, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by Mad C.B. Tree
That scary huh? God the grappler skillz! Ok my Zangief cant win,mabe Kuni's didn't win that day but from what it sounds like he should have won but didn't. I understand. Well good job to the American Gods that barley beat "The great Kuni".

Dont give props to a guy that got close unless your gonna do it to all players that get close and lose. Faggit Americans only ride the penis's of Japanese players.

How sad

It's called respect. And that's all it is. I've been a Zangief player my whole life, and to see someone, it doesn't matter if he's Japanese or not, do sooo well in matches that I thought were givens for a Zangief loss, how can I not pay my respect to that?

On top of that, Kuni is a class-A person. Friendly to the end, treats you with equal respect. So you've got a player doing better with a character than he has any right to, and he's just a really cool guy to be around.

You want to complain about Americans? How about complaining that it's mostly Americans that make immature and foot-in-your-mouth posts like the one you just wrote?

How sad.

- James

Shirts

08-26-2003, 10:37 AM

Kuni

08-26-2003, 10:56 AM

Yeah, Shirts is right.

Originally posted by Mad C.B. Tree
So who beat you Kuni? Who beat your "Machine Gief"?

Well good job to the American Gods that barley beat "The great Kuni".
I can tell he was just saying such unrespectful teasing comments even without actually watching my matches or seeing me. So annoying.
How sad. :lame:

FMJaguar

08-26-2003, 11:08 AM

Adam*Warlock

08-26-2003, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by Kuni
Yeah, Shirts is right.

I can tell he was just saying such unrespectful teasing comments even without actually watching my matches or seeing me. So annoying.
How sad. :lame:

Please don't think this is typical of American attitudes Kuni. I've never met you but you put lots of effort into the community and your 'gief is now legendary. The majority of us respect and appreciate that quite a bit. Peace.

BloodUrien

08-26-2003, 12:27 PM

I dont know that much about ST but I remember when I use to talk to Shirts on AIM about who beats Sagat. He said that a couple characters can but all I remember is Dhalsim. He said nothing about Zangeif. So if Kuni is beating or nearly beating Sagats with the Russian I'd say thats pretty impressive.

Outro

Alphastorm

08-26-2003, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by FMJaguar

I wonder if this happens on japanese forums too. Would be an intresting topic.

Rarely.

Most americans have no respect for their elders so why the hell would they have respect for their peers? When your parents grow old, you'll send them to a nursing home and you'll visit maybe once before they die. Now that is the fucking truth!

Kuroppi

08-26-2003, 01:56 PM

Kuni is my Zangief sensei! :)

My Zangief is weak but don't hold that against him. ;)

I've watched/played/learned from Kuni all the way back to SFII and have seen him take out some awesome players. Even with that said it was amazing to see him almost take out a top notch Dhalsim and O. Sagat.

Go Kuni! Go Old School!

Philth

08-26-2003, 01:59 PM

Well on the whole Cole issue...

Whatever, I think the previous champion should reserve the right to go through no pool and just fight the winner of the tourny. You the champion.
No need to play with the scrubs.

Reza-O

08-26-2003, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by Philth
Well on the whole Cole issue...

Whatever, I think the previous champion should reserve the right to go through no pool and just fight the winner of the tourny. You the champion.
No need to play with the scrubs.

The previous champion should have no problem making it through the "scrubs" then. So think of it as warm up. ;)

Judgment Day

08-30-2003, 04:55 AM

Originally posted by KaiSing
I was disqualified from my first Super Turbo match because i was in the middle of my Marvel match when they announced it and I apparently didn't hear it. But at least I went to losers. Nonetheless, I guess being a 2 time Super Turbo champ has its benefits.

You should've talked to the person running the ST Bracket; I'm sure they would've done something for you. It happened to me as well, because I had the same pool # for Tekken 4 and 3rd Strike. Tekken 4 started first, and I told Paulee in advance that I may be over at the Tekken area for about 15 minutes. T4 took longer than I thought, and by the time I got there, I already was in the 3rd Strike Losers Bracket :( But after talking to Paulee about the situation, plus explaining to him that I was among the few who probably let him know in advance, he found a spot for me and set me back to the winners. Paulee's cool like that though :cool: